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North Korea and South Korea; Kim Jong-Un and the Chinese; Veteran's Affair Administration; Donald Trump White House; Nobel Peace Prize; Egypt Politics; Sports Scandal in Australia: David Warner Apologizes For 'Stain on Game'. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired March 29, 2018 - 02:00   ET


[02:00:00] ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN Newsroom live from Los Angeles.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Ahead this hour, a push for diplomacy on the Korean peninsula, delegates from Seoul and Pyongyang holding high level talks at the border.

SESAY: Plus, banned from playing Cricket, top Australian players are facing the consequences of a ball tampering scandal.

VAUSE: And science discovers a new human organ. We'll introduce you the interstitium thing.

SESAY: It's new.

VAUSE: There it is.

SESAY: Hello.

VAUSE: It's nice.

SESAY: Welcome all around the world. I'm Isha Sesay.

VAUSE: I am John Vause. I am trying to find my interstitium. And this is Newsroom L.A.

SESAY: High level talks are going on right now between North and South Korea in the demilitarized zone. They're expecting to discuss details of the summit to be held next month between North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un and South Korean President Moon Jae-in.

VAUSE: This comes on the heels of Kim's surprise trip to China, wherein he reportedly said he is committed to denuclearization, but it comes with conditions. And Kim is still on track for a potential meeting with U.S. President Donald Trump, which is tentatively scheduled for May.

SESAY: Well, our Alexandra Field is near the border of North Korea. She joins us now. So Alex, I know the summit has been underway for a little while now, anymore details coming out?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Isha, the plan really was to set a date for the summit that's scheduled to between a South Korean President Moon Jae-in and the North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un. We're now getting word that they have agreed on a date. That date being April 27, but it does seem there is still a lot of work to do in advance of the summit because they have also announced that there will be additional working groups who will meet before that summit happens, presumably to continue to iron out some of the details, some of the logistics of this incredibly significant meeting.

This will be the first summit between the two Koreas in more than 10 years. Don't forget we got to this point rather quickly. These developments on the diplomatic front happened rapidly after months of escalating tension on the peninsula. Now, the two men who have led the delegation through the DMZ say and apparently agreed on this date.

They're the same men who precipitated some of these developments when they met back at the DMZ back in January. After that, we had the announcement the North Korean Olympic delegation would be going to the Olympics in Pyeongchang, South Korea. And then it was from there that we heard that there would be this South Korean and North Korean summit.

And after that, it was the South Koreans who extended the invitation of Kim Jong-Un to President Donald Trump, who accepted this invitation to sit down with the North Korean leader. So these developments have certainly come quickly. And now you have this difficult work of North Koreans and South Koreans trying to sit down together and figure out how to pull this summit off. They have said that the goal of the meeting that's happening today at the DMZ in North Korea, just behind me there, is to set the tone for this summit to make sure that they have provided the structure that's necessary.

President Moon Jae-in of South Korea has said that he hopes that the summit between South Korea and North Korea will be a way of creating the right atmosphere for an even bigger meeting that would take place down the line, that one presumably between North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un and President Donald Trump, Isha.

SESAY: Well, all of that being said, the desire to set the mood music, the scene, and the details. I'm wondering where the comments attributed to Kim Jong-Un by Xinhua News Agency that he is committed to denuclearization but that comes with conditions. I'm wondering how much of that would cast a shadow over the summit and if the next one happens with President Trump.

FIELD: Yeah, I don't think that any North Korea watcher would be shocked to hear Kim Jong-Un saying open to denuclearization but with conditions. We had first heard that he was open to the talks on the premise of denuclearization from South Korean envoys who had gone to North Korea. That seemed like a very optimistic note to strike. That's what precipitated this invitation to President Donald Trump to sit down together.

But certainly, if watch this very closely, if you know the importance of those weapons and that program of the regime. This is not something that they are willing to give up easily or lightly. The question now, what are those conditions? And to what extent will they be asking for major concessions from the United States? Not entirely clear what the United States will bring to this meeting.

At the same time, they had initially said that they wouldn't sit down with North Korea unless there was concrete action taken toward denuclearization. We seem to have seen the White House move off the mark, being more open to these talks, accepting the invitation. But the fundamental question is here is what denuclearization means to the both sides.

When the U.S. talks about it, as they point out, they mean denuclearization in North Korea, they want that regime rid of its weapons. When North Korea talks about denuclearization, they're casting a much more wide net. There are many analysts who suggests that some of the concessions they could go after, would be the withdrawal of the U.S. troops from the peninsula, those 30,000 troops who are stationed in South Korea.

[02:05:00] And an end to the protection guaranteed to South Korea by the U.S. with its nuclear umbrella. So there are certainly a lot of fronts where you could see broad and vast disagreement here, Isha. Just not clear what terms both of these sides would bring to the table at this point. The real question is whether they get to the table.

SESAY: That is the question, Alexandra Field joining us there from us there from close to the DMZ. We shall be watching, appreciate it. Thank you.

VAUSE: Well, U.S. President Donald Trump is weighing on Kim Jong-Un's surprise meeting with China's President tweeting this. Received message from last nigh from Xi Jinping of China that his meeting with Kim Jong-Un went very well, and Kim looks forward to his meeting with me.

David Siders is a Senior Reporter with Politico. And Austin Dove is a Criminal Defense Attorney and former prosecutor. And Austin, we'll get to you because there are a lot of legal issues whirling around in the past 24 hours. But David, let's star with you because it seems that the U.S. is caught off guard by this meeting between the North Korean and Chinese leaders. Beijing informing the White House after it had happened.

And the Washington Post adds this. Amid debates that whether the Chinese move was good or bad for the U.S., administration officials augmently decided to declare it a positive result of its maximum pressure campaign against North Korea. Then first thing Wednesday morning, the Undersecretary of State on Fox, with her old friends at Fox and Friends, listen to this.


HEATHER NAUERT, UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF STATE, SPOKESPERSON: This is further indication that the President's maximum pressure campaign is working. Through a lot of countries around the world coming together and recognizing the destabilizing that North Korea poses, not just on the region, but on the entire world. So we think that without this maximum pressure campaign, this kind of thing wouldn't be happening. (END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And then a few hours after that, came the White House briefing and the same line from Sarah Sanders.


SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We're going to be cautiously optimistic but we feel like things are moving in the right direction. And that the meeting yesterday was a good indication that the maximum pressure campaign has been working.


VAUSE: OK. So here is the question. Yes, it could be part of the maximum pressure campaign. But it is also and probably more likely Kim outflanking Donald Trump, going to Beijing, proving he has other options out there, that the U.S. isn't the only game in town, that it proves that North Korea is not isolated as the United States had hoped. And added into the mix that the New York Times is recording that the North Koreans are building another nuclear reactor.

DAVID SIDERS, POLITICO, SENIOR REPORTER: Kim can't put all of his eggs in this basket with the United States. So he can't come to the meeting and be bare back home. So really this repairing of the relationship with China I think does improve his flank, as you point out.

VAUSE: But, you know -- and sure it may be because of the sanctions. It could be because everything is being tough. But for the administration to go out there and say that is the most likely reason why, I get it. That's the politics of it all. But it just seems incredibly misleading.

SIDERS: It's so interesting to settle on that because the information that even the White House has under that meeting with China is so vague. And the readouts that we saw out of the Chinese readout as opposed to the North Korean readout are totally different. Are we talking nuclear weapons or not, and I think you're right, the politics and the messaging comes ahead of the information.

VAUSE: OK. OK. We also have a situation that the man who is set to become the National Security Adviser number three, John Bolton. He wrote back in 2007 it was his personal mission at the time to basically what was it, what was it, to shatter the nuclear agreement which was in place with the North Koreans. This is what he wrote. The idea that a rogue state could be persuaded to give up nuclear weapons was an illusion.

The DPRK will gladly engage with us, accept our concessions, and then violate its own commitments. Ironically, North Korea's policies have often been more sensible than our own, with the hope of the high- minded seems always to triumph over contrary experience. OK, so you go to the White House with a whole circling -- I just want to know it sounds counterintuitive.

But is this a situation where those most opposed to the diplomacy are the ones who could most likely make it work.

SIDERS: I think this is going to be a massive fight within the White House. And you've heard the more peace minded folks in the White House say -- recognizing John Bolton's previous comments and say I can work with him. He is an American. He's not representing John Bolton. He is representing the President's strategy, which itself has changed dramatically over months.

Look at what he used to be calling Kim. Now we're looking forward to a meeting. So I think you're going to see -- we're not just looking at what's happening with the meeting with North Korea, but this internal struggle in the White House.

VAUSE: OK. Alex, the other big story of the day, the New York Times is reporting that lawyers for the first National Security Adviser Michael Flynn and Paul Manafort, he headed the Trump campaign, had talks with John Dowd, who was until recently Donald Trump's lead attorney on the Russia investigation, apparently about the prospect of Presidential pardons. Here is part of the reporting.

[02:10:00] The discussions came as the special counsel was building cases against both men and they raised questions bout whether the lawyer John Dowd, who resigned last week was offering pardons to influence their decisions about whether to plead guilty and should cooperate in the investigation. Austin, there's been lot of speculation that one of e reasons why Manafort has not done a deal with Bob Mueller is because he either has been promised or is holding out hope for a pardon.

AUSTIN DOVE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think that's absolutely correct. And the layers of complication here are significant. On the one hand, you have got -- so an attorney is advising his client, you know this is Dowd advising his clients about what to do. And in one period of time, he advises Donald Trump. But that spills over to the representation of the other men. So this is an issue -- sort of a lingering question of obstruction of justice.

But then you sort of overlap with -- to what extent a lawyer's job is to sort of advise his client on how to stay out of trouble. So to the extent that well, is it obstruction of justice on the one hand or is it sound legal advice, it kind of scuds against both of those areas.


VAUSE: What's the argument that it's not obstruction of justice?

DOVE: Well, I think the argument is that within the scope -- an attorney is going to have to -- they are making a projection, and they're saying you're not just looking what's the pure legal context here. You're saying what's going to happen to my client eventually. What's the best strategy for them overall? There are sort of non- legal factors that weigh into this. And I think if you are calculating the benefit to your client of saying hey look, I am going to advise you on doing something, knowing the position that you hold and the relationship you have with the President might impact the way my legal advice would play out. We can take the bigger risk in that scenario. Is it sort of

obstruction of justice in the purest sense? Yes, but when you know how the cards are going to play out and you certainly have a stacked deck here, it allows to sort of push the envelope on the legal advice. ,

VAUSE: OK. Almost out of time, but another senior Trump appointee has been canned. This is the Veteran Affairs Secretary David Shulkin. And guess what, this is the guy who the President says will be the next Secretary of the VA. Try and guess who he is talking about here.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has a lot -- a lot of energy, a lot of energy and a lot of stamina. Look at his vision. He is 71 years old and his bilateral uncorrected vision is 20-30. He can drive if he wants to without glasses. He washes his hands frequently. He uses Purell. And as many hands he shakes in a day, he would be a fool not to. It's called genetics. I don't know. Some people have great genes. The President's health is excellent. His overall health is excellent. He has incredible genes, I just assume. I think he will remain fit for duty for the remainder of this term, and even for the remainder of another term if he's elected.


VAUSE: So David, how do you think the good doctor managed to get a job for which he has no experience of actually doing, and he is another outsider? And you know running the VA has been a problem regardless of whether you're a Republican or Democrat. And it's not an easy job. And this guy's going to be in charge.

SIDERS: I think the jury is out. And there's been some mixed reaction in Washington. Clearly, the President was happy with his performance at the press conference. But it has been said, even by some critics of the President, that it doesn't matter how many bureaucracies you've managed, the VA is animal unlike anything else.

And so there is, I think, some desire to give this person a shot largely around where he falls on privatization. This could be a real referendum in his confirmation hearing.

VAUSE: Yeah, he is an outsider I guess. And Donald Trump likes an outsider. Like many of his other appointees that haven't worked out.

SIDERS: Excellent genes.

VAUSE: Over the last 14 months. Little short on time but thank you Austin, and David, appreciate it. Good genes.

SESAY: Good genes.

New details in the poison attack on a former Russian spy and his daughter, why British investigators are taking a closer look at Sergei Skripal's home.

VAUSE: Also, a demand for answers from the grieving families of those who died in a mall fire in Siberia.


[02:15:00] VAUSE: British police say the nerve agent used in the attack on a former Russian double agent was placed at his front door. The concentration of the chemical at the Salisbury home is higher than at any of the locations. And that's where detectives are focusing attention. The U.K. says the poison was developed by Russia, but Moscow defies involvement and has warned there will be retaliation for the mass expulsion of Russian diplomats from more than countries.

Steve Hall was the Head of Russia Operations for the CIA. These days, he is a CNN National Security Analyst. He joins us now from Tucson, Arizona, Steve, thank you for being with us. There is a lot of focus on Novichok, which is you know is a family of nerve agents. It's not just one single toxin. What we publicly know about this comes from this Russian chemist, Vil Mirzayanov, I think I got his name right.

He spoke out back in 1991, but a few years ago there was this report from the Organization for Prohibition for Chemical Weapons. There has been no confirmation of these claims. There was a peer review undertaken in regard to the information on these chemicals in scientific literature. Also, the Royal Society of Chemists -- I am going somewhere with this, said there had been no independent confirmation of the structures or the properties of such compounds has been published.

Does that at least raise some doubt if Novichok actually exists, or if they have ever been produced? What other intelligence is out there which leads Russia to this poison to Skripal.

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: The problem here is that this is precisely what Putin and Russia, who operate in a closed society. They can do whatever they want without telling anybody versus an open society here, where we have these things like peer review and we have public understanding and making public the things that are of interest to the public. That's something that the Russians take great advantage of.

And this is exactly what they're doing in this particular case. I have no doubt that the intelligence services that MI5 almost certainly the British External Intelligence Service has sensitive information that confirms a lot of what they have alluded during their public statements on this.

Of course, the Russians are going to say prove it. And of course, we can't because it's a secret. And that is something that Putin and the Russians will play to a well-meaning western viewer who will say well, isn't it fair that we ask these questions. The Russians don't play by those rules though, and that gives them the advantage in a situation like this.

VAUSE: OK. Just two weeks ago, the British Prime Minister Theresa May was in Parliament. She was laying out the case against Moscow. This is part of what she said.


THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It is now clear that Mr. Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with a military grade nerve agent, of a type developed by Russia. This is part of a group of nerve agents known as Novichok. Based on the positive identification of this chemical agent by world leading experts of the defense, science, and technology laboratory at Porton Down, are knowledge that Russia has previously produced this agent and would still be capable of doing so.


VAUSE: That one line, though, a military grade nerve of a type developed by Russia. Would the U.K. have the ability to determine not only what the nerve agent is, but also the specific way in was made, a process which would be unique to Russia.

HALL: Sure. That's what intelligence services do. They try to steal secrets from other countries, specifically military and technological secrets of weapons of mass destruction, whether it's nuclear or whether they're chemical and biological. So I have little doubt that the Prime Minister wouldn't have made such a comment. Because of course, again, in a western society, intelligence services and the political system are subject to checks and balances and oversights. They can't just make this stuff up. You can't just lie about it without having some intelligence behind it. You can in Russia but you can't do it in the west.

VAUSE: Novichok has never been declared, never classified by the Chemical Weapons Convention, which means it's not known if other countries may have produced them. Does that again, raise the possibility of a third party here looking to cause trouble for Moscow? Maybe they carried out that attack to cause problems for Vladimir Putin. I am just putting possibilities out there.

[02:20:00] HALL: Sure. Yeah, so it's a valid question. So what you need to do I think is just sit back and say, OK. One scenario is that some third country, I don't know, somebody who is capable of coming up with a nerve agent like this, for some reason decided to kill a Russian in the U.K., or you can say we have a former Russian intelligence office who spied against Vladimir Putin and the Russians, living in the U.K. who ends up dead like several others recently. So then you just have to ask yourself, which is more likely? In my book, it's the Russians that are much more likely.

VAUSE: Explain to me though, something which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Clearly, the Russians would know that using Novichok in this attempted assassination would be like leaving a photo behind of a bare chest of Vladimir Putin at the scene, autographed saying from Russia with love. Surely, there are other options, right?

HALL: Yeah, I am going to try to unsee that visual that you just provided. But, I mean sure, but think of it this way. Mr. Litvinenko was killed with polonium, which was traceable back to Russia. Look, what Vladimir Putin is doing here, he's doing a couple of things, but one very important thing that he's doing -- and again, remember, he's a former KGB officer himself, so I think he takes these things personally, is he saying to potential, former, future Russian spies, future members of the FSB and the other Russian intelligence services who may be considering cooperating with a western intelligence service, i.e. spying for them, and saying look, if you do such a thing, it doesn't whether you go to the west.

It doesn't matter whether you go to London or any place else. We will find you and we will kill you and your family members, and we'll do it in a particularly horrible and painful fashion. That's a powerful detriment, or has a detrimental effect to anybody planning to do that type of thing. So that's an important part of Vladimir Putin's message.

VAUSE: Yeah. It seems very unlikely that Skripal and his daughter will actually make a recovery after this poisoning. If they do, it'll be close to a miracle. Steve, we are out of time but thanks so much. Good to have you with us.

HALL: Sure, my pleasure.

SESAY: Well, Nobel Peace Prize winner, Malala Yousafzai is back in her homeland of Pakistan for the first time since Taliban militants shot her.

VAUSE: She is 20 years old. She is a human rights activist, also a student at Oxford University in England. Malala is expected to meet with the Prime Minister at some point but details of the schedule are not being released.

SESAY: Well, you may remember a gunman shot Malala in the head in 2012 because she was campaigning for girls' education. She was flown to a hospital in Britain for treatment. She immediately told an interviewer she missed the rivers and mountains of her home in Pakistan's Valley.

VAUSE: She is.

SESAY: Special.

VAUSE: Yeah, it's pretty amazing. OK, the Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi appears headed for a landslide victory in the country's election, but early reports indicate he may not have got that high voter turnout that he was hoping for.

SESAY: Three days of voting ending Wednesday but it wasn't really much of a race with only one challenger on the ballot. The head of the National Election Commission reportedly told Egyptians "Declare to the world that Egypt always makes history, for you are the pharaoh's, the makers of civilization that amazed the world."

VAUSE: What does that mean?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did I vote for Sisi? Because he is doing something, I think the situation of our country is getting better. Many of us are not educated but el-Sisi, god bless him, will make the situation better for the next four years, god willing.


VAUSE: Well, some voters told the Reuters News Agency they were offered money, food, or services to cast their ballots. Egyptians who did not vote and did not have an excuse could be fined about $28 dollars. Australia fines people for not voting as well.

SESAY: I didn't know that.

VAUSE: I didn't know Egypt did it as well. You learn when you watch CNN.

SESAY: People in Russia are burying their loved ones after the devastating shopping mall fire in Siberia. It killed at least 64 people, most of them children who just wanted to have a good time.

VAUSE: Yeah, this is such a sad story. For many grieving families, anguish is now made to anger as they demand answers, details now from Phil Black.


PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The unbearable grief of burying both your children. Sergei and his knife Natalia kiss, hold, and cry over the coffins of their son and daughter, 10-year-old Maria and 8-year- old Konstantin. Sergei's mother, the children's grandmother is buried with them. All three died together as the fire consumed a shopping center at a Siberian city of Kemerovo. That haunting cry is only one small example of the pain tearing at the city and sending waves of sadness and anger across Russia.

The top left corner of this security video shows the fire as it begins to take hold in the children's play hall. Flames and smoke spread through the center. Three movie cinemas filled with children and their families collapse. Some people jumped for lives. Shock quickly became anger. In front of the local administration building, people scream for justice. This man repeated his last phone call with his daughter as she was trapped inside.

[02:25:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said dad, I love you. I am suffocating. I am losing consciousness. Most local officials stayed inside, protected by lines of riot police, but Vice Governor Sergei Tsivilev thought it was a good idea to speak to the crowd and accuse one loud man of using the tragedy to promote himself. The man's response, my whole family is dead, my sister, wife and three kids, seven, five and two years old. .

Russian President Vladimir Putin isn't used to being spoken to like this. It was the tense moment when a small group of angry people in Kemerovo were allowed to meet him. They demanded answers, assurances, transparency. He promised a thorough investigation and accountability. Investigators trying to work out how and why have already begun arresting people, like this woman, the shopping mall's director pleading her innocence from cage in a courtroom. But for many in this country, responsibility rests much higher.

Thousands of people in Moscow joined a quiet vigil for the fires' victims, but they became angrier. Chanting Putin must resign. And corruption kills. Many people here blame what they consider a broken system and the man who has presided over it for 18 years, Phil Black, CNN Moscow.


VAUSE: OK, we're expecting to hear soon from the disgraced former captain of Australia's cricket team. All three cheaters will soon face the anger of a disgusted nation when they arrive home from South Africa.

SESAY: Plus, charges have been announced in the death of Kansas 10- ye-old riding the world's tallest water slide. What his family is saying about the case next.


VAUSE: You're watching CNN Newsroom live from Los Angeles. I am John Vause.

SESAY: And Isha Sesay, the headlines this hour.

VAUSE: South Korea says President Moon Jae-in will meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un in a summit on April 27th. The date was set during high level talks between the two sides which have been taking place at the DMZ. There is another round of talks scheduled for next week.

SESAY: British police now say a former Russian double agent and his daughter were poisoned by a nerve agent at his front door. They say they found a higher concentration of the substance at the Salisbury home than anywhere else and have focused their investigation on that location.

VAUSE: Cricket Australia has banned three players for their role in a cheating scandal in South Africa: Former Team Captain Steve Smith is expected home in Sydney shortly along with the Vice Captain, David Warnerhas been banned for 12 months.


SESAY: Field and Cameron Bancroft received a nine-month ban.

VAUSE: Andrew Menczel is the host of Cricket Unfiltered Podcast. He joins us now on the line from Sydney. Sir, oh, on Skype from Sydney. Good to see you, Andrew. OK.


VAUSE: The players, the three cheaters got a pretty rowdy and nasty sendoff as they left Johannesburg. Will the welcome home to Australia be much better? MENCZEL: I think it will be better. I think there's some members of

the Australian community just starting to have sympathy especially for Steve Smith and Cameron Bancroft. They're quite young men and had a terrible day. They've made a shocking mistake. But I don't think we'll see the same that we saw in Johannesburg that Steve Smith was almost treated like a criminal when he left the airport there.

VAUSE: You know, and then the length of the ban, you know, for Smith and Warner has been criticized as being extreme. And as a matter of fact that, you know, will they be able to make a comeback to top level cricket after such a lengthy ban? I guess the other question is, will they be rehabilitated in that time? Will they be able to -- will they be forgiven and will they, you know, be selected by, you know, Cricket Australia to take that top spot if they are accepted to the task?

MENCZEL: I think all three of them are a different the case. Steve Smith being such a good player and still relatively young, 28. He has a lot of time to redeem himself. Cameron Bancroft again is only 25 and he will be back playing right at the end of this year. So he has a long time to rebuild his career. And I think he will be able to -- both those players will be able to. David Warner though, he seems to have been the ring leader behind the plot to tamper with the ball. He's ostracized teammates apparently, so he's going to have a harder time coming back into the team.

VAUSE: You know, the whole issue of ball tampering, these happens all the time, you know, it's been going on since pretty much since cricket has been around. So is the bigger crime here as far as the Australian public is concerned, the fact that they actually cheated or the fact they got caught cheating?

MENCZEL: I think the bigger crime is that they cheated and I think Australians shouldn't nurture their -- set their own standards of behavior with cricket. If the International Cricket Council wants to be soft on people that tamper with the ball, I think that's up -- Australia doesn't have to go along with that. They can set an example for the world cricket community and cricket Australia have done this by banning both the players for 12 months. That's very heavy handed and it's unprecedented for any player in a similar situation especially other international captains. So I think Australia has to set the standard. And hopefully now the international cricket community will follow.

VAUSE: You know, just wondering with such harsh penalties being handed down by Cricket Australia. Obviously, they're sending a message that, you know, of complete disapproval. Are they also sending a message to the sponsors who are dropping like flies and pulling millions, and millions, and millions of dollars away?

MENCZEL: Well, I guess they are sending a message to the sponsors and the brand of the Australian Cricket tend that they want to promote. I mean as they're saying today, it's too late. There's so much damages being done. Sponsors from the players and the team are planning to drop off. So Australia has got a lot -- Australian Cricket has a lot of work to do now to rebuild after this crisis. VAUSE: Yes. If -- and just, you see, that's the final point. A good point to finish up here, Andrew because, you know, if this had -- incident just happened in itself and there hadn't been this history with the Australian team because right now around the world there are a lot of countries who are having a great deal of (INAUDIBLE) right now. There's a, you know, they're enjoying this as some kind of comic payback for the behavior of the Australian Cricket Team over the years. If they hadn't been that history with the Aussie team, would Cricket Australia and the public be a little bit more forgiving at this point?

MENCZEL: Look, that's a tough question because, you know, you take into account that Australia was so vocal when (INAUDIBLE) South African captain was caught ball tampering that really Australia had to come down hard when, you know, players were found to have done. And in circumstances that have arisen where they lied and they continued to lie and, you know, they said it was tape originally. But then it's found to be sand paper. You know, they really had to come down hard regardless of prior indiscretions.

VAUSE: (INAUDIBLE) finally here. I mean I remember back it was in 1981 Greg Chappell, Trevor Chappell, the underarm ball, you know, that was sort of throw of the moment awful moment of bad sportsmanship. I want to make a point. This was premeditated.

MENCZEL: Yes. Look, I think that's -- you've got -- you take that into account that David Warner organized this with Cameron Bancroft, but I guess from Steve Smith's point of view it comes with the end of a long season. He's probably -- the South African tour has been rife with controversy even before this incident. So he was probably vulnerable and crumbled under the immense pressure.

[02:35:08] VAUSE: Yes, to say the least. Andrew, thank you so much for being with us. We're of course waiting for, you know, these guys to arrive back in Australia where they will face the music and it's not going to be pleasant. Andrew, thanks for being with us.

MENCZEL: Yes. No problem. Thank you.

SESAY: Quick break now. In the U.S., there are three waterpark executives indicted on charges related to the death of a 10-year-old boy on a water slide in 2016.

VAUSE: Two of the executives involved in the design of the world's tallest water slide faces second degree murder charges in the death of Caleb Schwab along with a screw of other charges. We have details from CNN's Scott McLean.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This water slide is called Verruckt. In German, it means insane and it is absolutely massive, 168 feet taller, 51 meters making it higher than Niagara Falls and the Statue of Liberty. It was undoubtedly terrifying to ride, but was it safe? This latest indictment against the executives at Waterpark Schlitterbahn accuses the designers of the slide of not only failing to follow safety standards but also of rushing its design, and construction, and testing in order to impress the producers of a TV show focusing on extreme waterparks. According to the indictment, these designers weren't actually engineers. The indictment reads, "Neither of the two men possessed any kind of technical or engineering credential relevant to amusement ride design or safety." 13 people had suffered injuries on this water slide before Caleb Schwab's death ranging from broken toes to a concussion. The indictment claims the designers of the slide actually tested it overnight in order to avoid scrutiny after there were reports that some of the rafts were going airborne.

Schwab's death according to the indictment at first seemed like an unforeseeable incident until, "Whistleblowers from within Schlitterbahn's own ranks came forward and revealed that Schlitterbahn officials had covered up similar incidents in the past." Now, this indictment also claims that reports relating to injuries were either destroyed or withheld and that the age restriction on the ride 14 was scrapped just before the grand opening. That restriction would have meant Schwab was too young to ride. Schlitterbahn is insisting that all three of its executives are innocent releasing a statement that reads in part, this indictment is brought with references to the outtakes of a dramatic scripted television show and filled with information that we fully dispute. Now, Schlitterbahn has already settled out of civil court with the Schwab family for some $20 million according to our local affiliate. The Schwab family says the issues at Schlitterbahn go well beyond just their son's death. Scott McLean, CNN Denver.

VAUSE: Boy, OK. Police in California are looking for three children. They have been missing after a car accident which killed members of their family. The bodies of Jennifer and Sarah Hart and three of their children were found after their SUV plunged off a coastal highway landed in the Pacific Ocean.

SESAY: Investigators say the vehicle was in the water several hours before it was discovered. 15-year-old Devonte is among the missing children. You may remember this shot. This little boy. He made national headlines in 2014 for this image. This photo of him hugging a police officer during a protest over the deadly police shooting in Ferguson, Missouri. He is amongst the three kids that are still missing. Turn to Venezuela now, and the head prosecutor says at least 68 people were killed in a fire at a police detention center in the City of Valencia.

VAUSE: There are media reports that arrived and an attempt of a jail break broke out. Police clashed with relatives who gathering outside the holding cells. They are demanding information about their love ones.

SESAY: The country has been gripped by chaos with soaring unemployment and chronic shortage of foods. Families have been getting out trying to find a better life in neighboring Columbia and save the children has come out with a warning. Joining us now from Bogota is Maria Paula Martinez. Maria is executive director of Save the Children Columbia. Maria, thank you so much for joining us. We know that children are fleeing with their families and in some cases on their own. They're heading to Colombia in an attempt to escape the hardships in their native Venezuela. Just how bad are things for them there in Colombia?

MARIA PAULA MARTINEZ, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF SAVE THE CHILDREN COLUMBIA: I know. We are seeing a humanitarian crisis in Columbia. We are seeing that at least 300,000 children are here in Columbia, migrants from Venezuela. They don't have access to any basic rights. They are -- they're at risk to be also recruited by illegal army actors who just has presence in all their departments from Colombia bordering with Venezuela. And we see sexual exploitation and abuse. We're seeing (INAUDIBLE) children. And we're seeing a big crisis of malnutrition of those children.

[02:40:08] SESAY: It is very bleak indeed the picture you paint. Tell me how they're coping, how they surely coping physically and mentally being in these conditions.

MARTINEZ: Where we are receiving children trying -- when we ask the children, why you are alone, we don't have family and why you are here in Columbia, so they answer because I -- and I'm here because I am looking for my father who left Venezuela a few years ago looking for a better future. So right now, we are seeing those children's alone. We are seeing those children's without any dream, any hope of future and looking for a new opportunities in Columbia starting be eating and having (INAUDIBLE) and education service.

SESAY: And Maria, how much is the children able to do for these kids? Talk to me about the work you're doing right now and how widespread is it in Columbia.

MARTINEZ: Well, we are here at Save the Children in Columbia since 1991. We have been responding to many emergencies and for us (INAUDIBLE) emergency. So we bring -- like we respond immediately in two main sectors protection and medication emergency. And we bringing in those three departments friendly faces is what we call like the perfect space to work with children. They are caregivers. They're families. They're tutors. They're the community leaders in order to protect them. In those emergency in those places as we mentioned before, children's are like facing many risk and we -- we want to keep them in a safe space to bring them their rights are facing many risk and we want to keep them in a safer space to bring them their right, and the basic services we can provide tm. So Save the Children is providing med kit, hygiene kits, some nutrition and food items. We are providing shelters and the most important is psychosocial emotional support for them, their families, and their community.

SESAY: And lastly, Maria, before I let you go, what more could the Colombian government be doing for these children?

MARTINEZ: Well, first of all, is to really like our current situation and the crisis. Us for many years, we are dealing with like our current institution in Columbia and related to children is to deal with the big things like reparation and compensation, and we are seeking displaced communities. So to see that in those neighborhoods like former settlements where those children coming from Venezuela are leaving right now. They are sharing the space with displaced communities in Columbia and those neighborhoods are unsafe for children as they are controlled by the illegal army (INAUDIBLE) and they're brought from Venezuela many risk and many prostitutions and right now they are living in a -- on safe conditions. So what because in government and do is to seek them and to be more proactive trying to respond to the crisis without like taking them to a (INAUDIBLE) if they have like a passport or not. They are illegal or not. Only providing the best they can to link the (INAUDIBLE) with the local authorities in Colombia can do to provide them with basic rights.

SESAY: Well, we were hoping that they get the support that they need and the donations come into help Venezuela and Colombia for that matter. Maria Paula Martinez, we appreciate it. Thank you so much for painting the picture for what these kids are going through. We appreciate it.

MARTINEZ: You are welcome.

VAUSE: OK. We are still to come here. We're changing pace. The part of the body you probably didn't even know that you had. It might just be the body's biggest organ of all.


[02:46:28] SESAY: Well, a 12 year old American boy is giving a thanks after his wish to get a kiss from Pope Francis, finally came true.

VAUSE: Peter Lombardi, has (INAUDIBLE) planned to see the pope in Philadelphia, back in 2015 but Peter was diagnosed with cancer, and he was in hospital starting chemotherapy.

SESAY: But three years later, Peter's cancer is in remission. The family traveled to Rome on Palm Sunday, where Peter got not just a kiss from the Pope, he got to sit on the popemobile.

VAUSE: Or you're blessing as well, always a good thing from the pope.

SESAY: Always a good thing.

VAUSE: OK, so, you'd think that scientists by this point.

SESAY: That by this point.

VAUSE: Well, would know like all of everything. All the bits, apparently, they don't -- they discovered a new bit of the anatomy possibly the largest bit we have.

SESAY: The discovery is changing the way scientists looking at bodies. CNN's Lynda Kinkade, explains why it's been hidden for so long. We do this so long.

VAUSE: Well, it changed the way we look at -- sorry.

LYNDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Everywhere in your body right now from under your skin to between your stomach and lungs lies what could be the largest organ no one knew existed.



KINKADE: In a study published in the journal of scientific reports, researchers found a previously unrecognized feature of human anatomy. Inside the part of the body called interstitium.

THEISE: Whenever we look in any organ, there are always layers of tissue that look like dense connective tissue, just layers of collagen stacked on each other. And when they took this microscope and looked inside the bile duct, they didn't see that structure.

KINKADE: A professor of Pathology at New York University, Dr. Neil Theise, co-authored the study using a powerful new microscope laser technology. The inner group discovered that within an interstitium tissue, lies a previously unseen web of enter connected pockets that move fluid around the body. A finding with big implications for one of the deadliest diseases about time.

THEISE: Now, we know, how cancer gets out of the site is originates and gets to the lymph nodes we haven't been able to study. Now we know the path is. Can we go in there and identify the mechanisms that allow the cells to traffic? And then, could we think about ways to interfere with them so that we could maybe slow down the metastasis or prevent metastasis.

KINKADE: This and his researchers claim that their findings constitute interstitium as the largest organ in the human body. If that's true, how did it go undetected for so long? The researchers say previously unseen cavities have been hiding there inside the body's connective tissue, surrounded by collagen and with fluid.


KINKADE: No one had seen the spaces before the cause of the way, the human tissue is usually studied. Imagine this CNN beach ball is part of the interstitium. When scientists took pieces of tissue from the body, this fluid filled sacks would drain. Kind of like this, collapsing down becoming impossible to detect. The researchers think these could be acting as shock absorbers. The more research is needed to better understand the true function of interstitium and how it impacts other parts of the body. And whether or not, we can really call it an organ. Lynda Kinkade, CNN.

VAUSE: OK. So, what is already considered the largest organ of the body before this discovery?

SESAY: Skin?

VAUSE: Yes, we're done. Yes.

[02:50:02] SESAY: I think I stole your thunder in that.

VAUSE: (INAUDIBLE) then, it was like a --

SESAY: Yes, I know. They dominate both of our lives and the stock markets now. The world must part of tech companies are facing pressure like this never seen before. VAUSE: They both is fear of government regulation, safety concerns or just cash flow. We're watching a sustain sell-off in one of Wall Street's most important sectors. This Tesla seeking once again over its business model Amazon, apparently in Trump crosshairs and of course, Facebook, rolling out your privacy settings to satisfying its critics. He's household names are not taking a beating.

SESAY: Well, Facebook, they're now taking the first steps in safeguarding your information. There's been a global backlash against the side of company, obtain access of data from 50 million Facebook users without their knowledge using it to target voters during the U.S. election.

VAUSE: CNN's Samuel Burke, has details over new privacy features and when they might be available.

SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS AND TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Facebook says it's finally going to make it easier for you to change your privacy settings on the platform. The social network has even acknowledging that it's done a poor job with this. Admitting that having the privacy and security settings scattered across 2020 different pages isn't user-friendly.

For ages, I flagged that often times the tools Facebook offers as fixes are very hard to find. The tool to see if you've been targeted by Russian propagandas, for instance, is an example of this problem. It's only available on desktop, not mobile even though Facebook brags to its investors about being a company with the majority of its users on mobile. But this time around, Facebook says they will make changes to the privacy settings clearer on the mobile app.

So, let's just take a look at the before and after on the left are the settings how they look right now. And on the right is what looks to be a somewhat more simple menu of what they should look like. But let's be cautious here because while Facebook's already talking about the changes, they haven't actually made them yet. You cannot access this on your mobile app just yet. And it may not be available for a few more weeks. Hopefully, it will be available before Mark Zuckerberg, testifies before Congress so legislatures can see what types of changes if any Facebook has made as they grill its top executive.

SESAY: All right. And thanks to Samuel Burke. Hello.

VAUSE: Hello. I'm back now. That was Sam, right? OK. For some people, it's actually a site change as though I just too little too late the delete. Facebook movement is affecting something names. Cheer (INAUDIBLE), and now, Playboy.

SESAY: (INAUDIBLE), she happened a son tweeted Tuesday, saying the side is sexually repressive. In a sighting that sense of how Facebook handles the data of 25 million Playboy fans.

VAUSE: Playboy has how many fans?

SESAY: Time for short break. I mean, right now, we have to take knowledge of quiz for you, what is wrong with this picture? Take a look -- take a look, we'll give you an earful when we come back.

VAUSE: From the obvious.


SESAY: Well a tourist on a charter flight retreated to a beautiful sight. You're looking at Aurora Australis.

VAUSE: Can I bite?

SESAY: Also known as the Southern Light.

VAUSE: The (INAUDIBLE) shot on a six-hour flight from Christ Church New Zealand to the Atlantic circle and then, back again, beautiful. Ok, it can be very hard to keep up with so much change. A beautiful -- so a change out there. Because in ear one we wear headphones and then, they became earbuds. I'm also OK with that. I deserve more, and now they're air pods.

[02:55:00] SESAY: If you don't know what they are, you probably turn out, wear them? Just often that once known as America's mere, here's Jeanne Moos.

JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Should have worry as the President Trumps and former adviser on cybersecurity was snubbed wearing his AirPods upside down. And Trump, the Republican strategist posing alongside, Rudy Giuliani have told him.


JIM CARREY, ACTOR, COMEDIAN: Do I have something in my teeth?

MOOS: With AirPods in his ears, the photo went viral. Does Giuliani, actually, have his AirPods pointing up? Then, are for getting the signal from Moscow. This is the correct way to wear AirPods. But at least, the former New York mayor didn't confuse an AirPod for a blow dryer. The red panda obviously, missed Apple's launch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The future of wireless audio.

MOSS: Meets the present of a 73-year-old politician, Donald Trump Jr. was photoshopped, perch someone of the pods. The marker way was merciless, it's a story shelve all the way through.

MOOS: There were jokes about how maybe forgot to take a cue-tips, or maybe was saving cigarettes for later. But Giuliani wasn't blowing smoke. He told the New York Post, he had no idea he was wearing the AirPods wrong. "Sometimes I wear them with the thing pointing up, sometimes I wear them with the thing pointed down. Everyday items can challenge politicians from Mitt Romney, and in himself.


MOOS: To Hillary, swiping her metro card five times, only to have SNL reenact this (INAUDIBLE).

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER FIRST LADY OF UNITED STATES: Is this also going to old fashion things? I'll take it care.

MOOS: And remember when George W. Bush, found himself practically shrink-wrapped in a poncho.


BUSH: Yes. I think -- it was like --

DEGENERES: First time putting a poncho.

MOSS: Ellen, got him a new one with a presidential seal.

DEGENERES: This ends up.

MOOS: And for AirPods, this end up, no wonder Rudy wore them wrong, he's up this down.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR, NEW YORK CITY: From the top to the bottom --

MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

SESAY: She's a brave woman.

VAUSE: I think she's really right, that's why.

SESAY: You've been watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm Isha Sesay. Thank you for staying with us.

VAUSE: I'm with her, I'm John. Follow us on Twitter, @CNNNEWSROOMLA. Highlights and clips from the show will be there. But up next, will be Rosemary Church


ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Diplomacy in the Koreas, North, and South get together of a high-level talks and set the date for a meeting between their leaders.