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Trump to Announce if U.S. Stays in Iran Nuclear Deal; Giuliani: Donald Trump Legal Team to Decide Soon on Mueller Interview; NY Attorney General Resigns Over Abuse Allegations. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired May 8, 2018 - 06:00   ET



RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: What do you think is going to happen to that agreement?

[05:59:15] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be a fundamental mistake, because the Iran nuclear agreement has achieved what it was meant to achieve.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plan B does not seem to be particularly well- developed.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Rudy Giuliani and the president are kind of freelancing here.

SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He certainly feels that he's an added member to his outside special counsel.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: At the end of the day, the president is going to have to answer questions under oath.

ERIC SCHNEIDERMAN, OUTGOING NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: We will never back down from supporting a woman's right to control her own body.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bottom line, four women accusing this man of physical abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he did the right thing by resigning.


ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY, with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is your NEW DAY. It is Tuesday, May 8, 6 a.m. here in New York. And here's our starting line. In just a few hours, President Trump is expected to announce the most consequential national security decision of his entire presidency. The president widely expected to end a waiver of sanctions against Iran, ignoring pleas from U.S. allies. And that move, in effect, would be the United States leaving the historic nuclear deal.

And also, the question of whether the president will comply with any requests by the special counsel to come in for an interview, that may be coming to a head soon.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So today is also primary day in four states, with all eyes on West Virginia. The president and the Republican Party trying to keep former coal executive and ex-convict, Don Blankenship, from winning the state's Senate primary. White House sources tell CNN the administration fears Blankenship could be like Roy Moore on steroids.

And a stunning fall from grace for a rising Democratic star. New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, a champion of the #MeToo movement and a critic of President Trump, resigning abruptly a few hours ago after disturbing allegations of abuse by several women.

So let's begin our coverage with CNN's Abby Phillip. She is live at the White House. What's the latest there, Abby?


The fate of the Iran nuclear deal is hanging in the balance today. President Trump saying at 2 p.m. today he's going to announce his decision, but all signs point to President Trump choosing not to continue to waive sanctions on Iran, effectively ignoring the pleas by U.S. allies that the United States should continue to remain in the deal.


PHILLIP (voice-over): President Trump expected to effectively walk away from the Iran nuclear deal this afternoon after criticizing the pact for years.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a bad structure. It's a bad structure. It's falling down. Should have never, ever been made.

PHILLIP: The decision follows an orchestrated lobbying campaign by some of America's closest European allies, who have encouraged Mr. Trump to remain in the deal.

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: We think that what you can do is be tougher on Iran, address the concerns of the president and not throw the baby out with the bath water. Plan B does not seem to me to be particularly well-developed at this stage.

PHILLIP: The International Atomic Energy Energy has repeatedly found that the Iran is complying with the terms of Obama-era pact. And a new CNN poll shows that nearly two thirds of the Americans think the U.S. should not withdraw. Still, the president's supporters argue that leaving the deal is necessary to confront Iran's hostile behavior in the Middle East.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: The whole premise that this deal somehow guarantees a safer, more moderate Iran is wrong. If you got rid of it, the first thing that would happen is you would crash Iran's money machine, in which it's pursuing its dreams of a conquesting empire.

PHILLIP: One European diplomat tells CNN that the Trump administration appears intent on renegotiating a second deal while working on agreements to address Tehran's missile program and Iran's support of terror groups, but Iran's foreign minister rejecting this proposal.

MOHAMMAD JAVAD ZARIF, IRAN'S FOREIGN MINISTER: We will neither outsource our security. Nor will we renegotiate or add on to a deal we have already implemented in good faith.

PHILLIP: The Iran deal front and center at the White House as deliberations over a potential interview between the president and special counsel continue behind the scenes.

Sources tell CNN that several White House officials are not happy with Rudy Giuliani's ongoing media blitz. Comparing his performance to that of former communications director, Anthony Scaramucci.

For now, officials say that Giuliani still has the president's blessing, but multiple outlets now reporting that Mr. Trump's frustration is growing. Giuliani rejecting the characterization, telling Politico, "If I'm not up to it, I don't know who is."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the president pleased with the appearances of Rudy Giuliani over the last few days?

SANDERS: I didn't speak with him specifically about his feelings about it, but certainly feels that he's an added member -- added value member to his outside special counsel.

PHILLIP : Giuliani telling "The Wall Street Journal" that the president's lawyers have set a May 17 deadline to decide about a potential interview, but sources tell CNN there is no firm deadline, another sign of a fissure within the president's legal team.

"The Journal" reporting that during an informal four-hour practice session, Mr. Trump's lawyers were only able to walk him through two questions, due to the frequent interruptions and the president's talkative nature.

And the nomination battles continue today for the president's nominees. Today his CIA director nominee, Gina Haspel, is heading back to Capitol Hill for some more meetings. The White House has really tried to shore up some support for her as lawmakers have voiced some concerns over her past role in the U.S.'s controversial torture and enhanced interrogation programs, Alisyn and Chris.

[06:05:03] CUOMO: All right, a lot going on. Abby, thank you very much.

Let's discuss the impact. CNN legal analyst Michael Zeldin and CNN political analyst John Avlon.

John, when you look at the political optics, our main indicator of whether or not the president is happy is absent right now, which is nothing on Twitter about how he feels --


CUOMO: There is the typical rumblings inside the White House of animosity towards the new face. Now really new, but he kind of is. How do you think this is playing?

AVLON: Look, yesterday at the briefing, Sarah Sanders seemed to express reluctant but fairly full-throated support of Rudy in the context of their relationship. Later in the day, the leaks started coming out, saying Trump had soured on Rudy.

This is always a barometer of where Donald Trump's emotions are at any given moment, in addition to back biting within the executive. Rudy has been attack dog and a lightning rod for this legal team. He is playing offense, but he's also distracting a lot of fire from Trump.

The problem is he may be causing more problems than he solves every time he goes on air. And at some point, Trump doesn't like people who get more attention, even if they're doing him a favor. And -- and if you're causing legal problems, Emmet Flood comes in, the new legal counsel says this isn't working, well, that won't work.

CAMEROTA: So Michael, according to "The Wall Street Journal," Rudy Giuliani has told them that they're giving the team until May 17, next week, to decide if the president will testify with Robert Mueller. That's a symbolic date, because that's the date that the Mueller investigation began, so they would be able to come out and say, "Look, it's been a year." They have got nothing.

You know, you already hear this. "They have nothing." They never mention that the investigation is not concluded. So of course, they haven't announced their findings. You hear them say nothing in a year. So do you see any path, any chance that on May 17, they will announce that, yes, President Trump will testify?

MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think so. I think that they are moving toward a decision as to whether the president will testify. I think that, again, Rudy Giuliani has set this May 17 date as his date without, you know, fully vetting it with the entire legal team.

It's hard to imagine that Emmet Flood and the Raskins, who are so new and don't even have security clearances, can make determinations as to what's in the president's best legal interests.

But I think there is an effort there to make a decision, join the issue about whether he's going to voluntarily testify or force a grand jury subpoena. I just don't know that it will be on May 17 itself, as much as that is, you know, sort of a guide post of their decision to get this thing resolved one way or the other, sooner than later.

CUOMO: Quick legal point, Michael Zeldin, couldn't they say today the president will wind up testifying in one way or another, because legally how does he not testify in some form or fashion if the special counsel insists on it? ZELDIN: I think they have a hard time holding back any testimony that

predates the president's inauguration. There's no executive privilege as to that. He was then private citizen Donald Trump. That implicates most of the Russia, you know collusion inquiries. I think that's a hard issue for them to win.

As to post-inauguration, where it's much more focused on the obstruction of justice, I think they have an easier case to make there, if Mueller can't establish that there is an underlying crime that requires his testimony, and they can't get it from any other source. So I think we'll see it split out in some way. I think that's part of the deliberations that has to be ongoing within the legal team.

AVLON: And do they want to try to delay as long as possible? Do they want to try to throw up roadblocks and try to run out the clock, not that they can do it indefinitely but with something like the midterms?

CAMEROTA: Here's what "The Wall Street Journal" is reporting in terms of how it's going to prepare the president for this possible interview. "The Wall Street Journal" also reports that "In an informal four-hour practice session, Mr. Trump's lawyers were only able to walk him through two questions, given the frequent interruptions on national security matters, along with Mr. Trump's loquaciousness, one person familiar with the matter said."

Interesting to know who might have sent the "Wall Street Journal" this little bit of color, John, because in a four-hour practice session, we'd like to know when that was and how much tweeting was happening during that four hours.

AVLON: That's a lot of executive time, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Only two questions were they able to get through. In other words, look, the way you interpret this is there's so much national security stuff happening the president can't possibly be practicing and prepared for this kind of sit-down.

AVLON: Right. And on the one case, obviously, the president has pressing responsibilities in national security, and it's tough to make that kind of time. On the other hand, presidents have done it in the past.

That particular tidbit, though, is pretty delicious. It really seems like something -- an outtake from within the loop. I mean, there's the absurdity and, frankly, believability of high office. Two questions in four hours?

CUOMO: On the issue of credibility, you think that Donald Trump spent four hours going over something that he doesn't -- he's not sure he wants to do.

[06:10:07] AVLON: With regular breaks -- with regular breaks for, presumably, tweeting as well as national security. Here's the point. First of all, he is totally loquacious. He is not focused. Could two questions that are kind of contentious derail him for large periods of time? Sure.

CUOMO: But here's the other thing, Michael. And look, you've had so much more experience with this. When you have a client, they can say he wants to testify all he wants, because that's what he says to the press. Clearly, he doesn't. Because if he wanted to, we'd be having a totally different discussion about this. He would have already said, "Let's get it on. Let's figure out when."

But why would you prep for something now that you are not anywhere near close to agreeing to do?

ZELDIN: Well, it could possibly be for them to explain to the president through the practice session just what he is getting himself into so that they can help him make a final decision. I'm not so sure that he has actually made a final decision. I think he does have an instinct that says, "I can talk my way through such an interview with Mueller." And I think these practice sessions help inform his judgement as to whether that's true or not.

So I think it's smart for them to practice with him and then say to him, "Well, let's see how that went. What do you think? How does this, you know, inform us about what we should be doing down the line in our final decision?"

CUOMO: That makes more sense. So that it's not a "let's prepare," which is "let's prepare to prepare or not." You know, let's go through what this will mean.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And the lawyers may have set aside four hours, while the president was doing, obviously, other things. But let's talk about what Rudy Giuliani -- you'll remember, he raised -- well, he didn't answer it, actually, in any sort of satisfactory way about on the Sunday show, when George Stephanopoulos asked him, is it possible that this fund was used to pay other women? Is it possible that Michael Cohen paid other women for the president? And Rudy Giuliani -- I'm paraphrasing -- said something like, "I don't know. It's possible."

CUOMO: Maybe he could have. That is the kind of thing that Michael Cohen did.

CAMEROTA: Kellyanne Conway said something also like, "It didn't cross my desk." And then yesterday, Sarah Sanders was asked the same question, and here's how she addressed it.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are there other women out there who received money from the president to stay quiet?

SANDERS: I'm not aware of any other activity, but I would refer you to Rudy Giuliani to respond to any of those questions or anybody else on the president's outside counsel.


CAMEROTA: John, I mean, but of course they can't answer. They have no idea.

AVLON: I'm sorry.

CAMEROTA: They don't know. Who knows?

AVLON: That's just how far down the rabbit hole we are right now. Is it possible there are other women who have been paid off for silence? Sure, it's possible. Who knows?

I mean, you know, there are other presidential standards. Even though we live in an age of sort of sociopathic politicians, you know, there is a standard that people tried to hold themselves to a higher standard, where it would be extremely unlikely for it to happen once, let alone multiple times, where you need a chain letter NDA to pass out.

CUOMO: Right. But also, let's just be very clear about something, all right? And again, Sarah Sanders has a tough job. That's true.

AVLON: Yes, she does.

CUOMO: So do you. You still make choices --

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

CUOMO: -- every day about how to do it.

There are only two possibilities here. OK? I mean, you know, anybody who's been inside of a campaign knows that there are only two possibilities.


CUOMO: The one is "I know damn well what the truth is of the situation," or at least what you're willing to tell me.


CUOMO: And I'm either going to ask for plausible deniability, which is all right, fine. If you don't want to talk to me, fine. Or I know things that I'm just not going to discuss them. This kind of answer is what I believe gets Sarah Huckabee Sanders in trouble, because she has to know -- they have to have discussed it.


CUOMO: There's no chance that you wouldn't discuss it, unless they want plausible deniability.

CAMEROTA: She's not asking. And he's not telling. So she doesn't know.

CUOMO: That's plausible deniability. That is inherently dishonest.

AVLON: I'm not sure it is if there are places people don't go. Look, you know your way around political facts as well as anybody, but here's also the reality. I don't think she knows. I don't think it's a question of they want to bring up. How many women were there?

CUOMO: Everyone has been asking that question for a long time, and you never bring it up with the principal?


CUOMO: You haven't been in a campaign.

AVLON: I have.

CUOMO: You have. That's unheard of. You don't discuss what the problem is.

CAMEROTA: I think it would be unthinkable for her to walk into the president, "Mr. President, I have a question. Have you paid other women?" And for him to answer that.

AVLON: Also -- also, the additional factor with him is you can say, "How many women were there," and he could plausibly say in private, "Absolutely none." You may not think the president is telling the truth.

CUOMO: But then that's what she would have said.

AVLON: The point is you're dealing with an inherently unreliable narrator in your principal.

CUOMO: I'm just saying that if you want cover for your own credibility, and you want to be taken seriously, you're talking to a bunch of pros. OK? The people that you're giving this answer to is not just the American people. It's people who have heard this for many, many years, some of them. They know what's likely and what's unlikely. It doesn't help your credibility.

CAMEROTA: All right. Gentlemen, thank you very much. We do need to get to breaking news.

ZELDIN: Can I just add one thing --

CAMEROTA: Very quickly, Michael -- no. We have breaking news.

CUOMO: No, we can't. Picture changed.

CAMEROTA: Breaking news, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, a prominent adversary of President Trump and a champion of the #MeToo movement, resigned amid allegations of physical abuse from several women.

CNN Brynn Gingras joins us with all of the breaking details.

I mean, this is just hours old. What do you know?

[06:15:04] BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, Alisyn, allegations of physical and verbal abuse, slapping, strangling, to the point two women say they had to go to the hospital. One woman says Schneiderman called her a whore. The allegations made by four women in total and paints very different pictures of a man you said has been regarded as a champion for the women in the #MeToo movement.


GINGRAS (voice-over): New York's attorney general, Eric Schneiderman, abruptly resigning three hours after "The New Yorker" published an article detailing abuse allegations from four different women. Two of the women, who were romantically involved with Schneiderman, speaking to the magazine on the record, saying that the attorney general would, quote, "repeatedly hit them, often after drinking, frequently in bed and never with their consent."

Neither woman filed a police report, but both say they sought medical attention after being slapped and choked, the article stated.

The women also accusing Schneiderman of verbal and emotional abuse. Tanya Selvaratnam, who dated Schneiderman from the summer of 2016 until last fall, telling "The New Yorker" that the former attorney general, quote, "started calling me his brown slave and demanding that I repeat that I was his property."

Schneiderman denying the accusations, insisting, quote, "in the privacy of intimate relationships, I have engaged in role-playing and other consensual sexual activity. I have not assaulted anyone. I have never engaged in nonconsensual sex, which is a line I would not cross."

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo called for his resignation and, within an hour, the attorney general stepped down. Quote, "While these allegations are unrelated to my professional conduct or the operations of the office, they will effectively prevent me from leading the office's work at this critical time."

Schneiderman's resignation, a dramatic fall from grace for a public official widely considered to be a champion for women's rights.

SCHNEIDERMAN: Are we ready to fight against male supremacy in all its forms?

GINGRAS: As Attorney General Schneiderman, who is not married, was at the forefront of the #MeToo movement, leading the legal charge against Harvey Weinstein and the Weinstein Company.

SCHNEIDERMAN: We have never seen anything as despicable as what we've seen here. A pervasive pattern of sexual harassment, intimidation, discrimination and abuse at the Weinstein Company.

GINGRAS: Schneiderman has also been a fierce critic of President Trump and his policies, bringing more than 100 actions over everything from the DREAMer program to potential presidential pardons.

SCHNEIDERMAN: When bullies step up, you have to step to them and step to them quickly; and that's what we're here to do today.

GINGRAS: In 2013, Schneiderman sued Trump for fraud over Trump University, resulting in a $25 million settlement. The president's allies are celebrating Schneiderman's resignation,

Donald Trump Jr. retweeting this 2013 message from Mr. Trump, predicting that Schneiderman will be next, asking, "Is he a crook? Wait and see. Worse than Spitzer or Wiener."


GINGRAS: And the Manhattan district attorney's office says it has opened an investigation into Schneiderman's conduct. His replacement will be selected immediately by New York's state assembly and senate via joint ballot -- Chris and Alisyn.

CUOMO: All right, Brynn. This is just a breathtaking fall for the attorney general. He was a rising Democratic star, at least within the New York state political arena, and now he is gone.

How this came to be, how "The New Yorker" developed this story, the fallout not just for Schneiderman but for the party, and the reaction from the president, next.


[06:22:44] CAMEROTA: New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, a champion of the #MeToo movement, resigning abruptly last night, hours after four women accused him of physical abuse. The disturbing details are outlined in a report in "The New Yorker."

Joining us to discuss this, we have CNN political analysts John Avlon and Margaret Talev.

Margaret, this is just hideous stuff. I mean, the stuff that is contained in this "New Yorker" article that Ronan Farrow, in part, reported is so jaw-dropping about Eric Schneiderman. I mean, the irony that he was a champion of women's rights, that he was fighting Harvey Weinstein and then -- I'm just going to read one -- it's a long article. I'm just going to read one paragraph that includes a lot of the stuff that these women are accusing him of, including excessive drinking, pill taking that was not his own and then all sorts of violence and sexual violence against them.

Here it is: "One of the women, Manning Barish, says that Schneiderman also took prescription tranquillizers and often asked her to refill a prescription that she had for Xanax so he could reserve about half of the pills for himself. (Schneiderman's spokesperson said that he has never commandeered anyone's medications). Sometimes in bed, she recalls, 'He would be shaking me and grabbing my face while demanding that she repeat such things as," quote, "'I'm a little whore.' She also says that he told her, 'If you ever left me, I'd kill you.'"

I don't even know where to begin with this. I mean, it's so appalling. But obviously, there's a conversation that needs to be had about what category all this goes into.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: These are -- this is a damning story. This is a terrible story in the fact that there are now multiple accounts and at least two on the record. Helps to explain why Democrats in New York moved so quickly to call for him to go and why he needed to go immediately.

But I think you're exactly right. It is -- most recently, he's, you know, so well-known for carrying the mantle of #MeToo. But his entire career has been built since the beginning on elevating women's causes. And -- and so it is sort of like the -- sort of the worst combination of factors.

This is an interesting political story separately from just the merits of -- all of these issues need be looked at, investigated, but this is an interesting political story, because he's also built his reputation recently so directly on going after the president's policies. And I think it's a number of things. It's everything from environmental policy to immigration policy.

[06:25:07] But it is this issue that ties to the Mueller investigation about pushing for a change in the state law to be able to go after former Trump aides if they're pardoned at the federal level, that makes this sort of such a political prize and political target for the president and his -- and his team.

CUOMO: I mean, on the one hand, obviously full disclosure, the name is not a coincidence. You know that my brother is the governor of New York for now. And this did not play originally as a partisan issue. In fairness to all the Republicans in the state at the leadership level, nobody was coming out and defending Eric Schneiderman. Even his own team was a little sideways on it.

But it did become more political as the story went on. Obviously, this is -- this is a death blow to someone in public service and for good reason. But the president, through proxies, did start coming out about this. What do you make of that calculation?

CAMEROTA: You want me to read some Don Jr.?

CUOMO: Please.

AVLON: Sure!

CUOMO: The son but also Kellyanne Conway. You know, very big deal.

CAMEROTA: Kellyanne Conway has tweeted and Don Jr. as tweeted a lot about this. OK. Here is just one example. He retweeted Eric Schneiderman's old tweet saying that "Sexual assault survivors, what happened to you is unconscionable. We have your back, and we're fighting for you." Don Jr. tweets, "This didn't age well."

He then tweets, "Was it excessive use of eye liner that gave it away? Totally normal." So going after Schneiderman's looks.

In other words, I mean, turning it into something -- a different conversation, going after Schneiderman's looks instead of just sticking with the appalling subject.

AVLON: Sure. Look, once upon a time before Trump, hypocrisy was the unforgivable sin in politics. We are through the looking glass with that, with the president on many issues. But by people really immediately calling for the attorney general of

New York's resignation, it was an affirmation that these standards do matter, and it was Democrats. And it should be noted, "The New Yorker," not known for being a conservative magazine, going after him, as well. And it shows that some things are beyond politics, and they should be beyond politics.

This is not just a violence against women story and hypocrisy in Schneiderman trying to hold up the #MeToo movement and being a real critic of the president. This is also an abuse of power and arrogance of power story. Him apparently calling himself the chief law enforcement officer and saying, you know, "You can't hit an officer of the law." And that's one of the things that makes it so disturbing.

So I think the response has got to be a little bit bigger than petty partisan politics, too.

CUOMO: Right. That's the interesting political play. I mean, you know, arguably, Eric Schneiderman was the chief law enforcement officer in the state of New York.


CUOMO: That's the attorney general.

CAMEROTA: Using that to threaten your girlfriends is so appalling.

AVLON: Of course.

CUOMO: You were talking about what category it goes in. He's dealing with potential criminal expose here. Especially one of the women is not named in here. There's fear, first of all, which is a major indication of the nature of how this will be handled, but not an ongoing relationship, not something where consent is an issue. That could be criminal exposure.

Let's look at what Schneiderman said at first about this. There was an initial statement.

CAMEROTA: This is via Twitter.

CUOMO: Right. "In the privacy of intimate relationships, I've engaged in role-playing and other consensual sexual activity. I've not assaulted anyone. I've never engaged in nonconsensual sex, which is a line I would not cross." Now, that is heavily disputed by the people who are coming forward.

CAMEROTA: Oh, yes. They call it sexual violence at his hands. It was sexual violence; it was nonconsensual. So then three hours later --

CUOMO: He came out with another statement.

CAMEROTA: Here's his statement: "It's been my great honor and privilege to serve as attorney general for the people of the state of New York. In the last several hours, serious allegations, which I strongly contest, have been made against me. While these allegations are unrelated to my professional conduct or the operations of the office, they will effectively prevent me from leading the office work -- the office's work at this crucial time. I therefore resign my office, effective at the close of business on May 8, 2018."

Actually, they did bleed into this professional life. I mean, there are stories that he was hospitalized -- he was so drunk he fell down, he cut himself. He injured the women to the point where they had to seek medical attention. It did bleed into his professional life.

TALEV: This is a terrible story for the people immediately affected by it. It's a very troubling story for the people more broadly affected by all the policies.

And then there is the political aspect of the story, which are -- which is this is a year when women in politics and women in elections and women as voters and women as candidates is incredibly important. And this will continue to affect the debate. It is immediately something for Democrats in the state of New York to answer for, but it is more broadly, an issue that keeps this discussion alive. And I think on that level, it affects members of both parties in every state.

CUOMO: And very early, but John, let me ask you something. Missed opportunity here? Don Jr. Again, he's the son. He doesn't have any official capacity, but you know, no mention of taking the high ground here, making the points that you would think are the obvious points here about what's tolerated. What isn't tolerated.

TALEV: Talking about women.

CAMEROTA: Kellyanne did that.

CUOMO: But she made it a political gotcha, to use her own words. Is that -- am I missing something. Like, it seems to me the obvious way was to go at this was this was wrong. Here's why it's wrong. Here's what's right. Here's what we must re-enforce.

AVLON: Chris, I don't think you get called Pollyanna very often. But I mean, look, man, why would you look for the high road in this particular political environment?