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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER
10 People Killed, 10 Wounded in School Shooting. Aired 4:30-5p ET
Aired May 18, 2018 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[16:30:30] DAKOTA SHRADER, STUDENT WHO SURVIVED SANTA FE HIGH SCHOOTING: I was scared for my life. Nobody should go through this. Nobody should be able to feel that in school. This is a place where we're supposed to feel safe. That is where we come most of the week. Nobody should have to go through this and feel that pain. It hurts my heart to see this.
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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: That was Dakota Shrader. She's a 10th grader at Santa Fe high school in Texas, capturing the pain that the shooting this morning brought to so many and Dakota now joins me on the phone.
Dakota, first of all, I want to tell you something, you're right. You shouldn't have to go through this. And I'm so sorry that you are.
SHRADER (via telephone): I'm sorry (INAUDIBLE) -- can you hear me?
TAPPER: Yes, I can hear you. Are you OK?
TAPPER: Did you know of the victims, Dakota?
SHRADER: Yes. I knew one. Brianna Quintinella (ph).
TAPPER: It's so horrible. So, you were at the school this morning and you heard shots but you were not near the actual shooting?
SHRADER: No. I wasn't. I was like on the opposite side of the school, when I heard them, I was out in the field behind the high school on the left side.
TAPPER: So they had already evacuated you?
SHRADER: Yes. With -- when the fire alarm went off, everybody was coming out and I don't know if everybody had enough time to get out, but I got out and I ran when I heard the sound go off -- the sound --
TAPPER: And how soon after that were you able to get connected to your family?
SHRADER: As soon as I ran into the woods, I -- me and Ryan, my friend with me, we sat down and hid and I called my mom as fast as I could.
TAPPER: And your mom came and picked you up.
SHRADER: Yes. About like 15 minutes after that.
TAPPER: We understand you didn't know the accused gunman and, you know, at a time like this, everybody tries to look to see what could have been done, were there any red flags that were missed so as to prevent anything like this from happening again. Had you ever heard anything about him? Did he seem -- did you ever see any red flags having to do with him?
SHRADER: In what I know -- I didn't even know him. I've never seen him around school. And I -- I don't really have many friends, so I don't talk to that many people. But as far as I know, I've never seen him in school. And he was never talking if I ever did. I saw maybe a couple of times.
TAPPER: So I just interviewed your member of Congress and asked him -- well, he started talking about how schools needed to have active shooter drills and how there needed to be armed guards. You had that at your school, right? Santa Fe High School, you did active shooter drills.
SHRADER: Yes. We did have shooter drills and we did have many cops and police on our campus. But not once did we have a fire shooting drill. Even after the scare tactic in February, we never had a drill.
TAPPER: You didn't have a drill -- you did not have a drill after the Parkland shooting, since then you haven't had one.
TAPPER: Do you think that would have changed anything today?
SHRADER: Maybe -- it could have helped the situation a little bit better. But when you are in that state, everybody is still going to be scared and chaotic. It would have helped, yes. A little bit.
TAPPER: Some of your classmates participated in that walk-out after the Parkland shooting in Florida. What's your take on the gun debate and what needs to be done to keep schools safer? If you have one, maybe you don't.
SHRADER: Well, I do have a little one. I think that we -- we shouldn't have gun rights but I think we should strict -- make them more gun laws strict. Maybe we can't buy them like as a minor and maybe older, when you are 21 and not necessarily 18. That is the age, right? 18.
TAPPER: It depends on the gun and it depends on the state, but, yes, you have it basically right. But the main reason I wanted you to come on the show because we were all moved by what you said, and we all agree with you.
[16:35:00] School should be safe and I just wanted you to know we watched that and thinking, yes, Dakota Shrader is right.
TAPPER: Good luck, Dakota.
SHRADER: Thank you.
TAPPER: Coming up next, a father who lost his daughter in the Parkland shooting will join us and talk about this latest horror.
TAPPER: As the horrific details of the shooting in Santa Fe, Texas, today are still unfolding, we remember, it was only three months ago in Parkland, Florida, when 17 students and were murdered at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.
I want to bring in Fred Guttenberg, and his 14-year-old daughter Jaime was killed that tragic day in Florida.
Fred, good to see you again.
You just listened to an emotional interview with Dakota Schrader, a 10th grader at Santa Fe High School. How are you doing? This must be a horrible day for you?
FRED GUTTENBERG, DAUGHTER KILLED IN PARKLAND HS SHOOTING: Listen, this is a horrible week. I mean, this is the reality of gun violence. My week started with Mother's Day, the first without my kid, followed by the three-month anniversary of the shooting and then followed by today.
And, you know, I just -- I can't get over that this is happening again and I just want to say, because all I think about right now today is the families, my heart goes out to you. I know what you're going through. I'm here for you. This week I hope people leave you alone so you can mourn, so you could bury your kids and bury your loved ones, so that you could get through the shock.
But I'm here for you. And my heart goes out to you. I just -- I get it.
TAPPER: And it must be so discouraging to think that the horror that you went through, now another set of families are going through it and really very little has changed in terms of anybody doing anything to prevent this from happening.
GUTTENBERG: So I'm going to say this. I'm not discouraged, I'm pissed off and the reason I'm not discouraged is things are changing. Go city to city, state to state, look at what the business community is doing.
Things are changing. Laws are changing. However, on a national level, nothing is happening. And that's where action needs to happen because unfortunately when you have inconsistent laws all over the country, which is what we have now, these things will still happen. When you have states that won't put in place any laws, these things are going to happen.
The reality is we need to do everything we can to stop these incidents from happening. There will be a dissection of what happened here today and figure out why it happened and we'll talk about what we could have done and should have done, but we also need to limit the casualties. We need to deal with the issue of guns as well. We need to deal with everything.
I am actually encouraged by what is happening on a local level. I was just in Ohio this week -- at the request of Governor Kasich and talked to a committee on the House and Senate side there and delivering testimony about what happened in Parkland and what we did it in Florida.
And one of the responses from the legislator was we're not feeling the push to do anything because the citizens aren't pushing us to act. And I said, that's a great thing, because it means Parkland didn't happen here yet. But you don't want to be next. And two days later, here we are at the next one.
I implore all cities, all counties and all states, do what the national -- do what our government will not do, and do it on your own. And I will say shame on our president, shame on Speaker Ryan, shame on the Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and won't open their mouths and not speaking about an issue is not legislation, OK? You can't legislate by shutting up and they are just shutting up and it's pathetic.
TAPPER: So, Fred, I know that after the horrific shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas, there was a move and the parents of the victims such as yourself worked with legislators in Florida, in Tallahassee to pass something and there was -- there was a bill big bill that did pass.
You tweeted earlier today, we do not need thoughts and prayers, we need action. Texas Governor Abbott, he echoed that in a press conference saying that he is going to convene a group to demand action. What are some steps -- obviously -- for a moment, if I could just take the AR-15 debate off the table because we're talking about Texas here. What do you think -- what would you recommend in Texas that might be able to pass?
GUTTENBERG: Oh, let's start with red flag laws, OK? They should be everywhere in this country. No question asked.
When we know of a potential threat, law enforcement ought to have the ability to remove those weapons. No questions asked. And when they go to remove those weapons, what you're going to find is potentially more than guns, which was the case here. So, that's number one.
We need to deal with the age. Kids should not have guns. It should go to 21. Now in this case, it seems like the kids may have gotten the weapons from their parents. So, we need to deal with the responsibility of -- we need to deal with the responsibility of gun ownership.
If parents aren't securing their weapons, then they should be held equally accountable in this incident, OK? If you start holding the parents accountable for the kids have free access to the weapons, parents will change behavior and lock the weapons up, OK? We need to do more with the background check system. We need to deal with these things and we need to ban high-capacity magazines.
But I'll give you another idea that I thought of this morning, and it relates to the $500 million payout from Michigan State in relationship to the Nassar crime.
And when you have a payout like that, that changes behavior, OK? You can be sure universities are going to make sure they never allow things to happen like what happened with this gymnastic coaches every again because they don't want to be the next $500 million payout. Well, you know what, and the gun industry, they need to pay out. We ought to create a national victims compensation fund for all victims of gun violence that is funded by gun manufacturers on every weapon sold and every weapon manufactured, OK? And it can -- if they have to pay, they will change their behavior, you can count on it.
TAPPER: Fred Guttenberg, thanks for joining us and I just wanted you to know we're thinking of Jamie today and we are thinking of you. Thank you so much for coming and talking to us.
GUTTENBERG: Thank you for having me.
TAPPER: Our breaking news coverage continues next. Stay with us.
[16:50:00] TAPPER: Welcome back to CNN live coverage after horrific school shooting in Santa Fe, Texas, just about 30 miles south of Houston. Federal and local and state investigators are right now pouring through the background of the suspect who is now being held on capital murder charges in today's killing of nine students and one teacher in Santa Fe, Texas and wounding of ten others, some of whom are still in the hospital. Let's continue the conversation with the panel. And Art, what you know of the shooter so far in terms of the information that we've been able to glean, is there anything that strikes you as interesting or alarming?
ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, when this first occurred, the first two things that struck me was the fire alarm and then we find out about the explosives. And those are past deadly techniques that were used in other school shooting cases. So you know, I wouldn't be surprised if they find out from his -- from his computer that he's actually gone on and studied deadly techniques used in the past by past active shooters.
TAPPER: Would the trench coat potentially fit into that? Those of us who are old enough to remember Columbine would remember that the -- RODERICK: Yes, Columbine. Yes, we had trench coats in Columbine, we
also had pipe bombs at Columbine. So I mean, those two -- it just wouldn't surprise me if they find out that he's actually gone ahead and studied techniques used in past school shootings.
TAPPER: Josh Campbell, you know the Harris County law enforcement officials in the area of Houston and Santa Fe, Texas. Tell me about how you think they're working with federal law enforcement authorities, state law enforcement authorities and how they're going to decide who will prosecute this case.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That is good question. I mean, having growing up and lived less than an hour from Santa Fe, I can tell you the law enforcement and culture there is very strong and you have that fusion of state, federal and local law enforcement. I think now as we look at what we -- what we know as of yet is that it looks like it will probably be prosecuted on the stateside. It doesn't appear as there's a federal nexus yet, and there's a question with respect to the IED whether that could be you know, prosecutor on weapons of mass destruction charge, I imagine it's going to go state but you can bet the feds will be there assisting every step of the way.
TAPPER: And Dimitri, before we came back from break you told me that we, meaning law enforcement, your former Chicago Police Officer, that you feel you're being out-maneuvered. What do you mean by that?
DIMITRI ROBERTS, FORMER CHICAGO POLICE OFFICER: We're being out- maneuvered by teenagers, but they're also part of the solution. It's time for all hands on deck. We got to be innovative, we got to get everybody involved including the potential victims and teenagers because they're going to help us solve this. But yes, we're absolutely being out-maneuvered and we don't need to, Jake. So it's time for us to keep things moving forward.
TAPPER: When you say out-maneuvered, what do you mean? Obviously, there's this horrific school shooting but --
ROBERTS: While we're arguing about bureaucracy and policy, the folks that want to do bad, do harm to our citizens and our community and our school children, they're the ones that are planning and innovating and coming up with solutions to overcome what we've put in place. Training, active shooter stuff as we've talked about already. We have to start to be more innovative, think further outside of the box, and that is what will save lives.
TAPPER: And Art, I just want to ask you. The explosive devices, you used to work at the bureau of -- I'm sorry, you were U.S. Marshal Service but you worked with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in that capacity sometimes, what -- how sophisticated are these explosives that we're talking about.
RODERICK: Well, I mean, you can -- you can get the information right off the internet and make them in your garage, as we found in a trailer in this particular case. But again, he's done some studying here, I believe, because we know about pressure cookers from the Marathon Bombing, we know about the pipe bombs -- pipe bombs have been around a long time and it's volatile they are there, they are very deadly. You're talking about a lot of shrapnel.
TAPPER: All right, everyone, stick around. We have lot more to talk about upsetting numbers about this year-end school shooting. Stay with us.
TAPPER: We're following our breaking news on the school shooting. I'll be discussing it this Sunday morning on "STATE OF THE UNION." Among our guests will be Senator Mark Warner, Democrat of Virginia. Before we go today, we want to take a minute to remind you that today's massacre in Texas is just the latest in an all too familiar reality in this country. By our account, there have been nine deadly shooting on school campuses just this year. Innocent people, many of them children killed at grade schools and of high schools and of colleges. January 20th at Wake Forest University in North Carolina, one dead.
January 23rd, Marshall County High School in Kentucky, two dead. January 31st, Lincoln High School in Philadelphia, one dead. February 14th, Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, 17 dead. February 24th, Savannah State University, one dead. March 2nd, Central Michigan University, two dead. March 7th, Huffman High School in Birmingham, Alabama, one dead. March 20th, Great Mills High School in Maryland, one dead. And today Santa Fe High School in Texas, at least ten dead. The latest horrifying incident where we heard earlier today from this survivor.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there a part of you that was like, this isn't real, this would not happen in my school?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. There wasn't.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why so?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's been happening everywhere. I felt -- I've always kind of felt like eventually, it was going to happen here too.
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