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Maryland This Evening. The Governor Has Declared A State Of Emergency For The Area Around Ellicott City; The President's Lawyer Rudy Giuliani Speaking Out About The Special Counsel Probe; Russian Investigation Is Clearly Top Of Mind For The President This Weekend; Son Of Robert F. Kennedy Expressing Doubts About Who Actually Killed His Father; New Sign That The North Korea Summit Is Back On; Fans of U2 Already Expect To Be Blown Away By The Futuristic Live Concerts; Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 27, 2018 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:28] RYAN NOBLES, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ryan Nobles in for Ana Cabrera.
And we do have breaking news coming out of Maryland this evening. The governor has declared a state of emergency for the area around Ellicott City. This after a torrential downpour caused massive flooding there.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)
NOBLES: That's police issuing a strong warning to drivers telling them to turn around and not drive through the town's flooded streets. Swift water rescue teams have also been deployed and there are reports of buildings collapsing. The town is under a flash flood watch until early tomorrow morning.
Let's start with meteorologist Tom Sater. He is going to join me now.
Tom, what can you tell us about the latest on this flooding in Maryland?
TOM SATER, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, Ryan, it's not over with yet. We are looking at a pattern of rain that we have been stuck in for over two-and-a-half weeks with all of the southeastern U.S. getting hit with thunderstorms every day. But look at the lightning pattern from areas of the Delmarva region, Washington, D.C. County and kind of curving back to the areas south and southwest.
There's a stationary boundary that's been set up it seems like for over two weeks. And with that we are seeing the thunderstorms ride right along that boundary. We are getting closer because we are looking now at most likely what will be round three of the thunderstorms moving towards the region.
We have already seen rain fall rates one to two inches and hour. Some areas have already picked up, four, five and six. And we had one batch, second batch and we still off to the west have more thunderstorm cells that could drop a couple more inches.
This is eerily similar what happened on the 30th of July, just two years ago in 2016. This is an historic area. I know it well. It's beautiful. I mean, homes and businesses. When you watch this area at one end of the town there is a high terrain and some will blame it on topography, some obviously is the infrastructure of this historic town because all the water is funneling down to the lower part of main street, B&O railroad museum, homes, businesses, everyone there who has told to stay in place has had to second up to the second, even third stories of these building.
Two years ago when this happen and more rain on the way, we lost two precious lives. And they thought for sure that they were not going to be able to recover. They thought maybe only 30 percent of the businesses would return. Miraculously, about 90 to 96 came back. Great news. But then they rededicated the city a year later and here we are one year later and it's happening again.
The warnings right now, this is a dire warning from the national weather service out of sterling, Virginia, saying everyone including the media get out and to the highest ground and not just around Ellicott City because you have got the (INAUDIBLE) river. You got all of Howard County and Arundel County. And with more rainfall on the way in this third round, even though in some areas the water may look like it is starting to recede. You have got the rivers that are going to start to swell.
So again, this pattern that we have been set up is just a terrible situation because now besides the thunderstorms this evening you toss in this rain shield from Alberta lifting northward and that is going to give us more of a problem in the days ahead.
So what we have is what's called a flash flood emergency. And that is now been extended to 10:30 this evening. So again what happened two years ago is happening again. We are having some reports that we are actually seeing the water levels a little bit higher in the historic area. So they are actually getting to the point up to the second story of this historic hall.
Now keep this in mind. Because it is a historic area and you have got that high terrain, you got a narrow roads. Some of these buildings go back not just to the early 1800s but late 1700s. And you have to think of the stonework, the masonry, the cobblestones, how many times has the masonry work been repaired over the two decades.
So there were fear two years ago were building collapses and now that's actually what we are seeing now. Numerous 911 calls, water rescues taking place and with a third round of more rainfall moving into the area there's great, great concern obviously as you would expect, Ryan.
NOBLES: Hey Tom, I have seen reports where officials are warning folks just because the rain may have calmed down for a little bit that doesn't mean that it's OK for you to go back into your homes or out into the streets, right. They need to be concerned about this third round of rain that is about to come through, right?
SATER: Yes. And it's not just the area of the historic district, not the Tasco (ph) river runs through quite a few communities but what we are seeing on radar is what we call back building. The instability continues to fire this up. We call it training like the boxcar of a train. One thunderstorm cells after another. So with areas that have picked up over six inches on a short amount of time and you toss in a couple more that is just going to aggravate the situation. Not just in and around Baltimore and Howard County, but now spreading out to much longer areas including Washington, D.C.
[19:05:17] NOBLES: And you can see cars just being carried away by these waters. If you are in a car obviously you turn around and don't drown is what they always say. Do not take this lightly if you are living in this part of the country. This is serious problem.
SATER: Ryan, two years ago, over 200 cars were washed downstream, over 200 and many had to ride out those floodwaters, unfortunately.
NOBLES: All right. Unbelievable pictures.
Tom Sater, thank you for your update. We are going to continue to keep a close eye on this and attempt to get in contact with some folks that are dealing with this to get their perspective as well as we continue to follow the breaking news of a flash flooding in Maryland.
Now back to the White House. And tonight concessions and contradictions. The President's lawyer Rudy Giuliani speaking out to CNN about the special counsel probe. First calling it legitimate and then questioning whether it was. This all happened in the same interview. He also admitted that there is a strategy to undermine Bob Mueller's work. And that -- and that -- and that there's one interview topic that has worried him. If the President does sit down for an interview. Well, take a listen.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Mr. Mayor, I want to just ask point blank. Will the President sit down with Robert Mueller even if the White House legal team or you, anybody on his legal team doesn't get a briefing about this confidential source?
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LAWYER: Well, if he wasn't thinking about it and it wasn't an active possibility, we'd be finished with that by now and would have moved on to getting the investigation over with another way, but he -- he is adamantly in wanting to do it.
BASH: He, the President?
GIULIANI: We the -- the President. But we are more convinced as we see it that this is a rigged investigation. I'm not saying Mueller is illegitimate. I'm saying the basis on which he was appointed is illegitimate. Let's look at --
BASH: So you think that the Mueller probe is legitimate.
GIULIANI: Not anymore.
BASH: How are you so sure that there was no collusion with anybody in the campaign? We don't know exactly where Robert Mueller and his team has right now. Do you know something we don't?
GIULIANI: Well -- yes. I know 50 years of investigatory experience tells me they don't have a darn thing because they would have used it already and they wouldn't be off on collusion. They wouldn't be off on Manafort, they wouldn't off on Cohen. You have got a good case. Man, you go right to it against it and against the president of the United States, you got something and you don't start charging it? Come on.
BASH: Well, maybe not necessarily against the President himself, but people in his orbit. You are confident that there is no collusion.
GIULIANI: I can't -- I can't be confident -- well, my client. I mean, am I confident because I was in that campaign at a very intimate level? Nobody talked about Russians. Nobody knew about Russians. This came as a surprise to me, to the President and to the top four or five people around him had. You go out to the outer orbit how do you know what's going on?
They would probably limited to collusion and obstruction. The collusion part, we are pretty comfortable with because there has been none. The obstruction part I'm not as comfortable with, I'm not. The President is fine with it. He is innocent. I'm not comfortable because it's a matter of interpretation, not just hard and fast true, not true. So if you interpret his comment about firing Mueller -- firing Comey -- discussion of firing Mueller about it. If you interpret that as obstructing the investigation as opposed to removing the guy who is doing a bad job on the recommendation in part of Rosenstein, but you see it as obstructing investigation, then you can say its obstruction.
NOBLES: The mayor obviously correcting that Freudian slip pretty quickly. Let's get right now to CNN's Boris Sanchez who is at the White House.
Boris, there was another admission that Giuliani made in this interview. Pretty news-making interview from Dana Bash this morning regarding the President's conspiracy theory that a spy was planted in his campaign. Tell us about that.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Giuliani, again, making the unsubstantiated claim that there was a spy planted in the Trump campaign by the so-called deep state to try to benefit the Hillary Clinton campaign, something that neither Giuliani nor the President, even lawmakers on Capitol Hill have yet to be able to provide any evidence for but it is something that we have heard repeatedly from the President and his surrogates over recent days.
The President essentially trying to put this message out there at the admission of Giuliani to discredit the special counsel's probe, not necessarily for legal reasons. This isn't a legal strategy but rather to have public opinion sway in the President's direction. He believes that if he can cast doubt about this investigation it would help the President avoid the threat of impeachment. Listen to this exchange this morning on "STATE OF THE UNION."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:10:07] GIULIANI: They are giving us the material. I couldn't do it if I didn't have the material. They are giving us the material to do it. Of course we have to do it in defending the President. We are defending to a large extent. Remember, Dana, we are defending here -- it is for public opinion because eventually the decision here is going to be impeach, not impeach. Members of the Congress, Democrats and Republicans are going to be informed a lot by their constituents. So our jury -- as it should be, it's the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And the Russian investigation is clearly top of mind for the President this weekend. He has tweeted about it numerous times including this curious tweet he sent out this morning referring to young and beautiful lives that have been devastated and destroyed by the phony Russian collusion witch-hunt. Unclear exactly who he is talking about here. I reached out to the White House, the press officials, to see if they would specify or give us an idea. He is talking about George Papadopoulos, Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, a number of people who have already pled guilty to very serious crimes. But Ryan, I have yet to hear back.
NOBLES: The President's tweets often stand for themselves. They often the line from the White House press office.
Boris Sanchez live at the White House, thank you so much.
Coming up, we are staying on top of this breaking news, the stunning new video out of Maryland where heavy rains have turned streets into rivers.
Plus the President revives hopes for a summit with Kim Jong-un as the U.S. delegation arrives in the country to prep for that historic meeting.
And then later, the son of Robert F. Kennedy expressing doubts about who actually killed his father and he's not alone. We are actually going to talk to the one man who was also shot on that fateful day. You do not want to miss it. It happened back in 1968.
[19:17:05] NOBLES: Welcome back. And we are turning to our developing news. The president's attorney Rudy Giuliani telling CNN of course the legal team has the right to undermine special counsel Robert Mueller.
Joining us to discuss this now White House reporter from Bloomberg News Tolouse Olorunnipa and CNN Presidential historian and former director of the Nixon Presidential library, Tim Naftali.
Toluse, let's start with you. I mean, does it seem now like the President's team is focusing more on a political than legal strategy?
TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, BLOOMBERG NEWS: Yes. That's exactly right. You heard Rudy Giuliani say let's take this to the American people. President Trump has been talking about how this is a witch-hunt using all kind of language that's not legal in nature but much more directed towards the voters, hoping that his base who he has said he could shoot someone on fifth avenue and his base would stay with him. He is hoping to grow his base and have more people describe this FBI investigation, this special counsel investigation, as illegitimate. That's why you hear him using the word spy and spygate.
We had some reporting earlier this week that he specifically chose that term because it sound much more worse than confidential informant. So you have seen from the President's tweets this weekend that he is really making this a political game trying to turn the mind of voters against the special counsel so when Robert Mueller comes out with whatever reports or indictments that he does comes out with targeting the President's inner circle and potentially even implicating the President himself that the voters will say that this is all part of a deep state witch-hunt against. That's clear from all Rudy Giuliani's statements in all of his multiple interviews everything that they are trying to do.
And Tim, it does seem pretty clear that at least Rudy Giuliani however much you can state his influence in this legal team, seems to be willing to take that risk, right, that the politics of this, and you heard him say impeach or not impeach. What do you draw from that statement?
TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, first -- the first thing I drop on this statement is they are afraid that the Democrats are actually going to win the House in the midterms. So the first thing is they are preparing for a post-November situation.
The second thing that's really interesting is I think Giuliani is signaling to us that more bad stuff about Trump is about to come out. You wouldn't be saying that or talking about impeachment which by the way the Democratic leaders are not talking about impeachment.
NOBLES: There are Democrats talking about --.
NAFTALI: That's a big difference. You know, in the whole Nixon story, Democratic leaders didn't start talking about impeachment until after the Saturday night massacre and that's in 1973.
NAFTALI: And so, what he is doing he is telling us two things. One, they are preparing for a Democratic victory in the House in November. And, two, there's some bad stuff that they are expecting will come out via the Mueller investigation. So they are preparing. They are laying the ground for it. This is not unprecedented in U.S. history. That's exactly what Nixon's team did. They tried to discredit the investigations because they wanted to protect their man in a political fight. They wanted to make it a political fight, not a moral or criminal fight.
[19:20:00] NOBLES: Right. Similar to what happened with Bill Clinton as well. We saw the same thing play out during that time frame as well.
And Toluse, Republican Senator Jeff Flake says there's concern among Republicans that the President is laying the groundwork to fire Robert Mueller or deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein. Take a listen to what Senator Flake had to say this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: I can tell you behind the scenes there is a lot of alarm. There is concern that the President is laying the groundwork to move on Bob Mueller or Rosenstein. And if that were to happen obviously that would cause a constitutional crisis.
There is concern behind the scenes. I have vented concerns that we haven't spoken up loudly enough and told the President you simply can't go there, and he is obviously probing the edges as much as he can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
FLAKE: To see how far Congress will go. And we have got to push back harder than we have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBLES: Jeff Flake is basically the only Republican who is saying this publicly, Toluse. I mean, I have heard the whispers on Capitol Hill. There are a lot of Republicans talking about it behind the scenes. Are there similar concerns among the White House staff that the President may take a move like this?
OLORUNNIPA: Well, it's clear as Senator Flake said that the President is probing the edges. He is getting closer and closer to whatever red lines are being drawn. And the truth is that there aren't very many red lines that have been drawn publicly by members of Congress to say if the President does this, then we will, you know, take x, y, z action. It's clear that President Trump wants to see how much he can get away with. We saw that when he sent his own personal lawyer to this highly classified intelligence briefing on Capitol Hill, something that was very unusual to have the President's lawyer sitting there during a briefing about an investigation that could implicate the President's own campaign.
I don't know that people in the White House are necessarily concerned because they have learned not to anticipate anything with this President. They are constantly on their toes and being surprised and we have seen multiple times people go out speak On the Record and on background and have the President undercut them. So I think they are used to it by now in the White House but it's clear that the President wants to see how much he can get away within.
This time last week, he was saying on twitter I hereby declare that I'm going to cause the justice department to look into something that would really undermine an ongoing investigation into his campaign. So it's clear that the President wants to move much more aggressively against this investigation and take on the people who are investigating him. And there aren't very many guardrails that have been set up to stop him from doing that because we haven't heard many people speak out like Senator Flake has to tell the President that if the he crosses this red line that's what's going to happen.
NOBLES: But Tim, to it a certain extent, the President, there is some benefit to keeping Robert Mueller in place, right, because he is building him up as his foil. Could that be one of the reasons that he maybe stop short of taking that formal aggressive move of removing him from his position.
NAFTALI: It's never quite clear with Donald Trump because he can change his mind with a tweet. To my mind I think a lot of pressure has been put on the President by the closest allies telling him not to do this. I'm sure that if given the opportunity he would have gotten rid of Mueller.
Mueller is the most dangerous threat to his presidency because Mueller has subpoena power. The Republicans have not used subpoena power in the House or in the Senate to ask the tough questions, to get the tough document, the important things that you need to really investigate a problem. Mueller has subpoena power and he's using it. So that's a big threat to Donald Trump.
NOBLES: All right. Excellent conversation. Tim and Toluse, thank you both for joining me. I appreciate it.
Still to come, a new sign that the North Korea summit is back on. A U.S. delegation crosses the DMZ to prepare for a meeting between President Trump and Kim Jong-un. More on this in your weekend Presidential brief.
Plus, the breaking news from Ellicott City, Maryland. A state of emergency after flash floods hit the area. Incredible images coming into our NEWSROOM. We are going to share them with you when we come back.
[19:28:24] NOBLES: It was on and then it was off and now a new development involving that planned summit between President Trump and North Korea's Kim Jong-un. The President confirming on twitter that a U.S. delegation has crossed the demilitarized zone into North Korea to make arrangements for the June 12th meeting adding quote "I truly believe North Korea has brilliant potential and will be a great economic and financial nation one day. Kim Jong-un agrees with me on this. It will happen."
The news comes just days after President Trump called off the meeting in a letter to Kim in part because of a North Korean official had referred to vice President mike pence as a political dummy, but Trump seemed to confirm that talks were back on last night. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We can be successful in the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula. It would be a great thing for North Korea and great thing for South Korea. It would be great for Japan and great for the world. Great for the United States and great for China. A lot of people are working on it. It's moving along very nicely so we are looking at June 12th in Singapore. That hasn't changed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBLES: The planned summit brings us to your weekly Presidential brief, a segment that we bring you every Sunday night highlighting some of the most pressing national security information the President will need when he wakes up tomorrow.
Joining us is CNN national security analyst and former National Security Council advisor Sam Vinograd. She spent two years in the Obama administration helping prep with the daily brief.
Sam, in light of the high-stakes summit that may or may not happen on June 12th, what should be in the President's briefing book tomorrow morning?
[19:30:10] SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think the briefing though it could kick off with a leader profile of Kim Jong-un that focuses in the first instance on his intentions. Is he going to show up in Singapore? And if he does, is he going to come to the table in a meaningful way? The answer to that question seems to be yes right now based upon the fact that we sent this team to North Korea to engage in negotiations.
And second, I think the leader profile will look at what is Kim going to respond best to right now, carrots or sticks? We heard the President start to integrate some more threatening language after he briefly cancelled the summit with Kim Jong-un. And then earlier today in his tweet, he was praising the opportunity for North Korea again. So we are going to see the administration using intelligence analysis hopefully to calibrate their public and private messages to Kim Jong- un.
And finally, this leader profile would include analysis of what Kim's red lines are and what he is actually willing to negotiate on. We would feed this to our negotiating team in North Korea so that they spend time working on things that are an avenue for success and don't go down rabbit holes.
And second, Ryan, I think that we talk less about this, but there should be ongoing intelligence assessments about the state of the North Korean nuclear program. This is a big gap for us. We now have experts on the ground in North Korea talking to North Koreans and they may be getting information that they are feeding back to the intelligence community so that the President has minute-by-minute updates on what's actually going on. NOBLES: Yes.
Now in addition to Kim's intentions which are obviously important, I mean, what do you think that north and South Korea are thinking right now about this potential summit?
VINOGRAD: Well, I think that North Korea wants to keep negotiations warm if not hot because negotiations provide and already have provided Kim with some benefits. He thinks that they will bring economic relief. He thinks they will provide him for reputational boost, if he is viewed as a committed and incredible negotiator on par with world leaders like Donald Trump.
And I also think that for Kim negotiations are a security blanket. If we are engaged in negotiations with North Korea and if Donald Trump thinks that they could lead somewhere, we are going to be less likely to engage in a military strike so they are security blankets in certain response.
And for South Korea, this is an extension issue. President Moon will literally do anything that it takes to keep negotiations on track. I mean, he went to North Korea on Saturday and literally embraced Kim Jong-un because he wants these negotiations to go ahead because the alternative is so scary. The alternative is a military strike which could lead to North Korean retaliation that puts millions of South Korean lives at risk. And, remember. President Moon has a lot invested personally in this. His ratings have gone way up since this effort has started, and so I think he also wants to keep this going for that reason.
NOBLES: Yes. Paula Hancocks telling us early 80 percent his approval rating is right now.
Now this summit almost went off the rails. It might still be off the rails. But what do you think the intel community is telling the President about what the road looks like to Singapore?
VINOGRAD: Well, the road got a little bit rocky over the past few days as we know, and that was because, and it may have been a negotiating strategy, we had people like John Bolton and Mike Pence use phrases that set Kim off. So by talking about Libya, for example, we know that the North Koreans are going to have a visceral reaction. And if we talk only about what we want from North Korea and not what the -- the end of the rainbow looks like, Kim Jong-un is probably going to feel like he's in a corner. So I think we are going to be relying on intelligence that tells us how to keep Kim calm and not set this off the rails.
NOBLES: All right. Sam Vinograd, an excellent analysis. As always, we appreciate our Presidential weekly brief.
VINOGRAD: Thank you.
NOBLES: Coming up, his assassination left the nation reeling. And now 50 years after the death of Robert F. Kennedy, his son section pressing doubts about who actually killed him. We will talk to one man who survived that same shooting in 1968 next.
Plus, reports of building collapses in Ellicott City, Maryland, as flash floods hit area. We are tracking the severe weather threat.
[19:38:34] NOBLES: Next week will mark 50 years since the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy. A traumatizing moment for a country gripped by the chaos of Vietnam and the killing of Martin Luther King Jr. just two months before. It's also a moment still unsettled in the minds of many, including RFK'S son Robert Kennedy Jr. Who told "the Washington Post" that he is not convinced that Sirhan Sirhan killed his father and believes a second gunman must have been involved.
That belief is shared by Paul Schrade. He is a survivor of that same shooting on the night of June 5th, 1968. Schrade was walking behind by the Kennedy at the Los Angeles hotel where he was murdered. Now Schrade believes while the shoot that struck him in the head came from Sirhan's gun, he doesn't think he could have shot Kennedy.
And Paul Schrade joins us now to discuss this fascinating topic.
Thank you for being with us, sir. It has been 50 years but you still recall that night in great detail. Tell us what you remember.
PAUL SCHRADE, WOUNDED AT ATTACK THAT KILLED ROBERT F. KENNEDY: Well, it was a wonderful night because Bob Kennedy came back into contention for the presidency after he lost Oregon. And we were able to deliver the votes in California. So we were full of hope because we could deal with the chaos in this country among students, among blacks and among Latinos and among poor people who didn't have hope.
[19:40:08] NOBLES: And you have said that you don't believe that Sirhan Sirhan acted alone. In fact, you told "the Washington Post" recently quote "yes, he did shoot me. Yes, he shot four other people and aimed at Kennedy. The important thing is he did not shoot Robert Kennedy. Why didn't they go after the second gunman? They knew about him right away. They knew they didn't want to know what it was. They wanted a quickie."
From your perspective why do you think no one saw a second shooter?
SCHRADE: Well, because it was so crowded in that pantry area. We were dealing with an area about -- oh, about so -- about 10 x 12 feet. And there were 50, 75 people in that area. It was be easy for somebody to slip up behind Bob and shoot hm. But Sirhan was not in position to shoot Robert Kennedy after his first two shots. He missed Kennedy. He shot me. He was captured, thrown up against a steam table by Carl Uecker, the ambassador guy who was touring Kennedy through the pantry.
He was out of control at that point. He was captured. He did get off six shots, but the shots were directed by Carl Uecker away from Kennedy. So he was out of bullets and out of position. So he couldn't have shot Robert Kennedy. The second gunman came up behind Kennedy where he was left and standing by Carl Uecker and he was shot in the back four times.
NOBLES: So do you think there was a cover-up here, sir? Do you think someone is hiding something?
SCHRADE: Absolutely there's a cover-up because they knew that right from the beginning, right from Carl Uecker's statement to the police, that he -- that he had captured Sirhan. He did this three hours after the shooting. They knew that Sirhan was a captive. They knew that Sirhan couldn't do it, and then they failed, deliberately failed to go after the second gunman and never held an investigation and still haven't held an investigation, and that's what we're demanding.
NOBLES: So why do you think -- why do you think, sir, then that Sirhan himself has not talked at all about this conspiracy? He talks -- he says he doesn't remember what happened that night. He doesn't think he shot Kennedy but he just doesn't talk about it. Wouldn't he know if there were a conspiracy?
SCHRADE: No, he might not. There could be two -- there were two separate gunmen in there that night. There's no evidence that Sirhan was collaborating with anybody. That he was acting alone, maybe under control. We don't know that. He doesn't remember and he said so when I went to his parole board hearing back a couple years ago. He -- that's his defense, but he doesn't really need a defense in terms of murdering Robert Kennedy. He didn't do it.
SCHRADE: And the prosecution knew and has the evidence that the second gunman did. We have that evidence. It's from their files. They knew that the second gunman shot Robert Kennedy.
NOBLES: Bobby Kennedy's son, Robert Kennedy Jr., obviously agrees with you from this perspective. Do you talk to RFK Jr. a lot? Do you speak with him often? And what do you think about his new push for a second investigation to take place?
SCHRADE: Well, I have been talking to him for the last several years, and he finally decided that he had to take a stand as well because justice for his father is finding second gunman. Justice is not dealing with Sirhan. He deserves justice, too, and should be out of prison, and he understands that. We have been talking about this for several years.
When I decided to go to the parole board hearing a couple years ago, I talked to him about it. He says -- and I said is it OK with you, and he says, yes. You are doing the right thing. Well, he did the right thing, too, recently by going there and telling Sirhan that you did not shoot my father, and I know that.
NOBLES: Quickly, sir, because we do have to wrap up. I mean, if there is a cover-up, who do you think is behind it? Do you have a theory?
SCHRADE: Have no theories at all. I don't operate on theories. I'm operating mainly on the prosecution's own evidence that Sirhan didn't do it and the prosecution's own evidence that there was a second gunman. They never investigated. They are derelict in their duty. And I think it's misconduct on the part of the people during that period and misconduct on the part of the chief of police and the district attorney presently because they know what I know, and they refuse to do anything about it. We tried to convince them to have a new investigation. They refuse because they know the truth.
[19:45:00] NOBLES: All right. Paul Schrade who was there for a seminal moment, a victim of a gunshot wound himself on the night of the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy.
Mr. Schrade, thank you so much for sharing your perspective. Really appreciate it.
SCHRADE: Thanks for having me.
The assassination of RFK is one of the tragedies explored in the CNN series "1968." Tune in tonight starting at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on CNN.
We will be right back.
[19:49:51] NOBLES: You are about to see reality and not quite reality. Joined together thanks to one of the most enduring and innovative rock bands. Fans of U2 already expect to be blown away by the futuristic live concerts. But now the band says playing with cyberspace actually makes themselves more human for their fans.
CNN's Laurie Segall talked to Bono and the edge.
[19:50:28] LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY SENIOR TECH CORRESPONDENT: One of the interesting parts of the show and the augmented reality show is it's an experience of mortality, too. I read you said being a rock star is immortal. It certainly seems like in the last years you are grazing the earth a little bit.
BONO, U2: People think they are immortal, don't they? Every teenager does. I did. And then you join a rock and roll band. You are sure you are immortal kind of thing and then you discover you are not. But it's just -- it was just interesting to -- to share, to try and have the courage to share that -- those fears and those anxieties.
SEGALL: Look no further than the show as of really introspective look at your lives you're your success and your children and everything you have built up until this point. How do you want to be known?
THE EDGE, U2: Well, I think arts is our simultaneously very self- obsessed and selfish but also they are trying to grapple with the big questions and I think our work really speaks the most eloquently. I think if the songs are famous I'm happy. I think they speak better than I could ever about us and what I'm about. BONO: A good father would be good. Good partner. Good mate would be
good. And that you wrote songs that were -- that you could never live up to. But that they have their own life and that they served your audience well.
NOBLES: Pretty cool. Laurie Segall joins me now.
Laurie, it is not unlike the guys from U2 to get a little philosophical as they could they did in this interview with you. But talk about this augmented reality. Is it really going to let their fans experienced something that they can't even see with their naked eye?
SEGALL: I mean, it's cool. Listen, I think every artist, and Bono is certainly not immune in struggling with this idea that we all have these smart phones, we all have these screens and we are all struggling with this idea of are we more present? Are we not?
SEGALL: And so, you know, these guys are looking at the experience of having fans holding up their phones and, you know, doing that anyway. And so what they said is, you know, let's not go against this. Let's try to create an experience. So at the beginning of the show you actually hold up your phone and you see an image of Bono kind of coming out of a glacier. It is a really cool and interesting augmented reality experience.
And it supposed to talk about -- a play of the idea of mortality and Bono hasn't really open up too much about this but in the last couple of years, he said he had a brush with mortality. So you see him becoming even more philosophical. And it is this idea of how do we help fans kind of get closer to this idea of it and not use the screen as separating?
So it was interesting, you know, normally they don't bring in tech reporters to cover U2 but this is a band has been incredibly innovative with technology throughout the years. They have done quite a few things. And they are always kind of trying to take that next step.
NOBLES: Right. They open this concert in Deep Red Tulsa, Oklahoma.
NOBLES: And obviously, they have shown some political imagery in this concert that may not play that well in a place like that. Why did they choose Tulsa and why did they take that risk?
SEGALL: I mean, it was interesting. And they really wanted to talk about this. They say, you know, we could have opened on the coast, you know, and in the show it's imagery of Charlottesville, statements on gun violence, women's movement. And this has always been a notably liberal band and they said we want to get out of -- I'm going to use a tech term, our filter bubble, you know. We don't want to just hear the same things. And they said our shows don't have to be political, but we have messages and we want to hear people and we want them to hear us and we need to go where they are at.
So, you know, I think a larger message of unity in a time of division. And I think that's something this band has always done. And you know, you look at the show. It's biographical. It is also political and it's innovative with technology. And I think that is something, you know, they wanted to do and they wanted that to, you know, they wanted to make a statement by doing that in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And I can tell you from being there, people were very excited. The whole town. Every, every cab driver is talking about it. It was really cool.
NOBLES: And they maybe liberal but not unwilling to work with Republicans. Obviously, George W. Bush, they are on Capitol Hill.
SEGALL: Yes, absolutely.
All right, Laurie. Fascinating. Thank you so much for joining us.
SEGALL: Thank you.
NOBLES: We appreciate it.
Coming up, we are staying on top of breaking news. Flash floods creating a dire situation in Maryland. Evacuations now under way. We will hear from people on the ground.
Stay right there.
[19:59:032] NOBLES: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ryan Nobles in for Ana Cabrera.
And we start with breaking news out of Maryland. That's where the governor has declared a state of emergency for the area around Ellicott City. We are getting reports of buildings collapsing there after torrential downpours caused massive flooding. Water is raging through the streets of downtown. Washing away cars. Swift water rescue teams have also been deployed. Police issue a strong warning to drivers telling them to turn around and not drive through the town's flooded streets.
And eyewitness is on the phone with us now from Ellicott City. Callie Harris has been stranded by the raging waters there all afternoon.