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CRIME AND JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Doctor Under Fire, E.R. Doctor Taunts Patient, Asks If He Is Dead; Worst Girlfriend, Clingy Coed Sabotages Boyfriend`s Dream; Shocking Video; One More Thing; Exclusive Interview With Stephen Nichols. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired June 18, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is "Crime and Justice." Tonight, the jaw

dropping video of a California doctor mocking a young patient with an anxiety attack. Justin Freiman is tracking this story. This just makes

your blood boil when you see how this doctor behave.

JUSTIN FREIMAN, SR. PRODUCER, HLN CNN: Right. The student says he collapsed during basketball practice. He goes in with his anxiety attack,

he is asking for help. And what this doctor starts to tell him will shock you. And we have the video as well as that student.

BANFIELD: I`ve seen the tape. I have to see it a second time to really believe what it is that is happening there. All right, Justin thank you

for that.

Another woman in hot water tonight. The young lady who faked a rejection letter to keep her musician boyfriend from going off to his dream school.

Dave Siegel is covering this one. Faking a letter is like this much. I mean, it`s the tip of the iceberg on what happened to this guy.

DAVE SIEGEL, HLN CORRESPONDENT: It is unbelievable, Ashleigh, her actions changed the course of this gifted young musician`s life. She faked a

letter of acceptance, she changed it to a rejection and she even posed as her boyfriend and crafted a rejection letter from him. She is got a big

price to pay now.

BANFIELD: Yes. I can`t wait until we find out about that. Dave, thank you for that.

Also, another revolting accusation against the man accused of pushing his girlfriend off a cliff. He is reportedly now admitting to having sex with

her little sister. Could their relationship have been a motive for killing the mother of his child?

Plus, the furry burglar who is targeting the same house in Lake Tahoe over and over. And what he has taken from the couple who caught the brazen

break-in on camera. We are going to show you everything he did. Make sure you lock your windows. Even though that may not help.

First I want to take you to California. The emergency room, where a 20- year-old student athlete was taken after he collapsed at a basketball practice, with numb all over, vomiting and suffered from a severe anxiety

attack. But the doctor at the hospital seemed the furthest thing from compassionate. She actually laughed in his face bedside, and she accused

him of just coming in for narcotics, a woman who must have taken a Hippocratic oath to treat her patients the best she can, but whose bedside

manner has now gone viral for unhinged personal treatment that just gets worse and worse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD BARDWELL, FATHER OF SAMUEL BARDWELL: He wasn`t playing basketball when he has it. And when he is going around --

Yes, when he has these, and he is throwing up and he is going in and out of consciousness, I literally saw him go in and out of consciousness.

BETH KEEGSTRA, DOCTOR, EL CAMINO HOSPITAL: He is completely awake and alert right now.

BARDWELL: He is, but if he leaves this hospital, he is going to have another anxiety attack just like that one. Because he is in the same shape

that he was when he came in.

KEEGSTRA: Sure and he doesn`t have Klonopin, because he doesn`t have his, you know, his Klonopin.

SAMUEL BARDWELL, STUDENT WITH ANXIETY ATTACK: It took four hours to get through, so what was I supposed to do?

KEEGSTRA: I`m sorry, sir, you are the least sick of all the people who are here who are dying. There, you picked your head up. Now, don`t try to

tell me you can`t move. Come on, sit up, sit up.

S. BARDWELL: Can`t pick my head up.

KEEGSTRA: Yes, sit up.

S. BARDWELL: What the f-ck.

KEEGSTRA: Sit up. I`m having you sit up.

S. BARDWELL: I can`t get up.

KEEGSTRA: Because you needs to sit up and he won`t let me --

S. BARDWELL: She`s literally yanking my arm.

KEEGSTRA: I`m literally helping you up?

S. BARDWELL: You are helping me, I can`t get up. I can lift my arms to this extent.

KEEGSTRA: OK. Do you want us to wheel you to your house in a gurney?

S. BARDWELL: That is not what I said.

KEEGSTRA: You lift, you just lifted your head just fine.

S. BARDWELL: Yes, I lifted my head and my arms up to here.

KEEGSTRA: Put your hands on here and pull yourself up.

S. BARDWELL: I cannot do that.

KEEGSTRA: Yes, you can.

S. BARDWELL: I cannot do it in the ambulance, I cannot do it now.

KEEGSTRA: You can do it now.

S. BARDWELL: I just tried to inhale, and I even told her I could not inhale.

KEEGSTRA: He can`t inhale, wow, he must be dead. Are you dead, sir? I don`t understand. You are breathing just fine.

BARDWELL: I mean, this is not right, because I`m telling you when you see him --

KEEGSTRA: He is breathing.

BARDWELL: He is breathing. He was labored breathing.

KEEGSTRA: He is not labored in the least. He is got an oxygen saturation that is 100 percent. He is breathing perfectly normally.

BARDWELL: You`re just saying you let him lay down in here and he is going to go back to normal, these pain that he has doesn`t have anything to do

with what`s going on with him, right.

KEEGSTRA: He`s pain that he has is because he worked out and that`s what he told me.

BARDWELL: No. He had -- when he went to the emergency room the last time he had pain.

KEEGSTRA: Uh-huh, and what did they do for it?

BARDWELL: They gave him fluids and gave him something -- a pill, I don`t know what they gave him.

KEEGSTRA: For what?

BARDWELL: For his pain and for the anxiety.

KEEGSTRA: So you need narcotics? Is that what you need?

S. BARDWELL: Here we go.

BARDWELL: Do you need narcotics?

S. BARDWELL: Did I say narcotics? I just need pain reliever and anxiety medication. Because I`m in pain and I have anxiety. I said nothing about

narcotics.

KEEGSTRA: And you just told me that this was not an anxiety attack, that this was something totally different.

[18:05:05] S. BARDWELL: If I could get up off this chair, I really would.

KEEGSTRA: Yes. You really should, because this is ridiculous.

S. BARDWELL: I can`t.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So this is the doctor, Beth Keegstra, M.D, and Dr. Keegstra she is no longer working in that emergency room. And we haven`t heard anything

from her despite our attempts to connect, but the hospital has issued a statement, and it`s pretty clear. They`re saying our contracted provider

for emergency services, Virtuity/California Emergency Physicians, has been notified to permanently remove this physician from the list of approved

physicians assigned to provide emergency care at our hospitals. And that is not all. The statement goes on to say, a patient who visited the

emergency department at our Los Gastos campus had an interaction with a physician whose demeanor was unprofessional, and not the standard we

require of all who provide care through El Camino Hospital. Joining me now on the phone, Samuel Bardwell. His was the patient being taunted bedside

by that doctor during the trip to the E.R. Donald Bardwell, Samuel`s father who very wisely decided to roll tape. Dr. Devi Nampiaparampil, did

I say it right? Nampiaparampil?

DR. DEVI NAMPIAPARAMPIL, CLINICAL ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Nampiaparampil. Close.

BANFIELD: Nampiaparampil, sorry. Nampiaparampil, I am going to practice is a clinical associate professor at NYU School of medicine and defense

attorney, Brian Claypool is with me as well. Samuel, let me begin with you, if I can. First and foremost, how are you doing? Are you OK today?

S. BARDWELL: I`m all right. I mean, throughout the week that it`s been, it`s been seven days, I`m still -- I can still feel it. You know what I

mean? I`ve been through emergency room visits before, but nothing like that before ever. So, I mean, the day after I had to call in to school,

call in to work, e-mail my professors. It was very inconvenient for me. You know, I have a busy schedule. I play basketball also. So it was just

inconvenient. I`m not the person, you know, to ever miss anything.

So I cannot lift my body out of bed the next day. They didn`t -- they left me out of there with no help. So, I mean, today, I mean, it is just, how

go by it, my body has to cure itself by itself, day by day. So today, I mean, I`m still probably on a scale from one to ten, I`m still at like a

five, because I mean the day after I was still at a ten. That is why I couldn`t go to work or couldn`t go to school. So, she messed me up pretty

bad and left me out of there. I mean, she even left saying, you know, put him in an I.V. and get him the hell out of here.

BANFIELD: That was the last thing, put him on an I.V. and get him the hell -- can I ask you Samuel, how long were you in that condition where you felt

you could not sit up and yet you could not get this doctor to, I don`t know, at least listen to what your concerns were without debate and

argument? How long were you in that circumstance that we see you in the video?

S. BARDWELL: It was, I believe, four hours, but it never ended. I mean, because she -- like I said, she left me there saying put him in an I.V. and

get him the hell out of here. And then after that, I was still in pain. You know what I mean? I was still in so much agonizing pain. On a scale

from one to ten, I was at a ten. And I had to get myself off of the bed inch by inch myself. No one was helping me. And, you know, my dad was

helping me a little bit, but it was just -- you know, it even hurt to touch me. She even yanked my arm which made it even worse, but I had to get into

a wheelchair. And even on the way out she was still mugging me. Like she just wanted to get me out of there still. She was still giggling and

laughing after the whole incident. She thought it was a joke. She thought, you know, she thought she had a great start to her shift, I guess.

BANFIELD: So let Donald, let me ask you, as Samuel`s dad, I don`t know how you kept your composure. I think I would have reached across that gurney

and strangled her for speaking to my child that way. My child, who had -- let me just remind our viewers, had vomited, felt numb, and collapsed

outside of basketball practice. Previously diagnosed with anxiety. And post-traumatic stress disorder. Has been prescribed Klonopin in the past.

So, clearly someone with a -- like a clear medical history. How did you keep your cool, and just decide to do what you did, which was roll tape?

BARDWELL: Basically I kept feeling like if I said anything that would upset her any further, then we would be asked to leave the hospital. And I

just didn`t want him to die, leaving the hospital. Because I have seen him in those conditions where like this time I didn`t see him, because it

happened at school.

[18:10:0] But previously I have seen him. I`ve been there before he was taken to the hospital. And I saw him, you know, throwing up. I saw his

eyes roll back in his head. And I saw him shake violently. And so I knew that all these symptoms that he was saying were true. And I just wanted --

my goal was to just have him examined. Because I wasn`t even sure if what had happened was even related to anxiety. I didn`t really know what was

going on. So I was hoping that he was going to get some kind of examination to at least try to see if there was something further that was

going on or anything.

And I felt like if I said the wrong thing that we were going to be asked to leave. I felt like she was fishing for me to be able to say something so

she would have a reason to act the way she was. So I didn`t want to give her that. So, ultimately I just tried to play it cool. Because I thought,

well, we were trying -- all I wanted was my son to be seen. I had no idea that I was going to have to beg for it, you know.

BANFIELD: Yes, I tell you what, I`ve got to be honest with you, Donald, the whole time I watched this, I kept wondering when is Donald, at the time

I didn`t know your name, but when is that father going to say, excuse me, but may we have another doctor, please, may we see someone else? We are

clearly not getting anywhere. But you were just so patient. And I want to play a little bit more from your tape. I just need to explain to our

viewers that the video becomes sort of frozen, but you can hear the entire dialogue between the Bardwell`s and this doctor. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARDWELL: He is not --

KEEGSTRA: And I`m sorry because, you know, I came in here wanting to help you. And you`re just -- you`re turning your story around, you`re changing

your story -- yes, you are, you`re making all kinds of -- you`re saying one thing and you are telling me another thing.

BARDWELL: Like you?

KEEGSTRA: Huh?

S. BARDWELL: Sometimes --

KEEGSTRA: What? I`m not saying -- I`m not changing anything.

S. BARDWELL: You`re not?

KEEGSTRA: No. I`m not changing anything different than what I`ve said the whole time.

S. BARDWELL: Like me.

KEEGSTRA: No. You have changed your story every (BEEP) time.

BARDWELL: Whoa.

KEEGSTRA: Yes, that is how pissed off you`ve gotten me. OK?

S. BARDWELL: I didn`t do anything.

KEEGSTRA: Yes, you did. So, put an I.V. in him, give him a liter of fluid, then we`ll get him out of here. That is what he says he needs. He

is obviously a doctor and he knows what he needs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Doctor Nampiaparampil, first of all, just your overall reaction. And I want to be clear, we`ve only seen a part of what was on tape. We

haven`t seen everything that led up to it and what led out of it. But just from what you`ve seen, the four minutes or so of tape that you`ve seen.

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: I mean, it`s unacceptable, this type of behavior is completely unacceptable.

BANFIELD: There`s just no defense, no excuse, nothing here.

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: Not in my opinion, I mean, on top of the lack of professionalism, it`s also an abuse of power, you have somebody coming in

for help, and this is the person they`re turning to.

BANFIELD: Watch her pull at him. Sit up, and he says I can`t, she says yes, you can, and she starts pulling.

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: I`m very sorry that both the father and son had to go through this. This is a medical professional right? Some of the things

that kind of, you know that kind of struck me is that just as Mr. Bardwell said that how do you know for sure this is anxiety versus something going

on with, you know, his son`s heart, right, or his son`s lungs? So these are things that should be looked at.

BANFIELD: By the way, she -- there was something telling at the beginning. She barked at this patient, saying you`re the least sick person who came in

here today, almost as though she was angry that others in the waiting room may have deserved more care, but in an E.R, you know, there`s a system

whereby you get treatment.

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: Exactly. We`re not comparing one patient to another in terms of how they feel, right? You might see someone who`s maybe more

immediately sick first. Some other folks may have to wait. But at the same time, you know, there are things that are being reported just in the

larger context about the emergency room and physician burnout. So this seems to be an area. I am not saying that is an excuse, but about 65

percent of E.R. Physicians have reported burnout.

BANFIELD: S, some of them also have this fear that anybody who`s coming in is at risk for being a narcotics shopper, feigning all sorts of conditions

so they can get -- we`re in a crisis in this country.

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: That is true.

BANFIELD: An opioid crisis whereby anybody will say and fake anything. Now, it sounded to me like Samuel Bardwell has quite a history. And his

dad was there to sort of be the arbiter of what had happened.

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: Well, and there are ways to check on this, right. So one option is to ask the person for medical records, or if something can be

sent. Now days we have e-mails.

BANFIELD: By the way your dad is with you, your dad is not going to -- typically, he is not the guy who`s there saying let`s go cheat the system

and fake a collapse of.

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: If you have a bottle of pills from the past. Right, so this was an issue where they couldn`t get to the pharmacy in time. So if

you have the old one, you have the prescribing physician`s name, you can also check in the system. There are ways to know.

[18:15:00] BANFIELD: They even said when she suggested, oh, I get it, you`re here for some narcotics.

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: Oh, yes.

BANFIELD: And I could hear Samuel saying, here we go, like, that is obviously what she thinks of me.

You could hear him clearly saying that is not what I`m here for.

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: That is true. I mean, either way, he has to be treated for the anxiety right, or make sure there`s nothing else going on. Either

way, the person has to be treated with respect, right, but at the same time it`s not like she had to make a decision with no information at all. You

can check medical records, you can check to what has been prescribed in the past from the pharmacy and then you can treat the patient as you should.

BANFIELD: Let`s not even go to all the s-bombs and f-bombs and all the rest. You know, Brian Claypool, jump in on this, if you will. That video

is pretty clear. Is it pretty damning?

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Ashleigh, thanks for having me back. Always nice to see you. This is really personal to me because as you know

I survived the Las Vegas shooting. In fact, I talked to you within, you know, a few hours after that shooting. So I`ve been diagnosed with PTSD.

And I have now an anxiety disorder that I`m coping with. That I have to tell you, doing this segment, when I saw that tape, I have heart

palpitations. I have heart palpitations now watching that tape. It is so demeaning to Mr. Bardwell that this alleged doctor minimizes his condition.

PTSD is real. His anxiety is real. I woke up a few weeks ago in the middle of the night with an anxiety attack. I had trouble breathing. I

had to run outside my house. I almost ran down to street to the fire station. This is real stuff. And to see it, it purported doctor treat

this young man like a piece of meat is criminal. Why are the prosecutors not charging her with criminal assault and battery for grabbing his arm,

and trying to drag him out of that bed?

BANFIELD: I mean, all of it looks very, very uncomfortable. I did mention before, we have not seen what happened leading up to the tape, leading out

of the tape and context is always very important as well. What is on the tape, without question, is troubling. And, you know, I tried to look for

the defense of this doctor in saying what you said, Doctor Devi, is exhaustion, those who come in narcotics shopping and all these

frustrations, but ultimately, just being human, she seemed to fall below the base level of just sort of being human.

I have to leave it there, but Samuel, I hope you`re going to be Ok. I hope you`re feeling better. And thank you to you and your dad Donald for coming

on and sharing this story with us. Dr. Devi thank you for your expertise and Brian I am going to ask you to stick around if you will. I`ve got a

lot of other stories I need you to weigh in on, like this one.

When a young and extremely talented musician has his budding career completely derailed by a conspiring girlfriend by sending e-mails. What

kind of damages do you think he should be entitled to? You`re going to be shocked at what happened. It`s next.

[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: When Eric Abramovitz applied to a Colburn Conservatory of Music, he was just one of two -- two clarinet players to be sent and accepted. To

say he is talented, that is an understatement. He was a talented undergrad. He was a musician who was simply enthralled, all of those who

listened to him, in particular the prestigious conservatory where he had been offered a full scholarship. And that wasn`t small. It was about

$50,000 a year. And then on top of that he was going to be studying under a world famous clarinet teacher. So talk about achieving your dream at

such a young age, right?

Just one problem. Eric did not get that acceptance letter. He got something else. He got a rejection letter, but the rejection letter was a

fake. It was a counter fit letter that was crafted with a twisted college girlfriend. A twisted girlfriend who happened to have access to Eric`s e-

mails and wanted to keep access to Eric.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC ABRAMOVITZ, EMAIL HACKED BY GIRFRIEND: Me and my friends were trying, you know, to figure out who could have done this. I was thinking around

this time maybe it was some clarinetist out there who is computer savvy, who wanted my (inaudible). Sometimes our friends started to guess maybe it

was Jen, and I was still in denial at that point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

So Eric wouldn`t even realize that he`d been treated out of a life-changing education and future until two years later. Because that is when he was

auditioning for grad school. And he had chosen another prestigious institution, the University of Southern California. And wouldn`t you know

it? Remember that world famous clarinet teacher I told you about? The one who accepted him the first time around? Well, turns out that guy was also

teaching at the conservatory where Eric applied for grad school, and also happened to be present for his audition. A coincidence that blew open the

whole mess. The scheme that nearly flat lined Eric`s success.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[18:25:07] ABRAMOVITZ: He said, you rejected me. And I said you rejected me. And we kind of went back and forth, the two of us accusing each other

of rejecting each other. It was a very confusing encounter, but I still wasn`t close to knowing the extent of what had happened just from that

discussion with him, but that started getting the gears turning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So here`s the weird twist to all of this. It`s that Eric and his now ex-girlfriend were together at the time that all this happened, six

months later they ended up breaking up. That is six months after she`d intercepted the acceptance letter. So they were apart, right? Now, but

she is now still part of his life because she has just been hit with a massive judgment. She has to pay for all of the damage that she has caused

his career, which a Judge has just determined adds up to about $265,000. And we`re not talking musical notes. Joining me now is Samantha Schmidt, a

reporter for the Washington Post, also Marshall Reinhart, attorney for Eric Abramovitz and defense attorney Brian Claypool is still with me. Samantha,

let me start with you, how did this whole story sort of get broken wide open?

SAMANTHA SCHMIDT, REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: Well, once the judgment was made by this Judge in Ontario, Canadian news outlets started picking it up

as well as some American news outlets, and it really caught on. It really struck a chord with people.

BANFIELD: Did you -- I saw what you just did there. Stuck in a chord, I saw what you did. Let us talk a little bit about how this, you know, sort

of all started, because if you think about Eric, we`re seeing him in, you know, one of his online interviews, Eric Abramovitz is 24 years old, and he

meets Jennifer Lee, 24 years old and they are at my rival school in Canada, McGill. Which tells you they should have gone to Queens, but they are at

the McGill, this is where they met. And what happened next? What happened with this love affair?

SCHMIDT: Well, once they had broken up, and, you know, two years after he had been rejected from this dream school. You know, as you said he applied

again and auditioned again with (inaudible). Ask that is when Gilad said, why are you here? You rejected me. He started, you know, trying to think

something clearly must have gone wrong. And he and his friends -- Eric and his friends started trying to think who could have done this? You know,

who could have had access to intercept a rejection letter like this? And he realized that the person who did have the access to his passwords, to

his e-mail was his ex-girlfriend. Because he had been essentially living with her at the time that he was rejected.

BANFIELD: This is Jennifer Lee, the ex-girlfriend. As we`re talking about all this, and how important this school is, and important the college, you

know, professor is, Gilad, I actually want our audience to hear -- to hear Eric play. Because you need to know what a prodigy this guy is, to have

been one of only two people accepted per year to study under this remarkable clarinet instructor. So without further ado, I don`t know if

this is cable network debut, but whatever it is, this is Eric Abramovitz on the clarinet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Samantha, he is really remarkable. It goes without saying. And I don`t know a whole lot, but I know that is good. So he gets this

remarkable opportunity. She crafts -- I think she created an e-mail account. And first of all deleted the acceptance letter that he got before

he ever got to see it, and crafted an e-mail account from that instructor Gilad and sent this crazy e-mail to Eric. And what did the e-mail read

that effectively was the only communication Eric ever thought he got from this prestigious school?

SCHMIDT: Well, it said that he didn`t get in. That he was rejected. And you know, thanks for applying, it was great meeting you. But he didn`t get

it. He was offered an opportunity at the University of Southern California, but it was not going to be all paid through scholarships, he

wasn`t going to be able to afford it.

BANFIELD: Don`t brush over that part. Because she actually pretended to be that instructor, saying sorry you can`t come to my school, but I`ll tell

you what, how about $5,000 at the school next door. And Jennifer Lee knew full well that by lying, and pretending to say those things, he would never

have been able to afford the school next door. Is that correct?

SCHMIDT: Correct. And to make matters worse, she was the one that was consoling him night after night when he thought he was rejected. He was --

she was the shoulder to lean on for him.

[18:30:00]

BANFIELD: In fact, you know, I want to play that moment. This is something that he told BuzzFeed about how understanding he is. I think the reporter

nearly lost her head trying to figure out how Eric could be so kind and honest and understanding given what he`d been through. And this is what

Eric told BuzzFeed. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re still with your girlfriend at the time. Was she like -- how did she handle that news at the time?

ERIC ABRAMOVITZ, CLARINET PLAYER: Yeah, this is possibly the most disturbing thing, that she was the one who was there, like consoling me,

you know. She was the shoulder that I was leaning on. The fact that she was the one that did it is -- oh, I just can`t believe that someone cannot have

an overwhelming amount of guilt. It took me a while to get over and to think that none of that had to happen. It`s kind of crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Canadians are a trip. You are handling this so gracefully.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want (ph) a little bit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am mad for you.

ABRAMOVITZ: I appreciate it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: Crazy Canadians. Yes, I am one of them. Canadians are a trip, and we are somewhat forgiving, but I`m not. I`m as mad as those anchors as

well. I want you to see what Eric -- how Eric started piecing things together with his friends.

Because as understanding as he seems in that interview, he was so understanding he never thought for a moment, even when his friends

suspected that Jennifer Lee, let`s say that name over and over again, Jennifer Lee, Jennifer Lee, Jennifer Lee, even though they thought Jennifer

Lee was behind this scheme, Eric just didn`t want to believe it. Have a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABRAMOVITZ: The first step was going back to the exchange that I had with who I thought at the time was (INAUDIBLE). And I sent the real (INAUDIBLE)

that exchange, just to clarify if he had ever seen that. And he confirmed that he did not see it, and that it was not his e-mail address.

When I found out that the exchange I had with the fake (INAUDIBLE) was not real. He also provided me with an exchange that the school had with me

which I had never seen in my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Marshall Reinhart, as Eric`s attorney, can you please explain to me how he is such a nice and forgiving person? Because most people would

want -- they would go for blood after this.

MARSHALL REINHART, ATTORNEY FOR ERIC ABRAMOVITZ (via telephone): Well, Eric really is a remarkable young man. He`s extremely mature. You have to

keep in mind, it is a couple years after the incident took place. So, to be fair, I don`t think he was quite as forgiving two years ago as he`s feeling

right now.

Plus, he`s been in a long-term relationship with a new girlfriend. And he`s rebuilt the trust that you need in an intimate relationship. And he`s

prepared to move on. And his intention is not to demonize Ms. Lee at all. But he did suffer an actual --

BANFIELD: This is what`s so incredible. Honestly, Marshall, he constantly says I wish no ill will on her or her family. He lost two years of his

life. He was completely hoodwinked by somebody who consoled him after causing it all. I mean, listen, I think most people watching this right now

would find him simply remarkable.

When we come back after the break, I`m going to ask you all three to stay on if you will. When we come back after the break, what the judge had to

say. And we`re going to do a little math on what the judge said Jennifer Lee owed Eric Abramovitz for screwing with him, and I don`t mean in the

biblical sense. Back in a moment.

[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: So, we`re still talking about the young and talented clarinet player who realized two years late that he had been cheated out of a life-

changing education, all because his college girlfriend kept him from seeing his acceptance letter. And then sent him a fake rejection letter in its

place.

Still with me, Samantha Schmidt, the reporter for The Washington Post who`s been following this story. Marshall Reinhart is the attorney for Eric

Abramovitz. And defense attorney Brian Claypool is still with me.

So, Marshall Reinhart, walk me through what happened once Eric finally decided, you know what, I have lost way too much in this whole hoodwinking

thing, I`m taking it to court. What did the judge say?

REINHART (via telephone): Well, the judge was obviously very clear in his condemnation of Ms. Lee`s conduct. That`s no surprise. He understood that,

really, it was quite reprehensible what she did. And then he had to look at the damages that we were seeking.

[18:40:00] There are different heads of damages that we were seeking. One was the financial loss that he suffered. One, as a result of him being

delayed into the workplace because if he the opportunity to study with Ms. Gilad, he probably would have entered the workforce two years earlier.

Plus, there had to be some compensation for the loss of the rare educational opportunity to study with such a distinguished clarinet

pedagogue.

BANFIELD: I like that you sort of did this math. The math -- then you have to tell me if I`m wrong here, because I know there`s a Canadian dollar and

an American dollar difference. But he would have probably earned $150,000 upon graduation per year, so that`s two years, about 300,000. Not to

mention the $50,000 per year scholarship, another 100,000 U.S.

REINHART (via telephone): Right.

BANFIELD: So what figure did the judge ultimately settle on and say, Jennifer Lee, you must pay.

REINHART (via telephone): Well, in Canadian collars, the total amount is 350.

BANFIELD: Two hundred sixty-five in American?

REINHART (via telephone): That comprised two other heads of damages which are only really awarded in exceptional circumstances. And they`re related

damages. One is punitive damages and the other is aggravated damages.

BANFIELD: Right.

REINHART (via telephone): These are only awarded in exceptional circumstances where -- well, with punitive damages, not surprisingly, they

are designed to punish the defendant.

BANFIELD: By the way, punitive damages are way more frequent, shall we say, south of the border here in the U.S. Let me just ask Brian Claypool

real quickly. Jennifer Lee didn`t bother showing up for court, Brian, and so this was default judgment, which means she doesn`t get to argue this any

other time, right? She can`t argue her case. She can`t give a reason. She can`t give a defense anymore. It`s done.

But, you know what, she`s now 24 years old. This happened at age 22. You could effectively say it`s real hard getting blood from a stone. How do you

get blood from a stone?

CLAYPOOL: In the U.S., this judgment against Ms. Lee would be dischargeable if she files for what`s called Chapter 7, which is a consumer

bankruptcy. There`s only a few things that are not dischargeable, such as paying -- if you borrowed money to pay taxes, child support, alimony.

So even though this is a judgment based on fraud, I think Canadian laws are probably the same and mirror the U.S. And if they do, the reality is that

she`s not likely to pay anything on this judgment if she files for bankruptcy.

BANFIELD: Well, you know, I hope somewhere at the border, if she ever wants to do anything musical or any other kind of activity south of the

border, they`ll look and see that she owes somebody. And, you know, oftentimes that can follow you where you least expect it.

Marshall Reinhart, thank you so much for your time. Samantha Schmidt, thanks for being on the show. Brian Claypool, more work for you. You can`t

go anywhere.

You never know what`s going to happen on live TV, right? Sometimes, shows go off without a hitch. And sometimes, shows do not go off without a hitch.

They go dangerously wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Who`s going to win this battle of the lumberjacks? That`s going to be up next.

BANFIELD (voice over): That`s what happened behind that target. That`s an ax. All fun and games until someone gets hit by an ax. What happened next?

That`s next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: One of the compelling things about live TV shows like this one is that anything can happen, and that you should expect the unexpected.

Like that. Very funny. Great. Hilarious. Sometimes, though, that`s adorable.

But things go actually very, very wrong. And in some cases, it`s not cute and light, like that paper. It`s actually dangerous. I`m going to tell you

about a West Point drummer. He says that his trouble began during an incident that was caught on live TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who`s going to win this battle of the lumberjacks? That`s going to be up next.

BANFIELD (voice over): That`s what happened when that axe went over the target. And that is serious. That`s a double-bladed axe coming at that

drummer, hitting him in the arm. This happened during a flag day segment on Fox & Friends back in 2015.

Fox News host Pete Hegseth through the axe at the target, but accidentally hit Jeff Prosperie as you can see clearly in this video. Over it goes, and

there behind the target. Prosperie was performing this drum solo when it happened. He is now suing Pete Hegseth and the network, citing negligence.

He says that so-called target was placed in an area that put pedestrians and others, quote, in the path of peril. Prosperie said he has suffered

pain, disability, disfigurement, and loss of body function. In a statement to us, Fox News said the incident was unfortunate and completely

unintentional.

[18:50:00] They go on to say that Prosperie actually declined medical assistance and compensation after this happened. And Fox News says it

hasn`t spoken to Prosperie since 2015, although a lawyer for the drummer says that Fox`s statement contains some inaccuracies.

I want to bring in defense attorney Brian Claypool. So, Brian, how do you see this? Does it matter who says what and when when you have video showing

that happened?

CLAYPOOL: Well, first of all, I want to tell you, there is no red buzzer where I`m taping right now for America`s got talent because I would hit

that buzzer, and I would tell that anchor that he`s off the show because that was a terrible throwing of the ax. But putting that aside --

BANFIELD: Is he responsible, though? I mean, you know, he`s got a show to do. He was told, you know, throw this axe at that target. He wasn`t an axe

thrower by trade. It went wrong. Is that his fault?

CLAYPOOL: Well, it could be the producers of the show. The key issue in a case, Ashleigh, is what did they tell this gentleman who`s playing the

drums in the clip? Did they tell those three gentlemen there, look, this guy is going to be throwing an axe and you`re standing right behind the

target, so you better be careful.

If they told them that and he still stood there and he got hit, then he`s going to be charged with what`s called comparative fault in a civil court.

But if they didn`t tell these guys anything and they didn`t know that he was throwing that axe and it goes above the target, and he gets hit --

BANFIELD: Can I ask you something?

CLAYPOOL: Yeah.

BANFIELD: Let`s say the producers of the TV show said, hey you three stand here because we`re going live shortly. And they do as they`re told, even

though they seem to see something is going on behind that big wooden thing. They don`t see a target. They`re looking from the other side. Is that their

fault that they agreed to stand there?

CLAYPOOL: No, under that fact scenario you gave me, then Fox would be responsible for the injury. But to me, the bigger issue in this case is

going to be what really are the true injuries? This young man posted on Facebook a day or two after this incident --

BANFIELD: I`ll tell you exactly, a couple of days later, I was hit by an axe while performing a drum solo live on national TV, words I never

imagined saying, I am thankful to God that the double-sided blade only hit broadside on the outer elbow with significant impact and a couple of cuts

as it fell along my wrist. It could have been much worse or fatal. Focusing on full physical and emotional recovery.

That`s a couple days after it happened. So that`s sort of extemporaneous, right?

CLAYPOOL: Yeah, that`s Exhibit A for "Fox & Friends" if this goes to trial. They are going to argue that, look --

BANFIELD: It will be against "Fox and Friends," I would think, right?

CLAYPOOL: No. This Facebook post by this young man. He`s basically saying that he wasn`t hurt that bad. That it grazed his --

BANFIELD: It sounds like he is. I had significant impact with cuts as it fell along my wrist. I`m focusing on full physical and emotional recovery.

CLAYPOOL: I didn`t read it that way. We need to see the medical records. For example, did he treat at the emergency room. Has he had any surgeries?

Does he have any permanent scarring? Proof`s in the pudding.

BANFIELD: Fox said that he declined an ambulance. But he said I declined an ambulance because I wanted to get treatment at West Point. And Fox also

said he didn`t want any medical assistance. He said he was OK. Declined compensation.

They said they haven`t heard from him since 2015. But like I said, his lawyer says a couple things they could argue about. I have to leave that

one there, Brian. Don`t go anywhere, though.

CLAYPOOL: Yeah.

BANFIELD: I have a really great story coming up next. You know, did you ever watch "Yogi Bear" as a kid? Loved it. He always said he was swiping

picnic baskets. I got this guy for you. Big guy going straight to the source. No picnic basket. He goes right to the kitchen. And not once

either. That`s next.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Got one more thing for you tonight. Some burglars are bolder than others. But this guy, seven feet on his hind -- look at those, my god,

300-pound bear took the cake and anything else he could find to munch on, when he squeezed himself through a small kitchen window in Lake Tahoe.

The CNN affiliate KLOO says that the homeowners were gone for about an hour when this little yogi wanna be broke in and it is not the first time that

this bandit has struck there. Last year, he busted down the front door to get in the very same house.

And this reporter is here to tell you, it`s not unfamiliar. Happened to me. There in the kitchen, through the trash compactor from one side of the room

to the other, scared off by my 80 plus-year-old step dad, scaring him with a shotgun. Off he went. That`s the way it happens when you live in the

hinterland. Next hour of "Crime & Justice" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Where on the trail did she fall?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): I don`t know. I think about a mile off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): He`s already done his time for his girlfriend`s mysterious cliff death.

[19:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He told my mother and my sister that he`s either going to give me a ring or throw me off the cliff, ha, ha.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): But she may not have been his only victim.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She left me. Then went for her (ph) sister.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Because tonight he is admitting to sex with her little sister.

[19:00:00]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know it`s illegal to have sex with a minor?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I know. I know it`s illegal in Oregon.

BANFIELD: Finally, is this the reason he let this beautiful model plunge to her death?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He told (bleep) the baby would forgive her mother within just a matter of a short time. And that they could be a family, the

three of them.

BANFIELD: A talented young musician realizes years too late that he was blocked from the school-of his dreams.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were they going to do at that point? They didn`t have a time machine for me.

BANFIELD: Not by the admission board, but by his sabotaging girlfriend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had been duped.

BANFIELD: Why did she delete his acceptance and fake a rejection letter?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She still would have been the last person that I would have suspected.

BANFIELD: Guess what it`s going to cost her now?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield.

Welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.

People who are accused of murder don`t always have the cleanest track records. And usually, all of that comes out in court, every detail of the

dark past. But sometimes the crimes take years to come to light, as we are learning with Stephen Nichols.

He went to jail for pushes his girlfriend Rhonda off a cliff where she fell to her death. It happened on a rainy day hike in Oregon. And to be clear,

Steven did not serve any time for murder. Because he pleaded guilty to criminally negligent homicide. And he is always insisted Rhonda slipped.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN NICHOLS, ACCUSED OF PUSHING GIRLFRIEND OFF CLIFF: I hiked down and got her. I don`t know. (INAUDIBLE). I`m freezing. Would you please send

someone?

I felt drained and I felt like I was freezing to death. I would never been that cold before.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So she fell off of the trail down a cliff and then you went down the cliff and pulled her -- brought her back up onto the

trail?

NICHOLS: No, she is dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Nichols spent two years behind bars for his girlfriend`s death. And now he is out. But tonight, in an interview with Investigation

Discovery he is admitting to something else, a crime that happened even before Rhonda died, another crime. That could explain why he might have

killed her.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you first started dating Rhonda, were you also attracted to her younger sister?

NICHOLS: I hadn`t met her sister until three months later.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you had sex with (bleep).

NICHOLS: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What were you thinking?

NICHOLS: I wasn`t. It was a very stupid decision.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you know it was illegal to have sex with a minor?

NICHOLS: Yes, I know. I know it`s illegal in Oregon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you did it anyway?

NICHOLS: Correct.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BANFIELD: Yes, it`s illegal in a lot of other states too. But the tough part about this confession is we are hearing it from a free man and Mr.

Nichols is going to stay a free man because just as he paid the piper for what he did to Rhonda or maybe didn`t pay as much as some say he should

have. We are learning that he paid very, very little for what he did to Rhonda`s little sister.

Nichols pleaded guilty nearly two years ago, but only to two counts of sexual abuse, not to the full-on rape of a minor that hen is admitting to

on TV. And since he was already behind bars for Rhonda`s death, he actually got off on time served.

Joining me now is Maria Elena Salinas, the host of the Real Story which airs tonight at 10:00 p.m. on Investigation Discovery. Also with me, Mike

Arnold, he is a former attorney for Stephen Nichols and author of "Finishing Machine," and defense attorney Brian Claypool is still with me.

So Maria Elena Salinas, great story by the way and a very, very good gets and a very interesting break in a case that I thought was over. This must

be pretty astounding to you to hear these words out of his mouth during the interview. Were you expecting this?

MARIA ELENA SALINAS, HOST, THE REAL STORY ON INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY: I wasn`t expecting most of what he said during the interview. It was a sit

down interview of three hours. And you know, it`s very rare that we have an opportunity to sit face to face with someone who is the actual murder,

who is the person who committed the crime.

My first question to him was, describe yourself and he said I`m narcissistic. So right there you know what to expect for the rest of the

two hours and 59 minutes.

No, I was not expecting it. But remember, he has already been charged. And this was part of a plea deal, like you mentioned before. He pled

guilty to criminally negligent homicide and coercion and also to have had sex with his girlfriend`s younger sister. And he had not admitted that

before, and that was part of the plea deal. So he had to admit it.

[19:05:11] BANFIELD: Yes. And that`s critical. He is not a murderer. By law, he is absolutely not a murder. He pled to criminally negligent

homicide. And then also not a rapist because he pled to sexual assault and now is saying that he full on had sex with a 16-year-old. And that would

be, you know, a different kind of crime. But what`s fascinating is that he`s so cavalier about offering that to you. He didn`t think for a moment.

He didn`t skip a beat. He just said, yes, I did it, that`s what happened and I know it was wrong. But this is what he said to CBS News when he was

asked by Pierre Van Sant (ph) about this exact issue, the issue of the little sister. This is what he said then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have sex with her?

NICHOLS: No. I`m like, can I take a plea and just say it never happened, and I was told later, nope, in order to pass the sex offender treatment you

have to admit that. I became desperate. I wanted my daughter back. You will be amazed at what you`re willing to sign to stay out of prison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Maria, that`s the exact opposite of what he told you.

SALINAS: Exactly. And this is even after he had been convicted of this crime. So I think he was ready to talk. And I think he was very candid

and -- during the conversation. I don`t think he necessarily thought it was going to have any kind of consequences. But, you know, here we are

talking about how this man actually admitted to having sex with a minor.

And interesting when he says, well, yes, it`s not legal here in Oregon. Sort of like justifying it. If I had been in another state, it would have

been legal. But the interesting thing about this is that it`s kind of indirectly tied or maybe directly tied to the murder of his sister -- or to

the death of her sister.

BANFIELD: The death, yes, technically, yes. However you look at it, he`s responsible for the death. He is the criminally negligent homicide -- how

do you give him a verb? He pled to only that? And he will never be considered a murder, at least by the criminal justice system.

I have a question for you, though -- go ahead.

SALINAS: I was saying that besides the fact that he had sex with this young woman, he had also allegedly told her that you and I can always be a

couple, and take care of the baby girl, and the baby girl after a few months.

BANFIELD: That`s where I was going.

SALINAS: She will not even realize or remember who her mother is because you look like her.

BANFIELD: That`s where I was going. Because in your piece that`s airing tonight, you speak with a woman named Dardie Robinson, who is an

investigative paralegal who I think, you know, says I speak on behalf of the baby daughter that they shared together, when`s now nine years old.

And what she said was chilling. I want to play that moment and ask you on the other side about it. Have a look.

SALINAS: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SALINAS: After Rhonda died, what did Steve tell (bleep).

DARDIE ROBINSON, INVESTIGATIVE PARALEGAL: He told (bleep) that she was a dead ringer for her sister, and that the baby would forget her mother

within just a matter of a short time. And that they could be a family, the three of them.

SALINAS: This series of events would lead people to think that you killed one sister to be with the other sister.

NICHOLS: You can believe whatever you want. Some people are going to believe that I`m innocent. Some are going to think I`m guilty. So believe

what you want to believe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Maria, that`s shocking. First of all, that there was no intention right off the bat to say, absolutely not. That`s not at all what

I did. It was like, you know what? Is what it is. Say what you will. It just seemed very uncomfortable. But this notion that this Dardie Robinson

said that her baby sister was told by Stephen Nichols that their baby was so young he would forget that mother, her older sister, and the eventually

the two of them could have a life together. Where did she find that? How is she germane to the facts of the story, this Dardie Robinson? Where she

get that --?

SALINAS: Well, Dardie Robinson got very involved since the beginning. Like you said, she is an investigative paralegal. She got very interested

in the story, in the case, very early on. And in fact she is the one that actually was able to get the indictment. She cared very much about the

child, about the family. And after he was able to get off the hook, and move to China, there were no charges because it was also consensual

evidence. So they weren`t able to go to trial.

She is the one that together with a new assistant da was able to gather all the information and present it to a grand jury. It was a grand jury who

finally indicted him. And then, of course, they had to figure out a way to bring him from China because he had left to China with the little girl to

get him back into the U.S. and be able to arrest him.

So she is just someone who got very, very interested in this story and really helped to break the case. I mean, he is not a murderer. And he

didn`t go to jail. And he -- he was in jail 14 months awaiting trial. And when he -- when the plea deal was agreed upon, that`s when the judge said,

OK, those 14 months will count as his sentence. So he was able to walk free. But he wouldn`t have even gotten that. He wouldn`t be a person with

a criminal record that can`t even leave the state of Oregon if it hadn`t been for the work and the dedication of Dardie Robinson. And also the DA.

[19:10:50] BANFIELD: So can I ask you this little sister, of Rhonda Casto, the victim? In the know Rhonda Casto`s story, she is such a beautiful

model. So much question and obviously so much debate over whether she skipped off the clip or if he shoved her off the cliff and intended to do

it all along. And the little sister has been having sex with her sister`s, you know, baby daddy. Do we know if the little sister continued to have a

relationship with Stephen Nichols?

SALINAS: After -- no, not after her sister died. But it wasn`t just once. They did have a relationship for a while. Now, the interesting thing, and

I can`t understand really why the family didn`t do something about this, but the little sister told her mother and she also told her sister, but her

mother didn`t believe her. And her sister thought that she was jealous and trying to separate her from Stephen.

So, you know, with these types of cases, you always think that they could have been prevented. If somebody had talked. If somebody had taken things

seriously, or, in this case, if some of that evidence would have been able to be used in trial, maybe this guy would be convicted and be behind bars

for life.

BANFIELD: Well, you are on to something there. You know what? You are really on to something there. Because at one point this poor victim Rhonda

said to her own family he is either taking me on a hike to propose or he is taking me to shove me off a cliff which is exactly what happened here.

Here she is. Here is Julia Simmons, the victim`s mom, Rhonda`s mom talking about that admission that her daughter had told her and how they -- well,

they believe now, but maybe didn`t believe it so much then. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIA SIMMONS, RHONDA CASTOR`S MOTHER: We all told him that we believe that Steve pushed her. We said it`s not an accident. She told my mother,

and my sister, that he is either going to give me a ring or throw me off a cliff. Ha, ha. And you know, they made a joke out of it.

SALINAS: Rhonda told members of her family this after the hike, Steve is either going to give me a ring or push me off a cliff. Why would she say

that?

NICHOLS: Simple answer, I don`t think she ever said that, so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It`s chilling.

One quick question for you, Maria. You know, this new development that has been fleshed out by you, the sexual affair between the baby sister, the

teenager, and the convict, does it do away with the original theory of motive in this crime that it was all for the $1 million in insurance money

that Rhonda Casto had taken out? Does it do away with that? Is it part of it? How does the insurance motive now factor in?

SALINAS: Well, it could have been part of the deal too. Maybe he planned to get a million dollars and then live with the little sister. Maybe he

thought that the little sister would go for it. I mean, we don`t know that. We don`t know just how much she is saying and how much truth there

is to that.

Now, according to the family, she wasn`t interested in a life insurance. She was 23 years old. She was just a young girl, Rhonda. And according to

Steven, he says that she is the one that suggested getting a life insurance, a million dollar life insurance just in case anything ever

happened to her, her daughter would be taken care of. I mean, that`s hard to believe because if anything happened to Rhonda, she had a father that

could take care of her, why would Rhonda be concerned about that? The family says that it was his idea.

BANFIELD: Especially a million dollars, you know. We all think about life insurance since we have kids. But a million dollars is a really big

policy.

Hold for a moment, if you will, Maria.

Mike Arnold, if you could jump in with me on this. A former attorney for Stephen Nichols. I got one question. I think it`s a fair question. Why

does he continue to talk?

MIKE ARNOLD, ATTORNEY FOR STEPHEN NICHOLS (on the phone): You know, I can`t speak for him, but I can say that when someone`s been through the

traumatic experience of having a child ripped out of his hands and gone through what he has been through and have been on the brink of losing

everything, having lost his fiance, that people deal with grief and resolution, in odd ways sometimes. I think this is the path he`s chosen.

[19:15:21] BANFIELD: Except for that he`s lying because he is either lying now or he is lying then, which one is it? You are his attorney. You were

his attorney.

ARNOLD: Well, if he says that he had sexual relations with her, then I have no reason to doubt that. I think it`s a side show. This interview

has made me thank God for juries and jury instructions and the fact that tabloid journalism doesn`t dictate a courtroom. So the fact that he didn`t

push her because she slipped and that was proven in the evidence is the story. And the story is why in the world did the government waste all

these resources based upon an author and a paralegal that worked for the law firm that was going to profit from the life insurance dispute.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you -- I understand there`s a lot of criticism of the media these days. And I`m not going to debate that. I think it`s

legitimate at times. But I do believe that Rhonda Casto is not to be made light of. That woman died. And there are mysterious circumstances around

her death. I don`t think it`s tabloid in the least to the man who admitted to criminally negligent homicide and sexual abuse now admitting one of

those charges is actually rape, not sexual abuse, now admitting he lied about that, which makes me wonder if he lied about the criminally

negligence homicide too. I don`t think that`s tabloid to ask that question.

ARNOLD: Yes. The sexual abuse law covers sexual intercourse with a minor. Equivalent to statutory rape charge. But nonetheless, the thing is about

motives and then about physics. Physics says she slipped and fell. And I don`t care what side show motives people claim and what drama people have

in their lives. If someone can be proven -- I could have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that she slipped. Now, given that the other accusations,

and sort of the shady point of view that he can display, that`s not the best --

BANFIELD: It wasn`t the only fact. I appreciate your debate, but I will say that the fire chief certainly had a lot of issues with the forensics,

you know, in the case. It`s for another time. And I hope to have you back. I sure appreciate you coming on.

Mike, thank you. And my thanks as well to Maria Elena Salinas as well.

Also, the real story with Maria Elena Salinas is on "Investigation Discovery." It airs tonight at 10:00 eastern. Thank you both. Do

appreciate it.

Frank stick around.

When a talented musician is on the cusp of a massive career only to have it allegedly derailed completely by a conspiring girlfriend, what kind of

damages do you think could possibly be a solution? Because you are about to find out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:22:50] BANFIELD: When Eric Abromovitz applied to Colburn Conservatory of music, he was just one of two clarinet players to be sent an acceptance

letter. To say he is talented, man, that`s an understatement. He was a talented undergrad. He was a musician who was simply enthralled, all of

those who listened to him, in particular the prestigious conservatory where he had been offered a full scholarship. And that wasn`t small. It was

about $50,000 a year. And then on top of that he was going to be studying under a world famous clarinet teacher. So talk about achieving your dream

at such a young age, right.

Just one problem. Eric did not get that acceptance letter. He got something else. He got a rejection letter. But the rejection letter was a

fake. It was a counterfeit letter that was crafted by a twisted college girlfriend, a twisted girlfriend who happened to have access to Eric`s

emails and wanted to keep access to Eric.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC ABROMOVITZ, EMAIL HACKED BY GIRLFRIEND: Me and my friends were trying, you know, to figure out who could have done this. I was thinking

around this time maybe it was some clarinetist out there who is computer savvy. Who wanted my demise? Some friends started to guess maybe it was

Jen. Jen would do with this. And I was still in denial at that point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So Eric wouldn`t even realize he`d been cheated out of a life- changing education and future until two years later. Because that`s when he was auditioning for grad school.

He had chosen another prestigious institution, the University of Southern California. And wouldn`t you know it? Remember that world famous clarinet

teacher I told you about? The one who accepted him the first time around? Well, turns out that guy was also teaching at the conservatory where Eric

applied for grad school, and also happened to be present for his audition. A coincidence that blew open the whole mess, the scheme that nearly flat-

lined Eric`s success.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[19:25:09] ABROMOVITZ: He said you rejected me. And I said you rejected me. And that kind of back and forth, the two of us accusing each other of

rejecting each other. And it was a very confusing encounter. But I still wasn`t close to knowing the extent of what had happened just from that

discussion with him. But that started getting the gears turning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So here`s the weird twist to all of this. It`s that Eric and his now ex-girlfriend were together at the time that all this happened, six

months later they ended up breaking up. That`s six months after she had intercepted the acceptance letter. So they were apart, right? Now.

But she is now still part of his life because she has just been hit with a massive judgment. She has to pay for all of the damage that she has caused

his career, which a judge has just determined adds up to about $265,000. And we are not talking musical notes.

Joining me now is Samantha Schmidt, reporter for the "Washington Post." Also Marshall Reinhart, attorney for Eric Abromovitz and defense attorney

Brian Claypool is still with me.

Samantha, let me start with you. How did this whole story sort of get broken wide open?

SCHMIDT (via telephone): Well, once the judgment was made by this judge in Ontario, Canadian news outlets started picking it up as well as some

American news outlets, and it really caught on. It really struck a chord with people.

BANFIELD: I saw what you just did there. Struck a chord. I saw what you did.

Let`s talk about how this, you know, sort of all started. Because if you think about Eric, we are seeing him in, you know, one of his online

interviews, Eric Abramovitz is 24 years old. He Jennifer Lee, 24-years-old and they are at my rival`s school at Canada, McGill which tells you they

should have gone to Queen. But they at McGill. This is where they met.

And what happened next? What happened with this love affair?

SCHMIDT: Well, once they had broken up, and, you know, two years after he had been rejected from this dream school. You know, as you said he applied

again and auditioned again with (INAUDIBLE). And that`s when (INAUDIBLE) said, why are you here? You rejected me. And so then he started, you

know, trying to think something clearly must have gone wrong. And he and his friends, Eric and his friends started trying to think who could have

done this, you know? Who could have had access to intercept a rejection letter like this? And he realized that the person who did have the access

to his passwords, to his email was his ex-girlfriend because he had been essentially living with her at the time that he was rejected.

BANFIELD: This is Jennifer Lee, the ex-girlfriend.

And as we are talking about all this and how important this school is and important the college, you know, professor is, (INAUDIBLE), I actually want

our audience to hear -- to hear Eric play. Because you need to know what a prodigy this guy is, to have been one of only two people accepted per year

to study under this remarkable clarinet instructor.

So without further ado, I don`t know if this is his cable network debut, but whatever it is, this is Eric Abramovitz on the clarinet.

(ERIC ABROMOVITZ PLAYING CLARINET)

BANFIELD: Samantha, he is really remarkable. It goes without saying. And I don`t know a whole lot, but I know that is good.

So he gets this remarkable opportunity. She crafts -- I think she created an email account. And first of all deleted the acceptance letter that he

got before he ever got to see it, and crafted an email account from that instructor (INAUDIBLE) and sent this crazy email to Eric.

And what did the email read that effectively was the only communication Eric ever thought he got from this prestigious school?

SCHMIDT: Well, it said that he didn`t get in. That he was rejected. And you know, thanks for applying. It was great meeting you but he didn`t get

it. He was also offered an opportunity at the University of Southern California, but it was not going to be all paid through scholarships, he

wasn`t going to be able to afford it.

BANFIELD: Don`t brush over that part. Because she actually pretended to be that instructor, saying sorry you can`t come to my school. But I will

tell you what, how about $5,000 at the school next door. And Jennifer Lee knew full well that by lying, and pretending to say those things, he would

never have been able to afford the school next door. Is that correct?

[19:30:02]

SCHMIDT: Correct. And to make matters worse, she was the one that was consoling him night after night when he -- when he thought he was rejected.

He was -- she was the shoulder to lean on for him.

BANFIELD: In fact, you know what, I want to play that moment. This is something that he told BuzzFeed about how understanding he is. I think the

reporter nearly lost her head trying to figure out how Eric could be so kind and honest and understanding given what he`d been through. And this

is what Eric told BuzzFeed. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re still with your girlfriend at the time, was she like -- how did she handle that news at the time?

ERIC ABRAMOVITZ, EMAIL HACKED BY GIRLFRIEND: Yes, this is possibly the most disturbing thing that she was the one who was there, like, consoling

me, you know. She was the shoulder that I was leaning on and the fact that she was the one that did it is -- oh, I just can`t believe that someone

cannot have an overwhelming amount of guilt. It took me a while to get over and to think that none of that had to happen. It`s kind of -- it`s

kind of crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You -- Canadians are a trip. You are handling this so gracefully and so --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want a little bit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am mad for you. I wanted to ask you that point --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Crazy Canadians, yes, I`m one of them. Canadians are a trip, and we are somewhat forgiving. But I`m not. I`m as mad as those anchors

as well. I want you to see what Eric -- how Eric started piecing things together with his friends. Because as understanding as he seems in that

interview, he was so understanding he never thought for a moment, even when his friends suspected that Jennifer Lee, let`s just say that name over and

over again, Jennifer Lee, Jennifer Lee, Jennifer Lee, even though they thought Jennifer Lee was behind this scheme, Eric just didn`t want to

believe it. Have a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABRAMOVITZ: The first step was going back to the exchange that I had with who I thought at the time was Yehuda, and I sensed the real Yehuda that

exchange, just to clarify if he had ever seen that, and he confirmed that he did not see it, and that it was not his e-mail address. When I found

out that the exchange I had with the fake Yehuda was not real, he also provided me with an exchange that the school had had with me, which I had

never seen in my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Marshall Reinhart, as Eric`s attorney, can you please explain to me how he is such a nice and forgiving person? Because most people would

want -- they would go for blood after this.

REINHART (via telephone): Well, Eric really is a remarkable young man. He`s extremely mature, and you have to keep in mind, it is a couple years

after the incident took place. So, to be fair, I don`t think he was quite as forgiving two years ago as he`s feeling right now. Plus, he`s been in a

long-term relationship with a new girlfriend and he`s rebuilt the trust that you need in an intimate relationship. And he`s prepared to move on

and his intention is not to demonize Ms. Lee at all. But he did suffer an actual --

BANFIELD: Well, this is what`s so incredible, honestly, Marshall, he constantly says I wish no ill will on her or her family. He lost two years

of his life. He was completely hoodwinked by somebody who consoled him after causing it all. I mean, listen, I think most people watching this

right now would find him simply remarkable.

When we come back after the break, I`m going to ask you all three to stay on if you will. When we come back after the break, what the judge had to

say. And we`re going to do a little math on what the judge said Jennifer Lee owed Eric Abramovitz for screwing with him, and I don`t mean in the

biblical sense. Back in a moment.

[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: So, we`re still talking about the young and talented clarinet player who realized two years late that he had been cheated out of a life-

changing education, all because his college girlfriend kept him from seeing his acceptance letter. And then, sent him a fake rejection letter in its

place.

Still with me, Samantha Schmidt, the reporter for The Washington Post who`s been following this story, Marshall Reinhart is the attorney for Eric

Abramovitz, and Defense Attorney Brian Claypool is still with me. So, Marshall Reinhart, walk me through what happened once Eric finally decided,

you know what, I have lost way too much in this whole hoodwinking thing, I`m taking it to court. What did the judge say?

REINHART: Well, the judge was obviously very clear in his condemnation of Ms. Lee`s conduct and that`s no surprise. He understood that, really, it

was quite reprehensible what she did. And then, he had to look at the damages that we were seeking and there are different heads of damages that

we were seeking.

[19:40:08] One was the financial loss that he suffered. One -- as a result of him being delayed into the workplace because if he had obtained -- if he

has had the opportunity to study with Mr. Gilad, he probably would have entered the workforce two years earlier. Plus, there had to be some

compensation for the loss of the rare educational opportunity to study with such a distinguished clarinet pedagogue.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: I like that you sort of did this math. The math that we -- then you have to tell me if I`m wrong here because I know there`s a Canadian

dollar and an American dollar difference, but -- that he would have probably earned $150,000 upon graduation per year, so that`s two years,

about 300,000. Not to mention the $50,000 per year scholarship, and that`s another 100,000 U.S.

REINHART: Right.

BANFIELD: So, what figure did the judge ultimately settle on and say, Jennifer Lee, you must pay.

REINHART: Well, in Canadian dollars, the total amount was 350.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: 265-ish in American?

REINHART: But that comprised two other heads of damages which are only really awarded in exceptional circumstances, and they`re related damages,

one, is punitive damages and the other is aggravated damages.

BANFIELD: Right.

REINHART: And these are only awarded in exceptional circumstances where -- well, with punitive damages, not surprisingly, they are designed to punish

the defendant.

BANFIELD: And by the way, punitive damages are way more frequent, shall we say, south of the border here in the U.S. Let me just ask Brian Claypool

really quickly. Jennifer Lee didn`t bother showing up for court, Brian, and so this was default judgment, which means, she doesn`t get to argue

this any other time, right? She can`t argue her case. She can`t give a reason, she can`t give a defense anymore. It`s done. But you know what,

she`s now 24 years old. This happened at age 22. You could effectively say it`s real hard getting blood from a stone. How do you get blood from a

stone?

CLAYPOOL: Well, I know in the U.S. that this judgment against Ms. Lee would be dischargeable if she files for what`s called Chapter 7, which is a

consumer bankruptcy. There`s only a few things that are not dischargeable such as paying -- if you borrowed money to pay taxes, child support,

alimony. So, even though this is a judgment based on fraud, I think Canadian laws are probably the same and mirror the U.S., and if they do,

the reality is that she`s not likely to pay anything on this judgment if she files for bankruptcy.

BANFIELD: Well, you know, I hope somewhere at the border, if she ever wants to do anything musical or any other kind of activity south of the

border, they`ll look and see that she owes somebody. And, you know, oftentimes, that can follow you where you least expect it.

Marshall Reinhart, thank you so much for your time. Samantha Schmidt, thanks for being on the show. Brian Claypool, more work for you. You

can`t go anywhere.

You never know what`s going to happen on live T.V. right? Sometimes, shows go off without a hitch and sometimes shows do not go off without a hitch.

They go dangerously wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who`s going to win this battle of the lumberjacks? That`s coming through up next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

That`s what happened behind that target. And that`s an axe. All fun and games until someone gets hit by an axe. What happened next? That`s next.

[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: One of the compelling things about live T.V. shows like this one, is that anything can happen and that you should expect the unexpected.

Like that. Very funny, great, hilarious. Sometimes, though, that`s adorable, but things go actually very, very wrong. And in some cases, it`s

not cute and light like that paper. It`s actually dangerous. I`m going to tell you about a west point drummer. He says that his trouble began during

an incident that was caught on live T.V.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who`s going to win this battle of the lumberjacks? That`s coming through up next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That`s what happens when that axe went over the target. And that is serious. That`s a double-bladed axe coming at that drummer,

hitting him in the arm. This happened during a Flag Day segment on "Fox & Friends" back in 2015. Fox News Host Pete Hegseth threw the axe at the

target but accidentally hit Jeff Prosperie, as you can see clearly in this video. Over it goes and there behind the target.

[19:50:00] Prosperie was performing this drum solo when it happened. He is now suing Pete Hegseth and the network citing negligence. He says that so-

called "target" was placed in an area that put pedestrians and others, quote, in the path of peril. Prosperie says he has suffered pain,

disability, disfigurement, and loss of body function. In a statement to us, Fox News says the incident was unfortunate and completely

unintentional. They go on to say that Prosperie actually declined medical assistance and compensation after this happened. And Fox News says it

hasn`t spoken to Prosperie since 2015. Although, a lawyer for the drummer says that Fox`s statement contained some inaccuracies. I want to bring in

Defense Attorney Brian Claypool. So, Brian, how do you see this? Does it matter who says what and when, when you have video showing that happened?

CLAYPOOL: Well, first of all, I want to tell you, there is no red buzzer in my -- where I`m taping right now for "America`s Got Talent," because I

would hit that buzzer and I would tell that anchor that he`s off the show, because that was a terrible throwing of the axe. But putting that aside --

BANFIELD: Is he responsible, though? I mean, you know, he`s got a show to do and he was told, you know, throw this axe at that target. He wasn`t an

axe thrower by trade and it went wrong. Is that his fault?

CLAYPOOL: Well, it could be the producers of the show. The key issue in the case, Ashleigh, is what did they tell this gentlemen, who`s playing the

drums in the clip? Did they tell those three gentlemen there, look, this guy is going to be throwing an axe and you`re standing right behind the

target, so you better be careful? If they told them that, and he still stood there and he got hit, then he`s going to be charged with what`s

called comparative fault in a civil court, but if they didn`t tell these guys anything and they didn`t know that he was throwing that axe and it

goes above the target, and he gets hit --

BANFIELD: Can I ask you something?

CLAYPOOL: Yes.

BANFIELD: Let`s just say that -- let`s just say that the producers of the T.V. show said, hey, you three, stand here, because we`re going live

shortly, and they do as they`re told, even though they seem to see something is going on behind that big wooden thing, they don`t see a

target. They`re looking from the other side. Is that their fault that they agreed to stand there?

CLAYPOOL: No, under that fact scenario you gave me, then Fox would be responsible for the injury. But to me, the bigger issue in this case is

going to be, what really are the true injuries? This young man posted on Facebook a day or two after this incident --

BANFIELD: You know, let me tell you -- I`ll tell you exactly, a couple of days later, "I was hit by an axe while performing a drum solo live on

national T.V., words I never imagined saying. Thankful to God that the double-sided blade only hit broadside on the outer elbow with significant

impact and a couple of cuts as it fell along my wrist. It could have been much worse or fatal. Focusing on full physical and emotional recovery."

That`s just a couple of days after it happened, so that`s sort of extemporaneous, right?

CLAYPOOL: Yes. Yes, that`s exhibit A for "Fox & Friends" if this goes to trial. They`re going to argue. Look --

BANFIELD: Well, it will be exhibit A against "Fox & Friends," I would think right?

CLAYPOOL: No, this Facebook post by this young man, he`s basically saying that he was not -- he wasn`t hurt that bad. Did it graze his --

BANFIELD: It says that he is!

CLAYPOOL: No, I --

BANFIELD: He said that "I had significant impact with cuts as it fell along my wrist. I`m focusing on full physical and emotional recovery."

CLAYPOOL: Yes, I didn`t -- I didn`t read it that way. I -- we need to see -- we need to see the medical records. For example, did he treat at the

emergency room, has he had any surgeries, does he have any permanent scarring? The proof is going to be in the pudding.

BANFIELD: Well, I tell you what -- and Fox said that he declined an ambulance, but he said, I declined an ambulance because I wanted to get

treatment at West Point. And Fox also said he didn`t want any medical assistance, he said he was OK, declined compensation. They said they

haven`t heard from him since 2015, but like I said, his lawyers says a couple of things they could argue about. I have to leave that one there,

Brian. Don`t go anywhere, though.

CLAYPOOL: Yes.

BANFIELD: I have a really great story coming up next. You know, did you ever watch Yogi Bear as a kid? Loved it! He always said he was swiping

picnic baskets. I`ve got this guy for you. A big guy going straight to the source, no picnic baskets, he`s going right to the kitchen, and not

once, either. That`s next.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight, Yogi Bear always bragged that he was smarter than the average bear. But was he as smart as this guy?

Skipping the picnic basket and going straight to the kitchen counter for his dinner. CNN Affiliate KOLO says the homeowners were gone for about an

hour when this Yogi Wannabe broke in, managing to squeeze his 7 foot, 300- pound frame through a small kitchen window. And by the way, it is not the first time he`s pulled this off. This is lake Tahoe, and this little

bandit has struck twice. Last year, he busted down the front door to get into the very same house. Crafty little fellow. See you back here

tomorrow night, 6:00 Eastern Time. You can listen to our show anytime, download our Podcast on Apple Podcast, iHeart Radio, Stitcher, TuneIn or

wherever you get your podcasts for your CRIME & JUSTICE fix. Thanks for watching, everybody. "INSIDE EVIL WITH CHRIS CUOMO" begins right now.

END