Return to Transcripts main page
Babies and Toddlers Held at "Tender Age" Centers; 192 Now Believed Dead in Indonesian Boat Sinking; Tough Call for OPEC Ministers; Heartbreak and Celebration at the World Cup; Cher Eats Her Words; Trump Signs Order to End Family Separation Policy; Trump Administration Seeks to Detain Families Indefinitely; Hungary Makes It a Crime to Aid Immigrants; Cardinal McCarrick Removed from Public Ministry. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired June 21, 2018 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CYRIL VANIER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): With the stroke of a pen, the U.S. president tries to put an end to the child separation crisis that he created. No word on what is planned for the kids already separated from their parents.
Plus we will talk to a former worker at a children detention center about the conditions at these facilities.
Meantime, the Hungarian government solidified its anti-immigrant stance with a new law punishing those who help migrants.
Thank you for joining us, everyone. I am Cyril Vanier. We are live in the CNN NEWSROOM in Atlanta.
VANIER: Donald Trump is defending his decision to reverse course on separating immigrant children from their parents along the U.S. border with Mexico. At a campaign rally, the president told supporters he had just signed an executive order ending his family separation policy, something he said that for days he didn't have the authority to do.
But he also said he would be as tough as ever on undocumented immigrants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So the Democrats want open borders, let everyone come in. Let everybody come in. We don't care. Let them come in from the Middle East, from all over the place. We don't care.
We are not going to let it happen and by the way, today, I signed an executive order, we're going to keep families together but the border is going to be just as tough as it has been. (END VIDEO CLIP)
VANIER: One thing the president's executive order doesn't mention is what happens to the 2,300 minors already separated from their parents. CNN's Jeff Zeleny reports from the White House.
TRUMP: We're signing an executive order.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump doing tonight what he insisted he could not, stopping the policy of separating migrant families at the U.S. border.
TRUMP: Anybody with a heart would feel very strongly about it. We don't like to see families separated.
ZELENY: In the Oval Office, the president abruptly changing course. Trying to contain an immigration crisis consuming his administration. He signed an executive order to detain parents and children together, if they illegally cross the U.S. border.
TRUMP: We're going to have strong, very strong borders. But we're going to keep the families together. I didn't like the sight or the feeling of families being separated.
ZELENY: But for days, the president and his administration maintained their hands were tied. They said an act of Congress was needed to change a policy roundly criticized for its cruelness.
TRUMP: Can't do it through an executive order.
KIRSTJEN NIELSEN, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Until these loopholes are closed by Congress, it is not possible, as a matter of law, to detain and remove whole family units who arrive illegally in the United States.
SARAH SANDERS, It's Congress' job to change the law. We're calling on them to do exactly that.
ZELENY: But the White House caved to worldwide public pressure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President! Don't you have kids!
ZELENY: Finally swayed by a near revolt inside the Republican Party.
SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R-UT), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: I'm going to try to see that it doesn't continue. We should never play with the lives of these children. ZELENY: Administration officials told CNN these images from the
border and the sounds of wailing children became too much to overcome. And leverage to push a broader immigration bill faded in the controversy.
Sitting at the Resolute Desk today, the president even seemed to acknowledge that he was buckling to public pressure.
TRUMP: We're going to have a lot of happy people.
ZELENY: Yet for much of the day, confusion gripped Washington.
REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We are going to take action to keep families together while we enforce our immigration laws.
ZELENY: But Speaker Paul Ryan and other Republican leaders were caught off-guard by the president's sudden change of heart. By afternoon, they were summoned to the White House. The president made clear it would not entirely erase the zero-tolerance policy of separating children and parents at the border. But rather detain migrant families together.
TRUMP: We have zero-tolerance for people that enter our country illegally.
ZELENY: His words in stark contrast to his fighting mood only hours earlier on Twitter, saying, "It's the Democrats' fault. They won't give us the votes needed to pass good immigration legislation." He added, "But I am working on something. It never ends."
Also not ending was the global outrage over separating migrant families at the border. Pope Francis calling it "immoral" and "contrary to our Catholic values." British Prime Minister Theresa May also expressing disgust, saying she intends to raise it when Trump visits the U.K. next month.
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The pictures of children being held in what appear to be cages are deeply disturbing. This is wrong.
ZELENY: Corporate America also blasting the administration's policy. Apple CEO Tim Cook call it inhumane. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce saying, "This is not who we are and it must end now."
The political crisis finally reaching a tipping point, after a series of grimacing moves by the president's allies. Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, heckled while --
ZELENY (voice-over): -- having dinner at a Mexican restaurant near the White House.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame on Nielsen, shame on Trump!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame on Nielsen, shame on Trump!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame on Nielsen, shame on Trump!
ZELENY: Former Trump campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski dismissing the plight of children and parents being separated in this appearance on FOX News.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I read today about a 10-year-old girl with Down syndrome who was taken from her mother and put in a cage.
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Womp-womp.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I read about a -- did you say "Womp-womp" to a 10- year-old with Down syndrome being taken from her mother?
LEWANDOWSKI: What I said is you can take anything you want --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How dare you!
ZELENY: Appearing on television today, he refused to apologize.
LEWANDOWSKI: An apology? When you cross the border illegally, you have committed a crime and there is accountability for committing crimes and there should be.
ZELENY: The president insisting he still plans to push his hardline immigration proposals and vowed again to build a border wall. But he acknowledged those close to him demanded that he bring this impasse involving children to an end.
TRUMP: Ivanka feels very strongly, my wife feels very strongly about it. I feel very strongly about it.
VANIER: Joining me now is Peter Matthews, a professor of political science at Cypress College.
Peter, Donald Trump has taken plenty and I mean plenty of controversial decisions in the first 1.5 years of his presidency. Usually the criticism really doesn't bother him. In fact, usually he doubles down.
So why did he change his mind on this?
PETER MATTHEWS, CYPRESS COLLEGE: Because this was beyond the pale, Cyril. It certainly appeared that way to a lot of his own supporters. And he had to change his mind because he was concerned that, if he didn't, there could be a huge backlash at the polls in November and his Republican Congress could disappear and become a Democratic one which also means he could face impeachment more readily.
I think he did it on a practical reason. He seemed to be missing a moral compass and making it on ethical decision. He made a more practical political decision from all the words that he's uttered so far. It seems that way.
VANIER: So Peter, that is interesting, because I can't count the number of times on this show in this studio, I have asked, is this the issue that could cost Donald Trump some votes? Time after time and controversial issue after controversial issue.
And you are telling me, of all the issues, it is the one that he actually campaigned on so hard, which is synonymous with Trump. It's being tough on immigration. MATTHEWS: That was for his own election in 2016 and he needs that in 2020 perhaps because he can hold on to that base while the opposition could splinter if there's more than one candidate in the presidential election.
But in the congressional election in November, he has got to worry about one-on-one matches, a Democrat versus Republican usually. The Democrats are winning big time on this issue because they're on the right side of the whole issue. And many Republican voters are also against the president on detaining children.
That is beyond the pale for most Americans, 66 percent oppose that. And the largest number of --
VANIER: A majority of Republicans are in favor.
MATTHEWS: No. Not on detain -- as far as the poll that I saw, it was 56 percent who were against the detention of children -- separation of children -- and about 30-something percent were for it, in the upper 30s.
VANIER: Now Donald Trump blames, as he often does, the Democrats. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Democrats don't care about the impact of uncontrolled migration on your communities, your schools, your hospitals, your jobs. Democrats put illegal immigrants before they put American citizens, what the hell is going on?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VANIER: So that worked for candidate Trump clearly.
Do you think it will continue to work for President Trump?
You started talking about this.
MATTHEWS: No, it won't. I'm looking at the polling numbers and the public opinion, and the vast majority of Americans, 66 percent are against this policy of his and they want to see a humane settlement of the issue and to get to the bottom of it by helping the immigrants resettle here and to basically give them a chance to come in from the cold and come out of the shadows and start working again, as was done under President Reagan in1986 or so.
And you've got to also look at who's the architect of this, Cyril. There is a man named Stephen miller, a very high-level adviser to Donald Trump, especially on this issue. Stephen Miller grew up in Santa Monica, California, in my neighborhood, actually. It was a school that he went to in Santa Monica, where he had a friend in the 6th grade or the 9th grade named Jacob Islas (ph), it was reported in "The New York Times." Islas came out publicly, mentioned this even during the election
campaign, that Stephen Miller, who's attaining his status now in the presidency's advisory board, Stephen Miller told Islas, who is Latino, look, we've been friends for several years now. We're in 9th grade now. I can't be your friend anymore, because you are Latino.
So look at the kind of racist-tinged advisors that he has, not to mention Corey Lewandowski's outrageous comment about wah-wah, regarding a Down syndrome young child who's an immigrant. It was horrible. Look at the people he is surrounding himself with. This is very clear as to where this is coming from.
VANIER: Quick thing, I doubled check, the CNN poll says actually that a majority of Republicans approve of this practice of separating families. So I know there are different polls out there. I just want to point out --
VANIER: -- the CNN one says majority of Republicans were actually in favor of this. Now Trump says he, they, the Republicans, his administration is going to fix the immigration system. Listen to this now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This has been going on for 60 years. Nobody has taken care of it or has the political courage to take care of it. But we are going to take care of it. It has been going on for a long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VANIER: OK, well, you know what? Republicans in control of Congress, they have the White House and they have Congress.
So are they going to pass a law?
MATTHEWS: I really doubt it. We will see tomorrow when they get to vote on both laws and Trump hasn't even come out firmly for one of those two laws or not. And I don't think they can agree on it because the right wing of the party is against giving any kind of help to the DACA students, who want to stay here and be treated legally.
And the moderate wing wants to give help to them in exchange for the funding of the wall of $25 billion, not even one Democrat will vote for that. And the Republicans need in the Senate 60 votes in order to avoid a filibuster. So it's going to be very interesting . I don't think it's going to pass tomorrow but we will have to wait and see.
VANIER: Peter Matthews, always great to get your insights, Peter joining us from Los Angeles. Thank you very much.
MATTHEWS: Thank you, Cyril.
VANIER: President Trump's directed orders attorney general Jeff Sessions to challenge a court settlement called Flores versus Reno. That case says the government cannot keep children with family in detention longer than three weeks while they wait for their day in court.
But New York governor Andrew Cuomo is not buying what the federal government is trying to do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW CUOMO, GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: This executive order, I don't think, does anything of legal significance. I think it is more of a press release than a legal document. And if you read it, it basically says, unless they go to a court and get the court to change what is called the Flores decision, the Flores settlement, which has been a 20-year long court battle, you can't implement this.
That's why, literally, it's just about the press and trying to slow down the press.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VANIER: With us now, criminal defense attorney and civil rights litigator, Brian Claypool.
Brian, welcome back.
Is the president's executive order then legal?
BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY AND CIVIL RIGHTS LITIGATOR: Well, the president's executive order is legal. But the bigger question is, what does it really do?
In my opinion, it is a political paint job. Once you scrape away the paint and look underneath it, there is not much substance to it. The only real thing that has changed in this executive order is one thing: President Trump is now saying that the kids will not be separated from the parents for 21 days.
He is saying no separation of families but that only happens for 21 days. Everything else stays the same. There's still a zero tolerance policy in place. He's still going to prosecute every single illegal immigrant for a federal misdemeanor.
VANIER: We will get back to that in a second. But I want to make this Flores thing clear to our viewers because I think that's critical. The executive order does now say that kids can only stay with their families for 20 days. It doesn't mention a time period. It says they can just stay with their families.
What you are telling us is that there is another law in existence which means, which implies, dictates that they can only stay together for three weeks.
CLAYPOOL: That is a good point. And if you ever lose your job as a journalist, you should be a lawyer because that was well said.
So basically what President Trump did is, he punted on the timeline. He just said the kids won't be separated from the parents consistent with the existing law. He doesn't tell the rest of the country, though, that, under this Flores case, the existing law case says that these kids can only stay with their parents in detention for up to 21 days.
So the big million-dollar question that the whole country and the whole world is going to be looking at is, what is going to happen now on that 22nd day?
Are these kids then going to be separated from their parents?
And in my opinion there is a very strong likelihood that these kids will then be separated again from their parents.
VANIER: There is a three-week clock that starts from the moment families are detained, probably today or tomorrow, pretty much as that executive order was being signed.
What happens to the 2,000 children who have already been separated from their parents and who apparently are not being reunited with them?
CLAYPOOL: That is a great question. That gets to my prior point, which was what's really changed with this executive order?
It doesn't speak to that issue. It doesn't help the parents who have been deported, for example, try to reunite with their kids. And think about this, Cyril. It's real logical. This is a no-brainer.
If a parent has been deported back to El Salvador, how in the world are they ever going to get back to U.S. soil to try to find their kids?
CLAYPOOL: There's nothing in place with our government to help that. I have been a child advocate for 15 years. I have worked with abused children and represented them. I have worked up forensic psychological analysis of kids who've been abandoned and abused.
And I will tell you point blank that this is a form of child abuse. These kids are going to be permanently impacted and traumatized with PTSD for the rest of their lives because of them, their whole lives being put in shambles and their parents being taken away from them. And nobody is talking about that.
And Cyril, one more thing, this could potentially lead to human trafficking of these kids. These kids are ripe for human trafficking in the United States.
VANIER: Brian, you know who agrees with you, if not the PTSD, at least the trauma, it is the American Association of Pediatrics. And they've put out a statement a couple of days ago saying pretty much what you said.
One last thing, the president wants to make illegal immigration a criminal matter. That is what was new about his policy. Before it was a civil matter.
What difference does that make?
Why is it important?
CLAYPOOL: Well, if it is a civil matter, then you don't have to be detained to see a magistrate for a criminal federal misdemeanor and --
CLAYPOOL: -- with a civil matter, basically with President Obama, you would cross the border and then you'd be processed within a couple of days and sent back because it is a civil matter. You don't have to go before a federal judge for a federal misdemeanor.
And that's a good point because what it does is creates a logjam. We don't have enough judges now to handle every person being prosecuted criminally. And that is what makes this 21-day window very unattainable. And that is what leads them to the separation of the kids from the parents.
And by the way, President Trump doesn't have to do this. He could prioritize prosecuting the illegals coming in across the border. Look at their background. Let's focus on gangsters and those with a nefarious background. He doesn't have to prosecute every single illegal immigration crossing the border.
VANIER: And yet that is still the target of the Trump administration. They are actually trying to hit that 100 percent mark of criminal prosecutions. Brian Claypool, thank you very much.
CLAYPOOL: Thanks for having me, Cyril.
VANIER: We have seen how the immigration crisis is playing out in the U.S. Next up, how one European country is adopting its own zero tolerance policy against illegal immigration.
Plus parliamentary relief for Britain's prime minister, the crucial win for Theresa May on Brexit.
VANIER: Hungary's response to the immigration crisis in Europe has been increasingly hardline. Now the Hungarian parliament has gone even further, making it a crime to render basic humanitarian assistance to migrants and refugees.
The new law takes effect in one or two weeks. Hungary already has some of the most heavily fortified borders in Europe. But now someone can actually risk going to jail for helping a migrant to just fill out paperwork or for telling them where to get services in Hungary.
Human rights activists say it marks a low point in the country's history.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Today is World Refugee Day and the Hungarian government, instead of providing protection, has decided to actually not provide protection, but deny protection and actually side with the persecutors.
It starts to persecute even individuals, human rights defenders and others, who assist asylum seekers. I think this is a new low point for Hungary today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VANIER: CNN European affairs commentator Dominic Thomas joins us from Berlin.
Dominic, how did we get to this?
How did we get to a point where a country feels it is a crime to help a migrant seek administrative services or even fill in a form?
DOMINIC THOMAS, CNN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: It really is an extraordinary development. There are similar kinds of laws on the books in different European countries. These, of course, are denounced by human rights organizations, and by the European Union, even, itself.
Hungary, really, this process going in 2015 at the height of what is being called the migrants crisis. This was a country that was disproportionately impacted by flows of migrants crossing into the European Union.
Interestingly enough, most of those migrants ended up moving on to other countries but it certainly, as with so many other European and political context and elections, provided the leadership with an opportunity to really bolster its anti-immigration stance and to galvanize the electorate around that kind of position.
And we really see it as having worked its way out to the absolute extreme in Hungary.
VANIER: Is this popular, this kind of thing, in Hungary?
THOMAS: Yes. (INAUDIBLE) was reelected with a two-thirds majority. He has built and strengthened his position around nativist claims of protecting Hungarians. And this is a country that is, you know, relatively homogeneous compared to countries with very strong histories of immigration like France and Great Britain.
He has been tremendously successful at speaking in these particular terms and especially in taking on proponents of greater immigration and asylum refuge in Hungary. VANIER: You mentioned many of the migrants who passed through Hungary back in 2015 didn't actually stay there.
Does Hungary have many migrants to speak of?
THOMAS: No. In fact, the majority did move on. And it's also well- known, it is an extraordinarily difficult place to get into and is not therefore high on the list for migrants.
Actually, since the height of the migrant crisis, we're down to very small numbers of people now attempting to enter that particular country. And Hungary is taking a strong stance within the European Union even by refusing to take in quotas or allocations or resettlement migrants in that particular country, thereby setting a new low bar and precedent in the European Union and further fracturing countries over these issues.
VANIER: It sounds like they're actually -- they're cracking down on a problem which is a tiny problem, at least in terms of number of people that Hungarians are dealing with there.
How is this going down in the rest of the European Union?
I know that many European countries have been looking with a great deal of skepticism and concern and worry at Viktor Orban.
THOMAS: They have. But at the same time, they are very cautious as to how they tread on this terrain because they have seen so many recent elections either shaped by the question of immigration or Islam or identity, nativism, nationalism.
We certainly see this with the situations that developed in Italy today, the coalition in Austria, Angela Merkel struggling with the CSU part of her coalition party here. And so the move at the moment is really between those who are strictly opposed to any kind of open immigration --
THOMAS: -- policy and those who are looking to the meeting in two weeks' time at the European Union with different heads of state, who will be discussing migration policy and trying to come up with a better coordinated policy that allows for resettlement and takes away what some will call the burden of responsibility from countries in the European Union at the external borders and are the first points of entry for migrants fleeing zones of conflict, poverty and so on.
VANIER: Dominic Thomas, always great to get your insights, thank you.
THOMAS: Thank you, Cyril.
VANIER: A crucial victory for Britain's prime minister and her mission to keep Brexit on track. The House of Lords agreed to the withdrawal bill which repeals the law that allowed the U.K. to join the European bloc in 1973. Some lawmakers wanted a final say on that deal. Instead they accepted
her promise of a meaningful say in negotiations. Pro-E.U. lawmaker Dominic Grieve (ph) originally argued Parliament wasn't given enough control. He reversed himself but complained about the tone of the debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOMINIC GRIEVE, BRITISH MP: We do face some real difficulties at the moment. It's rightly said that those who the gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say there is enough madness around at the moment to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VANIER: Six conservative members of Parliament voted against the bill and more battles are expected over future trade and customs agreements. The U.K.'s date to exit the E.U. next March 29th.
One of the highest ranking American leaders in the Catholic Church has been ordered to stand down from his official duties as the result of sexual abuse allegations against Cardinal Theodore McCarrick dating back decades. CNN's Delia Gallagher reports from Rome.
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: An accusation of sexual abuse against U.S. cardinal Theodore McCarrick dating to some 45 years ago and involving a teenager has been found credible and substantiated, according to an internal church investigation conducted in the archdiocese of New York.
Both the archdiocese of New York and the archdiocese of Washington, D.C., released statements on Wednesday, saying that the Vatican on direct orders of Pope Francis has ordered Cardinal McCarrick to cease the public exercise of his office.
Cardinal McCarrick, who is 87 and now retired, although he does still serve on some Vatican councils, also issued a statement on Wednesday, maintaining his innocence and saying that he had no recollection of the abuse.
However, he says he has fully cooperated with the investigation, which has also been reported to police. A bishop close to the case has told CNN that Cardinal McCarrick intends to appeal the church's finding in a church process and it is unclear whether a civil case may be filed -- Delia Gallagher, CNN, Rome.
VANIER: After the break, a man who used to help immigrant children in the United States says aspects of his job have become morally wrong under President Trump. So he quit. We will speak to him after the break.
[01:30:41] VANIER: Welcome back to the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Cyril Vanier. Let's look at your headlines.
U.S. President Donald Trump has signed an executive order reversing his administration's policy of separating immigrant children from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border. The order does nothing to reunite more than 2,000 minors already taken from their families, however.
In Hungary it will soon be illegal to render aid to undocumented migrants. The Hungarian parliament easily passed legislation on Wednesday to outlaw some basic human rights activity such helping someone fill out paper work. Amnesty International called it a new low noting the measure was adopted on World Refugee Day.
And a crucial victory for British Prime Minister Theresa May after she promised to give lawmakers a meaningful say on the result of Brexit negotiations. The House of Lords have approved a bill to repeal the 1973 law allowing the U.K. to join the E.U. It would also incorporate European Union law into U.K. law on the day Britain leaves the Union.
Despite President Trump's order to stop taking children away from their families at the southern U.S. border more than 2,000 minors have already been swallowed up by the federal immigration system. For now the youngest are detained at three so-called "tender age" detention centers in southern Texas. A fourth facility is being planned in Houston. What happens next is not for them is not clear.
We get more from CNN's Polo Sandoval.
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is a detention facility for the youngest immigrant children being held against their will in a U.S. city. It's a nondescript former private home at the tiny Texas town of Combes 20 miles from the U.S.-Mexico border.
From outside, these black strollers and a small outdoor playground are the only signs of some 60 children ranging in age from infants to 10- years old housed inside. Some may have been forcibly separated from their parents after crossing into the country illegally.
The U.S. government calls it a "tender age" facility, one of at least three in Texas alone. The CEO of Southwest Key, the company that operates the center and others offered his own description.
JUAN SANCHEZ, CEO, SOUTHWEST KEY: I want to make it very, very clear that this is not a detention center. We are licensed by the state of Texas to run a child care facility. And it would be run as a child care facility.
SANDOVAL: CNN and other media outlets have not been allowed to bring cameras inside any of the facilities currently housing minors separated from their families. The government has only given this hand-out video and some photos showing families behind chain-link cages resting on green sleeping pads and wrapped in Mylar blankets. None of the government handout materials show girls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've only seen the boys.
KIRSTEN NIELSEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: I will look into that. I'm not aware of the --
SANDOVAL: CNN spoke to Democratic Texas Congressman Filemon Vela who got a rare glimpse inside one of these centers.
REP. FILEMON VELA (D), TEXAS: The idea you could walk into a facility like this one and see children at the age of eight months or one year who have been taken from their parents and the idea that it is the American government in the year 2018 holding them hostage for whatever ambitions the President may have, it's just abhorrent.
SANDOVAL: Now, as President Trump signs and executive order to keep detained families together, the question is what is next for those who have already been torn apart?
Texas attorney Thelma Garcia represents parents separated from their children.
THELMA GARCIA, TEXAS ATTORNEY: All they do is cry because no one has contact with their children.
SANDOVAL: Heartbroken parents charged under the President's zero- tolerance policy are making up more of Garcia's case load these days.
GARCIA: Before, they would be placed in family facilities where you would have the mothers or the fathers with the children. Now as far as I know, those facilities don't exist.
So where are you going to reunite them? It is going to maybe from a month to two months minimum for them to go through a process.
SANDOVAL: Before they ever hold their child again?
GARCIA: Yes. Yes.
SANDOVAL: Polo Sandoval, CNN -- Combes, Texas.
VANIER: Antar Davidson (ph) used to work with some of these immigrant children -- tell us why you quit.
ANTAR DAVIDSON, FORMER SHELTER WORKER: Basically, I quit as a conscientious objector despite what is being said by the $1.5 million a year salaried CEO that they're great facilities. There was a very noticeable difference and change in the mood over the past -- the last six weeks that I worked there.
[01:35:02] More holds (ph), more traumatized kids and more kids crying for their mothers and the same people making $15 an hour trying to attend to that --
VANIER: You were there back in what April -- that is when you quit?
DAVIDSON: No, I quite June -- June 12 is when I handed in my -- yes, so about two weeks ago.
VANIER: So you experienced those hundreds of children that were separated from their parents.
DAVIDSON: Well, in the facility there were 70 -- it started that there were five of the tender age children prior to the zero-tolerance policy. And over the course of that that he number grew to 70. So that's 70 kids under the age of 12 who were separated from their parents, so that is now a third of the facility. So you can imagine what it is like -- the trauma and the cries and the --
VANIER: Well, you're going to tell us. Well, we would like to hear from you what it was like. First of all, there was a turning point moment for your, I believe.
DAVIDSON: Sure, sure, sure. That was the night when I was told by a shift leader to separate the Brazilian children. They had understood that they were actually being separated into different wings after I think they've been separated from their mother the night before.
And as in hearing this, in sensing that, they clutched each other and the little siblings were saying, please, please, to their brother -- please we want to stay with you. And they called me over.
The shift leader called me over and asked me to translate. They said -- they called me on the radio and said (INAUDIBLE). Tell them that they can't hug. We need you to come over and tell them they can't hug. When I was there, I told them I would as not do that. And that it was against my sensibilities as a human.
VANIER: So you didn't do it?
DAVIDSON: No, thank God I didn't. I told them I couldn't and that began a chain of events where basically a week later I had turned in my resignation. It was --
VANIER: On that moment what happened with those children?
DAVIDSON: Well, those children, they saw the true face of what Southwest Key is about. I mean a shift leader that is telling someone that when there is three kids like this crying and trying not to be separated on their first day there, and she felt that it was necessary to enforce a no-touch policy in this situation.
VANIER: Why? What was the purpose of that?
DAVIDSON: Well, clearly the organization doesn't see these kids as the kids, the troubled kids that they are. It sees them as dollar signs.
VANIER: So at what point did you notice that things were changing? How did that materialize? I understand that was the breaking point. But basically you said you felt the mood changing. DAVIDSON: Sure, over the course of those six weeks there was a stark
change in the population of the facility. Originally it was kids that were a bit older and that knew -- that had come by themselves.
They knew the process. It was an established route of migration over the past five years. So they were prepared for this. They knew what they were getting into. And they had -- actually a lot, many of them had paid and they were instructed they would be in the facility and then maybe reunified.
And so then, they were for that reason, they were more calm. And when the zero-tolerance policy started and the separation started, more and more kids that were coming into the facility that hadn't had that preparation, were much younger, did not intend to go alone and had (INAUDIBLE) and been separated from their parents with no knowledge of where they were.
VANIER: Did they have any contact with their parents? Were they allowed to have that contact? And did they know what was going to happen to them?
DAVIDSON: When I left, information was not forthcoming. Some people found them, some people not. I think what we see -- thankfully we got that executive order passed. I think it was a collective effort of everyone.
VANIER: At the time that you were there.
DAVIDSON: Yes. At the time when I was there, it was not -- some people yes, and some people no. I guess, what I was trying to say is there was a major confusion between all of the different entities -- ICE, and border patrol and our organization.
So there was such confusion that oftentimes no one knew where anyone was and it was like will a week (INAUDIBLE) and then a week we can talk to them. So it was just a big confusion as to who was where.
VANIER: What were the kids telling you or what were they asking you?
DAVIDSON: Well, in the nighttime, you heard the Pro Publica audio of a kid crying. If you go to the infant (ph) area which is where most of the new kids and these little kids where dormed, you would hear that in every other room.
Most of them were telling us, where is my mom. You know, they were crying and you would have to listen to that while making $15 an hour with no benefits. You'd have to listen to constantly kids crying and crying and wondering where their mother is. And it was a really impactful thing and I think anyone that has heard that sound in those halls can really never forget that.
VANIER: One more thing real quick. I should have picked up on this. You said that the organization that you worked essentially at some point started seeing the children as dollar signs. But you work for Southwest Key. They're a nonprofit group.
[01:40:05] DAVIDSON: A nonprofit group with a CEO who has a salary of $1.5 million. And also they just got a package. Their federal tax package is $458 million of taxpayer money. I don't know of very many nonprofit organizations with $100 million in privately owned assets paid for with public funds.
So it is important to use that term nonprofit very loosely because a great -- the entire executive board is profiting greatly from the detention of these youth.
VANIER: Antar Davidson -- thank you very much. You had a unique perspective on what it was like at that very time when the zero- tolerance policy was being enforced in these tender-age centers. You were there.
Thanks for sharing your story with us. Thanks.
DAVIDSON: Thank you. Thanks for having me on. >
VANIER: And we're learning more about that ferry disaster in Indonesia. It's now believed that 192 people perished.
Aisyah Llewellyn has details.
AISYAH LLEWELLYN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am here at Lake Toba in north Sumatra in Indonesia which was the scene of a tragic boat sinking on Monday.
The passenger ferry the Sinar Bangun was traveling from over here, the island of Samosir back to where I am now which is the port of Tigaras and was hit by waves which some survivors say they thought were up three meters high. It then capsized and sank within probably about 20 to 25 minutes.
So far they found about 18 survivors. But the numbers of how many people were actually on the boat keep changing. There was no official manifest so some people say between 80 to 100 passengers even though it only had the capacity for 60.
But as the days goes by, it keeps going up. Some people said 130 people were on board, some people say 180; now perhaps over 200 people. It now looks however as they have only found three victims so far out of perhaps 200 that most of the people who were on the boat are still trapped inside and are probably at the bottom of Lake Toba.
Aisyah Llewellyn -- Lake Toba, Indonesia.
VANIER: Coming up a major decision to be made by OPEC this week. Should oil production be cut in order to control prices?
And Ronaldo steals the spotlight again. See how Portugal's star made history at the World Cup. That's ahead.
[01:42:32] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VANIER: This is a big week for the oil markets. OPEC ministers meet in Vienna on Friday and have a tough decision to make. Should the cartel of oil exporting nations increase productions in order to lower prices?
CNN Money's John Defterios is in the Austrian capital.
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: For 18 months, the major oil producers led by Saudi Arabia and Russia took oil off the market to lift prices. Now they have the tricky game of trying to put it back on to stabilize the price of oil. And there is some resistance from other members of OPEC like Iran.
I sat down with the Iranian oil minister Bijan Zangeneh who doesn't like U.S. intervention.
BIJAN ZANGENEH, IRANIAN OIL MINISTER: The recent situation in the market and the high price is not because of the rebalance between -- mainly rebalance between production, supply, and demand. This situation and the high price caused by the action of President Trump and U.S. administration.
After the speech of President Trump in 8 May, 2018 and withdrawal of U.S. from the nuclear deal with Iran the price jumped $6 during one week. It means the tension, the political tension in the region and the uncertainty in the market created by the political action from U.S. side.
DEFTERIOS: So you could have a solution by the end of business Friday and Saturday which says let's go to 100 percent compliance. There's no reason for arguments, no reason to start a new agreement. This could be the big compromise.
ZANGENEH: Yes. It can be.
DEFTERIOS: How many barrels does that put back on to the market?
ZANGENEH: It depends on the discussion.
DEFTERIOS: The flexibility of 300,000 to 500,000 barrels a day would solve the problem.
DEFTERIOS: You're exporting now about 2.8 million barrels a day. I've read surveys that show because of U.S. secondary sanctions that could drop 300,000 to 500,000 barrels a day by the end of 2018. Do you think they will hit that hard against Iran? ZANGENEH: We try to preserve the level of our (INAUDIBLE). But how,
I cannot say anything more because OPEC and U.S. administration attack against our partners.
DEFTERIOS: But can you preserve those?
ZANGENEH: We try to do it.
DEFTERIOS: Is the President trying to undo the work of Mr. Obama and his agreement of Iran? Or is he targeting specifically Iran in your view? What is the motivation?
ZANGENEH: I think both.
DEFTERIOS: Are they seeking regime change? That's one view of the more conservative arm of the Republican Party. Is that the ultimate motivation and can they succeed?
ZANGENEH: I think it is the biggest mistake that they have. Mr. John Bolton and some others are saying so. They think they can change the regime and era. Very soon, very soon with our resistance they will understand it's impossible.
DEFTERIOS: Why do you say that that it's impossible?
ZANGENEH: Iranian people may have some difficulty. Even by our administration but they won't change the regime. They make up complain about some things, but they don't want to change everything. It is impossible. They will understand it very soon.
DEFTERIOS: Bijan Zangeneh of Iran looking at a potential compromise when it comes to the OPEC, non-OPEC agreement but clearly doesn't like the U.S. intervention when it comes to the OPEC organization or internal affairs back home.
John Defterios, CNN Money -- Vienna.
VANIER: We are on baby watch right now -- we wanted to let you know. New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is at an Auckland hospital where she's expected to give birth at any moment. She's the first pregnant world leader in nearly 30 years. Miss Ardern was elected in October and announced her pregnancy in January via Instagram.
The last leader to give birth while in office was Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto back in 1990.
Now to the World Cup -- Spain moves closer to the last 16 with a hard- won victory over Iran. We'll have highlights from that big match and more. We'll have some Cristiano Ronaldo for you when we return.
[01:49:59] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VANIER: Heart break and celebration in Russia as Uruguay confirms its place in the World Cup knockout stage along with Russia while Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Morocco were all eliminated.
World Sports' Kate Riley joins us. Let's break it down.
The man, the myth, the legend -- I want to ask you about him first -- Cristiano Ronaldo. He is doing super well.
KATE RILEY, CNN WORLD SPORTS: Yes, he is. He is having a really good year, isn't he? And that's where we're starting.
He is just being amazing. Now, the one trophy to have eluded him so far is of course, this World Cup. He is determined to win it with Portugal this year. Not only that, he is in a hurry, of course, to win the golden boot as well after his second game on Wednesday.
He is now the tournament's top scorer at Moscow's Luzhniki Stadium where he incidentally helped win the champion's league with Manchester United a decade ago. They were still taking their seats, Cyril, when CR (INAUDIBLE) launched himself at goal heading home for Portugal after only four minutes. It means that Ronaldo has now scored the two fastest goals at this tournament.
Struck after four minutes against Spain and now leads the tournament with four goals. Whoever said that three is the magic number --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRISTIANO RONALDO, PORTUGAL FORWARD (through translator): The most important thing was to win the game and to get the three points because we know that if we lost, we could have been out. We knew the Morocco would be trying very hard. It was a surprise because they really got the start. They were really going through a lot of moves and they were very strong.
I managed to strike a goal and to make those three points. So I'm very happy and it was beautiful to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RILEY: Yes. Well, we've got three weeks and counting, haven't we? Let's see if he wins the World Cup for Portugal and lifts that trophy on July 16.
VANIER: Tell us now about Spain. They kind of struggled against Iran but then they pulled through.
RILEY: Yes, kind of it but, you know, they've still got three points in the bag. Let's have a look at Group B -- another tight game, like you said, between Spain and Iran in Kazan (ph). Spain won the game. But they were in forgiving mode before kick off.
This was our favorite clip of the day, you'll like this -- Cyril. Look at that. Gerard Pique trying to move a little bird out of the way before the action started. There was only one goal in this one. Diego Costa scoring it -- he did all the hard work. It ricocheted off his leg. Costa now has three goals at this tournament. Iran thought they had won here, a bench clearing moment of jubilation. But sadly for them it wasn't to be. Ref ruled out or off side with confirmation coming from VAR -- that's video assistant referee, of course. That is all she wrote.
But the big highlight to some was this attempt to throw in from Milad Mohammadi. Looked as though it was going to be spectacular, no -- it was just throwing in the end, 1-0 to Spain. Both teams are still in the tournament.
And yes, it was a really disappointing game for Iran but look, you can see the jubilation from some of their fans watching back in Tehran and you can see women there being allowed to watch the game. It really is amazing.
VANIER: I say A for effort for the throw-in, by the way.
RILEY: Right. You like that?
VANIER: Yes. Look at it.
RILEY: You are going to reenact that for us? Maybe not tonight.
VANIER: No. I do the celebration. My seven-year-old does that.
[01:55:01] RILEY: All right.
VANIER: All right. Kate Riley from World Sports -- thank you very much. You get more from Kate throughout the World Cup -- thanks.
Actress and singer Cher is no stranger to speaking her mind, especially about the U.S. president but she paid a heavy and gross price when she couldn't say anything nice about him.
Here is Jeanne Moos.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When it comes to how Cher feels about President Trump -- she has been pretty clear. Calling him a toxic wind bag, which is actually an improvement; she used to simply use a toilet emoji instead of his name. And he's tweeted about Cher's dying career.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Cher is somewhat of a loser. She's lonely, she's unhappy.
MOOS: So maybe it's not surprising that the President's name came up when James Corden brought his show to England where he shot "Carpool Karaoke" with Paul McCartney.
MOOS: And played spill your guts or fill your guts with Cher. She was faced with a choice of answering delicate questions or eating disgusting foods.
JAMES CORDEN, TV HOST: You said Tom Cruise is one of your top five favorite lovers. Who were the other four?
MOOS: Rather than answer that, Cher ate a dried caterpillar. But her next food choice was even worse.
CORDEN: Cow's tongue.
MOOS: And the question was about President Trump.
CORDEN: Say one nice thing about him.
MOOS: Cher considered her options, after all the bad things she said about her nemesis, would she rather eat her words or eat the tongue.
CHER, SINGER: Nothing nice about him. I can't say one nice thing about him.
MOOS: Cat's got her tongue leaving Cher no choice but to eat the cow's tongue.
Jeanne Moos, CNN -- New York.
VANIER: Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Cyril Vanier.
The news continues with Rosemary Church after this short break.
ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Immigration turmoil. The U.S. President tries to put an end to the child separation crisis he created. But no word yet on what's planned for the children already separated from their parents.
Plus a CNN exclusive -- a report from Sudan on the teenager sentenced to --