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Trump's Family Separation Reversal Sparks Confusion; Trump: Order Will Lead To Separation Ultimately; Sessions: We Never Intended To Separate Families; Court Documents: Migrant Children Abused In Detention; Two Koreas Discuss Reuniting Separated Families; Trump And Putin Expected To Meet In July; Trump And Kim Get "Bad Lip Reading" Treatment. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired June 22, 2018 - 00:00   ET





Ahead this hour, from zero tolerance to total chaos. A day after an extremely rare presidential back down, there was confusion stretching from Washington to Mexico on how U.S. laws should be enforced on the southern border. And no clear plan on what to do with more than 2,000 children already taken from their parents.

While on the Korean Peninsula, North and South move closer to allowing family reunions, a sign of warming relations between these two foes.

And undoing the damage, why tensions between the U.S. and its allies may last for years even after Donald Trump has left office.

Hello, everybody. Great to have you with us. I'm John Vause. This is NEWSROOM L.A.

Well, Donald Trump continues to insist he is still as tough as ever when it comes to border security. But emails obtained by CNN from U.S. Border Protection suggest his zero-tolerance policy for undocumented migrants is effectively on hold.

Field offices have been told not to refer any parents for prosecution who cross the border illegally with their children. While the president continued to blame Democrats for all of this, his wife, Melania, visited a detention center in the southern part of Texas. But the president's sharp rhetoric did little to clear up confusion of how the crisis is being handled.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I signed a very good executive order yesterday, but that's only limited no matter how you cut it, it leads to separation ultimately.

(END VIDEO CLIP) VAUSE: Joining me now political commentator and host of "The Mo Kelly Show," Mo Kelly, Republican strategist, Charles Moran, and the president of the Global Policy Institute at Loyola Marymount University, Michael Genovese. Good to have you both.

OK. So, despite, the emails that have gone out, the directive and all this. There still seems to be the confusion within the government and also within the various government agencies. Is the policy of zero tolerance, is it still being enforced, hold, later on?

What happens to those already detained? What happens to the 2,000 kids in the detention centers? So, Charles, I'll start with you. To put it extremely kindly, it seems that this is an administration, which repeatedly struggles with one very basic question. That question is what happens next.

CHARLES MORAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think part of the crisis that we are seeing here is the lack of direction. When you have conflicting rules, you'll have a conflicting set of results. We have 2,000 children who have been separated from their family.

I think that there is a clear and present understanding that that policy of separating the children from their parents needed to stop. That has happened within 24 hours of this being really understood -- the magnitude of the problem.

At the same time, we have to figure out how to reunify those families within the confines of what the law says. Again, we are dealing with a body of law, dealing with judicial decrees, dealing with pieces of legislation on some stemming back 20, 30 years.

So, I think that we are seeing a play out here is not only a lot of grand standing by people on both sides, conservatives and liberals, but we are also seeing trying to find a way to rapidly remedy the situation while understanding that the influx of people from the border is not stopping for us to deal with the problems.

VAUSE: We'll get to those numbers in a moment. But Mo, you know, Charles makes this point that this is a long-term problem. But this immediate problem it seems was created as a deliberate choice by this administration.

MO KELLY, HOST, "THE MO KELLY SHOW": Well, this is where rhetoric becomes reality. It's one thing to say that you're tough. It's one thing to say that you're going to shut down the border, make sure zero crossings. But the reality is that this administration did not plan for how this was going to play out.

And you have the president who was more acting as the president of the Republican Party as opposed to the president of the United States. He seems like he is more concerned with his own optics as opposed to doing what's right and what's righteous in this situation, and then he had to blink.

VAUSE: And Michael, did this administration learn nothing from the first travel ban, which they tried to implement in the first week of the administration and caused chaos back then. It seems the way it's been handled seems so familiar.

MICHAEL GENOVESE, POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it is so often government by impulse rather than careful planning. The normal process is a complicated process when you want to make policy. You governmental complicated process. You vet it out. You talk to people. You bring people in. You bring in all the sides.

You end up trying to find something that you can send to the Office of Legal Counsel. Tell you if it's approved, legal. This president tends to bypass those steps quite often.

And its government by impulse leads to these kinds of chaotic problems, the mess that we are seeing in Washington, the confusion. We still don't know where we are even today after all of the decisions that have been made, rescinded remade, rescinded.

VAUSE: Here is the acting patrol chief with Arizona's Border Patrol told the "Washington Post," "what we are trying to avoid is saying that you were for the going to be prosecuted.

[00:05:09] That message would be very bad and that would translate to an increased number of people coming to the border and trying to enter illegally. Do they break the law doing that? Yes, they did. Are they going to be held accountable? Yes, they will."

This guy goes on to say that he expected Trump's executive order to compel more people to cross, but the effect would actually be delayed several weeks. So, Charles, in the short term the actions that we have seen from the president on Wednesday with the executive order could actually have the direct opposite effect of what he wants.

MORAN: Well, part of the problem -- we are talking about the, you know, ordering from impulse, is the problem that over the last year we have seen increases in different types of family situations coming to the border increase by 300 percent, 600 percent of the amount of people.

Eighty percent of the children that have been arriving to declare asylum over the last year have been children who have come unaccompanied by their parents. We are talking about increases on a massive scale here.

I don't think that the president could be even held responsible for trying to plan for a situation whereby hundreds of percent increase of some of these very technical areas with when we have under the Clinton administration, the Bush administration, the Obama administration, we have seen, you know, again a redefinition of what it means and what the policy is for letting people into our country.

Do we hold onto them? Do we release them immediately into the country? Hundreds of percent of an increase over the period of a year. It's hard to predict and plan and come up with a strategy for that.

VAUSE: Guys, let's jump forward to element number eight here because we have the numbers from U.S. Customs and Border Protection. The chart we are about to show you is the number of people arrested trying to enter the U.S. illegally through the southern border. It's a little confusing.

But here there are sort of two lines, maybe three lines that really matter. The blue line which spikes back in 2014. That's over May, June, and July, and then you look at the orange line which plummet over February, March, April.

That blue line is 2014 and the surge of unaccompanied minors in illegal migration that Barack Obama faced back in 2014. In 2017 is the Donald Trump's first year in office. You can see the red line in the middle there, which is incomplete, are the numbers so far for this year.

So, yes you are accurate when you say there has been this huge jump in numbers for 2018. But it's returned to sort of the historic normal the last couple years which is still historically low by over the longer picture of what we're looking at here for illegal entry into the U.S. via the southern border.

So, Mo, what we are looking at here is that President Obama when he was confronted by you know a similar situation having to deal with a lot of unaccompanied children that was sort of forced upon him.

This is a situation where Donald Trump saw these numbers go up after an historically incredibly low year back up to normal levels or relatively normal levels, he made a choice, a political choice that this is what he wanted to do.

KELLY: Well, that was the key point, when you say he made a political choice, as always, he was only speaking to one group of people, his core group of supporters, and not necessarily taking into account how this was going to play out in the real world.

It's nice to say zero tolerance. When he removed the aspect of discretion where they could make decisions and not just have a uniform policy across the board this is why we are here, and this is why I blame the president if only because it happened on his watch his AG asked for this and so here we are.

VAUSE: And Michael, we know that, you know, the first year the Trump presidency he was proud of those numbers, the plummet in the number of, you know, people being arrested trying to enter the country illegally in 2017.

He was very much disturbed by it in this year. Berating the secretary of Homeland Security in a cabinet meeting at one point. So, when you look at the numbers and the president's demeanor and rhetoric, how much of that is being driven by politics?

GENOVESE: Like all presidents, you embrace the good news and try to find an excuse for the bad news. And I think in the president's case because of his personality, he is even more likely to push blame off on others and not take responsibility.

I mean, he has been in there a year and a half. He should have been at least a little bit more prepared for this, should have been able to participate. But, again, you know, you see a president who is impulsive, who goes by emotion.

And planning takes time and is difficult, and it's hard work. And this president likes to jump from issue to issue to issue to get the headlines, and then when the headlines turn sour, he blames someone like this is the Democrat's fault.

VAUSE: And we'll just jump back now to number five for the guys in the control room playing along with all of us, during an interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network, the attorney general, Jeff Sessions, again, who is, you know, one of the real forces behind this hardline policy, you know he said with a straight face that the objective of zero tolerance was never to break up families.


JEFF SESSIONS, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The American people don't like the idea that we are separating families. We are we never really intended to do that.

[00:10:01] What we intended to do was to make sure that adults who bring children into the country are charged with the crime they've committed instead of giving that special group of adults immunity from prosecution.


VAUSE: But it was only back in May when he was talking about this policy that he was in fact warning that's exactly what could happen.


SESSIONS: If you cross the border unlawfully, then we will prosecute you. It's that simple. If you must goal illegal aliens across our border, then we will prosecute you. If you are smuggling a child, then we will prosecute you. And that child may be separated from you as required by law.


VAUSE: So, Charles, you know the point here is that they knew that the separation of families and children being taken from parents was the end result of this. And it was almost done as a deterrent get tough policy this is what could happen if you try this. To turn around and pretend that we didn't realize it was working out this badly seems a little disingenuous.

MORAN: You hear the last few at the same time as required by law. There was a consent decree. It was the Flores decision that's happened under President Clinton's administration where there were certain rules and structures in place on what they would do to protect children.

To actually advance them through the system to give them that adequate cover while the adults are being, you know, charged and tried and going through this adjudication process. Again, the dramatics of ripping families apart may be what the -- you know, the end result has been seen and has been fixated on.

You know, President Obama had a huge problem in 20140when he started opening his quote/unquote, "detention centers" that are still continuing to be used today. But as the attorney general said, this is not necessarily even something that the Justice Department wanted.

This was something that the court system forced the -- the Border Patrol and the Justice Department and to use that.

VAUSE: But Michael, you know, when you look -- talk about the law, the law is a shield not a sword expected to protect not punish. And the Obama administration made the choice that yes, this in a law on the books, but we would enforce it judiciously and for the most part parents and children were not separated.

GENOVESE: You play the hand that you are dealt, and this is a complex problem.


GENOVESE: It was for Obama. It is for Trump. I'm not saying there is a simple solution, but governing is hard work. It takes time and effort and you can't be as flippant as quite often the Trump administration seems about these things.

I think the quotes you have showed from the attorney general show just how if you don't do the hard work in preparation for the policy you get confusion, you get incoherence and you get chaos.

VAUSE: But, you know, I understand what you are saying it, but it seems this is something which this administration has been kicking around for more than a year. John Kelly who was then Homeland Security secretary was on CNN with Wolf Blitzer. He was asked specifically about taking kids away from parents. Listen to this.


JOHN KELLY, THEN U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: We have tremendous experience in dealing with unaccompanied minors. We turn them over to HHS and they do a very, very good job of either putting them in kind of foster care or linking them up with parents or family members in the United States.

Yes, I am considering in order to deter more movement along this terribly dangerous network I am considering exactly that. They will be well cared for as we deal with their parents.


VAUSE: So, Mo, clearly this was a deterrent. But at the end of the day, did they just completely and totally misjudge the political blow back?

KELLY: I think they misjudged the blow back from the American public, which I would say supersedes and transcends the political calculations. This is what bothers me the most. What we have seen is unintended consequence because of a failure to plan long-term.

Now, to the base he can say promise made and delivered and they are consistent in how they are approaching these things. But at the same time, they may be delivering on their promises, but the unintended consequences of what to do with trade and also tariffs and how they are treating our allies.

And now how they are treating these people who want to come into the country, the unintended consequences are they are making the administration and the country look bad.

VAUSE: We'll finish off on what may or may not have been a political choice. Melania Trump, the first lady, making a surprise visit to the southern border of Texas to visit with children in detention centers wearing a jacket, which read, "I don't care, do u?" We're coming up at the end here, so, Charles, a message perhaps and to who, do you think?

MORAN: You know, the -- the press secretary for the first lady said that you know there is really no meaning behind it. President Trump had a different opinion. You know regarding that message.

It was probably directed towards the media that knew would be covering her walking up to those stairs. When she descended the stairs in Texas, she was not wearing the jacket.

[00:15:08] She was not wearing, you know -- she was wearing it in D.C. and that was where the message was intended. But when she arrived in Texas, she was there to do what she needed to do, what her plan, which was to spend time with those families and bring attention and hopefully some relief.


KELLY: If she wanted to bring attention and hopefully some relief, why would she undercut her own message. And if anyone who is working on a campaign and operative level knows that everything matters, every optic matters, that does not happen by chance but by choice.

VAUSE: Michael, very quickly, 30 seconds.

GENOVESE: This is provocative. It couldn't have been accidental, and the question is, who is it directed at? That could be anyone from Donald Trump getting her digs in at him, to the media, to God knows who.

VAUSE: OK, we'll leave it at that. Mo and Charles and Michael, good to see you all. Thank you so much.

CNN has uncovered disturbing allegations against some facilities housing detained migrant children, (inaudible) abuse and putting them on drugs. As CNN's Drew Griffin reports the claims date back to the Obama administration.


DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Outlined in court filing and inspection reports and witness statements, the allegations range from unsanitary conditions to unairconditioned rooms in hot Texas summers and dosing children with mood changing drugs allegedly disguised as vitamins.

At the non-profit Shilo Treatment Center in Manvel, Texas, legal filings, quote, "Immigrant children being held down for injections, given multiple psychotropic medications against their will, some not even approved for use in children. In one case a boy was simultaneously placed on six psychotropic drugs."

And an independent psychologist found the boy had been misdiagnosed with psychotic disorder, though, he didn't have any symptoms. Another child, 13, from El Salvador said in a witness statement, "I did not want the injection. Two staff grabbed me, and the doctor gave me the injection despite my objection and left me there on the bed."

In other cases, it's alleged children were forced to take pills that staffers called vitamins given to them without their or their parents consent. An 11-year-old girl said she was forced to take ten pills a day, saying, "I would rather go back to Honduras and live on the streets than be at Shilo."

Shilo would not comment. In 2014, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee called for the state to order the closure of the Shilo Treatment Center, but it is still open and migrant children are still being sent there.

REPRESENTATIVE SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D), TEXAS: If we have children endangered in the federal government custody, it is our responsibility to immediately begin investigations.

GRIFFIN: At the Shenandoah Valley Juvenile Center in Virginia, which holds teens accused of being violent, one child wrote of physically being restrained and physically abused by staffers, "They handcuffed me and put a white bag onto my head. Took off all my clothes and put me into a restrained chair. They left me naked and attached to the chair for two and a half days."

This punishment chair was described in at least five other declarations from children. Shenandoah would not comment to CNN, but in court documents denied any assaultive residents but did acknowledge staffers use an emergency restraint chair as a last step of progressive response to aggressive behavior.

Some of the complaints and allegations stemmed from a long running lawsuit challenging the legality of the U.S. locking up or detaining any underage undocumented minors.

NEHA DUSAI, SERVICE ATTORNEY, NATIONAL CENTER FOR YOUTH LAW: The care they receive is shocking. What we have witnessed shocked my conscience and I have to repeatedly remind myself that this is actually happening in our country.


GRIFFIN: Most of the problems cited at Shenandoah and other facilities did take place before the Trump administration's zero- tolerance policy, but activist attorneys tell us that policy is only putting extra strain on an already flawed system. Drew Griffin, CNN, Atlanta.

VAUSE: Next here on NEWSROOM L.A., what will a denuclearized North Korea mean to South Korea and Russia. Talks between President Moon and Putin are about to get underway.

Also, ahead, North and South Korea hold talks aimed at reuniting families driven apart by civil war.



VAUSE: The wife of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was indicted Thursday on charges of fraud and breach of trust. Sarah Netanyahu faces years in prison for allegedly misusing state funds on the meals ordering affair. Prosecutors say she spent $100,000 for meals at the PM's residence.

Mr. Netanyahu is also accused of illegally paying about $10,000 for private chefs. Her lawyers say the food was not for the family and they say the indictments were false. There is no fraud nor was there any breach of trust.

The European Union will start taxing more than $3 billion worth of U.S. products on Friday. Retaliation for the Trump administration's tariffs on steel and aluminum. These measures include goods such as motorcycles, orange juice, bourbon, peanut butter. E.U. officials say if the trade dispute continues, they will expand tariffs to include more U.S. exports.

South Korean President Moon Jae-In is to meet with Russia's Vladimir Putin on Friday. When he addressed parliament there, President Moon revealed what had been promised during his summit with the leader of North Korean.


MOON JAE-IN, PRESIDENT OF SOUTH KOREA (through translator): Historic changes are happening in the Korean Peninsula now. In April, I met chairman of the State Council of North Korea, Kim Jong-un. And in the declaration, we promised the whole world complete denuclearization and that there will be no more war on the Korean Peninsula.


VAUSE: Another priority for Seoul, the reunion of families torn apart by Korea's civil war. Delegations from North and South Korea held high-level talks with the Red Cross on Friday to try and arrange these reunions all set for August. The move was agreed to by President Moon Jae-in and Kim Jong-un during their summit in April. For tens of thousands of Koreans these reunions give them a chance to visit loved ones they haven't heard from or seen in years.

Alexandra Field joins us now from Seoul. Alexandra Field, this is such an emotional issue especially for the South Koreans that most of these people are getting much older, they see this really as their last chance to see those relatives who they have been alienated from for so many years.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you are talking about the hopes and dreams shared by generations of families now on both sides of this border. We're not just talking about years of separation but decades of separation.

Nearly 70 years of separation for families, who were wrenched apart by war and now they have potentially a once in a lifetime shot of seeing loved ones that they haven't been able to communicate with in any way, not a letter, not a phone call, not an email into North Korea.

But this is a lottery system, so, it means that you're probably going to see around 200 families selected to participate. We are using that number because that's what we have seen in the past.

But John, these reunions haven't been held since 2015. They started back in 2000. We have seen about 20 different reunions over the years since then, but they don't happen during periods of high tension. They've been called off or canceled in the past.

[00:25:01] So, it is tremendous and dramatic step forward to learn that there is going to be a reunion it seems on August 15th. That's what both sides are working to make happen right now. They're in those conversations as we speak.

Families, of course, are desperately hoping to be selected in this lottery system. We understand from South Korean officials that they have more than 132,000 applicants for reunions. But already around 75,000 of those applicants have died.

You're talking about a quarter of the living applicants who are in their 90s. So, time is truly running out to have these incredibly emotional reunions. Again, the last one we saw was back in 2015. These are reunions that are attended by North Korean monitors, but it is an opportunity for loved ones to reunite.

They might be able to exchange a picture the kind of thing that they haven't been able to do for decades and decades. So, certainly, you have families hoping that all goes smoothly in these talks today and then hoping that they could be among the few who are selected for these brief reunions. Again, just a once in a lifetime opportunity -- John.

VAUSE: Alex, thank you. Of course, this is of an emotional issue, which so many people are hoping they can actually come to terms with. Thank you. Appreciate the live report.

Ahead here on NEWSROOM L.A., for the last year and a half, it seems the U.S. president has been determined to dismantle the world order, the United States built in the wake of World War II. Now that -- what will that actually mean for Donald Trump's successor and can they repair the damage which has been done to this world order? More on that in just a moment.


VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause. We'll check the headlines this hour.

E-mails obtained by CNN suggest that Donald Trump's zero-tolerance policy for undocumented immigrants might actually be on hold. The White House is struggling to make sense of this approach especially separating children from their parents.

Again, on Thursday, the president falsely blamed Democrats for the crisis on the southern border. The wife of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been charged with fraud and breach of trust.

Sarah Netanyahu was indicted Thursday over what's being called the meals ordering affair. Prosecutors alleged she misused state funds spending more than $100,000 on meals and private chefs.

South Korea's president is in Moscow about to meet with Vladimir Putin. On the agenda, denuclearization of North Korea. Now their countries might move forward and possibly benefit from that. On a lighter note, both countries wish each other well at the World Cup.

If Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin meet next month and it now appears they will, it won't be for the first time, but it could be the most critical face-to-face yet. The two leaders have met twice before on the sidelines of other summits. They've also spoken by phone at least eight times.

[00:30:05] No date or location for their meeting has been set. But it's likely to come either before or after Mr. Trump attends next month's NATO Summit in Brussels. Allies are nervous over the timing.

It's just when NATO wants to present a unified front in opposition to Russian aggression. This concerning the alliance will be left weakened should the U.S. president attack NATO members just like he did to allies at the G7 Summit earlier this month. And the head of NATO has acknowledged the 69-year-old alliance is being tested.


JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: Our bond is strong, but today some are doubting the strength of that bond. And, yes, we see differences between the United States and other allies over issues such as trade, climate and Iran nuclear deal. These disagreements are real. It is not written in stone that the Trans-Atlantic bond will survive forever, but I believe we will preserve it. (END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Markos Kounalakis is a visiting fellow at the Hoover Institute at Stanford University and he joins me now from San Francisco. Markos, good to see you. I guess, the immediate concern we are looking at is the head of NATO Summit, thinking it could go as the G7 disaster.

But that feeds into a larger trend of how much damage is being done to the world order by Donald Trump. This is the world order, which was created and defended by the U.S. after World War II.

So, assuming the next president, whether 2020 or 2024 takes a more traditional approach to foreign policy, will that president be able to undo the damage? Will they be able to return to business as usual?

MARKOS KOUNALAKIS, VISITING FELLOW, HOOVER INSTITUTE, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: Well, John, it's a good question because what we've seen really is that Donald Trump has upended the world order. It is not the same world order that the United States put together carefully, thoughtfully in the post-World War II era.

And we see it on a daily basis. It's not hidden. The president has delivered what in many cases -- what in many ways was what Bernie Sanders also promised to do, which was a political revolution. And that political revolution has incredible ramifications around the world.

It stresses our relationships with our allies. It creates tensions in the trade regime that exist and the rules-based system that we followed. So, there is no question it is being tested. And President Trump is the one testing it.

Now, is it resilient enough to survive a one-term presidency? I think so. I think we have to look to what happens in November 2018, whether or not that is seen as a referendum for President Trump's actions and policies, meaning will the American people vote for a Democratic Congress to enter into Washington, D.C. and check the president or not?

And if not, then I think you are seeing -- you will see that there will be a validation of the president and his policies. The same is true for 2020 when he goes up for re-election. So really, it's up to what happens then.

VAUSE: OK. Well, two photographs taken on the same day earlier this month seemed to illustrate the state of international relations right now. The first from the G7 in Canada. The U.S. president, the German Chancellor Angela Merkel leaning in, tension clearly visible.

Well, on the same day, the presidents of China and Russia looking like league royals out a buddy-buddy movie. Reuters reported Chinese President Xi Jinping gave the visiting Russian president, Vladimir Putin, China's first friendship medal, calling his bestfriend, underscoring the close ties between the two. And then during an interview on state television, Putin said he never had such a relationship with another foreign leader. You know, much of that could all be for show. But, you know, insincere niceness seems a lot more positive than genuine tension and disagreement.

KOUNALAKIS: These images are so powerful, you know, that the president of the United States would be confronted by his own allies and friends in that visual representation. And we do have to worry about what the Russian and Chinese relationship is.

We always have. We did during the cold war. We worried significantly about that. It's why the United States built the relationship to China in part to actually try and wedge out the Soviet Union.

And so, the question right now if you think of the world the way that I believe that Donald Trump sees the world, which is as a G3 -- not a G7, the United States within china and Russia. What matters then is who is allied with whom, who is working against who's interests or is it just three individual powerhouses competing on the world stage for resources and power?

[00:35:06] VAUSE: Yes, you know, there is also what happens domestically. This latest outrage over the Trump administration policy of taking children away from their parents if they're caught crossing the border illegally.

The front cover of "Time" magazine had a very powerful image of Donald Trump looming over a crying child. And here is part of the cover story "Just and democratic have disappeared as qualities the U.S. once sought to promote beyond its border. That has now replaced with a new twist on the slogan America first. The slogan that first surfaced to keep America out of World War II."

Whether it's the outrage over, you know, the travel ban in the first year or the president calling neo-Nazis good people or whether it's feuding with professional football players, who are protesting more social justice, what happens in American borders doesn't just say stay here. It's very much seen around the world.

KOUNALAKIS: Yes. And it's not just America first, it's America alone in the world. You know, it's applying and impressing upon the world the -- the -- the self-start of reflection on a nation that no longer sees itself as the world's policeman.

In fact, what it's -- the image its presenting is as a border cop, and this is dangerous. It's dangerous because we rely on what's called soft power to attract other nations to the United States.

And to look at the United States as a beacon of hope, democracy and a future that other nations can aspire to. The good news though, John, is that I believe the United States is resilient.

I believe that the Democratic values are really there and underpin the society and that even though this may be an aberration, that we can return to those -- at least some of those principles, albeit with very different leadership, with very different approach, and -- and its really going to be a question of what happens this November and then again in 2020.

VAUSE: I guess, just finishing off this point, Donald Trump seems to, you know, be taking a particular large size wrecking ball to this world order. As we said that other presidents before him were also looking to withdraw from U.S. leadership roles, Obama in particular when you look at the Middle East.

George W. Bush campaigned on a humble foreign policy not an arrogant on. This trend has been going on for sometimes. Accelerated massively under Donald Trump, but it's been there leading up to Donald Trump.

KOUNALAKIS: Yes, you're right. I mean, it has been a questioning of the American role in the world. And you know, we have been able to actually see what happened with George W. Bush, which was the Iraq war debacle I think we can safely say at this point and the reversal of that from -- with President Obama.

I was able to see that in fact the instructions to the State Department envoys to those who are ambassadors around the world including my wife, by the way, who was the ambassador to Hungary, that the direction was to repair those damaged relationships.

At the end of the George Bush presidency, many of those relationships were damaged and American -- and anti-Americanism was growing, America's standing in the world was low. But it was repaired to some degree.

You're talking about the longer trend about America's retreat and I think what we have to realize in the United States is that there are other powers that are rising right now and that they're becoming great powers and they want a piece of the pie.

They're certainly getting a piece of the economic pie today. But they want more regional leadership and I'm speaking specifically about China right now. And they're trying to assert that leadership.

And the question is do we confront it, deal with it, manage it? How does the leadership of this country actually deal with this changing, ever changing relationship and power structure that we call the world order?

VAUSE: Markos, thank you so much. It's such a big picture topic, I'm not sure we did it justice, but we did the best we could. I really appreciate you being with us. Thanks so much.

KOUNALAKIS: Thanks, John.

VAUSE: Well, it was the historic summit between North Korea and the United States. But it wasn't so historic once it gets the bad lips- reading treatment. Back in a moment.


[00:41:32] VAUSE: One speaks English, the other speaks Korean, but that didn't mean anything when the bad lip-reading guys got ahold of the historic summit earlier this month. That would be Donald Trump and Kim Jong- un. Here is Jeanne Moos.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You know all those moments of the summit between President Trump and Kim Jong-un that you couldn't quite make out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): I touch you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Yes, buddy. Cool beans, homey.

MOOS: These two homeys finally got the bad lip-reading treatment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): I always try to be charge because you never know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Yes, dude, like whatever, text me.

MOOS: BLR inserts non-sensical words.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): And he also mentioned that he wants a little German sheep and he intends to name it Glenn.

MOOS: And boring exchanges like this -- are transformed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Hurray. I win.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): No, I'm the best.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): I'm the best.

BOOS: No wonder BLR is the best, the producer who wants to remain anonymous has been doing it for seven years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): And save a pretzel for the gas jets.

MOOS: Giving new meaning to everything from the Trump inauguration.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): You can be a funny wiener, can't you?

MOOS: To the debates.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Well, I can do this.

MOOS: Actually, Trump was saying this.




MOOS: But it isn't just words that the bad lipped reader puts in their mouths. It's gastrointestinal distress.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): I think I should have hit the -- never mind.

MOOS: Bad grunt reading was how one commenter described it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Hey, look at the little tiny zucchini.

MOOS: So, if you are looking for escape from reality.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: We are going right now for a signing.

MOOS: Bad lip reading is so much tastier.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): We are going to have frittatas.

MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.


VAUSE: Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause. Stay with us. "World Sports" starts after the break.