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Amnesty International: Rohingya Militants Massacred Hindus; Two Senior British Cabinet Ministers Resign. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired July 10, 2018 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: -- this is CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. Ahead this hour, rescue efforts are back on for the four remaining boys and their coach trapped in a flooded cave for more than two weeks. We will be live in Thailand.
A controversial Supreme Court pick, protesters for and against President Trump's nomination already marching in what's shaping up to be a very partisan fight.
Plus, help for the Rohingya in Bangladesh, one man's crusade to educated and change the faith of the Rohingya refugees who are barely hanging on.
Hello, everybody. Great to have you with us. I'm John Vause. NEWSROOM L.A. starts right now.
Rescue crews are hoping to bring the last four boys and their football coach out of a flooded cave in Thailand in the coming hours. Operations resumed about 90 minutes ago. Eight of the boys have been rescued so far, and we heard a few moments ago from the hospital where they're being treated.
Doctors say the boys healthy, they're up and walking, and are in good spirits. They've been able to see their families through a glass window.
CNN's David McKenzie live in Northern Thailand with the very latest. Let's start with the rescue, David. Because in the past two operations, are there any indication how long before they reach the four boys and the coach if everything goes according to plan, how long would it be before they come back on that return journey?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, in the last few days they seem to have accelerated their systems slightly. We know from a Thai Navy source that in that mountain behind me where the cave is, pretty close from where I'm standing, those elite divers are already moving through the cave to get to the boys.
We won't know exactly how long it will take, but it should be in the next few hours should they be successful. It's very tempting, John, to start thinking of this as routine, but it's anything but routine. So many different things can go wrong, and they are really hoping, of course, that they get through this rescue without a major hitch, which would be pretty amazing accomplishment -- John.
VAUSE: Absolutely. Just as far as the eight boys who are already out and being treated in hospital, that update, we had about 20 minutes ago, was incredible when you think about the condition these kids are in after everything they've been through?
MCKENZIE: Well, that's right. It shows how resilient they are and how well they managed to take care of themselves for nine days without any food. The ailments that ty suggested were all relatively minor at this stage, John.
I mean, one thing committee with all identify with, the biggest complaints seem to be the hospital food. They wanted chocolate, and they gave it to them. They wanted more, and the doctor said no, because after not eating properly for so many days, the system, the body system that doctors say takes a while to adjust.
They are moving towards proper food. They are happy, healthy, moving around, even talking. Crucially, they were able, those eight boys, to meet their parents through a glass partition, it seems like a precaution, sending vials for testing in Bangkok just to be sure they haven't picked up anything. But they say they don't have any fevers. So, it would seem at this stage a pretty slim chance -- John.
VAUSE: Just quickly, back to where you are right now, there is this ongoing concern about the weather forecast and just when the heavy rains will arrive and how much rain will actually come with it.
MCKENZIE: Well, as you can see from your eyes, it's raining pretty steadily here. It has been for several hours, heavily overnight, John. And that could pose a problem. We don't know how much of a problem yet.
But one of the key reasons they were able to pull this rescue off was pumping the water out of the cave. It's kind of how much water is going to go in from the rain versus how much water they can pull out through the pumps.
If they move quickly, they are optimistic I think they can get this done, otherwise they wouldn't have pulled the trigger on the third day. But with the monsoons here, it seems, it is a window that seems to be rapidly closing.
So, what everyone is waiting to see if they'll bring the four boys and their coach out in full wet suits and face masks. They'll then check their vitals and whiz them past this road by helicopter or ambulance to the hospital where we got the update just moments ago.
VAUSE: They've got four kids and a coach to go. Thank you, David. We'll check in with you throughout the coming hours. A little more on the actual rescue operation. The boys and their coach out of the cave system presents unique and dangerous challenges. CNN's Tom Foreman takes a closer look. TOM FOREMAN, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: The news has been nothing short of miraculous, but they really could be entering the most dangerous phase right now, and here's why.
[00:05:02] First of all, inside the cave, the boys who remain and their coach have now been in a cramped, cold, damp position for a long time now, longer than anybody else, on top of which they've had limited oxygen down where they are.
All of that makes them more tired, weaker before the attempt is made to take them out. The divers, they're 18 of them on the key team that's working in the cave, taking people in and out. They have been going through a tremendous amount.
Yes, they have worked up a great system where they put a wet suit and a full-face mask on to each boy. They tether him to a diver up front who carries his air supply. Another diver comes behind, and they all follow a line out.
It looks very clean and simple, but this is a mammoth task in an incredibly hostile environment. We do not yet have great maps of the inside of the cave, but by some account, fully a quarter of this is still completely under water.
That means they're towing these kids out not the length of a football field, which would be far enough, but the length of 11 football fields. Whether it's a one stretch or spread out, we don't know. What we do know they're very tight passages. It's very cold. There are strong currents.
All that of is the reason that they have to keep moving right now to get this problem solved, because they know a lot more water is coming in the rain, and that could really complicate their ability to get to these boys and get them out, if the water in the cave starts rising again and the pumps can't keep up.
VAUSE: Tom Foreman, thank you. Bobby Chacon, a retired FBI agent and a former dive team leader for the bureau, and he is with us once again in Los Angeles. So, thank you for coming in.
BOBBY CHACON, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Sure.
VAUSE: I didn't think we'd get to this point so quickly.
CHACON: Me neither. We spoke a few days ago and this seemed like a far-off proposition.
VAUSE: I mean, this plan, you know, it's fraught with risk. It's dangerous. It's complicated, but it's working so far.
CHACON: It's definitely working. They put a great plan together. They are the most elite divers in the world doing this. These guys have really pulled off a miracle. There is one big challenge left, and that's to get the remaining kids and that coach out.
And as I've been a dive team leader in this situation, and it's a real challenge. I'd be more nervous now than I was before the whole thing started because these situations where you have so much world publicity on you, I've been there.
That energy of that whole area takes on a life of its own and the elation of getting the first eight out can be an enemy to you. So, you have to remain focused. You to kind of keep your divers on mission and the support crew up top, they can't be celebrating. They have to be focused.
VAUSE: And it's not the elation and not concentrating as much, it's also the fatigue. If you look at the divers for these guys, this is day three. I know they're fit and the rest of it, but this is pretty strenuous work.
CHACON: Yes, I would say this is about the limit. I would say if there were more people in there and they had to go to a fourth, fifth day, I'd say we need to take a step back, if we didn't have enough divers or we need more people. The problem here is there aren't that many people in the world with this skill level.
VAUSE: I think they're all there right now.
CHACON: I do too.
VAUSE: We heard from Tom Foreman about the challenges all these divers are facing. One of the biggest things about halfway through this journey out, there is this sort of what are they calling it, a t- junction, a pinch point about 15 inches wide. That's where the diver has to take his oxygen tank off, try and squeeze through. I mean, you know, that sounds tricky and challenging, but why is that so dangerous from a diver's point of view?
CHACON: This is where you can lose contact with your gear because you're separated from your gear. That's something a diver never wants to do. That's why we have it strapped to us. It's very against your nature to take your gear off.
And when they have to take it and shove it through, cave divers are used to this. This is what they do, but we all have a certain level of claustrophobia. When you're under the water, in the dark, in the cold, and you're squeezing yourself through, every time you squeeze yourself through, your body kind of tells you you're stuck.
And every time you get stuck, your body jumps a little bit and it is very anxiety inducing. So that's where that part that you're talking about, that's where panic can set in if it's going to set in.
VAUSE: Are you -- I don't know surprised is the right word or what's your assessment of the kids who some of them can't even swim.
VAUSE: Let alone accompanying these divers. Clearly, they have two buddies with them, but these kids, some as young as 11.
CHACON: No, they've done a great job. I do attribute a lot of that to probably the preparation the dive team did with these kids in that water, in that cave where they were stuck, getting them used to wearing the masks, getting them used to being in the water, calming them, talking to them during the dive.
The kids deserve a lot of credit obviously for remaining calm, but it was the plan that they put into place, the guys actually putting that plan.
VAUSE: We're also told that the way they set up this system, it was for four people to come out each day.
VAUSE: Today, they're looking at five and there is some talk, well, they're going to change the plan or whatever. Clearly, the imminent rain which is setting in, as we saw from David McKenzie live on the scene, obviously that's a factor here.
[00:10:10] But when you start messing with a plan that is already working, do you increase the risk?
CHACON: Yes, of course, and that is one of the things that makes me nervous. You know, the option is to leave the coach in there by himself and then take a break, another long break, because these breaks have been long.
VAUSE: There is a temptation to get it all done now.
CHACON: There is a temptation. They might be able to do that. I don't know the specifics of that plan, but they shouldn't deviate if it increases the risk. But if the waters are coming in, and like Tom said, if these rains increase and the pumps can't keep up, you can't leave that guy in there by himself if the water levels are rising.
VAUSE: That's the thing. You have all this time pressure now to get this guy out. Clearly, though, what we've seen the last couple of days, they keep making better time.
VAUSE: They can make up the time during the day.
CHACON: That's right. They've gotten more efficient. They know the routes. They've kind of probably saved some time in doing things differently. They have assessed and reassessed each time they've come out. So, I think hopefully they can do this in one trip because it sounds to me as Tom described with the weather moving in, it doesn't sound like they can wait another day.
VAUSE: Let's hope and keep hoping. Like you said, it's sort of almost oh, yes, this is simple. They're going to get the kids out, but it's far from that.
CHACON: Right. They have to remain focused.
VAUSE: Yes. Bobby, thanks. CHACON: Thank you.
VAUSE: Well, after days of consultation, U.S. President Donald Trump has announced his nominee to the Supreme Court in a primetime televised address.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Tonight, it is my honor and privilege to announce that I will nominate Judge Brett Kavanaugh to the United States Supreme Court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Yes, the winner of survivor Supreme justice is Kavanaugh, 53 years old. He is a conservative, worked in both Bush administrations. Also worked for Kenneth Starr in the investigation which led to the impeachment of former President Bill Clinton. Kavanaugh is currently on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. circuit.
Well, for more on all this, Sam Erman joins us now. He is a constitutional law expert and law professor of USC, former judicial law clerk for Justice Anthony Kennedy. That's a lot of titles. Sam, always a pleasure.
Let's start with the attention that Kavanaugh is receiving, on his views in particular, that only Congress can hold a sitting president accountable for a crime, arguing the commander in chief just too busy.
In 2009, he wrote an opinion that the country needs a check against a bad behaving or law-breaking president, but the Constitution already provides that check. The president does something dastardly, the impeachment process is available.
No single prosecutor, judge or jury should be able to accomplish what the Constitution assigns to the Congress. It sounds very similar to the idea put forward by Rudy Giuliani on the Trump legal team. Also, the current opinion held by the Department of Justice.
SAM ERMAN, FORMER JUDICIAL LAW CLERK FOR JUSTICE KENNEDY: Well, the position is that you can't indict a sitting president. That is consistent with the opinion of the Department of Justice and Robert Mueller is somebody whose an institutionalist. So, it seems unlikely he would go against what is Department of Justice policy.
The concern I think is that if that opinion sweeps more broadly, that if investigations of the president are not allowed or will not be enforced by the courts, then we start to worry that the impeachment process itself will not be able to function because as with what happened with President Clinton, the impeachment process often piggybacks on investigations that have happened beforehand.
VAUSE: Well, with that in mind, I had feeling you may go there. "The New York Times" reported just a couple of hours ago, Judge Kavanaugh once argued that President Bill Clinton could be impeach for lying through his staff and misleading the public. A broad definition of obstruction of justice that would be damaging if applied to President Trump in the Russia investigation. So, it seems like it's a bit of a quandary here when it comes to Kavanaugh.
ERMAN: I think that's right. Kavanaugh has been on both sides of this. He's been high up in a White House and high up in an investigation of a president. And so, he understands that investigations really can make things harder for presidents.
And he also understands that when you're running an investigation, a president really can get in the way of you finding out what happened when what happened is important for people to know.
And so, I suspect that when -- if he is confirmed, he would actually have an interesting perspective to share with the other justices, that his vote would matter, but also his experience would matter and have the potential to sway others.
VAUSE: I want you listen to what Kavanaugh said just after the president announced his nomination.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRETT KAVANAUGH, U.S. SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: I believe that an independent judiciary is the crown jewel of our constitutional republic. If confirmed by the Senate, I will keep an open mind in every case.
[00:15:00] And I will always strive to preserve the Constitution of the United States and the American rule of law. Thank you, Mr. President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: All that sounds great, but how much of this is now just all about politics? I always thought that the Supreme Court was politics- free and didn't actually matter, but that's clearly not the case.
ERMAN: Yes. I mean, I think the words that he chooses at this conference really are very much looking towards how do you cobble together 50 or 51 votes in order to be confirmed as a justice?
So, here there is lots of Republicans who will clearly vote for him. There is some moderate Republicans that he'll probably have to win over, they may be aiming to bring some more moderate Democrats in.
And, so they're going to say the things that they think will emphasize aspects of the judge that will make him more confirmable.
VAUSE: Let the games begin. Sam, good to see you. Thank you.
ERMAN: Thank you.
VAUSE: OK. Let's go to Michael Genovese now, political analyst and the president of the Global Policy Institute at Loyola Marymount University. OK, so Michael, let's stick with the politics here, always plays it wrong in any nomination for the Supremem Court. But given what we know about Kavanaugh's view on a president and he shouldn't be indicted, the question how big a role do politics play in all of this?
MICHAEL GENOVESE, POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, in politics as in life, it depends on whose objection is being gored. And so, you can see Kavanaugh coming down on either side of this argument. You can see him working for Ken Starr, coming out clearly against Bill Clinton.
You can see him with a similar situation when the tables are turned, and he is a looking at President Trump coming down defending President Trump. And so, you know, Senator Everett Dirksen used to say, "I'm a man of firm convictions. My first conviction is to be flexible in all things."
So, what you see in Kavanaugh's background, incredible political resume, which could come back to haunt him because he has a paper trail in a lot of things. But rather than derailing him, I think, what it gives him, as your previous guest said is really a lot of political experience and a lot of gumption and a lot of on-the-ground experience that will help him a great deal.
VAUSE: OK. With that in mind, this is what CNN's Manu Raju has been reporting. Because of Brett Kavanaugh's extensive paper trail and long record, moving his nomination quickly could be challenging according to sources in both parties.
Two senior Democrat sources in particular say Trump picked a tougher fight than he had to by choosing Kavanaugh, reopening controversies like torture, puts both Roe and defending pre-existing conditions as in Roe versus Wade in abortion, and the Affordable Care Act back on the table.
Now we are even in the leader of the Senate, the Republican Mitch McConnell hoping for a more centrist nominee and get this process through. At the end of the day, is this going to be a blood battle and do the Democrats have much chance here of stopping this?
GENOVESE: It will likely be a very ugly battle at certain points. Right now, the Republicans are in the driver's seat. They have on paper the votes, but there is a question how many Democrats might switch over, especially those in red states who voted for Trump where they might be electorally vulnerable coming up this next election.
The other question that I think you have to ask is will any Republicans defect. Collins and others might on the abortion issue want to move against him. But the odds are clearly in his favor.
But not so much for a speedy resolution because the Democrats will insist quite rightly that you want to put his paper trail up on the internet and make it available. He has had over 300 decisions and so, people need that transparence it is. They need to go through the record. So, that's going to take some time.
VAUSE: And a lot of people obviously pointed out that this is now if the Senate approves Kavanaugh, that he'll be sitting on the bench most likely deciding some very serious questions of law when it comes to this president and the various legal challenges which he is currently facing.
So that in mind, let's go to what Rudy Giuliani, Trump's personal attorney in the Russia investigation said over the weekend about Michael Cohen, Trump's former attorney.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: There is no evidence of wrongdoing with President Trump. So, we're very comfortable. If he believes this is in his best interest to cooperate, God bless him. I do not expect that Michael Cohen is going to lie. I think he is going to tell the truth, as best he can, given his recollection. And if he does that, we're home-free.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: OK. So, Cohen's lawyer fired back on Monday. This is Cohen's new lawyer in a tweet, "Did Rudy Giuliani really say on Sunday shows that Michael Cohen should cooperate with prosecutors and tell the truth? Seriously? Is that Trump and Giuliani's definition of truth? Trump/Giuliani next to the word truth equals oxymoron. Stay tuned."
[00:20:07] This is obviously a very different approach taken by this new lawyer for Cohen essentially taking the fight to Donald Trump.
GENOVESE: It's all part of the ongoing that you're seeing in Washington, that Rudy Giuliani and now Cohen and his attorney are engaged in this dance. If as Rudy Giuliani says, the president is home-free if Cohen tells the truth, why it is that right after the FBI raided Cohen's home and his business, why did the president explode so much in front of his staff? Why was he so irritated?
I think Rudy Giuliani doesn't know what Cohen knows. Only Cohen and his attorneys may know it and what he might say. So, what you see is Michael Cohen is slowly distancing himself from the president step by step. At one point he'd take a bullet for him. Now probably not.
VAUSE: That's the understatement I think of the week so far. Michael, thank you. Good to see you.
GENOVESE: Thank you.
VAUSE: We'll take a short break. When we come back, Boris Johnson out as Britain's foreign secretary leaving Theresa May with one very big political mess over Brexit. We'll tell you how she plans to fight back.
VAUSE: British Prime Minister Theresa May is fighting to keep her job after a second senior minister quit her cabinet in protest over her plan to leave the European Union. Boris Johnson, one of the most high-profile Brexit advocates resigned as foreign secretary and was replaced by Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt.
In his resignation letter, Johnson wrote, "The Brexit dream is dying, and the U.K. is headed towards becoming a colony of the E.U. Mrs. May has struggled to find a trade agreement which satisfied both the E.U. and hardline Brexit supporters within her own party while also protecting the British economy.
Shortly after Johnson resigned, the prime minister was back at parliament defending her plan for Britain to keep close economic ties with the E.U. on goods and agriculture.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Cabinet agreed to comprehensive and ambitious proposal that provides a responsible and credible basis for progressing negotiations with the E.U. towards a new relationship after we leave on the 29th of March next year. It is a proposal that will take back control of our borders, our money and our laws.
JEREMY CORBYN, U.K. LABOUR PARTY LEADER: We have a crisis in government. Two secretaries of state have resigned, and still we're no clearer on what future relationship with our nearest neighbors and biggest partners will look like.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: And all of this internal political drama is not going over well at E.U. headquarters in Brussels.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TUSK, EUROPEAN COUNCIL PRESIDENT: Politicians come and go, but the problems they have created for the people remain, and the mess caused by Brexit is the biggest problem in the history of E.U./U.K. relations, and it's still very far from being solved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[00:25:12] VAUSE: CNN European affairs commentator, Dominic Thomas, joins us now from Berlin. Dom, thanks for getting off early. A good place to start maybe the front page of Britain's "Sun" newspaper, a picture of former Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson. The headline, don't you know there's a bloody game on?
All the political turmoil within Mays' government, the infighting and talk of leadership challenges, the reality is there is a deadline, and it's looming. And they've got a problem. I think we may have a problem too. I don't know if Dom can hear us.
DOMINIC THOMAS, CNN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Yes. Yes.
VAUSE: OK. So, the problem is that while May continues to deal with all the internal strife, she is facing a deadline for this E.U. Brexit deal to be done, and it's not moving anywhere.
I think we've a few more technical issues with Dom. We might try to get back to him in a moment. But clearly, Theresa May isn't the only one with problems. We have a few ourselves. We'll try to fix it up over this break. When we come back, we'll have more on the Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh and the camps that are desperately in need for any kind of help they can get. At least one man is trying to do something about it, and you will meet him next.
VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause. We'll check the headlines this hour.
Two hours into the latest mission to rescue four boys and their coach from a flooded cave in Thailand. Eight of the boys have been freed over the past two days. Hospital officials say they are healthy and in good spirits. The team was trapped there on June 23rd in a cave because of heavy rains.
Brett Kavanaugh is President Trump's nominee to the U.S. Supreme Court. The 53-year-old Appeals Court judge is a conservative who served in both Bush administrations. Republicans are pushing for a speedy confirmation process to end before the midterm elections in November.
Despite losing two senior ministers within 24 hours, British Prime Minister Theresa May is moving forward with her Brexit plan in which the U.K. would keep close economic ties with the E.U. on goods and agriculture. Jeremy Hunt is now Britain's new foreign secretary after Boris Johnson, a Brexit hard-liner, resigned in protest.
And a court in Myanmar has charged two Reuters journalists with obtaining secret state documents. The two reportedly had details of security force movements and other confidential information. The men pleaded not guilty. If they're convicted, they face up to 14 years in prison.
Tragedy forced almost 700,000 Rohingya Muslims to flee Myanmar for safety in Bangladesh just keeping enduring. They're escaping a brutal military crackdown, what the United Nations calls an ethnic cleansing campaign of killing, rape, and the wholesale destruction of villages. But these people, at least, to some, are not forgotten.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJIV UTTAMCHANDANI, PRESIDENT, HUMANITY EDUCATION AND RIGHTS: I think it's just amazing to see the willingness of people to, you know, take in this population, that just -- it blows my mind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: FDMN is the new term they are using, Forcibly Displaced Myanmar Nationals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Joining me now, Rajiv Uttamchandani, a Human Rights activist and President of Humanity Education and Rights Academy. Thanks for coming in.
UTTAMCHANDANI: It's good to be here.
VAUSE: A couple of weeks? OK, you put out release, great video, and it really sums up, you know, what's going on. One thing that's struck me, the fact --- you know (INAUDIBLE) people living in this refugee camp uneven given refugee status by the U.N. Says there's a whole out of the world to desist this crisis. To that point, I want to pay another small clip for the video which was made. Take a look at this and we'll talk about it in a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UTTAMCHANDANI: We have the United Nations Security Council. We have the international criminal court. We have people around the world that know this has happened and want to help and want to do something. All we need is to work together to try to make that happen. So, that's our mission, that's our goal. But we will do our best. I promise you that. We'll do our best to make this happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: You know, it's incredibly moving but the only thing that struck me is that none authorized institutions that you mentioned actually doing anything. I mean, I saw that localized space and it was always like, really? I mean, it's just so -- you know, no one's helping. How to be able to say to these people? I know you're trying to do what you can do, but you're not even there. I mean, so -- you know, how is it able to go to these people when say (INAUDIBLE)
UTTAMCHANDANI: Well, for the first thing, John, is that there is a lot of aid being delivered to the camps. There are over 1.3 million refugees now living in Bangladesh, Rohingya refugees. So, once you go in the camps, from Kansas Bazaar, you see trucks, you see, you know, clinics. You see learning centers that are being established. You see a lot of huts now that are being reinforced for the month's summary. To me, that's treating --
VAUSE: The symptoms?
VAUSE: Of course.
UTTAMCHANDANI: Right, exactly. And you're absolutely right. So, what I mentioned in that video was indeed the fact that we have mechanisms that we've established to prosecute key personnel, whether it would be from a government or from a military institution anywhere in the world.
And I'll give you some precedent for that. The Nuremberg Trials, 1945, right after World War II, was the first instance that we -- has a civilization, if you will, established international criminal law as we know it today in the modern sense.
We said that crimes are not committed by abstract entities. They are committed by specific men or women in government and military that can be prosecuted. So, we have the Nuremberg Trials, 1945. We have the Tokyo Trials, 1946. We have the International Criminal Tribunal, the former Yugoslavia, established 1994.
We have the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, established in 1995, and we have current cases that are being prosecuted by the International Criminal Court, namely in Sudan, for example. So, in each of these cases, there had been dozens, in each of them, that individuals said that had been convicted or at least indicted for crimes that they have committed and for the criminal tribunal for Yugoslavia and for Rwanda.
VAUSE: But are we there yet with (INAUDIBLE)
UTTAMCHANDANI: We're very far from there. But the point being that we have is structured.
UTTAMCHANDANI: That we can fall back on.
UTTAMCHANDANI: That says that, you know what? There's a way to do this. This is a violation of international law and if we work together, we can prosecute those individuals.
VAUSE: Which is great, and I agree with you. But I just don't think it's happening. It's a long way for --
UTTAMCHANDANI: It's a long way.
VAUSE: More immediately, you actually are at the camp, doing stuff.
VAUSE: Which a lot of people aren't, and another clip from your video. Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UTTAMCHANDANI: You can see that the earth is a giant place. So many other countries around the world, so many people living besides me and you, people who look different, talk different, act different, but in the end of the day, we are all human beings and we are living here together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The cool part of what you're doing is you're just (INAUDIBLE) classrooms. And we'll get to that in just a moment. I just want to ask you what those kids were thinking when you said we are all human beings, we're all the same. (INAUDIBLE) because when you look at the way these people being treated, they've been treated with a lack of humanity.
UTTAMCHANDANI: They have been. They have been. And that's true. And anytime you go into the camps, I believe that people look at you with suspicion, obviously. Like, who are these people that are coming here from halfway around the world? What do they really want? Will they be here with us and will they stick with us for the long term?
I'll give you an example, there was one lady that I spoke to, she was raped, she was assaulted. Her children were murdered right in front of her. She survived. She's actually in the video that you would see. And when we -- when she told us the story, I said, you know what? We're not sure what we can do for you immediately.
[00:35:14] But the least we could do, I looked at the hut she was staying at, incredibly hot. She had no cell phone of any kind, no communication device, no electric fan, so I told her we would come back the next day and we will give that to her, and we did. And the smile that she gave, it just really touched my heart. And I think the children seemed that we are there repeatedly. Despite their initial doubts, we'll develop that sense of trust.
VAUSE: OK, well, the good news for those kids. Those who have potential for the entire generation to be lost (INAUDIBLE) but looks like it may not happen because of this -- you set up basically one step very much closer to setting up this virtual classrooms, what's happening?
UTTAMCHANDANI: So, August 12th is our big day. We've got the permission from the government to build a Viasat. It's basically a small satellite dish. The point being that there are about 55 or 60 percent of Rohingya are children, under the age of 18 years old, so that roughly translates to about 700,000 children under the age of 18. That's an enormous amount. Most of them have barely any elementary school education level whatsoever.
So, if we are considering the fact that they're going to be there, at least, in the camps for a decade, we need to have a consistent mechanism to deliver education. And it's not realistic to say that we'll have thousands and thousands of educators and teachers, travel all the way to these remote locations. So, to set up this Viasat, to connect them with teachers and professors from all over the world, August 12th, this is our big day. I'm very excited about that.
VAUSE: It is. And it means that, basically, if you're a teacher or a teacher's assistant, anyone who has a background on education.
VAUSE: You can help.
UTTAMCHANDANI: Exactly right, exactly.
VAUSE: I do want to ask you, though, about a report that Amnesty International has put out, about range in militants, and more role they played in this crisis. So the report came out earlier this year, it says, on August 25, 2017, Ranger Salvation Army militants attacked a Hindu village and basically round up 69 men, women, and children. There were execution-style killings, same day, 46 members of a Hindu community disappeared.
You know, it goes all the basically -- you know, saying there is blame to be put within the Rohingyas, with this militant group. When you go to those camps, and you talk to these people, does this ever come up? Do they -- what do they say about these guys? You know, do they support them? Do they just allow them or is it just (INAUDIBLE)
UTTAMCHANDANI: So, couple of responses to that, the first thing is that we have to understand that the prosecution against the Rohingya, from the Burmese military government is decades long.
VAUSE: I do want -- yes, and it's sort of a historical day, blaming game.
UTTAMCHANDANI: Right. But it's systematic, right? It's been orchestrated for a very long time. So, on the one hand, not condoning their actions whatsoever, such extremism is expected. But when you look at a population that's about 1.3, 1.5 million, whatever it is in total, this represents a very small part of that population. So, going into the camps, I ask them a question, what is it that you want? There was not -- could you not -- there was not a single person who said that they want to seek revenge against the Burmese military or that they want to exact upon them the actions that they themselves received.
UTTAMCHANDANI: So, their desire is to just go home. They want to live in peace and they want to forget about all of these. And that speaks volumes to the character of the population.
VAUSE: We're totally out of time but we can't leave this. But, you know, this is a huge (INAUDIBLE) from you and from those around you. I got to tell you, you'll get a lot more back from it, though.
UTTAMCHANDANI: Yes, yes. I mean, just the interaction with the children, and it's priceless. It's something that has moved and changed me my entire life and I look forward to returning very soon.
VAUSE: Well, good for you, man.
UTTAMCHANDANI: Thank you, John. I appreciate that.
VAUSE: See you again.
UTTAMCHANDANI: Thank you.
VAUSE: Next hour, we'll have more on the Rohingya strategy from the people who are living it, and confident they can overcome it with resilience and hope. We'll be right back. You're watching CNN.
[00:40:00] VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. We'll return now to the story about Theresa May, the British Prime Minister and the political strife, now surrounding her leadership and any other possible leadership challenges after two of those esteemed cabinet members has quit over her plan to leave the E.U. CNN's European Affairs Commentator, Dominic Thomas, hopefully, is with us from Berlin.
We could see you. Hopefully, you can hear me. Dom, really quickly, we're a bit out of time but, there is a editorial put out by the Conservative magazine, the national reviews in a steam, and saying, basically, for May, it's time to go. Her breath-taking incompetence makes a gelatinous Cameron look like Henry V by comparison.
When her autobiography is written it should be published as a loose sheet of unbound pages - no spine. That would make it inconvenient to read, but who would want to do so in the first place? Students of mediocrity? OK, so it's in the party itself. The bar is pretty low for triggering a confidence vote on Theresa May. But then, the chances or her surviving that, is actually pretty good, right?
DOMINIC THOMAS, CNN EUROPEAN COMMENTATOR: Right. I mean, it's actually -- you know, from the manner which she came into her office and people have been calling her ahead. So, the story, you know, transitions. And I think what's so remarkable about this whole process is not only did the former prime minister, David Cameron, sat down, I think can self-support it and they remain in the European Union campaign.
But from the moment in which Theresa May took over, has so -- have been also been remained campaign person and she was endeavoured to, kind of, build a cabinet around these different factions which is really somewhat unusual and not expecting all the ministers to tow the line, and there's being, sort of, constant, you know, acrimony and in- fighting going on. I think, actually, when she wakes up this morning, she'll probably be very happy that Boris Johnson has finally felt this cabinet.
And he was an extraordinarily undestructive, undistracting figure. And it's interesting to see that she hasn't automatically and immediately replaced him with a hard core Brexiteer, but in fact, where people that were former, remained campaigneers and that are considered somewhat more moderate. And so the chances of her, surviving this and remaining in power, at least, for the next eight months, to see this through. We're actually pretty good.
VAUSE: (INAUDIBLE) Forrest Johnson and David Davis have resigned, you know, because they believe the Prime Minister's hanging towards the soft Brexit deal. They wanted a much harder break from you. Here's a tweet from J.K. Rowling, because she's famous, this is what happens when you have men in government who've been raised from birth to believe it's someone else's job to clean up after them.
They throw tantrums and they finally make a mess. No one can fix Brexit. And also, another tweet from Gavin Esler, journalist and academic, the nature of this Brexit Dream is that Boris Johnson and his enablers wet the bed and now some grownup has to clean it up. And that's been a pretty common criticism out there in social media.
So, you know, no matter how these two cabinet ministers been in resignations, it's the possession that these two men, the two brow- printed guys, basically are washing their hands at their own creations?
THOMAS: Right. So, really (INAUDIBLE) three musketeers, you know, the three Brexiteers, you know the one that's likely unboxed, all by himself now, handling international trade. Seems that, you know, so extraordinary, so over the weekends, supposedly these men had all signed off on this new deal that Theresa May was going to go off to the European Union and fell.
And over the next, sort of, day or so, the whole thing fell apart. And I think we'll leave it, you know, with Boris Johnson, the fact that he was the, sort of, the second to step down, says a lot about his personality and integrity. This is somebody really whose talk is really devalued over the past year or so.
And that people have become increasingly accustomed to the fact that he's actually not that effective as a leader and as a politician. And when things have really gotten tough with the (INAUDIBLE) eight months to go, gets (INAUDIBLE) to somewhat describe a sinking ship.
VAUSE: Yes. Really quickly though, 30 seconds left. You said that Theresa May, you know, survived this kind of leadership talk for just a moment she became prime minister. But, does it reach a point where she becomes Margaret Thatcher in 1990?
THOMAS: Right. And, you know, I think that the one thing that's keeping her going as we said all along in our -- in our discussions about this is the fear of the labor government, right? And so -- and this is the one thing that has a chance of them of keeping them going.
I think that -- and beyond the eight months, if she even makes it that far, the time will come for a leadership challenge and it's really unlikely that she would survive that. It's hard to see right now who really could emerge from this and until this Brexit situation is settled and sorted out and the likelihood is we will keep going with these ups and downs and bumps in the road.
VAUSE: OK, Dom, we'll leave it there. Good to see you.
THOMAS: Thank you.
VAUSE: And thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM, live from Los Angeles, I'm John Vause. Stay with us. "WORLD SPORT" is next.