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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Trump Slams Allies At Summit, But Having A "Very Good" Time; Mueller Filing: Manafort Has Own Bathroom, Phone Behind Bars; Senate Confirms DOJ Nominee With Ties To Russian Bank. Aired 7-8pm ET
Aired July 11, 2018 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much for watching. "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, OUTFRONT HOST: OutFront next, Trump at war, fighting multiple battles with allies around the world. Can the damage be undone? Plus mocking victims of sexual harassment, peddling conspiracy theories about vaccines, sending new audio from the wife of Bill Shine, now White House Communications Director, top Trump aide.
And inside the cave, new dramatic video of the Thai cave rescue. A diver who's oversaw the entire rescue operation is my guest tonight. Let's go OutFront.
And good evening, I'm Erin Burnett. OutFront tonight, Trump at war. President Trump wasting no time today going to battle with some of America's closest allies. The battleground, Brussels, site of the NATO summit.
The President's first target was Germany. The world leaders were just sitting down for a welcome breakfast, right. Things to be casual, have a cup of coffee, the cameras start rolling. But then President Trump fires a first shot, slamming Germany over a gas pipeline from Russia. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Germany, as far as I'm concerned, is captive to Russia, because it's getting so much of its energy from Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: A captive of Russia? It's a stunning way to begin the summit that traditionally at least begins with some sort of small talk and niceties and is about unity. And it didn't stop there. Another target, the European Union itself. The President tweeting on his way to Brussels, "The European Union makes it impossible for our farmers and workers and companies to do business in Europe." The President also blasting European countries for not doing their fair share of military spending.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: Many countries owe us tremendous amount of money from many years back, where they're delinquent as far as I'm concerned because United States has had to pay for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: One senior European diplomat telling CNN, "It's like the world gone crazy this morning. Trump's performance beyond belief." Now the President's words today eliciting some interesting reaction from the President's own Chief of Staff, John Kelly. The White House trying to explain Kelly's reaction, insisting at the Washington Post that he was, "Displeased because he was expecting a full breakfast and there were only pastries and cheese." That's sort of hard to make up, right?
But let's just show you this picture because it sums up a part of the summit. You have U.S. allies together and they're all looking one way, President Trump looking the other. Sometimes a picture can say so much. And it's not just Europe. The President, of course, battling America's neighbors, repeatedly slamming Mexico for not stopping immigrants from crossing the border.
There's also the fight over paying for Trump's wall, which never ends, and there's this whole issue with our border to the north. The administration slapping hefty tariffs on what, frankly, is longest land border in the world, the closest ally of the United States, Canada is now retaliating.
And if you want evidence as to just how much that relationship has frayed, watch President Trump today walking past the Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. They don't even look at each other. It's sort of amazing. Now you saw it.
All right. And then of course, there's a tit for tat with China. That is the largest trading partner with the United States. And now, there's a trade war. The administration preparing for another round of tariffs on Chinese goods worth $200 -- $200 billion, I'm sorry, that of course sending the market down more than 200 points today.
Let's just show you this map. These are the countries that right now President Trump is waging his biggest battles against. Altogether, they represent 2/3 of American foreign trade. When you look at this map of earth, or if you may say, well there's a big land mass that hasn't been covered here, and you're right. That's Russia. Russia. No battle going on there, representing 0.0006 percent of American trade.
Russia, of course, meddled in the U.S. election. And according to the President's own intelligence chiefs, Vladimir Putin is doing it again in this election. But the President himself won't stop singing Putin's praises ahead of their summit days away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Will President Trump be prepared -- you know President Putin is KGB and this and that. You know what, Putin is fine. He's fine. We're all fine, we're people. Will I be prepared? Totally prepared.
I think I could have a very good relationship with Russia and with President Putin. And if I did, that would be a great thing. If Putin likes Donald Trump, I consider that an asset, not a liability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Is the President picking his battles wisely? Battles with 2/3 of American trade and 0.0006 percent? Fine.
[19:05:00] Well, Jeff Zeleny is OutFront live in Brussels. And, you know, Jeff, let's start with, you know, this morning at that table, right, when President Trump came out blazing. And you see, you know, the Ambassador to NATO, you see Pompeo. That's Kay Bailey Hutchinson, of course the Ambassador and you see John Kelly's reaction. How are administration officials reacting to what the President said?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, you could see the expression on their faces this morning. That was at breakfast before the actual meetings even started. John Kelly, of course, the Chief of Staff is a longtime four-star marine general. So he clearly may have been uncomfortable by that language looking to be on his face.
The White House, of course, offering no apologies at all. The President clearly coming here to Brussels to make the case that they believe that the other countries are not doing enough. But by singling out Germany, the President seemed to be doing so much more than that.
Vladimir Putin, of course, is not here in Brussels. Russia is not part of NATO. But boy is that Russian President hanging over this meeting, looming over it largely. And it was very clear in that conversation that the President was having about Angela Merkel.
Now, when he saw her later, face-to-face, it was all smiles and more, you know, just talking about trade, other matters. But the fact that that President singled out Germany, certainly was, you know, continuing of the Trump doctrine of undermining and upending years and decades of Democratic led coalitions after World War II. The President making no apologies about that. It is the America first agenda.
But specifically as it relates to Putin, you also got the sense here today in Brussels talking to a variety of people that the President was trying to perhaps offer up a bit of confusion, saying that Germany is close to Russia, the U.S. is not. Of course the President stung a bit by this accusation that he is, you know, too soft on Vladimir Putin. Of course, we'll find all that out on Monday when he meets with Putin in Helsinki. Erin?
BURNETT: Thank you, Jeff. And OutFront now, former U.S. Ambassador to NATO, Nicholas Burns, Juliette Kayyem, former Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security, and David Gergen, former Adviser to four presidents. All right. So, David, Trump's antagonism to U.S. allies, and look others, right? I mean, there's other situations going on. You got North Korea, et cetera. But we just look to that map, right, 2/3 of U.S. trade right now, those countries. The President has trade wars, other battles going on right now. Is this causing lasting damage to U.S. relationships or is it just all different because it's Trump?
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: I don't think there's any doubt that this earth shaking kind of approach, this effort to bring a hammer to NATO is going to cause a lot of not consternation just during the Trump presidency but beyond their Trump presidency. People are going to be asking does Donald Trump represent is the aberration or is this where America is heading.
And if they have any sense that America is heading down this path of retreat from NATO, they're going to be afraid. If you're in Latvia and you're worried about the Russians coming in and you realized the United States has already allowed the Crimea to be annex and (INAUDIBLE) to be annex, Ukraine has been meddled by Russia. And you're saying there's Latvia and you've had this kind of Trump experience two to three time, you're going to feel like you're very, very vulnerable. And this every nation for itself and we're then going to be in one hell of a mess.
BURNETT: Ambassador Burns, one hell of a mess?
NICHOLAS BURNS. FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Well sure was. Erin, I felt that the President treated the NATO allies almost with contempt today, picking fights with Germany, demanding they reach their defense spending levels now, not by they agreed upon date of 2024. Then saying, no, 2 percent is not good enough, you got to raise your budgets by 4 percent. It wasn't even remotely serious.
And I think, you know, it's important that we not normalize this. He is the first American president since well before Harry Truman, to not believe that NATO is central to American national security interests. And what made us great was our military alliances last 70 years, our ability to trade, our ability to keep a worldwide trading system together and to promote democracy around the world.
And the President is doing none of that. In fact, he is overturning all of that. This is a radical revolution and it's hurting America. And you saw that today.
BURNETT: You know, when you use the word contempt, Juliette, when you hear Ambassador use that, you know, we saw U.S. allies, right, the leaders all walked out together. You know, and some of these things are just pictures they happen the way they happen. But you saw Macron of France, Trudeau of Canada, walking out together. This is the group. And then in the back, you see President Trump and he is walking next to the Turkish President Erdogan.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Right.
BURNETT: An authoritarian dictator, who has been accused of all sorts of violations, trying to change Turkey's constitution, giving himself vast powers, reportedly arresting more than 100,000 political opponents, purging 150,000 from their jobs since 2016, jailing dozens of journalists, I could go on and on.
[19:10:14] The question is, Juliette, was that purposeful message that he choose to walk with Erdogan?
KAYYEM: Likely yes. Because I think that's just Trump's comfort level is to be around what he perceives as strong men, these men who take power in these countries, whether in Turkey or in Russia and sort of basically destroy democracies. Turkey, remember, you know, it wasn't always this way. Five years ago, seven years ago, it was well on its way to being a very vibrant Democracy and that has all been destroyed. It's also not -- you know, it's an irony that Erdogan has put in his, I think, his son or son-in-law as one of his top advisers which is very similar to what Trump has done.
And just one final thing on the point that Nic and David were saying, we have a tendency to view NATO as a foreign policy thing. It's good for Europe. But remember why we have military bases in NATO countries and why we have an intelligence apparatus that shares among all these countries or law enforcement or diplomatic or even trade, it is actually to protect the homeland, it is actually to protect the United States. That the more that we can deal with these threats away from our shores, we benefit.
And I think the question now isn't whether it's -- you know, whether NATO is undermined, I think the question is absolutely yes. The question is whether this is permanent. And I will, you know, just say, I don't know. I mean, after today, I don't know.
BURNETT: I mean, that's a pretty incredible thing that we're even having this conversation. I mean, David, I want to play again the reaction of President Trump's own staff when he made those comments, specifically about Germany and Russia, right, about Germany being under the control of Russia. Hear.
TRUMP: Germany is totally controlled by Russia because they will be getting from 60 percent to 70 percent of their energy from Russia and a new pipeline. And you tell me if that's appropriate, because I think it's not. And I think it's very bad thing for NATO.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: You saw the Chief of Staff John Kelly, his eyes sort of rolled back. He looked in pain or discomfort. I mea, again, you know, David, you know, could be catching at a bad moment. But then Sarah Huckabee Sanders said to the Washington Post, she acknowledged that he look strange. And the comment, the excuse she gave, this is the kind of stuff you can't make up in this new world that we live in. Kelly was displeased because he was expecting a full breakfast and there were only pastries and cheese.
Let me just be clear. John Kelly knows perfectly well but that's what you get for breakfast in Europe. So that's absurd, I can't believe I have to say that. Is this serious, David?
GERGEN: Well, listen, I must say I thought he was out of line. I don't care if you're chief of staff or you're the dog catcher working for him. You owe it to the President to be respectful, especially in public. But if this is the way he responds in public, and we've seen this kind of eye rolling or head in hands before with General Kelly when the President has been speaking, you can only imagine what it must be like in private, the private sessions with him is describing what's going on in the White House.
BURNETT: Yes. I mean, Ambassador Burns, you know, you also have Capitol Hill weighing in, right. Top Democrats in Senate, the minority leader and the House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi with the joint statement, "President Trump's brazen insults and denigration of one of America's most steadfast allies, Germany, is an embarrassment. His behavior this morning is another profoundly disturbing signal that the President is more loyal to President Putin than to our NATO allies."
But it wasn't just the Democrats. Top Republican, when asked about the President's comments, Paul Ryan also defended NATO. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: I subscribe to the view that we shouldn't be criticizing our President when he's overseas, but let me say a couple of things. NATO is indispensable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: What do you say about that, Ambassador Burns? Yes, the defense of NATO there from Paul Ryan but he didn't criticize the President for slamming NATO.
BURNS: There was a resolution passed by Senate 98 to 2 last evening submitted by Jack Reed, Senator Reed from Rhode Island expressing support for NATO. The Members of Congress were worried about this meeting from the beginning, because President Trump was telegraphing. He was going to lay, you know, a big punch on the allies.
I think NATO is going to survive this. Trump can't kill NATO because there's too much support in Congress and in the American people. But he's done enormous damage, Erin, to our credibility. And here is why. The biggest issue in Europe right now is actually not the summit. It's the anti-Democratic populist that have taken over the governments of Hungary and Poland and are inside the government of Italy.
And Trump is siding with the populist, the authoritarian leaders against the Democratic leaders like Merkel. He's trying to undercut her. And that's what has the Europeans most nervous about this President.
[19:15:00] GERGEN: I might say, Erin, NATO -- go ahead please.
BURNETT: Juliette, I'm sorry.
GERGEN: Let me say just a final word here.
KAYYEM: No -- Go ahead. I'll just say just quickly just, you know, one thing. We're talking about Russia, obviously, big meeting next week. The silent beneficiary is, of course, China as many people have commented. They just sit there and, you know, markets love reliability and Trump promises unreliability. And so the beneficiary in the end isn't just Putin, it's China.
BURNETT: All right, thank you all so very much.
And next, Paul Manafort's jail treatment, VIP, private living unit, telephone, work space, laptop, does not have to wear a jumpsuit. Why? Plus this, stunning new audio tonight.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DARLA SHINE, WIFE OF BILL SHINE: You know there was just a story with these girls, these women who are upset that they are sexually harassed in the military. What do you think is going to happen when you go on a submarine for 12 months with 4,000 horny soldiers?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: That's the wife of Bill Shine. Bill Shine is a former Fox Executive, Roger Ailes defender, who is now the top communications person for Donald Trump in the White House.
And the diver who helped the rescue from day one, now telling his story OutFront.
[19:20:07] BURNETT: New tonight, a judge ordering Paul Manafort to be moved to a new jail. So this comes actually as a filing from Bob Mueller's team, reveals Manafort's quote, VIP treatment behind bars. So this is what that means. Apparently, Manafort has a private living unit, its own bathroom and shower. He doesn't have to share a telephone, he has a workspace and a laptop with extension cord, I guess that's VIP, that he can use daily.
But unlike most inmates, Manafort, does not have to wear a prison jumpsuit. Now, prosecutors are saying that on prison phone calls, Manafort is saying he's being treated like a, quote, VIP. His lawyers though call these descriptions, their word, inaccurate.
OutFront now is Democratic Senator from Rhode Island, Sheldon Whitehouse, who sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee. And Senator, I appreciate your time tonight. You know, Paul Manafort, we all know, obstruction of justice charges, conspiracy to obstruct justice, bank fraud, lobbying issues, extensibly trying to talk to witnesses to sway them before trial. What's your reaction to what's being described as VIP treatment in jail? Do you think it's fair?
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: In all the years I was a prosecutor, I never quarreled with the corrections officials' determinations as to how to treat prisoners. I don't know if this is connected to Bob Mueller to the DOJ, to the FBI or if this is just a determination by whoever is in charge of the incarceration facility. So I really couldn't say.
BURNETT: But it's important -- I mean, the bottom line is if they're OK with it, you're OK with it?
WHITE HOUSE: Yes. I assume that this is being done in the ordinary course and it doesn't run up my temperature at all to know that that's happening.
BURNETT: So I want to ask you about something that happened today in the Senate, of course, where you are at the Senate confirming Brian Benczkowski to lead the Criminal Division for the DOJ. The reason he's important is that last year he worked for Alpha Bank, one of the biggest banks in Russia, close ties to Putin. He's come under FBI scrutiny. He also failed to initially disclose this on his Senate Judiciary questionnaire. Do you have concern here about whether he should be leading the Justice Department's Criminal Division?
WHITEHOUSE: Yes. This actually does run up my temperature a bit. You have to understand first how important the chief of criminal position within the Department of Justice and how unbelievably unqualified Brian Benczkowski is for that position. He's going in -- as a chief of criminal having never been a prosecutor, having never tried a case, having never argued a motion, having virtually never even been in a courtroom.
So, if you're trying to figure out why somebody like that would be there, the obvious answer is that as the chief of the Criminal Division, he will have visibility into the Mueller investigation whenever that investigation needs the requisite approvals from the Criminal Division for various investigative and prosecutive steps that they must take. And he has the ability to either delay or deny the approvals. So, he's in a position not just to peer into the Mueller investigation but also to interfere with it.
And when you look at efforts of the House to try to peer into the Mueller investigation through the so-called House investigation, and when you look at the President's efforts to interfere with and impede the investigation, the idea that this Trump appointee who is not qualified for the position is being put in there for some unexplained third reason, it's pretty hard to swallow. I think we've got to watch this like a hawk. I think there's a significant chance that he's there to be a clandestine back channel either to the recused attorney general for whom he worked for years --
WHITEHOUSE: -- or to the Trump team. This is something to watch.
BURNETT: Which -- I look at -- That's a really significant things that you're saying. But I have to ask you, Rod Rosenstein is technically overseeing the investigation and he is backing Benczkowski. Earlier this year, he said he was, quote, highly qualified and complained that his confirmation was taking so much time. Why do you think Rosenstein, who after all is the guy, overseeing Mueller, right? He should have all those worries you have, but he doesn't. Why is he wrong?
WHITEHOUSE: I don't know that he is. I think that on the one hand you've got to pick your fights. And if Benczkowski is the attorney general in the President's wish, it's really not Rod Rosenstein's job to publicly quarrel about that. Ros is also the one person in Department of Justice in the position to make sure that Benczkowski does not create this kind of trouble.
Unfortunately, we have not received very good assurances about what safeguards are going to be in place, either with respect to Alpha Bank in the larger Alpha group of companies around it or with respect to enforcing the attorney generals recusal or with respect to getting Benczkowski recused in these matters.
[19:25:14] BURNETT: Before we go, Senator Whitehouse, I want to ask you about a Washington Post report tonight about the President's selection for Supreme Court, Brett Kavanaugh. They are reporting that the judge piled up thousands of dollars of debt, tens of thousands, to be exact, tens of thousands of dollar of credit debt, buying baseball tickets. This is over the past decade and this is coming from the White House. Financial disclosure forms show he's carried significant credit card debt on and off for more than a decade. They do say it was paid off in past year but that's his record. Does it matter to you?
WHITEHOUSE: Not very much. What matters to me more than anything is the secretive process of special interest approvals, moderated by the federalist society that got him there. The terrible pattern of five to four partisan decisions by the Supreme Court, like two dozen of them now, that seem always to come down on behalf of big Republican special interest groups. And the unbelievable circle of special interest group so-called Amici, friends of the court. That surround the court and feed these five judges the party line from the big Republican donors. I think that whole context is a much bigger problem than this man's individual settled debts.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much Senator Whitehouse for your time this evening.
WHITEHOUSE: Good to be with you.
BURNETT: And OutFront next, CNN uncovering new audio and this is from the wife of Trump's top communications aide, this is the top communications guy in the White House, Bill Shine. And it's about women getting sexually harassed in the military. Here's his wife.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SHINE: What do you think is going to happen when you go on a submarine for 12 months with 4,000 horny soldiers? I mean, I hate to say it, but it's true. They should not even be allowed.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Republicans in lock step tonight, rallying around Congressman Jim Jordan about allegations that he ignored serious and serial sexual abuse allegations. Should they wait, though, until this investigation is over?
[19:31:18] ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Tonight, House Speaker Paul Ryan defending Representative Jim Jordan and this comes amidst allegations that the congressman ignored sexual abuse allegations. Now, keep in mind, this is just one of many Republicans who are coming quickly to the Ohio legislator's defense.
Sunlen Serfaty is OUTFRONT.
REP. JIM JORDAN (R), OHIO: To think that I would not stand up for my athletes is ridiculous.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, embattled GOP Congressman Jim Jordan is emboldened.
JORDAN: -- have come out and said the exact same thing that I have said, you know they said that? Because it's true.
REPORTER: Why do you think -- saying you did not.
JORDAN: And we're hearing from (INAUDIBLE) more and more everyday.
SERFATY: Pushing back on allegations he knew of sexual abuse during his time at Ohio State University, with new political weight, the backing of Republican leaders on Capitol Hill.
REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Jim Jordan is a friend of mine. We haven't always agreed with each other over the years, but I've always known Jim Jordan to be a man of honesty and a man of integrity. I also want to make sure that Ohio State conducts the review of this doctor and what he did.
SERFATY: In the last 72 hours, Jordan's political machine has been activated.
REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: These allegations can be made against anyone. So, I -- to me, until they're proven, they're not real. It's as simple as that.
SERFATY: With Jordan's allies on and off the Hill rallying around him, mounting an extensive and coordinated effort to fight back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jim is one of the most ethical guys up here.
SERFATY: Vouching for his character.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're sticking with Jim Jordan. He's an honest guy. We're with him.
SERFATY: Attempting to discredit the men now speaking out. REP. MARK MEADOWS (R), NORTH CAROLINA: I think probably the most
troubling part of this that I know is you've got something that happened almost three decades ago, accuser, who has a less than stellar reputation.
SERFATY: And delegitimize the allegations.
REP. JEFF DUNCAN (R), OHIO: This is a malicious attack on his character.
SERFATY: By who?
DUNCAN: I'm sorry?
SERFATY: By who?
DUNCAN: The parties involved, you know the case as well as I do. So --
SERFATY: All while baselessly speculating about political motivations of the allegations being raised now as Jordan weights a potential run to be next speaker of the House.
REP. JOE BARTON (R), TEXAS: If he were a junior back bencher with some very low profile, I don't believe these accusations would have been made nor do I think they have been given any credibility in the media.
SERFATY: Off Capitol Hill, a well-known PR firm is adding their muscle to his defense, too, creating this Website with the splashy #standwithjimjordan, with testimonials from former wrestlers and coaches at Ohio State University backing him up.
How do you feel about the support of your colleagues?
JORDAN: It's been great.
SERFATY: But Jordan's support still stand in stark contrast to mounting allegations against him. New allegations reported today by CNN that a fifth former wrestler at Ohio State says Jordan knew of sexual abuse by the university's doctor. There's no doubt in my mind he knew, the wrestler told CNN on Tuesday.
BURNETT: So, Sunlen, I mean, you know, you have seen kind of overflow of people coming to his defense in the GOP before they have any resolution to the investigation. What's next for Jordan?
SERFATY: Well, in the immediate future, Erin, is certainly a question of when Jim Jordan sits down with the OSU investigators who are leading this investigation into the doctor. He told me this week that that's something he's working with investigators to do, and potentially that interview could happen as early as this week.
In the long-term, though, there's certainly considerable questions about his political standing up here on Capitol Hill, about his political influence.
[19:35:07] It is notable that you have a lot of Republican voices coming out in last 48, 72 hours, voicing their support of Jim Jordan.
But certainly, we will continue watching that. It seems like he's on solid ground at the moment within his party. But certainly, we'll watch especially in addition to if there are potentially more allegations to uncover -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Sunlen, thank you so much for that report.
And now tonight, a CNN exclusive. We have new audio unearthed by our own KFILE which reveals some shocking comments by Darla Shine.
OK, you may not know her name, but you do know her husband. His name is Bill Shine. He's the former Fox News executive who is now part of the White House. He is the deputy chief of staff for communications.
In this clip which comes from a radio show in 2009, Darla Shine mocks female soldiers who are dealing with sexual harassment. I want to play it so you can hear the entire audio that the KFILE found today.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DARLA SHINE, "DARLA SHINE SHOW": I'm sexist, I don't think that girls should play on the boys high school team, I don't think that girls should be -- I think it's insanity that there are feminists who are stupid enough to fight to go to combat. Are you kidding me? Why would you ever want -- let the men go die in the front lines. Why would you want to die in the front lin
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
SHINE: You have to be an idiot. Why on earth would you fight to go on submarine ship for months on end? You know, there was just a story with these girls -- these women who are upset that they are sexually harassed in the military. What do you think is going to happen when you go on a submarine for 12 months with 4,000 horny soldiers?
I mean, I hate to say it, but it's true. They should not even be allowed. The top military should say no way, you're not allowed.
But you know, the feminists have fought for these rights, it's so stupid. I don't know why anybody would want that.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Neither the White House or Darla Shine has responded to our requests for comment, but this matters, because you may remember that Bill Shine, Darla's husband, was -- well, he resigned from his top position at Fox News. He was named in at least four lawsuits or allegations related to sexual harassment and racial discrimination allegations at the network.
Now, Shine himself when it came to harassment himself was not accused of doing that, but he was accused of covering up for others, including Fox News Chairman Roger Ailes. Now, Shine denies all wrongdoing.
And I want to go now to our Margaret Hoover, our political commenter and also former Fox News contributor, along with Rob Astorino, who has known the president for more than 15 years and known Bill Shine for about a decade.
OK. So, you both know the key parties here. Margaret, what's your reaction to what you just heard?
MARGARET HOOVER, FORMER FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR FROM 2007-2012: You know, thanks, Erin. I did know Bill Shine. He was part of the team that hired me at Fox News in 2007. And I was an employee, I was a contributor there for four years.
And here's what I'm going to say, and I think it's really important to keep this in mind, because I've been really outspoken about standing up for my friend Gretchen Carlson and for some of the behavior that happened at Fox News that was utterly inappropriate and that I think Bill Shine knew about and was party to.
Darla Shine is a private citizen. Darla Shine is not the White House deputy spokesperson. And I think we need to be really careful in our criticisms of holding individuals account for their spouse's words, because she isn't in the White House. She isn't giving President Trump advice. And so, he should be on the firing line if anybody should, but not his wife.
BURNETT: Rob, what do you think? You've known Bill Shine for a decade.
ROB ASTORINO, FRIEND OF PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR OVER 15 YEARS: I agree with Margaret. I would not hold whatever sins we're trying to put on Darla on to Bill Shine or on the White House.
And, by the way, I listened to the clip, read entire transcript from a lot of her different shows that are on the website, which she's talking about vaccinations and all these things. And you have to read them in totality. Even in --
BURNETT: Anti-vaccinations right? Let's just not even say controversial, that's an absurd thing.
HOOVER: Now you're jumping the shark, Rob.
BURNETT: That's not related to sexual harassment at all.
ASTORINO: No, no, no. I'm saying, in all of this stuff, there was a hint of laughter, a hint of poking fun, a hint of come on, you know, this was before #MeToo movement, maybe she was ahead of her time.
Now, look, there's nothing funny about sexual harassment --
ASTORINO: No, no, there's nothing funny about sexual harassment at all, but I think what she was saying is, her opinion, women shouldn't be in confined spaces for a very long period of time in the situation like the military.
So -- but let's get away from her for a second, because she's not the issue. I think Bill Shine in the White House, I have no problem with that.
[19:40:02] And I do think that he and her, their words are completely separate. I mean, there's a lot of people who voted for Hillary Clinton and Trump in the same household. And hopefully, they're still talking, but they have different opinions.
BURNETT: You know, you have a couple her where her views are -- we hear them, right? And then you look at her husband, Bill Shine, Gretchen Carlson, who you mentioned, accused his former boss Roger Ailes of sexual harassment, Shine quit the network. You know, many view it as matter of fact that he was there to protect Ailes from these allegations over many years.
Is this attitude towards victims a pattern that we are now seeing?
HOOVER: Well, look, Erin, I think that's an eminently reasonable conversation to have within the context of Bill Shine and his own behavior and his own history, and his professional history, what happened at Fox News, what his role was with Roger Ailes and these lawsuits. Maybe you could get Gretchen Carlson and some of these other women to go on the record.
I mean, a lot of people have had very good -- I want to say -- interactions with Bill Shine over many course of years. He was one of these cool heads of the network that kind of helped keep the ship level. I can see how in the context of a Trump White House, which is very tumultuous, where you have a president who's very up and down, I mean, you know TV networks, we all know TV networks (INAUDIBLE) cool heads keep sort of a steady ship.
And that is an effect that Bill Shine had at Fox News internally, with very dynamic and very up and down personalities between the talent and also some of the other executives. So, I can imagine that he's probably playing a pretty good role there. However, I mean, there are real questions if you're concerned about the attitude towards women that was institutionalized and accepted at Fox News, you should have the same questions about the way this White House is going to work. And that is totally fair game.
I just think it needs to be entirely separate from any comments that a private citizen makes married to him. We have not been through the transcripts --
BURNETT: I see your point. But, Rob, I'm curious -- Darla Shine reportedly retweeted attack on Carlson, she then deleted it. But Carlson responded to it, right? So, when her husband left Fox, she jumped in to defend him on this entire issue of sexual harassment at Fox News, right? She took that upon herself to do that, is that not relevant?
ASTORINO: Darla? You're talking about?
ASTORINO: Well, I would hope she would defend her husband. And she knows him very well.
Look, to the extent that I know Bill Shine, I know him as a professional, I know him as a very good person. And I was not at Fox, was never employed by Fox. So, I wasn't there on a day-to-day basis.
But obviously, he did a good job professionally. And I can tell you, you know, with a lot of lawsuits in corporations and government, when I was county executive, we had lawsuits every day, and I was named in almost all those lawsuits because I was at top.
I had no idea about any of these things or people. And so, sometimes people get caught up in things when they had nothing to do with it. I just want to be clear, there's no criminal charge.
HOOVER: At Fox, it was pervasive and Bill was integrated enough into the workings of Roger Ailes and all of the talents. If he knew about the chaos, he knew about the cases, he knew about all this stuff, there's just no way he didn't know. We know that he knew it because he's named in all these cases. So --
ASTORINO: Everyone could -- but first of all, I'm saying, everyone could be named in everything and oftentimes people are, whether they're included or not.
HOOVER: But that's not the case in these cases.
ASTORINO: And there were no criminal charges. Let's be very clear too --
BURNETT: Bob, do you really think that he had no idea what Roger Ailes was doing?
ASTORINO: I don't know.
BURNETT: I mean, I guess what this is getting at, Rob, is --
ASTORINO: Who knows?
BURNETT: -- is it appropriate for a person who did what Shine did to be working in the White House? For a person who, by the way, is accused of doing -- of harassing and assaulting women?
ASTORINO: He's accused. He's accused. And there's accusations every day. And that's the part of all of society that we've got to be very careful about right now, because accusations can ruin people, they can ruin companies, they can ruin families, they can ruin a lot of things. And, you know, unless an accusation is proven --
(CROSSTALK) BURNETT: Some of those cases including ones I know, people who said what happened, there were other people in the room who saw what happened. These things may not have gone to court but these are not accusations, OK? Some of this stuff happened. I'm tired of people acting like it didn't.
ASTORINO: No, look, I wasn't there, you weren't there, Margaret wasn't there in those rooms when things are --
HOOVER: I actually was there.
BURNETT: I know people in the room who were there, who were subject to it and another person in the room who saw it happen. I do know that.
ASTORINO: All I'm saying is, instead -- instead of nailing somebody to the cross when we know there are no criminal charges, Fox is doing their own internal investigations, you know, some of these --
HOOVER: Fox did an internal investigation and fired Roger Ailes and fired Bill O'Reilly and paid out Gretchen Carlson and admitted to an epidemic that existed culturally at their network and Bill Shine resigned in that scrum.
ASTORINO: He resigned, but he was not fired.
HOOVER: You're trying to obfuscate -- no, no, you're trying to obfuscate what we know about facts and what we know about Fox News. And so, let's just not sort of paint a broad brush and say this man is being unfairly impugned, when we know -- we know, and you're right we have to be careful because we don't want backlash against men who were innocent, OK?
[19:45:10] But I think it is different here, where we have real facts, we have real independent outside voices looking at circumstances. We know that culture was corrupted, and it was backwards, and they have admitted and gone to change. So, let's just not mix the waters.
BURNETT: I appreciate both of you taking the time tonight.
ASTORINO: I'm just saying, something to be careful when it comes to people's reputations.
BURNETT: I think we all three agree on that.
HOOVER: You're right.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you.
And next, the diver who thought the mission to rescue the 12 boys trapped in the cave was a, quote, suicide mission. He was overseeing it, but he was talking now for the first time. That's OUTFRONT.
Plus, this 14-year-old song is back on the charts, and it's all because of the president.
BURNETT: New tonight, we have dramatic video just coming in of the daring rescue operation, the incredible and inspirational one in which 12 boys were saved along with their soccer coach after being trapped in that cave for 17 days.
[19:50:03] This video comes from the Thai Navy SEALs, and it shows the boys on stretchers, being pulled to safety.
We're also getting the first images now of the boys recovering in that hospital where they were, of course, taken immediately because they were worried about issues with their immune systems. Their families having to look through glass, crying as they see them, but not able to actually touch them yet.
OUTFRONT now, Ben Reymenants. He's a diver who was involved in the rescue operation from the very beginning.
And, Ben, I really appreciate your time. I know, you know, you were along with the whole world so worried about this. You had talked about it as a possible suicide mission. Now, you see the videos of these boys waving from their hospital beds, not yet able to embrace their families. But they're there in those beds.
What's your reaction?
It sounds like Ben is not hearing me. We're going to try to get him back.
But in the meantime, we do have a piece so you can see a little bit more of these boys tonight, and Matt Rivers is OUTFRONT with that.
MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the first time, video released from inside the cave of one of the most daring rescues of all time. You can see how muddy the water is as divers disappear under the surface, diving, swimming, and trekking miles into the cave through darkness, they reached the boys, and then the hard work begins.
Loaded on two stretchers, one by one, over three anxious days, they're dragged across sharp, jagged floors. At times, they're pulled on top of the tube sucking water out of the cave, part of the pumping operation that made this rescue possible in the first place.
Where it's too steep, pictures show the boys hoisted through the air, a pulley system attached to a hanging structure. Below, rushing water makes for a swift current under foot, illuminated by rescue headlamps.
It's all incredibly dangerous. Flooded passageways the definition of peril, heartbreakingly illustrated with the death of a former Navy Thai SEAL Saman Kunan. He died after bringing oxygen supplies into the cave just days before the rescue began. His Navy SEAL brothers carried on their mission in his name, diving, swimming, and carrying the exhausted kids and their coach for hours until they could make it out far enough for initial medical treatment.
A final picture shows the last eerily illuminated steps, heroes freeing the team from their subterranean prison.
NARONGSAK OSOTTANAKOM, THAI MISSION COMMANDER (through translator): This unit is not only with Chiang Rai, Thailand, it's a global unity. This incident was more than a life-saving mission. It's gone beyond that. It is the unity of all nationalities.
RIVERS: All that led to this -- 12 boys and their coach weak, but healthy, recovering. Some of them seen for the first time in this video from inside the isolation ward of a Chiang Rai hospital. One flashes a peace sign. Others stand and talk.
Some make the sign for "I love you" with their hands, likely aimed at their parents on the other side of the glass. The doctors won't let them hug their kids for a few days yet, but the mere sight of them, the first time in 18 horrific days is enough to elicit tears of joy.
This improbable reunion thanks to the bravery and the skill of the rescuers, the men who delivered the good news the whole world wanted to hear.
(on camera): And something worth noting here is that the video that was given to us of the rescue by the Thai government doesn't include the points where the divers had to bring the kids and their coach underneath the water in order to get them out. Those interest parts the rescuers say were the most difficult. And so, as treacherous as that video looked, it wasn't even the hardest part.
Matt Rivers, CNN in Chiang Rai, Northern Thailand.
BURNETT: Just such an incredible story.
And OUTFRONT next, the British on a mission to make the song "American Idiot" great again. Why? Jeanne Moos, of course, will have that story.
[19:57:57] BURNETT: Tonight, "American Idiot", a 14-year-old song by Green Day is climbing the charts in the U.K. ahead of President Trump's visit, and it's not by accident.
Here is Jeanne Moos.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's not nice to suggest the president of the United States is an American idiot, but British critics are trying to make this 14-year-old song by Green Day number one in Britain.
MOOS: Just in time for President Trump's visit to the U.K. The campaign to make American idiot great again asks how cool would it be to have this as a U.K. number one? Are you in?
Enough were in on Amazon U.K. to make the song number one, though on the most prestigious official singles chart, "American Idiot" has been bouncing up and down in the high teens and low 20s.
It's been fighting a soccer song.
Ramping up support for England in the world cup until England lost.
Back in 2004, "American Idiot" was seen as targeting President George W. Bush and the media after the invasion of Iraq.
But now, the song's title has been plastered on a mockup of Melania's jacket, joining the Trump baby balloon in a one-two humor punch aimed at embarrassing President Trump.
Wow, a song and a balloon? That will teach him, tweeted an unimpressed commenter.
But long before critics started using "American Idiot" to insult him, Donald Trump gave it a rave review.
Back in 2010, Donald and Melania Trump attended opening night of the Broadway musical "American Idiot" which Trump called an amazing theatrical experience, maybe less amazing if "American Idiot" is now directed at you.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
BURNETT: And thanks for joining us.
"AC360" with Anderson starts now.