Return to Transcripts main page

NEW DAY

Trump Targets Mueller in New Tweetstorm; Trump Legal Team Wages War on Michael Cohen. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired July 30, 2018 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: He's destroyed himself as a witness. He talks to the press. He may be taping me.

[07:00:06] JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: If he's such a personal who's not credible, why did you keep him around for 15 years?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump launching his most direct attacks on the special counsel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is part of a continuing effort to influence the jury pool.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I certainly don't like playing shutdown politics. Let's try and avoid it.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need security. We need the wall. We're going to have it all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not worried about a government shutdown?

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: No, that's not going to happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For days, things have felt kind of hopeless here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife was the greatest woman in the world, and my grandkids was excellent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're starting to make some progress.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. John Berman is off. David Gregory joins me. Great to have you.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN ANCHOR: Good to be here.

CAMEROTA: I promised a busy morning, and I wasn't kidding.

GREGORY: You got one.

CAMEROTA: Yes. GREGORY: The president turning up the heat here on Mueller again.

CAMEROTA: Of course, because President Trump continues to try to undermine Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation, the president lashing out in a series of tweets slamming Mueller. Meanwhile, Mueller begins the prosecution of his first case, the president's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. That trial begins tomorrow.

GREGORY: Meantime, Rudy Giuliani is going after the president's former personal attorney. Giuliani praised Michael Cohen as honest just a few weeks ago. Well, that's changed. Now he's calling him a pathological manipulator. Giuliani says he wants you to hear more of Cohen's recordings, as he continues to claim, in fact, they will vindicate the president.

Rudy Giuliani joins us live on NEW DAY coming up this next hour.

We're going to begin our coverage, however, this morning with CNN's Abby Phillip. She's live at the White House.

Abby, good morning.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, David. This weekend brought us a series of furious tweets from President Trump attacking Special Counsel Robert Mueller by name, but the president and his allies are also intensifying their attacks on his former personal attorney, Michael Cohen, who they -- who has now said that he is willing to cooperate with the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIP: With Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation inching closer and closer to Trump's inner circle, the president ramping up his attacks against the probe and directly targeting Mueller by name.

In a series of tweets, the president accusing Mueller of having conflicts of interest, including an alleged contentious business relationship with Mr. Trump. The White House did not respond to CNN's request for information.

But ethics experts from the Justice Department determined last year that Mueller's assignment is appropriate.

President Trump's latest criticism coming days after sources told CNN that the president's former lawyer, Michael Cohen, is prepared to tell Mueller that then-candidate Trump knew in advance and approved the Trump Tower meeting with Russians promising dirt on Hillary Clinton months before the 2016 election.

The president has repeatedly denied that he had any knowledge of the meeting, Cohen also authorizing the release of a recording of a conversation with Mr. Trump, discussing a potential payment to a "Playboy" model who claims she had an affair with him, something the president denies. MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER PERSONAL ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: I need to

open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend David.

PHILLIP: President Trump's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, telling CBS that tapes of 183 Cohen conversations exist but that only one captures a conversation with the president.

RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: There are 12 others, maybe 11 or 12 others out of the 183 in which the president is discussed at any length by Cohen, mostly with reporters. All clearly corroborating what the president has said in detail on many of those tweets. So these are tapes I want you to read. I want you to hear them.

PHILLIP: Giuliani continuing to assail Cohen's character --

GIULIANI: The man is a pathological manipulator, liar.

PHILLIP: -- despite repeatedly praising him.

GIULIANI: He doesn't have any incriminating evidence about the president or himself. The man is an honest, honorable lawyer.

PHILLIP: President Trump also taking to Twitter to again threaten the government shutdown if Congress does not fund his border wall and change the nation's immigration laws.

The threat coming after the president met with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan last week to talk about government funding. After that meeting, both leaders downplaying the possibility of a shutdown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you're not worried about a government shutdown?

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No. That's not going to happen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIP: Well, President Trump today is going to hold a press conference with the Italian prime minister later today. But he'll also have what we call an Oval Office pool spray, which is a venue where reporters can ask him questions. But remember, just last week, the White House tried to punish a CNN reporter for asking him questioning in such a space. So we'll see what happens today, David and Alisyn.

GREGORY: Can I just point out -- what Abby brings up is important. So when you're in these pool sprays --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

GREGORY: -- very often presidents don't answer you. Their aides say get out of the room.

[07:05:04] CAMEROTA: It's just to get pictures. GREGORY: It's to get pictures. Or when they're done, then they're

like, "Get out." And people try to shout questions.

What makes Trump different is that he answers the questions. And now they want to say, "Oh, but we're not going to take a question from Kaitlan, because she violated decorum." That's so ridiculous, because the president takes these questions all the time. And who's less decorous than the president?

CAMEROTA: She also didn't violate decorum.

GREGORY: Well, of course she didn't. But my point is that -- among the reasons why she didn't is because he answers questions in that forum all the time.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for making that point.

GREGORY: Point of order.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's bring in CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and CNN senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson. Great to see both of you. Happy Monday.

OK. Let's talk about President Trump's tweets against Robert Mueller. Jeffrey, he doesn't like Robert Mueller, and he is upping the ante and claiming that Robert Mueller has conflicts of interest. Though of course, that is already vetted for -- people already check into that before they appoint a special prosecutor.

Here's the question. Given that the president is constantly trying to undermine Robert Mueller and calling him names, why are we going through the charade that the president's going to sit down with Robert Mueller? Why isn't -- why is team Trump continuing to pretend that they are actually considering this?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, because they still have a problem, which is if they don't agree to sit down with him, this -- there is always the good possibility that Robert Mueller is going to subpoena him. And if Robert Mueller subpoenas him, that guarantees a long legal fight which Mueller may win.

So this is not just the president's decision about whether to give an interview. It's whether to give an interview or risk the legal and political consequences of a fight that he may lose.

So if it were simply "We're not talking to you," I'm sure the Mueller people-- or the Trump team would have said long ago it's not happening. But they have a political problem, as well, and that's why I think this dance, which had gone on for months now, is going to continue.

GREGORY: So here's the legal question, and Nia, a political question. So Giuliani is apparently telling Axios this morning they should put up or shut up, and that there's been enough time. I mean, legally, that's ridiculous, of course. Because it sounds like the target is getting nervous. TOOBIN: Well, it's --

GREGORY: What does Mueller care?

TOOBIN: It's not up to the subject of the investigation --

GREGORY: Right.

TOOBIN: -- to decide when it ends. And by the standards of white- collar crime investigations, and by the standards of special counsel, independent counsel investigations, this is still not a very long investigation.

GREGORY: Right.

TOOBIN: And the only control that the president has over the duration of this investigation is whether he's going to fire Rod Rosenstein for refusing to fire Robert Mueller. This is not under the president's control.

GREGORY: And Nia, the political point is that's the most Putin argument you can make which is, "Geez, it seems to be going on for so long. They must not have anything," because there's a lot of people out there saying, "Yes, right on."

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL WRITER: Yes, that's right. And that's pretty much the argument you've heard from people like Mitch McConnell, too. Essentially, this has gone on too long. YOu need to wrap it up. Particularly, you know, they've got the midterms coming up. So if you had anything, they say, then certainly, there would already be evidence out there of collusion, of obstruction. So what's taking so long?

The interesting thing about Donald Trump, he's sort of turned on Bob Mueller. If you look back in December of 2017, he was essentially saying that he thought that Mueller was fair. And of course, a lot of things have happened since then, the kind of raid on Michael Cohen's offices and work space and seizure of some of those tapes. And now the latest with the CFO possibly talking about what he knows from the Trump Corporation. So you do feel the heat around Donald Trump at this point.

What is interesting, though, is even though his rhetoric is pretty much the same, right? This idea that Mueller is compromised, that he's got all of these angry Democrats, in the words of Donald Trump, around him, Mueller hasn't gone anywhere, even thousand there's all the speculation about whether or not the president is going to move to remove Rosenstein, remove Mueller. Mueller has been quite productive over these last many months, with those 12 indictments and now this trial beginning tomorrow, Paul Manafort.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's talk about Michael Cohen. So I mean, they -- they seem to be going, at least rhetorically, to war with Michael Cohen, but does it hurt their case that they've been all over the map and how long the president did trust Michael Cohen? Here's what Rudy Giuliani used to say about Michael Cohen, versus what he said in the past few days. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: If he believes it's in his best interest to cooperate, God bless him. He should cooperate. I do not expect that Michael Cohen is going to lie. I think he's going to tell the truth as best he can, given his recollection. And if he does that, we're home free.

The man is a liar. A proven liar. There is no way you're going to bring down the president of the United States on the testimony, uncorroborated, of a proven liar. I guarantee you this guy is a proven liar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That's after Michael Cohen has gone public in some form or another, saying that Donald Trump knew about the meeting in Trump Tower with Russians beforehand.

[07:10:08] TOOBIN: Well, Mayor Giuliani will be in here in a few minutes, and you can ask him about those -- about those comments.

CAMEROTA: Well, wait a minute. Let me write that down. I hadn't considered that.

TOOBIN: And, you know -- I think the Trump team, the Trump defense team, Trump personally, always believes that the best defense is a good offense, is attack who's ever attacking you. And that's what they're doing with Michael Cohen.

And you know, let's just see what Michael Cohen has to say. I mean, you know, we see -- he has not said that the president has violated any laws yet. And, you know, he has indicated that -- through a CNN story, that in fact, the president was aware and approved the Trump Tower meeting of June of 2016. That's significant. That would be a significant change in how we understand the facts of the case. But it may not be, in and of itself, illegal.

You know, I still cling to the belief that facts matter, that what actually happened matters. And let's try to find out what that is.

GREGORY: Also, I'm not exactly clear. And you asked Mayor Giuliani about this. He's a proven liar about what? Just making up -- in his mind, making up the business about the meeting?

Because the thing with the meeting is, if Cohen now is prepared to testify that Trump know, and Trump says, "Well, that's not right," I mean, we have to say to Trump, "Well, you haven't always been truthful before, so I'm not sure I can believe you this time."

My bigger question is, how does Cohen get used? There's so much attention on him, like he's the smoking gun witness. You're a prosecutor, you're not just relying on him on any of these matters, right?

TOOBIN: Well, absolutely, and -- and you know, in many respects, the financial records may -- what they show may be more important and, you know, just how -- what did Michael Cohen do? I mean, he did set up this money that -- that went to layoffs, the alleged romantic interests of the president. But that in and of itself may not be illegal. The question of whether that is an illegal campaign contribution is a complex and difficult legal question.

Again, I think the best thing we could do is learn what happened, but I think you raise a very good point of, you know, Mayor Giuliani saying he's a proven liar. What did he lie about? I don't know.

HENDERSON: And why did Donald Trump believe him for all of those years, 10 years or so.

GREGORY: right.

HENDERSON: I mean, is Donald Trump so gullible and naive, that he's being manipulated by this Rasputin-like figure that is Michael Cohen, in Rudy Giuliani's telling? So that, you know, it goes to Donald Trump in some ways, the idea that he's hiring this person and trusting him and treating him like family, but all of a sudden, he's a pathological liar and manipulator. We'll see, obviously, what he has to say.

GREGORY: And, to your point, did Michael Cohen lie in other representations that he's made about Trump in the past?

CAMEROTA: You guys are giving me a lot of good material, a lot of good material for this interview coming up.

TOOBIN: We live to serve. We live to serve.

CAMEROTA: Thank you. Thank you. That's how I like to use you. All right. Jeffrey and Nia-Malika, thank you both very much.

GREGORY: So coming up in our next hour, the president's attorney, Rudy Giuliani -- did we mention that -- he's going to join us live here on "NEW DAY."

CAMEROTA: All right. So what do allies of President Trump think of his latest attacks on Robert Mueller? We ask one of the president's biggest supporters, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:17:20] CAMEROTA: President Trump's attorney, Rudy Giuliani, stepping up his attack on Michael Cohen's credibility, calling him a, quote, "pathological manipulator" who cannot be believed. This comes two months after Rudy Giuliani said Cohen was on honest, honorable attorney.

Let's talk about all of this with Matt Schlapp. He's the chairman of the American Conservative Union and former political director for George W. Bush.

Good morning, Matt.

MATT SCHLAPP, CHAIRMAN, AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION: Good morning, Alisyn. How are you?

CAMEROTA: I'm fine. So is Michael Cohen a confidant or pathological liar?

SCHLAPP: Well, it's a little strange to have someone you've hired to do work for you tape you. So I think that raises all kinds of character questions.

I think the other major question about Michael Cohen, is he really much of a lawyer, or was he hired by Donald Trump to do a bunch of P.R. work? And if it was P.R. work, I think what Michael Cohen is engaged in now is a massive P.R. -- a P.R. campaign to save his reputation.

CAMEROTA: Well, was he a fixer? I mean, fixer, what we heard --

SCHLAPP: A --

CAMEROTA: -- let me explain what I mean by that.

SCHLAPP: Sure.

CAMEROTA: Which is that, on the tapes that we've heard, he's setting up LLC's. He's trying to pay off a "Playboy" model, using hush money.

SCHLAPP: Right.

CAMEROTA: So that -- hat's in the fixer department.

SCHLAPP: Yes, it's in the P.R., working with media outlets to stop negative stories compartment. And I think really --

CAMEROTA: He wasn't paying -- he wasn't paying media outlets. He was paying the "Playboy" model who said that she had an affair with Donald Trump.

SCHLAPP: Well, I've listened to the tape, and he talks about it in a slightly different way. But I agree that that's the ultimate intent. And basically, it seems to me -- and I don't know him. I haven't had business dealings with Mr. Cohen, but it seems to be what he really is trying to do is squash bad stories and work on public relations for the president. Really isn't a lawyer.

And so now, I think what he's engaged in is doing anything he can to make sure that his reputation is not destroyed and grows out of all of this and probably becomes more famous.

CAMEROTA: What does it say about Donald Trump that he had a pathological liar working with him closely for 10 years?

SCHLAPP: I think he's the most shocked person on the globe to find that this man was taping him. I mean, he was paying him --

CAMEROTA: Yes, but that's just the taping. I mean --

SCHLAPP: That's not a small thing. If you hire someone to do work for you, and they're taping you in your office, that's outrageous. I would be pretty upset about it. I'd be shocked by it. I'm sure you would be, too.

CAMEROTA: Oh, it -- that's one of the many stunning revelations that we've had.

SCHLAPP: Yes.

CAMEROTA: But how do you explain that Donald Trump, who prides himself on being able to assess humans, was duped somehow by a pathological liar for 10 years?

SCHLAPP: It can happen.

CAMEROTA: Can it?

SCHLAPP: It can happen.

CAMEROTA: I mean, Matt, can it?

SCHLAPP: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Have you been around somebody who has lied to you for ten years?

SCHLAPP: Yes, I have, and it's very painful when you find out that the person is not the person you thought they were. And you -- hopefully, if your life -- I just turned 50 this year, Alisyn, so I officially turned old. Hopefully, you can count those interactions only on one hand, but when you're involved at a high level in business or politics or anything else, you have these episodes, and they're painful.

[07:20:16] CAMEROTA: Matt, I'd like to hear more about your back story and who duped you for 10 years. That sounds fascinating, but for another day.

The president continues to try to undermine Robert Mueller and now says, 14 months later, that he has conflicts of interest. What do you think those are?

SCHLAPP: I think Bob Mueller, if there are conflicts of interest, I'd like to hear what they are.

CAMEROTA: So would we. I mean, the president has been vague. And just to let everybody know, there are -- there is a team of lawyers who vet these things.

SCHLAPP: That's right.

CAMEROTA: A special prosecutor isn't just appointed willy-nilly. There's a lot of vetting and research that goes into it. So the president just throwing out that, obviously, begs a lot of questions. And as you know, Rudy Giuliani, among so many other people, have talked about, you know, his unimpeachable credentials and how Robert Mueller has sterling credentials. CAMEROTA: And so it feels like the president is casting about for a

new line of attack on him.

SCHLAPP: Well, I think this. I think, you know, if there are conflicts, I think everybody needs to know what they are. I think Bob Mueller in his team or the lawyers at DOJ should simply say what they are. I think one of the problems --

CAMEROTA: Well, the president, I mean, who's the one who raised them.

SCHLAPP: Fair enough, but -- and maybe that will happen. And he really shouldn't be the one raising it at all. The fact is, is this, which you talked about a special counsel's not picked willy-nilly. I really don't agree with that.

Rod Rosenstein had the ability to really pick anybody he wanted, yes. I assume they ran an ethics check. But remember, at the FBI, we were finding -- we found people -- and this is all part of this investigation, what Congress is asking from DOJ, people at the top levels of the FBI who had clear conflicts of interest. And they were still allowed to oversee investigations on President Trump.

So the idea that American people are going to be --

CAMEROTA: A special counsel is different.

SCHLAPP: -- calm -- but the American people don't feel like the FBI and the DOJ have been handling these conflicts well. So I want to know what this conflict is. If there is -- if there was a business relationship between Bob Mueller and Donald Trump that somehow ended acrimoniously, I think that is a massive problem.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but you're making a huge leap of logic. The president has --

SCHLAPP: Am I?

CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean --

SCHLAPP: You don't know what they -- you don't know what the facts are, though. You should wait to hear. I want to hear.

CAMEROTA: Matt, this is the point. How can the president throw out a claim and not provide the facts?

SCHLAPP: Well, he might.

CAMEROTA: Matt, you're giving him a lot of latitude right now. You don't just stir the pot and throw out an inflammatory claim and hope that maybe the facts will filter out later. It is incumbent on you to provide the facts if you're going to make an inflammatory claim against someone.

SCHLAPP: No offense, Alisyn, for the last 18 months, that has characterized this whole --

CAMEROTA: Administration?

SCHLAPP: -- coverage of the investigation of these wild charges of collusion. Throw things out and hope to prove them later. Donald Trump's actually a victim of that, and I think -- what I think the American people would benefit from, let's see all the facts. If there are conflicts, I think the DOJ should make clear what they are.

CAMEROTA: Yes, and just to be clear, you're conflating what is happening with some agents at the FBI with how a special counsel is chosen, and they are different processes.

SCHLAPP: I don't believe that's right. I think if you're going to go through -- I think there's a protocol by which you are picked to be an investigator of a high-priority person. And it should be very similar. If there's any conflict at all, Bob Mueller had any interactions with Donald Trump that ended acrimoniously, I think that's very problematic for his objectivity.

CAMEROTA: Of course it is, but I'm telling you that there's a team --

SCHLAPP: You agree with me on that? Do you agree with me on that? If they had an acrimonious business relationship?

CAMEROTA: Of course.

SCHLAPP: All right. Good.

CAMEROTA: That -- that's not the end of the story. That's not like, "Oh, case closed." There is a team of experts and legal analysts and lawyers and vetters who check into these things.

SCHLAPP: And if -- and don't you think it would be good for the American people to eventually know what this is, if there is something there?

CAMEROTA: Matt, you keep saying if there is something there. You don't like hypotheticals.

SCHLAPP: I think there's something there.

CAMEROTA: The president is throwing out a hypothetical, and you're running with it. Matt.

SCHLAPP: I think there's something there.

CAMEROTA: Why don't you wait until the facts are presented?

SCHLAPP: I believe there's something there. Have me back on your show.

CAMEROTA: It's interesting. It's interesting, Matt. You know, I think that these times call for us not to just run with our belief, not to just run with our hunch, but with a fact.

SCHLAPP: A very fair point, and I hope that, in this investigation, what I'd like to see the DOJ do is with all this 18 months of this investigation of potential collusion, which is ridiculous, is I think there should be classified documents, let people see everything. The American people then have to be the judge on all of this. Voters are going to have to decide in November and then again when Donald Trump runs for reelection what they think about all these matters. And I'd like to see more information out there, instead of less.

CAMEROTA: OK, we're working on that, Matt. You will -- keep it tuned to CNN. We are working on it --

SCHLAPP: It's a deal.

CAMEROTA: OK. Meanwhile, Mariia Butina. You know here. She's the alleged Russian operative.

SCHLAPP: I don't know her.

CAMEROTA: Did you never meet her? Because she was trying to infiltrate CPAC, which you helped organize.

SCHLAPP: I feel like I'm an unimportant conservative leader, because she didn't try to infiltrate me. And, you know, there is -- there was -- we did check our records and, apparently, she bought one general admission ticket to CPAC one year. If I met her, I certainly don't recall. I never had any interaction or any projects with her. And she seems like a very problematic person.

[07:25:17] CAMEROTA: Yes. There's a court affidavit that cites her efforts to infiltrate the NRA, and it mentions CPAC. It read --

SCHLAPP: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- quote, "central place and influence in the [POLITICAL PARTY 1] plays the [GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION]. The [GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION] [is] the largest sponsor of the elections to the U.S. Congress" -- I think they're referring to the NRA, by the way, Matt --

SCHLAPP: Right.

CAMEROTA: -- "as well as a sponsor of The CPAC conference and other events."

So my point is, she was trying to make inroads.

SCHLAPP: Yes.

CAMEROTA: I understand that you don't find her memorable, but are you concerned about what's going to happen in the midterms? Do you think that the Trump administration has taken enough measures to stop Russian infiltration?

SCHLAPP: I think it's a very tough thing to try to stop. I think it's a big mistake that Obama didn't try to stop it and that Russia has had this influence in our society and our elections for a long time.

CAMEROTA: OK, and so what's the Trump administration doing? SCHLAPP: I believe that Mike Pompeo, and Jeff Sessions, and John Bolton, and the team around Donald Trump are going to do everything they can to make sure the Russians don't have an impact on our elections.

But let's also be candid -- and I'd even give Barack Obama a compliment on this and the secretaries of state across the state from 2016. They never got into our voting systems, and they never really affected one vote. What they did is --

CAMEROTA: They're trying.

SCHLAPP: -- they tried to create chaos in our society, and after 18 months of this investigation, you have to give them some high marks for creating that chaos.

CAMEROTA: Sorry. I couldn't hear the last thing that you said.

SCHLAPP: I would give the -- I would give Putin's government high marks for creating chaos if you look at the fact that it's resulted in a special counsel and the fact that we're all still talking about it --

CAMEROTA: Wait a second. That's the part that you think was most chaotic? The fact that a special counsel --

SCHLAPP: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- was -- you --

SCHLAPP: Yes, I think what's most chaotic about Russia is he has -- I think the Russian government tries to sow chaos. If you look at --

CAMEROTA: Matt, the special counsel is what you object to the most? Not everything that happened with Facebook? Not all of the fake news?

SCHLAPP: So let's look at this.

CAMEROTA: Not all of the fictitious accounts. Not all of the sowing discord --

SCHLAPP: Yes. I have a problem with all of it. Let's look at what they did. Let's look at the money they spent. Half of the money Russia spent on the elections to try to create that chaos occurred after election day. A lot of the spending occurred in blue states.

CAMEROTA: So what does that tell you?

SCHLAPP: It wasn't -- the spending wasn't just to help Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: So I guess that the administration hasn't cracked down on it.

SCHLAPP: Then this is -- but these are -- but these are facts. Some of the things they did were to create chaos, both for Clinton and for Trump. They -- their desire is to destabilize the American democracy. That's the problem.

CAMEROTA: You heard what Vladimir Putin said. He wanted Donald Trump to win. There you go. That could be the bottom line.

SCHLAPP: Then why was his spending done in such a way where it also helped Clinton in blue states and, like I said --

CAMEROTA: Doesn't seem like that was the lion's share.

SCHLAPP: -- was spent to try to destabilize both campaigns.

CAMEROTA: But either way, Matt, we're out of time. Thank you, Matt Schlapp --

SCHLAPP: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: -- for talking about all of this and giving us the perspective from the Trump camp.

David.

GREGORY: Trump's weekend tweet storm comes as the president's former campaign chairman goes to trial tomorrow. So what's next in the investigation? We're going to ask former attorney general Alberto Gonzales, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)