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Gates Returns to Stand to Testify against Ex-Boss Manafort; Serena Williams Opens Up about Postpartum Struggles; Infowars Content Pulled from YouTube, Facebook, Apple. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired August 7, 2018 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
REP. WARREN DAVIDSON (R), OHIO: -- manufacturing before I got elected to Congress. And when the president talked about fixing our trade deals and making - you know, righting some of the wrongs out of the bad policy that got us into this massive trade deficit with China taking advantage of our technology, intellectual property theft, subsidies taken out of companies, you know, American companies and American workers having to compete against foreign countries, not just foreign competitors, I was energized. And so that top-level mission, I couldn't be more enthusiastically supportive of. But I have been very concerned about Peter Navarro's approach of applying uniform tariffs to steel because what that's done is it isn't imposed by retaliation from China or another country. That's something that because of the way we've done it has big consequences for companies all across the country but particularly -
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Let me jump in here -
DAVIDSON: concerned about the companies here in Ohio 8.
HARLOW: Let me jump in here because you say "I don't blame the president." You blame his, you know, one of his top trade advisors, Peter Navarro. The president is the one doing this. How can you not blame the president for a policy that you say will cause a recession if it's not ended?
DAVIDSON: Well, I think the strategy is big -- I look at it a little as military guy, a little bit like friendly fire. There is no such thing as friendly fire, right? So, we want to make sure that we don't do things that hurt American companies. The uniform tariffs are actively hurting companies. We've got about 20,000 --
HARLOW: So, isn't that the president's --
DAVIDSON: -- companies waiting for exemption to these tariffs. Well, at the end of the day, you know, everything that happens or fails to happen, the leader has to take ownership over. But I believe that the president has been led down the strategy by Peter Navarro. And I do believe that the president is seeing results. And so, while the long- term play probably isn't this, I think the short-term play is we're going to cause a lot of intensity to bring everyone to the negotiating table. So, I think when you see the president really being strongly committed to this path on tariffs, he's saying, look, come to the table sooner rather than later, and we'll all be better off for it.
HARLOW: It's confusing, though, to me because you have proposed - I mean, you want to tie the president's hands on this. On the one hand you say it's not the president's fault he's been led down this path by Peter Navarro. If we know one thing about the president, he paints his own path. You proposed legislation that would tie the president's hand on tariffs. That would not let him unilaterally make moves like this, that would enforce that Congress would have to approve of tariffs like this. Can you help explain that to me?
DAVIDSON: Yes. I think you misunderstand the legislation that I proposed.
HARLOW: I -- I read --
DAVIDSON: It doesn't tie the president's hands. It's not retroactive. It doesn't undo anything he's done. In fact it leaves the president as the lead negotiator on trade. What it does is it adds permanence to whatever the president does. So, it's not just an executive action that can be undone by a successor.
HARLOW: I --
DAVIDSON: It becomes permanent.
HARLOW: OK. I don't think I -- misunderstood the legislation. I read through your proposal. And your proposal would, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but it would mandate that going forward Congress would have to approve tariffs that the president wants to see placed. Correct?
DAVIDSON: Well, not -- in advance of the president implementing them. So the president could negotiate whatever he likes --
HARLOW: But for them to stick -- for them to stick.
DAVIDSON: The president talked a lot about tariffs, for example. Yes, to stick. So the president implemented some that took effect on July 6th. Everything about that would stay the same up until now until October 6th. So, if we really intended that to be a long-term approach, by October 6th, Congress would have to act if the bill I proposed became law.
And I think everyone's rooting for a better negotiation ahead of October 6th. And if not, the president could change it, could work with Congress, and we'd have a more collaborative approach. What I think that would produce is collaboration so that if we were going to do something like uniform tariffs which I don't think we would do together. We would have a better approach to deal with the exemptions and there wouldn't be six people working on 20,000 exemptions, there would be a bigger staff or better plan.
HARLOW: All right. Let me ask you finally before you go about Jim Jordan. Because you have been supportive, should Republicans maintain control of the House, you've been supportive of your fellow member of the Freedom Caucus, Jim Jordan, in his bid to be House Speaker. As you know, several wrestlers at OSU have come forward and they have alleged, and Jim Jordan has vehemently denied that they have alleged that he knew about sexual abuse there previously by the team doctor when he was an assistants coach there. Do those accusations against him concern you?
DAVIDSON: Well, I think you take any accusations seriously. But what I know of Jim Jordan, I've only known him about 2.5 years, I've never known him to be a non-confrontational guy. So, I think if you knew about that he probably would have spoken about it. That's how I know him personally. I have a tremendous amount of respect for his character. He's been a straight shooter with me every time I've interacted with him.
[10:35:04] HARLOW: Do you believe him over the accusers?
DAVIDSON: Well, I do believe Jim's version. And I do hope that if the accusers have been on the receiving end of sexual abuse, whether that was at OSU or anywhere else, that they get justice and the people that have done that are held accountable. My understanding in this case, the team doctor that is accused of doing anything to the wrestlers involved passed away in 2005. So, I'm not sure what it will mean for them to get resolution. I know they're working with the Ohio State University to get that. And I'm confident that the Ohio State University takes the investigation seriously, and will deal with it as a serious matter.
HARLOW: Congressman Warren Davidson of Ohio. It's a big day in your state. And I appreciate your time this morning.
So Rick Gates is on the stand testifying right now in this high-stakes trial in federal court in Virginia, testifying against his former boss and former President Trump's campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. What is the star witness for the prosecutions saying? We'll have a live report next.
[10:40:50] HARLOW: New details from the federal court in Virginia where right now the prosecution's star witness, Rick Gates, is back on the stand testifying against his former boss and former Trump campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. Let's go to our crime and justice correspondent Shimon Prokupecz. This is a big day for Gates. I mean, they're going to wrap up the direct. The cross-examination will begin. What has happened so far this morning?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're about an hour or so into his testimony. And really, Rick Gates just going through some of the details, spelling out just how Manafort made money, how the scheme worked -- kind of the nitty gritty details here of how the Ukrainians would put money into these accounts of Manafort's accounts. That they used various accounts of their own that they created, the Ukrainians have put some of the money into Manafort's accounts. So, it's really the important part of the prosecution's case, some of the more detailed information, perhaps a little mundane for some of us. But these are the important facts, sort of how the prosecution say the scheme worked. How Manafort made money. How he avoided paying some of the taxes, and how he hid some of this money. At one point, Rick Gates saying that Manafort made about five million Euros from some of these transactions. And then he described how the campaign worked. How the Ukrainians have structured the deals, the contracts, and how much they would pay Manafort in terms of helping him with some of the political campaigns that he was working on.
HARLOW: OK. Shimon, thank you for watching all of this for us, a few more hours of this testimony ahead, and then the defense gets to cross examine him. Thanks.
Still ahead, a message, a thank you to Serena Williams this morning from me, and I would bet just about every mom out there, next.
[10:47:03] HARLOW: Welcome back. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.
And this morning, I am thankful. I am thankful to Serena Williams. I have never met her. I have always admired her for her immense skill on the tennis court. But this morning I admire her for so much more.
A week after suffering one of the heaviest defeats of her career, this grand slam champion is fighting a very different battle off the court. She's opened up to all of us about her most personal struggles on as a mother. On Instagram Serena writes, "I felt like I was not a good mom." And with those nine words, she said so much.
Because here's the thing, we all feel like that. I feel it all the time. We, I, don't talk about it enough. Here's more of what the 23- time grand slam champion writes. "Last week was not easy for me. Not only was I accepting some tough personal stuff, but I just was in a funk. Mostly, I felt like I was not a good mom. I read several articles that said postpartum emotions can last up to 3 years if not dealt with. I like communication best. Talking things through with my mom, my sisters, my friends let me know that my feelings are totally normal."
And she's right. So many mothers suffer silently. Silently through exactly what she is experiencing out loud right now. This is an amazing woman who after her defeat, minutes after her defeat at Wimbledon, she said this, quote, "To all the moms out there, I was playing out there for you today, and I tried."
As my colleague, a man I should say, a male boss here said to me this morning, quote, "Here is this strong, this super strong, powerful woman dealing with something that millions of new mothers deal with." He's right. So thank you, Serena for talking about it.
So, let's talk about it some more. Our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen, a mother of four, is with me now. Elizabeth, look, she talks about one in nine moms suffering from postpartum depression or who they call the baby blues, or just having a really hard time after the birth of your child. How important is it for us to talk about this and know the facts?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, it's so important because I think part and parcel of how we women sometimes feel after childbirth is alone, right. And when you feel alone, it's really hard to heal. So to have Serena Williams, such an incredibly strong woman, say, hey, I felt this way, I think will really mean something to new moms.
That quote that you had from Wimbledon, I was actually at Wimbledon but my husband watching her as she said that that day. And tears came into my eyes because I thought what an incredible thing. This woman has just, you know, gotten to the Wimbledon finals, and here she is thanking other women and acknowledging other women and saying I'm doing this for the new moms. And for new moms to feel like they have someone like Serena Williams on their court, no pun intended, I think is incredibly powerful.
[10:50:01] HARLOW: I think it is. And you look at what she has gone through. I mean, she - had it so much tougher than I did. I mean, she had a near death experience just giving birth to her child.
COHEN: She does. And that actually puts you at risk for postpartum depression, to have a traumatic birth. The statistics show us that she has a blood-clotting disorder and so she ended up bedridden after the C-section for six weeks.
And Poppy, I think something that's really important is that she talks about how she told the doctors -- hey, I think this is going on. She told them, look for this.
COHEN: And they didn't listen to her. And I think it makes it a lot harder to recover when you feel like people aren't listening to you. And she knew what she was talking about. She was right. And I think that it makes it a lot harder to recover when you feel like people haven't been listening to you.
HARLOW: She's been so open about this. I mean, it's not just this Instagram post and it's not just what she said at Wimbledon. She has - you know this entire HBO series, "Being Serena." She's been open about it. I mean, Elizabeth, as a mother of four for you, as a medical expert the way you are, are things changing? I mean, is this a moment of real change where women and moms feel like they can confront this head on, be listened to, be heard, and be helped?
COHEN: You know what Poppy, I think it is. And I think it's so important. But I think there are limitations to this reveal. You know, Brooke Shields revealed her postpartum depression more than 10 years ago. And have things gotten better, yes. But I'm going to give you a sobering statistic. This is from the Centers for Disease Control, that nearly 60 percent of women with symptoms of postpartum depression don't get a diagnosis of postpartum depression, 60 percent. And then once women get a diagnosis, 50 percent of them don't get treatment. That's a real problem. 50 percent of women with this diagnosis don't get a treatment.
And Poppy, I'll tell you, we are great in this country at screening for, say, diabetes while the woman is pregnant. To make sure she and her baby get the care that they need. We're not so great at screening for depression and for treating it. And we need to get better.
HARLOW: Yes. We do. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you for being here.
HARLOW: I know the hardest job is always at home, right, with the four kids?
COHEN: That's true. The most blessed job. I would add that, as well.
HARLOW: I remember being in awe of you before I had any children. And now I only have two -- only half that. But thanks for everything.
COHEN: You are very sweet. Thank you, Poppy.
HARLOW: All right, Elizabeth. Quick break, I'll be right back.
[10:56:46] HARLOW: It is one of the best known sites for peddling in conspiracy theory, and now Infowars finds its content pulled from some of the biggest companies on the web. We're talking about YouTube, Facebook, Apple, Spotify, have all removed Infowars. Alex Jones's content citing hate speech policies. Its founder, Alex Jones, has done things like calling the Sandy Hook massacre a hoax. He has said that September 11th, the attack, was an inside job by the government.
Our senior media correspondent, host of "Reliable Sources," Brian Stelter is here with more. Good morning.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
HARLOW: When you look at why this happened, I was shocked by it -- I mean, you look at YouTube, for example, which he had 2.4 million subscribers. His videos on YouTube, watched 1.5 billion times. Beforehand, all of these platforms had not pulled down what he said, free speech right? Now they are. Why?
STELTER: It shows that these companies are making decisions, seemingly casual or very subjective way. There is no standard when it comes to what these tech giants are doing when they're encountering hate speech and misinformation on their platforms. And look, to be fair, this is a really difficult situation for these giant companies, for the Google and the Facebook of the world.
STELTER: Hundreds of millions of users. But they're being pressured to draw lines somewhere. And frankly, some of that pressure is coming from the media. It's coming from users who are asking, what are your policies? When someone is publishing hoaxes and lies and smears on your website, do you really want to be associated with that? And clearly now Apple and YouTube and Facebook are saying, no, not in this case involving Alex Jones. But obviously the question is where else will they draw this line in the future?
HARLOW: Well, yes, and why the decision now? Let's take a moment to listen to what Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg just a few weeks ago in mid-July told Kara Swisher on her "Recode" podcast about just this. Here's what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK ZUCKERBERG, FACEBOOK CEO: "The principles that we have on what we remove from the service are, if it's going to result in real harm, real physical harm, or if you're attacking individuals, then that content shouldn't be on the platform."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: So what - I mean, what happened? They were -- you know, there was a defense of why, even if you didn't like it, it was there --
STELTER: Right, for several weeks, the pages were still up on Facebook, still up on YouTube. According to our colleague Dylan Byers, what happened was that apple decided over the weekend to take down Infowars' podcast and the other companies quickly followed. So, in other words, Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple, met with one of his deputies. They talked about it. They decided to remove the Inforwars' podcast. Within a few hours, Zuckerberg of Facebook did the same thing, YouTube, Spotify.
So essentially, Alex Jones has been deleted, digitally deplatformed from these websites. You wonder if he'll have any influence going forward because these private companies do have an incredible amount of control over the Internet.
HARLOW: And I mean, that's -- he points people to his website. He says go here. You'll still get it there. They can't take it down. Does he have any legal recourse I guess to fight Facebook and Apple and --
STELTER: Yes, not an obvious one that I see, although he's now sowing new conspiracy theories about why this is happening to him. He's really a hate news monger. He's being challenged in court for things he's done. But I do think this is another example of how these companies are struggling to figure out how to handle all of the content on their platforms. It's a lot harder than just having an algorithm decide what to do.
HARLOW: And what is your policy going to be moving forward, right?
STELTER: That's still unclear.
HARLOW: Thank you. Appreciate it, Brian. Thank you all for being with me today. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. I'll see you back here tomorrow morning. "At This Hour" Kate Bolduan starts now.