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CNN NEWSROOM

Airline Employee Steals Plane, Goes on Deadly Joy Ride; Trump: Sessions "Is Scared and Missing in Action"; Trump Calls for Calm Ahead of Charlottesville Riot Anniversary; Twitter Defends Decision Not to Ban Alex Jones; Mueller Doesn't Care About Giuliani's September Deadline; Trump: Sessions "Is Scared and Missing in Action"; Mueller Holds Roger Stones' Back-Channel Guy to WikiLeaks in Contempt; Suburban Women Courted Ahead of Midterms. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired August 11, 2018 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:00] ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: That plane right there, the one doing flips in the air, is not being flown by a pilot. It's being flown by an airline employee, a ground service agent, the people you normally see unloading your bags, sometimes using the orange batons to direct your plane onto the runway. The worker stole the plane from the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport. The plane was empty. The employee took it up into the air. Fighter jets were scrambled to chase it. And after nearly an hour in the air, that plane crashed on a wooded island. Crews are searching for the black box now.

And we have the audio of the rogue employee talking to air traffic controllers. And it's chilling and dark at times. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED AIRLINE EMPLOYEE: I've got a lot of people that care about me and it's going to disappoint them to hear I did this. I would like to apologize to each and every one of them. Just a broken guy, got a few screws loose, I guess. Never really knew it until now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Other clips are more light hearted before again turning ominous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED AIRLINE EMPLOYEE: Hey, I want the coordinates of that orca with the mama orca with the baby. I want to see that guy.

Hey, pilot guy, can this thing do a back flip, do you think? I'm thinking I'm going to do a barrel roll and if that goes good, nose down, and call it a night.

CNN's Dan Simon is joining us live in western Washington, as close as we can get to that crash site.

Dan, what can you tell us about this airline employee?

DAN SIMON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Ana. We'll talk about that in a moment. But first of all, let me tell you where I am. We are in Steilacoom, Washington. This is the very landing area in order to get to Ketron Island where the 29-year-old crashed that plane. Now, to give you an idea of how sparsely populated that area is, the last census said there's only 17 residents living there. We now know there's dozens of investigators at that site. They would have left from here in order to get there. It is about a 10-minute ferry ride.

The first order of business will be to locate the block boxes, the voice recorder, as well as the data recorder. Ultimately, what evidence, Ana, they could yield we don't know. Of course, we do have a lot of conversation between air traffic control and the Horizon employee.

As for the pilot himself, obviously, he went through extensive means in order to get that aircraft airborne, including using a tractor in order to point the plane in the right direction. And then to taxi it and take off.

I want you to listen to what the CEO of Alaska Air said just moments ago, that, of course, the parent company for Horizon. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD TILDEN, CEO, ALASKA AIRLINES: It was a three-and-a-half-year employee of Horizon Air. It was a ground service agent for Horizon Air.

To answer the question that you asked, he was a -- background check. There was a couple of different criminal background checks we run on our employees. He had a seated badge with the port of Seattle. So that's another. He worked his shift yesterday. We believe he was in uniform. His job is to be around airplanes, as he's certified, so he's meant to be on the -- airports have a non-secure side and a secure side. He's meant to be on the secure side. That's part of the fulfillment of his job responsibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: Right now, the authorities said he was the only one in the airplane but that's not been officially confirmed as of now.

In terms of where we go from here, there's a lot of questions how this person, who seemingly had no flying experience, was able to get that aircraft airborne. As you heard on those tapes, he said he played a lot of video games. Maybe that gave him the wherewithal to do this. But still, so many questions as to how he got that airplane in the sky -- Ana?

CABRERA: We'll try to get those answers.

Dan Simon, thank you.

I want to bring two people, two experts to understand more about this bizarre and ultimately tragic plane crash. CNN's David Soucie, a former safety inspector for the FAA, is joining us on the phone. And also with us, our military analyst, retired U.S. Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona.

David Soucie, how was this guy able to get into the commercial airliner? It was not a small prop plane. And he was able to just take off.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST (via telephone): Here's the thing that's odd to me, Ana, is the CEO said, yes, it was his job and authorized to be there. What he didn't mention was they were way out of protocol in that you never ever tow an aircraft, particular at SeaTac, you never tow an aircraft unless there's two people involved. So the fact he was able to get the tow hooked up, get the aircraft out there, and move it out there, because he has to call and ask for clearance, and that's usually what the second person does. So they need to really look at their process and procedures and see what fell through the cracks here because this should not have happened.

[15:05:09] CABRERA: This is in the top-10 busiest airports in the country at the very least.

Colonel Francona, this we now know ended with one person who died, the person who was in the plane. It could have been so much worse.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILTIARY ANALYST: Absolutely. That's why it was so critical to get the fighters into the area as fast as possible. They came from Portland International. There was an Air National Guard base there and they scrambled these two fighters. They went on after burner to get up to the area. It's 100 miles away. They closed that in a few minutes. And once they're in the area, they had to assess just how potentially dangerous this was. No one knew what this flyer had in mind. Was he going to turn that aircraft toward downtown Seattle? Was he going to go after a sports stadium? The Space Needle? A whole lot of things these guys didn't know. So they had to get up there quickly and assess the situation and then take whatever action. Fortunately, it didn't require any action on the part of the military. They just kept him away from populated areas. And it appears that he either had an accident or took his own life.

CABRERA: We do know he was in communication because we played some of the audio from the air traffic control radio signal. Did this guy have any chance of landing this plane safely? Do you think they would have been able to talk him through it?

FRANCONA: Everybody said we're surprised he was able to take it off. It's a twin-engine aircraft. You have to coordinate the engines through signal-line thrust. So, and he was able to fly a barrel roll, recover from that loop and do a turn. I think some of the audio said he was having one problem with an engine. I think he may have run out of gas. He might have been able to get it down on the ground. Who know? He did more than anybody thought he could do.

CABRERA: David, who is responsible for securing these planes and, typically, how secure are they?

SOUCIE: Oddly enough, it's the ground service agent himself that's responsible for securing the airplane. And so that's where the breakdown is here. But once again, even that ground service agent has to have two people present at all times. So the fact he was out there by himself, towing the aircraft by himself and disconnecting and connecting the tow bar and then moving the tractor out of the way to get it and move, the fact it happened without even being noticed by anyone on the ground, service crew, it's phenomenal to me. That's such an oversight. And I think somebody got very complacent about their jobs if they weren't watching him do that and raising the right questions.

CABRERA: Based on what we heard at that press conference, it sounds like he wasn't necessarily out of place. And so there wasn't an automatic red flag, per se.

However, I wonder, are there alarm systems set up inside these aircraft. Is there a key he would have had to use in order to turn it on? How did he know where to begin when it comes to controls? And would there have been barriers in place for somebody like him wanting to get behind the controls?

SOUCIE: No, there really isn't. There's no key. Other than to the door. And it can be secured there. But during an operation, the aircraft is on a live tarmac, it would not be locked. It would be open. So anyone with the ground clearance could get on board that aircraft and move it and even fly it. But there's many, many layers that still go on that we don't really have time to get into. But there had to be three different layers of security that were breached here. And listening to the CEO, he's not mentioning those. He is saying he had the right to be there. Sure, he had the right to be there, but the fact what he was doing there, there's two other levels of security of people watching and checking and seeing where his I.D. is and where he is and what's going on in the tarmac. All of that should have been noticed from air traffic control all the way down to the ground operators themselves.

CABRERA: When we talk about the response, Colonel, you mention the F- 15 jets that were scrambles. We know they were armed but didn't interfere in that way. They let things play out. Why do you think that was the case?

FRANCONA: Nobody wants to shoot down an unarmed civilian airliner. You want to solve these problems with as little violence or damage as possible. As long as he was not presenting a risk to other people, they were willing to give him the time he needed or the air traffic controllers time they needed to get him to comply with their direction. So the two pilots, the two F-15 pilots were there as a safety measure. Had things gone worse though, they were prepared to use those weapons. The next step would have been to punch, to get in front of him and deploy some flares to get his attention and try to convince him he needed to comply with air traffic control. Had this gone on further, had he presented a threat to a civilian area, then there's a possibility that those jets would have been ordered to shoot that plane down.

[15:10:00] CABRERA: Do you think, Colonel, that radio, what we heard in terms of their communication, made a big difference, giving them at least the slight idea maybe his motive that it wasn't a terrorist behind the controls?

FRANCONA: I listened to the air traffic control tapes and I listened to the Air Force tapes, and these controllers did a good job. Maintaining form, trying to talk this guy down, trying to reason him rather than threatening him, and they let him make the decision. So I think they handled that rather well. And I think they were able to assess that he wasn't a threat to civilian areas. If you listen to the conversation, he said, no, I don't want to go to McChord Field, I don't want to get involved in that. And then when they said, we know, we want to move you away from the airport so you don't disrupt our operations, he said, yes, I don't want everybody -- I don't want to destroy everybody's day. So he did exhibit some rationale that he wasn't going to threaten anyone except himself.

CABRERA: Colonel Rick Francona and David Soucie, thank you both for being with us.

SOUCIE: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: Another unbelievable moment. Dramatic dash cam video showing the moment a Pennsylvania state trooper nearly loses his life. Got much more to show you. We'll tell you how this unfolded.

Plus, change in Charlottesville. A year later, a much different scene. How last year's violence changed the national conversation on race.

And the Giuliani factor. The president's attorney making a slew of TV and radio appearances this week. What's his strategy? Defense Attorney Mark Geragos will join us to discuss.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:15:45] (GUNFIRE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: This stunning dash cam video just helped convict a man of attempted murder after a shootout with Pennsylvania state troopers. This gun battle happened last year but prosecutors just released this dramatic footage just this week. It started when Daniel Clary was pulled over for speeding. Troopers tried to administer a sobriety test but Clary started to fight. He fell into traffic after one of the troopers tased him and then somehow managed to get up and grab a gun from his car. That's when he opened fire on the two officers. He then jumped in his car and took off. Corporal Kelly was hit and nearly died at the scene. He spent 12 days in a coma. The other officer was not seriously hurt. Clary was arrested when he showed up at a hospital with a gunshot wound to the head.

Big developments rocking the political world today. Congressman Chris Collins is now pulling out of his race for reelection as he fights insider trading charges. The New York Republican initially said he would maintain his campaign but, today, a change of heart. He's announced he's suspending it in, quote, "the best interest of his constituents, and party and President Trump's agenda." Collins was the first member of Congress, by the way, to endorse President Trump for presidency. If convicted on all charges for allegedly tipping off his son about a biotech firm, Collins could face up to 150 years in prison.

Far-right conspiracy theorists, Alex Jones, now banned on Facebook, YouTube, Apple and Spotify for breaking the rules. By Twitter us defend its decision not to ban, even though he broke the rules, they say. We have details live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:21:59] CABRERA: This is just in. President Trump in the last few minutes hurling fresh insults at his own Attorney General Jeff Sessions. The president's latest tweet storm coming just before he's about to meet with hundreds of Bikers for Trump for a photo-op at his New Jersey resort as he continues his summer vacation.

Let's go to White House correspondent, Boris Sanchez, who is on the scene there.

Boris, what is the president saying?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, there, Ana. The running theme is that President Trump wants to focus on accomplishments made by his administration, but those accomplishments have continued to be overshadowed by a number of controversies and, obviously, the Russia investigation.

President Trump this morning tweeting about the unemployment rate before, just a few moments ago, as you noted, turning his ire towards Democrats and the press. Here's what the president tweeted. He writes, quote, "The big story that the fake news media refuses to report is lowlife Christopher Steele's many meetings with Deputy A.G. Bruce Ohr and his beautiful wife, Nelly. It was Fusion GPS that hired Steele to write the phony and discredited dossier, paid for by Crooked Hillary and the DNC. Do you believe Nelly worked for Fusion and her husband still works for the Department of Justice? I've never seen anything so rigged in my life. Our attorney general is scared still and missing in action. It is all starting to be revealed, not pretty. I.G. reports soon. Witch hunt."

Now, Ana, there are a number of claims in these tweets to be fact checked. Notably, that Bruce Ohr does continue to work at the attorney general's office, however, he's been devoted within the Department of Justice.

Further, the president continues and his surrogates continue to argue this dossier, which is not fully discredited, some parts have been substantiated, he argues that that dossier was the basis of the Russian investigation. In fact, we know through the release of DOJ documents that it was this drunken meeting in London by a former Trump aide, George Papadopoulos who told British officials that the Trump campaign had made contact with Russian officials who promised dirt on Hillary Clinton. Again, plenty to fact check in these tweets but, of course, the

president wants the drive up the base as he has in the past to draw into question the legitimacy of the Russia investigation -- Ana?

CABRERA: Facts, facts, facts.

Boris Sanchez, thank you.

President Trump also tweeting about Charlottesville. Today is the one-year anniversary of the deadly violence that erupted at a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville. The president writes, "The riots in Charlottesville a year ago resulted in senseless death and division. We must come together as a nation. I condemn all types of racism and acts of violence. Peace to all Americans."

Right now, the entire state of Virginia is under a state of emergency because of this anniversary.

Let's get right to correspondent, Kaylee Hartung, in Charlottesville.

We know there are events planned there. Kaylee, how are police planning to keep the peace?

[15:24:58] KAYLEE HARTUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, so much of the violence that we saw in Charlottesville last year, right here in these downtown streets, the downtown mall area now secured by a perimeter. Metal and concrete barricades stopping any vehicles from crossing the downtown streets. Entry points for pedestrians, just two of them, just like this one behind me, where bags are searched and any implements of riot are taken. We've been told that a couple of cans of aerosol spray and brass knuckles have been taken. But no one has been denied entry onto the downtown mall.

Everyone I have spoken with today said their purpose for coming down here is to heal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(SHOUTING)

HARTUNG (voice-over): Last summer, Charlottesville became a battleground.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN ANCHOR: Clashes have erupted between white supremacists and protesters.

CABRERA: Terror in Virginia. One person is dead.

(SCREAMING)

HARTUNG: One year later, a new team of officials are vowing not to let history repeat itself.

RASHALL BRACKNEY, CHIEF, CHARLOTTESVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT: We have to own that we did not live up to our training, our oath, but we have the opportunity to recover and get it right. HARTUNG: After a sharply critical report placed blame on the

Charlottesville Police Department for its failure to contain the violence and protect the public --

AL THOMAS, FORMER CHIEF, CHARLOTTESVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT: This is not a law enforcement event. This is a public safety endeavor.

HARTUNG: -- Chief Al Thomas retired. RaShall Brackney took over two months ago.

BRACKNEY: I walked into this position. I did walk in in some ways with my eyes wide open, but I didn't realize probably the extent and the breadth and width of what that responsibility would be, because I had not really had the opportunity to hear how hurt this community was and still hadn't healed.

HARTUNG (on camera): The first images of hate America saw in Charlottesville came from here.

(SHOUTING)

HARTUNG (voice-over): The night before the planned and permitted alt- right rally, white nationalists marched on to the University of Virginia campus with tiki torches. The visual was startling. But that wasn't the worst we'd see.

(on camera): The next morning, violence in this intersection as police looked on just outside the park where General Robert E. Lee's statue stands.

(SHOUTING)

HARTUNG: So-called alt-right activists, chanting racist slogans, carrying guns and Confederate flags, clashed with anti-racist and anti-fascist counter protesters. Then, the day turned deadly.

(on camera): This street where James Alex Fields Jr allegedly barreled his car into a group of counter protesters, it remains a memorial to Heather Heyer.

(voice-over): Heyer was killed in the attack, 35 others injured. The driver, a Nazi sympathizer, will be tried for murder and federal hate crimes.

There was anger and outrage in reaction not only to the violence but the hateful rhetoric on open display here.

TERRY MCAULIFFE, (D), FORMER VIRGINIA GOVERNOR: I have a message to all the white supremacists and Nazis that came into Charlottesville today. Our message is plain and simple. Go home. You are not wanted in this great commonwealth. Shame on you.

HARTUNG: Then --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Very fine people, on both sides. HARTUNG: President Trump's refusal to condemn the racist attack and

its immediate aftermath further inflamed the national conversation.

(on camera): When you think about the flashpoint that Charlottesville was in this country for the dialogue around race relations, where do you think we are one year later?

BRACKNEY: So I don't know if we, as a city or even as a nation, have had that real honest dialogue about equities, in terms of really moving the needle forward. I'm not sure that we've actually instituted policies, procedures or even support that could help move the conversation beyond the conversation.

HARTUNG: And so the conversation continues this weekend, as the second Unite the Right rally organizes in the nation's capital.

Here in Charlottesville, the focus will be on continued healing.

Chief Brackney says the city has an all-encompassing plan for whatever or whoever the weekend may bring.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARTUNG: This law enforcement presence in downtown Charlottesville as well as this secure perimeter will be in place until Monday morning. And it's being met with mixed reaction from members of this community, Ana. While some say they feel it's an overcorrection from the failures of a year ago, others say they welcome it and they welcome the inconvenience to feel the safety that they do here.

CABRERA: Better safe than sorry. Chilling to remember those events a year ago.

Kaylee Hartung, thank you so much.

Far-right conspiracy theorist, Alex Jones, now banned on Facebook, YouTube, Apple and Spotify for breaking the rules. But Jones can keep tweeting for now. Jones, the founder of InfoWars, has used social media platforms to spread fake conspiracy theories. Twitter finally admitted Jones and InfoWars have violated the company's content rules but decided their accounts would remain online.

Joining us now, CNN senior media reporter, Oliver Darcy. He has been all over this story.

Oliver, you led CNN's review of Jones and InfoWars Twitter accounts. Talk about your findings and why Twitter decided not to change his position.

[15:29:04] OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Right, let's go back earlier this week. Twitter continues to stand alone, where Apple, YouTube and Facebook, you saw them remove Alex Jones' content from the platforms. Apple removed the iTunes podcast and pages, so on and so forth. But Twitter at the time said they were not going to take any action and, specifically, the CEO said that InfoWars and Alex Jones had not violated the rules. He tweeted on Tuesday night, "We didn't suspend Alex Jones or InfoWars yesterday. We know that's hard for many, but the reason is simple, he hasn't violated our rules. We'll enforce it if he does."

AT CNN, we did a quick review and it took me about two days to go through Alex Jones' and InfoWars' Twitter accounts and kind of look at it and compare it to the terms of service. And we found multiple violations in the terms of service from Alex Jones and InfoWars, content that degraded Muslims, that degraded members of the gay and transgender community, engaging harassments of individuals, so on and so forth. A lot of violations.

And so yesterday, finally Twitter got back to us, and they now admit, contrary to what Jack Dorsey, the CEO, said on Tuesday, yes, Alex Jones has violated their terms of service, but they're not going to take any action, at least for the time being.

CABRERA: Did they explain why? I mean, they're just letting this go?

DARCY: I think that's the question many people are confused about, right? They promised action earlier in the week if there were violations, and now admit there are violations, but they're not taking any meaningful action. I think they're waiting for more violations possibly, but the company won't say exactly how many violations it would take for them to suspend or move Alex Jones' accounts from the platform.

CABRERA: In the meantime, you did see that the videos that you had flagged that had violations, those were removed?

DARCY: Immediately after we published our story, all the tweets that were included in our report suddenly vanished from Twitter. A Twitter spokesperson said they didn't remove the content, but later, would require it if they found violations. But Alex Jones said on Friday he had instructed his staff to remove it preemptively. I think he's really worried, Ana, that he's going to lose Twitter, and it's his last portal into the main conversation because he's been suspended from Apple, YouTube and Facebook. So really, I think, he is worried he's going to lose Twitter. He told the staff to immediately delete the tweets and they did.

CABRERA: He took action, Twitter not so much. We'll see where this goes.

Oliver Darcy, stay on top of it for us.

DARCY: Thank you.

CABRERA: Thank you.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller making it clear this week Rudy Giuliani's September deadline isn't a priority for him. So what was Giuliani's strategy there? We'll discuss next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:37:20] CABRERA: Robert Mueller just gave us a big sign he doesn't care about Rudy Giuliani's unofficial September deadline for ending the investigation. How do we know? Because Mueller just subpoenaed Randy Credico. Credico is the guy who Roger Stone claimed was his back channel to WikiLeaks. Mueller wants Credico to testify on September 7th. That's a week past Giuliani's deadline.

Here's a reminder of what Giuliani said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: You do not want to run into the November elections. So back up from that. This should be over with by September 1st.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Giuliani also went on "Hannity" and said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: I think if it's not over by September, we have a very serious violation of the Justice Department rules. Shouldn't conduct one of these in the 60-day period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We should note there's no rule or custom at the Department of Justice that requires Mueller to end the investigation before midterm elections in November. And other investigations similar to Mueller's have taken place during both midterm and presidential elections. Both the Iran-Contra and Whitewater investigations lasted nearly seven years. Mueller's investigation has lasted over a year at this point. So what exactly is Giuliani doing by setting arbitrary deadlines in the name of DOJ rules that don't exist?

To help answer that question, I want to bring in high-profile defense attorney, Mark Geragos.

Mark, always good to see you.

MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good to see you, too.

CABRERA: Extra treat to have you here in New York with me.

GERAGOS: I'm wearing long pants.

(LAUGHTER)

CABRERA: No shorts.

You get that if you follow Mark on Twitter.

What do you think Giuliani is doing here? Is he really trying to give a deadline to Mueller? GERAGOS: Yes, he is. I think what he's trying to do is there's a lot

of fencing going on. People have to understand, there's a political component but a criminal defense component and they know that Mueller is closing in on them. Not only in your set-up piece, talking about Credico but also the OAC contempt on Miller, one of the chiefs of staff. They know Roger Stone is literally in the cross hairs, is about to get, if not, if they haven't already done it under seal, some kind of an indictment. They want to end this thing.

CABRERA: Why do they care if Roger Stone gets indicted because that's not the president? The president said, I don't have anything to do with it. He's friends with Roger Stone, but it doesn't impact him.

GERAGOS: Roger Stone is a self-proclaimed dirty trickster. They've got the Manafort trial going on and hope to convict Manafort. They, meaning Mueller. In order for him to roll, because he'll be facing the rest of his life in a federal prison. They want, at the same time -- but I'll tell you, if Manafort is acquitted, it's very likely that, at that point, Trump will use that as kind of the backdrop for, I'm ending this investigation, I'm done with this investigation.

[15:40:13] CABRERA: There's nothing there.

GERAGOS: Yes. He's going to -- exactly, and I think that's why they're just waiting for this to unfold. They had been -- they've gotten more brave as the judge in that case, in Manafort's trial, has made increasingly skeptical comments about the prosecution in that case. I mean, it's been a battle between Mueller's --

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: They're not exactly waiting for the trial to unfold though. Because just today, in fact, within the last hour, this is what Trump tweets. He's calling the Attorney General Jeff Sessions "scared stiff and missing in action." It doesn't sound like somebody who's being patient. That sounds like he's applying pressure.

GERAGOS: I think he is trying to apply some pressure. I think he's waiting -- if he feels like a verdict comes in this week, he'll take action. That's my -- I think Trump will do something. I don't think they're going to wait, sit back and let them indict more people and try to get somebody to roll.

I also don't think, given everything going on concurrently with this investigation, with the meeting at Trump Tower, I don't think they're going to wait and see if Don Jr gets indicted either. I think he understands, at this point, this is a death-grip type war and he's not going to let them win it.

CABRERA: There's been all the talk about a perjury trap, right, and whether the president will sit down with Mueller. And Rudy Giuliani said, well, we will as long as it's not a perjury trap. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GIULIANI: The reality is he doesn't need to ask a single question on obstruction. He has all the answers. They're not going to change. The president not going to change his testimony. So stop the nonsense. You are trying to trap him into perjury because you don't have a case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Mark, quickly, is there a such thing as a perjury trap?

GERAGOS: There is. There is. That's a real deal. That's something you have to worry about. I'm one of the few people who's ever had not one but two clients who have gone to federal prison, rather than testify. Susan McDougal in the Whitewater case and (INAUDIBLE) in the Barry Bonds investigation, because they both feared they were going to get charged with perjury. They felt like the prosecution had a script, and if you didn't sing along with that or if you didn't read from their script, that you were going to get into a perjury trap. As a criminal defense lawyer, that's something to be concerned about. Why put your client in harm's way? It almost is the situation where you find somebody like Rick Gates, who was Manafort's partner, who pled to a 1001, a false statement. It wasn't the original crime. It was trying to cover it up after --

(CROSSTALK)

GERAGOS: -- and lying after. So it could be false statements, it could be a perjury. It's never something that you would let your client go in willingly, and especially in this case.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Thank you so much, Mark Geragos.

GERAGOS: Thank you.

CABRERA: Good to see you.

Courting the female vote. We traveled to Pennsylvania to talk to a crucial block of swing-state voters, suburban women, face to face. We'll bring you their interview live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:35] CABRERA: The 2016 election reinforced one important reality, the power of suburban women. As a voting bloc, they are especially important in swing states like Pennsylvania, which President Trump won by less than 50,000 votes.

I spoke with several women there this week. Listen to what's on their minds as they talk about what issues are important to them with the midterm elections right around the corner.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: A show of hands, who plans to vote in the midterm election? Show of hands if you're voting for Republican candidates.

Show of hands if you're voting for Democratic candidates.

You still are making up your mind?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

CABRERA: There has been a huge focus in this year's election on courting the suburban female vote. What do you make of that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think they're actually doing it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think so either.

CABRERA: What is important to you, Sarah?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Safety of children. Gun safety, I don't believe it's a gun issue. I believe it's a safety of our children and a safety of our schools issue. Infrastructure, I look around at the crumbling roads that I drive on every day.

CABRERA: I see you nodding your head, and I know politically affiliated on different sides.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right, but they're all common issues. We all want our kids to be safe in their schools. We all want colleges to prepare our students to get jobs when they graduate.

CABRERA: Danielle, you're a college student. What is the single biggest issue that's influencing your vote?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For me, as a business student, definitely the economy. Need less regulations, less unnecessary spending from the government, lower taxes on, you know, the middle class.

CABRERA: What speaks to you, June?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the economy. I think if we could get a strong economy, and one way of doing that would be the infrastructure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My main issue is prevention of gun violence. My oldest little girl is 4.5, going into pre-K. I feel I should not be receiving e-mails regarding my school's, you know, active-shooter policies. I think that's atrocious. It's not OK.

CABRERA: On a scale of one to 10, one being barely and 10 being it's everything, how big is Trump weighing into the

[15:50:01] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I like many of his policies. And I hope that people in Congress can help him to push those policies through, so I'll say a nine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I definitely don't want to vote for someone who campaigns on being of an obstructionist and I won't let the president do anything he wants. To probably an eight. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I like Trump very much. So I would probably aa

nine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm on the other side of the spectrum where I despise him. Everything he has done to date I am completely morally and ethically opposed to me it is motivating me to vote but because of opposite reasons.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heartily agree with that statement. I would say nine. Actually back in 2016, I was registered a Republican. And I voted in the primary for John Kasich. And I believe Trump don't represent I believe at the core a Republican Party.

CABRERA: What is it that bothers you the most.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His behavior. I could talk about it for a very long time.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have probably quite the laundry list. Mocking the disabled. Calling people animals. Calling people racist. It's everything. Whether -- what you say matters. Words and actions matter.

CABRERA: Does this president's rhetoric bother you as Trump voters as Republicans?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well we don't have to call people names and stuff. I mean that to me is bullying and stuff on a playground.

CABRERA: So is it OK for this president, the current president to use the kind of language that he does, whether it's on Twitter or on TV?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am not here to defend some of the tweets the president has made.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he shouldn't tweet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I think it's a big difference between what the president says and what he does.

CABRERA: What do you make of his Twitter attacks against foreign leaders, against people of color, against athletes, against the media, against the Justice Department?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, I think all the tweets should be looked at on a case by case basis. You know, he did say -- he did put comments towards Kim Jong-Un. But then they had a meeting. And that was a bigger deal than the tweets.

CABRERA: So you're willing to overlook those?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that's not, you know, what's hurting America the most right now are his tweets. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm really concerned he don't represent

Americans. You know, he is out there. He is on the international circuit. And people are looking at him and thinking, is this what America is about. Is this what America is becoming? It's awful abusive behavior.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He may have been popular in the election but he wasn't the most popular. We also forget that.

CABRERA: He did win in this state. Do you hear what they are saying and you disagree?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I disagree. I think there's a big difference between what one says and what one does.

CABRERA: But do the words matter?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess it depends on the situation. But the words -- we don't know what words are said between President Trump and Kim Jong-Un individually.

CABRERA: But publicly he has insulted our allies and praised people like Putin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's.

CABRERA: Or Kim Jong-Un.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's tactical.

CABRERA: You're OK with that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Um-hum.

CABRERA: Thoughts, Danielle, do words matter?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think actions matter, too. You know our economy is looking really good. Unemployment is at one of the lowest it's been in decades. And I think that stuff matters, too.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: And we also talked to these women, these suburban voters about the Mueller probe. We want you to hear what they say. Stick around.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dean Martin seems like he was the straight man. And Jerry Lewis called himself a monkey. But it was more complex than that. Unlike Hope and Crosby, which were funny guys. Jerry Lewis was 20 years old he a certain appeal. And Dean Martin had this easy going style that women loved, men loved. And they were a post-war phenomenon.

(MUSIC) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Martin and Lewis were bigger than the Beatles would eventually become. They were massive. There were tens of thousands of people on the streets lining up to see them and they created this mass hysteria of comedy.

(CHEERING)

JERRY LEWIS, COMEDIAN: I'll tell you what, want to come up for coffee?

(CHEERING)

LEWIS: We ain't got any.

(CHEERING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Martin and Lewis transcended their material in a huge way.

LEWIS: Yes, but I'm not --

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN MARTIN, COMEDIAN & SINGER: No, no. You be a good boy, be a nice boy, after the show, I'll take you to the park and we'll paint socks on statues.

(LAUGHTER)

[15:55:04] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The root of what makes chemistry work for people like that, it seems like they love each other. Martin and Lewis did have that. They loved each other at one point at the beginning, but then they hated each other towards the end.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: We want to take a moment to honor this week's "CNN Hero." Neal Bermas trains at-risk young adults for a career in the booming culinary and hospitality industry in Vietnam. And if you are visiting, you can experience a taste of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

[16:00:02] NEAL BERMAS, CNN HERO: We developed this Oodles of Noodles. It's not quite a tour. It's not quite a cooking class. It's not quite a demonstration.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We show the guests how to cook rice noodles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes, yes, yes.