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Father in Custody, Bodies Found Believed to Be Pregnant Wife & Kids; D.C. Mayor Fights Back after Trump Blames Military Parade's Soaring Costs on Local Officials; Jury Sends Another Note to Judge in Manafort Trial. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired August 17, 2018 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: With me now CNN's Martin Savidge.

Martin, this morning I watched those sweet Facebook videos, and you just wonder how. The judge sealed the arrest affidavit, we know. He's still not been charged, correct?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORERSPONDENT: Not formally charged, yes, you're right about that. That sound bite coming from the neighbor is expressing what everybody feels, how could this have happened, why would this have happened. A family that looks like in the public image as if they had everything picture perfect. You're right.

The judge has sealed the arrest order. That would have probably given us some insight as to where investigators are going with this other than the obvious, including such things as what may have been a motive here. We do not know. Also what may have been the means by which they all died. We don't know that either. And so these are the questions that still get a lot of people. There will have to be formal charges by early next week. That's when the next court appearance is going to be, next Tuesday.

Another thing that was asked, and police were cryptic about, was there anybody else involved and authorities would only say there's no one else involved through which the community has to fear or believe there's danger. So it leaves open the fact there could be someone else, just not someone else who's considered dangerous -- Brooke?

BALDWIN: I'm sure the family is reeling. He spoke with that local affiliate the day before, he said they'd had some emotional argument after his wife had come home from a work trip, and then just --

SAVIDGE: Yes. First of all, how many times have we seen this almost where a person who now has become a prime suspect have been out there pleading, and it looks as if the authorities -- and the authorities will claim in this case Chris Watts knew exactly where his family was because he put them there. He had murdered them. It has not been proven and the charges have not been formalized here. But that's the hypocrisy and the monstrous mindset that many people look at there.

The family is devastated. The community is devastated. It's only got 8,500 people in it. Everyone knows about this family and almost everyone is struck by why. Why? BALDWIN: Martin, thank you.

Still ahead here, the sentencing process for one of Mueller's star witnesses, former Trump campaign adviser, George Papadopoulos, who famously cut a plea deal is set to begin soon. Why his wife is saying he should abandon that deal.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:36:38] BALDWIN: In what can only be described as a sudden reversal of the military parade President Trump has been wanting, it has now been canceled. Pentagon personnel are postponing the parade after media outlets reporting the cost this has gone from $12 million to somewhere in the neighborhood of $92 million. That's according to some reports. The president blamed local D.C. politicians for running up the cost, tweeting that, quote, "They know a windfall when they see it."

But check out this tweet from the Washington, D.C., Mayor Muriel Bowser. She hit back with her own tween, saying, she's quote, "The local politician that got through to the reality star in the White House." And said the parade cost would have topped $21 million."

With me now, American Legion national commander, Denise Rohan.

Denise, welcome.

Obviously, some shade from the D.C. mayor. How do you see this? Money better spent elsewhere?

DENISE ROHAN, NATIONAL COMMANDER, AMERCIAN LEGION: Well, the American Legion has long had a relationship with the president. We're almost 100 years old and in those 100 years we have had the opportunity to advise the president on several issues. And the veterans across this nation feel that $12 million, $90 million, however many millions of dollars that money would be better spent taking care of our veterans and their families and our military personnel than to spend that money on a parade in Washington, D.C. Hopefully, when the war is over and we have something really to celebrate, that might be the time to have a parade. But just not right now.

BALDWIN: I don't know if you've heard how Secretary of Defense Mattis put it when he was -- he had heard some of these reports about estimates ballooning into the $92 million range. Here was how he put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JAMES MATTIS, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Whoever told you that is probably smoking something that's legal in my state but not in most states. I'm not dignifying that number with any replay. They probably said I need to stay anonymous. No kidding because you look like an idiot.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: So he's not mincing words, the secretary there. We know that the Pentagon postponed the military parade but today the president says he says no, no, no, it was he who canceled it because he realized it was too expensive.

ROHAN: Well, whoever canceled it, however it was canceled, we're just happy to see that it happened at this time. Like I said, that money would be so much better spent taking care of our veterans, our V.A. hospital system, getting those 33,000 po 33,000 positions filled within the V.A. health care system, taking care of military personnel, their families. Having a parade right now just doesn't seem like the right time to do it.

BALDWIN: Do you like the idea of a parade? I know you said earlier maybe when the wars are over. Who knows when that day may be, but the notion of honoring our U.S. military and veterans with some sort of parade with maybe a smaller price tag, what's your solution?

ROHAN: Well, if you've seen American Legions, we always have parades, Memorial Day, Veterans Day --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I've been in some of those.

ROHAN: -- all of those parades. We're happy to have parades. It's just those price tags. As a taxpayer, there's so much more that money could be used for.

[14:40:07] BALDWIN: We thank you for all of your work with the American Legion. It is precious, precious in this country.

Denise Rohan, thank you for your time.

ROHAN: You bet. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Breaking news now in the trial of former Trump campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. The jury has just delivered a new note to the judge. We'll take you back live to the courthouse next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just a quick update. Of course, we're watching for you the jury is deliberations, day two there in Alexandria, Virginia. The federal courthouse. The man on your screen, Paul Manafort, faces 18 counts fax fraud, et cetera. The latest we have from inside that courthouse is that the judge has now been handed another note from the jury. What is in the note? We don't know yet, but we're working to find out. As soon as we get it or any information regarding the trial or upcoming potential verdict, we'll pass it along to you live.

[14:45:22] Meantime, I want to come back to what's what happened in Pennsylvania. Crisis hotlines lit up within 24 hours of a grand jury report about priest sex abuse going public. Pennsylvania's attorney general tweeted this: "Our hotline for clergy sex abuse has been lit up since yesterday afternoon. And 150-plus calls, e-mails and lots of survivors who are now surfacing to tell their stories and seek justice."

The Vatican's response not so swift. Finally, after two full days of silence the Vatican's press office released this, quote, "Regarding the report made public in Pennsylvania this week, there are two words that can express the feelings faced with these horrible crimes, shame and sorrow."

The grand jury who listened to the victims isn't just releasing numbers. More than 1,000 children abused by 300 priests over the course of 70 years. The suffering is public as well.

I want to play something for you. It is difficult to listen to, but it's important to hear from one survivor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED SURVIVOR: The word God makes me think of him and I just -- he would always have his hands on me. I didn't feel comfortable at all. I still don't feel comfortable now in relationships.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So much to get into. Anthea Butler is a religious studies professor at the University of Pennsylvania and is joining us this afternoon. As is Jennifer Fulwiler, who is a radio host on Sirius XM and the author of "Something Other Than God," a memoir chronicling her journey from atheist to Catholic convert.

Ladies, thank you for joining ne.

Jennifer, you first.

You've been on the receiving end of so many calls on your show this week, of people pre-Vatican reaction. What have people been saying.

JENNIFER FULWILER, RADIO HOST & AUTHOR: My lines have been blowing up and the one encouraging thing I've been seeing, Brooke, is that people are ready to take action. They're saying I bet you guys wish we would leave, we would walk away. We are going to stay. We're going to get all up in the business of the hierarchy. We are going to be part of the solution.

BALDWIN: So they're seeing it as -- they're seeing it as they're taking action, but how crushing, how emotional has it been for people, some of whom I imagine haven't even spoken about their own stories.

FULWILER: I've had callers who have called in with those kinds of stories. There really aren't words. They're saying this is one of the reasons it's tempting to run away from it. It is a level of evil that you can't even process. How can you even wrap your mind around it?

BALDWIN: You mention level of evil. I was reading your opinion piece where you call the Catholic Church a pedophile ring and in your piece you tell the story of a girl who rose into a young woman who for a number of years had been raped by the same priest and you write that his punishment was to lead a life of prayer and penance. Can you tell me about that?

ANTHEA BUTLER, RELIGIOUS STUDIES PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF PENSSYLVANIA: I think that this is very common for what happens with priests back before 2002 when they were accused of sexually abusing children. They were usually moved around. They were provided for. They were also told to examine themselves in penance. But I think what this grand jury report shows is the way this is systematically happening within the church. I think this is what people need to understand. I can appreciate what Jennifer is talking about in terms of people wanting to stay in the church and fight, but when you're talking about an institution that moves very slowly, the only thing that seems to really put the pressure on them is legal action. I think we're at a point with the church that it's not going to take just lay people working with bishops and cardinals and things like to make changes. It's going to take legal action. That is the only way I have seen the Catholic Church really move in these kinds of situations.

BALDWIN: I was talking to Mike, who was part of that whole spotlight crew out of Boston, exposing all of this in Boston, and he was saying why is it the A.G. who is the one in Pennsylvania, who is the one wanting answers instead of church saying something has been wrong, something has been rotten and we need to fix it. This is what the Vatican has now finally said in their response, "The abuses described in the report are criminal and morally reprehensible. Those acts were betrayals of trust that robbed survivors of their dignity and faith. The church must learn hard lessons from its past and there should be accountability from abusers and those who permitted abuse to occur."

Jennifer, to hear the word criminal, how did that sit with those who have long suffered in silence, those calling it and reacting?

[14:50:15] FULWILER: It's just a word. We didn't hear action. That is what the people I'm talking to want. OK. The Vatican feels bad. We are glad to know that, but where is the encouragement to get bishops to contact their local district attorney and say I want to know if something was covered up 50, 40, 30 years ago. Where is the action, the encouragement, the demand that bishops all over the world contact secular law enforcement and say we want investigation by outside authorities? That is what the people I'm talking to are looking for, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So, Anthea, I know you said legal action a moment ago, which sounds -- assumes to echo what Jennifer has been hearing. What would legal action look like?

BUTLER: Well, let me say something Jennifer said and let you know what really is happening. They can say they want legal action but in the state of Pennsylvania they're still fighting so that the statute of limitations is not lifted so that people can sue. The Catholic Church has a lot of power and a lot of money. Until they decide, they're going to let loose some of their money and go ahead and let those people be done, I don't think we're going to be seeing bishops turning people in. They are reporting what they have to do but in the past they have not had that. I don't think we can count on our bishops unfortunately to do the job they're supposed to do. I hate to say that as somebody who is Catholic, but I have seen time and time again where they do not do what they're supposed to do and I think that that 1,000-plus page report shows you they are not capable of doing this because they live under a different kind of law in the church and they're not living under the laws of the land. But they are subject to them just the same.

BALDWIN: Quickly, Anthea, how much difference do you think it would make if and when the pope actually addresses this? Because he hasn't yet?

BUTLER: Yes. Well, I think that this might actually happen next week because he's going to be in Ireland and I'm hoping that he's going to address it. But he didn't do too well when he talked about Chile. That was a big problem and he had to rescind what he said when he didn't believe the stories he heard. I think for Pope Francis, this is a very big turning point. I think he needs to be decisive about this. The previous pope, Pope Benedict, did some things in order to turn back the sex abuse crisis in the church, but now this is a watershed moment and we're going through the second big round of this in the United States and I don't think this is going to sit well.

BALDWIN: Let's keep having the conversations.

Anthea and Jennifer, thank you, ladies, so very much opinion.

We've got to go back to the breaking news. All eyes on the federal courthouse, the trial of former Trump campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. We're trying to learn what was in that note that the jury just delivered to the judge.

We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:57:30] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We've got breaking news in the trial of Paul Manafort out of Virginia here. The jury has just delivered a note to the judge.

And Jessica Schneider, our justice correspondent, is just outside the courthouse.

So, Jessica, tell me what was in this note.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, this note simply says these jurors are almost ready for their weekend. This is the second note we've seen from this jury. Today alone, they've been deliberating five hours and just a few minutes ago they sent that note to the judge and it says judge, at 5:00 today we want to be released for the weekend and coming back to reconvene to continue deliberating on Monday. Apparently one of the jurors does have an event tonight. That's why they want that 5:00 out time. But it really shows you they are going through these 18 counts pretty painstakingly. We kind of saw hints of that in the note yesterday. There are 18 counts here. They're complicated legal matters dealing with tax filings, bank fraud as well as foreign bank accounts. So these jurors are really checking off all the boxes it seems. They are not ready to issue a verdict. It's just about 3:00. We've seen these jurors deliberate today five hours. Yesterday they deliberated seven really without interruption. So now they will go back into the jury room. It's about 3:00, so at 4:50, a little less than two hours, the judge will bring them back the courtroom and dismiss them for the weekend. The only thing they will decide is what time they want to resume deliberations on Monday. The judge starts a little late on Monday. Their decision will have to be do they want to start at 11:00 a.m. or 1:00 p.m.

We always hold our breaths when these notes come, because a note could always signify a verdict. In this case, the jury now has submitted two notes to the judge, one yesterday with really a list of questions, four different questions. The judge did his best then to give them as many answers as he could. This one simply saying, OK, at 5:00 today we're ready to call it a day. It seems by that note, unless something changes very drastically in the next two hours, we likely will not see a verdict today. Instead, resuming these deliberations Monday late morning, early afternoon -- Brooke?

BALDWIN: Got it, Jessica. Thank you.

Elie Honig and Paul Callan, two of my favorite legal minds, sitting with me here. Listen, we were saying earlier Friday's verdict day. So many people thought this thing would be done. It sounds like it's not. Your initial thoughts hearing they want to go home?

[15:00:10] ELIE HONIG, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It's consistent with the note we saw yesterday. There's some jurys that get in the room and sort of look at each other and go, we're going to --