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Doctor Says Women Get Paid Less Because "They Don't Work Is Hard"; New Commander Takes Reins of NATO Forces in Afghanistan; "RGB" Premieres Tonight. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired September 3, 2018 - 15:30   ET



DR. ESTHER CHOO, FOUNDER, EQUITY QUOTIENT: We know that it's none of the things that people think it is. So, the things that Dr. Tigges has mentioned and actually the thing that other people mention in that same article. Things like choice of specialty or hours worked or clinical productivity. Some studies have looked at things like academic productivity. And there've been a number of studies looking at the quality of care that women physicians provide. And we know that women physicians on whole provide as good care as male physicians and in some circumstances even better care.

So, all the things that you might say would be reasonable explanations for paying a group of people less have not really held out when we look at the data. When you subtract out all of those things and a difference remains, the supported hypothesis is that women are paid less because of bias and discrimination.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST:: Yep, yep. And your firm actually has done a lot of research on why a gender pay gap is actually expensive for health care organizations. Why?

CHOO: That's right. Well, when you think about it, anybody who is not paid well, supported, promoted and challenged in the way that they deserve, those people are not going to thrive. You know, women are a third of the physician work force. And it's like we're just taking a big chunk of them and we are systematically underpaying them, under supporting them, undervaluing them. That is not healthy for a work force. And when we see the kind of good clinical outcomes that women have, I mean clearly this is not a good thing to our patients to have part of the body of the physicians taking care of them to be treated this way. It leads to high burnout.

Anybody working in those circumstance is likely to not reach their full potential. Many will go to part-time work or step out of leadership positions because of the way they are treated. I think when we want is a really robust working environment. And I will tell you, it's not just women who lose in this environment. It is their male colleagues too who really just want the best, the strongest clinical team that can provide the best quality care. And it's what people want. It's what patients want when they go to the hospital. They want a work force that is respected and feels valued and is able to fulfill their greatest potential, in this case it's really our greatest potential is to provide good care to our patients. And it's hard to do that in this kind of discriminatory work environment. It's 2018, it is not -- you know, we cannot tolerate this anymore.

BALDWIN: Right. Thank you. I just wanted to end with taking off your data research hat and just, you took the word out of my mouth. It's 2018. I mean for a male doctor to be saying this. To him you say what?

CHOO: To him -- I don't have a lot to say to him. I don't feel any hostility to Dr. Tigges. It's more to the institutions that highlight voices like these and think that the question to ask is, is there a salary gap? We know there's a salary gap. What I would like to hear from our medical organization is a better question. Which is how do we end the existing established salary gap?

BALDWIN: Preach. Dr. Esther Choo, thank you.

Coming up next, a new American commander is taking control in Afghanistan this week as the U.S. approaches 17 years of war there. We will take you live to Kabul with details of an apparent insider attack that killed a U.S. service member today.


BALDWIN: A grim reminder from Afghanistan just one day after assuming command of NATO-led troops the new commanding general in Afghanistan had the difficult job of announcing the death of a U.S. service member killed today in what's being referred to as an insider attack. We are told a second American was injured.

Army General Scott Miller officially took command during the ceremony in Kabul Sunday. He was among the first American soldiers to actually enter Afghanistan after 9/11. And he takes command amid three significant developments there. One today's apparent insider attack, a signal from a Taliban leader that he is ready to talk peace, number two. And number three, we are now getting confirmation that the leader of ISIS in Afghanistan is dead. I want you to listen as Miller lays out what he sees ahead.


GEN. SCOTT MILLER, COMMANDER OF U.S. AND NATO FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN: The world recognizes we cannot fail. I know this has been a long fight, and it has been generational. For us, for the Afghanistan people.

To the Taliban, I say, you don't need to keep killing your fellow Afghans. You don't need to keep killing your fellow Muslims. The time for peace is now.


BALDWIN: Let's go straight to CNN international correspondent Sam Kiley who is live for us in Kabul. Sam, first let me ask you what do you know about today's deadly attack?

SAM KILEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, details, Brooke, are still emerging but we know that one American serviceman was killed. That has been confirmed and one wounded in what in military terms is called a green on blue attack. The sort attack that we used to see much more frequently when there were more coalition troops here. Now there are only about 15,000 American troops up from 8,000 last year. Six have been killed this year.

[15:40:01] The last insider attack of this nature was back in July. The family is still being informed that this happened in the east of the country, where a great deal of the fighting, Brooke, has been concentrated.

BALDWIN: Sam, tell me more about General Miller, who just took over.

KILEY: He spent most of his career, all of his fighting career, effectively what the military call on the dark side around special forces soldiers. He was a Delta Force captain in Mogadishu during the Blackhawk Down incident in 1993. He went on to become a senior officer, commanding officer of Delta. He was here in Afghanistan in 2001 in late December when a very small number of bold young men hooked up with the northern alliance and set about trying to depose and successfully deposing the Taliban.

He's gone on, of course, to conduct operations across the world, especially in Iraq and more lately in Syria. He's got a number of men on his staff who have been responsible for toppling the so-called Islamic state in Iraq and Syria especially. And they are saying that their mission they see very much focused on getting rid of the so- called Islamic state here and the remains of Al Qaeda. Because they are the groups that pose an international threat. Unlike the Taliban, to whom the American coalition, the government's reaching out. There has been some response from the Taliban. We spoke to -- through intermediaries to a group of Taliban leaders in Tehrik. But they were quite keen -- or at least not rejecting talks from the get-go. This is what they said.


MULLAH SHER AGHA, TALIBAN COMMANDER (through translator): Peace negotiations should be among Afghans and for Afghans. We should not wait for Pakistan, Iran, Russia, or America to bring peace to Afghanistan. If people from government die, they are Afghans. If Taliban die, they are Afghans. Foreign countries are playing in Afghanistan to weaken Islam, he says.


KILEY: Now, Brooke, there have been some efforts by the Taliban to do -- to join back channel diplomatic talks even with American officials. But this is the first time really, we have been hearing from battlefield commanders. And I think that that will be seized upon by the new American commander of NATO here General Miller as he looks forward to try to focus efforts on attacking so-called Islamic state. But creating the atmosphere, or the conditions for future peace talks between the Afghans here -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: It's extraordinary, your conversation there. I appreciate that reporting. And Sam, before I let you go, let me just ask you, CNN has confirmed the ISIS leader in Afghanistan has been killed. What more do you know?

KILEY: Well he's the third ISIS leader killed this year. So as far as the coalition is concerned, the Afghan government who announced this killing about a week ago, that is a battlefield success. But it is a very hydra-headed organization the so-called Islamic state. It's not all about what military call the decapitation of the management structures. It is also trying to get rid of the idea. And interestingly, in that regard it's the Taliban that have really been doing most of the fighting against the so-called Islamic state because they find them a revolting foreign influence as much as they see the Americans and others in that same context -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Sam Kiley, live in Kabul. Sam, thank you.

To Brazil. Heart breaking images there today as the country's National Museum was destroyed by this. More than 20 million pieces of world history may be lost. We have details on what was inside.


LUIZ FERNANDO DIAS DUARTE, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, BRAZILIAN NATIONAL MUSEUM (audio): It's not Rio de Janeiro only, not Brazil only that has lost precious heritage. It's the whole humanity.



BALDWIN: Professional, litigator, role model, dissenter, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has earned countless titles and accolades during her ground-breaking legal career. And now the CNN new original film "RBG" takes an intimate look at Justice Ginsburg's life and legacy including some of the landmark cases she argued before the Supreme Court in as lawyer.

So, we are going to take you back today to 1975. Justice Ginsburg represented Stephen Weisenfeld, a young father who had lost his wife in child birth. Who sued the federal government for being denied Social Security benefits that he needed to care for his newborn son because he was a man.


STEPHEN WEISENFELD, REPRESENTED BY JUSTICE GINSBURG AND SUPREME COURT CASE: To the editor, it has been my misfortune to discover that a male cannot collect social security benefits as a woman can. Had I been paying into the Social Security system and had I died, she would have been able to receive benefit. But male home makers cannot. I wonder if Gloria Steinem knows about this.

GLORIA STEINEM: Ruth took a case in which a man was crime discriminated against in order to so the importance and depth of sex discrimination. Very intelligent thing to do.

WEISENFELD: We appeared in the United States Supreme Court in 1975. [15:50:00] When we got to the courtroom she sat me down at the table

with her. She just wanted a male presence to be at that table so the Justices would have something to identify with. That was just part of her strategy.


BALDWIN: The Supreme Court ruled 8-0 in his Weisenfeld's favor and the case declaring the unequal distribution of Social Security benefits unconstitutional. And Stephen is with me now, as is his son, Jason Weisenfeld. Gentlemen, an honor to meet you both.

WEISENFELD: Thank you. Nice to be here with you.

BALDWIN: Watched you in the film and didn't even -- let's go back to your story. You had -- you tragically lost your wife. Jason is born and you write this letter initially because you were irked that you weren't getting the same benefits because you were a man.

WEISENFELD: Yes. That's true. And also, because my wife had paid into the Social Security system for seven years. She was a schoolteacher, paid money into the system. When I asked the agent at the Social Security office, where's the money going? He just shrugged his shoulders because he didn't know either. And we thought that was very unfair that the money was sort of lost in the system.

BALDWIN: Did you wrestle with it at all, wanting to speak up about it? Or was it instant? You knew there needed to be changed.

WEISENFELD: As soon as I was talking to him, I said that this is just unfair and we needed to do something about it. I really didn't know what avenue to pursue. I needed some help in that.

BALDWIN: You got a little bit of help. You got a lot of help.

WEISENFELD: I did. I did.

BALDWIN: Let me get to that. Jason, I'm coming to you in a second and focusing on your father. Justice Ginsburg specifically took your case. Took your case as a male plaintiff and had you sit next to her during oral arguments at the Supreme Court of the United States. As part of her strategy to make it easier for men to understand that sexual discrimination existed and need to be fixed. Did you appreciate what she did at that time?

WEISENFELD: At the particular time, I wasn't exactly sure why she was asking me to sit down next to her other than --

You weren't.

WEISENFELD: -- that's what she usually does. But I did find out that after a while that she did not introduce me. She did not tell the justices who I was. She was just trying to present an image of a male as a plaintiff and that the male was being wronged because she wanted to present that side of the case even though she was also presenting the other two sides of the case being that the woman is being discriminated again, and as well as the baby being discriminated against, surviving children.

BALDWIN: You were this baby. Obviously had no idea how your father was fighting and winning. How does it feel to realize that your father that you are part of this landmark ruling?

JASON WEISENFELD, FATHER REPRESENTED BY JUSTICE GINSBURG TO SUPREME COURT CASE: Well, growing up my father was a big presence in my life. Maybe more so than other of my friend's fathers. He was at school events, chaperoned on trips and he was always there when I got home from school to help me with homework and put me to bed. And I think now realizing as I'm a parent of three young children how important it was for him to be there helps me be a better father, as well.

WEISENFELD: That's my boy.

BALDWIN: That is your boy. That is your boy. And looking at this woman, I mean, this film is absolutely stunning. As it peels back the layers of who she is and her family and the gender equality battles and her relationship with her husband. But you were lucky enough to have her officiate your weddings.

WEISENFELD: Both of us.

BALDWIN: Both of you. You have this -- this is her handwriting. You shared with me. That is letter you communicate with Justice Ginsburg.

WEISENFELD: On a regular basis, right.

BALDWIN: To both of you. What is she like in person?

WEISENFELD: She is very personal person. She is actually funny sometimes.

BALDWIN: Funny sometimes.

WEISENFELD: Even though her children may not admit to that. I think she is. She's very warm and very caring. Every time that I come up to talk to her or Lane comes into the room, she will always will get up and give a hug and that's very nice.

Of course, our thanks to speaking with them and again, don't miss "RBG", It airs tonight 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific only here on CNN.

We are back at it with breaking news today. The President once again going after his own Attorney General. Suggesting Jeff Sessions should have waited to indict two Republican congressmen who are up for reelection. This is stunning. Stay here.


BALDWIN: A mother from Wisconsin is the sole survivor of a kayaking accident that took the lives of her husband and three young children. Cari Mews and Erik Fryman set out on Lake Superior Thursday with their son and two daughters ages 3, 6 and 9. High winds hit the kayak tipping the family into the water. The mom somehow managed to send a 911 text to her sister. But the message didn't arrive until hours after. And when the Coast Guard finally arrived they just found mom alive. Despite being in 60-degree waters for nearly six hours. Crews recovered the bodies of her husband and children nearby. They were all wearing life jackets.

A massive fire has destroyed Brazil's National Museum and most of the priceless artifacts inside. The fire in Rio de Janeiro began yesterday afternoon and officials are calling the damage irreparable. Firefighters struggled to put it out because nearby hydrants weren't working. The museum holds at least 20 million rare artifacts and exhibits including Egyptian mummies, stone carvings. Investigators are still trying to determine the cause of the fire.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me again. She's added again, Dana Bash. She's in for Jake Tapper. "THE LEAD" starts now.