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WOLF

GOP Counteroffer to Ford; Trump Attacks Ford; All Sides Play Politics. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 21, 2018 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:00:00] DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you so much for joining us on INSIDE POLTICS. Hope to see you back here Sunday at 8:00 a.m. Eastern.

"WOLF" starts right now.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.

We begin with breaking news.

The latest counter proposal in negotiations with the U.S. Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh's accuser. An attorney for Christine Blasey Ford says she's willing to testify about the sexual assault accusation against Kavanaugh, but holding the hearing on Monday would be a deal breaker. And now Republicans are responding with their latest offer.

Let's go straight to our senior congressional correspondent Manu Raju.

So, Manu, what's the very latest? What are you hearing? What are Republican lawmakers proposing?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, one thing that they discussed on this conference call that they had with members of the Senate Judiciary Committee's -- the proposals that Christine Blasey Ford's camp came forward with last night. They -- Christine Blasey Ford did not want to testify on Monday. It looks like there will not be a Monday hearing. Instead, Republicans are talking about a possible Wednesday hearing. That may occur.

Now, in addition to that, Christine Blasey Ford had proposed that potentially that Brett Kavanaugh would testify first and she would testify second. That does not seem the way the Republicans are going to go. They're going to come back and say that they want Kavanaugh to go first, Christine Blasey Ford to go after.

Now, one point of contention was whether or not outside counsel would be allowed to question both Ford and Kavanaugh at that hearing. Republicans, in particular, were concerned about the optics of having 11 men on the panel question Ford. They thought about perhaps bringing in a female outside counsel to question her.

Now, Republicans are discussing that as a possibility going forward. Now, Dana Bash and Phil Mattingly, two sources have told them that that was part of the things that they were still discussing, bringing in outside counsel to come forward. It's unclear if that's ultimately what the Republicans are going to propose. There's going to be a formal proposal later today.

Now, Democrats are already rejecting the notion of any outside counsel questioning Ford and Kavanaugh. One senior Democratic aide told me that Republicans need to do the questioning. They said the senators need to do that. They're the ones who are going to vote on Kavanaugh ultimately. So that appears to be one area of negotiation going forward.

But, nevertheless, it appears to be that these differences are narrowing and the likelihood of a hearing happening next week, Wolf, looks increasingly likely as these two sides are starting to discuss in very serious terms the possibility of having a hearing, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, but there still are some serious differences, as you just point out.

On this notion of an outside counsel to do the questioning, are the Republicans suggesting that the same person question both the Supreme Court nominee and his accuser, or that there be different outside counsels questioning these two individuals?

RAJU: You know, that is not entirely clear, Wolf. We don't know exactly what they're discussing about whether or not someone could just ask some questions and the senators could intervene or someone would do all the questioning or each side would get their questioning. That has not been spelled out.

And, you know, I am told that it's an area that's still under discussion among the Republican side about the outside counsel, whether or not their -- how hard they're going to push to demand that. It still seems to be a bit of an open question and a bit of a subject of negotiation going forward, in large part because Ford's camp made very clear that she would have strong objections to having an outside counsel do the question.

Now the other question too, Wolf, is whether they'll agree to this Wednesday hearing. Now, I was told that Ford's camp had said that they were uncertain whether or not she could attend before Thursday because of concerns and issues she has to deal with about her family's safety. So, can she get to Washington by Wednesday? Will they agree to that? I think that's still an area of question going forward. But we expect a more formal response from the Senate Republicans in just a matter of hours. We'll see how the Ford camp and the Democrats respond to that when that formal proposal ultimately comes, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, and as you point out, the other issue is, who testifies first? Whether it's, you know, Judge Kavanaugh or Professor Ford. Who goes first, that's an issue on the table right now. So there's still a lot they have to work out, including the timing of all of this.

Manu, we'll get back to you. I know you're working your sources.

At the same time, President Trump now is abandoning his earlier measured response to the accusations against the Supreme Court nominee, Brett Kavanaugh. Now directly attacking Kavanaugh's accuser in a series of tweets saying, among other things, and I'm quoting now, I have no doubt that if the attack on Dr. Ford was as bad as she says, changes would have been immediately filed with local law enforcement authorities by either her or her loving parents. I ask that she bring those filings forward so that we can learn date, time, and place. The radical left lawyers want the FBI to get involved. Now, why didn't someone call the FBI 36 years ago. That's a quote from the president.

[13:05:16] BLITZER: Meanwhile, he also skirted with an outright attack last night during a political rally in Nevada.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Why didn't somebody call the FBI 36 years ago? I mean you could also say, when did this all happen? What's going on? To take a man like this and besmirch -- now, with that being said, let her have her say and let's see how it all works out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president, by the way, is getting ready to speak shortly at a veteran's hospital in north Las Vegas. You're looking at live pictures over there.

Let's go to our White House reporter, Sarah Westwood. She's on the scene for us in Las Vegas.

So, Sarah, do we expect President Trump to stay on the attack?

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Wolf, President Trump is showing no signs of backing down. He spent the morning here going after Christine Blasey Ford and attacking Democrats for the way they've handled her allegation. Now, White House aides had privately marveled over the past few days at the restraint Trump had shown when discussing her allegations. Up to last night, he hadn't gone after the accuser and he'd maintained the Republican line that she should be given respect and that she has to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

But last night here in Las Vegas, Trump started to show for the first time signs of switching gears during that interview with Fox News when he questioned why Professor Fort didn't go to authorities 36 years ago when she says that alleged attack took place.

And this is the kind of reaction that Republicans have been fearing all along. They're already walking a tight rope trying to rush to that confirmation vote, while also appeasing some of those more moderate GOP senator who would prefer to hear Ford out before they proceed to that vote. So Trump's flame throwing could make that already difficult process just that much harder. White House aides have been fearing that these tweets were coming since Ford first came public -- forward on Sunday.

Now, in addition to speaking here at the veteran's hospital behind me, Trump is also holding a rally in Missouri later today. So we could hear more of his grievances about Ford and Senate Democrats before the day is over.

Wolf.

BLITZER: I suspect we will.

All right, Sarah, thank you. Sarah Westwood on the scene for us in Las Vegas.

One of the people who does not plan to vote for Judge Kavanaugh is Democratic Senator Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire. She's joining us live right now from Manchester.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D), NEW HAMPSHIRE: Thanks for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: So what do you think about the Senate Judiciary Committee's counter proposal? I assume you just heard the details from our Manu Raju.

HASSAN: Well, I just did hear the details. I'm very disappointed. Along with the comments from President Trump this morning, what we're seeing is exactly why it's so hard for survivors of sexual assault to come forward, especially when they are traumatized teenagers, as Dr. Ford was, when this assault that she reports now happened.

And so, you know, these comments really reflect the way society has been treating women when they do try to come forward with these reports. They try to diminish them, doubt them, they attack them. And President Trump is part of the problem. And he's really trying to marginalize her, attacking her, trying to shove her back into the dark. And what we all need to do is make sure that she is supported and respected.

I am very concerned that Senate Republicans, in their response today, are really indicating that they are just setting this hearing up so that they can say they listened to her, but that they are planning to confirm Judge Kavanaugh no matter what she says. Here she is saying that there should be an FBI investigation, asking for an FBI investigation, when, by the way, if you lie to the FBI, it's a crime. So she's willing to talk to them. She's willing to make sure that the Senate gets the actual facts and then proceeds with a decision about whether to confirm Judge Kavanaugh.

And it is very concerning to me when I hear the kind of take it or leave it proposals that the Senate Republicans are putting forward, that it just seems to me that they think that the answer here, no matter what Dr. Ford says, no matter what an FBI investigation might reflect, that they have no intention of it affecting their vote. And that is just deeply, deeply disappointing.

BLITZER: Well, speaking of Senate Republicans, the majority leader, Mitch McConnell, says Judge Kavanaugh will take his place on the country's highest court. Here's what he told the conservative Values Voters Summit here in Washington earlier today. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MAJORITY LEADER: You've watched the fight. You've watched the tactics. But here's what I want to tell you. In the very near future, Judge Kavanaugh will be on the United States Supreme Court.

[13:10:07] So, my friends, keep the faith. Don't get rattled by all of this. We're going to plow right through it and do our job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, senator, what's your reaction to the majority leader?

HASSAN: One of incredible and extreme disappointment. You know, back in 1991 when Anita Hill brought forward her claim of sexual harassment by Judge Thomas, the process that the Senate used at that time was widely criticized. It had an FBI investigation. It went on for three days. There were multiple witnesses. And yet everybody realized that it was inadequate and deeply unfair to Professor Hill.

Now what Leader McConnell is saying, what the Senate Republicans are saying is that they are going to do a process that's even worse. Rather than listen to Dr. Ford's report of what happened, and what they're really telling us, Senator McConnell seems to be saying from what I just heard is that it doesn't matter to him or to the Senate Republicans whether Judge Kavanaugh assaulted a woman, a crime, committed a crime. It doesn't matter to them what happened.

You know, nobody has a right to a United States Supreme Court appointment. We need people who are highly expert and qualified in the law to be sure, but we need people of impeccable moral character with the capacity for compassion and objectivity. And Judge Kavanaugh does not demonstrate his capacity to be objective, to be compassionate, in my view. I found many things about his testimony and about the documents we've reviewed concerning. He doesn't seem to respect the constitutional rights of all Americans, among other things. And he favors corporations as opposed to individuals.

But beyond that, what we are seeing now from the Republicans is just unbelievable. They are saying that even if Dr. Ford comes forward and tells her story, even if they subpoenaed a witness which they're refusing to do who was reportedly present at this assault, they don't care. And that should concern every single American. No one has a right to this appointment. And there are certainly better qualified, highly qualified people who could do the position of Supreme Court justice well. This is just incredibly distressing.

BLITZER: Senator Hassan, thanks so much for joining us.

HASSAN: Thank you.

BLITZER: All right, coming up, we're going to continue to follow the breaking news of a possible, possible Wednesday hearing for Brett Kavanaugh's accuser and the no win situation for Republicans. Some evangelicals are now warning that they may even stay home for the midterms if Judge Kavanaugh's nomination falls apart.

And later, the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo lashing out again at his predecessor, John Kerry. What is he now saying? There's a new CNN interview. We'll have that.

Much more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:18:28] BLITZER: With a counter proposal now on the table for a possible Wednesday hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee, negotiations appear to be moving forward between Christine Blasey Ford and the Republican led Senate Judiciary Committee. But it's by no means a done deal.

Ford's attorney says her client is willing to testify about the sexual assault accusations against Judge Kavanaugh, but holding the hearing on Monday as originally demanded by the Republicans isn't an option. This comes as President Trump is now attacking Professor Ford in a series of new tweets earlier today, questioning why she or her parents didn't seek out an investigation at the time of the alleged incident.

Joining us right now, our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, and S.E. Cupp, a CNN political commentator and the host of "S.E. Cupp Unfiltered" that airs Saturday nights, 6:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

Gloria, let me start with you. Is it likely they can reach an agreement? The Republicans now, they blinked. They said the earlier deadline, 10:00 a.m. this morning for a Monday hearing, that's come and gone. They're now saying, instead of Monday, Wednesday. They want her to testify first, him second, and they don't want the senators to ask the questions, they want an outside counsel to ask questions.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. I think -- look, I think they're trying to get to yes here, which I think is a -- is a good development. And I think the fact that it's maybe going to be on Wednesday instead of Thursday is not a big deal.

I think the real question is the format here. And I think it's a big question for Professor Ford, as well as for Judge Kavanaugh. But Professor Ford's team, I was told last night, really wants the senators to be asking the questions of her. She doesn't want to be cross-examined by a professional. She wants the senators who are going to vote to be the ones interrogating her and asking questions.

[13:20:20] She also, by the way, does not want a limit on her opening statement because she wants to be able to tell her entire story the way she wants to tell it.

BLITZER: Yes, so it's --

BORGER: Well, maybe they'll get to yes. I think --

BLITZER: They may. They're still -- BORGER: I think it's in their -- all of their interests to get to yes to tell you the truth.

BLITZER: S.E., what do you think?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It -- I agree with Gloria completely. No one benefits from not having this hearing.

That said, it's going to be hard for either side to have a clean win on this. It feels like everyone will lose here and that's because this thing has been -- has been tainted. You know, for -- for better or worse, maybe no one's fault, but it has been.

On the Democrats' side, while no one should question the timing of Professor Ford's revelation, you can question the Democrats' timing of revealing it. And so, you know, if they successfully sort of knock Kavanaugh out of the running, I think it will look very politically craven when a guy with an otherwise pretty qualified professional record falls by the wayside due to one accusation, fairly unprovable.

On the other hand, for Republican, if they push this guy through, as Mitch McConnell is suggesting they will, you know, Dr. Ford, Professor Ford, will be an asterisk on Brett Kavanaugh for decades to come. Just look at Anita Hill. Joe Biden was on earlier talking about 1991, 27 years later, revisiting the ghosts of Anita Hill.

So -- so I think at this point this hearing has to happen. It has to happen both for Christine Ford. It has to happen for Republicans. It has to happen for Democrats. In the end, I'm not sure anyone here gets a victory out of this.

BLITZER: You know, it's interesting, you know, Gloria, because the president, all of a sudden -- had a relatively restrained posture in the past couple of days but now he's one -- I'm looking at these tweets from him earlier today -- he's really going on the attack.

BORGER: Well, he is going on the attack. I mean we were all wondering, of course, how long the restraint would last. I mean we weren't used to this kind of restraint from the president. And it's clear to me that people inside the White House were telling him, look, you're not -- you're not doing Kavanaugh any good if you start questioning Professor Ford and you're also not going to help us with suburban women. But he could only contain himself for so long, obviously. And he's upset about it because he wants Kavanaugh to get through. He thinks it's political. And he may have a point there. Obviously everything about this Supreme Court hearing is political. But he couldn't restrain himself from taking her on. Why didn't she file a complaint, you know, 35 years ago when she was 15 years old? I mean, come on.

So he just couldn't do it. He couldn't do it.

BLITZER: You know --

BORGER: No, I'm not surprised, by the way. I was surprised he was restrained. BLITZER: Yes, a lot of people were surprised by the initial restraint.

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: But now I'll read, S.E., one of the tweets --

CUPP: Yes.

BLITZER: From the president this morning. Judge Brett Kavanaugh is a fine man with an impeccable reputation who is under assault by radical left wing politicians who don't want to know the answers, they just want to destroy and delay. Facts don't matter. I go through this with them every single day in D.C.

Why do you think he's shifted his tone?

CUPP: Well, because I believe he actually just revealed his true self. I mean he's -- he's actually shifted back to type. I think what was out of character was his initial restraint.

Trump has behaved this way against -- in the face of his own accusers, blaming the victim, trying to smear his own accusers. You know, this -- this is -- this, today, these tweets are not out of character. They're problematic for many reasons. One, those tweets smearing Christine Ford are gross. Two, they counter the narrative all week by the White House that she should not be attacked and she should be heard. And, three, they seed the point that the GOP had been making that this was not then within the FBI's purview. Trump is now asking why the FBI did not, all those years ago, investigate, you know, something that Republicans said that they should not have.

But the most important problem coming out of this tweet is for someone like Senator Susan Collins, who has been carefully trying to navigate this confirmation process sort of in a wait and see mode. This does not make it easier for her to throw her arms around Brett Kavanaugh. And if you're the GOP, you're increasingly worried that senators like Susan Collins are now maybe not in the yes column. That's a problem for Republicans.

BLITZER: Yes.

[13:25:19] BORGER: Yes, it's a problem for the Republicans on the committee as well.

CUPP: Yes.

BORGER: I mean, you know, you could argue that Chuck Grassley, the chairman, has bent over backwards to try and come up with some kind of a deal. You know, offering all kinds of, you know, compromises so that they can get her in front of the committee, because they've learned some lessons here and they know this election is coming up and they -- and they were all there for Anita Hill, most of them were. And so they've learned some lessons, wouldn't you think?

And then the president, who's learned nothing, inserts himself into this and throws everything up in the air and all of their sort of efforts to kind of -- to kind of lower the temperature here a little bit are gone.

BLITZER: Yes.

BORGER: Are gone.

BLITZER: All right, guys, thank you very much, Gloria Borger, S.E. Cupp.

Important programming note to our viewers. S.E. Cupp, her program on CNN, 6:00 p.m. Eastern Saturday nights, "S.E. Cupp Unfiltered." Check it out.

Still to come, President Trump's number one fix it man, Michael Cohen, reportedly spending hours and hours over the past month with the Special Counsel Robert Mueller. How damaging potentially could this be for the president?

Plus, why is President Trump attacking Judge Kavanaugh's accusers now. We're going to ask one of his former key advisers at the White House. Stick around.

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