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WOLF

GOP Senators on FBI Probe; White House Confident in Kavanaugh; Feinstein Slams Probe; Sen. Jeff Merkley Interviewed; Protesters Pour Into Streets in Washington. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 4, 2018 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:00:00] DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: So much to talk about with all this for the next five weeks.

Thank you so much for joining me on INSIDE POLITICS. "WOLF" starts right now.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.

The fate of the U.S. Supreme Court justice on the line right now. Will he be confirmed or not? Right now the three key GOP senators, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins and Jeff Flake, they are meeting together and reviewing the FBI's report into the Supreme Court Nominee Brett Kavanaugh who's been accused of sexual abuse.

We've already heard from two of them. Senator Jeff Flake says he has seen, quote, no additional corroborating information against Judge Kavanaugh. Senator Susan Collins says the report, quote, appears to be very thorough. Still no word at this time at least from Senator Lisa Murkowski.

The Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley saying, there's nothing we didn't already know and that there was no hint of misconduct. While Ranking Member Dianne Feinstein says the White House obstructed a full investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), RANKING MEMBER, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Democrats agreed that the investigation's scope should be limited. We did not agree that the White House should tie the FBI's hands.

In my view, from what I saw, the investigation was very limited and it will be interesting, after all of the members have an opportunity to read the documents, and we have an opportunity in public to discuss our conclusions, what the findings are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Meanwhile, outside on the streets of Washington, D.C., protesters, they're marching in opposition to the nomination of Judge Kavanaugh. We're going to go there live shortly. But you can see lots of people have gathered in the nation's capital to protest.

Our congressional correspondent, Phil Mattingly, is joining us live from Capitol Hill right now.

So what's the latest? What are you hearing there, Phil, especially from these three Republican senators who were undecided, at least before today?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, basically the breakdown is this at this moment. There are 95 senators in the United States Senate who have made up their minds and their refrain coming out of briefings this morning splits perfectly down partisan lines. Republicans from Senate Majority Mitch McConnell on down saying there was no corroboration. Many of the allegations from Christine Blasey Ford or Deborah Ramirez, they didn't learn anything that's problematic and they want to vote.

For Democrats, you played the sound from the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, Dianne Feinstein, saying they are concerned that the report was straight-jacketed, in the words of some. They weren't allowed to do a fulsome investigation.

But, Wolf, you hit the key point, what this really all comes down to is a very small number of senators. And for Republicans right now, the initial returns from Senator Jeff Flake, from Senator Susan Collins, seem to point in the direction of possibly getting Brett Kavanaugh's nomination over the finish line.

Now, you pull up what those three senators have said this -- at this point. Wolf, as you noted, all three are currently in the confidential room, reading this report as it goes through. Two of them went to the briefing this morning. Senator Collins, who said that she thought it was a very thorough investigation. Senator Flake who said, he hadn't seen any additional corroboration.

Now, break that out a little bit further. There are also two Democrats who remain undecided. How those five view this report will likely dictate whether or not Brett Kavanaugh is elevated to the highest court in the land.

I will note one thing that's been pointed out to me. Jeff Flake, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, now all in. Two of those senators reviewing personally after getting a staff briefing earlier. Those initial returns, while positive for the Republican Party, certainly don't mean a definitive answer yet. Notably, Susan Collins has been very keen on paying attention to Mark Judge, the friend of Brett Kavanaugh, who is alleged to have been a witness to Christine Blasey Ford's alleged sexual assault. I'm told, based on what senators were briefed on this morning, Wolf, that he was interviewed for more than three hours by the FBI. One of the key things all of these senators will be looking for is reading through those transcripts. That will go a long way to whether they have more comfort with what they saw or what they've already expressed, or whether there are problems.

But certain, Wolf, early returns from Republican aides that I've been talking to right now is they feel like the people who needed to see this report and be OK with this report, at least at this point, they are, Wolf.

BLITZER: Encouraging word for the White House.

Phil, I just want to be precise. There are 51 Republicans in the Senate. There are 49 Democrats, two independents, who caucus with the Democrats. If these two Republican senators go ahead and vote in favor of confirmation, we're talking about Jeff Flake and Susan Collins, who gave relatively upbeat assessments of this FBI report, if they vote in favor, it's all over, he's confirmed, because he'll have at least 50 votes. And Mike Pence, the vice president, will break a tie in favor of confirmation.

MATTINGLY: Yes, that's the ballgame. That really is, Wolf. And I think that's why Republicans have been buoyed by the initial comments.

Now, it's worth noting, those three Republicans and the five undecided senators in total are not a monolith. They've been talking pretty regularly. They've been going back and forth on what they're seeing, what their concerns are all together. So they won't necessarily all vote in a bloc, but as you noted, Wolf, they only need two. And my understanding is, if you get two Republicans, there's a pretty good chance you're going to get at least maybe one Democrat as well.

[13:05:16] BLITZER: Yes, that's a good point as well.

Phil, let us know what you're hearing. We'll get back to you. Thank you.

There's certainly, and understandably, an air of confidence over at the White House right now as senators get their looks at the FBI report on Judge Kavanaugh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJ SHAH, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: We feel very confident -- without getting into the details, we feel very confident that when the senators have an opportunity to review this material, as they've already -- they're just beginning to right now, that they're going to be comfortable voting to confirm Judge Kavanaugh.

The president, the White House, are firmly behind Brett Kavanaugh. We believe that all the Senate's questions have been addressed through this supplemental FBI investigation. And to be clear, allegation, we cannot live in a world where allegation alone can sully a man's reputation for life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's go to our chief White House correspondent Jim Acosta. He's over at the White House.

Jim, the FBI report came first to the White House before being sent to the Senate. Senators are reviewing it right now.

What else are you hearing from sources over there where you are? Do we know if the president, for example, personally saw this report?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We don't think he saw the report, Wolf. We know he's been briefed on it and he's been briefed on the fact that it's been delivered up to senators up on Capitol Hill and they're going through this process right now. He is getting updates on how all of this is going.

But I can tell you, Wolf, they are getting increasingly optimistic over here at the White House and among the Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee as to how all of this is playing out, mainly because of these responses you're hearing this morning from these fence-sitting Republican senators, Senator Susan Collins from Maine and Jeff Flake from Arizona. Both of them making some fairly positive comments this morning that would, I guess, harden the prospects for Jeff -- or, excuse me, for Brett Kavanaugh.

One thing I can point to you, Wolf, from this source close to the nomination process, Republican source, this person telling me just a few moments ago, I think both Flake and Collins set a bar for what they needed to feel comfortable moving forward and so far all signs point to that being met.

And, Wolf, I think at this point what you're seeing is, is the process really changing? A process from fact finding -- I guess there are Democrats who will say this was never a fact-finding mission, to a vote counting initiative. And that is on the Republican side, trying to find out if they have the votes to push Brett Kavanaugh over the edge. Do they have Joe Manchin? Do they have Heidi Heitkamp and do they have these three fence-sitting Republican senators, Flake, Murkowski, and Collins, who are all talking about this right now. That ultimately is going to decide where things end up in all of this, Wolf. As you said, Mike Pence could ultimately play a pivotal roll in all of this. He's been very silent throughout all of this.

But I think notably, Wolf, the president just left the White House for a rally in Minnesota that's going to be taking place later on today. There he is at Joint Base Andrews. And, Wolf, the president, after really almost taking this whole process off the rails a couple of nights ago when he mocked Christine Blasey Ford at that rally in Mississippi, the president was notably silent as he left the White House, notably silent, obviously, right now as he gets on Air Force One. And I think there's a recognition -- and I was talking to sources last night, Republican sources on The Hill -- there is a -- there is a real recognition that the president almost threw this entire process off the rails when he made those comments in Mississippi the other night.

The thing that is reassuring senators at this point is simply what's in this supplemental background check on Brett Kavanaugh that's been handed up to both Democrats and Republicans up on Capitol Hill. They're feeling better about this process, not because of what the president's done this week, but because of that supplemental report, Wolf.

BLITZER: The president getting ready to fly off to Minnesota, Minneapolis first, then Rochester, Minnesota, another campaign rally. He's been doing a lot of them in advance of the midterms.

Jim Acosta, thank you very much. Democrats are slamming this latest FBI report, calling it incomplete.

Our justice correspondent, Jessica Schneider, is joining us now.

Jessica, we're told the FBI interviewed nine people in all. Tell us about that.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Wolf.

Nine people. You know, that really was above and beyond the initial four people Republican senators had requested. But Democrats now, of course, saying it still wasn't enough.

So here's the composite of the people the FBI did, in fact, talk to. First of all, someone considered a key witness here, Mark Judge. Of course you'll remember Christine Blasey Ford said Judge was in the room when she was allegedly sexually assaulted by Brett Kavanaugh. Now, this morning, Republican Senator John Kennedy said that Mark Judge was, in fact, questioned for three hours. We do not know specifically what Judge told the FBI, but he previously denied any recollection of the party or the incident and he has vouched for Kavanaugh's character.

So now here's some other people who were interviewed. First of all, Leland Keyser, Patrick "PJ" Smyth. Ford said that both of them were at the party. They too had issued statements saying that they had no recollection. But, again, unknown what they told the FBI.

[13:10:12] Then there is Chris Garrett and Tim Gaudette. They were interviewed by the FBI. Both were referred to, as you'll remember, on that July 1, 1982 calendar entry from Brett Kavanaugh. There was a gathering that night at Tim Gaudette's house. Brett Kavanaugh referred to him as Timmy. And Chris Garrett was also there. His nickname was Squi (ph).

Now, Democrats, like Sheldon Whitehouse, they pointed to that July 1, 982 date as the possible party that Christine Blasey Ford was remembering because, of course, she hasn't been able to pinpoint the date.

And, finally, Deborah Ramirez was also interviewed. She was that second accuser who claimed that Brett Kavanaugh exposed himself to her during a dorm room party at Yale in the early 1980s. Kavanaugh, of course, has denied all of these claims.

And, Wolf, we do know three other people were also interviewed, but we do not know their identities at this point.

BLITZER: Who didn't the FBI talk to?

SCHNEIDER: Yes, two big names not interviewed by the FBI, Christine Blasey Ford herself, as well as Brett Kavanaugh. Now, Democrats, including today, Dianne Feinstein, she has said that an investigation without their input was incomplete. But the White House Counsel's Office, they've pushed back in recent days, saying that all senators had the time to get their stories because the hearing was just last week and, of course, both of them testified.

But Christine Blasey Ford's attorneys, they are not satisfied. They released this statement. They said, an FBI supplemental background investigation did not include an interview of Dr. Christine Blasey Ford, nor the witnesses who corroborate her testimony. They cannot be called an investigation. We are profoundly disappointed that after the tremendous sacrifice she made in coming forward, those directing the FBI investigation were not interested in seeking the truth.

You know, they continue to hammer this point. In fact, Ford's attorneys just released a letter to the FBI, FBI Director Christopher Wray in fact, suggesting eight people the FBI should still talk to. So they're still pressing this point. Among the list of names, it included Ford's husband, also the former FBI agent who administered Ford's polygraph.

And someone else also dissatisfied, Deborah Ramirez, as well as her attorneys. Now her attorneys say they submitted a list of 20 plus people who could corroborate aspects of Ramirez's testimony, even if they didn't witness the alleged sexual misconduct.

Now, Ramirez's attorneys are saying none of those people was ever contacted. And because of that, Ramirez's attorney has written this. They said, we could only conclude that the FBI, or those controlling its investigation, did not want to learn the truth behind Ms. Ramirez's allegations.

So a lot of discontent here. Although we are learning at this point that the FBI report did include information that came into the FBI tip line. That can, as well, be seen by senators, Wolf.

And we know that the report itself, it's looking like it's more than 1,000 pages that they're not sifting through.

Wolf.

BLITZER: They're going through it. Hourly by hourly in the course of today, getting ready for a procedural vote on the Senate floor tomorrow.

Jessica, thank you very much.

Jessica Schneider reporting.

Joining us now from Capitol Hill, Senator Jeff Merkley. He's a Democrat from Oregon.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D), OREGON: Oh, you're very welcome. Good to be with you.

BLITZER: Have you had a chance to go through this FBI report on Judge Kavanaugh?

MERKLEY: Yes. Yes, I have. BLITZER: And so what's your reaction?

MERKLEY: It's a complete cover up. I think just as it was just explained that Debbie Ramirez's team, they provided 20 people who should be interviewed because they had probative information. None of them apparently were talked to. We have Dr. Ford, who provided eight names, none of them were talked to.

They -- this was a cherry picking of a few individuals to pretend to do an investigation. This is a complete embarrassment on the reputation of the FBI. And if they did this at the direction of the president, then it's a massive abuse of fairness and justice towards these women who came forward to share their experiences.

BLITZER: As you know, the White House, the Judiciary Committee chairman, Chuck Grassley, the Republican leadership, they all say there's nothing in this new FBI report that they didn't know before, that you didn't know before either. What do you say to that, that there's nothing new to learn there?

MERKLEY: Well, there's nothing much new to learn. There are a few details. But nothing much new to learn because they didn't look for information. If you don't interview (ph) any of these 28 individuals that these two women suggested should be interviewed, then you're going to learn nothing. There was -- they only talked to people in an effort to have a very, very narrow conversation with individuals that they felt would build their case rather than prevent -- present any information.

Let me give you an example. In his freshman dorm, Kavanaugh had a suitemate named Kenneth Apolt (ph). Kenneth Apolt contacted the FBI and said, come talk to me because I heard this story that year. And he proceed to make many efforts to contact the FBI. They did not respond. He is a professor at Princeton Theological Seminary. And he was not contacted.

[13:15:26] He, furthermore, brought it up, the story up, it bothered him so much he brought it up with a roommate of his when he was in graduate school. His name is Michael Wetstone (ph). Michael Wetstone was not contacted by the FBI.

So here you have a witness who heard it in real time, that year, details, who shared it long ago before Kavanaugh was ever up to be a nominee and the FBI did not talk to them, even though they asked to be spoken to.

This is an example of what a horrific cover-up this investigation is.

BLITZER: So what's your message to your Republican colleagues, Jeff Flake, Susan Collins, who both emerged from that closed door room where they had a chance to go through the secret document and they offered relatively upbeat assessments?

MERKLEY: We were briefed by Democratic staff when the Democrats went in to see the documents. I assume that they were briefed by Republican staff. So that is not an honest examination of the issues. I would encourage them to look at the fact that these two courageous

women who came forward with stories, knowing that they themselves would probably be attacked, have simply called for a fair investigation. They have given Ford names, 28 individuals. The FBI apparently, at the direction of the White House, refused to talk to those individuals. That -- none of -- none of my colleagues could possibly say that that was comprehensive. None of them could say it was fair if they know this information.

BLITZER: You know that if -- if these two Republicans --

MERKLEY: And, by the way -- by the way --

BLITZER: Hold on a second, senator. If these two Republicans vote in favor of confirmation, it's over. Are you going to directly contact Susan Collins, Jeff Flake, and explain what you saw and try to convince them to vote against confirmation?

MERKLEY: I certainly will share, in a very polite fashion, this suggestion that this cannot possibly be construed as comprehensive. I know that these individuals, among the entire Republican caucus, they are struggling to try to find a point of reason, to find a point of justice, to find a point of fairness. I'm -- I just want to make sure that they have the full story, not a misleading briefing from a partisan perspective.

And let's think about this. Senator Flake really did something very important in calling for a fair examination of these women's experiences. This is not a fair examination. And he said two things along the way. He said, one, he couldn't support the justice if the justice lied to the committee. Second, he said it had to be an authentic -- I'm not sure the exact word he used, but an authentic investigation to find the truth. This certainly -- both those tests failed, absolutely. They don't fail barely, they are completely failed. They get an f. The judge misrepresented many, many facts before the committee, it's been well documented. And he certainly -- this is not a comprehensive or fair investigation.

BLITZER: Senator Merkley, thanks so much for joining us.

MERKLEY: You're welcome. Thank you.

BLITZER: All right, so there's news happening now in Washington as the Senate reads the FBI's report. Look at this, protesters are marching against Judge Kavanaugh's nomination. We're going to go there live. Stay with us. Lots going on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:23:24] BLITZER: Right now, look at this, as senators and key staff members review the FBI's supplemental report on Judge Brett Kavanaugh, activists opposed to his nomination and his confirmation, they are protesting big time here in Washington, D.C.

Let's go to our senior Washington correspondent, Joe Johns. He's on the scene for us. So explain what's going on over there. What are you seeing and

hearing?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is a large crowd that started out down at federal court here in Washington, D.C. Now they're climbing Capitol Hill on the way over to the Supreme Court, where they're going to hold a rally. It's been a bit disorganized, in part because the word on this rally only went out on Monday as protest organizers tried to keep up with the calendar as it developed on Capitol Hill for the final vote of the Kavanaugh nomination.

Now, they started down at federal court. The significance of that is that that is where Brett Kavanaugh has worked since 2006 when he was confirmed to the D.C. Circuit. Of course the question for these folks is, given the fact that if you read the tea leaves on Capitol Hill, there are some suggestions that it's very hard to see how the Kavanaugh nomination can be derailed.

Therefore, what are you fighting for? Well, it's pretty clear, these people have been told by their organizers that even if the Kavanaugh nomination goes through, they are still fighting to get the word out because the next big fight, they say, is in November during the midterms.

Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Only a few weeks away from that. All right, Joe, we'll get back to you. Thank you.

[13:25:01] Up next, three key U.S. senators, they just left the FBI's -- the room where the FBI's report on Brett Kavanaugh is being shared on a confidential basis with all 100 U.S. senators and a few staff members. The nomination hinges on their votes. What are they saying? New information right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:30:02] BLITZER: Questions today over just how thorough the FBI's latest investigation of Supreme Court Nominee Brett Kavanaugh actually was. Several key Republicans say the FBI did its job completely.