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Kavanaugh Confirmation Vote; September Jobs Numbers; Kavanaugh Closing Arguments. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 5, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:30:00] ANA MARIA ARCHIA, CO-EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POPULAR DEMOCRACY: Stories, with our visits to elected officials, with our marches, with our protests, sometimes with our angry outbursts when they don't listen to us, when they waive their hands at us. This is -- and I feel very encouraged that actually people around -- across the country are doing precisely that. They're -- we're stepping and we're overcoming some of our fears, doing things for the first time.

Maria, who was there in that elevator with me, had never talked to an elected official. We spent 15 or 20 minutes before we saw Flake talking about how do you do that. And what I said to her was, just tell him why you're here. If we happened to see him. I did not think we would. Speak from your heart. And it's what elected officials are missing in these moments is a human connect with the people they represent.

They work for us. We need to remind them of that every day.

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ana Maria Archia, I appreciate you being with us this morning. Thank you.

ARCHIA: Thank you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Two hours now until the very first votes on Brett Kavanaugh, if he is to reach the Supreme Court. Where is it headed? Red state Democrats will play a big role in this outcome, maybe even decisive. One red state senator, a Democrat, joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:35:11] BERMAN: Less than two hours now until the very first votes on Brett Kavanaugh's nomination. So where is it headed? Joining me now is Alabama Democratic Senator Doug Jones, who has announced he will vote no on Kavanaugh.

Senator Jones, thanks very much for being with us.

Since we are in countdown mode, I have to ask, you're standing up there, do you have any intelligence on which way this vote will go?

SEN. DOUG JONES (D), ALABAMA: No, I really don't, John. You know, I think it's still a little bit up in the air. There's a lot of emotion here. There's a lot of just raw anger. And I think it's still a little bit up in the air. We'll just see how it goes in a little bit. BERMAN: Like almost every other senator now, you've had a chance to

read the product produced by the FBI from their five day investigation into the allegations against Brett Kavanaugh. You were a prosecutor for a long, long time. You know how to read these documents. Did you see any evidence or statements to corroborate the claims of sexual assault by Professor Ford or Debbie Ramirez?

JONES: Well, I don't think there was a lot that would corroborate it. I saw some things that I think, from a -- from a circumstantial evidence standpoint that you might consider that. The problem is that people are looking strictly for corroboration and no one has decided to go beyond that. I think this was very -- it was disappointing to me to read because it was obvious that it was restricted in the manner and means in which they were allowed to do it and they weren't really allowed to follow leads that could possibly have come up with some measure of corroboration. It's tough to find corroboration on an incident of 35 years ago.

BERMAN: Again, but just to be clear, if you were looking for something in the FBI investigation, and we know Jeff Flake was. Susan Collins told us she would be. If you were looking for something in that investigation to help you know whether or not it was Professor Ford telling the truth or Brett Kavanaugh, you didn't find anything in there to persuade you?

JONES: Well, no. I'm not saying that. And I can't go into a lot of the substance.

BERMAN: OK.

JONES: I think there were a number of things in there that you could see that could persuade you on a credibility standpoint. The fact is, most people are looking for circumstances that directly corroborate. You're just not going to find that. I've never expected to see that in this report. You just can't do that. I've had a little experience with that. And you have to go beyond that. When you get restricted in an investigation this way and you can't go and you can't follow leads in particular -- and to even tips that come through and other witnesses, you're just not going to be able to get there.

BERMAN: I don't know if you've had a chance to read "The Wall Street Journal," the op-ed written overnight by Brett Kavanaugh where he explains why he was so emotional in the hearing. Do you think it's appropriate, a, for a Supreme Court nominee to write an op-ed at all like that? And is it persuasive?

JONES: Well, it's certainly not persuasive. I think what was persuasive was his testimony the other day, which was clearly not off the cuff. It was clearly emotional. And it should be. If this did not happen, he should vigorously defend himself. But he went beyond that. He went into partisan attacks, personal attacks on some senators, totally inappropriate, showing a temperament that is unbecoming a judge, much less a Supreme Court nominee.

And so I think the op-ed was -- piece was trying to throw a little cold water on that. But that is very, very serious. It's one that helped tip the balance for me.

BERMAN: And, again, but nothing in that op-ed explain it to you why he acted the way he did?

JONES: No. In fact, it was I thought somewhat disingenuous because it appeared that it was more off the cuff when he was reading. He has clearly set this out. He had set the tone. He knew exactly what he was going to say and he knew exactly the emotions (INAUDIBLE). If he didn't, then that's a, I think, even more of a problem.

BERMAN: Right. You are a Democratic senator from the state of Alabama, which is a somewhat rare thing in this day and age. And when you ran, you promised to be an independent voice in the Senate. The Alabama Republican Party is now criticizing you for your opposition to Brett Kavanaugh. It says is your no vote betrays our state and his actions highlight his disingenuous promise to represent the majority of Alabamians. Senator Jones is now a full-fledged member of the never Trump resistance. Alabama will never forget this.

Now, there's a lot of hyperbole and politics in that statement, but there may be something true there, which is, do you believe a majority of people in your state support the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh?

JONES: It may be, but I don't think that that's the be-all and end-all because I'm the one that spent all the times and hours, literally hundreds of hours, going through his record, looking at all this.

You know, the Republican Party of Alabama and elsewhere has made this a political issue. They want me to simply rubber stamp the president of the United States. And that is not my job. I have, in fact, supported 77 percent of the judicial nominees that the president has put since my time here in the Senate.

But this is not a political -- one of the problems we've got is that this has become a partisan, political issue. And it shouldn't be. This should be an independent judiciary. We are in a very, very bad place when this has become such a partisan issue. It has and it's going to take a long time for the country to get over it.

[08:40:10] BERMAN: Senator Doug Jones from Alabama, you've got a big morning ahead of you. We'll let you go so you can get ready to cast those first votes. Appreciate you being with us.

JONES: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: Erica.

HILL: Up next, a brand-new jobs report just out. We have it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: Breaking news, the Labor Department just releasing the September jobs report.

CNN's Christine Romans joins us now with those numbers. CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: You know, another

strong month for the labor market. And I want to give you this number first. The unemployment rate, 3.7 percent. That is the lowest unemployment rate since 1969. I just want you to think about that for a minute. I mean this is a generational low here that we're seeing. This is essentially full employment.

You've got six million people who want a job. Six million people looking for a job. That's essentially a match in the labor market.

Now, jobs created was a big lighter than we expected, 134,000. That's the lowest in about a year. And that's because of Hurricane Florence. That might have disrupted those numbers. That compares to last September when there was also a hurricane. So you can see how those numbers play out there.

[08:45:03] These months were revised higher. So you've got really strong job creation here.

Let me show you how that fits into the overall picture. Now with this new number you're going to be up here. Almost two million jobs created. We have had years now of steady, steady job creation.

The sectors here that are important to look at, business information services, tend to be high-paid jobs, health care up and down the spectrum, all kinds of jobs there in health care, and that's been the case for about eight years. Manufacturing, 18,000 net new jobs there. You guys, for the year, 278,000 manufacturing jobs. Also some jobs in mining. I think you can see the president's trade policies there. So looking at a bit of a resurgence in manufacturing.

For more in-depth coverage of these jobs numbers, tech, media and finance of the future, go to the new CNN Business, cnn.com/business.

Guys.

BERMAN: Very, very strong numbers.

ROMANS: Yes, 3.7 percent.

BERMAN: Lower unemployment rate from before any of us were born.

ROMANS: That's right.

BERMAN: That's a long, long time and it's strong across the board.

All right, Romans, thanks very much.

Brett Kavanaugh's closing argument. He wrote this op-ed overnight, trying to convince four people to vote yes. Those first votes come in less than two hours. We're going to give you the very latest update. "The Point with Chris Cillizza" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:23] HILL: Supreme Court Nominee Brett Kavanaugh makes his closing argument to still undecided senators with a remarkable op-ed just hours before a key vote.

Let's get right to "The Point with Chris Cillizza."

So the op-ed, we're learning the White House was more concerned about the temperament --

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN.COM/THEPOINT: Yes.

HILL: That we saw, the outburst at the hearing here, not necessarily these allegations.

So then out comes this op-ed, which really was trying to play to an audience of four.

CILLIZZA: That's correct. No question. I would actually say probably even an audience of three, which is really the three Republicans, Collins, Murkowski and Flake, because if they get them, or two out of those three, Manchin is, you know, immaterial.

I think two things happen. One, what -- what we expected probably in honesty was that the FBI investigation was never going to give us the capital t truth of what happened that night in the early 1980s between Christine Blasey Ford and Brett Kavanaugh, OK? So that was that.

Then Judge Kavanaugh got a Matt Damon problem, which is essentially that caricature of him over the weekend crystallized for a lot of people. I mean if you watched it, like we did, when I watch it, I mean I wrote about this, he was clearly angry. Now, you could say it was righteous anger. You could say -- but he was clearly angry, lashing out at people like Dick Durbin, Amy Klobuchar.

But Damon crystallized it into sort of a cultural reality for people. And I think that led to the problem. You had Jeff Flake say that he was too sharp and partisan in comments to "The Atlantic" about Kavanaugh. There's a reason, if you read that op-ed Kavanaugh says, maybe I have been too sharp. He uses literally the word that Jeff Flake used to criticize him earlier in the week. This tells you everything you know. This is for an audience of three.

BERMAN: I want to say, you're in the chair today, not Alisyn. But Alisyn and I had a fight about the Matt Damon thing on Monday where she's like, oh, this is comedy, isn't it funny, let's let the comedy sink in here for a moment. I said, no, this is an important cultural moment.

And Chris Cillizza, who writes "The Point" --

HILL: Right.

CILLIZZA: That's right.

BERMAN: Who just told me --

CILLIZZA: It's true.

BERMAN: That there is a Matt Damon problem that Brett Kavanaugh has. HILL: I just -- are you saying you won, just to be clear here?

CILLIZZA: I think -- there's no question that happened.

BERMAN: Yes, I'm saying I won and I'm looking at you. It's not your fault. I didn't beat you, but I did win.

HILL: Sorry, Alisyn.

BERMAN: I did win that battle.

I want to know what's going to happen. I mean we're 40 minutes away from when the Senate gavels into session right now.

CILLIZZA: Yes.

BERMAN: We've been told repeatedly Republicans don't know for sure --

CILLIZZA: Sure.

BERMAN: Whether they have the votes.

CILLIZZA: Which is true. I mean they don't know necessarily that Flake, Collins, Murkowski or Manchin votes for him. In my opinion, you are looking at a 75 percent to 80 percent chance he gets the -- they get the 50 he needs. And don't -- make no mistake, you're not going to vote today to end debate and then vote against him tomorrow. This is the vote. The vote at 10:30 is the vote. And so I think that you are likely to see Flake be a yes. I think you are likely to see Collins be a yes. And if that happens, then what Murkowski does and what Joe Manchin does are immaterial because they have 50 and Mike Pence will break ties.

HILL: It's just fascinating to me that we're at this point and that we're still hearing we don't know exactly -- even though people may have a sense, right?

BERMAN: Yes.

HILL: And we're reading, not tea leaves, as John pointed out earlier, but giant palm leaves, right --

CILLIZZA: (INAUDIBLE).

HILL: That we have these -- we have these indicators. But there is still that what if.

CILLIZZA: Well --

HILL: We are literally counting down to the votes. What is the conversation right now behind closed doors?

CILLIZZA: Well -- yes.

HILL: I mean who's picking up the phone right now to Lisa Murkowski and saying -- CILLIZZA: So if you're -- if you're Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski,

Flake less so because he's retiring. So the political ramifications, it's really a conscious vote for him.

HILL: Yes.

CILLIZZA: But I think especially with Susan Collins, she is someone who has made a political career, since 1996, about putting herself in the middle, being that centrist, that sensible center. But usually these deals get worked out beforehand. It's not -- you're not put up against it in a way that she is. And, again, politically, this is a no win vote. Either way, it's going to be very difficult that you -- you've got people raising money against Susan Collins for 2020. If she is the vote to end Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation, that could -- I mean there's just -- the reasons it's so undecided still, Erica, is because --

HILL: Yes.

CILLIZZA: It's -- there are so many conflicting ways you can --

HILL: And they have to decide which is --

CILLIZZA: They have to decide which matters more.

HILL: Which am I -- which am I willing. Yes.

BERMAN: And just to be clear on the stakes for this for Susan Collins, if she decides to vote no, this is the second sentence of every article ever written about Susan Collins for the rest of (INAUDIBLE).

CILLIZZA: Correct.

HILL: Yes.

CILLIZZA: Correct. These votes -- you can say a vote on health care or a vote on this or that goes away. A vote on a Supreme Court justice, there are only nine of them --

HILL: Yes.

CILLIZZA: And it doesn't come along often. It does not go away.

BERMAN: Alisyn Camerota just texted me --

HILL: Oh, she did?

BERMAN: By the way, to say she is watching --

CILLIZZA: Oh, she's watching.

BERMAN: And she acknowledges that I was right all along.

Chris Cillizza, thank you very much.

Be sure to check out "The Point with Chris Cillizza." Go to cnn.com/thepoint.

HILL: We can also acknowledge, to Alisyn's credit, it was also very funny.

[08:55:01] BERMAN: I was right.

CILLIZZA: Funny and cultural.

HILL: I'm glad that John can move beyond that, Alisyn. Enjoy your weekend.

This week's CNN Hero is a crusader in California who survives torture as a child in China. And over the past three decades has tackled ramped homelessness in her backyard. Meet Betty Chinn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETTY CHINN, CNN HERO: In China, my family is a target for the government. I separate from my family and I live on the street by myself.

This all happened very young age. I had nothing to eat. Inside my heart, I don't want anybody to suffer what I suffered.

I don't sleep a lot. I get up at 2:07. Not 2:08, not 2:06. I tell myself, time to go, somebody need your help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: To see Betty in action, just log on to cnnheroes.com.

BERMAN: All right, as we've been saying, the Senate gavels into session less than 40 minutes from now. We are chasing those wavering senators to find out which way they may be leading. We're going to get the latest from inside the Capitol, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:11] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Friday morning to you. And there is news, trust us, this Friday morning.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.