Return to Transcripts main page

NEW DAY

Melania Trump Publicly Calls for Firing of Deputy National Security Advisor; California Wildlife Death Toll Climbs to 50; Trump Meets with Lawyers to Prepare Answers for Mueller; Satellite Images Show Active North Korean Missile Sites. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired November 14, 2018 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:00:05] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody I know lost everything.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. So who works at the White House this morning? You might need to ask the first lady. Her office basically fired the deputy national security adviser. And wow did they do it? Was it the first lady asking the president over breakfast? Maybe a quick chat in the hallway over the course of the day?

No, it was a press release. The first lady's office released this public statement saying that Mira Ricardel, quote, "no longer deserves the honor of serving this White House." The deputy national security advisor.

Now, an official tells CNN the president does intend to fire Ricardel, if it hasn't happened already. And it appears she's not the only one headed for a White House exit.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: In fact, CNN has been told the only West Wing staffers who should feel secure in their jobs this morning is daughter, Ivanka Trump, and son-in-law, Jared Kushner. "The New York Times" reports the president's family is behind the forced staff exodus. Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen may be the next to go, followed by chief of staff John Kelly.

Meanwhile, CNN has learned that President Trump met again on Monday with his lawyers and could submit written answers to questions from Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team any day now.

BERMAN: Joining us now, White House correspondent for "The New York Times" and CNN political analyst Maggie Haberman. Are we in the midst of some West Wing red wedding for the staff? Is there going to be massive turnover there, Maggie? What's actually happening?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't know how massive it could be when you actually have a fairly empty White House campus at this point, because so many people have left already, but itis definitely true that the president is looking to make more changes.

As you both know very well, the president tends to marinate on these ideas for a while before he actually goes ahead and does them, so this could be quite some time.

We know that he soured a long time ago on Kirstjen Nielsen, the homeland security secretary. Many people in the West Wing believe that this really is about getting rid of John Kelly, that the president is having trouble bringing himself to firing a four-star general, and he is looking to create a condition where Kelly would leave voluntarily.

I'm not sure that Kelly will do it. I think that we have been talking about John Kelly's departure, literally, for a year now. But now seems like a likelier time than ever as the president heads into a midterm cycle and has a chief of staff who, by his own admission, is not very steeped in politics.

CAMEROTA: OK. Maggie, fascinating. That's a fascinating dynamic that you just laid out. Because we know the president doesn't like face-to-face confrontation, and so John Kelly has been the henchman, I mean, for lack of a better word, of who fires people.

HABERMAN: That's right.

CAMEROTA: And so, of course, this is a conundrum. For how, then, do you get rid of your henchman? Who's going to do that dirty work? And he's hoping he leaves on his own.

That's interesting in how that will all play out. Was all this in the works before the midterms or since the midterms, has the president's pique gotten worse because of, say, the Paris trip and the midterm outcomes?

HABERMAN: It's definitely gotten worse since the midterms. Whether that's a temporary state of being, it's hard to say.

He's been venting about the midterms for days. You know, he -- I know there's reporting that he's suddenly gotten angry about Kirstjen Nielsen. My understanding is it's the same as it has been this whole time.

John Kelly is much more of a target. Don't forget something that you mentioned earlier, which is that the president spent the whole day on Monday and much of the day yesterday with his lawyers, preparing answers for the special counsel, Robert Mueller. He knew he was going to be heading back to that once he was in Paris. Don't think that isn't part of why he has been in such in a bad mood. Once that's over, does he revert back to something a little less angry? Possibly.

But there's always going to be this staff churn. I think there was a wide expectation that after the midterms there would be changes. None of these names are particularly surprising, except for one, which is the one that the first lady got involved with. But beyond that we're going to have to wait and see who goes.

BERMAN: So since you brought it up, Alisyn and I have some different theories on how that firing could have gone, right? If the first lady wanted -- wanted Mira Ricardel out, she could have asked the president over breakfast. She could have, you know, shouted across the room. She could have done anything --

CAMEROTA: Well, my We don't know she didn't.

There are back channels available to a first lady. I suggested pillow talk has been used in the past. Why the public statement? Why was that statement released by her office necessary?

Haberman: I think -- my reporting is that she has been spending weeks making clear to the president and the president's aides that she considered Mira Ricardel a problem, and Mira Ricardel has been a very controversial figure in the White House and people should not pretend otherwise, including dust-DEups with the Department of Defense and her own colleagues in the West Wing, and she made clear Mira Ricardel was a bad actor and she was spreading stories about not only the first lady's staff but the first lady.

John Bolton, the national security adviser, who is Mira Ricardel's boss, had been very, very resistant to firing her. If she is now fired today, then that is new information that you're reporting, because of of last night this was not happening.

CAMEROTA: We're not -- no, we're not.

HABERMAN: The president does not like, as you know, being essentially cornered into something. I think it speaks to the extent to which the first lady felt as if she had to do something to make clear that she considered this wo a problem. I think her issue was not with her husband. Her issue was with John Bolton.

BERMAN: And look, our reporting, to be clear, is that she's in the White House cleaning out her desk or was as of last night.

HABERMAN: That's been a really long cleaning, if that's true.

BERMAN: She's got a lot of stuff to pack. Look, when she's gone, she's gone, and we'll report it finally. Because there's been so many contradictions here.

HABERMAN: Correct.

BERMAN: We don't know for sure. This does make me think about that interview that Melania Trump, the first lady, with Tom Llamas, which really, in retrospect, was just chock full of news.

HABERMAN: Yes, absolutely.

BERMAN: Listen once more to how the first lady describes her view of loyalty inside the West Wing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM LLAMAS, JOURNALIST: Has he had people that you didn't trust working for him?

MELANIA TRUMP, FIRST LADY: Yes.

LLAMAS: Did you let him know?

M. TRUMP: I let him know.

LLAMAS: And what did he do?

M. TRUMP: Well, some people, they don't work there anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Four people in that picture.

BERMAN: "Some people, they don't work there anymore." Interesting to hear it said one month ago and today see it played out in public.

HABERMAN: I think one of the things that is really important to bear in mind, as we are seeing these staff discussions is, and you mentioned this earlier, you are seeing the Trump family, in different ways, leaving an imprint or attempting to on the staffing choices going forward.

It has been widely seen that -- by West Wing staff that Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump are supportive of Nick Ayers as a possible next chief of staff. May have suggestions, as well, for who could replace outgoing U.N. ambassador Nikki Haley. I think that you are seeing an effort to leave an imprint. I think that Melania Trump is doing something similar, although I think that this is less about sort of maneuvering and more that she actually felt this person was a problem.

To your point, she has not shied away when she has an issue with something going on in the West Wing or with her husband, actually, from saying it fairly publicly. She just hasn't done it that often.

CAMEROTA: Maggie, you've had reporting, and I hope you can share with us, what is the relationship between Melania Trump, the first lady, and the first daughter, Ivanka Trump? Because from the outside, it looks as though there is tension.

HABERMAN: so we had a story last week, Katie Rogers and I did, about Ivanka Trump planning her own trip to Africa a couple of months after the first lady did. People close to Ivanka Trump say that she moved hers out of deference to the first lady.

But you have this unusual dynamic of somebody who is both a West Wing adviser who has also embraced this title, first daughter. There certainly has been overlap, and sometimes uncomfortably so, between the two women in terms of what they're working on within the West Wing.

I think the other piece of it is that, with Ivanka Trump, and this is a criticism that gets made certainly privately, but frequently within the White House, is that when it is convenient for her to say that she is a staffer, she emphasizes that. When it's convenient for her to say that she's a daughter, she emphasizes that, including when she got asked in an interview a couple of months ago about some of her father's controversial statements about women, or his previous history with women. She got offended and said this was inappropriate to ask a daughter.

He was asking representative of this White House, somebody who makes official trips.

And so I think when you see this strange dynamic, it can be because you have two people filling this void, and especially since Melania Trump was not physically in the White House for the first six months of the administration. I think that has changed somewhat in terms of the dynamic. It has made it clearer that there is one first lady, but certainly, Ivanka Trump's role is unusual and has involved a lot of efforts to get her press and, quote, unquote, "credit" for things she's worked on that tend to seem as if it is in conflict with what the first lady is doing.

BERMAN: And this is just one of the articles that you've written, because your byline is everywhere over the last few days on all of these hot-button issues.

And to the president's state of mind, because there is a lot of focus on that the last few days. And we did see it play out in France when he was lectured by Emmanuel Macron, on Twitter when he lashed back at Emmanuel Macron, when he's justifying not going to the cemetery. We know he met with his lawyers, as you said. His reaction to the midterms seems to be, at this point, hostile, and it's Wednesday. You know, we have a lot more time to go here.

HABERMAN: He was very upset about the coverage of the Paris trip. This is not a secret. He put this all on Twitter.

My understanding is that what happened during this trip, and I think "The Washington Post" reported this, as well, was that when there was some issue with flying Marine One to the cemetery, as was planned on Saturday, they discussed a car ride which was going to be about 2 1/2 hours. There was a lot of finger-pointing at deputy chief of staff Zack Fuentes for not quite managing either the president that well or understanding that the president was going to get criticized for not making this visit. It was in plain sight that that was going to happen, and this was not anticipated or handled well or handled well in terms of preparing the president for it.

CAMEROTA: I mean, that's a really interesting one. Because there's -- what we've heard, as you know from all other White Houses, there's always a rain contingency plan.

HABERMAN: Yes. And there was a rain contingency plan. It just involved a very long car ride. And, you know, the question to me is whether the president actually wanted to go on a 2 1/2 hour car ride. And my guess is the answer is no.

But there seems to be this consistent surprise at the blowback he gets, as if there has never been a president who has faced these issues before, and as if presidents and their teams have never anticipated what reactions could be and what kind of fallout there could be. And they seem to need to learn this lesson anew there every single time. I do think that a lot of his bad mood was -- it's not just the

midterms. It's not just making this trip he didn't want to go on. It's not just the sugar high of the campaign rallies that he loves has come to a stop right now. I think that people are kidding themselves if they don't think the fact that he was coming back to spending 20 hours or so with his lawyers, working on these questions was weighing on him, that was a big deal for him.

BERMAN: Twenty hours with lawyers is interesting.

HABERMAN: Yes. I'm estimating. But it's at least 10, somewhere around 15 to 20.

BERMAN: That's a lot. That's a lot. And maybe we are seeing that play out very much in public.

Maggie, fascinating to have you with us this morning. Thanks so much. I will let you get back to the ten more bylines which I'm sure will be up by noon today.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Maggie.

BERMAN: All right. We do have breaking news this morning. The death toll in California has climbed to 50 as the devastating wildfires there just keep on ravaging that state. Forty-eight of those deaths are connected to a fire called the Camp Fire in the northern part of the state. They are searching for dozens of people missing still.

Another fire has broken out in San Bernardino County. It is threatening homes as we speak. And it's just one of several stubborn that crews are battling.

Our Bill Weir is live in Malibu Springs, California, with the very latest. Bill, what are you seeing?

BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, one fire official yesterday from the state said there has been 500 fires in just the last few weeks, so it's this game of perpetual whack-a-mole, inferno whack-a- mole. And sometime they're able to jump on them and get a handle on them very quickly.

And we've got an amazing sort of front-row seat into that yesterday: followed a plume of fresh smoke up into the canyons, the hills north of Malibu, looking down to West Lake Village and Lake Sherman in that area up there, Hidden Hills, and we saw this full-on aerial assault. It was almost like a war zone.

We've covered them, and just air assets, helicopters, big and small, big DC-10 tankers dropping that sort of jelly-like flame retardant that sticks to that ground there. And what you realize is that even though one canyon could be completely burned down to the dirt, all it takes is one ember sort of carrying a gust of wind into the next canyon to find all kinds of fresh fuel here for the Woolsey Fire.

They did open up a bit of Malibu for residents who show some proof, so the evacuation order is slowly lifting in this area. But this fire now close to 100,000 acres here in Southern California.

The good news is the red flag warning will stay in effect through today. The high winds, but forecasts say that that might die down. And John and Alisyn, the most amazing scene yesterday were those big super scoopers sharing the Pacific Ocean with surfers. Some people trying to get back to life as normal while others are still fighting this endless inferno.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, Bill. We're going to have some personal stories of people who have lost everything coming up in the show. So thank you very much for showing us what's happening there this morning.

Well, sources tell CNN that President Trump's lawyers could submit written answers to Robert Mueller in the coming days. What does that tell us about the status of the investigation? We will ask Senate Intel Committee member, Angus King, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:18:20] CAMEROTA: First to CNN, President Trump met again with his lawyers this week to go over written questions from Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team. The answers could be submitted to the special counsel in the coming days.

Joining us now is Independent Senator Angus King of Maine. He is a member of the Intelligence Committee.

Good morning, Senator.

SEN. ANGUS KING (I), MAINE: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. As you know, there was talk for weeks or months about whether the president would submit to questions. It sounds like that has been decided. So he is not doing it face-to-face, but he is submitting to written questions. What does that tell you on the Senate Intel Committee about where the Mueller investigation is?

KING: Well, you would assume that, if they're talking about questions from the president, they're getting close to the conclusion of their investigation. That's an assumption. I don't have any inside knowledge to that effect, but it would seem to me that this would be a kind of capstone.

Now, the question will be what follow-up is there from written questions. You can imagine these are going to be heavily lawyered questions. I'm not sure they will be terribly informative, but they will at least give the Mueller folks an opportunity to see where the president stands on a variety of issues.

So I think, you know, it's all speculation at this point.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

KING: I think one way you can measure the skill of an investigation, Alisyn, is if it's quiet, if you don't hear anything, that means they're keeping things to themselves, which they should. And we'll have to see where it goes after these questions -- these answers are filed, if indeed, they are in the next few days.

CAMEROTA: OK. One thing that is not speculation is that for months, you have said that Congress should take some sort of steps to protect the Mueller investigation. And I'm wondering if the appointment of Matt Whitaker to oversee the investigation after Jeff Sessions was ousted, does that kick that into a higher gear for you?

[07:20:08] KING: Absolutely. And I don't really understand what the delay is. Leader McConnell keeps saying it's not necessary. Well, the problem is if we wait until it's necessary, it's too late.

It's clear that at least part of the motivation for the firing of Jeff Sessions was to put somebody into that position who is hostile, or at least not enthusiastic about the Mueller investigation. So how many signals do we need? It would be very easy.

The bill -- there's a bipartisan bill that's come out of the Judiciary Committee that's sitting there that could be brought to the floor this afternoon, and we could move on this. It's -- it's a protective measure rather than have something -- everybody rush around in a fire drill when something happens.

CAMEROTA: And why won't Leader McConnell do that?

KING: I -- I have no idea. You'll have to ask him. I assume that the White House doesn't want this to happen. It also would put many of Leader McConnell's members in a difficult position in terms of voting to protect the Mueller investigation or voting to, in effect, protect the president.

But I think this is a case where it just makes sense. It would be the cleanest way to solve all of this, and it would resolve some of these questions about Mr. Whitaker and whether he's constitutionally appointed, what his authority is, what he could do. This would be -- this would clean all that up in a -- in a matter of days. And I suspect, however, it would have to be passed with veto-proof majorities in both houses. I don't know if that would happen. It should. But that's something we'll have to wait and see over the next few days.

But I don't like the idea of just waiting until the shoe drops, and then it's a very unclear situation, what we can and should do at that point.

CAMEROTA: So you, today, do have some concern and fear that Whitaker will try the end the probe prematurely?

KING: Well, "end" is a strong word. I think what's more likely is he would try to curtail it or scale it back, cut the funds, death by 1,000 cuts, if you will.

And I think there's a serious question of whether he has a constitutional power to do so. The Constitution is very clear that these positions require Senate confirmation. There are situations where there might be an emergency, someone dies in office or something like that. You put someone in, in an acting position.

But in this case the president created the vacancy by firing the attorney general and then skipped over the next logical person in line, who would be Rod Rosenstein, the deputy, to put in someone who hasn't been confirmed and take this step.

So I think there are some real issues here as to whether the Constitution would allow Mr. Whitaker to take these kind of substantive steps.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, you're not the only person to suggest that. As you know, Kellyanne Conway's husband, George Conway, who's a lawyer, has called it unconstitutional and illegal. Do you believe it is illegal?

KING: I think that -- it depends on what he does. If he acts as a kind of caretaker and administers the department on a day-to-day basis, waiting until an attorney general is nominated and confirmed, that's one thing. But if he takes substantive action, and certainly, I think curtailing the Mueller investigation would qualify as substantive action, then I think it is, I think, a solid argument we made that that's an action that's void from the get-go, because he hasn't been confirmed by the Senate. This is one of the fundamental checks and balances that's built into our Constitution.

CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about something else that is obviously intelligence-related. There's new commercial satellite images about North Korea that show that a dozen undeclared North Korean missile operating bases have been detected, another sign that Pyongyang is continuing to move forward with its ballistic missile program, amid indications that talks with the U.S. have stalled in recent months.

The president says this about that reporting in "The New York Times": "The story in 'The New York Times' concerning North Korea developing missile bases is inaccurate. We fully know about the sites being discussed. Nothing new. And nothing happening out of the normal. Just more fake news. I will be the first to let you know if things go bad."

What is the truth here, Senator?

KING: Well -- well, what we know from unclassified material is, these are -- these are missile bases. They're short, and they could be converted to medium-range ballistic missile bases. The -- it's likely, certainly almost certain that our intelligence community knew about these bases.

And I think there's a little history that's important here, Alisyn. This is the fifth time since 1993 that we've been in discussions with North Korea about denuclearization. The prior four times, there have been high hopes, multilateral discussions, and then we make concessions or the west makes concessions; and they back off on their commitments.

So here we are again. And I don't -- I don't think that these medium- range and short-range bases are a make-or-break kind of issue, but they do raise the likelihood that the North Koreans are not going to come through in the end.

[07:25:13] And what worries me at that point is that the president has invested so much in the positive news out of this, that if he's jilted, if you will, by Kim, then the reaction, there could be an overreaction in the other direction, and that's -- that's what troubles me. I think you've got to enter these with a clearer eye and an understanding of history that this is not unusual for the North Koreans to back off on commitments that they make, you know, in big public ceremonies.

CAMEROTA: Senator, one more issue of the day. There's been lots of reporting that the president is in the middle of sort of a fit at pique about how things did not go as planned in the midterms or in Paris for him and that he was surprised, I guess, by the backlash to him not visiting that military cemetery, commemorating the end of World War I. Back here at home on Veterans Day, he didn't go to Arlington National Cemetery. What do you think of that?

KING: Well, I think in some cases, this may be the president not being served well by his staff. Somebody should have -- and maybe they did, I don't know, said, "Mr. President, I'm sorry, but we've got to go to the cemetery, given it's the hundredth anniversary. A lot of U.S. Marines are buried there. It's the birthday of the Marine Corps." This was a highly symbolic visit. And I guess I would say somebody should have said, "Mr. President, I'm sorry, but you've got to go."

And then to compound it by not going over to Arlington on Veterans Day, I think, again, these -- the presidency, in large measure, in many cases, is symbolic. It's the president's presence that's important. And I think these were opportunities that were sort of self-inflicted wounds that could have been avoided simply by a couple of hours motorcade and, in the case of Arlington, a 20-minute trip across the river.

CAMEROTA: Senator Angus King, we appreciate having you on NEW DAY. Thank you.

KING: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: John.

BERMAN: Great talk there. And a lot of discussion this morning about what is happening in the West Wing. A one-sentence statement from the first lady's office may lead to the departure of the national security adviser. This type of thing doesn't happen, not like this. We'll discuss the implications, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)