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President Trump Comments on Upcoming Changes in White House Staff; President Trump Backs Criminal and Sentencing Reform Bill; Florida Vote Recounts Continue; Interview with Sen. John Kennedy, (D- LA). Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 15, 2018 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: I'm happy most mornings.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: That's fantastic. We're told the president is not. Let me read you a direct quote from one White House official. "He's pissed at damn near everyone," talking about the president of the United States. And moments ago we saw an example of that, including the damn near everyone includes special counsel Robert Mueller. The president named him directly. He called out the investigation, the Russia investigation. He called it a total mess and a disgrace to our nation. The president's list of grievances goes well beyond that, though. It includes looking like a bossed around husband after the first lady publicly ordered the dismissal of one of his top advisers. This morning Deputy National Security Adviser Mira Ricardel, she's out of her White House post, though she is expected to remain in the administration.

CAMEROTA: And then there are the election results which keep getting worse for Republicans. Two more House races were called for the Democrats overnight, giving them a net gain now of 32. Also, reportedly nagging at the president was that trip to Paris. It became something of a PR nightmare. We're told the president is furious at chief of staff John Kelly or his deputy for that. In a new interview, then, with "The Daily Caller," the president did not exactly give Kelly a sense of job security nor DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen. The president only said he'll make a decision on Homeland Security soon and to expect some changes before the end of the year.

Let's bring in "New York Times" White House correspondent Maggie Haberman. Maggie, it's great to see you in that snowy backdrop in Washington, D.C.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's a lot of snow for D.C.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And a stormy backdrop so that we can ask you about what's going on inside the White House, no pun intended.

HABERMAN: That was very well done.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

So the president, there has been lots of reporting that the president's mood is quite dark. There's all sorts of different influences from Melania to the midterms. What's your reporting on where he is today?

HABERMAN: Pretty similar. But I think that we're missing the part that is the most significant right now about his mood, which is he has spent three days with his lawyers preparing answers to questions from the special counsel Robert Mueller, who he has been tweeting about with abandon this morning. I think that there are a combination of things that are making his mood dark.

And look, I think that we tend to veer too much into presidential mood ring and look away from what he's actually doing. But what this could end up impacting right now is what he says in those questions, how he approaches the special counsel in what his advisors insist they believe is the end stages of the Mueller probe, and it could impact what he does with his staff. He is extremely frustrated with his existing West Wing staff. We know there are a number of cabinet appointees who he has been looking to make a change with. We already did it with Jeff Sessions. We know that Kirstjen Nielsen is somebody he has been disinterested in for quite some time, and I think that because she is so closely tethered to John Kelly, she is a protege of his, that this is seen as a way of getting to Kelly more easily, and certainly being angry at Kelly's deputies is a way to do that, too. Whether we see changes before the Thanksgiving holiday I think is the big question, but changes are coming.

BERMAN: And Maggie, you were the first to point out to me at least that he was with his lawyers, as of yesterday, it was 10 to 15 hours. And you're saying there is still another day, Wednesday, more meetings with the lawyers.

HABERMAN: Yes.

BERMAN: I think that is fascinating, especially as we're reading what he is writing this morning, which is some of the highest level of vitriol that I've seen against Robert Mueller by name, saying that the inner workings are a total mess. And again, I would note that he may know more about the inner workings now because Matt Whitaker is overseeing the investigation. But this is a little bit new from him.

HABERMAN: Yes. This is certainly stepped up. And remember, there was a timeframe where his lawyers had gotten him not to tweet about Mueller. That was their big accomplishment was don't talk about the special counsel. You can tweet about anything else or most anything else. They had tried getting him out to do that, too. That didn't work. But you can tweet in this lane. Don't tweet in this lane. And he, a few months ago, started tweeting about Robert Mueller pretty frequently. He talked about the probe itself as a witch hunt. He raised these conflicts that almost everybody believe are imagination but that he insists are real and should be disqualifying. He has vented about those privately. Now he's taking it public. The fact that this is how he is reacting after several days with his lawyers going over written responses to written questions from Mueller I think is pretty telling about where his head is.

CAMEROTA: So the question, of course, Maggie, the $64,000 question is what is he going to do about it? HABERMAN: Great question. Great question. And I think that anybody

making a prediction is making things up. I think we have no idea where this goes. I think we have no idea whether Whitaker will be there past, say, January, which is the timeframe that I have heard. Whitaker has told other people he doesn't know how long he will be there. Whether Whitaker will try to make this final report a sparer version of what it might have been otherwise, whether he will make it public, whether he will still be able to survive with this crush of negative headlines, we don't know.

I have heard very definitely from Trump's lawyers, but again nothing is true until he then does it, he does not look into firing Mueller is what I have heard repeatedly. He realizes that is a stove way too hot to touch.

[08:05:08] But I think the thinking amongst some of his advisers is that with Matt Whitaker there you don't necessarily have to do that. The report could end up being thinner. The report could have a thinner recitation of facts. The report might never become public. The report might never be seen. And so whether they are going to -- it is true that it is within his power, it seems, on one argument to appoint Whitaker, but I think the point Jeff Toobin made before is does that make it smart to do? They clearly see Whitaker as something of an influence policy.

BERMAN: And again I should point out that the first sentence of his tweet where the inner workings of the Mueller investigation, and we could know more about the inner workings because Whitaker is there. I don't know.

HABERMAN: He also could be engaging in hyperbole, as he likes to --

CAMEROTA: He also could be engaging in projection. Sometimes when the White House is accused of something, they say, I know you are but what am I, and they project immediately that same complaint on to outside.

BERMAN: You're a puppet.

CAMEROTA: No puppet.

BERMAN: No puppets here. Maggie, in addition to many other things, you are reporting that the president is now once again on this leak hunt.

HABERMAN: Right. Well, it's exactly that. He gets in these phases, and he hasn't been in one of these in quite some time, where he tries to figure out where information is coming from. He identifies a name, certain staffers while talking to other staffers. The last time that I recall that he was in this type of a mood was the very first few months of his administration when they were beset with leaks. He was completely fixated on trying to stop them and, of course, never has. I think the leaks got somewhat better when John Kelly came in, but they went back pretty quickly to where they were at the beginning of this year, and it's never really changed. But it is some way I think in his mind of trying to have control over

an uncontrollable situation. And when he is facing times of extreme stress, he tends to burrow down on something small that he can focus on, and I think right now it's leaks.

CAMEROTA: So Maggie, as you pointed out earlier, sometimes we get mesmerized by the mood ring and analyzing what's going on with the mood.

HABERMAN: It glows, so we get mesmerized.

CAMEROTA: And it changes color.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: But we do need to talk about actions, right? So yesterday there was a big bipartisan move. And that was this criminal reform act. It's called the First Step Act. It reduces the three strikes for drug count from life to 25 years. It reduces sentences when a firearm is used. It reduces basically -- there was always some hue and cry about these mandatory minimum sentences, and that took all of the kind of authority away from judges. And so now they will have more latitude.

HABERMAN: Right. They will be able, I think, more freely -- again, remember, this is a tentative deal. The text of the actual bill is still being drafted. Mitch McConnell has been a little bit in both places on whether he is going to try to make this happen and where it is as a priority.

The president supporting it is a huge deal. This helps give it momentum and potentially gives cover to Republicans and conservatives who have been concerned about supporting a measure like this. And him helping move this forward is a significant moment and it is important to note. If this passes and he signs it, this would allow judges to downwardly depart from certain sentences in a way that they hadn't been able to before. This really is aimed at nonviolent offenders, aimed at first offenders as opposed to repeat offenders. It is aimed -- except in one category. It is not aimed as sex offenders. It is not aimed at violent offenders. But what it is seen as doing is rectifying some of what is widely considered at this point by criminal justice experts as the damage caused by the 1994 crime bill, which disproportionately impacted African-American men in particular.

BERMAN: And it is really interesting because this is the product of a lot of bipartisan work from a lot of people.

HABERMAN: Over a long period of time.

CAMEROTA: And Kim KardaShian, right?

BERMAN: Van Jones, Rand Paul, people from both sides here. It is fascinating. And it could very well be -- the big sticking point was Jeff Sessions, among other people. He was against it, and also Republicans in Congress. But President Trump may be that missing link to push it over. It may be one of the only things President Trump can push this through a Republican Congress.

HABERMAN: I think that that's true. I think that this is absolutely one of those situations where because the president, despite the fact that he has in some ways governed as a typical Republican, he's not a typical Republican. And he is able to accomplish things that another president just might not be able to. And there are -- his approval rating is already so negative in certain areas that it doesn't really hurt him.

And let's be clear here. Some of his advisors see an electoral advantage for him on this, that it could improve his support among African-American voters, which is anemic at best right now. And even if it only improves it marginally in a close election, that could help.

[08:10:03] CAMEROTA: Great to talk to you about all of the doings in the White House.

BERMAN: Be safe in all that snow there.

HABERMAN: I'll do my best. Thank you. It's a treacherous time. Appreciate it.

CAMEROTA: The drama is building in Florida over the recount in the governor and the Senate races. Overnight election officials in Broward County did finish their ballot recount. All 67 Florida counties face a 3:00 p.m. deadline today to complete that machine recount, but Palm Beach County may not make it.

So joining us now to talk about all of this we have a senior political reporter for "Politico" in Florida, Marc Caputo. Marc, you have your finger on the pulse of everything that happens in politics in Florida. Are they going to get this recount done today?

MARC CAPUTO, SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER, POLITICO, FLORIDA: Well, as you said, it looks like Palm Beach County decided to not finish on time. In fact, last night, Susan Bucher, the election supervisor of Palm Beach County said we're in prayer mode and then they went home. Last I checked, that is not quite how prayer works. You have got to actually do some works in order to have your prayer fulfilled. But maybe the Lord helps those who help themselves. We'll have to see.

More broadly, we are looking like we will have all the counties, or at least 66 or 67 that are going to complete. And it is going to go to a manual recount in the Senate race and probably agricultural commissioner race. So let's hang on and wait and see.

And then breaking news this morning, Judge Walker in Tallahassee ruled sort of in favor of Senator Nelson, giving voters until 5:00 p.m. on senator to cure mismatched signatures on provisional absentee ballots that they case that so far is at least a pool of 4,000 voters. It could be as high as 7,000, 7,800. The problem for Bill Nelson is he's down to 12,562 ballots to Governor Scott, and he's going to need, obviously, more than 110 percent of that 7,800 to break his way. And if you just look at the state demographics, that's obviously not going to happen outside the fact that of course he can't 110 percent of the vote. Maybe it can because it's Florida. Who knows?

CAMEROTA: Wow.

BERMAN: Let me read back a wonderful quote from a wonderful article written by you. You basically write, or you had a quote from one official saying that to win Nelson would need to pull a rabbit out of a hat, but there is not enough rabbit.

CAPUTO: Right. And that's probably the fundamental problem that Nelson has. Now, also quoted in there was a Florida State University professor that said, changing the metaphor slightly but sticking with the magic, or at least cards, that Bill Nelson was going to need a royal flush. He has about four lawsuits out there to expand the pool of accepted ballots or ballots to be counted that aren't being counted now or shouldn't be counted now under current Florida statute.

If he does all of those things, Bill Nelson does, if he gets a court to rule in his favor, which, well, you look today, maybe it is not as doubtful as it was yesterday, but remember this lawsuit is now being appealed to the 11th circuit, so we'll have to see. If he wins at the court, then he has this big expanded pool of ballots. And even then he still might not do it because if you look, since the year 2000, we have had 26 races across the country, statewide races in different places. Only three of them have had the margins flipped. That is the winner who thought he was the winner before the recount became the loser, and vice versa. And in all of those cases, the pool of votes, the margin was only in the hundreds. Again, in this race, in the Senate race, the margin is 12,562. That's pretty big. It is not impossible because, again, it's Florida. But it's still looking very likely. Likely, not definite, that Governor Scott is going to be senator-elect.

BERMAN: Nothing is impossible in Florida.

CAMEROTA: Well, President Trump thinks that he knows what has gone wrong in Florida. He gave an interview yesterday. And I just want to read it for you. "The Republicans don't win, and that's because of potentially illegal votes. When people get in lines that have absolutely no right to vote then they go around in circles. Sometimes they go to their car, put on a different hat, put on a different shirt, come in and vote again." You monitor these things, Marc. Did you see lots of illegal voters running around in circles and then running out to their car and then putting on a disguise and changing out of one hat and putting on a different hat and then coming back in to vote?

CAPUTO: Didn't see that. Wrote in the Florida playbook today that maybe President Trump has seen too many episodes of Scooby-Doo where he thinks that people can be fooled by simple masks and the like. Also in that same article he gives a quote that you need voter I.D. to buy cereal. Last I checked you don't. You don't need any sort of I.D. to buy cereal. And also in Florida we do have voter I.D. You do have to present it at the pools. You cannot fool people by changing your mask or, better said, by changing your shirt, even your mask, or your glasses. But the easiest way to commit voter fraud, which is still very

difficult in Florida, is by absentee ballot, mail-in ballots. Guess who casts more absentee ballots in Florida, Republicans or Democrats? It's Republicans. I'm not accusing Republicans of committing fraud. I'm just saying that in person voting is the hardest way to commit fraud, especially in Florida, where you do have to sign in and you do have to show ID, and they do check your name off of a list.

[08:15:00] You can't just walk in there and say, "Hey, I'm John Smith." or put on your Trump mask that you wore on Halloween, Hi I'm President Trump, I'm going to be voting in the precinct closest to Mar-A-Lago. It just doesn't work that way.

CAMEROTA: He deserves a Scooby snack.

BERMAN: The mystery machine. We have the mystery machine waiting outside to take you home.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Only the best for you Marc Caputo.

CAPUTO: It's got a whole bunch of absentee ballots in the mystery machine, so -- or mystery mobile, I should say.

BERMAN: Yes, it's a good point.

CAMEROTA: Thank you, Marc.

BERMAN: He even corrected me on my Scooby-Doo. He's that good.

CAMEROTA: Right - reference - I can see that. All right Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell will not let a bill to protect Robert Mueller come to the floor. Why not? And one senator supports Mitch McConnell's idea. Why Senator John Kennedy says that bill is unconstitutional. Next.

(BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Retiring Republican Senator Jeff Flake threatening to vote against President Trump's judicial nominees if bipartisan legislation to protect the Special Counsel does not receive a floor vote. His threat came in response to Mitch McConnell blocking a bipartisan floor vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JEFF FLAKE, R-AZ.: I have informed the majority leader that I will not vote to advance any of the 21 judicial nominees pending in the Judiciary Committee or vote to confirm the 32 judges awaiting confirmation on the Senate floor until S. 2644 is brought to the full Senate for a vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:20:10] CAMEROTA: Joining us now is Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana. He is on the Judiciary Committee.

Good morning, senator.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R), LOUISIANA: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: What do you think of your college, Senator Flake's, ultimatum there?

KENNEDY: Well, it's Senator Flake's prerogative to do that. I don't agree with him. Jeff's one of my favorite people, but I don't agree with this legislation. Number one, I think it's unconstitutional. But, more importantly, I don't think it's necessary. I have seen no overt acts by anyone to try to either fire Mr. Mueller or interfere with his investigation. I don't think he should be fired. I think he needs -- I would like to see him wrap it up in a report to the American people.

But all of this is based on pure speculation. It might happen. It could happen. Or word that it's going to happen. That's not the basis in my judgment on which to pass a bill that, at best, is marginally constitutional.

CAMEROTA: Well, some people would say it's based on signs and storm clouds gathering. And here's one example of that, this morning's tweet from just a few minutes ago from the president.

He says, the inner workings of the Mueller investigation are a total mess. They have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts. They are screaming and shouting at people, horribly threatening them to come up with the answers they want. They are a disgrace to our nation and don't care how many lives they ruin. These are angry people, including the highly conflicted Bob Mueller, who worked for Obama for eight years. They won't even look at all of the bad acts and crimes on the other side. In caps, a total witch hunt like no other in American history.

Does that suggest to you that the president is ramping up his anger about this?

KENNEDY: Well, I -- one of the things I've learned in 22 now almost 23 months in Washington is that people up here like to talk. You've got to watch what they do. The president has demonstrated acute frustration with the -- with Mr. Mueller's investigation. I'd probably feel the same way if I were in his shoes. But I know of no overt steps that he has taken to obstruct the investigation or to fire Mr. Mueller. And given the way that people leak up here, I think we would have heard, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Well, I understand that, senator, but I mean what -- what people would say is that you are being too reactive instead of proactive. By the time he -- if the president were to fire Mueller, it would be too late. And so what your colleagues are saying is, let's do something now to protect Mueller before it's too late.

KENNEDY: Well, I heard -- I heard Senator Coons this morning on your show. And that's a clever argument. I just -- I just don't agree with it. If President Trump were to fire Mr. Mueller, I think you would see a sharp and immediate reaction from the United States Congress. I think President Trump knows that. He's an intelligent man. I don't think he's going to fire Mr. Mueller. I've seen no indication that he's going to fire Mr. Mueller.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but --

KENNEDY: I think -- I think he doesn't like Mr. Mueller and he's not happy being investigated. But I'm not sure I wouldn't feel the same way.

CAMEROTA: Well, just play that out for me.

KENNEDY: OK.

CAMEROTA: So if he were to fire Mueller, what's that sharp reaction from Congress that would be effective?

KENNEDY: I don't know exactly what would -- what the instrument would be, but I think Congress would take steps to make sure that the investigation is completed. Not because of anything President Trump did or didn't do, because of the American people.

Serious allegations have been raised about the sanctity of our electoral system and they've got to be addressed. And Mr. Mueller's been at it for 16 months. I hope he will bring it to a conclusion. And I hope he will report directly to the American people. The American people are smart enough to figure it out for themselves. If somebody did something wrong, indict the hell out of then and prosecute them.

CAMEROTA: And what if -- what if --

KENNEDY: But -- but let's bring it to a conclusion.

CAMEROTA: Fair enough.

What if Matt Whitaker, who's now in charge of overseeing the Mueller investigation, doesn't want it -- the results to be released to the public? How could they be released to the public?

KENNEDY: I think -- I think Congress could take action there. I would certainly support legislation to make it public. But I've seen no indication that the acting attorney general has taken that position. I've heard a lot of speculation. I'm not saying it's not well intentioned or people don't believe it, that Mr. Whitaker might do this and might do that. And so far, to my knowledge, he hasn't done any of those things.

[08:25:00]

And I just think we ought to give the man a chance, give him a chance to find the men's room at least before we start saying he's doing a lousy job. But that's just my opinion.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean what's -- well, look, what's given people pause about Matt Whitaker is that he's been a vocal critic of the Mueller investigation and the scope of the Mueller investigation.

KENNEDY: Right.

CAMEROTA: So it's not like people are making it up out of whole cloth. He's on the record as saying that he's a critic of the Mueller investigation.

KENNEDY: Right.

CAMEROTA: Does that give you pause about him?

KENNEDY: Well, certainly what -- words matter. But I have, again, not to repeat myself, I've learned in Washington, D.C., people talk a lot. What counts is what they do. And I know he's been critical. He made some comments. He, meaning Mr. Whitaker, made some comments about Marbury versus Madison that I don't agree with. There are a lot of things people say that I don't agree with, but I -- I try to watch what they do before I take affirmative action.

And, honestly, Alisyn, I haven't seen anything done by anybody in this administration to try to impede Mr. Mueller. I have seen the president and others be critical of his investigation. But, you know, this is America. You can believe, and within reason, say what you want.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean I think that one of the things that has just raised some antennas this morning is the wording of President Trump's tweet where he says the inner workings of the Mueller investigation are a total mess. How does he know that? They have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts. How does he know that? They are screaming and shouting people, horribly threatening them to come up with the answers they want. How does he know that?

KENNEDY: I don't know the answer to that. As we've talked about before, I've suggested that the president -- to the president respectfully that tweeting a little less would not cause brain damage. But he likes to tweet. That's his prerogative. He's going to keep tweeting.

CAMEROTA: No, I know. I mean I'm just -- I'm just asking whether --

KENNEDY: And -- but -- but -- but -- but tweeting -- tweeting is a -- is a long way from firing somebody or obstructing justice.

CAMEROTA: No, I -- I get it. It's not the tweet, it's that -- that there's a suggest that Matt Whitaker may be sharing some information since he's now overseeing the Mueller investigation, maybe sharing it with someone who is the subject of the investigation.

KENNEDY: And -- and if we get evidence of that, I will be the first to take action. But we don't have any evidence.

CAMEROTA: Senator John Kennedy, we appreciate, as always, your perspective. Thanks so much for being here.

KENNEDY: Happy Thanksgiving, Alisyn, to you and John.

CAMEROTA: You too. Thanks so much. You too.

BERMAN: All right, he is said to take over as the Head of the House Judiciary Committee in just a few weeks, and he says his first subpoena will be for the acting Attorney General Matt Whitaker, so what does Congressman Jerry Nadler want to ask him first? That's next.

(BREAK)

[08:30:00]