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Giuliani on Mueller Questions; Mystery Deepens After Family Murdered; Coking in Camerota's Kitchen; Politics with Family. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 22, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:30:00] ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Rudy Giuliani also saying he wasn't given any timeline, any sense of when this may end. That's probably not surprising to a lot of people. We know how tight lipped the Mueller team has been, Josh. But Rudy Giuliani now admitting that they don't know when this could be over.

He talked a little bit about the types of questions, specifically that at least one involved this meeting that Donald Trump Junior had, of course this infamous meeting at Trump Tower. We're only getting his side of the story, though, Josh.

So, you know, based on the way investigations are done, obviously, is there anything to read into here other than Rudy Giuliani wanting to his get story out there first? Is there -- is there some other takeaway that you're pulling?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, so we're seeing two sides of this. So in any investigation, you have this battle, this match of wits where, obviously, you have investigators. That has their own investigative strategy. That has been very opaque, as you mentioned. We haven't heard from Mueller's team. They've been very tight as far as holding that information.

On the flip side, Giuliani and the president, I mean they're laying their cards out, you know, for all intents and purposes, and I think it's part of this strategy that, you know, to play on this victim narrative that, you know, the president is a victim of this witch hunt. Look, we've done all we can. We're trying to cooperate with these people. Here they keep coming back at us. This is unfair.

And, again, the audience is their base, the public, to try to, you know, appeal to them and say, look, we are the victims of an out of control government. I don't think, and I've talked to a lot of former colleagues in the legal profession that agree with me, that I don't think the president ever intended to sit down face to face with Robert Mueller. He mentioned to the press several times that he would love to 100 percent.

But, again, it's very difficult for him because that gives him great exposure. I think they're trying to split the difference here. They say, well, you know, Mueller can give us questions. But at some point, again, they're going to return to that victim narrative that, look, we -- they just keep coming back at us asking for more and more and more. This is so unfair. This is part of a strategy we're seeing play out right in front of us.

HILL: In terms of those questions, Giuliani saying that they looked like a law school exam in terms of what the questions were. One would imagine they'd be -- there may be some, you know, more direct yes-no questions, did you know about this, did you not? But this is an intense investigation. So shouldn't they be like a law school exam, Shan?

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Oh, well, I don't think they should be like a law school exam which suggests that I think Giuliani is trying to spin that as his very technical and perhaps overly specific. But it's going to be broad ranging. I mean as Josh knows, you're going to ask open-ended questions. You're going to have subsets depending on what answers you get to lead into other areas. You want to make sure that you cover everything you can because it's not a direct examination in court, it's part of an investigation, so you want to go very broad with that.

So by agreeing to have to submit written questions, you're not going to get like three questions, you know, did you do this, did you do that? It's going to be very, very comprehensive in order to set the stage for what has got to be follow-up questions. And I have to think that any prosecutor is going to want to question the president in person.

I completely agree with Josh, I don't think they had any intention of exposing the president to his own devils by letting him answer questions.

HILL: And that obviously is something that's been a topic for some time and most people siding with both of you on that one.

Before we let you go, just -- just interested in both of your takes on this. Josh, there is talk, too, about what could happen for the president as this new Democratic controlled House comes in, of course, in January, and investigations into the Trump companies.

How much of that is a focus is it your sense right now?

CAMPBELL: So if you think about why we have divided government and why the electorate came and said, look, we want two parties now, you know, with their hands on the levers of power. It's because, you know, it left unchecked one branch of government, one particular party can run roughshod over the rest of government. And, you know, with the Trump Organization, with the president, again, when we use that word opaque, we haven't seen those tax returns. There have been a lot of questions. So I think that the White House should brace itself for these investigations.

And, you know, there's been this question briefly about whether, you know, the Democrats will overplay, whether they're going to, you know, go too far as far as subpoenaing things. If you think about, you know, us, the lay viewers, as we're sitting there watching this government play out, every single day has felt like a month or year with this administration because we've seen scandals and new stories over and over and over. If you look back over the last two years, those are issues that this

House of Representatives, the leadership, will now have to go back and look through. They have a lot of work to be done. Again, you know, they don't want to risk overplaying their hand, but there's a lot that the public needs to know about what has transpired in the last two years.

HILL: It has felt like a lot.

Shan, I'll give you the last word.

WU: Sure.

I think they are a business under siege. There's already so much litigation, so much investigation directed at them, and it's only going to get worse. I don't really think the Democrats can overplay their hand. They're going to use their subpoena power. And I've been predicting it's going to be a full employment act for white collar lawyers in D.C.

HILL: It also means that you will get plenty of air time, so there's that, too.

Happy Thanksgiving. Thankful for both of you guys. Appreciate it. Thank you.

WU: Happy Thanksgiving.

CAMPBELL: Happy Thanksgiving.

[08:34:50] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a family murdered at a New Jersey mansion. A brother in jail. Details on this mystery, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: Scary moments for nearly 300 holiday travelers on board an Amtrak train last night. That train, on its way from Montreal to New York, when two cars broke free from the rest of the train as the train was moving. One passenger said he saw it happen from his seat in another car, saying a passenger in that car yanked the emergency brake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILLY OSHER-DUGAN, PASSENGER: We were right at the front where the car had separated. And all we start seeing is these -- these sparks in the front by the entry where we usually walk between the cars. All these sparks and then all this noise. And then suddenly we started slowing down and the rocks started flying in. So -- and then we finally slowed down to the point where we stopped. And we weren't sure what was going on. You know, it wasn't -- I mean it was -- it was a little scary, obviously, but overall it was just -- everyone was calm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: At this point we have heard no one was hurt. Passenger were put on another train. They ultimately made it to New York overnight. Amtrak says it is investigating what went wrong.

BERMAN: We have a deepening mystery out of New Jersey. A family of four murdered in a mansion there. The brother of the homeowner has been arrested and charged with trying to burn down his own home while his family was inside.

[08:40:03] Our Athena Jones joins us now with more.

This is a twisted story.

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really is. And there's a lot of question marks here. We're talking about two fires at the homes of two brothers that were about 11 miles apart. One of those brothers and his entire family killed.

Paul Caneiro, the surviving brother, has been arrested and charged with aggravated arson for setting his own home on fire with his wife and daughters inside. Authorities say he used gasoline to ignite it.

Now, the wife and daughters did escape. And Paul Caneiro's attorney is saying that his client maintains his innocence. His family is behind him, supporting him. No evidence has emerged to suggest a reason for why he would do such a thing and that he expects to be fully exonerating.

But here's where the mystery deepens a bit.

Eleven miles away you had a fire at Keith Caneiro's house. That's Paul Caneiro's brother. Keith Caneiro, found shot dead outside the home. His wife and two young children found inside, burnt badly.

Now, the Monmouth County prosecutor believes that they were killed before the house was set on fire. But, either way, we have four mysterious deaths 11 miles apart.

And the Monmouth County prosecutors is saying, don't leap to conclusions. They're still investigating whether these two fires are linked.

We do know that these two brothers ran a company together. It was a computer services company operating under the name of Square One. It -- sales and services of computers, but that's really all we know so far. There are a lot of other questions. Why did Paul Caneiro set his own house on fire and what exactly happened with this family of Keith Caneiro.

HILL: Wow.

BERMAN: Athena Jones, thanks very much.

Like I said, a deeply troubling story. And I know there are more questions right now than answers for sure. Appreciate it.

HILL: Thanks.

Thanksgiving, of course, brings families together. Talking politics or frankly anything these days at the dinner table could drive them apart. So we are here to help because John Berman is a giver.

BERMAN: I'm a giver.

HILL: And so this morning some dos and don'ts as you prepare to break bread. We're going to help you keep the peace. That's next.

BERMAN: Beer is a do.

HILL: Beer is a do. Wine is a do.

BERMAN: Beautiful.

HILL: Bourbon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:46:02] BERMAN: We have a Thanksgiving Day surprise for you, and it's such a surprise we don't even know what it is.

Oh, my God!

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, guys.

HILL: It's Alisyn Camerota!

BERMAN: Oh, my God!

A. CAMEROTA: Happy Thanksgiving.

BERMAN: What is she wearing?

A. CAMEROTA: Camerota's kitchen (ph).

You know, I know that you guys are always wondered what I do when I'm not with you. I just revel in my domestic bliss here at home. Here's my turkey today that I've just gotten up early to prepare. It's 15 pounds. It's the third turkey, because there will be 32 of us.

HILL: Wow.

A. CAMEROTA: I have stuffed it with rosemary. And, you know, we're just living life here.

Look who's just gotten up, my incredibly helpful teenage daughters have come in to help me.

HILL: Yes.

A. CAMEROTA: (INAUDIBLE) just in time to help me get ready for Thanksgiving. Fantastic. You guys are live on TV.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Great!

HILL: This is fantastic.

A. CAMEROTA: I run such a tight ship here that they'll just do whatever I say, you know? It's like military precision.

(INAUDIBLE).

So and look who else is up! Oh, my gosh, my son is here. Look at -- Happy Thanksgiving.

(INAUDIBLE).

Nate, how do you like your turkey cooked?

NATE CAMEROTA, ALISYN CAMEROTA'S SON: Very moist.

A. CAMEROTA: I knew you were going to say that.

BERMAN: That was awesome!

A. CAMEROTA: Nate's (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: That was awesome. Well done. It's like the Cleaver household.

HILL: This is pretty fantastic.

BERMAN: (INAUDIBLE) Beaver here. This is fantastic. I've never seen you so happy.

A. CAMEROTA: I know. You know what? I am so happy, in fact, that I was thinking if this works we should do this more often. I could work from home.

BERMAN: You know what? No -- no one ever anchors a cable news morning show from home. It's just not done. It is not acceptable at all.

A. CAMEROTA: (INAUDIBLE).

HILL: I don't know. She's sort of setting a precedent.

I'm also wondering, because your house is on the way to my family's house today, Alisyn, so like what time should I stop by for appetizers?

A. CAMEROTA: OK, I hope you will come, Erica, because we have so much food. I'm roasting chestnuts right behind me at the moment. I have a turkey stock that I'm making in that pot. As you can see somewhere we have pie.

But what the big thing I do is I do deep fry this bird.

HILL: Yes.

A. CAMEROTA: And when I deep fry it, I put on my protective gloves like this for the hot oil, and then I put on my protective eyewear like this.

HILL: Very important.

A. CAMEROTA: Kids, get down! Take cover! And everybody runs. What do you do, Nate?

You just crouch down?

N. CAMEROTA: Yes.

A. CAMEROTA: He just runs around. So, anyway, it's very delicious.

BERMAN: Are you getting paid extra for this? Is there like some kind of how-to deep fry a turkey video with goggles thing that -- it's great.

A. CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean they don't recommend doing it inside, but I find it cold outside, so I do it inside.

BERMAN: You do what you have to do. You do what you have to do.

Thank you very much.

Can I have your office if it doesn't go well with the deep frying? That's all I want to know.

HILL: Are you going to breakthrough?

BERMAN: No, exactly.

HILL: He's going to open it up.

Happy Thanksgiving.

BERMAN: Happy Thanksgiving to all of you. Have a wonderful day.

A. CAMEROTA: You guys, too.

And I must say, on a serious note, I am very grateful that I get to work with you guys every day. You guys are wonderful. Have a wonderful day with your families.

BERMAN: You too. Right back at you.

HILL: Right back at you.

BERMAN: Her kids seem to love her.

HILL: I know.

BERMAN: I mean that's the takeaway here.

HILL: Are you saying your kids wouldn't do that, even for the cameras?

BERMAN: Look, I'm here. That's a reason I'm here this morning. Let's just say that.

Families across America will come together today to give thanks and enjoy a delicious meal. But what do you do when someone brings up politics? HILL: Oh, politics.

Here to help you navigate that tricky subject, the author of "The Opposite of Hate" and CNN political commentator Sally Kohn, and comedian Paul Mecurio, who currently stars in a one man show, "Permission to Speak," right here in New York City.

Great to have both of you with us.

Listen, it's the kind of thing where --

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Happy Thanksgiving.

HILL: Happy Thanksgiving.

Even nowadays I feel like if you -- if you would say to your guests and your family, we are going to have a politics-free Thanksgiving, it doesn't really exist anymore, Paul. Everything stinking thing is political.

[08:50:03] PAUL MECURIO, COMEDIAN: Yes. I -- by the way, I didn't know if she was making a turkey or working with plutonium with the gloves and the goggles. That was great.

HILL: Maybe that's her secret with the deep fryer.

MECURIO: Exactly.

I mean I think you just really have to try to avoid the conversation. The best -- one of the best ways I know of is to appear on a morning national television show and then avoid your family altogether. So I want to say thank you --

HILL: We are here to help.

MECURIO: Thank you for having me.

I think, look, if anything comes up just say, look, I'm not taking sides, OK. Just say, I feel our country is being properly directed by a strong nation. Unfortunately, that nation is Russia. But that way it kind of skirts the issue altogether.

BERMAN: Yes, that's going to work well at your Thanksgiving meal.

Sally, you do what one does, which is, you put down a number of tips on your Instagram and you illustrated it with rabbits, as one does.

HILL: Cute, cute rabbits.

BERMAN: Cute rabbits.

HILL: Yes.

KOHN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Explain to me -- KOHN: Thanks to illustrator Brad Montagu (ph), yes.

BERMAN: So what are we supposed to do to get through today?

KOHN: Well, look, I -- it is fair to not talk politics. That is a perfectly fine choice. Talk about anything else. That's OK.

If you want to talk about politics, and, you know, from my perspective, I've watched, for a last couple of years as everyone on both sides of the aisle, but especially on my sort of liberal, progressive side of the aisle, we tends to go off on social media. Oh, you know, I'm so mad about these people in my community or my family who vote this way or that way or feel this way about this issue or that way. And we rant about it on social media. And we complain about maybe our relatives. But then when we have the chance to actually engage constructively, we want to take that opportunity constructively.

And so that's the key, if you're going to talk about politics with your loved ones, screaming, throwing out insults, throwing mashed potatoes is the wrong way to do it. It's the wrong way both morally, but it's also -- it's not going to work, right, because it's the wrong way because no one ever has been yelled into changing their mind.

So that's why if you're going to do it, do it right.

MECURIO: Well, I -- it's a lot more fun actually to throw mashed potatoes, but I feel like --

HILL: Yes, because you're not on the clean-up crew.

MECURIO: Exactly. Exactly.

If you -- but if you sort of delve into that stuff, you know, something inevitably happens, you know?

I think the best way to avoid it, too, is, instead of a kids table, you have a millennial table, and you sit at that table, because millennials never talk politics unless it's about like "Star Wars" or like "Game of Thrones" or something like that.

HILL: Maybe a celebrity who's endorsing someone on the IG.

MECURIO: There you go. Nice.

HILL: Kids these days.

In all seriousness, I do -- I do love the tip that Sally has on there, and some of them are, you know, kind of basic things like, don't be a jerk. Kind of a novel idea, but I'm going to get behind it.

BERMAN: How do you do that?

MECURIO: Right.

HILL: Well, for you it may require more work -- BERMAN: That's what I'm saying. I need help on that.

HILL: But he has been taking notes, Sally, I don't know if you can see this.

But you also say listening is really important, which is key. So even if you're trying -- let's say you want to avoid the politics, right, and you can't be on morning TV like Paul here but you want to avoid it and inevitably there's that person in your family who wants to throw mashed potatoes, whether literally or figuratively, and wants to engage and wants to get into that heated discussion, how do you handle that, Sally, if you're just not in the mood to engage.

KOHN: Well, look, I'm always -- first of all, I am in the mood to engage and I actually think this is where -- look, this is where we make change. But, I mean, it's true, this is like -- and people are frustrated with our politics. They're frustrated with the state of the world. These are the moments you have to talk about the issues you care about and to help change people you love.

And the key thing either way is to remember that how you talk to people matters just as much as what you say. And no one -- listen, you -- it's hard to change your mind. Well, it's hard to change other minds, too. And you think you're right about your perspective. Well, they think they're right, too. And so all good, constructive conversations begin with a little bit of compassion and a lot of listening, a lot of trying to actually understand where people are at and letting them share their perspective, their feeling -- their feelings and deeply, seriously doing a lot of listening and even validating and just trying to understand before you share your perspective.

BERMAN: Paul, you say don't take sides. Is that possible?

MECURIO: I don't think so. That's why I kind of say, you've got to avoid it because we live in such a divisive society now. I mean, like, what could you possibly -- maybe the only thing you could agree on is that Trump was right to pardon the turkey. Like, that's pretty much the only thing where both sides would agree. But, otherwise, I feel like we've gotten so strident in our positions that you have to agree with all of my points or you're completely wrong on everything, right? There's no sort of common ground. And I think that sort of becomes the issue.

And I think Sally makes a good point, like compassion, listen to the other side. I don't know if it's going to happen, you know. I mean, it's -- you're better off talking about the "Wizard of Oz," which is like a fictional government where everything actually worked and was functional than sort of what's going on right now. So I feel like it's -- you can try it, but, I don't know. Does it work? Tough to say.

BERMAN: Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

MECURIO: Exactly. Exactly.

BERMAN: That's what I like to say. And don't be a jerk. That's what I also like to say.

[08:55:01] HILL: Don't be a jerk.

MECURIO: Right.

BERMAN: All right, Sally Kohn, Paul Mecurio, thank you so much.

MECURIO: Thank you.

BERMAN: Happy Thanksgiving to all of you. Appreciate it.

KOHN: Happy Thanksgiving.

BERMAN: More of "The Good Stuff," next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: It is time now for a Thanksgiving edition of "The Good Stuff," the thankful good stuff. One organization in Connecticut is making sure the needy have everything they need to enjoy the holiday. It's all a part of the Great Thanksgiving Project put on by the Bridgeport Rescue Mission. They provide more than 3,200 families with not only a turkey and a bag of fixings, but also warm winter coats as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA LYONS, COMMUNITY GUEST: Without them, I don't know if it would have been possible because of financial struggles this year.

TONYA SHELTON, COMMUNITY GUEST: This holiday is kind of rough for everybody, so I appreciate them allowing us to get coats and turkeys. I think this is a blessing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: One hundred volunteers a day help pitch in to make this project possible.

HILL: So great.

From our family, we have lots of members of our extended CNN family here today, to yours.

What about on the count of three, you guys, can we do a happy Thanksgiving? Ready. One, two, three --

[09:00:01] CROWD: Happy Thanksgiving!

HILL: Have a great holiday. CNN "NEWSROOM" starts right now.