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Remembering Clinton's Impeachment; Head of Border Protection Should Step Down; Remembering Penny Marshall; Withdraw from Syria; Trump Hates Christmas Parties. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 19, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:30:00] RON FOURNIER, COVERED PRESIDENT CLINTON FOR THE AP, 1988- 2001: Two thoughts. He's lying and his presidency is over. I mean I've covered him long enough. I just knew that he wasn't telling the truth. And I thought -- I mean, I was shaken. I walked back to our booth in the back of the filing center there literally shaken. I thought that I had watched a presidency unravel.

What I didn't realize was how President Clinton and Joe and Mike McCurry (ph) and the staff was going to handle this. That they would spend as little time as possible focusing on what he called the politics of destruction framing the other side, and spend most of his time talking about what he was going to do to make the country better to help people. He didn't talk about himself as much as he talked about the American public. And that's why his poll ratings went from the -- from -- you know, they were mired in the 40s and once he got impeached -- actually, once he walked out of the Roosevelt Room, they spiked up into the 60s. When he got impeached, they got into the 70s. And he left office with an extremely high approval rating because he didn't forget who he was working for.

BERMAN: Not often that a White House communications operations gets praise from a White House reporter on how you spun something for months and months, Joe, but it was a choice. You guys made a choice to handle this a specific way.

JOE LOCKHART, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Yes, and it contrasts completely with what's going on now. I think we knew that what the president had going for him was that he had done a good job for the people. I mean wages were rising. Unemployment was -- the longest peace time expansion peace time expansion, peace treaties in all corners of the world.

If he made it about himself, we were -- I think we were doomed. If he made it about the public, we thought we had a chance.

You look at what Trump has done. It's the exact opposite. You get up every morning. You see tweets with him complaining and whining. It's all about him. And that's the reason I think, you know, his communications effort is failing.

BERMAN: But what -- but, Ron, and, you know, you heard plenty of attacks on Ken Starr as this partisan operation. FOURNIER: Yes. Now, for every attack he was making on Ken Starr, he

was talking eight or nine things that he said he was doing for the public. Donald Trump could flip that as well. He could talk less about his enemies and more about what he's doing for the pubic, but he has chosen not to.

And, also, Bill Clinton didn't go after the institutions of government. He didn't talk about how the FBI was crooked. He didn't talk about how the Department of Justice was rigged. He didn't call the press the enemies of the people. He didn't like the way we were covering things, and we covered them tough, as Joe can tell you, but he didn't call us the enemies of the people. He didn't condone the murder of a reporter. He didn't try to undermine the sanctity of our political institutions.

Donald Trump is making this about him and he's turning us against all of our institutions. And he's not focusing on things like criminal justice reform. He's not getting infrastructure bills passed in the legislature. He's not framing what he's doing with the tariffs in a way that might help people here in Detroit. He's talking about himself. He gets up every morning and talks about himself. And that would not have worked for Bill Clinton. And my guess is it's not going to work very well for Donald Trump.

BERMAN: I just remember one story of mine from that day, Ron, which you'll appreciate being an AP veteran. When Clinton was impeached and the AP bulletin went out, you know, Bill Clinton impeached, I printed it out thinking it would be a piece of history, like the old wires used to be, the wire tickers. It turns out that, you know, a laser printed piece of paper ain't worth nothing. So it didn't really --

FOURNIER: I got one of those at home, too, actually.

BERMAN: Yes. No, so --

FOURNIER: It is a piece of history.

BERMAN: Still, it didn't last quite as long as I thought it would.

Joe, that day was also fascinating because Speaker-elect Bob Livingston, here was a guy who was supposed to replace Newt Gingrich.

LOCKHART: Right.

BERMAN: He was the speaker designate I guess is what you would call him.

LOCKHART: Yes.

BERMAN: He had to step down because of his own personal scandals that day.

LOCKHART: Yes.

BERMAN: That day.

And I want to play a clip of you from that day responding sort of to all of this.

LOCKHART: Right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOCKHART: I believe the president firmly believes that the politics of personal destruction in this town, in this country, has to come to an end and it has to stop soon. And in that spirit, the president's wish is that Representative Livingston would reconsider the decision he announced on the floor today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: First of all, you're more handsome today than you were then.

LOCKHART: Well, thank you. Thank you.

BERMAN: But, second of all, your response, which I had forgotten --

LOCKHART: Yes.

BERMAN: Was to come out and say, Livingston shouldn't step down.

LOCKHART: It's an interesting story. That day unfolded without a lot of drama within the White House because we knew it was coming.

BERMAN: Right.

LOCKHART: We knew we didn't have the votes. We had known for weeks we did haven't the votes. And the Livingston thing was a real bombshell. We all sense -- you know, and it didn't take a political genius to know, this was a problem for us.

And I ran over to the Oval and the president was just coming over to work, and we were waiting for the chief of staff and a couple of others. And I said to him, what do you think? I mean we were just making small talk. And he started to talk and I started furiously writing it down. And when everyone got there I said, hey, guys, this is what he just told me. I think I should just go out and say this. And I went out two minutes later, said, you know, this is what the president believes, and somehow I think the president's instincts struck the right note, which is, we've got to stop, you know, and I'm willing to say Bob Livingston, you're -- you know, you're forgiven. I'm forgiven. Let's get back to the people's business. And it really was one of the most remarkable, political moments that I've ever seen, much less been involved with.

[08:35:19] BERMAN: Ron, your final thoughts.

FOURNIER: Yes --

BERMAN: Oh, go ahead, Ron.

FOURNIER: Well, first of all, you haven't mentioned that I'm more handsome than I was 20 years. So it's (INAUDIBLE) that I'm not.

BERMAN: You look exactly the same as you did 20 years ago, which is more of a statement on 20 years ago than it is today.

FOURNIER: Let me go back in the way back machine and push back on Joe like I used to.

Yes, that was all true. Joe's relating exactly the way I'm sure it happened. But there's something else going on. Bill Clinton did not want the public to equate an extramarital affair with a public official having to resign. They saw that as an existential threat if the precedent was in place that if you had an affair the right thing to do, the righteous thing to do would be to resign. That could have been turned against the president. So it was also a very smart but purely political pivot as well.

BERMAN: And that was the upside down world that we all lived through in 1998. And just remember, this was the beginning -- the impeachment was the beginning of the trial in the Senate. We'll get to re-live that some over the next few weeks, I think, and I hope you both come back to talk about those truly strange moments.

FOURNIER: Love to.

BERMAN: Ron Fournier, great to see you.

FOURNIER: Great seeing you guys.

BERMAN: Joe, thanks for being with us. Appreciate it.

LOCKHART: Thanks.

BERMAN: Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: The world is remembering Penny Marshall today. And we want to take a look back at her trail-blazing legacy. Stay with us. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:25] BERMAN: There are new calls for the head of U.S. Customs and Border Protection to step down. Congressman Joaquin Castro made the demand after a seven-year-old Guatemalan girl died in federal custody. Castro and a congressional delegation toured Lordsburg, New Mexico, the facility where the little girl was briefly treated before she died.

Our Ed Lavandera live in El Paso, Texas, with the very latest.

Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

Well, that delegation came out of that tour of those border checkpoints and the Border Patrol station where this young girl and her father were processed through about two weeks ago with scathing criticism of Customs and Border Protection. As you mentioned, Joaquin Castro, the congressman from Texas, calling on the commissioner of CBP to step down. They say the conditions inside of those facilities are simply inhuman. And they -- many of the lawmakers also critiqued the leadership of CBP for not adapting quick enough to these changes in migration. Officials say that we're seeing many more family units, parents and their children, arriving through these remote area of the U.S.-Mexico border and that the agency isn't doing enough to be able to prepare to handle that. And that includes bringing in more medical equipment.

The commissioner of the Customs and Border Protection, after that tour with lawmakers, did tell reporters that they, they agency, will begin the process of moving more medical equipment down to these regions that are so far from any kind of hospitals or first responders that can really treat any kind of emergency situation. They say that they will do -- move that kind of equipment in there to better respond to these types of situations.

But a scathing critique from these lawmakers who toured the border checkpoint entry in a little town called Antelope Wells and also in Lordsburg, New Mexico. In fact, one lawmaker said that the room where the young girl was treated after arriving at the Border Patrol station was essentially a utility room and that the young girl was put on a table that when they toured the facility had two microwaves on it.

John and Erica.

HILL: Wow. All right. Ed Lavandera with the latest on that. Ed, thank you.

We also want to update you on a story we brought you yesterday. The Yemeni mother of a two-year-old boy on life-support will arrive in the United States this evening. The mother had been stuck, you may recall, in Egypt. She was unable to come to the U.S. due to the travel ban. Her expedited visa, however, to travel from Cairo was finally approved yet. She plans to go to her son's hospital in Oakland, California, immediately so she can say her good-byes to her son.

BERMAN: All right, tributes pouring in after the death of legendary comedic actress and director Peggy Marshall. She passed peacefully Monday at her home in the Hollywood Hills due to complications from diabetes. She is now being remembered rightfully for her legacy of laughter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PENNY MARSHALL, ACTRESS: That's right, tomorrow Laverne DeFazio starts living.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As an actress, Penny Marshall, was one-half of funny girl duo Laverne And Shirley.

MARSHALL: Once in our lives we should have (INAUDIBLE).

CINDY WILLIAMS, ACTRESS: You mean, done the deed?

MARSHALL: If we die now, we saved it for nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "The Happy Days" spinoff became a hit of its own in the late '70s. Marshall garnered three Golden Globe nominations for her role as tough talking tomboy Laverne.

MARSHALL: She would not put up with crap. She'd hate you. And she was a realist.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That spirit proved more useful behind the cameras, as Marshall went on to direct her own TV episodes and feature films.

Marshall's 1988 comedy "Big" starring Tom Hanks became the first female directed film to gross more than $100 million at the U.S. box office.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, look at yourself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, look at yourself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two years later, she directed the drama "Awakenings" about a group of catatonic patients that received three Oscar nods, including best film. Her next project "A League of Their Own," was a box office home run.

MARSHALL: The league, yes, no girl wanted to write it. They don't like baseball.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Marshall's depiction of an all-female baseball league during World War II was listed on the National Film Registry in 2012.

Through the years, Marshall credited her success to her brother, legendary director/producer Gary Marshall.

MARSHALL: I wouldn't have a career if it wasn't for my brother. Let's be honest, he's the one that pointed me in this direction. He got me parts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Their playful relationship on display during a cameo for the 1993 Halloween phantasy "Hocus Pocus."

GARY MARSHALL: They call me master.

[08:45:01] MARSHALL: Wait until you see what I'm going to call you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In her 2012 memoir, "My Mother was Nuts," Marshall recounted her upbringing in the Bronx. She recalled two failed marriages, motherhood at 19, and bought with lung cancer. Challenges she overcame with an unassuming sense of humor.

MARSHALL: I tried to make people laugh and I moved them in some places. My legacy is that I hope I gave you some enjoyment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: Some enjoyment? A lot.

BERMAN: YOU know, I could say, I like have two generations of being impacted or effected by Penny Marshall. "Laverne and Shirley" reruns for years coming home and then watching "Big" and "A League of Their Own" with my children, who love it and laugh.

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: I mean to be able to make generations of people laugh, what a gift.

HILL: It really is. I need to -- remind me, I have not watched "A League of Their Own" with my boys yet. I need to get on that.

BERMAN: There's no crying in baseball.

HILL: There is no crying in baseball.

BERMAN: There is no crying in baseball.

HILL: Such a great movie.

Still to come, President Trump promising he would have Americans saying Merry Christmas again. Not that everybody stopped, let's be honest. Has he, however, had enough Christmas cheer this year? A new report about the president's very long December, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:14] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BERMAN: All right, there is breaking news.

CNN has learned the United States is preparing a full and rapid withdrawal of troops from Syria.

Let's get right to Barbara Starr at the Pentagon with the very latest here.

Barbara, what have you learned?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: What we are learning, John, is that President Trump made the decision yesterday, communicated it to the Pentagon and now military planning at this hour is underway for what is being described to CNN as a full and rapid withdrawal of some 2,000 U.S. forces on the ground in Syria. The president, we are told, ordering those forces to get out of Syria.

They have been there to help train local forces fighting ISIS, to engage in counter-terrorism missions themselves to go after ISIS. There are ISIS remnants still very much on the move in Syria in the eastern part of the country. What happens to ISIS now and to the fighters that the U.S. has been training remains to be seen. Will those fighters have any support from the United States or will they be left on their own? Russian forces also very active in Syria. What will they do now?

Now, the U.S. has forces across the border in Iraq that are able to launch artillery strikes into eastern Syria. That may be one solution. And we are not having firm information yet about whether the U.S. will still conduct air strikes in Syria. Right now this is all related to withdrawing those 2,000 ground forces from eastern Syria.

John. Erica.

HILL: All right, Barbara, I'll take it. Thank you.

President Trump, of course as you may recall, famously promised to end the so-called war on Christmas. "New York Magazine's" Olivia Nuzzi is reporting that President Trump may have a different battle he's waging, that he regards presidential Christmas parties with a special loathing and goes out of his way to escape early.

Joining us now, Washington correspondent for "New York Magazine," Olivia Nuzzi's with us.

So it's a fun read, I have to say, the latest piece. It's fascinating. There's a part of me that says, though, if he is, as you write, by December 26th he will have attended 21 parties, more than 52 hours of mingling and handshakes and pictures and smiles, I feel like that could weigh on anybody.

OLIVIA NUZZI, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, "NEW YORK MAGAZINE": Yes, it is the most relatable antidote I've ever heard about the president. And I have to say, who among us would like to stand there and shake hands for two and a half hours twice a day, twice a week, the entire month of December?

But I do think it's funny that he complains, according to the people I spoke to currently inside the White House, and previously in the White House, that he complains openly about this. He thinks it's very silly. He tries to get out of it. At one time he even -- at least one time he even had Mike Pence take his place in line at one of them.

HILL: Just (INAUDIBLE) across the room and said, I need you over here, Mr. Vice President?

NUZZI: Yes. Apparently. A very last minute change of plans. And the vice president took his place and took photos with his supporters.

HILL: You mentioned some of your sources say he finds them silly. You know, he doesn't really like -- he feels like he could be using his time more effectively on other issues.

NUZZI: Right.

HILL: Is that really what it's all about for him, or just doesn't want to use his time in this way, or is there something more to his disdain for this season of -- for the parties?

NUZZI: Well, this year they have the -- they lessened the number of events where he has to take photos and shake hands with his guests. There are about 600 people per party at the White House. And one White House official told me that thought that that was perhaps because he is a noted germophobe. I don't know if that really is the case.

But the idea that he has more important things to do is certainly undercut when you see what he is usually up to each day. He plays a lot of golf in his free time on the weekends, as we know, I think more than any other president. And he tweets a lot, as we know. He's tweeting this morning. So the idea that he's got more important things to do, I don't know how well that holds up.

HILL: We should point out, you also spoke with Dan Pfeiffer for this piece, who, of course, was a senior adviser to former President Obama, who said, look, these parties can weigh. And we found that when we did reduce the number of photo ops and the time spent in line, it definitely helped.

NUZZI: Right.

HILL: So he's not the only president to deal with this.

NUZZI: No. He's certainly not the only president to deal with it and he's certainly, I'm sure, not the only president to complain about it. But as we know with Donald Trump, I think he is probably the only president to complain loudly enough that it gets mentioned to reporters with some frequency.

HILL: You also note from a person close to the White House, is how they're describing in your piece, that perhaps part of the issue is that these parties are not necessarily about Donald Trump. Even though to some degree they are.

NUZZI: Right.

HILL: People are invited to the White House. They may get to meet the president. That's a big moment for a lot of people. But, overall, they're not about the president.

NUZZI: This person went on to say that Christmas is about, I think they said, quote, the Lord Jesus Christ and it's not about Donald Trump. And that may explain his sort of aversion to celebrating this on a regular basis. I don't know if that's true, but this person does have more insight perhaps than I do or any other reporter does based on who they are. But it wouldn't surprise me to talk about Christmas all the time. I don't think -- he's not very good at staying on topic when the topic is not Donald J. Trump.

[08:55:26] HILL: Did you get the feeling that anything may change for the parties in 2019 just based on what you learned about 2018 and some of the small changes that were made over the past year in terms of those parties?

NUZZI: Well, I learned from another White House official that he's been very happy, the president, with the way they made changes this year. As I said, they are fewer photo lines. He doesn't have to stand there. It's not such a slog. So I would imagine maybe next year they get rid of them altogether, except for law enforcement.

HILL: Right. All right, well, we know the press party is gone this year. Although I think you said good riddance in your piece. So, there you go.

NUZZI: Good riddance. We don't need that. HILL: Olivia, always good to see you. Enjoy the holidays. Thank you.

NUZZI: Thank you.

HILL: We are waiting to see how the president will weigh in on the federal judge who said he was disgusted by Michael Flynn. The latest on the Russia investigation, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, good morning, everyone. Top of the hour. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

We have breaking news.

We begin with a U.S. defense official tells CNN that the U.S. is planning a full and rapid withdrawal of U.S. troops from Syria. We are told that President Trump has ordered this withdrawal.

[09:00:06] CNN's Barbara Starr, she's at the Pentagon with more.

Barbara