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Shutdown Talks at Stalemate as Trump Heads to Border; Can Trump Legally Declare National Emergency to Pay for Wall?; Furloughed Federal Workers Speak Out. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 10, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: This trip is not going to change a damn thing.

[07:00:04] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Buh-bye.

It looks every more likely that the president might declare a legally- challenged national emergency to try to get billions of dollars for the border wall, money that Congress will not wall, money that Congress will not give him.

And this morning we're learning new details of how the president could use part of the Pentagon budget to pay for it and order the military to build it. So maybe there is a glimmer of hope on Capitol Hill for breaking the impasse. A small group of Republican senators said to be working privately on a potential deal.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's bring in our guests. We have chief political correspondent Dana Bash; and CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Great to have both of you here in studio.

I see you checking your BlackBerries. There's some sort of breakthrough on Capitol Hill that we should know about?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Maybe from 1990 we have a BlackBerry.

CAMEROTA: That's my phone. Let me show everybody. I still have the keyboard.

BASH: I love it.

CAMEROTA: So I'm trapped in the '90s.

BASH: I love it.

CAMEROTA: Love these.

BASH: OK. No. Not yet. Not yet. No. Break-through on the shutdown, no, definitely not. I mean, not -- and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

CAMEROTA: Because we had heard that there were a group of Republicans. BASH: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Who were quite uncomfortable with the government shutdown.

BASH: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And that they have had a confab behind closed doors, and they're trying to anything out something palatable to Democrats.

BASH: Yes. There are. And OK, so -- so Lindsey Graham and several other Republicans met yesterday with Jared Kushner. And they're trying to figure out a way out. Some Democrats, I think, are involved tangentially. But here's the problem.

If they come up with, my understanding is, you know, let's say it's $3 billion for the wall and several other what they call sweeteners for Democrats -- let's say they come up with the deal amongst themselves -- you still have to convince the president and, frankly, the Democratic leadership, which is now not interested in giving an inch on the wall; because they see how politically imperative the president sees it for himself, which makes it even more imperative, politically, for them to not give it to him.

BERMAN: And you have to --

BASH: It's gotten -- it's gotten that dug in.

BERMAN: Sorry. You have to convince Ann Coulter also and Rush Limbaugh, who are the ones who will cry amnesty the minute that DACA or the DREAMers are included. And they already are saying such things

Dana, you've been through a whole bunch of budget negotiations before and shutdowns before. When Alisyn asked you if there's a glimmer of hope here you're like, "Oh God, no."

BASH: No. Well, that's why. It's because -- it's not as though there aren't people who are genuinely trying to get to yes, genuinely interested in a legislative fix here.

But they're dealing with such unchartered territory, in the president that is in the White House and the tone that he set on saying, "I want this wall no matter what," and the reaction to that tone over two years that led to the election of a Democratic speaker. And she now feels beholden to her people not to give in.

BERMAN: One more thing before we let Jeffrey get a word in edgewise. Are Democrats at any risk of misplaying their position here?

BASH: Maybe.

BERMAN: Because from our reporting on CNN, after Trump left the meeting, then Vice President Pence said to Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, "OK, what's your counteroffer," and they didn't give one.

BASH: That's exactly right. CAMEROTA: Is that what the 800,000 people who are going without

paychecks tomorrow want them, the Democrats, to be so dug in. They don't make a counteroffer?

BASH: I think that's so important. And that's why, finally, smartly, the president and the rest of the White House are trying to turn the discussion and turn the messaging away from wall, barrier, whatever you call it, into border security. Because border security as a -- as a notion and a need is very popular, not just among Trump's base. And so they do potentially run a risk if that new messaging works.

BERMAN: What the Democrats will say, though, is that "We did give something. We did negotiate a year ago."

CAMEROTA: Of course, a lot more.

BERMAN: "We did give something. We did negotiate in December."

CAMEROTA: Agreed. But yesterday was a new day.

BERMAN: I understand that, but I'm just telling you what the Democrats will say.

I'm going to put wards in Dana's mouth, because I know she feels that the most likely outcome of this is the president declaring a national emergency and taking appropriated defense dollars, shifting it from certain programs and putting it toward the wall.

Jeffrey Toobin, is that legal?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: I think it probably is. I think it is -- it is unlikely to be stopped by the courts. Let's put it that way.

BERMAN: Ultimately?

TOOBIN: Ultimately, for a couple of reasons. One is that the president's emergency powers are phrased in a very broad way.

And second, as a purely legal matter, it is -- it is hard for me to imagine the courts finding a plaintiff with standing, that is, a plaintiff with the legal right to sue to stop this at any, you know, at any early point in the process.

You know, the president's emergency powers have been invoked more than you think. Often on issues that are not terribly high-profile, issues involving Congo, for example.

And CNN.com did an interesting story a little while ago. People can Google it if they're interested. And there are 31 current emergencies. Most of them not -- not controversial at all, but, you know, they indicate the breadth of the president's power here.

[07:05:11] And, you know, at least in the short-term, I think that, if President Trump wanted to do this, the courts would let him. CAMEROTA: And apparently, there is $2.5 billion lying around at the

Pentagon that's unassigned to anything. So here's how CNN reports how he could do it with the money.

Defense Department officials tell CNN that the Pentagon is planning a figure of 2.5 billion in funds they believe they can tap to support construction of a border wall if Trump declares an emergency and orders the military to build the wall.

Dana, is that what you think the next step is?

BASH: But possibly -- and I even would go as far as likely -- Jeffrey just gave the legal reasoning, and then there's the political reasoning, which is he needs an exit ramp. And this, at this point, is the most likely exit ramp that people close to him see.

And frankly, I was even talking to a Democratic senator yesterday who said, just looking at it from the political perspective, not the policy perspective, that's what he said. He said -- the first thing he said to me was "He's got to do a national emergency just from the political strategy point of view," because what happens?

He declares a national emergency. He opens the government, lets it work its way through the courts. And whatever happens, he can declare a political win, because he didn't back down. He did whatever he could over those intransigent Democrats and, you know, he can -- if a judge stops it, he can go after the judge, and that's it.

TOOBIN: That's it. And I do think, just on the substance, we need to pause and consider. You know, this is what happens in authoritarian countries, that when leaders don't get their way, they declare emergencies and go around the usual legal processes. I mean, what's going on here in Congress --

CAMEROTA: That's true.

TOOBIN: -- is a very traditional fight. Congress wants policy "A"; president wants policy "B." The way it has ended through all of American history is they compromise.

BASH: That's right.

TOOBIN: This would be something different.

BERMAN: Which is --

TOOBIN: And, you know, I don't want to be, you know, hysteric here, here, but this would be a different chapter here in American history.

BERMAN: I agree. And whether it's legal or whether it's prudent, are two absolutely different matters. There's the long-term political implications of this could be that future presidents say, "Well, President Trump just ignored Congress and did what he want with emergency powers. Why don't I?"

And it's why these Democratic senators who say it may be politically advantageous for the president to do it. It's not bad for them either. It's not bad for the Democrats either. It gives them something to run on.

BASH: And it also allows them to declare political -- political victory in that they can also say to their base, "We didn't back down in the face of the president." Both of them can declare political victory.

Never mind the fact that you're absolutely right, Jeff. The precedent is -- is ridiculous, frankly, especially when you look at the fact that -- not to get too Pollyanna here -- it is the prerogative of the Congress to fund the government. This is what they are supposed to do by definition.

TOOBIN: Right.

BASH: This is their ultimate job.

TOOBIN: The power of the purse.

BASH: The power of the purse.

TOOBIN: The power of -- to decide how the government spends its money is what we have a Congress for.

CAMEROTA: Understood. I mean, let's just be honest: the 800,000 people who are not -- who may not get a paycheck tomorrow, I don't know if they care about the protocol.

BASH: No.

CAMEROTA: They want the impasse broken. And don't you think that, if is broken by President Trump, that he gets the victory?

BASH: In what way?

CAMEROTA: If he declares a national emergency and they get their paychecks --

BASH: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- then the --

BASH: The whole point of that would be --

CAMEROTA: -- don't you think he gets the victory?

BASH: The whole -- the whole point of that would be to declare the victory. He gets the victory with the people -- look, he -- he fundamentally believes from people who I talked to, a lot of them who are close to him, that this is the one thing can he not -- the one promise that he made on the campaign trail he cannot break. He has to do the wall because that's all anybody remembers.

CAMEROTA: I mean, Mexico will not be paying for it. He now says it will pay for itself. BASH: That's -- that's true. That's true. But the wall -- and we've

talked about that a lot and that's an important fact check. But the wall itself is something he feels that, if he backs down on, that his base actually could abandon him.

BERMAN: I'm not so sure it's a victory as much as not getting the defeat at this point and not having the 800,000 people who aren't getting paid tomorrow --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: -- on his back each and every day going forward.

CAMEROTA: And if they don't blame him, call it not a defeat or victory, but that might just be the right answer for him.

BERMAN: Because people are telling him every day that passes now he's losing with the country. He's winning with his base; he's shored up his base. I think he shored up the Republican Senate yesterday to an extent. But nationally, it's unclear to me that he's winning this argument. He needs the argument to go away.

CAMEROTA: All right. Speaking of winning the argument, John and I have been having a bit of an argument this morning, because I feel that when Trump got up, when the president got up from the meeting yesterday with Schumer and Pelosi, I feel he said, "Bye-bye," like that. "Bye-bye" like that. But he feels he said --

BERMAN: "Buh-bye."

CAMEROTA: No, he said, "Bye-bye." OK? And I'm sure of it. And I'm so sure of it that right now, I'm going to hand out Butterfingers for you guys while you consider the evidence that I'm going to be giving right now.

[07:10:09] So I think he said, "Bye-bye." And here is why I think that. Behold.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Democrats, all they do is they get their votes every four years, and then they wave bye-bye.

Catch and release, how about that one? We caught 'em. Oh, release 'em. Bye-bye.

I used to say grossly incompetent. But it's still a bit strong, isn't it? I don't know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump, you're a bigot! You're a bigot!

(BOOING)

TRUMP: Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: And I rest my case.

BASH: John Berman.

TOOBIN: That's a powerful presentation.

BASH: John Berman, I think you deserve the Butterfingers.

CAMEROTA: Counselor.

BERMAN: Jeffrey Toobin says case closed.

CAMEROTA: Case closed.

TOOBIN: You know.

BASH: You got the jury here. You win.

Sorry, John. Not that we don't love you. The evidence is really hard to --

BERMAN: I will go eat my candy in the --

CAMEROTA: OK. Thank you all very much. Great to see you guys.

BERMAN: All right. President Trump is bringing his White House counsel to the border with him today as he's considers whether to declare this national emergency to pay for a border wall.

So joining me now to talk about this is former attorney general appointed by George W. Bush, Alberto Gonzales. He was also White House counsel under George W. Bush. He's the current dean of Belmont College of Law and author of the book "True Faith and Allegiance."

Mr. Gonzalez, thanks so much for being with us today. I really appreciate it. Do you believe that President Trump has the legal authority to declare a national emergency in order to get the funding to build his border wall?

ALBERTO GONZALES, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, I think it's a close question. I think Jeffrey Toobin was absolutely right: the statute's written in a way that gives a president a great deal of discretion here.

One of the challenges, of course, is where are you going to build the wall? Much -- a significant portion of the border is privately owned. and so what's the government going to do about that with respect to land owners who do not want a wall on their private property?

But -- but -- and I also agree with Jeffrey with respect to even if -- even if the president does have the authority, the question is, is there a plaintiff who has standing? And even if you find a plaintiff who has standing in the courts, the courts may very well avoid this controversy by saying, "This is a political question, and we're not going to deal with this." Also depending on the timing of the litigation, the court said, "This

dispute is not ripe," because they don't want to deal with it; and they hope that the political branches can deal with it on their own.

And so there are -- there are clearly some obstacles in stopping the president in moving forward with this. But -- but on the other hand, I think there are some questions as to whether or not is this absolutely necessary? And even if it's necessary, is there no other way to deal with this kind of problem?

So, you know, it's a close question, but, again, there's a broad delegation of authority here to the president.

BERMAN: Well, it's a difference between "can" and "should." You think it's possible he can do it, legally speaking. But should he is a different matter.

What is the impact on the institution of the presidency, in your mind, if the president of the United States just to -- just decides to go around Congress?

GONZALES: Well, typically, these -- these kinds of disputes, this dance between the executive branch and the legislative branch, you know, are often resolved before you get to a crisis point.

But it is true that often these kinds of disputes are resolved in the political arena and not in the courts. And so the question is who has the political will, the political power to impose their will on the other -- on the other branch of government?

You know, I think if the president moves forward over the objections of Congress, you worry about what damage it does to the relationships between the two branches. It also affects what Congress is going to do with respect to future allocations of power.

It's going to affect the way that Congress drafts legislation moving forward, giving the president this broad delegation of authority. And so there could be some -- some adverse consequences that may affect the executive branch going forward.

BERMAN: Of course, you spent most of your life in Texas, which is, of course, a border state. You worked in the gubernatorial administration of George W. Bush, who famously said, "Family values don't stop at the Rio Grande River."

What do you make of this argument? Do you feel that there is a national emergency, a crisis?

GONZALES: I think the president's position as to whether or not this is necessary to trigger the emergency statute would have more credibility if, in fact, we -- he's moved troops into the region. And I'm talking about armed forces, not National Guard that have been nationalized. But troops, because we have a very serious national security threat that. That -- that hasn't happened yet. And that does undercut the president's argument that there, in fact, a natural -- an emergency which requires the -- the spending of funds that have not been specifically appropriated for a fence.

Look, I think for most -- most Americans, they realize we have a challenge on our southern border, but I think many of them would think is it really worse today than it was, say, two years ago when the president assumed office? If we had an emergency now, didn't we have an emergency then and why didn't we take action two years ago?

BERMAN: And, again, I mean, we have a chart here that proves that point. If you look at the -- the arrests at the southern border here, you look at this, it's at or near an historic low. The last ten years or so have been right around 300,000 to 400,000 people.

[07:15:07] Just as a veteran, last question on this subject, as a veteran of the George W. Bush administration and the idea that family values don't stop at the Rio Grande River, how do you assess the rhetoric that we keep on hearing from President Trump on this?

GONZALES: You know, I actually was pleased by the tone in some of the rhetoric that the president displayed the other night from the Oval Office address. But as a general matter, I think Republicans have hurt themselves over past few years with respect to the tone and some of the rhetoric.

Listen, I believe in border security, but we also have to understand that we are a nation of immigrants. We are a compassionate people. And there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with our immigration challenges.

BERMAN: So the former attorney general of the United States, William Barr, might very well be, probably will be the next attorney general of the United States, as well. He is someone you know. Do you think he knows what he's getting into with President Trump in this job?

GONZALES: Well, I was speaking to someone yesterday, and I happened to mention that, you know, it's hard to imagine working for two different types of leaders in George H.W. Bush and Donald Trump. They're very different people.

Yes, I think -- I think Bill Barr is very smart. He obviously has a great deal of experience in working with the Department of Justice.

And it will be challenging. That job is challenging enough as it is. There will be an additional challenge, but -- and I think Bill Barr is talented enough and wise enough, I think he'll do a fine job at the Department of Justice.

BERMAN: Any need for him to recuse himself from oversight of the Mueller investigation, given that he has written at length, saying it should be limited or actually being critical of parts of it?

GONZALES: I haven't read what Bill Barr has written. I'm assuming that, when he comes into office, he will check with the ethics -- the career ethics officials at the Department of Justice just to be sure. And if he gets the green light, I don't see any problems whatsoever. If they say there's an issue, then obviously, he'll have to make a very difficult decision as to whether or not to ignore that kind of advice.

BERMAN: I will note that Matt Whitaker, the current acting attorney general, was told there was an issue and that he should recuse; and he didn't. I don't have any reason to believe that Bill Barr acts or behaves in the same way as Matthew Whitaker does.

Alberto Gonzales, former attorney general, always a pleasure to speak to you. Thanks very much.

GONZALES: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, John, so our next guests work for the federal government and, come tomorrow, they will not get a paycheck. What message do they have for lawmakers?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:21:22] CAMEROTA: Eight hundred thousand federal workers will not get their paychecks tomorrow. To bring a little levity to this very serious situation, late-night host Jimmy Kimmel is giving one federal worker a job every night.

On Tuesday that worker was Fire Captain Mark Munoz of the U.S. Forest Service.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, ABC'S "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!" So we're going to give you a job tonight if you don't mind

FIRE CPT. MARC MUNOZ, U.S. FOREST SERVICE: All right.

KIMMEL: Just hold still for a second. Now, I've got a little mustache here.

MUNOZ: OK.

KIMMEL: Now, I'm going to put that on you. All right. Now, if you -- Guillermo, you can take the rest of the night off.

GUILLERMO RODRIGUEZ, SECURITY GUARD: Oh, yes?

KIMMEL: Mark is going to do security.

RODRIGUEZ: I can go drink?

KIMMEL: Yes. You hit the road. Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. Mark Munoz joins us now along with EPA program support assistant Lisa Honan. Both Lisa and Mark are currently on furlough and not working because of the government shutdown.

Mark, I want to start with you. What was that experience like, first, being on Jimmy Kimmel? MUNOZ: It was an awesome experience. It was really humbling, at the

same time exciting. And it was good that he actually gave us a chance to put our agency out there and let folks know that we want to go back to work and just give the opportunity to kind of lift the spirits of our family. It's been a hard two weeks. So that kind of lifted up the spirits somewhat.

CAMEROTA: I bet it has. And we'll get to that, all of your particular situation. But did he pay you?

MUNOZ: There was pay involved, not sure yet. I guess the check's supposed to come in the mail, so we'll see how that goes.

CAMEROTA: OK. I hope that check does come in the mail.

Meanwhile, of course your situation is quite serious, Mark. You have seven daughters. Your wife --

MUNOZ: Yes, seven daughters.

CAMEROTA: -- is recovering from cancer.

MUNOZ: Yes.

CAMEROTA: If you don't get paid tomorrow, what happens?

MUNOZ: It's going to be a struggle. I mean, day one when the -- we heard, got word of the shutdown, we already knew it was going to be a struggle. Anytime you hear "shutdown," you already have to start preparing your landlord and utility companies of extensions or whatnot, because there is a possibility you may not get paid. So with knowing we're not going to get paid, it's just going to add onto the stress.

CAMEROTA: You fought the fire -- the wildfires in California. I mean, you're out there saving people's homes and their lives. And so you've had to, as you say, alert your utility companies, alert the bill collectors who are coming to you. What's your plan if you don't get paid tomorrow and this stretches on?

MUNOZ: Just continue to maybe do some side work, look for side work out there. File for unemployment. And maybe, if I have to, even possibly look for other employment.

CAMEROTA: Lisa, both you and your husband are furloughed. Both of you --

LISA HONAN, EPA PROGRAM SUPPORT ASSISTANT: Yes. That's right.

CAMEROTA: -- might not get paid tomorrow or for a while. You have a 1-year-old. You have a 5-year-old, and a month ago exactly, you bought a new home.

HONAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Will you be able to pay your mortgage? HONAN: Hopefully. We -- we were fortunate enough to have a little

bit in savings, but once we bought the house, we pretty much drained that. And now, with -- with the two of us not getting a paycheck, you know, we both filed for unemployment. So that will -- that will help a little bit.

But, you know, it's not just -- it's not just the mortgage. It's, you know, utilities and our children's daycare and dance and before school care. It's -- there's a lot.

CAMEROTA: And I know it wasn't even easy to file for unemployment. There were challenges.

HONAN: Yes. I called many, many times over the past -- the past week. I finally just tried to do it online. And yes, I need to give a year and a half worth of pay stubs, because I'm a federal employee. So it's going to be a little bit of a process before I'll actually see any compensation from unemployment.

[07:25:08] CAMEROTA: And, Lisa, what's the plan? I mean, if this -- you know, at the moment this morning they're at an impasse, and there's no movement in sight. And so for your life, what's the plan?

HONAN: Well, we're going to cut back as much as we can with, you know, with food, with gas. And some of our -- some of our bills, we've been able to talk with them and ask for an extension.

And we do have some family and friends who have offered -- offered to help. So if it comes down to that, you know, once we drain our savings, then we will have to ask family and friends for some help. And then just hopefully, the unemployment will make up the rest of that.

But, I mean, overall, I just want -- I just want this to end. I want the government to reopen.

CAMEROTA: Of course you do. How -- can you summarize how you and your husband are feeling today?

HONAN: Pretty stressed. Pretty anxious, you know. And it's tough. You know, our daughter is noticing in the mornings that, you know, normally we would be off to work when she goes to school. But she's starting to see, you know, Mommy and Daddy are still home in the morning, and she's starting to ask what's going on. And I don't know exactly how to explain it to a 5-year-old, so it's just a little difficult at home.

CAMEROTA: Mark, what's the mood in your house?

MUNOZ: The kids, as well, are starting to notice, you know, why's Dad home? Why is Dad, you know, out there doing landscaping jobs and whatnot? And they're starting to get a little nervous. You know, they're used to their dad going to the station every morning and coming home from work and talking about the day. So they're definitely seeing the change of pace in the home. CAMEROTA: So, Mark, what is your message? We now that lawmakers and

even the president watch our show. And so what is your message to the folks in Washington who are at an impasse?

MUNOZ: Well, my message is come to an agreement. Come to some kind of common ground. There's a lot of workers out there right now that are highly stressed-out. They want to get back to work. So if you guys can come to an agreement, that would be awesome, because a lot of your folks wanted to get back to work and provide what we provide to the community and to the country.

CAMEROTA: And, Mark, from where you sit, do you care about a border wall? Do you feel that they should be so dug in about border security? I mean, does that have relevance to your life today?

MUNOZ: You know, that seems to be the big focus, you know. Do you support the wall, do you not support the wall? Trump's supporter or not? Are you a supporter or are you not a supporter?

I think the biggest focus is just, look at all the folks that are unemployed right now. Look at all the folks that are not working that want to go back to work. So I feel that -- that should be the main focus right now, that there's over 800,000 workers right now that are not working, that are furloughed that want to get back to work.

CAMEROTA: Lisa, what's your message to lawmakers and the president?

HONAN: I want the president and Congress to come together and work out an agreement to end this shutdown now. You know, I don't know how long, financially, that our family will be able to hang in there. And it's not just us, many families are also, outside of federal employees, are affected by this, as well. So just end this, you know, now. The sooner the better.

CAMEROTA: Yes. You know that the Coast Guard had put out tips to their employees that say things like have garage sales, take odd jobs, do some babysitting.

Lisa, does that make sense to you, that this is what your life, these kinds of tips are where you and your husband are?

HONAN: I mean, a lot of that is easier said than done. You know, I mean, it probably will come down to it, to where you could drive -- drive for a, you know, ride sharing service or -- I don't know. I just hope that it doesn't drag on for much longer to where we will have to start selling our family's heirlooms, you know.

CAMEROTA: Mark, your thoughts?

MUNOZ: Yes, I agree. Easier said than done. You know, when you feel that you're into a professional career, the last thing you're thinking about is, you know, driving for Lyft or Uber or picking up side jobs doing landscaping when you're in a professional series.

So it's definitely -- it brings a lot of stress, and a lot of the folks that look up to you in the community look at you like, "Wait, you're a firefighter. You work for the federal government. You're supposed to be in a secure job, a strong profession." And when they hear you're furloughed and you're not working and you're possibly asking for loans and extensions on utilities, it's unacceptable.

CAMEROTA: Well, we hear you. We hear you both this morning, and we hope that lawmakers do, as well. Lisa Honan, Mark Munoz, best of luck to you. We will continue to follow your families' story.

MUNOZ: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thank you very much.

HONAN: Thank you. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: John.

BERMAN: Worried that they might have to sell family heirlooms to pay the bills.

A Republican congressman is crossing party lines, voting to reopen parts of the government. We're going to ask him if he expects more of his colleagues to do the same, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)