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NEW DAY

Will Americans Get to See the Final Mueller Report?; Jury Convicts Mexican Drug Lord "El Chapo"; Reporting Indicates President Trump Will Sign Bipartisan Bill to Fund Government; Vice President Pence and Secretary of State Pompeo Visit Poland. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired February 13, 2019 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: NEW DAY continues right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: And good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, February 13th, 8:00 in the east. And we do begin with breaking news this hour because two sources who have spoken with President Trump tell CNN that he plans to accept the bipartisan deal to prevent another shutdown. However, a White House aide cautions that nothing is guaranteed, as we learned in December when the president rejected the last bipartisan deal that so many people thought he would sign. The president is not exactly embracing this current deal. It only gives him only a fraction of the $5.7 billion he demanded for the border wall.

We are now just two days away from the federal government running out of funding. So the president is under, of course, pressure from prominent Republicans to sign this agreement. And Sean Hannity, maybe the most important voice in President Trump's ear at times, indicates he's now OK with the president taking this deal.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The president declared overnight the wall is already being built. The fact is that zero new miles of barrier have been built during this administration, zero. So what's the play here? Also, a new cloud of uncertainty surrounding the Russia investigations. Why does Michael Cohen keep dodging congressional testimony? And what's with all the new stories floating that Mueller, Robert Mueller might never issue a public report at all?

I want to bring in Dana Bash, CNN chief political correspondent, Margaret Talev, senior White House correspondent from "Bloomberg News," and Chris Cillizza, reporter and editor at large for CNN Politics. The breaking news this morning, Dana Bash, comes from you. As usual, you are hearing from the White House, your sources close to the president, he's signing this. This is going to get signed, there will not be a shutdown.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's what the president himself is telling people. And I spoke to two people who had direct conversations about it with the president. And the message that he is sending is really similar in private to what it is in public, which is I'm not happy about it, I don't believe Congress is doing its job, I should have gotten better. But I don't want another shutdown. And so when this deal that was negotiated in a bipartisan way on Capitol Hill gets through Congress, gets to the president's desk, that he does intend to sign it, but also keep the fight going, as we have been talking about for many, many weeks here.

The president is seriously considering, maybe even more than seriously considering, executive action of some sort using pots of money he knows exist in the Department of Homeland Security, the Pentagon, maybe even go as far as a national emergency which does cause other issues politically with his own base and Congress. But the point is that he wants to keep the political fight going, and that is not going to change.

CAMEROTA: Chris Cillizza, since the president did not get what he wants, he did not get an agreement to build a wall. He did not get the $5.7 billion. It's an interesting psychological exercise and study to see how he is now spinning it to, I guess, himself and at least his Twitter followers to feel good about this. And so he tweeted last night regardless of wall money, it is being built as we speak, which is not true.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: No.

CAMEROTA: But this is what he's now saying. And I guess I'm struggling with whether or not that is digestible for the people who felt so strongly about building a big wall.

CILLIZZA: Well, it's digestible, Alisyn, if you believe that they believe anything he says. But, no. You saw this in El Paso earlier this week. He said, well, the wall is being built already. And as we've have said many times, the wall is not being built already. He said, well, they are building in the Rio Grande now. That's a 14-mile area. This is not Donald Trump's big wall.

I do think there is an element of them or a bloc of his supporters who simply believe whatever he says even if it changes from Monday to Wednesday. So maybe it doesn't matter. Remember, at the start of the congressional negotiations, Donald Trump said it's all a big waste of time. Now, per Dana's reporting, he's very likely to sign what has come out of the waste of time. So what he says yesterday, I say this all the time, what he says yesterday does not really matter to today. And it doesn't tell us anything about tomorrow.

BERMAN: He seems to me to be making clear he is going to do something else or try to do something else, get some other money, Margaret. And James Lankford, senator from Oklahoma, we had him on last hour. Republicans now are clearly making a distinction between declaring a national emergency, which they don't want, or just re-appropriating some money maybe where you wouldn't have to do that. And that, they seem to be saying, Margaret, OK, go ahead, go do that. If you can do it without declaring a national emergency, fine.

MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, BLOOMBERG NEWS: Right, because from Congress's point of view, that's one of the most powerful parts of Congress is the power of the purse. [08:05:04] And so if the president really forces the issue, if he

declares a national emergency, how he does that, that could force some Republicans hands to actually counter him and make efforts to block him. And no one in Republican leadership wants to do that right now.

But do you remember how once upon a time, like for the first year and a half of the administration, the president kept saying maybe we should have a shutdown. Maybe a shutdown would be good. And after a while you realized that's what he wants to do. He's waiting for the time to have a shutdown.

Over the last couple of months, it's begun to shift to maybe -- well, maybe over the last few week, it's begun to shift to maybe we should declare a national emergency, or at least take executive action. And so for quite a while now, the White House and all of the Trump administration has understood that they may need to look for pockets of money. And that's why I think you are starting to hear in his conversations with lawmakers, with Republican lawmakers over the last 48 hours or so, increased signs that he's willing to just go ahead and sign this, say it's not sufficient, and say the fact that it's insufficient is going to force his hand to take executive action.

But the real question is how much money can he get to through executive actions that stop short of the national emergency. And that's why Republicans on the hill as well as in the administration are scouring pots of money to figure out how close to $5.7 billion can he get. If he gets that $5.7 billion or even close to it, we're still talking about 55 miles of fencing, not 2,000 miles of any kind of a border barrier.

CAMEROTA: Good news, the wall is already being built, so I guess we don't need that $5.7 billion.

BERMAN: You asked before, and I think it's the right question. If the wall is already being built then why did we have the shutdown?

CAMEROTA: And why are we still talking about it? And why are we signing this legislation? And why do we need the other pots of money if the wall is being built? But just a graphic for our viewers at home who are following along here, some of the pots of money that Margaret is talking about where he could get it, not all of which require an emergency declaration. So he could get $680 million from treasury forfeiture funds. That sounds like burning a hole in the pocket of Congress. And 700 million from the Pentagon's counter- narcotics funds, which seems like it might be defeating the purpose of fighting drugs at the border. And then there are other things, like $3 billion from the Army Corps of Engineers and $3.6 billion from military construction funds that would require more of an emergency declaration.

It was interesting, Dana, to watch Sean Hannity, who was quite exercised on Monday night when news of the potential deal, the details, started leaking. He was very exercised about how bad this deal was. He was worked up in a lather. But he has somehow worked his way around to liking it. So here is Sean Hannity on both sides of Sean Hannity. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: It's $1.3 billion? That's not -- not even a wall, a barrier? I'm going to say this tonight and we'll get back into this tomorrow. Any Republican that supports this garbage compromise, you will have to explain.

I'm not as conservative as some other conservatives if the president signs the bill, but there's a couple of ifs. Step one, president decides he wants to sign the compromise which would guarantee the $1.375 billion down payment for the wall, OK. That money can be used immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: It was a garbage compromise but now he's not as concerned, Dana.

BASH: He's not as concerned about the president signing it. I can't believe that I'm analyzing a Sean Hannity announcement, but that is what we do because he does have the president's ear, and it matters. What he said is in keeping what I was told from the jump by a conservative House member who really has his ear to the ground on what's going on with the conservative movement but also in the White House, which is that, again, the president now understands the very, very bad move of shutting down the government. He gets it. He saw it. It happened. Ending with the FAA having major issues with planes in the air. That's no small thing. They have to get through it. He's not happy about the deal. Sean Hannity is not happy about the deal. But he has to keep sort of a good face on it. And he has to keep the fight going, which is why he is going to continue to do that and say Congress isn't doing its job, and talk about using the money that you just put up on the screen with his pen, which is also a bit ironic for these conservatives to be OK with that after calling Democratic presidents who used their executive power imperial presidents.

BERMAN: Executive action was the worst thing in the last administration. Now it's, well, it's OK. We don't mind it so much. Maybe, Chris Cillizza, Ted Cruz has an option for the president which is to get the money from El Chapo. Seriously, Ted Cruz, senator from Texas, is proposing --

CAMEROTA: There is something very satisfying about that idea.

[08:10:01] BERMAN: There's $14 billion worth of assets apparently El Chapo controls and he thinks that should go towards the wall.

CILLIZZA: Mexico will pay for the wall after all.

(LAUGHTER)

CILLIZZA: I think they are looking, to Dana and Margaret's points, they are looking for ways to bridge the delta between $5.7 billion and $1.375 billion. There is no way around this. Donald Trump, to sell this to the Sean Hannitys, to the base of his party, needs to look like he's not taking a half loaf or really a quarter loaf.

BASH: How about no loaf?

CILLIZZA: Right. That's the problem. He has to be able to say, I think, look, I'm getting the money. We are going here and here and here and we're going to get this money even if I have to declare a national emergency. It's an interesting idea as it relates to El Chapo. I always think legislatively these things are more difficult to make happen then it looks when you think, oh, yes, they do have all the money over there. I'm skeptical.

CAMEROTA: All right, color you skeptical. Chris, Margaret, Dana, thank you all very much.

Meanwhile, Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo are in Poland this morning shoring up alliances in central Europe and talking about Middle East security. This is a live picture of the vice president speaking to troops at the airport in Warsaw. CNN's Atika Shubert live in Warsaw for us with more. What's the latest?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Both officials actually have U.S. troop engagements today. Secretary of State Pompeo especially watching a live fire exercise. And this is really key to driving home one of their goals here in Poland, which is to show that the U.S. wants to be engaged even more in central Europe to push back on Russia, China influence. And Poland of course is particularly receptive because they are concerned about Russian aggression. And that's why for Poland it's key to have U.S. troops here. Take a listen to what Secretary Pompeo had to say about the U.S. presence here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: We understand that when there is a vacuum, others will seek to fill it, whether that's the Russians or the Chinese. Among my mission statements on this trip, mission objectives on this trip, was to demonstrate America's continued resolve to work alongside countries in central and eastern Europe and the EU and NATO, to deliver security for each our countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHUBERT: Now that's one of the goals of this trip. The other is to really rally U.S. allies around a containment policy against Iran. This is really the centerpiece, this is the conference on Middle East peace and security. That will actually be happening at the Royal Castle here behind me later tonight. It will kick off with a dinner. And Vice President Mike Pence is expected to give a speech explaining the U.S. policy on Iran.

BERMAN: All right, Atika Shubert for us in Warsaw. Atika, thank you very, very much.

Will we ever see the final Mueller report? A longtime associate of Robert Mueller wants to temper expectations. His warning, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:49] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A new poll shows that a vast majority of Americans, 81 percent, want special counsel Robert Mueller's report on Russia to be made public. But it's possible we may never know the full extent of the special counsel's findings.

Joining me now, Shimon Prokupecz, CNN crime and justice reporter, and Garrett Graff, CNN contributor and author of "The Threat Matrix: Inside Robert Mueller's FBI and the War on Global Terror."

Shimon, I was minding my own business yesterday when I happened to glance at Twitter and saw something from you. You were retweeting a "USA Today" piece which went into why and how Mueller -- the report may never go public and we may never hear from him at all. And you retweeted it with the note, I'm leaning toward this happening.

Now, it is my opinion you are one of the most astute reporters on this beat in America. So, when I heard from you, I'm leaning toward this happening, we may never see the Mueller report or hear from him it caused me to pause for a moment. Why do you think that?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, John, first, thanks for the compliment.

So, the thing is -- here's the situation for the Department of Justice and here's why I believe this, because what's happened in the past, certainly under James Comey when he went out and spoke about the Hillary Clinton investigation, we have seen a lot of backlash from the Department of Justice because of that. Certainly the people that are in place at the Department of Justice now, Rod Rosenstein, deputy attorney general overseeing the Russia investigation. He was very much opposed to what James Comey did. In fact, it's one of the reasons they say he was fired.

And William Barr, who's the incoming -- presumably the incoming attorney general also was very much opposed to what James Comey did. So how could the current Department of Justice under the incoming attorney general, the current deputy attorney general possibly talk about an investigation that, A, could contain people that have not been charged, and maybe some wrongdoing that they have found but have not been charged. How could they publicly speak about them in a report or other fashion?

And, secondly, I think parts of the investigation, parts of the case are going to live on perhaps for many years in the counter- intelligence world. The FBI and the Department of Justice don't want to talk about what they have learned and what they have. The other thing I think, finally, you know, the idea that this report is somehow going to answer all of our questions about whether or not the president colluded, whether or not other people colluded and connect all the dots and bring everything together beautifully and nicely and tell us everything that we may want to know, everything the American people want to know, that's not just going to happen.

There are parts of the investigation that we are never going to know about. We'll see if anyone else is charged. Everything so far we should know and has been publicly out there is out there in court documents. Whether or not we see more, I'm one of those people who believes that we may not see a lot more in terms of the investigation for a while.

BERMAN: And you're one of those people I tend to listen to on the subject because of how closely you have reported this.

[08:20:01] Another person now saying it and I'm not sure if you are saying or spinning we may never see anything is the president's former lawyer John Dowd. Listen to what he's said.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JOHN DOWD, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S FORMER ATTORNEY: I don't think there will be a report. The rules of the department say no report. I would be shocked if anything regarding the president is made public other than, "we're done".

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BERMAN: Garrett, do you take him at his word?

GARRETT GRAFF, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't take the president's lawyers, former or current, at their word any time they are speaking. I do think, though, that what Shimon is saying in terms of we are not going to get all the answers that we want out of this report is likely true. That I think sort of people have this idea that there's going to be this 9/11 commission-style moment where there is this voluminous narrative, you know, 800 pages instantly published and available in every bookstore in America overnight. I don't think it's likely what we are necessarily going to see.

One of the big questions though for Bob Mueller is so far he's been totally focused on what we might call criminal crimes. You know, federal violations of criminal law. There's a larger question, and this really is what's ultimately going to end up in Congress's jurisdiction of sort of political violations. You know, there is a voluminous amount of things that may not be a technical federal crime but are things we don't want in American politics.

And this is something that Sally Yates, former deputy attorney general, has been talking about. There is a lot of stuff that may not be technically criminal but stuff we don't want a presidential campaign engaged in. So, how does Bob Mueller deal with the category as he reports out what his findings are?

BERMAN: And it may be interesting. It may not be up to Bob Mueller. Let me read the code on special counsel. This is Code of Federal Regulations, Section 600.8.

Closing documentation. At the conclusion of the special counsel's work, he or she shall provide the attorney general with a confidential report explaining the prosecution or decisions reached by the special counsel. So, Mueller gives it to -- it will be William Barr as of later this

week, what he has found. We don't know if it will include political wrongdoing that may not be illegal, but we do know that it's up to Barr what to do with it. He has to inform Congress what he's seen but doesn't have to hand over the report, correct?

GRAFF: Yes, and there's also -- there is another model we saw during Watergate which most people don't realize where the special prosecutor in Watergate turned over to Congress or was prepared to turn over to Congress before Nixon's resignation, something that was more of an annotated index of evidence, exhibits, grand jury testimony, sort of pointing to possible crimes and violations.

BERMAN: Shimon, I am perplexed by how Michael Cohen keeps skipping out on congressional testimony again and again. I'm not sure we are getting a good explanation for why. He says illness, health. Some wonder if it's because the Mueller report might be coming out or handed over to William Barr.

Do you have a sense if the timing of the conclusion of the investigation is weighing on Cohen's actions?

PROKUPECZ: It could be. And I think we get a good indication would be February 28th date he's now set with House intelligence that he's going to appear before them on February 28. It is very perplexing as to why he keeps rescheduling, right? We know that one of them had to do with the investigation, another have to do with -- you know, he was fearing for his life and his father's life.

And really the latest one is really the most mindboggling he was just out on Saturday, out at a dinner, he's seen at this dinner, at a restaurant in New York. It's Fashion Week. He's out there celebrating, hobnobbing with people, hugging, saying hello.

The day before he's supposed to testify before the Senate Intelligence Committee he says, I can't come. I'm sick. I don't feel well, I have health issues. They're fed up with him, too.

BERMAN: Shimon, we are just about out of time, but a lot of political reporters clear their calendar for February because they thought something could be public. Is that still a good idea to clear your calendar for February?

PROKUPECZ: Look, I think February is a good date. I think everything now points to that certainly. But the question is what happens when William Barr gets in. Do things change? That's the question. We should have an answer hopefully soon.

BERMAN: Next couple of days on that.

Garrett Graff, Shimon Prokupecz, great to have you with us. Thanks so much.

Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, John. Mexican drug lord El Chapo convicted on all ten counts. He faces the rest of his life now behind bars. His legal team plans to appeal. One of his lawyers is here next with what went on behind the scenes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:29:00] CAMEROTA: Notorious Mexican drug lord, El Chapo Guzman, is facing the rest of his life behind bars after a New York jury found him guilty on all ten criminal counts. El Chapo's legal team plans to appeal.

And joining us now is his defense attorney, Jeffrey Lichtman.

Mr. Lichtman, thanks for being here.

So, guilty on ten straight counts. He was described as looking stunned in the courtroom. What was his response?

JEFFREY LICHTMAN, ATTORNEY FOR "EL CHAPO": He wasn't stunned. I think he fully expected it. This case was impossible to win. I think he was convicted before he came to America.

The press, international press, American press completely buried him before the trial, through the trial. Some evidence came in that was not permitted into the trial, came out during jury deliberations.

CAMEROTA: Like what?

LICHTMAN: Horrible things about him that were not true. We were not permitted to fully cross-examine the witnesses. This was a case that our hands were tied behind our backs before we got in. So, he fully expected this.

CAMEROTA: There were 56 witnesses against him.

LITCHMAN: That's a big case. I'm not saying it was an easy case. The case was literally an avalanche of evidence.

END