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Showdown Looms As Dems Ready Subpoena For Mueller Report; Rep. Elijah Cummings (D) Md: White House Clearances A Millions Time Worse Than Clinton Emails; Dems To Subpoena White House Official Over Security Clearances; Trump Punts After Saying GOP Will Be Party Of Healthcare; White House Senior Adviser Tells Surrogates Trump Hasn't Decided Yet If He'll Shut Down Southern Border; Jamal Khashoggi Tortured And Killed Six Months Ago Today. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 2, 2019 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When they say weeks, do they mean two weeks, three weeks, four weeks or longer, we don't know.

[10:00:03]

But if they get it wrong again, then they have a much longer term of much greater depth.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: Yes.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Lots at stake here. No question.

HARLOW: A lot of stake. Great reporting to you both. Thank you very much, Tom Foreman.

SCIUTTO: A very good Tuesday morning to you. It's a busy one. I'm Jim Sciutto.

HARLOW: I'm Poppy Harlow. We begin this hour with what is not happening right now on Capitol Hill. The House Judiciary Committee not receiving the complete and un-redacted Mueller report despite today's deadline. And that means subpoenas will go out as soon as tomorrow.

Also, another house committee, the Oversight Committee, meeting to subpoena the man formally in charge of White House security clearances. At issue, there is a whistleblower working inside the White House claiming 25 White House staffers got clearances only after higher-ups overturned rejections of those clearances from the Personnel Security Office. It's a big deal.

SCIUTTO: That's incredible, senior officials. No action on the healthcare front unless you count democrats set rally outside the Supreme Court, this against the Trump administration's decision to push forward the total abolition of Obamacare. The President who vowed just days ago that republicans would soon be the party of healthcare. Now says, very quickly, Congress will not vote on a new plan for a couple years from now, until after next year's elections. Let's dig into all this with Manu Raju, beginning with Manu on this Mueller report fight. They're not going to meet this deadline today, are they?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, they're not. Six democratic committee chairs in the House have sent a letter to Bill Barr demanding the full un-redacted report, saying that they are prepared to subpoena for this report, demanding bill Barr's testimony, not in May, as he's proposed, but now, according to this letter. And they're saying Bob Mueller should come before Congress and testify as well. They're calling on Barr not to, quote, interfere with the potential Mueller testimony.

Now, at the same time, the President has been going after Jerry Nadler, the House Judiciary Committee Chairman and the House Intelligence Committee Chairman, Adam Schiff. He calls Schiff shifty, and also said these two congressmen will be satisfied at nothing.

Now, I had a chance just moments ago to ask Adam Schiff to respond. He said that the President seems to be concerned about the Mueller report's release.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), C.A.: The House voted 420 to 0 to release the entire Mueller report. I certainly strongly support it. It looks like the President though is concerned about that. He ought to live up to what he said earlier. He ought to support the full release. None of that should be redacted. But, clearly, he's concerned about that coming out.

RAJU: What do you make of him insulting you, calling you shifty Schiff?

SCHIFF: Well, you know, this is nothing new. We have seen these kind of childish nicknames for a year-and-a-half. But he is violating the cardinal rule of childish nicknames, which is you have to pick one and stick with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So Schiff also saying that Bob Mueller, they want him to come before his committee to try to sort it out with several other committees who are also interested in hearing from the Special Counsel. But today, republicans are pushing back at all the democratic complaints, saying that Bill Barr has said he's going to go through the process, look at what is necessary to redact, provide as much transparency as possible and provide this report by mid-April. But, clearly, that is just not enough to satisfy democrats today, guys.

HARLOW: Also, you have got Elijah Cummings, Chair of the Oversight Committee, saying what this whistleblower is alleging in terms of security clearances being pushed through despite recommendations otherwise is in his words, quote, a million times worse than the Hillary Clinton email saga. What's going on here? What are they actually doing about it?

RAJU: Yes, that's what Elijah Cummings told me last night. In his view, what's happening with the security clearances is a million times worse than what happened with Hillary Clinton and the email controversy. In just a matter of moments, this committee right behind me, the House Oversight Committee, does plan to discuss this. What Cummings has threatened to do is subpoena at least one individual, Carl Kline, who is the head of -- former head of Personnel Security at the White House over questions about why he may have overridden concerns by this woman, Tricia Newbold, who Cummings calls a whistleblower who raised concerns about a number of individuals that they should not get security clearances only to later get security clearances.

Cummings called it systemic, says that this shows that the White House is not taking security seriously. But, again, republicans simply do not agree with this, calling Cummings' effort here reckless. And so expect some fireworks at this vote that's going to take place momentarily. But, potentially, subpoenas, we expect, could be on the table in just a matter of moments. Guys?

SCIUTTO: Manu Raju on the Hill, thanks very much.

We're joined by Political Commentator and USA Today Columnist Kurt Bardella. Kurt, nice to have you on the show this morning.

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KURT BARDELLA, COLUMNIST, USA TODAY: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, first, if we can talk about the security clearance issue here. This is 25 people in the White House with access to extremely sensitive information, as well as, of course, access to the President. After we have already seen issues with security clearances, Jared Kushner, for instance, Ivanka trump, issued over the recommendations of security agencies, the President overruling them. First question is, how severe a security issue is this?

BARDELLA: Well, I think that's what Chairman Cummings and the Oversight Committee, that's what they want to find out. It's not just that 25 people received clearances that probably shouldn't have it. What were the reasons why their clearance in the first place was denied and rejected? What are the reasons why people felt they may be compromised? There may be information that could be used against them. We're talking about the top secrets of the nation.

And Cummings is right when he says this is bigger than the Hillary Clinton emails. It is. I worked at the Oversight Committee for republicans for the better part of five years. And I can tell you, if this had happened under the Obama administration, republicans will be holding hearings, issuing subpoenas and saying the same thing.

SCIUTTO: Where are they on this issue then? Because, of course, the Hillary Clinton issue was in large part because there were classified information on these emails sent to the private server. There was so much talk about that, the emails marked C for confidential, et cetera. You remember it. This is more comprehensive, is it not, and involves really overruling security agencies saying there is an issue here. That's different. Are there any republicans who are raising their hand and saying we should be concerned about this?

BARDELLA: Unfortunately, not. And that's what's puzzling because you're right. At the time for the Hillary Clinton and the whole Benghazi episode that lasted for four years, it was all about security. There was all about worrying about classified information. Nobody, by the way, was questioning whether Hillary Clinton was qualified to receive the information, which is what we're talking about right now. The republicans' default position has said, well, actually, it wasn't 25 people. It was only four or five who worked directly in the White House for the President. When that's your default that only four or five people may not have been able to get the information, that's not very strong ground.

SCIUTTO: Plus Jared and Ivanka, which we mentioned that as well.

On the Mueller report, the big question, let's throw out the law for a moment because it's a political judgment to some degree because Barr seems to have a lot of leeway. Will he allow evidence in this report to go public, evidence that Mueller found because he cited it, that the President obstructed justice? Will he let that out there or will Barr fall back on Justice Department protocols and him saying, Listen, I don't want to put stuff out there that's going to to sully people's reputations? How is this going to end?

BARDELLA: Well, it certainly looks like they're not going to meet the Tuesday deadline. Hence, they'll vote tomorrow, the Judiciary Committee, on subpoenaing the report. I feel like just the last hour, President Trump kind of going on this Tweet storm about Adam Schiff, the Intelligence Committee Chairman, and Jerry Nadler, the Judiciary Chairman, he is saying there shouldn't be documents or testimony. He is saying they don't want to cooperate. So I think if the A.G. is taking his cues from the President, they're going to do everything they can to resist complying with the subpoena, which sets up a battle, a legal battle that will have to take place.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it ain't over. Kurt Bardella, thanks very much.

BARDELLA: Thanks a lot.

HARLOW: All right. So also this morning, President Trump punting on healthcare just a week after promising the Republican Party would become the party of healthcare, in the President's own words. Now, he says the GOP plan to replace Obamacare will wait until after the 2020 election.

SCIUTTO: That's a couple years from now.

HARLOW: That's a big deal.

SCIUTTO: Joining us now is CNN's Sunlen Serfaty who is live on Capitol Hill. President Trump's attack on the Affordable Care Act has been a rallying call for democrats. It strikes me that they smell opportunity here. SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Jim. You can see that in everything they have done in the time since, democrats really trying to capitalize on the Trump administration's move on healthcare. Many of those democrats, of course, know that this is essentially a winning issue for them. Many of them ran and won their own races on healthcare, so are very eager to essentially keep the spotlight focused on the healthcare discussion. And that's why in just a few minutes, later this hour, they're rallying outside the Supreme Court. That will be led by Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, to keep the spotlight squarely focused on this, keep talking about this. And certainly, we have seen them do that in the last few days.

Republicans, of course, on Capitol Hill are facing a much different story in the reaction to this. Obviously, they were caught a little bit on their back foot when the Trump administration announced moves to work on healthcare. Many of them were saying we don't know what the plan is here, and a lot of them were just throwing up their hands saying, we're not sure what the plan is here. So certainly, this reversal from the Trump administration, Trump tweeting out this morning that this will be put on the back burner until after 2020, certainly is welcome news for republicans up here on Capitol Hill.

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And later today, we will see democrats again try to capitalize on this issue. They will be voting on a resolution in the House to condemn the Trump administration embracing that lawsuit that would invalidate the Affordable Care Act. So, again, trying to keep the spotlight squarely focused on this. Back to you, guys.

HARLOW: Sunlen, I appreciate the reporting. Thank you very much.

Let's discuss now with Eliana Johnson, White House Reporter for Politico. You know, it was not that long ago that we heard from Marc Short, Chief of Staff for Vice President Mike Pence. The President, quote, will be putting forward plans this year that we hope to introduce to Congress. What happened? And I guess what kind of divide does this show within the White House?

ELIANA JOHNSON, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, POLITICO: Well, you know, the White House had no alternative to Obamacare. The President just last week was pressing a group of four or five republicans on Capitol Hill to come up with a plan. That was at the same time that Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell privately and publicly and House minority leader Kevin McCarthy told the President, sorry, republican lawmakers are not going to be coming up with a plan, and we're not happy with this announcement you made that you want to see Obamacare invalidated. That really left the President with no other choice than to retreat on this position that he wanted to see Obamacare entirely gutted.

HARLOW: So the question then becomes, you know, what are the democrats going to do in response to this? Because you've got 41 percent of voters, if you look at the most recent polling, so majority there who say, healthcare was the most important issue for them in the midterms.

You've also got some issues with the Affordable Care Act, right, in terms of the fact that you've got in 21 percent of counties across the nation in a new Kaiser study, 40-year-old earning $50,000 would have to spend 10 percent of their income on healthcare costs, for example, if they got it through Obamacare.

Do democrats rally around, okay, let's fix parts of Obamacare that we think are broken or are we going to see a bigger split become apparent in the party between those who want, like the Sander's wing, Medicare for all, and those who want to fix parts of Obamacare?

JOHNSON: Yes, it's a great question. You know, I think the President saying that the republicans are going to replace Obamacare after 2020 makes this a campaign issue. It already is an issue in the democratic primary with a split between democrats backing Medicare for all and democrats who want to fix the problems with Obamacare. And now, this gives them an opportunity to press republicans on what is the plan that you're going to replace Obamacare with after the 2020 election?

Two years ago, when republicans failed to repeal and replace Obamacare, they couldn't unite behind a plan. So I do think that gives democrats an opening to really beat republicans over the head or pressure republicans with what is that plan going to look like.

HARLOW: Some republicans in Congress are saying hold on, Mr. President, we don't love the direction you're taking this in. New York Congressman Peter King told CNN, let me pull it up, I just wish the President had ridden the victory wave longer from Mueller to Avenatti. Now, we're talking about, you know, the border, other people talking about healthcare. We're on the defense. e should be on the offense. Is he right?

JOHNSON: You know, the President's move last week in what was arguably the best couple of days of his Presidency when the Mueller report came out and Michael Avenatti was arrested and indicted, his move to switch the conversation to healthcare, which has historically been a losing issue for republicans, really befuddled a lot of his republican allies on Capitol Hill. So I think Peter King, I don't know if he's right, but he's certainly voicing what I think most republicans on the Hill were feeling, including republican leaders Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy, who privately expressed their frustrations to the President who very quickly turned from a winning issue for him, the summary of the Mueller report, to a losing one, which is healthcare.

HARLOW: Eliana Johnson, thank you. Nice to have you.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still to come, will the President make good on his threat to shut down the southern border or will he reverse on that as well? Senior Trump adviser says it all depends on how the week goes. Next, we're going to speak to the White House Director of Strategic Communications, should be an interesting chat.

HARLOW: For sure.

Also, no matter which candidates wins the race for Chicago, the next mayor of Chicago, take a look at the two contenders there. And you'll see history will be made.

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[10:18:48] SCIUTTO: Right now, we do not know if the president will follow through with his threat to close the U.S. border with Mexico. According to a senior adviser to the President, the President has not yet decided but there are growing concerns that a shutdown could have major repercussions, especially on the U.S. economy.

Joining me now to discuss this and other topics, White House Director of Strategic Communications, Mercedes Schlapp. Mercedes, it's always good to have you on our show. Thanks for coming on.

MERCEDES SCHLAPP, WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: Good morning. Thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: So first direct question, is the President going to close the U.S. border this week?

SCHLAPP: Look, we're looking at all options. I think the reality, Jim, is what we're seeing is that we're being left with really little choices at this point. We're looking at in Department of Homeland Security is redeploying resources, moving them from the ports of entry to the front lines because of what we're seeing as a huge surge coming over from the border from the illegal immigrants who are trying to come through the border, and it's putting a lot of pressure on our border patrol agents. It is overwhelming the system. And in essence, we have to take action. And that is why there's this deployment of resources to other areas along the border.

[10:19:58]

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. The last time a U.S. president closed or partially closed the border was after 9/11, this was President Bush, did it for a couple days, reversed that decision because of the enormous economic costs and disruption. You have today the Chamber of Congress, the U.S. Chamber of Congress saying that it would be an economic calamity to shut the border. These are pictures after 9/11, after 9/11. The Center for Automotive Research says the U.S. auto industry would shut down in one week if the Mexican border was closed because of all of the dependence on plants down there for parts, et cetera. Is the President saying that price is necessary to pay today on a step that hasn't been taken since 9/11?

SCHLAPP: Well, what we're seeing is the cost of lives at the border. We're seeing women that are being sexually assaulted as they are coming through the border. We're seeing the fact that smugglers and drug cartels are basically using our weak immigration laws to benefit, to financially benefit, and again, the cost is the endangerment of children and vulnerable families. The cost is that of women who are being sexually assaulted when they take this dangerous journey. And so, in essence, this is a wake-up call to Congress, to these democrats, to take action on this humanitarian crisis and this national security crisis.

As you know, Jim, it was the former Obama DHS Secretary, Jeh Johnson, who said this was a crisis. And for the democrats, they keep calling it a manufactured crisis.

SCIUTTO: I asked someone from Customs and Border Patrol yesterday if he or anyone in his agency recommended to the White House closing the border, if he's heard it. He said no. I asked Trump's former ambassador, the President's former Ambassador to Mexico, whether she during her time ever heard that recommendation. Who has recommended this step to the border? And if it's not coming from his national security advisers, how we do not conclude this is more about politics?

SCHLAPP: Look, the President is looking at all options. And we're being left with no choice, little choices at this point in terms of what we're going to do with our resources. What has had to happen is we've had to move our border patrol agents, about 750 of them, from the ports of entry into the other areas of the border where we're seeing a huge surge coming from illegal aliens, family units who are crossing the border.

So, in essence, there is a crisis. And so what we are asking for is for democrats to take action, Congress to work together to close the legal loopholes so that our border patrol agents have the authority to detain and remove these unaccompanied minors and return them back safely to their families.

SCIUTTO: Okay, another topic, healthcare, which, of course, you know is a hot topic this week but it's also frequently cited as the number one topic for voters, as we head to 2020. Just days ago, the President said he and four or five senators, they had a plan. This weekend, the President's Chief of Staff said that that plan would be ready, in his words, in the next couple months. Now, the President says he's punting this issue until, really, two years from now, after the 2020 election. I'm curious, and I think it's a reasonable question, was there ever actually a plan? And if there was, describe it to us. Can you show it to us? What does it look like?

SCHLAPP: Well, first, let's start with the political reality. The political reality is that the democrats, they are trying to salvage what they can of Obamacare. They are not even happy with the current state of Obamacare, which we know has been a disaster, which has led to skyrocketing premiums, the doubling of deductibles and, really, the huge impact on quality care for American families and individuals.

Also, you have to realize that the democrats now are even wanting to go even further. They want to go into government control healthcare, which we know would result in about 180 million Americans using their private insurance.

SCIUTTO: I know you want to talk about the democrats, but I'm asking about President, because the President is putting his neck out there.

SCHLAPP: But let's talk about the political reality, because democrats want to move --

SCIUTTO: But the president said we're going to be the party of healthcare.

SCHLAPP: -- towards socialized medicine, yes. And what we want to do, we want to offer --

SCIUTTO: But now, he's saying, I will be but I'll be in 2020 or 2021, actually, he said, I'll do it [ph].

SCHLAPP: Well, Jim, again, I present to you the political reality of what we're seeing in the House of Representatives where you have the radical left basically controlling these moderate democrats and pushing and advocating for socialized medicine as well as government takeover of healthcare, which we know would be detrimental to our healthcare system.

What the President wants to do is work with Congress to ensure That we move forward on principles that basically offer more options, more affordability --

SCIUTTO: I just want to know, was there a plan? Was there actually a plan or was the President exaggerating?

SCHLAPP: We have been working on a plan and our goal is to work with Congress and our republican counterparts to ensure that we move forward on a healthcare system that puts patients first --

SCIUTTO: Working on it, but it didn't actually exist.

SCHLAPP: -- as opposed to having the government control your decisions on healthcare.

SCIUTTO: Okay.

[10:24:56]

SCHLAPP: And so what we have been able to do from an administrative standpoint already, Jim, is we've been able to expand associated healthcare plans, offer more options, like short-term duration plans, which allow Americans to choose as opposed to putting them in what you would call a one-size-fit-all healthcare system, which the democrats are trying to push forward.

SCIUTTO: Okay. Another topic I want to ask you about because it's the anniversary today. Six months ago today, as you know, Jamal Khashoggi was murdered, dismembered, body disappeared. As you know, the CIA has assessed that the Saudi Crown Prince directed that killing. And as you also know, because we spoke about this last time you were on the air a couple of months, two months ago, the Trump administration was required by law under the Magnitsky Act to make a judgment as to who is responsible. At the time, two months ago, you said, we are waiting for a thorough and complete review. Where does that review stand and why is it taking so long?

SCHLAPP: Yes. I don't have an update on that investigation, on the review. You know that the President took immediate action in sanctioning individuals on this killing. It is -- it was a tragedy.

SCIUTTO: But not the leadership.

SCHLAPP: It was a tragedy. And they did -- we moved forward on quick sanctions on these individuals in Saudi Arabia. And, again, it was horrific. So I would have to refer you to the State Department for any updates on the review.

SCIUTTO: final question, because, as you know, the CIA has assessed that Saudi leadership is responsible. The Magnitsky act requires the administration to make its determination. If the CIA says that -- are you saying the President still rejects the Intelligence Agency's conclusion on this?

SCHLAPP: Again, the President has been working with the State Department as well as our intelligence community. He took immediate action following the tragic killing of Khashoggi. And, again, I would refer you to the State Department when it comes to figuring out where we are from the review standpoint.

SCIUTTO: We will ask them. Mercedes Schlapp, it's great to have you on. I appreciate you taking the hard questions.

SCHLAPP: Thank you.

HARLOW: Always good to have her voice on.

Ahead, ten days before -- ten days and counting, excuse me, before the United Kingdom crashes out of the European Union, and a top negotiator says no-deal Brexit is looking more likely. This really matters. We'll explain ahead.

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