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Ratings Are in for Last Night's Democratic Debate; Democrats Release Transcript of Closed Rex Tillerson Interview; Majority of Democrat Presidential Candidates Say Climate Change, China Are Greatest Global Threat; 1st Round of Democrat Debate Ratings Exceeds Expectations; New Turn in Feud Between Trump & U.S. Women's Soccer. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired June 27, 2019 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:33:58] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Just got some pictures we want to turn around for you. There he is. President Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, just pleaded not guilty in a New York City courtroom to state fraud charges.

According to his defense lawyer, Manafort is fighting the charges on the grounds of double jeopardy. The state charges involve some of the same bank loans that led to Manafort's conviction by a federal jury last summer. He's currently serving 7.5 years in prison for federal tax fraud, bank fraud and foreign lobbying violations.

It's been a little more than a month ago that former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson quietly met with a top Democrat and top Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. CNN has just obtained a transcript showing what they talked about in a session that lasted nearly seven hours.

So we now know Tillerson's relationship with President Trump was, quote, "challenging." At one point, he repeatedly called Mr. Trump a moron in private.

Looking through this transcript, it seems his biggest trouble may have been with the president's son in law, Jared Kushner.

[14:35:03] He described one incident to lawmakers about finding the Mexican foreign minister out in Washington having dinner with Kushner. Tillerson hadn't even known the foreign minister was in town. Keep in mind, Tillerson was the secretary of State.

Tillerson described how all the color drained out of the foreign minister's face when Tillerson walked to the table. Tillerson saying, "I don't want to interrupt what you all are doing, give me a call next time you're coming to town." That was a quote.

Fareed Zakaria, host of "FAREED ZAKARIA, GPS"

Just the point on Jared Kushner being this shadow secretary of state then and even potentially now. What do you think of that? FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA, GPS": Well, he clearly

still has enormous, an unlimited portfolio in terms of the things he wants to do, the president allows him to do.

It's so unusual in the sense that president's sometimes use aides who they want to use. Franklin Roosevelt had this guy Harry Hopkins, a great businessman friend of his. Henry Kissinger was national security advisor, but President Nixon would often tell him to do things without telling the State Department, without telling the secretary of state.

It makes policy making much messier, much more complicated. It becomes the kind of high wire act. If you can pull it off, and if you can get success, sometimes that unorthodoxy helps.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ZAKARIA: So far, they haven't been many successes.

The Mexico negotiations went fine. Are they because the Mexicans are such an imbalance of power that the Mexicans had to accept whatever the administration wanted?

But if you look at the Trump -- sort of the unorthodox efforts the Trump administration has had, whether directly or through the president, sort of maximum pressure and then hope for a deal. Hasn't worked in North Korea. Hasn't worked so far in China. Hasn't worked much with the Europeans. Hasn't really worked with the Canadians.

The only case in which you can sort of make the case that it worked is with the Mexicans. I don't think that's Jared Kushner so much, as I say, the Mexicans are so much weaker than the U.S. they have to cry uncle.

BALDWIN: You just mentioned the answer. When all those candidates were on stage last night, vying for the nomination in Miami, they were all asked this question, what they saw as the greatest global threat. Here's what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN DELANEY, (D), FORMER CONGRESSMAN & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The biggest geopolitical challenge is China.

(CROSSTALK)

DELANEY: The biggest geopolitical threat remains nuclear weapons.

(CROSSTALK)

DELANEY: Those are different questions.

CHUCK TODD, MODERATOR, MEET THE PRESS & DEBATE MODERATOR: I totally get it.

Go head, Governor Inslee? JAY INSLEE, (D), WASHINGTON GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The

biggest threat to the security of the United States is Donald Trump.

(CHEERING)

TODD: Congresswoman Gabbard?

REP. TULSI GABBARD (D-HI), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The greatest --

(CHEERING)

TODD: Greatest geopolitical threat?

GABBARD: The greatest geopolitical threat that we face is the fact that we're at a greater risk of nuclear war today than ever in history.

TODD: Congressman -- Senator Klobuchar?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Two threats. Economic threat, China. But our major threat is what's going on in the Middle East with Iran if we don't get --

(CROSSTALK)

TODD: Try to keep it --

(CROSSTALK)

TODD: Some of what we've been going through here. One or two words.

REP. BETO O'ROURKE, (D-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our existential threat is climate change. We have to confront it before it's too late.

TODD: Senator Warren?

(CHEERING)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Climate change.

TODD: Yes, Senator Booker?

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): Nuclear proliferation and climate change.

TODD: Secretary Castro?

JULIAN CASTRO, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: China and climate change.

TODD: Congressman Ryan?

REP. TIM RYAN (D-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: China without a question. They're wiping us around the world economically.

TODD: And Mr. Mayor? BILL DE BLASIO, (D), NEW YORK CITY MAYOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:

Russia, because they're trying to undermine our democracy and they've been doing a pretty good job of it, and we need to stop them.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: A lot of, yes, climate change, but also China.

And my team and I were talking earlier, remembering back to the debate in 2012, when you had Mitt Romney up on the stage and he was asked the very same question and he said Russia. He was panned. He was criticized for it. Really, he was quite prescient.

To hear China last night, says what to you?

ZAKARIA: It says to me the Democrats are going for the easy answer, which is in some ways pandering frankly. Everybody thinks China has been a trade cheat. I've written about that a lot.

But China is not really a threat in the way that people think of. The first answer was China and nuclear weapons.

Let's keep in mind the United States has 6,000 warheads. Do you know how many China, the second richest in the world has? Two hundred and sixty. So 6,800 to 260. They're not trying to build a kind of military capacity to threaten the United States. We have 11 aircraft carriers, they have one. China is an economic competitor, but that's very different.

And I think it's important for us to understand we can't use 20th century categories for 21st century problems.

And to me, the Democrats -- it felt like the Democrats were going for easy answers.

Climate change is the politically correct thing to say. All of them said it's such an existential threat. What are you going to do about it. If it really is an existential threat, the survival of the planet, how come you're not willing to talk about a one-cent gas tax or whatever it would take to actually do something to combat it?

[14:40:10] Again, China is an easy one. People generally feel like China has been an unfair competitor.

But there's a great danger in the Chinese case where we create a self- fulfilling prophecy. This is 1.4 billion people, the second richest country in the world. Do we really want to end up in a world where these two countries are at loggerheads with each other all over the world on every issue?

BALDWIN: Sure.

Fareed, thank you very much.

Watch Fareed Sunday mornings at 10:00 a.m. here.

Thank you very much, as always.

The ratings are in, by the way. They are much better than expected. How many people -- how many of you did Democrats reach with their 2020 message last night and who?

And a new twist in the public feud between the U.S. women's soccer team and the president of the United States just a day before their next World Cup match, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:45:35] BALDWIN: The ratings are in for last night's debate. They are much higher than many were expecting. The big number, 15 million viewers tuning in.

Brian Stelter is our CNN chief media correspondent and host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES."

And 15 million is a much bigger number than people were anticipating.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, "RELIABLE SOURCES": Oh, yes.

BALDWIN: Put it into context for me from this time four years ago to now.

STELTER: Typically, a Democratic debate, in a normal news cycle, we will be expecting 10 million viewers. NBC was hoping for 10 million last night. And 15 million blows the roof off the expectations.

Of course, this was on three networks, NBC, ABC, Telemundo. So they were able to gain more viewers that way.

But what this shows, Brooke, is intense interest in the Democratic rate.

BALDWIN: Yes.

STELTER: Really early. Look at this chart for the record. These are all the record debates of the Democratic Party in history. You can see there was one higher, slightly. CNN's first debate of the 2016 cycle. It was Hillary Clinton/Bernie Sanders. It had slightly more viewers than the debate last night. After you get past that debate, you can see 10 million is pretty normal. Sometimes a lot lower than that.

We're seeing a super-charged amount of interest and enthusiasm for the Democratic primary process very early on. That's great news for the candidates on stage last night. May not be great news for Donald Trump.

But there's one caveat here, Brooke, and that is one thing about Democrat debates.

BALDWIN: Yes.

STELTER: When I think back to 2015, the very first GOP debate with Donald Trump on stage, that had 24 million viewers. The bar has been set by Trump. The Democrats are not meeting that highwater mark. But for the Democratic Party, for the candidate, this is good news for them. They're reaching a big audience early one.

You got to think that tonight's debate would be a higher rate.

BALDWIN: Yes.

STELTER: Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, you would expect that to be bigger.

BALDWIN: Exactly. Exactly. I know you'll be watching the numbers. We'll talk tomorrow.

Brain Stelter --

STELTER: Thanks.

BALDWIN: -- thank you very much.

Meantime, the U.S. women's soccer star who says she would not go to the "F"ing White House is responding again in her back and forth with the president.

Plus, two friends of the author accusing President Trump of rape are speaking out. What E. Jean Carroll shared with them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:52:34] BALDWIN: U.S. women's soccer star, Megan Rapinoe, is not backing down in her war of words in her war of words with President Trump. Rapinoe has said doesn't want to visit the "F"ing White House, which sparked a response from the president. Today, she spoke out again in France at a World Cup news conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGAN RAPINOE, U.S. WOMEN'S SOCCER STAR: I stand by the comments I made about not wanting to go to the White House, with the exception of the expletive. My mom will be very upset about that.

But I think entering with a lot of passion, considering how much time and effort and pride we take in the platform that we have, and using it for good, and for leaving the game and for a better place and, hopefully, the world in a better place.

I don't think I would want to go. And I would encourage my teammates to think hard about lending that platform or having that co-opted by an administration that doesn't feel the same way and doesn't fight for the same things that we fight for.

JILL ELLIS, HEAD COACH, U.S. WOMEN'S NATIONAL SOCCER TEAM: We'll support Megan. She knows that. We know we have each other's backs in there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Amy Bass is the author of "One Goal: A Coach, a Team and a Game that Brought a Divided Town Together." She just wrote the CNN.com opinion piece called "The Real Reason Megan Rapinoe Sets Donald Trump Off."

It's a pleasure to have you on.

AMY BASS, AUTHOR: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: What's the answer to the question? Why does she piss him off so much?

BASS: Because she's outspoken and she got under his skin. And she's not doing what he thinks everyone should do.

She's being a political athlete. He's made clear he doesn't think that athletes should be political. That politics doesn't believe in sports.

She's using the platform she built, as she said again today, and she's using it to state the things she believes in.

Athletes don't stop being who they are when they walk on to the pitch or the track. They have beliefs. They have passions. And she's expressing hers and he doesn't like that.

BALDWIN: You make this point further in your piece about these women are such badasses. Yes, I just said that. They are.

They just can't seem to win. I want to quote you: "They score too much. They didn't score enough. They talk too much. They don't lead. They're holding back. They're too dominant. They don't create enough revenue. They're whining instead of being grateful. And they need to remember that they are role models."

Why do you think that is, and how do we change that?

BASS: I think changing that is a battle that women face every day in this country and in others. The constant balance of not being too much. But being enough within this kind of moment, it's raised on a platform so we get to see. They scored too much against Thailand. Oh, they barely beat Spain. You're whining about your lawsuit. You're representing your country. You're not representing your country.

Women can't win even when they win. And I don't think that's just about soccer. I think that's something to explore, writ large, in terms of American society and across the board.

[14:55:13] BALDWIN: I just love how they're leaning on each other and they have each other's backs in this whole massive, massive fight --

BASS: That's right.

BALDWIN: -- they're in the middle of.

Amy Bass, a pleasure. Thank you.

BASS: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Appreciate it.

We have new details on Joe Biden's strategy tonight in round two of the Democratic debates.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:59:57] BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

A little over two months ago, Joe Biden stepped onto the 2020 stage and declared the next presidential election is about the soul of America.

But tonight, the former vice president has to prove that he's in touch with the soul of the Democratic Party.