Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Louisiana Coast Under Threat Of Deadly Flooding; Monsoons Threaten Rohingya Refugees In Bangladesh; Vatican: Two Graves Exhumed, No Human Remains Found; French Telecom Company on Trial Over Wave of Suicides; Trump Backs Away from Citizenship Question in Census; Sea Level Rise in Miami Divides Rich and Poor; London's Big Ben Clock Tower Turns 160 Years Old. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired July 12, 2019 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:00:00] NATALIE ALLEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and thank you for joining us I'm Natalie Allen at CNN Center in Atlanta and you're watching CNN NEWSROOM. Ahead this hour New Orleans faces its next big test, a city already struggling against floodwaters is about to be hit by a powerful tropical storm.

Plus, the world's biggest refugee camp become even more miserable. Monsoon floods sweep through Bangladesh forcing thousands of Rohingya refugees out of their homes yet again. And Donald Trump backs down from his threat to ask people living in the U.S. about their citizenship but not his government's plan to round up undocumented immigrants.

Our top story, the U.S. National Hurricane Center warns that tropical storm Barry could bring a life-threatening storm surge along the Louisiana coast. The state's governor has declared a state of emergency and has mobilized the National Guard. Whether or not Barry becomes a hurricane, it will bring a huge amount of water. Conor Powell shows us how the Orleans is preparing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CONOR POWELL, FREELANCE JOURNALIST: Store shelves emptied and sandbags filled as people get ready for Barry.

LATOYA CANTRELL (D), MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS: Head every single warning. We're going to get heavy rainfall for up to 48 hours it could be.

POWELL: Barry currently a tropical storm is predicted to become a Category One hurricane before it makes landfall. On Saturday, the slow-moving storm is expected to bring heavy rainfall, flash flooding, and storm surge.

BENJAMIN SCHOTT, METEOROLOGIST, NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE: The number one threat is going to be water. It's going to be the flooding and the heavy rainfall.

POWELL: A state of emergency has been declared in Louisiana with mandatory evacuations ordered for low-lying parts of the state. Flood gates have started to close to lower the risk of flooding. The amount of water expected from this storm is a huge concern for state officials.

GOV. JOHN BEL EDWARDS (D), LOUISIANA: The National Weather Service, they're using terms like life-threatening floods.

POWELL: Parts of New Orleans already experienced flooding this week.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a car out in front of a house that basically got fully submerged.

POWELL: And the Mississippi River is forecast to crest Saturday at levels not seen in almost 70 years.

EDWARDS: This will be the first time that we've had a hurricane make landfall in Louisiana while the Mississippi River was at flood stage.

POWELL: In New Orleans, I'm Conor Powell.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: Joining us now Storm Chaser Reed Timmer is in New Orleans. He is an Extreme Meteorologist with the AccuWeather Network. Reed, thanks so much for joining us because this is a big test for New Orleans and it's levee systems. And we know as we just heard, this Mississippi River is already extremely high from all of the flooding in the Midwest the past few months.

REED TIMMER, EXTREME METEOROLOGIST ACCUWEATHER NETWORK: That's right. All that rainfall that's been happening upstream has been slowly making its way down the Mississippi River. Some of those gauges are showing water levels above 45 feet upstream at Baton Rouge. It's hardly about 16 feet here in New Orleans and that's way above normal.

Normally the Mississippi River is running at its lowest point this time of year but that is certainly not the case right now and that is a very scary thing with tropical storm Barry just looming offshore and gradually intensifying as it approaches the coast, and it is taking a worst-case track as well to the southwest of New Orleans. That will pile up that water into the mouth of the Mississippi River.

And the forecast crest looks to be above right -- or very close to 20 feet on Saturday as that storm passes just to the south and those levees are built to handle water up to exactly 20 feet. So anything over that will be squashing over the top of those levees and contributing to substantial, potentially life-threatening flooding.

ALLEN: That is got to be extremely unsettling to a city that has of course been through so much with the disaster of Katrina. Even the governor addressed what this city could face. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARDS: There are three ways Louisiana floods, storm surge, high rivers, and rain. We're going to have all three.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: Yes. And Reed, as far as Louisiana, we know that below New Orleans, these wetlands, much of them have disappeared due to dredging and erosion and usually they are a protector for the cities and the people south of New Orleans.

TIMMER: That's right. In this case, those marshlands are going to be underwater completely, and that's why it's so important to heed those evacuation warnings because with the storm passing just to the south, it's going to be all three defensive types of flooding. There's going to be river flooding. There's going to be over 20 inches of rain falling. There's also going to be that storm surge.

So those persistent easterly winds piling up that water and those marshlands to the south and to the southwest of New Orleans are certainly going to be underwater when this storm approaches on Saturday. It looks like it's going to make landfall now on early Saturday morning right near that threshold of a Category One hurricane.

The latest forecast by the National Hurricane Center even though it does show a strong tropical storm coming in, they do mention that it likely will peak right near a minimal hurricane status. But you don't want to get too bogged down with those specifics whether it comes in as a tropical storm or whether it comes in as the hurricane because those impacts will be life-threatening and those impacts will mainly be hydrological as with the life-threatening flooding.

And as the governor mentioned, it will be all three facets, the river flooding, the storm surge, and the flash flooding in these low-lying areas. It's just going to be really dangerous here through the weekend with this slow-moving storm.

[01:05:58] ALLEN: And as far as the people of New Orleans and what they're being told to do apparently as far as evacuations, well, here's the mayor on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CANTRELL: We are not issuing a voluntary or mandatory evacuation. These things are not in place for us at this time. Therefore, sheltering in place is our strategy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: You know, that that seems to me a little bit unsettling telling people to just stay put and wait and see what happens. What do you think?

TIMMER: Well, I think it is important to head the warnings from the experts on this. But yes, I agree with you. It certainly is unsettling to hear that especially after what happened so many years ago with Hurricane Katrina in 2005.

This certainly is not going to be a Hurricane Katrina but there will be life-threatening flooding out there. There will be a very complex narrow unfolding with those three facets of the flooding but of those evacuation warning -- evacuation order, certainly could change also as the storm evolved.

But looking there at the French Quarter and on Bourbon Street, there are people out there partying right now and that is always scary when you're ahead of such a dangerous storm like this that's going to dump so much rain and you just know that these low-lying they're going to be under life-threatening flood.

ALLEN: Yes, New Orleans is a party city but yes, those parties may get cut short this weekend. All right, thanks so much, Reed Timmer. We know you'll be there covering it. We appreciate you joining us.

Now we turn to our Meteorologist Derek Van Dam. He is a force cracking this thing. You know, we heard Reed say you know, these levees, they're so important, but this river already at such a high stage and that is menacing, Derek, to say the least.

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, without a doubt, Natalie. We're in uncharted territory quite frankly. We've never had a tropical system move towards the mouth of the Mississippi River when the Mississippi River is at or near flood stage. And that floodwater is trying to exit that particular region.

Here's the latest on the National Hurricane Center. 85 kilometers per hour sustained winds near the center, not a huge organization to the storm just yet but it is starting to develop and it is starting to strengthen minute-by-minute, hour-by-hour.

And as Reed was talking about, the storm expected to make landfall overnight into Friday -- overnight Friday into early Saturday morning right along the southern portions of Louisiana. That will be south and west of New Orleans. That puts New Orleans in a very precarious position because it'll be on that northeastern quadrant of the storm.

The National Hurricane Center has upgraded its warnings. We have hurricane warnings where you see that shading of red tropical storm warnings including New Orleans and the Lake Pontchartrain Region with tropical storm watches for the Biloxi area.

The threats here are wide-ranging, storm surge, we also know that the flash flood threat is very high from Saturday into Sunday especially where you see that shading of pink. Over 500 millimeters of rainfall in the next five days, that's a serious amount of water in an already saturated environment.

Now, when we talk about the storm surge threat, you can see the warnings and the watches that are in place. But when we talk particularly about New Orleans, we know that New Orleans levee system was upgraded after the disastrous effects that took place after Hurricane Katrina in 2005 and those levees have been tested.

We had Hurricane Isaac that came through, it held up admirably. But this may be the Achilles heel for New Orleans. We have a flooded Mississippi River and we have a tropical storm entering the region at the exact same time. Never in history has that happened. So with a two to four-foot storm surge forecast, this could overtop

some of the levees in the region. That could bring in some of the storm surge up the Mississippi River, eventually forcing it towards the New Orleans region.

And remember, New Orleans sits in a bowl. Much of the city is actually below sea level. So if some of those levees are overtopped, we could have disastrous effects. And the reason we bring this up, this is the most important point here.

We have noted that the potential for storm surge and an already flooded river could bring our forecast crust to 19 perhaps up to 20 feet. And we have noted and plotted all the areas along the Mississippi River just downstream from New Orleans, you can see them plotted here, those levees, Natalie, are below 20 feet.

So we could as Reed talked about, see some of that overtopping within these locations, and that will put New Orleans in a very susceptible position.

ALLEN: All right, we'll be watching it very closely. Thank you so much, Derek. Well, monsoon rains in Bangladesh are hitting a vulnerable population full force. Thousands of Rohingya Muslim refugees from Myanmar living in camps have lost their makeshift homes because of floods and landslides over the past few days.

UNICEF says two young boys drowned and eight groups including the World Food Programme are working as quickly as they can to help people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEMMA SNOWDON, COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER, WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME: There are few days of heavy rains in the Rohingya refugee camps here in Cox's Bazar and the situation is serious. Thousands of people have been displaced and thousands more have damage to their homes.

The WFP is well prepared for incidents like this and we prepare all year round for it. For example, we have emergency food supplies pre- positioned around the camp so that we can respond quickly when needed. And in this instance, we were able to get emergency food supplies to people within the space of 12 hours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: Photographer Thomas Nybo has been about six months in these camps over the past year on assignment for UNICEF and he just returned from Bangladesh on Wednesday and joins me now. Thomas, good to see you.

THOMAS NYBO, PHOTOGRAPHER, UNICEF: Thank you.

ALLEN: Seeing the resilience of these people, seeing the smiles on children's faces, that's the hopeful part there but you've worked in more than 100 places in this world and seen some really bad things, where do you put this? NYBO: I put it at the top for many reasons. I arrived three weeks ago in the camp and at first, it appeared like things were under control. They actually built drainage systems. They prepared as best they could for the monsoon season. But then by three, four days of rain, everything had changed.

Mike Tyson said, everyone has got a plan until you're punched in the face. And the Rohingya just got punched in the face. So when you have flooding, not only do you have these flimsy houses that are flooding, but you have fresh water sources are flooding, toilets are flooding.

So all of a sudden even you have a boy you know, crossing a stream, he might get sick. It affects everything.

ALLEN: I can imagine. Let's look through your photos right now. I think this first one is extremely powerful. It's a woman and what happened to her and her baby is just unconscionable.

NYBO: Isha is now 20. Isha is not her real name. So a year and a half ago, she was coming across with her three children and her husband. Soldiers grabbed her seven-year-old son, threw him in the air, killed him viciously with a machete, then they beat her and gang- raped her. If you look closely, you can see a scar from a rifle but on her forehead.

When I met her, it was two months after the attacks. Her eyes were red from burst blood vessels. Her eyes were black underneath, and this was months later. She was very angry. I caught up with her and spent a lot of time with her over the past couple weeks and there was joy in her life. She'd been attending a UNICEF counseling session and able to connect with other girls.

And she said she was trying to forget what happened to her but she still wants justice. And she was also terribly afraid because they live on the side of a hill like so many Rohingya and water was seeping in on the floor and she was -- she was afraid.

ALLEN: Well, again, you know, it's just you hope for these people so much but they are enduring so much. Now we have a photograph he took of a father, a teenage father whose home is collapsing in that mud.

NYBO: 19-year-old Abdul. He lives there with his two children, his elderly father, and his wife, and the entire hill collapsed into his house filling it with mud. And he's been working non-stop trying to shovel it out. And I asked him, you know, what do you need. And he said, you know what I need, I need a wall, a proper wall because I don't even have the money to buy the plastic to fix this. So what am I supposed to tell my children? How am I going to be safe?

ALLEN: Right. Next, a boy is crossing the river swollen from days of monsoon rains. And he actually goes into the river and he is swimming. Why is he in there?

NYBO: Everybody was telling me the same thing. We don't have cash. They get rice, they get dal to eat. But if you want vegetables, if you want fish, you need to get money by any means necessary. For a lot of kids like this boy with the umbrella, it's collecting plastic to sell to the recyclers.

So when floods hit the hills, they fill the streams and rivers with plastics. Even though the boys, the children don't know how to swim, they'll go out there as best they can just to get plastics to sell to help feed their families.

ALLEN: Right. That shows you how the children, it's all in for survival here. In our next picture mirrors that as well. A girl taking care of her father, he's behind her in this photograph. His leg was shot off by a soldier in Myanmar.

[01:15:10] NYBO: That's true. And his other leg, his good leg, is now atrophied. And so, he's stuck in their house, and they live on the edge of a dirt cliff, and he has a wheelchair, but it takes four men putting him in a bamboo sling, just to get him out to a proper way, hundreds of meters away.

So, she goes to a UNICEF support at school when she can, but a lot of the time, she's the only one who can look after her father. And so, she is -- the stereotypical story of a caregiver who might actually die before her father because she's constantly stressed out and worrying herself sick.

ALLEN: And one mother said, we can't cook anything because the stove is damaged, we don't have food to eat now, we can't give anything to our children, and they can't drink the water or go outside because of the floods. Everyone has suffered in this crisis, Thomas, children to the elderly.

And 60,000 children now cannot get educated, and you have a picture, though, of one boy determined to learn English on his own.

NYBO: I love this story. I was walking through the camps through heavy mud, and I heard this boy, reading Basic English, a story about a picnic at the park. And I was drawn to it, and I tracked him down, and he was teaching himself English, also going to a local English tutor.

And all he wanted to do was learn English. He was too old, 18, for some of the schools, so he was teaching himself. My colleagues and I, some of us, we got together three new books for him. We got him a book called Hunger, a classic, the Alchemist, and then a more advanced English textbook.

And when I handed him these books, it was like I gave him the keys to a helicopter. I mean, he literally left, and went and put on his best shirt and pose for a picture with the books.

ALLEN: My goodness. The Alchemist, that's a good one. That was a good choice, I think. Yes, and the first story he was reading was called A Picnic in the Park, you know, and look what they're dealing with. How much more suffering, though, do you think these people can take? You know, we know UNICEF is pleading for more funding, but it's not there. NYBO: My hats off to Bangladesh for housing over 900,000 Rohingya. The challenge is, there's a lot to talk about what's next for them. There's talk about repatriation to Myanmar, but the question really needs to be presented to the Rohingya. I think before any decisions are made -- because everyone's coming to the conclusion, this is where they belong.

Well, how do the Rohingya feel about that? When I talked to the Rohingya, they want justice, they want protection, they want citizenship, and I think, until those things were given, nobody can make plans for where they're going to live their lives. It's a basic right and they deserve, at least, that much.

ALLEN: And, meantime, they are stuck. And now, they are stuck in this horrible situation. Well, your pictures helped tell the story as tough as it is, it's important for the world to see, so important. Thomas Nybo, thank you so much.

NYBO: Thank you, Natalie.

ALLEN: Thanks for coming in.

Ahead here, hoping to crack a decades-old cold case, Vatican officials opened two tombs, but what they discovered has left them with even more questions. Plus, former executives at a French Telecom company face jail time, a decade after more than one dozen employees killed themselves. We'll explain that next here, on CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALLEN: The U.S. singer, R. Kelly has been arrested again in Chicago. A source tell CNN, the 52-year-old is facing 13 new charges, including sex trafficking in New York, attempting to influence a pending case in Atlanta and child pornography. The singer already faces 21 charges, including sexual assault and sexual abuse. Kelly has denied any allegations of sexual misconduct.

About three dozen people on an Air Canada jet were injured Thursday, when their plane was rocked by sudden, severe, and unexpected turbulence. Passengers on the flight from Vancouver to Sydney, Australia screamed as they were tossed around the cabin like play things.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just seemed like the plane just sank and then flew up (INAUDIBLE) and I wasn't sure if they had their seat belts on (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) girl hit the (INAUDIBLE) overhead and actually snapped and broke it. And the oxygen masks went down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had turbulence and we all hit the roof and everything fell down and stuff. People went flying. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: Two hundred and eighty-four people were on that plane, the jet diverted to Honolulu Hawaii, where passengers could get medical check- ups.

The family of a teenager, who vanished, 36 years ago, was hoping for answers after information led them to tombs on the grounds of the Vatican. But after they were opened, even more questions are being raised. CNN's Delia Gallagher is in Rome.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: A mysterious tipoff has led investigators to a cemetery inside the Vatican, to search for the remains of a 15-year-old girl, Emanuela Orlandi, who disappeared in 1983 in one of Italy's most notorious unsolved crimes.

Look where the angel indicates was the anonymous tip sent to Emanuela's family last summer, which brought investigators to these two tombs under the statue of an angel, holding a sign, rest in peace.

Emanuela was a daughter of a Vatican employee who lived with her family inside the Vatican, and vanished after a music lesson on June 22nd, 1983. Her brother, Pietro, has devoted his life to try to find her and understand who would've wanted to abduct her and why.

There have been many hypotheses throughout the years, he says, from mafia extortion to sexual exploitation. He says that by agreeing to open up these tombs, the Vatican is finally admitting after 36 years that someone inside may have been involved.

But when workers pulled back the heavy marble slabs of the tombs, a surprise was in store, there was nothing inside. Not the remains of Emanuela, not even the remains of the two German princesses that were said to be buried there.

The Vatican says they will now examine documentation of construction work that took place at the cemetery in the 1800s, and again, in the 60s and 70s that may have resulted in the relocation of the princesses' remains.

Emanuela's brother says he is relieved, but now, has even more questions.

PIETRO ORLANDI, BROTHER OF TEEN WHO WENT MISSING IN 1983 (through translator): I thought that today, we could finally make a step forward, even if painful. Instead, we are at a starting point, but we do have now the Vatican cooperation. And I hope we will keep on being concrete.

GALLAGHER: A day that was supposed to bring answers for the family of a missing 15-year-old girl, as now turned up two empty tombs and only deepen the mystery at the Vatican. Delia Gallagher, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ALLEN: In Berlin, German chancellor, Angela Merkel, made an unusual move one day after she was seen shaking in public for the third time. At a ceremony with Denmark's prime minister, the chancellor sat down during the country's national anthems.

[01:25:11] It was a change of protocol apparently done, to prevent more shaking. Afterward, Mrs. Merkel insisted she was taking care of her health.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA MERKEL, CHANCELLOR OF GERMANY (through translator): You can be sure that firstly, I'm aware of the responsibilities that come with my office. And that I behave appropriately as far as my health is concerned. And secondly, you can also know that as a person, I have a keen interest in being healthy and I take care of my health.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: This comes one day -- you can see her here, after the chancellor suffered her third shaking incident in the past month. On Wednesday, she was seen trembling as she stood next to Finland's prime minister.

A landmark trial on workplace harassment has just ended. The French telecom company, Orange, and its former executives are accused of creating a toxic work culture that resulted in a wave of suicides, one decade ago. CNN's Melissa Bell has that report from Paris.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The anger of the union goes back a decade, when a wave of suicides hit France telecom. The union say they blamed ruthless management methods aimed at shedding 22,000 jobs when France Telecom went private and became Orange.

Top executives including the CEO at the time, Didier Lombard, were on trial for moral harassment. His lawyer told the court his client was innocent and was being accused of moral harassment against people he'd never even met.

The labor union that represents Orange workers said that 19 workers had committed suicide between 2007 and 2010. Another 12 employees attempted suicide during the same period, several, at work.

One former employee told us of some of the examples given in court.

VINCENT TALAOUIT, VICTIM OF FRANCE TELECOM: One person was a technician. He was an expert in his field. He loved his company. He stabbed his bell during the meeting because every week, week after week, he's been said, your job is no more perpetuated, no have no more job in the service. Find another job, maybe mobility at 300 miles away from home, so he stabbed himself.

BELL: Samira Guerrouj says she still works for the company, attempted to throw herself under a train in 2010, driven to despair, she says, by corporate bullying.

SAMIRA GUERROUJ, VICTIM, FRANCE TELECOM: Told to my manager, please give me the work, give me the work. I can't stay like this. (INAUDIBLE) They destroyed everybody. They destroyed everything, everything, for what? Tell me, for what? They're going to make plan only to make a profit (INAUDIBLE) that's it. No, it's not logic. It's not normal (INAUDIBLE)

BELL: We reached out to Orange for a comment and the company referred back to its original statement in which it had denied any wrongdoing and vowed to defend itself in court. Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: Next here on CNN NEWSROOM, President Trump says he's not backing down, but he is backing away from citizenship question on the census.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:31:10] NATALIE ALLEN, CNN HOST: You're watching CNN newsroom live from CNN Center Atlanta. We appreciate you joining us.

I'm Natalie Allen with our headlines.

We are learning that British tankers in the Strait of Hormuz were reportedly put under the highest level of security one day before Iranian gun boats allegedly tried to intercept the British tanker. British media report the U.K. raised the threat level of the region to critical on Tuesday. Iran denied it was involved in the confrontation.

Sudan's provisional military council says it has thwarted an attempted coup. The state news agency reports it was meant to obstruct the power sharing agreement between the military council and the opposition. The council says it arrested 12 people including the alleged coup leader.

Monsoon rains are causing extensive damage for Rohingya Muslim refugee camps in Bangladesh. Thousands of families have been displaced after landslides destroyed their makeshift homes. UNICEF says at least two children have drowned. There is more rain in the forecast.

Two weeks ago, the U.S. Supreme Court blocked President Trump from adding a question on citizenship to the 2020 census. Thursday in Washington, the President said he would get the information anyway. He's issuing an executive order requiring government agencies to turn over data on citizens and non citizens to the Commerce Department.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: With today's executive order which eliminates long-standing obstacles to data sharing, we're aiming to count everyone. Ultimately this will allow us to have an even more complete count of citizens than through asking the single question alone. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: But for thousands of migrant families it is not about data, it is about safety and livelihood especially as deportation raids are planned to begin Sunday in at least ten major U.S. cities, excuse me, targeting 2,000 migrant families who already have court orders to be removed from the U.S.

Let's talk about all these developments. Joining us from Los Angeles Ron Brownstein, CNN senior political analyst and senior editor of "The Atlantic; and David Katz criminal defense attorney and former assistant U.S. attorney.

Gentlemen -- thank you both for joining us. Good to see you.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ATTORNEY: Yes.

ALLEN: Hello.

DAVID KATZ, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY: Thank you.

ALLEN: Well, first to you David -- from a legal stand point, why did President Trump change courts here to choose a new tactic text six seeing federal records on citizenship.

KATZ: Well, President Trump lost in the United States Supreme Court and we have a rule of law that a President has to abide by the rulings of the courts just like anyone else.

There's a third branch of government. The Republican chief justice wrote the decision for the majority that said that the reasons that had been given through the litigation were contrived. And so President Trump lost, he had to lose after two weeks of maneuvering to try to evade and maybe defy the U.S. Supreme Court.

and it was a very strange thing because I am a student of history, it was like watching Lee surrender in the civil war, there was General Barr saying, no we actually won the war, and it was just a fig leaf to cover what was the inevitable result once the United States Supreme Court ruled against the President.

And when he said he's going to do now is something that the Commerce Department has actually been doing, that was the position of the plaintiffs in challenging what President Trump was doing, that the Commerce Department ought to do exactly what they are doing now, which is to collect information, and if it's lawful, and if it can be disclosed, it will be sent over to the Commerce Department.

[01:34:57] But the good thing to know is that people are going to get this form now without the citizenship question on it and everybody who receives it should cooperate with the census, this is how the population is allocated for representation, and it is also how people get the funds back

Everybody pays in federal taxes, especially here in California. We want to get the funds back. That's the purpose of the census, to count the whole number of people, not to count voters. Not to count citizens, to count the whole number of people, it's right in the 14th amendment to of the U.S. constitution.

ALLEN: Yes. So Ron, this issue is critical to the President because why? Does it have to do with political boundaries? with elections? Explain it.

BROWNSTEIN: Well look, I think there are multiple reasons why they're interested in this question. Conservatives I think clearly saw adding the question is a way to discourage Hispanics from responding to the census, which would've had an effect of shifting, not only, as David said, not only political representation, but also dollars away from the diverse metro areas that are becoming more and more Democratic.

Hillary Clinton won 87 seven of the 100 largest counties in America toward less diverse, less urban places that are more Republican.

So by not having the question on the census, they lose that value of trying to suppress the counting of Hispanics. but there is another reason they're doing this. There is a longer game in here, too that the President alluded to today.

And it s a goal of many conservatives to shift the way our Congressional and state legislative districts are drawn from total population to basically the eligible voting population. And for that, you need data on citizenship.

If you did that, if you shifted he allocation of seats within states that way, you would again, shift political power away from the diverse metro areas toward more white, more Republican, nonmetro areas.

And the President clearly has not given up on that goal. He is hoping I think that that citizenship data that they can acquire from other agencies would allow states to do this after 2020 -- after the reapportionment in 2020.

Natalie it is entirely possible that a variant on this easy is heeding right are heading way because it is never ruled definitively on whether states can allocate their legislative and congressional voters rather than the total population.

WHITFIELD: Oh my goodness. A variant that would take it back this Supreme Court. David -- what do you think about that.

KATZ: It may go back to the Supreme Court, I'm not sure exactly who's going to challenge it or how it's going to happen, but you know, I think that Trump tried to sort of shield the blow of, you know, losing. I mean he lost with a whimper, not with a bang, which is not his normal way of trying to lose.

But he's trying to make the best of this terrible situation that he's gotten himself into. And I'm not sure how much, as Ron says, they'll certainly try. But you know, after the civil war, when they passed the 14th amendment, people all said, well the representation is going to change of all these districts. And actually the representation didn't change that much through out the United States because people were very zealous to stave their own congressional seat, and to make sure that there really wasn't that much a re-apportionment.

But certainly the money, that's a big issue, and of course the senate, there's only two senators from even these very small, and they turn out to be very large, white, majority states so they always have that political power that there's a very small number of people in these Republican states that still control the senate because it's two senators, four senators for the Dakotas, two for all of California, and that's a system that we have.

BROWNSTEIN: Natalie, I'll just add real quick, that the data that he is talking about collecting as real quick, the data that he is talking about collecting as of today. And he explicitly invited states to change the way that they allocate districts, to eligible voters, which would have the effect of again shifting power away from urban centers towards a kind of mar3 white more white more Republican constituencies, the data more white, more Republican constituencies.

The data that you need to do that would do that would not be available until early 2021, so this will be among the many things that will be on the ballot in 2020 because if a Democrat wins, you can bet that they will call off this effort to provide citizenship data that could be used in this purpose.

ALLEN: Yes. Meantime, on another front, the administration ron is set to begin deportations raids in major cities this weekend, how might that play out? Who are they seeking?

BROWNSTEIN: Well they're seeking people who have failed to respond to court b5:orders, immigration court orders, to show up for their asylum removal process. And it's something that I think is at a time when they are dealing with an enormous overcrowding's, as you've been covering on the border, they can do very much on this front. They simply don't have the capacity to house and detain a large number of people.

[01:39:56] So to some extent, this is a symbolic gesture, symbolic both to his base, like the wall and everything else that he is doing everything possible to combat immigration and I believe more broadly combat the increasing diversification of America, the growing demographic change.

But also symbolically to the immigrant community, and in some ways it sends a message of intimidation, similar to what was intended by all evidence with the citizenship question on the census.

ALLEN: Right. And David -- I want to ask you.

How far can iCE go with these raids? Does the agency have jurisdiction say if they knock on the door, no one opens it, to force their way in?

KATZ: Well, this is great because Speaker Pelosi actually gave legal advice to the country and I think it was a very germane that she did so, this is what immigration attorneys had been advising immigrants for quite a while.

That these ice deportation warrants are not like you are normal arrest warrant or search warrant, normally if they have an arrest warrant they can come to your door and if there's reason to believe that the person is home, you know, the car's there or they saw the person entering the house an hour before.

They can make the arrest: But under this circumstance they can't enter a person's home, so it's very important for your viewers and listeners to understand that if they are in that situation, they don't need to open the door, they don't need to come out, they should not consent if they are rousted out anyway.

They have a right under the constitution even a person who is an illegal immigrant, an undocumented person within the United States, has constitutional rights, which is to not speak if the agent says to them, where were you born? How long have you been there? What's your status?

They have a right to say I refused to answer or I want an attorney. So the raids are not going to be that important as Ron says, they do have collateral consequences. There may be mixed families, there may be someone whose legally here, not legally here, and of course if they take into detention both the husband and wife, then there's the kid, the kids could end up at least temporarily in foster care, we can have more separations.

This is going to be disastrous to the people, to the people who are going to be affected, and as Ron says, it's basically symbolic. It's of a piece with the announcement today with the announcement today which is to scare people who are in the country, particularly Hispanics and to show that he is going down fighting, even though he lost in the Supreme Court trying to intimidate people to answer these questions.

ALLEN: Yes. Ron -- final word from you, on what this may look like this weekend, too. And the reasons behind it.

BROWNSTEIN: One thing to keep in mind is how this underscores the geographic separation of the parties. And I look at this a couple months ago, 90 percent of the congressional districts that have more immigrants than the national average are now held by Democrats. Fewer than one in ten Republicans hold districts with more immigrants in the national average.

They are central and famous through same broad proportions in the Senate, as well in terms of states. So Republicans large are the party now of the parts of America that are least touched by immigration, least touched by demographic change.

An entire variety of ways from the census to immigration raids, to the wall, President Trump in essence is offering himself as kind of a barrier against that demographic change. I mean these are raids a rates that are going to be haven't winning in Democratic cities that overwhelmingly voted against the President, aimed at a constituency that is largely untouched and unaffected and an exposed to immigration.

ALLEN: Well this is the issue that just gets more complicated all the time as we heads toward the election.

Want we appreciate both of you and your expertise on this.

Ron Brownstein, David Katz -- thanks so much.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

KATZ: Thank you.

ALLEN: Next here on CNN NEWSROOM the climate crisis has created a unique problem in Miami and it may be pushing poor people out of areas, while above the rising sea level.

[01:44:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALLEN: A sunken second soviet nuclear submarine that's been on the seafloor for three decades is leaking an abnormally high amount of radiation. But according to the Norway's Institute for Marine Research, the leak does not pose a threat to people or fish. The vessel went down in 1989 after a fire in its engine room. It came to rest south of Norway's Bear Island in the Barents Sea.

That video is remarkable. Scientists say they will continue to monitor it.

There is a new divide between rich and poor in Miami, Florida. As CNN's Bill Weir reports, it's all about the climate crisis and another issue called climate gentrification.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This intersection is nine feet above sea level, this one is seven and that one is six. These numbers are just one reminder that in the age of sea level rise. Elevation is everything.

The plan is to raise the seawall to here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will be about this high.

WEIR: In Ritzy Miami Beach, they're racing streets, changing building codes, --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A water is rising and won't recede.

WEIR: In well-to-do Pine Crest they formed America's first underwater homeowners association. But in working class immigrant neighborhoods like Little Haiti, year to year, sea level rise gets lost in the day to day struggle. They had no idea they were living a lofty three feet higher than their rich neighbors but they figured it out when strangers started calling and buying.

MARLENE EASTEN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FAMILY ACTION NETWORK MOVEMENT. They are being pushed out from their homes, from their businesses.

WEIR: Because high ground is -- valued property now? We

EASTEN: Believe it or not, we didn't know that.

WEIR: Investors from as far away as China began buying land, raising rent. Mom and Pop businesses began to disappear. And after the kids in Marlene's community center had to move three times. She learned the term climate gentrification.

Do you imagine the day where property values were almost flipped where what sed to be the bad side of the railroad track is more valuable because it's high ground as opposed to the beach?

FRANCIS SUAREZ, MAYOR OF MIAMI: I don't imagine it for climatic reasons. I imagine it for other gentrification reasons.

WEIR: Miami's Republican Mayor championed the plan to spend 400 million dollars on the climate crisis. Including funds to keep low income folks from being priced out of safe neighborhoods.

But Marlene says she'll believed it when she sees it. And fought hard to stop a billion dollar development called Magic City in, you guessed it, Little Haiti.

EASTEN: They want to build 25 stories. That would be the end of Little Haiti.

Weir: Right.

EASTEN: That would have been the end --

WEIR: But doesn't it also mean thousands of new jobs for the COMMUNITY?

EASTEN: For who?

WEIR: Not for you. Not for these folks.

EASTEN: hey wouldn't be here to access the jobs because they will all be displaced.

WEIR: But the protests fail. After Magic City promised 31 million to the committee, the mega-project was approved.

The area we took was all industrial. had was all industrial, there was no real thriving economy around these warehouses or land. So our goal is to create the economy.

WEIR: Is sea level rise part of equation?

[01:49:58] In the time that we purchased this property obviously climate change is something that everybody looks at. But it wasn't a factor that we considered when acquiring property.

LEONIE HERRANTIN, COMMUNITY ORGANIZER: The reality is that it's inevitable.

WEIR: Leonie is among the Haitian leaders who believe gentrification is out of control. So they might as well embrace Magic City and hope for the best.

HERRANTIN: We need to be part of the solution. Because if you're not around the table what are you -- the meal. We don't want to be nobody's meal.

WEIR: This puts her at odds with Marlene but they are just a sample of how slow motion disaster is dividing neighbors, how climate is giving new meaning to the old saying, "Real estate is all about location, location and elevation."

Bill Weir, CNN -- Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: A milestone birthday for London's iconic bell tower. Big Ben turns 160 years old. Ahead here, a look at what makes this historic landmark so special.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALLEN: One of London's most iconic landmarks is celebrating a huge birthday. Big Ben, the clock tower looming over the British parliament has just turned 160.

CNN's Nick Glass takes a look inside the building and shows us why it is so historic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK GLASS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The great clock tower to the right is sheaved in scaffolding. For the moment it could pass for a launch pad for a space rocket, without its usual silhouette, it has lost some of its romanticism.

The Gothic revival architecture is under a shroud.

You have to remember what it was like before that river setting so appealed to a young Frenchman called Claude Monet. Monet wasn't so interested in precise dimensions, more in capturing the light.

Of course, we all know it simply by its nickname Big Ben, although strictly speaking, that's the name of the great bell inside what's now officially called the Elizabeth Tower.

Just two years ago, we could still clearly see all the clock faces and hear all the bells. This was the last time that they were properly struck before restoration work began.

Big Ben and its great hammer. A close quarter giving up tremendous ear-jangling reverberations. For 160 years, a time keeper for Londoners and beyond. And perhaps most famously in the Second World War, heard on the BBC world service, a reminder that Britain was fighting on.

A masterpiece of mid-Victorian engineering, cogs and wheels and weights and springs, the great clock of Westminster, the most sophisticated clock of its time, a mechanism driving four clock faces.

[01:54:51] Note the pile of Victorian and Edwardian pennies, whenever the clock gains or loses a second or two, they remove or add a penny to adjust the swing of the pendulum. The mechanism was fixed in placed way back in 1859.

PAUL ROBERSON, CLOCKMASTER, PALACE OF WESTMINSTER: We've never had to hold it all in one go, so we fairly talked to them and (INAUDIBLE) for them and we won't have any major problems when it comes to clock, and we will check it all over and it will go back together.

GLASS: The great clock, 11 tons of it has since been dismantled and removed from sight for servicing.

Up here in the belfry free, all five bells are remaining in situ. The four chiming quarter bells, and the great one-hour bell itself, Big Ben.

The reasons are obvious. Big Ben is nine feet wide and over seven feet high, weighs about the same as a pair of African elephants, some 13 tons.

The most visible part of the restoration so far is on one clock face, the so-called North Dial. Twenty-three feet across, the lattice of cast iron has been blast-cleaned and re-glazed. Some 300 pieces of oakwood colored glass.

The clock faces also reverted to its original color scheme, gold leaf, and a paint of Prussian blue. Nothing much has stopped the clock over the years, the occasional mechanical grumbling, the odd flurry of snow, and on one occasion a flock of roosting starlings, and of course, it's had its dramatic moments in the movies.

The actor Robert Powell hanging on for dear life in the spy thriller "The 39 Steps" in 1978, the minutes hand reached a quarter to 12, the clock tower would've been blown up by dastardly Russian secret agents.

At midday in reality, Big Ben was silent again as it largely has been for the last two years. Restoration should be complete by 2021. So far, everything has been ticking along very nicely thank you, if rather quietly.

Nick Glass, CNN -- with Big Ben.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: Thank you Big Ben -- 160 years. You are watching CNN NEWSROOM.

I'm Natalie Allen, the news continues next with George Howell.

[01:57:14] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)