Return to Transcripts main page


Two Cities Grieving, A Nation Mourning, 29 People Murdered In Mass Shootings; Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) Reacts To The Mass Shootings. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired August 4, 2019 - 22:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: We also remember Saeed Saleh, Derrick Fudge, Logan Turner, Nicholas P. Cumer, Thomas McNichols, Beatrice Warren-Curtis, and Monica Brickhouse -- 29 Lives taken in two places too soon, too many families changed forever.

Our breaking news coverage continues. Don Lemon and CNN TONIGHT starts now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. It's happened again. When will this madness stop? Two cities grieving, a nation mourning, 29 people murdered in mass shootings. A gunman opened fire at a shopping center in El Paso, killing 20 people, injuring two dozen more. Authorities investigating a racist anti- immigrant manifesto that they believe was posted by the shooter just before the massacre.

It is filled with white supremacist language and racist hatred aimed at immigrants and Latinos. And the writer blames immigrants and first generation Americans for taking away jobs. Federal authorities calling the shooting domestic terrorism.


JOHN BASH, U.S. ATTORNEY: We are also treating this as a domestic terrorist case. The statutory definition of domestic terrorism in 18 USC 2331. This meets it. It appears to be designed to intimidate a civilian population to say the least. We are treating it as a domestic terrorism case, and we're going to do what we do to terrorists in this country, which is deliver swift and certain justice.


LEMON: Thirteen hours later, in Dayton, Ohio, in a popular nightlife district, a gunman wearing a mask and body armor opens fire, killing nine people, including his own sister.




[Gunshots] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dude, what the [bleep]? What the [bleep]?



LEMON: Police still searching for a motive. But in an initial search of his family's home, they found writings that show he had an interest in killing people. That is not normal. He acted out on those feelings, and now nine people are dead because of him.

This is what the President said. This is how you reacted to the mass shootings.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to extend our condolences to the people of El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio. They're incredible people. And they've been through a lot.

Hate has no place in our country, and we're going to take care of it.


LEMON: When are we, as a nation, going to stop young men like these from getting powerful firearms? How many innocent people have to die at schools? At churches? In synagogues? Movie theaters? Shopping centers? And the list goes on. Nightclubs, on and on and on.

And when are we going to call out white nationalism for the curse that it is on this country? We're not saying that the Dayton shooting -- the shooting in Dayton was instigated by it because the motive is not yet known. And the shooter is dead.

But El Paso? Maybe. Probably. Either way, we need to fight hate and white nationalism. But we're not getting very far because President Trump won't acknowledge the seriousness, the serious threat that white nationalism poses to the lives of everyday Americans.

Listen to his acting White House Chief of Staff.


JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Why has the President downplayed the threat of white nationalism?

MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I don't think he -- I don't think he has. Go look at what he said yesterday. He condemned this without any reservation whatsoever.

So, I don't think that's fair.

KARL: Well, wait a minute. Can I read the President's words? Because back in March, he was asked directly, "Do you see today white nationalism as a rising threat around the world?" And his answer, "I don't really. I think it's a small group of people that have a very, very serious problem." He downplayed the threat of white nationalism. Was he wrong to do that?

MULVANEY: No, I don't believe that's downplaying it. Look at what he said this. He said this is a small group --

KARL: He said, "I don't really."

MULVANEY: Read the last sentence. I don't have it in front of me. "This is a small group of people," and finish the sentence from the tweet. What did he say?

KARL: I'll read the whole thing again, he was asked directly, "Do you see today white nationalism as a rising threat around the world?" His answer, "I don't really. I think it's a small group of people that have a very, very serious problem."

MULVANEY: These -- that's exactly -- that's exactly -- look, this is not the same as international sort of nuclear weapons.


[22:05:06] LEMON: Moments ago, we heard President Trump say that hate has no place in our country. But why doesn't he take his own words to heart? Stop bashing immigrants and seeming to coddle white supremacists.


TRUMP: They bring in drugs. They bring in crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume are good people.

You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people -- on both sides.

These are rough, rough people in many cases. And if they're allowed to break through our borders, only larger and bigger, we have emboldened these people. It's not going to happen.

Yes, sir. We have barbed wire going up, because you know what? We're not letting these people invade our country.


LEMON: The President even joked about a suggestion of violence against immigrants at a Florida rally.


TRUMP: How do you stop these people? You can't.

That's only in the Panhandle, you can get away with that state.


LEMON: We don't know that the President's rhetoric influenced either of the two mass shooters. But it would go a long way. If he would stop using ugly words to divide people in this country. We know these two young men were filled with some level of hate, if

they were willing to take innocent lives, it must be, right? It must have been. From people shopping on a Saturday or enjoying a weekend night out. And we need to do something about guns. Because these men -- young men -- had access to powerful weapons in each case. It was a deadly combination.

We have live coverage from the scenes of both deadly shootings, extensive coverage as a matter of fact, in depth coverage.

But first to Texas, where we're getting more information about the suspect accused in the mass killing at an El Paso Walmart. Authorities say after the massacre, he returned to his vehicle in the parking lot before surrendering.

Sources tell CNN, the suspect is 21-year-old Patrick Crusius of Allen, Texas. His name is on a hateful racist manifesto, which he posted just 20 minutes before he started shooting.

We're also saying his name and showing his picture one time, just in case anyone watching has any information that would be helpful to law enforcement. We do not want to glorify the misery that he has caused so many people.

Police are in the process of notifying the families of the victims saying they will not release names until families are notified. CNN's Sara Sidner, live for us in El Paso, Texas tonight. Sarah, good evening. I wish I could be talking to you under better circumstances. It is all obviously so heartbreaking right now.

Police have said that there is a manifesto that they think may be linked to this El Paso shooting suspect. What did it tell us about the potential motive?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If this is indeed the El Paso shooter's manifesto, it tells us that he was filled with hate, and he was filled with ultimately fear, fear of immigration, fear of -- as he put it -- being replaced as a white person in this country. Fear of black and brown people particularly fear, as he put it of a Hispanic invasion.

We should also mention that word "invasion." I know you just talked through this a bit. But it is worth mentioning again that that word "invasion" has come into the mouths of these white nationalists, white supremacists and neo Nazis and shooting suspects, mass shooting suspects. It is the same words parroting exactly what the President had called the caravans that were coming from Mexico and heading towards the border and trying to cross the border.

There is no secret that that language keeps being used by different mass shooting suspects who have white nationalist ties or espouse neo Nazi mentality.

We should also mention that within his alleged manifesto, there's a lot of talk of jobs being lost, blamed that on immigration as well. And so this person has sort of decided that his ills or the ills of this country is to put on those who are coming here for a better life.

And he is not just talking about illegal immigration, he is talking about all immigration, a lot of hatred in that manifesto -- Don.

LEMON: Sara Sidner. Sara, thank you very much. Now to Dayton, Ohio, where a gunman opened fire on a crowd of people enjoying a night out. Nine people were killed. The Police Chief says officers responded to the shooting within seconds, killing the gunman.

The suspect is 24-year-old Connor Betts. We're also only saying his name and showing his picture one time just in case anyone has information for law enforcement.

Sources say authorities found writings linked to him that show he had an interest in killing people. CNN's Drew Griffin live for us in Dayton. Drew, good evening to you.

[22:10:10] LEMON: What are you learning about the shooter's past behavior issues?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, but for those writings, the motive here, much less clear. The Police Chief says quite frankly, they just don't have it right now. And when you think of the circumstances here, he drives into the nightclub district with his sister and a companion, both of whom later in the night he shoots killing his sister, injuring that companion.

It's very hard to determine what kind of motive there could be here, but we did start looking into his past back into high school, when he apparently had a list -- a kill list -- as it is being described to us of classmates that he wanted to kill or harm.

Four students who tell us that they were told at the time by school officials they were on that list describe it, Don, as a kill list for boys, a rape list for girls; girls who he apparently made advances to and had those advances rebuffed.

One student told us that in sophomore year, when this shooter was in his sophomore year, he was actually on the same school bus with the shooter, when police came aboard, take a listen to what happened.


SPENCER BRICKLER, KNEW ACCUSED SHOOTER CONNOR BETTS: I saw him get pulled off the bus after school one day. And apparently he had made a kill list. And I happened to be on it. I don't know why.

We just got off of school and we're all getting on the bus to go home. And I mean, I just sat down. Me and my sister just sitting down and he sat down, I think he was behind us. And I look up and there's two police officers standing on the bus, asking him to get off the bus and go with them.

I was confused.

QUESTION: School resource officers or -- BRICKLER: No, actual police officers there. Why did he make the

list? Why? What was happening in his life that made him do it?


GRIFFIN: Don, he apparently was removed from school for about a year, but did come back to school, did graduate, and participated in the band and acting so he seemed to be a changed person when he came back.

What happened between high school and now, of course, that's what the police here in Dayton are trying to find out. -- Don.

LEMON: Drew Griffin. Thank you, Drew. The Director of the F.B.I. ordering field offices around the country to do a new threat assessment. It's all in an effort to try to prevent more deadly mass attacks.

Christopher Wray has named a command group in Washington to oversee the effort. Joining me to discuss now is CNN's Shimon Prokupecz. Shimon, hello to you. What does this new threat assessment involve?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, after these two shootings, and really the three shootings that we've seen in the last week, Don, the F.B.I. Director, has told his staff that he wants them to go out there, go out into the field, and do another assessment, a new threat assessment to see if there are any threats that they're missing.

See if there's anyone that they need to keep an eye on, see if there's anything that they need to be doing that they're not doing to keep this country safe.

And we see the F.B.I. do this in cases involving international terrorism, regular stuff that we call just international terrorism, people who are linked to extremist groups. They are now doing this in this case.

The F.B.I. Director told field agents, "Let's go out there. Let's look at other cases. Perhaps there's something we are missing. We need to take a look at this." He has also stood up a Command Center and he wants them out there looking for any threats that they're missing -- Don.

LEMON: Shimon Procupekz. Shimon, thank you as well. We're still learning about the victims of those horrific shootings. We're going to speak with the aunt and uncle of a young mother who died saving the life of her two-month-old son.


[22:17:12] LEMON: The mass shooting in El Paso, Texas is heartbreaking. One of the victims was 24-year-old Jordan Anchondoh, who died while shielding her two-month-old son.

She was shopping for back to school supplies when she was shot and killed along with her husband, Andre. Joining me now is Jordan's aunt and uncle, Liz Terry and Jesse Jamrowksi.

I'm so sorry for your loss, both of you. Thank you so much for doing this, Liz. I can't even imagine how difficult this must be for your family. Can you please tell us about Jordan and Andre?

LIZ TERRY, AUNT OF ONE OF THE VICTIMS OF EL PASO, TEXAS SHOOTING: Clearly Amazing, amazing people, amazing parents. They love their children, did everything for their children, building a family. They just celebrated their one year wedding anniversary July 30th.

Their oldest daughter's Skylin (ph) had just turned five yesterday, the day that she lost her mother. And they were just amazing people. They light up our lives.

Jordan had an amazing, gorgeous smile, as I'm sure everyone can see now, across all news outlets and social media. Her smile was exactly that. You could look through her eyes and just see the world and hope and her husband was amazing. A provider, a hard worker, building a house for them. Just an amazing, an amazing -- amazing set of parents, an amazing set of human beings.

LEMON: Jesse, how are you and the rest of the family holding up? How you doing now?

JESSE JAMROWSKI, UNCLE OF ONE OF THE VICTIMS IN EL PASO, TEXAS SHOOTING: Words can't describe the pain we're going through, especially with seeing the media and what's going on and disgust of the situation and finding out that two of your family members are unaccounted for, three of your family members aren't accounted for. It's the worst feeling in the world. That's all I could say.

LEMON: Never in a million years would anyone imagine that they would be in this position. I don't know how you guys can even stand up right now. It's just so horrific.

And listen, Ms. Jordan died shielding her two-month-old son from gunfire in the Walmart. She saved his life. Do you think what she did was heroic?

TERRY: Absolutely, I think both of them did. We didn't know and didn't have much of the details. As you know, Andre was just confirmed a couple of hours ago when they started removing the bodies from Walmart.

So our understanding is he shielded his wife and his child and her as a mother, heroic as parents, just the ultimate sacrifice that a parent would pay for it with their life. And it's -- I mean, it's not supposed to happen like that. I'm sorry.

[22:20:27] LEMON: There's no need to apologize. What do you want to say?

TERRY: I'm sorry.

LEMON: No, Liz. You can say whatever you want to say.

TERRY: I just want to say that it's my brother and his wife, they lost their oldest child. We lost the niece.

JAMROWSKI: Andre's parents a son.

TERRY: Andre's parents -- the babies lost their parents. We're devastated. There's a -- there's a face to all this and never in a million years as we know other families like the ones in Ohio yesterday, from the myriads before those that you never imagine when you're watching social media and you're here, you're sounding off on your thoughts and your emotions that your family would be a poster board, that your niece would be a poster board for such a senseless and horrific crime.

And it's just -- it's painful. Because to see my brother and his wife and his daughters, Leta and Ashley lose their sister, the light of their family, the light of our lives, it's -- and I can't even imagine. We've been watching families come in and out of the hospital.

But you can see -- you can see the pain and everybody's eyes, the prayers, the community and I just want to say there's -- you never ever think that you will be a poster board for such a tragedy as a family, and especially them.

LEMON: What do you want to say, Jesse?

JAMROWSKI: I hope love can be shown to the children that were left behind not only by our families, but the rest of the people in this world. And that love can be shown to other victims, other families and to never take for granted the people that are close to you. To take every moment to tell them how much you care about them.

LEMON: We understand that the baby, Paul, was released from the hospital. How is he doing?

JAMROWSKI: Thankfully, he is doing well. He suffered some bruises and a couple of broken fingers and ultimately, the loss of his parents. His health seems to be okay.

TERRY: Children are resilient --

JAMROWSKI: Physically. We hope to help fill a void in his in life that he is going to have later on.

TERRY: Children are resilient and he is showing every sign of it as our Victoria and Skylin (ph), both and we're just -- we are thankful.

LEMON: I was going to ask if Jordan has two other children.


LEMON: Tell us about them, Liz, and do they understand what happened?

TERRY: Skylin (ph) is asking for his for her mama. She turned five yesterday, the day of the tragedy.

JAMROWSKI: She is asking her father. TERRY: For her father, for Andre and for Jordan in her little mind

trying to register. She has seen the family come in and out. We're trying to hold the strongest faces that we can hold ourselves together.

Victoria is with her grandparents. So, we haven't had a chance to see her but from what we understand she is -- she is too. They are resilient. Their children are resilient, and we will remind them of their parents. But now, no direct questions yet. But I'm sure we'll be facing those as the days approach. And we will try to find the words because obviously they were at Walmart, school supplies shopping, and those questions I'm sure will be arising very soon.

LEMON: Well, listen, you two are very strong, and we appreciate you coming on and honoring your loved ones by telling us their story and what kind of great people they were and are -- and so we appreciate you. America is standing with you right now, and our hearts are breaking, but we can't imagine what you're dealing with.

And I just -- again, thank you and we hold you up in our thoughts and just thank you, and you guys will smile again.

TERRY: Thank you. Well, I do want to say -- I do want to send our condolences to the victims in Ohio as well that we know are going through this and a huge thank you to the El Paso community, to the first responders, to our Christian brothers and sisters, to people that have just stepped up around the community to offer support.

We could never say thank you enough and we felt every bit of it. It's what gives us the strength to stand here today and tell the story.

LEMON: Liz, Jesse. Thank you.

TERRY: Thank you, Don.

JAMROWSKI: Thank you.

LEMON: We'll be right back.


[22:28:41] LEMON: We're continuing to follow breaking news out of El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio, where 29 people were killed in two separate mass shootings.

Joining me now is presidential candidate and Democratic senator from Massachusetts, Senator Elizabeth Warren. Thank you again, for joining us. We appreciate that.

Again, here we are talking about at the horror of mass shooting, Senator. Two American cities reeling tonight. There's a sense of shock in this country. More than two dozen people are dead. And I know you have a lot of thoughts to share.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do and if you know you think about the sorrow that's just mounting in this country. Every one of those people who died is somebody's sister, somebody's brother, somebody's child, somebody's parent, our friends, our neighbors and all the people who were wounded.

And it's just -- it is happening over and over, and it's not just the mass shootings. You know, we talk about the mass shootings, they get the big headlines. We do the special news around them. But it's happening every single day.

It happens in neighborhoods, it happens on sidewalks, it happens on playgrounds, it happens in backyards that our children are at risk. It happens in communities of color and it doesn't get headlines.

But our children are dying. Our friends are dying. Our families are dying. And Americans want to see real change.


[22:30:03] WARREN: The overwhelming majority of Americans want to see sensible gun legislation including gun owners. So why doesn't it happen?

It doesn't happen because the gun manufacturers through the N.R.A. are calling all the shots in Washington. This is one more example of the wealthy and the well-connected, those who can hire armies of lobbyists and lawyers. They get what they want, and nothing works for anyone else.

You know, this is why I'm running for President. It's to fight back against this kind of corruption and to make this government work, not just for those who have money and connections, make it work for everyone and keep our kids safe.

LEMON: Senator, I am going to you more in a little bit about what lawmakers should be doing. But I just want to get -- I want to play this for you. This is the President's statements earlier as he was leaving his golf club in New Jersey to return to Washington. Watch this.


TRUMP: Hate has no place in our country, and we're going to take care of it. I spoke with Attorney General Bill Barr at length. I spoke to Christopher Wray, Director of the F.B.I. I spoke to the Governors, both Governors and we're doing a lot of work. It does -- it is just not really not talked about very much. But we've done actually a lot, but perhaps more has to be done.

But this is also a mental illness problem. If you look at both of these cases, this is mental illness. These are really people that are very, very seriously mentally ill. So, a lot of things are happening.


LEMON: What's your reaction, Senator?

WARREN: Donald Trump says hate has no place in this country. Donald Trump has created plenty of space for hate. He is a racist. He has made one racist remark after another. He has put in place racist policies. And we've seen the consequences of it.

Hate crimes are up around this country, and people who are hateful, feel like they are now empowered, they are protected. They celebrate this President. This has turned America in a terrible direction. And Donald Trump keeps going and let's be clear, our Republican Congress, Republican leadership in Washington, they've got nothing to say about it.

And that means they just helped strengthen it. They help it keep moving right along.

LEMON: Well, you mentioned --

WARREN: It's time to fight back against this.

LEMON: Given what you said, where he said, hate has no place in our country. And you talked about what you said -- your words that he is racist -- but when you've given these -- the rise in these types of crimes like the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh; Christchurch in New Zealand, does the President need to be more forceful about condemning white supremacy in particular, Senator?

WARREN: Yes, white supremacy is a domestic terrorism threat, in the same way that foreign terrorism threatens our people. And it is the responsibility of the President of the United States to help fight back against that, not to wink and nod and smile at it and let it get stronger in this country.

LEMON: So you and I spoke about this less than a week ago at the debates. I'm going to play that exchange and then we'll talk about it.

WARREN: We did.


LEMON: Senator Warren, I'm coming to you now. Last week, the FBI Director Christopher Wray said that the majority of domestic terrorism cases this year have been motivated by white supremacy. In fact, the alleged shooter in this weekend's attack in Gilroy, California referenced a well-known white supremacist book on social media. How are you going to combat the rise of white supremacy?

WARREN: We need to call out white supremacy for what it is -- domestic terrorism -- and it poses a threat to the United States of America.

We live in a country now where the President is advancing environmental racism, economic racism, criminal justice racism, healthcare racism, the way we do better, is to fight back and show something better.


LEMON: Has the country been too slow to recognize what a major security threat this is?

WARREN: Well, I think there are many in the country who recognize it, but we have an administration that's pulling in exactly the opposite direction.

Donald Trump wants to deny it and his Justice Department is way too slow in responding to this, and that does not make us safer, as we've just seen in El Paso.

LEMON: Senator, won't you please stay with me? We've got much more with Senator Elizabeth Warren, right after this.


[22:38:21] LEMON: More details emerging after two mass shootings within 13 hours in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio. Back with me now, Senator Elizabeth Warren.

Senator, this is the third mass shooting in a week. You know, the House has passed sweeping gun control bills, sweeping gun control bill with bipartisan support in February, which would require universal background checks. Why hasn't Majority Leader McConnell move it forward?

WARREN: Because Majority Leader McConnell is not working for the American people. He is working for the N.R.A.. He is working for the gun manufacturers.

And the gun manufacturers don't want to see any legislation passed because it will bite into their bottom line. This is just one more example of the corruption in Washington.

A Washington that works great for drug manufacturers, for gun manufacturers, for giant oil companies, but it just doesn't work for anyone else. This is a real crisis in our democracy.

People want to see change. But right now, Mitch McConnell and the Republicans, they're just not going to let it happen.

LEMON: Let's talk more about the N.R.A., Senator. I mean, we've seen grassroots movements, the Parkland teens, the parents of Sandy Hook, trying to break the stranglehold the N.R.A. has over Congress. And my question for you, Senator is, why are all of these deaths and all the public reaction, why aren't they more powerful than the N.R.A.?

WARREN: Well, I think it's partly about leadership in Washington. Right now, we certainly don't have a President on the side of gun safety and trying to keep our people safe. We have a President that's pulling in exactly the opposite direction.

He has made it clear that he is right there in league with the N.R.A. and be clear. This is not just N.R.A. and their members. This is N.R.A. as financed by the gun manufacturers.

[22:40:08] WARREN: This is ultimately about money, people who make money from selling all of those guns. That's what it is that we have to focus on. But it doesn't mean we can't make change.

Look, here's how I see it. When I get elected, I'm going to do two things that I think are really important. The first one is I'll do by executive action, everything that can be done. That means we can strengthen background checks, for example. There's a lot that we can do. We can strengthen A.T.F.

We can make changes. The boyfriend loophole, we can close it up. I'll do all those things I can do by myself. But I will also lead from the White House.

And here's the thing, there are so many groups now that are getting more organized. The ones you mentioned, also, Mothers of the Movement, Moms Demand Action. The Kids March for Our Lives -- all of the groups that push from the other direction.

And I will call to get rid of the filibuster on day one, when Mitch McConnell tries to block action, we should be able to do this with a simple majority vote to get what the American people want us to do.

You know, you have to remember, six years ago, the United States Senate voted by 54 to 46 to increase background checks and put some other sensible gun safety legislation in place. It was bipartisan. Democrats and Republicans, the vote was 54 to 46.

But because of the filibuster, it failed. We simply can't do that anymore. So for me, this is about making structural change, the kind of change that will let us get through the gun legislation that we need to keep our children safe.

LEMON: Can we talk about other forms? And you know, because --


LEMON: There's been lots of talk about, what about online? How do you deal with that? These other forms like 8Chan, where all of this white supremacy stuff is circulating.

I mean, a person who identified himself as a suspected shooter posted a four-page manifesto minutes before the attack. And then tonight, "The New York Times" is reporting that the founder of 8Chan is calling the site to be -- for it to be shut down. Should these sites be shut down, Senator?

WARREN: Look, this is one where I'm very nervous about government intervention in this area. And yet, we have to be thinking about public safety here. I am worried -- I'm worried about all of the sites. I'm worried about how it is that people who may be racist themselves, who may be hateful themselves, link up with others, and they strengthen it and they build something until someone goes out and kills someone or kills a lot of people.

But part of this -- look, this is a hard problem that we've got to wrestle with. But let's remember, these deadly shootings would not be deadly shootings if people did not have access to the deadly guns that they do. This is a piece of the problem that we can deal with head on. It

won't solve it entirely. But it's a part that can keep us safer and keep our children safer.

So, we know what we need to do on gun legislation. We know what a President should do by herself. I want to be President and do those things that will at least help move us in the right direction.

And then the other part of this is it needs to be a President who talks about the value of every person, not a President who tries to tear families apart. Not a President who says ugly things about immigrants, ugly things about Muslims, ugly things about people who don't look like you, who don't sound like you.

This is a President right now, Trump, who has an overall message, and that is if there's something wrong in your life, if you're -- if you're struggling with your job or you don't have enough money and you feel stressed, blame them. Blame people who are different from you in any way, a different race, a different religion, that were born somewhere else, blame them.

And then he hopes -- that means he is going to stay in power and the rich and the powerful, they just can keep picking your pocket.

I think what 2020 is all about is saying we don't want government anymore that just works for that thin slice at the top. We want a democracy that really works for all of us. And it recognizes the value of all of us and invest in all of us. That's how we're going to build the America of our best values.

LEMON: Senator Elizabeth Warren, thank you so much.

WARREN: Thank you.

LEMON: And we need to report to you that just moments ago, Cloudflare, a San Francisco based company that provides services to 8Chan to keep the site online announced that it will stop providing support for the website in light of the deadly mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton.

[22:45:11] LEMON: 8Chan could go offline as soon as tonight. And for all the politicians talking today, D.C. has been stalled on gun legislation for what seems like forever. Former Ohio Governor John Kasich weighs in. He is next.


LEMON: Tonight, Senator Chuck Schumer is calling on Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to bring the Senate back from recess for an emergency session to take action on gun safety and to address gun violence. Let's discuss now. John Kasich is here. john is a former Governor of Ohio.

John, thank you so much for doing this. I want to start with some of the new details that we're learning about the shooting in your state. The shooter wore a mask, a bulletproof vest, and ear protection. Police were able to neutralize him within 30 seconds of him firing his first shot. And yet in that very short time, John, nine people are still dead, 27 others are injured. What does that tell you?

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it tells you about the power of these weapons and Don, I saw an interview, I believe it was on your show earlier where kids were interviewed -- young people were interviewed, knew this guy and he had a list of people that he wanted to kill.

Apparently, little that I understand here, he was, you know, kind of suspended from school. But this brings up an issue --

LEMON: That was back in high school, by the way.

KASICH: The red flag law. Okay, the red flag law where -- and this is a law that says if you know somebody who is unstable, who poses a threat to themselves or family or others, then you can take this to a court and the judge rules that they are not stable, you take their guns away until they're stabilized.

[22:50:15] KASICH: You know, Don, I fought for that, since the Las Vegas shooting. I couldn't pass it to either House. I couldn't pass it through committee. I mean, that's a simple law.

I would bet if you took a poll in this country, 90 percent or 80 percent of the people would support that. It's very reasonable. And it would say that if we see people with a history of real problems, they shouldn't have guns until they are stabilized. And I couldn't pass that.

How about background checks? How about comprehensive background checks? You want to buy a gun except for, you know, family, or gifts or things like that? Do a complete background check. Why not?

I mean, it I'll tell you, why not? Because the politicians are afraid and everybody wants to blame the N.R.A.. The N.R.A. has got power. But you know where the power really is? It's in a handful of very intense people who are gun owners in each and every one of these districts.

And you know, the N.R.A. is powerful, no question about it. But what people miss in this is it is -- it's the people that live locally. And look, most of these gun owners, most of them, the overwhelming majority of them support reasonable gun control legislation, and all that has to happen is these folks need to stand up to few people, to the few people who are completely unreasonable and get something done.

LEMON: All right, so when people try to get that done and then the N.R.A. intervenes, and then the senators who, you know, who get money from the N.R.A. and the Congress want to get money from the N.R.A., and by the way, which are honestly mostly Republicans, so then why don't they stand up and say something? I know you said that there are, you know, there are people in districts who own guns --

KASICH: Well, all right, first of all, let's just call it the way it is. The Democrats are not all on board with this, either. I mean, I'd heard Elizabeth Warren and other people. But I can tell you that in my legislature, there were a few, a few really strong people. Cecil Thomas, a State Senator, but there were some of them that wouldn't stand on the House floor or in the Senate and offer an amendment on the red flag law. They simply wouldn't do it. I think I know the real excuses why they won't do it.

LEMON: So you think Democrats in Congress now and in the Senate who don't want -- aren't fighting for sensible gun legislation?

KASICH: I don't know. But I can -- I can tell you what happened to my state. And this is not a Republican or Democrat. You're -- I mean, it's not that at all. I'm just saying that if you focus on just one party, it's not good enough. And frankly, the politicians of Ohio, from the Governor to the legislature --

LEMON: I've got to disagree with you. I've got to disagree with you there. Let me tell you why. Because if that -- it doesn't matter which party it is, whether it's the Republican Party or the Democratic Party, if that party is not in line with, as you say what most Americans want, then that party should be called out.

And let's be honest, that party considering what --

KASICH: Yes, I get that.

LEMON: Hold on, let me finish, considering what Americans really want. That party that needs to be called out right now is the party that is in control, which is the President's party, which is your former party. I'm not sure if you're still a Republican or a conservative.

KASICH: Hey, Don --

LEMON: Those are the people who are fighting against sensitive gun legislation or even considering the possibility of.

KASICH: Don, I -- yes, look, I called out my party. My party had the house and the Senate in Ohio. I attacked them all the time about this and criticized them significantly.

I'm just saying it's not that simple. You know what the real problem is? I'm going to tell you -- two things. One is, if I had been able to get 10,000 people out of the State of Ohio or the 11 million to show up on the Statehouse Grounds, we would have gotten the red flag law through and some of these other pieces of legislation.


KASICH: The problem is those who favor the gun control are not as active as those who will always and vociferously voice their objection.

LEMON: Right.

KASICH: But if you look at the places where things have changed, like in Florida, those tremendous courageous Parkland students, by the way, some of whom have been unbelievably criticized for what they did in Florida, that legislature had no more interest and that Governor had no more interest in gun control, reasonable gun control legislation, then they thought about flying to the moon.

But guess what? The Parkland students turned all of Florida against them, and they finally passed what a lot of those students wanted. That's what has to happen across this country. It has to come from the bottom up, and people need to say, "I'm going to hold you accountable."

I don't care whether you're Republican, I don't care whether you're a Democrat. I don't care whether you come from Mars, we're going to hold you accountable. Because this red flag law is the most reasonable and common sense -- and the legislature and the Governor in this state, they're all Republicans and should pass this.

There's they've studied this long enough. Now is the time to act. Will they do it? I don't know. I hope so.

LEMON: Okay, so listen, we've been -- you're talking about the red flag laws. You're talking about sensible gun laws. I don't know -- I don't know what is sensible anymore when you have these outrageous things that seem to be happening in larger numbers.

[22:55:15] LEMON: You've got the background checks --

KASICH: It's unbelievable.

LEMON: You've got the bump stocks. You've got mental health. And listen, I'm sure there's something to do on all of that. But you know what the one -- the one common denominator in all of this -- whether someone is mentally fit or mentally unfit, is that they have access to these very powerful weapons that most countries people don't have access to those weapons, and they don't have the number of shootings.

If someone who was mentally unstable had access to a knife or access to something else. I'm sure people would be killed, but not in rapid succession where nine people can be killed within a matter of 30 seconds. Something has to be done about that.

And the one common denominator among all of it, whether you want to deal with mental health or whatever, is the guns, Governor. That's the one common denominator.

KASICH: Hey, hey, Don, look, the red flag law takes the gun away. The background check, we hopefully will keep it out of the hands of people who shouldn't have it and we have local officials that never uploaded people who shouldn't be able to buy gun to the people who sell a gun. They didn't even know -- they were blind in terms of who these people were in there.

Should we have these? Should we have all these semi-automatics? Of course, we shouldn't. What about all the ammunition? Of course not. But Don, let's get something done --

LEMON: I've got to run, Governor. Please, go ahead quickly. KASICH: That'll create momentum for even more. That's what we have

to do.

LEMON: All right. Sorry to cut you off, but I'm out of time. I'll see you next time. Thank you for the conversation. We'll be right back.

KASICH: Yes, sir. Thank you.