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CUOMO PRIME TIME

Trump Warned Bahamian Refugees Could Be "Gang Members"; NHC Issues Tropical Storm Warning For Northwest Bahamas; Bahamians Face Threat Of Disease After Dorian; Democrats Face Each Other On The Debate Stage; All Eyes On Joe Biden And Elizabeth Warren; Not A Good Night For Julian Castro. Aired 9-10:30p ET

Aired September 12, 2019 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[21:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --Cuomo for PRIME TIME. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, Bud. Thank you very much. I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.

While the debate rages on about who wants to lead on the Democratic side, tonight I want to show you what is not getting the attention it should.

I'm going to bring you a Special Report on the ongoing crisis in the Bahamas. Here's the reality. We don't know way too much about the situation, especially the missing, the dead, the level of destruction and loss.

You will see, when we take you to the ground, it's a function of two things, the scale of the loss, and the inadequacy of the ability and the resources to respond.

Now we hear Dorian-battered islands could be hit by another tropical system soon. We'll show you the current path and expectation.

We also have the President's top Immigration official here, Ken Cuccinelli. We're going to ask him why the Administration's making it so hard for Bahamians to seek refuge here, now more so than before the storm. Why?

And two titans doing remarkable work to help hurricane victims join us, Chef Jose Andres is literally feeding the Bahamas. And NBA All- Star, Carmelo Anthony is here with an important reminder, "Don't forget Puerto Rico."

What do you say? Let's get after it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME SPECIAL REPORT.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, this is the interesting part about the missing situation. The number is down from like 2,500 to now 1,300, listed as missing, about two weeks after the most powerful storm in Bahamas' history.

But we know that that number is soft because they haven't even been able to search all these places. And they know that, for sure, there are thousands, many thousands, living with nothing, and many need to get out of there, at least for a while.

However, one escape hatch from the cat - catastrophe seems to be closing. CBP, here in the U.S., says those trying to enter the U.S. are being reviewed on a case-by-case basis. And we are told about 3,900 evacuees have been processed through Florida.

But then the President made this unproven claim that smacked of bad hombres, about drug dealers in the Bahamas trying to get in. Now, access has been denied. And the policy is supposedly unless you have a visa, or documentation, that is almost impossible to organize in this chaos, you can't get in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't want to allow people that weren't supposed to be in the Bahamas to come into the United States, including some very bad people and some very bad gang members and some very, very bad drug dealers. So, we are going to be very, very strong on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Let's bring in his Acting U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Director, Ken Cuccinelli.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: ONE ON ONE.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Ken, thank you for joining us.

KEN CUCCINELLI, ACTING DIRECTOR, U.S. CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION SERVICES: Good to be with you, Chris.

CUOMO: Now, as you know, I got good sources at CBP, I got good sources at DHS. Nobody can put meat on the bones of that allegation. They push back on me, and say, "We didn't close the door. We're going to let people in. We're figuring it out. Don't say that it's over."

But nobody could back up the President's claim he just made about what this risky population is. And the only one we know of being denied was not a group of drug dealers. They were mostly people with their kids trying to get in.

CUCCINELLI: Yes. I don't - I don't have anything to add to this subject. Obviously, we always want to be vetting people, no matter what the circumstances.

President's describing people, who aren't from the Bahamas, coming through the Bahamas, which is something that we are on watch for, and have added vetting resources over the years, particularly during the Trump Administration, that's been a major priority for him, whether it's Bahamas--

CUOMO: Well what is the proof of what he alleged?

CUCCINELLI: --or somewhere else, so we continue to do that.

CUOMO: Because it - it changed the policy, Ken.

CUCCINELLI: I - Chris, I said--

CUOMO: I'm not saying that you--

CUCCINELLI: --I don't have any other information on that.

CUOMO: No. But you must because you are in a position of authority now.

CUCCINELLI: So.

CUOMO: So, you got to do one of two things. You got to say--

CUCCINELLI: So, I must.

CUOMO: --"Here, Chris, here's the proof or two."

CUCCINELLI: What other answers must I have?

CUOMO: Well no, no, no, look - you got to do one of two things, Ken. You either have to say "The President meant this, and here's the basis," or "I don't know why he said that. It is not something that I can prove."

CUCCINELLI: Yes. I just told you that as Acting Director of USCIS, I don't have any additional information on that. I think that answers the question. And I never--

CUOMO: No. It doesn't.

CUCCINELLI: --try to tell people--

CUOMO: Can you confirm what he said?

CUCCINELLI: --what the President thinks.

CUOMO: Can you - I don't care. It's not about why he said it.

CUCCINELLI: No, I don't. I don't have--

CUOMO: It's what he said.

CUCCINELLI: I don't have information on it. So no, I cannot confirm that.

CUOMO: But then where did he get it from that there are drug dealers-- CUCCINELLI: I can't confirm that--

CUOMO: --trying to get in?

CUCCINELLI: --we are vetting - that we are vetting all these folks.

CUOMO: Have you vetted a single case of drug dealers--

CUCCINELLI: I - I can't answer that.

CUOMO: --trying to sneak in? Well you're in charge of it.

CUCCINELLI: I can't speak. I - I can tell you we vet all of the folks who do come in--

CUOMO: Have you caught a single drug dealer--

CUCCINELLI: --and when we do this on short notice--

CUOMO: --trying to come in?

CUCCINELLI: And we do this on short notice, it makes it a lot more difficult.

CUOMO: Have you caught a--

CUCCINELLI: I don't have the answer to that, Chris.

CUOMO: --single drug dealer?

CUCCINELLI: You--

CUOMO: Yes, you do, because I've heard the answer is zero--

CUCCINELLI: I don't - I don't know that.

CUOMO: --from five different sources.

CUCCINELLI: Well that's great. Well you didn't tell me you were going to ask that question before I got on here. And I'm sitting here with no notes. So, I don't know the answer to that question.

[21:05:00] CUOMO: What? You didn't think I was going to ask you about--

CUCCINELLI: The answer may exist. But I don't have it here off the top of my head.

CUOMO: --your job of screening people that come in to country?

CUCCINELLI: Chris, do you think I screen all 9 million visas that we handle every year? I don't.

CUOMO: No. But I think that if you had proof that the President was right, you'd be giving to me right now, Ken.

CUCCINELLI: In fact, I don't make visa decisions. Courier (ph) people do.

CUOMO: I think if you had proof he was right--

CUCCINELLI: Yes. Well--

CUOMO: --you would have offered it up right up--

CUCCINELLI: --maybe--

CUOMO: --at the top of the show.

CUCCINELLI: Chris, maybe you should - maybe instead of sandbagging me, you should try to give a little heads-up on what you'd like to actually have a--

CUOMO: Hold on, hold on, Ken.

CUCCINELLI: --constructive conversation about.

CUOMO: But - come on, Ken.

CUCCINELLI: Because I had frequently had constructive conversations with you.

CUOMO: Ken, Ken.

CUCCINELLI: But, you know, here we are, talking about the Bahamas, and you want to ask me about something, you know, about one quote from the President.

CUOMO: Yes, I do.

Ken, come on, Brother. Don't paint me like that. You know I'm not a sandbag or there's nothing sneaky about me. I'm painfully obvious. You know the President said this today. You know it's indefensible. I just don't understand why you guys just--

CUCCINELLI: And I don't change my day--

CUOMO: --can't help him correct the behavior.

CUCCINELLI: --and I don't change my day based on every quote that other people hear from the President. I do not follow around everything--

CUOMO: Hear from?

CUCCINELLI: --the President says all day. I don't even follow his tweets all day, Chris.

CUOMO: Good for you. It'll keep you sane.

CUCCINELLI: I do my job all day.

CUOMO: But it affects your policy. And I'm wondering--

CUCCINELLI: Saner.

CUOMO: --why won't you give the Bahamians TPS, Temporary Protected Status? Republicans and Democrats have done it for situations--

CUCCINELLI: Sure.

CUOMO: --just like this.

CUCCINELLI: Yes. We - we used to do that when the courts obeyed the law written in the statute that Congress passed that says they wouldn't review when we close those.

So, when the Executive branch tried to end some previous TPSes, some of them now, Chris, over 20 years old, 20 years old. The oldest one is for a hurricane, if I remember correctly, in 1998.

And because the courts are breaking the law by not obeying what Congress wrote, they have essentially taken that tool away from us. But we are using other forms of humanitarian relief.

In your intro, you mentioned case-by-case consideration by Customs Border Protection. What that refers to is Humanitarian Parole, which can be utilized in situations like this. In fact, that is what CBP is frequently using in this situation.

And we've also brought medical cases to this country. There's an awful lot of humanitarian relief going on--

CUOMO: But people are being turned back.

CUCCINELLI: --being provided by the U.S. government both in--

CUOMO: They're being told they have to have documentation.

CUCCINELLI: --Bahamas and here.

CUOMO: They're at - being told now, they need documentation that is more fulsome than what they needed even before the storm. If anything, you think there'd be leniency after a storm like this. Why would you make it harder to get in?

CUCCINELLI: Yes. No, we - we - we don't make it harder. We use the same standards. And when CBP processes people at a point of entry, they do need proof of identity. They need to know who people are.

CUOMO: Sure.

CUCCINELLI: So they can even--

CUOMO: They're asking for more than that.

CUCCINELLI: --decide whether parole's appropriate.

CUOMO: They're asking for proof of land ownership, bills, a visa. Who's going to organize that stuff when your house was just destroyed? CUCCINELLI: Yes. What they might ask for, Chris, is proof of address, not - no - not land ownership, except insofar as it helps to prove identity. Identity is the key when you're looking at--

CUOMO: Proof of income, property ownership.

CUCCINELLI: --vetting people for entry.

CUOMO: I'm just letting you know, even though I mean this - this is your area of expertise, proof of ownership, proof of income, utility bills.

My house was just blown up. How - how am I going to get these kinds of - this kinds of paperwork? You're supposed to make it easier right now and vet them. That's what TPS is about.

CUCCINELLI: No. TPS is Temporary Protected Status--

CUOMO: Yes.

CUCCINELLI: --for people who are already here. It doesn't have to do with people coming in. That's the Humanitarian Parole that I mentioned that CBP is, in fact, using.

And let's keep in mind that most of the Bahamas is still in perfectly good shape. The two north - big northern islands were the ones that got hammered here. And so, there - we're also working with the Bahamian government about taking care of folks in the home islands where they live as well so.

CUOMO: I have heard good reports about the United States being responsive.

CUCCINELLI: And the Coast Guard's doing great job doing that too.

CUOMO: The Coast Guard, I've heard about, and other ancillary organizations are helping.

CUCCINELLI: They've been Rockstars.

CUOMO: But it seems like the--

CUCCINELLI: Yes.

CUOMO: --President has extended his "Bad Hombres, Brown Menace" mentality to the Bahamas, and it changed the course of CBP and DHS that now they were open to helping people--

CUCCINELLI: No. No. I--

CUOMO: --in getting them in and now it's slowed down.

CUCCINELLI: Chris?

CUOMO: And the requirements are up. CUCCINELLI: I think you - I think you misunderstand that. The - the course has not changed. The number you cited, the most updated number, that 3,900 folks from the Bahamas here, that is almost a 1,000 more than, say, 36 hours ago. So, this process is continuing.

There are - there are requirements, vetting requirements. But Bahamians are still coming into this country, appropriately vetted, and legally, but they're still coming in. That has not stopped, which you said earlier, that's just not accurate, Chris.

CUOMO: Well people were take--

CUCCINELLI: And it's not stopped.

CUOMO: --people were taken off of--

CUCCINELLI: It is--

[21:10:00] CUOMO: People were kicked off a boat. They were told that they didn't need a visa to get in. They just needed proof of identification and their criminal record. They had that with them. And then, CBP said that was not enough.

Then Mark Morgan was asked at CBP, and he said, "Listen, we're going to relax the standards in situations like this." That's not unusual. Republicans and Democrats have done it.

Then after the President said what he said, DHS put out a different statement saying "No, no, no. You need visas. You need to have more specific documentation." And that's where we got this checklist from, so something changed.

But let me ask you about something else that changed while I have you. The Asylum ruling from the Supreme Court, just for people who are following at home, obviously you know it, you're a very skilled lawyer, it basically says the government has the right to put into play its new Asylum policy, about the rules for asylum, which essentially says "You can't forum-shop. You have to go to the first place you can to seek protection. You can't forum-shop and come to the United States--

CUCCINELLI: Right.

CUOMO: --unless you're denied access somewhere else. And you can do that--

CUCCINELLI: Right.

CUOMO: --while the case is being appealed."

My - what I don't understand is what we heard in the dissent of that case. Where is the safe place for these people to go when they're fleeing from Central America between there and here?

CUCCINELLI: Well every - first of all, people are coming from all over the world through Mexico, and through the - through Central America, and that it has become sort of an avenue of access, the Southern border. We're - we're catching people, crossing illegally, from countries all over the world.

The - the greatest numbers, as you note, Chris, are from straight south of us. Mexico is still very - number one on the list.

CUOMO: Well and the Central America as a group though--

CUCCINELLI: And then Central America as well.

CUOMO: --is bigger now. Central America as a grouping is bigger now.

CUCCINELLI: Yes.

CUOMO: The Triangle Countries.

CUCCINELLI: If you'd combine them all--

CUOMO: And where are they supposed to go, those people?

CUCCINELLI: If you'd combine them all, they've gotten much bigger.

CUOMO: Right like I guess Mexico--

CUCCINELLI: One - one of the countries they pass through first--

CUOMO: Mexico.

CUCCINELLI: --that one of the countries they pass through first. And let's keep in mind - well if you're in Guatemala, Mexico--

CUOMO: Right.

CUCCINELLI: --is the only country you pass through. It's different for Honduras and El Salvador, of course, but - and points farther south.

But look, Chris, when we see our credible fear numbers, the - the credible fear interviews where we have very little pushback, and very little negative screening, 80 percent coming through, and yet only 10, 12, 15 percent of those folks actually ultimately qualify.

The - the 70 or 80 percent of people in between those two, 60 to 70 percent of people in between those two are clogging a pipeline that keeps legitimate asylum-seekers from being able to get through our humanitarian offerings.

CUOMO: So, why don't we extend or--

CUCCINELLI: And we are at 330,000--

CUOMO: --why don't we expand our capabilities?

CUCCINELLI: --cases. We - we're adding, this calendar year, Chris, since I've started the leadership at USCIS, we will add 50 percent more Asylum officers this year. We are growing that capacity. But where we have a true backlog that is very large, 335,000 cases, is

in the asylum space. And a lot of it is grown out of this crisis at the Southern border where we have a lot of people claiming asylum, who have no persecution, no threats.

There are only a limited number of governments in the Western Hemisphere any longer that - that pose these kinds of threats. And yet, many people realize that what they could do, they hopefully can't any longer, was swamp our Southern border so, so many of them got released in the interior--

CUOMO: Right.

CUCCINELLI: --and many of those just don't show up when they have--

CUOMO: But Ken, why is the best result--

CUCCINELLI: --court dates because their goal was just to get caught and released.

CUOMO: But why is the best way to do it to stop the U.S. policy of "If you get here, we'll vet your claim." You know, Mexico, you know about the reports that are coming out of Tijuana, and other places.

As people start filling them up, as they wait for entry into the U.S., the crime is on the way up, the violence is on the way up. That is a dangerous place, and it's getting more dangerous for people.

Why take a risk when we could just expand capacity? Why take a risk with these people getting hurt or sending people back--

CUCCINELLI: Chris, Chris--

CUOMO: --who are legitimate asylum-seekers?

CUCCINELLI: --we'd love to - we'd love to expand capacity. You touch on a really important point. Congress refuses to do that. All they do is complain about the crowding.

They can fix it. And they've done it. We know they can do it because in early June, you'll remember, that supplemental appropriation--

CUOMO: Sure.

CUCCINELLI: --that got passed by Congress to help children--

CUOMO: Yes.

CUCCINELLI: --which we had been - the Administration had been begging them for that for months. And once they got--

CUOMO: When the Administration wasn't saying that it--

(CROSSTALK)

CUCCINELLI: --it was a fake crisis-- CUOMO: --liked the policy of harshness on kids because it worked. I had that memo. It was before your time. But they were plenty happy to be using--

CUCCINELLI: Yes.

CUOMO: --that method.

CUCCINELLI: Yes. Nobody wants children in inappropriate facilities. And the Border Patrol facilities were made for single adult males, primarily to be repatriated--

CUOMO: I'd agree.

[21:15:00] CUCCINELLI: --quickly back to Mexico. And when we got enough money from Congress in one month, Chris, in one month, and I know you've been to the border, and studied this, in one month, we got those kids into child appropriate facilities.

We got all of the overcrowding related to children down, gone. And kids were out of Border Patrol facilities in under three days--

CUOMO: Well the money matters. The money matters.

CUCCINELLI: --regularly when they finally--

CUOMO: And I am not questioning--

CUCCINELLI: --took the experts'--

CUOMO: I got it.

CUCCINELLI: --advice.

CUOMO: I get - listen, what I'm saying is this.

CUCCINELLI: And that's the answer with respect to the other detention.

CUOMO: I - I'm with you. I'm just saying I don't think you have to change the rules, if you can expand capacity. And I know the money matters.

And I am not questioning the motivations of the men and women who do the job on the Border. I've seen it firsthand. There are bad apples in every bunch, but those are good men and women doing a good job.

And Ken, I hope you know, sandbagging ain't me. I'm just asking you about what's obvious, as always, and you're always welcome.

CUCCINELLI: Hey Chris, I love to answer your questions. You know that. I love to have the debate. But if - if I - if I have better specifics coming in, I'll prepare. I do my homework.

CUOMO: Listen, you're a smart guy. I respect you. I want you on the show. You find out whatever you want to find out about it. You get the information. You got a case to make, your invitation is open, you come right back, all right?

CUCCINELLI: Good to be with you, Chris.

CUOMO: Absolutely, absolutely.

Listen, we don't need animosity. You got to disagree with decency. I don't sandbag anybody ever. I am painfully obvious. The President said it. The policy seemed to change. So, I asked.

Even more concerning news, tonight, a tropical storm warning is in effect tonight for some of the islands already crushed by Dorian. Things may only get worse. Let me show you how bad it is now.

We're going to go live to the Bahamas when our Special Report continues.

[21:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Sad to say but the people of the Bahamas are back on alert tonight as a potential tropical storm threatens to strike the very same areas already devastated by Dorian.

It's been, you know, about two weeks since that Category 5 landed. Efforts are largely turning to recovery. The death toll stands at 50, but there's so much that's unknown.

CNN's Paula Newton is joining us live out of Nassau tonight with the reality there. We're going to talk to her in a moment. Here's what she's finding.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Its ferocity was so vicious survivors describe a storm that seems to want to wipe them out.

SHERRIE ROBERTS, HURRICANE DORIAN SURVIVOR: Words can't describe. I don't wish it to (ph) nobody.

NEWTON: Still stunned, at their own survival, the aftermath has been crippling. Nearly one in five Bahamians are now homeless. More than 2,100 are in shelters. And at least hundreds more, taken in by family, friends, even strangers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The food tastes good.

NEWTON: The price tag already at a staggering $8 billion, and counting. And while the winds have calmed, the sense of urgency hasn't, the need to feed, shelter, and clothe so many, for months, maybe years, while trying to cope with finding, and identifying the hundreds still missing. And many who survived are struggling with traumatic experiences.

During the storm, thousands scrambled from room to room, house to house, buildings crumbling or flooding around them with alarming speed. WILLIAM DAVIS, HURRICANE SURVIVOR FROM MARSH HARBOR: And the same boat here, it was just as high as the roof. It started to come on to the - on to the roof with me as I was holding on for their life.

NEWTON: Hurricane Dorian was stronger than predicted. It lasted longer than predicted. It lingered and lashed out with gusts that resembled thousands of terrifying tornadoes as the storm ground to a halt grinding across the islands.

NANCY ALBURY, HURRICANE SURVIVOR FROM MAN-O-WAR CAY: Sitting in the living room, and all of a sudden, the roof did a - it just came off.

NEWTON: Hundreds lost track of not just belongings, but each other.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're OK. OK, OK, you're OK.

NEWTON: Relief, overwhelmed reunions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's OK. You're OK. You're OK. You're OK.

NEWTON: Others though, still days after the storm, were desperate for proof of life, this woman frantic to find her cousin.

WINIS LOUISDOR, LOOKING FOR MISSING COUSIN: I hope they find him. I hope so. We just have a son. You know, I've been not to be able to face yet (ph). I hope they find him. I hope so.

NEWTON: Others know exactly what happened to loved ones. They watch and wait the grim search for bodies, knowing some victims were swept out to sea.

The evacuations are now nearly complete. On the minds of most, "How do you even begin to rebuild."

TROY ALBURY, FIRE CHIEF, GREAT GUANA CAY FIRE DEPARTMENT: We can't do it alone. We need help, lots of help, lots of help. It's going to be monetary help. It's going to be, I mean, just you don't even know where to start.

NEWTON: Dorian shattered lives here, but also expectations, about how hurricanes behave, and what survival looks like after they've passed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: All right, Paula is joining us now from Nassau. Nassau, one of the places that was basically spared, but we need it. It is the home base to get to these other areas.

So, on top of everything that they're enduring, and the unknown, another storm brewing, how are people taking that information? And what is the rate of new information there?

NEWTON: Here's the issue, Chris. These people have been traumatized by the storm.

Remember, they didn't have communication during the first storm about how long it was going to last. And now, they see it coming their way, and they're going to wonder, obviously traumatized, how hard is this going to hit?

Look, it is going to hit those affected areas again. Many people, thankfully, have already been evacuated. It's going to be a shelter- in-place event. Chris, the problem is people have tarps over the heads, the ones that decided to live there.

And obviously, there's a lot of debris that is also going to be an issue. And it's going to be a danger, not to mention groundwater contamination, and this storm, this new approaching storm--

CUOMO: Right.

NEWTON: --isn't going to help.

The other urgent issue, of course though, Chris, is what do you do when you're here in Nassau. And that's one thing that's really starting to wear on people who survived one of the strongest storms on earth already.

CUOMO: And Paula, I want to give you some thanks.

[21:25:00] Your reporting on the ground about what people are encountering when they're trying to leave, what documents they're being asked to have, what they're being told they need, and that it's more stringent than it was even before the storm, I was using that reporting basis as part of the argumentation against the Administration official we head on.

So, thank you for giving us the word from the ground, so we can test power appropriately. Good luck to you, and the team, down there, OK?

All right, so what are officials doing to keep disease from spreading on the islands? That's a big thing that we don't cover a lot, like the storm is over, that's when the disease begins. The pooling water, all the waste from the sewage, how is that going?

We're going to turn to the Bahamas Minister of Health for a live update, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right, so for those who are still trying to make-do in the Bahamas or looking to return to some of the hardest-hit areas there, there's another threat.

You know, your house may be gone. There's no infrastructure. But those pools of water, the sewage, the debris, the decay, all of that can lead to disease. Some lack access to toilets, clean water, medical care. Some hospitals and clinics last personnel - they lack personnel and needed supplies.

[21:30:00] So, let's bring in Dr. Duane Sands. He's the Health Minister of the Bahamas.

Thank you, Doctor, for joining us.

DUANE SANDS, MINISTER OF HEALTH, THE BAHAMAS: Good evening. It's a pleasure to be with you.

CUOMO: And thank - thank God, I find you well on this phone call. And I know a lot of people, in your care, are not similarly situated. People often neglect the aftermath effects of waterborne disease, and problems with sanitation. What are you finding?

SANDS: Well, thankfully, we were somewhat proactive in recognizing that this was going to be a challenge. And so, we have literally sent out a small army of public health officials, some from the Bahamas, but many from the Pan American Health Organization.

So, they have descended into the Bahamas and, in particular, into Abaco, Grand Bahama, and also New Providence, and Nassau to deal aggressively with the challenges of waterborne, food-borne diseases, and the infectious challenges that typically arise in the second phase after a storm.

CUOMO: So, how do you--

SANDS: I believe--

CUOMO: Oh, go ahead, Doctor, please.

SANDS: We - we have now set up outposts in virtually every settlement in Abaco and all of the inhabitable settle - settlements in Grand Bahama, so that in terms of the acute care, and primary care facilities, for the most part, they are now up and running.

CUOMO: Well that's good news. How do you deal with these high numbers of at least temporarily homeless?

I mean there's about 70,000 homes have been taken out, based on what they know from the obvious areas, not so much a reckoning of the outer settlements yet. And you have, a certain percentage that, have nowhere to be at all.

How do you accommodate now? What do you need?

SANDS: So, your numbers, we have 70,000, give or take, in both Abaco and Grand Bahama. So, in terms of the number of homes lost, it's still a very large number.

That said, what we have done for those homes that are habitable, people have remained in them, but a number of people have evacuated, some 8,000 persons have been evacuated from both islands.

And then, many people are in shelters. We have set up public health and primary care facilities outside every shelter. And we have recognized that many people simply don't have the ability to get to healthcare, and so we've had to take healthcare to them.

CUOMO: Right. The biggest concern, Doctor, now is going to be how many people were lost. The number of missing has come down. That's good.

But the idea of there only being 50 lost, I mean I - I hope that that's the number. I hope not one more is added. But the unknown is frightening here. What is your biggest concern?

SANDS: I - I don't believe that, any of us truly believe, that the number will settle out at 50. When we see that we still have 2,500 or so missing persons, clearly, the difference between 50 and 2,500, that number is going to climb somewhere significantly.

In the meantime, we continue to care for those people that have been seriously traumatized, who have lost loved ones, who are anxious, wondering every day if they will ever see their mother, their father, their children.

And this is a - a particularly difficult thing for people who have lost their homes, their possessions, and to make matters worse, possibly somebody near and dear to them.

CUOMO: That is obviously irreplaceable. That's why we were just testing America's government, the administration here, in terms of giving TPS, Temporary Protected Status to Bahamians, and what the rules are, and whether they're being relaxed, or made more strict, in light of what our President said.

We know the need is great. We know everybody has to pitch in. And we know that's not going to end any time soon.

Dr. Duane Sands, when you need information to get out, when you have specific needs that you would like addressed by the larger community, just off your shores, please know that you have a friend in us here.

SANDS: Thank you so much.

I must say that there have been many international partners who have gone above and beyond. But if I would be so bold as to single-out any individual ally or a partner, the United States has been amazing.

CUOMO: Good. That is good to hear. And hopefully, there's more to come. Minister, be well.

SANDS: Thank you. Good night.

CUOMO: All right, now one of the people, who is certainly a hero on the ground in these situations is Legendary Chef, Jose Andres. He's been on the ground, fighting for Bahamians since Dorian came roaring in.

Do you remember this video of him?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CHEF JOSE ANDRES' VIDEO DURING HURRICANE DORIAN)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:35:00] CUOMO: He is the real deal. What is he seeing, what is the need, next, with the Great Chef.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: The U.S. government is ramping up its aid to the Bahamas.

You just heard the Minister of Health saying that the help had - from the United States has been very, very good. $4 million announced today. That brings total U.S. assistance to more than $10 million.

Others, like Chef Jose Andres, are taking a personal approach. He does what he does best. He fills stomachs. He's got close to 10,000 meals a day going.

So far, his World Food Kitchen has delivered over a 150,000 fresh meals across three islands, New Providence, Abaco, and Grand Bahama. The Chef joins us now with an update from the ground.

It is great to see you, my friend, as always. I seem to find you in the hardest-bitten places, even more than I am there these days. What is it like on the ground for you and your team?

JOSE ANDRES, CHEF, FOUNDER, WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN: Well every day is a new day.

I think, today, we see that finally we have a great rhythm. Today, like yesterday, we delivered 30,000 meals, 20,000 in Grand Bahama, the rest between here in Providence and Abaco.

[21:40:00] So you know the situation. I will say at least it's under control. But there's so many things that have to happen still today, and going forward.

CUOMO: How much fear is there about the unknown? How many of the missing aren't missing, they're gone? And how long it will take?

And if people are trapped, and now the United States may be changing the rules for people to come here, while things get better, what's the anxiety on the ground about all that?

ANDRES: Well still we have many rescue teams, many from the States. I know this one from Fairfax, Virginia, another one from Washington State that they - still they are doing a lot of search, search for those 2,500 unaccounted people.

Let's hope that the number doesn't increase much more and that, hopefully, those 2,500 just happens that they are people that they are in shelters or they are in the homes of family members.

But I want to tell you one thing because this is very important to understand.

We're talking about 20,000 people in Abaco, around 70,000 people in Bahama. We're talking that almost 20 percent of the population of an entire country has been hit by this hurricane. Many has lost their homes, family members. This is unbelievable. Imagine that in the United States, 20 percent of our population will lose their homes, and they will show up one morning without water, without electricity, without cell signal, wow, this is total chaos.

With that, they want to say that they do believe that this country that this is small country in size, but very big country in heart, actually has done a fairly good job in handling this situation.

So, I want the world to know that there are sometimes, in these situations, you began hearing criticisms. I think that, if anything, the Prime Minister, and the entire Bahamian government, supported by the international organizations, they've done a fairly good job.

CUOMO: What do you think - that's good to know. And what do you think people should do who want to help?

ANDRES: Listen, as for example, we keep doing food, and we are helping the government, use - making sure that that's not a problem. Other people, USAID show up (ph), United Nations, they're also trying to help with water, with house and food in some parts.

But we've been taking kind of this leadership (ph). Now you're at home, and you are watching, what can you do?

Listen, sometimes, we want to start sending things, and we send so many things that sometimes this creates a bigger problem than a solution. We need to make sure that, if anything, even if you give a dollar, a dollar helps.

There's many organization that you can go to their web page of the Bahamian government, and you will see how you can be supportive. But it's a great way to support in a passive way.

You are planning your vacation. You know where you should be coming? You should be coming to Bahamas. There's plenty of islands, this - the big one, Providence is perfect. Many other little islands are ready to welcome you.

You want to help the country, you want to help the people, show up as tourists, and this is an amazing way to be helping this country move forward into their reconstruction.

CUOMO: That's a great idea!

Chef, when you come back, assuming you're not consumed by the rest of the storm season, we'll pick a weekend. My family, your family will go away.

ANDRES: Oh!

CUOMO: It's on me. We'll go to the Bahamas, all right?

ANDRES: Let's think that happen--

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Stay safe and stay well.

ANDRES: Thank you.

CUOMO: Take care.

All right, I'm going to come back to the Bahamas in a bit. But there's another hurricane catastrophe that we just can't forget because things there are not back to anything near normal.

NBA All-Star, Carmelo Anthony, is here to talk about why he had to find more ways to help rebuild Puerto Rico, and why it's so special for him, next.

[21:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right, welcome back to our Special Report. Lot of attention on the Bahamas, and rightly so, but don't forget Puerto Rico. They're still dealing with the destruction and heartache caused by Hurricane Maria.

So, we brought in Carmelo Anthony, you know him, the NBA All-Star. And he's using his Foundation to bring basketball courts to the people, but also education, meals, and much more, because he's seen the need expand.

We spoke to him in a candid interview about his connection to the island.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Carmelo Anthony, thank you so much for taking--

CARMELO ANTHONY, NBA ALL-STAR, FOUNDER, CARMELO ANTHONY FOUNDATION: Thanks.

CUOMO: --the opportunity.

ANTHONY: Thanks for having me.

CUOMO: Respect you as an athlete, respect you even more, as someone who's a citizen, trying to give back. Tell people about your connection to Puerto Rico.

ANTHONY: I'm half Puerto Rican. My dad is - was Puerto Rican. And I - I just found my connection probably three years into my NBA career.

I started going back to the island. I started getting in to them, back to my roots, and my family, and - and then I started my - my Foundation down there, the Carmelo Anthony Foundation.

We started doing a very Melo weekend now and then that it includes golf, and just, you know, just a - a really, really good weekend. Then we started donating basketball courts. And I'll - my first court was in La Perla down there and--

CUOMO: What do you think the courts mean to the communities? ANTHONY: It's a connection, right? I think sports brings a lot of different things, a lot of different people together.

When I did it, I didn't know what to expect, man. I just wanted to go back into that particular neighborhood, being one of the roughest neighborhoods down there, and on the island, and give back.

And then we have - years later now, I still have people that to this day come back to me, and say, "Thank you."

CUOMO: You do at least a court every year. And you've been seeing that grow. Then Maria happens.

ANTHONY: Yes.

[21:50:00] CUOMO: And you decide you have to get more involved. Why and what?

ANTHONY: We sent planes down there. We - we teamed up with UNICEF and Feed the Children.

You know, basketball courts, hygiene kits like we - we was - my team was on the - on the ground, and in the trenches, doing their whole, you know, after the hurricane and, you know, post-hurricane, and we just wanted to give back like I just felt like something my heart, my soul that I had to do something like I have to.

CUOMO: And it was a weird situation because people were talking about Puerto Rico like it was a different country.

ANTHONY: Yes, I mean it's - it's we didn't even--

CUOMO: "Them." "That place."

ANTHONY: --feel a part of it.

CUOMO: "That island."

ANTHONY: We didn't even feel a part of it, right, and just to see the images that was going on, from afar, the way that the island was being disrespected, the way that Puerto Ricans was being disrespected, thinking it was just something that, like for me, as an individual, like I felt like I had to do that - do something that during that time. But also, it brought me closer to, you know, my - my Puerto Rican roots.

CUOMO: What do you want people to know about how great the need still is there?

ANTHONY: We need everything, right? It is something - we all know the, you know, the financial crisis down there and, you know, the economy, we know that.

We know the hurricane really put us back years and years and years. But we also see what's going on from, you know, government standpoint and politics and things like that. So, it's - we're just in a very, very tough situation right now, and a tough moment, and a tough environment. But, as all Puerto Ricans, like we come together, we stay strong, we keep our head up.

CUOMO: I mean, look, with Rosello, you know, the Governor who was down there--

ANTHONY: Absolutely.

CUOMO: --the people went out in the streets.

ANTHONY: Yes.

CUOMO: Demanded he leave--

ANTHONY: Yes.

CUOMO: --because they felt he didn't represent the standard of what they wanted anymore.

ANTHONY: Absolutely.

CUOMO: You're not seeing that in the Continental United States.

ANTHONY: No, you're not.

CUOMO: What did that speak to for you?

ANTHONY: It - how - how strong we were, right, as - as - as a - as - as people, as a unit, as an island, as Puerto Ricans, right, is there's a certain pride that we had.

And just seeing those images of the people in the streets, right, and what they stand for, I have family, like my sister was down there, like leading the protestors like it was - it was tough, man. But it was also great to see, you know, the - the island come together like that.

CUOMO: So, you have two different big influences of your life where the people, they're all about the passion of the place. You got Puerto Rico and you got Baltimore.

ANTHONY: Yes.

CUOMO: You know, of course, the President's involved in both of these situations.

ANTHONY: Yes, of course.

CUOMO: He's involved in everything these days. But what he said about Puerto Rico, you saw how they took it. What he said about Baltimore, tell people about what it's like to be from Baltimore, and to hear your place call - you - you can see rats running all over everybody.

ANTHONY: Yes.

CUOMO: To call it that that's all it is--

ANTHONY: Yes. It's--

CUOMO: --what does that mean?

ANTHONY: I see that right now, saw that like I - I grew up in that, right? But it's something that we - we - we're trying to fix, right? We - we - we want a better Baltimore, right?

So, for somebody of that stature to call the place, like Baltimore, that has so much heart and soul and then culture and creativity, just called it rat-infested, like that right there was just that - that was a stab in our heart.

And Baltimore is the place that's ready to explode, right? And we - we saw what - what happened with the Freddie Gray, you know, tragedy. Now, we see in Baltimore bubbling again.

And, at the end of the day, we don't want that to happen. But, like you said, you look at what's - what's happening in Puerto Rico that everybody's coming together.

Baltimore is a place where you keep pushing us, you keep pushing us, you keep pushing us, people are going to come together, and then, hopefully, it's for the right reason, but you just don't know what's going to happen.

CUOMO: You're not an easily intimidated person.

ANTHONY: No.

CUOMO: But you got to pick your spots. You can put your money where your mouth is all day long. You do that brilliantly. You did it in Baltimore. You did it early. You do it in Puerto Rico.

But now you see things around you, you see people in positions of leadership, you don't need them, but you don't like what they're saying or you don't like how it's going.

How do you figure out "Here's what I'm going to speak about. I'm going to say something about this or I'm not going to get into it because I got to worry about my brand, I got to worry about me being a ballplayer first"--

ANTHONY: Yes.

CUOMO: --or whatever. How do you figure out what to say when you don't like what power is doing?

ANTHONY: I just think - I think I'm past - I want to protect myself and protect my brand.

But I think I'm past "Oh, I can't say this because of my brand," like I got to - I have to talk about what I feel, what's near and dear to me, my connectivity to my people, which is Baltimore, which is Puerto Rico, which is, you know, New York. CUOMO: And when people say "Shut up and dribble," as we heard said about--

ANTHONY: That--

CUOMO: --LeBron James.

ANTHONY: --that just makes us - that makes us come together. And that makes us want to say something even more, right, because we have a voice. We have a major, major voice and a lot of different genres that's out there on a lot of different topics.

So, I'm going to continue using my voice. I don't think - I don't think anybody is going to stop me from doing that. But I'm - I want to use my voice and steer things into the right direction, not just to use my voice just because I have one.

CUOMO: I remember Harry Belafonte said to me once, "Before they see what's in my pocket, they always see what's on my skin."

ANTHONY: 1000 percent.

CUOMO: "And that that's who I am in this country."

ANTHONY: 1000 percent.

CUOMO: "And I got to deal with that."

ANTHONY: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Well, listen, what I see is what you're doing.

ANTHONY: Thank you.

CUOMO: Forget about the court. I didn't even need to talk about it. What you're doing for people, who need help--

ANTHONY: Thank you.

CUOMO: --that's everything.

ANTHONY: I appreciate it.

CUOMO: Makes you an All-Star any way you look at it.

ANTHONY: My guy, thank you.

[21:55:00] CUOMO: Carmelo Anthony, thank you.

ANTHONY: I appreciate it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: All right, so that's just some of what's happening with Americans helping Americans through one disaster. Now, we need to help our neighbors in the Bahamas. That's obvious. I'm going to show you who's already jumping in and how you can have

their backs, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right, you know, it can't just be about the problem in the Bahamas. We have to promote solutions.

That's where Jake Wood comes in. He leads Team Rubicon. They are a wonderful non-profit made up of veterans. They've been on the ground in the disaster zone for a week. They do this all over the world.

They are that first wave, medical, working to stop disease, clean debris, infrastructure for communications, chainsaws, roofs, the lists goes on. They, you know, they have so many skills. So, you want to help Team Rubicon.

Chef Andres, raising money for Team Rubicon, and you can help him with money. It's one of the 20 charities working on Dorian that you can find on the CNN Impact Your World page. How do you get there? cnn.com/impact, OK?

Thank you for being part of the solution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: PRIME TIME PRIMARY

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right, let's turn now to breaking debate news. The top 10 2020 Democrats had been mixing it up in Texas. And this has been an interesting night. Joe Biden had to come to play.

Did he come as jolting Joe or sleepy Joe? What about Elizabeth Warren? She's been on the rise. Did she raise her game? Let's face it. A lot of candidates on that stage are fighting to survive. They say electability is key. What did that mean tonight? Anyone proving they have what it takes to take on this president toe to toe?

Let's bring in our Prime Time primary team to assess what's going on so far, the one and only David Gregory. We got Sabrina Siddiqui, and Elaina Plott. All right. Everybody has been kind of watching except when you've been sitting here, it is still ongoing. Big takeaway, Dave?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think Joe Biden showed up tonight. I think he showed that he's steadier. I think he had fight in him. He had Bernie Sanders on his right. He had Elizabeth Sanders on his left even though they're both on his left. And he was able to give it and take it a little bit.

They spent the first 40 minutes talking about the healthcare debate --

CUOMO: Did you call her Sanders on purpose?

GREGORY: I'm sorry, Elizabeth Warren.

CUOMO: Was it -- was it a mistake? Because it was pretty -- it was pretty clever.

GREGORY: No. It was a mistake. But the point is, he went after them both on how you're going to pay for it, on where he differs, on defending what he did in the Obama administration.

So, he had some of that fight. He looked steadier. I think Democrats wanted to see that if he had that kind of viability. That was a big take away from me.

CUOMO: I agree with him, what I was watching before I did my show. Disagreement? Anybody think Biden didn't raise the game?

SABRINA SIDDIQUI, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: I think Joe Biden certainly showed a lot more fire. He was less on the defensive than he has been in some of the previous debate nights.

It was the first time that he shared the stage with Senator Elizabeth Warren who comes off as a much more effective messenger for the progressive wing of the Democratic Party than Bernie Sanders, even though they share a lot of the same --

CUOMO: Why, why is she better?

SIDDIQUI: -- idea. She delivers it with a great deal of clarity. I think she had a really strong line when she said, I've never met any American who likes their health insurance companies, for example. That's something that will stick with people in terms of why she's offering these big, bold proposals.

And that's still the debate that played out, whether or not they want to really lead a grassroots progressive movement or whether Democratic voters are more driven by that incremental change, that steady hand that Joe Biden and some of the more moderate candidates are advocating.

CUOMO: All right, so Elaina, play to that, but almost anybody speak it up tonight?

ELAINA PLOTT, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, I would actually push back thence against that a bit because I think --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: The Warren part or the Biden?

PLOTT: The Warren part. Because I think what shows when she goes up against Joe Biden is her consistent unwillingness to admit that her plan, her Medicare for all plan, which is actually Bernie Sanders' plan, would raise taxes on the middle class and she cannot say that outright.

It's the reason that this debate has dominated the beginning of every single Democratic debate we've had thus far. If her answer is that, yes, it will raise taxes on the middle class but the net effect of you paying less for your health care means that this won't be as problematic as it might seem. She has to trust Americans to digest that on their own but she won't say it.

GREGORY: I actually agree with both of you. First of all, I think Elizabeth Warren is a really good debater. I think she's poised. I think she's strong. I think she both has, she can take the fight but she's also, as you said, is just an excellent sympathizer of the progressive youth. She's a --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: A lot smoother.

GREGORY: Right. And by the way, she's a lot smoother than Joe Biden in these settings. I mean, Kamala Harris is very good, too. But I thought Elizabeth Warren was very good.

But there's no question that where reality meets these plans is a big chasm right now. And the truth is, to spend 40 minutes on -- on, you know, in the weeds policy about health care, something we're not going to remember in the morning.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: They keep doing it. Now a little bit of it is that's the responsibility of the journalists, right?

GREGORY: Yes.

CUOMO: And they got a great panel up there asking questions. But it does make me wonder if these people see the forest for the trees. You know, they're, like, talking about, why I can keep this one, you're going to lose that one, this one is incremental, might be mine is buying, and yours they have to opt in. And meanwhile, they're sitting appearing for fight with a guy who is just holding an axe.

GREGORY: Yes.

CUOMO: On the other side of the thing, whose whole thing on health care is, you're a socialist bum, and mine will be better.

PLOTT: And it wasn't until Kamala Harris that she hadn't brought up Donald Trump in that respect, up until that point it was as though every Democrat on that stage was only running against each other and there was no general election on the horizon at all.

So, I do think that Senator Harris deserves some credit for being the first one to say hi, remember, Donald Trump, he exists and he wants to gut all of this.

SIDDIQUI: Some of the biggest applause lines were when some of the candidates said, look, when we're spending all this time attacking one another, the person who has the most to gain is President Donald Trump. CUOMO: Well, that bolted up when from the part I saw, and tell me if

there was something that bested this later in the debate, but when Julian Castro took what -- I'm sorry, it is a cheap shot at Joe Biden.

[22:04:59]

I've been on stages like that. It is not easy to hear you, let alone somebody who's down there. And he made an obvious reference to his age.

GREGORY: Well, when he says, did you forget what you said just two minutes ago that you're contradicting yourself about -- yes.

CUOMO: It's got to be an age crack.

GREGORY: Yes. It's also that Biden has been misremembering, forgetting details.

PLOTT: But I don't think he actually did there.

(CROSSTALK)

GREGORY: No. He didn't that -- I don't know that -- yes.

PLOTT: No. Julian Castro is wrong, not only was it a horrible cheap shot --

CUOMO: Right. Joe was drawing the distinction of -- Biden was drawing a distinction about cancer patients --

PLOTT: Right.

CUOMO: -- and whether they get in automatically or not based on need. But what does that do for Castro? I mean, he came off small in that.

GREGORY: Yes. I mean, I think Castro and some of these others who are on the wings have to find a way to break through. Kamala Harris found a way in that first debate and then it did, she did drop back after that.

You know, I think Castro has been a more durable and interesting candidate than people would have thought in the beginning. I don't think this was a good night for him.

Look, President Trump is a pretty good political analyst and he said this evening because only he would do this just like hold forth with reporters and say, yes, I think it's probably going to be the three by the end, you know, it's going to be Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden. We'll see if Joe Biden can pull it through.

That tension between older establishment white politician and newer --

CUOMO: Both.

GREGORY: -- and the newer progressive white politician -- right. Right. Bernie Sanders doesn't qualify for that, except being so progressive and Warren.

I mean, I think that is going to be the fundamental tension. And I will say at the end of this I still think, despite the flashpoint over how you're going to pay for this kind of health care, I didn't think we saw the Elizabeth Warren/Joe Biden matchup that people were expecting.

CUOMO: You know what I think part of that is a function of, I want your take on this, Sabrina, is that, it's easy to say they're going to go at it. When you are standing next to somebody, it is different than talking about them.

Looking them in the face and saying all the things that you said about me is not as easy. No matter how hungry you are. So, it's always a little more muted. Like they said John Yang was going to do something tonight that nobody has ever done before Andrew Yang. What was that?

SIDDIQUI: And these candidates have learned time and again that it's best not to tell them your attack --

CUOMO: Right.

SIDDIQUI: -- before the debate. But I think to David's point, when you're looking at people like Julian Castro and some of the other candidates who have been lagging in the polls, they really have few opportunities to make an impact.

Now, that may have not been the most effective way to do so. But even Senator Amy Klobuchar who's a Minnesota nice came out swinging tonight. And I think that with the qualifications for these debates the thresholds becoming more and more difficult, that this may be the last time that some of these candidates have the opportunity to face the American public on the debate stage. So, everyone is looking for that moment --

CUOMO: Yes. There's practicality at play.

SIDDIQUI: There's a -- whether or not you land the moment is a separate --

(CROSSTALK)

GREGORY: But it's also how it's set up. I mean, I do think the moderators wanted them to go after each other.

CUOMO: Right.

GREGORY: They hung back a little bit. But also, the moderators here have not been trying to pit them against each other as much as you might expect.

CUOMO: Right. And look, it is a -- it's a competition. It's a competitive environment. And you guys reward opposition. You just do. That's what people resonate off of after these debates. The got you. So, we'll see what happens see.

Let's take a quick break. Come on, debate round three. Who's going to be there? What does it mean? Next.

[22:10:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. We're back with our A team. We have Elaina Plott. We have Sabrina Siddiqui. We have David Gregory. You know, the best conversations are always in the commercial. Not tonight. You were saying just before we came on air that there is a measure for Joe Biden that you believe he needs to reach. What is it?

GREGORY: I think he's spending so much of his time on the defensive. I don't think he has his progressive voice yet other than saying don't forget I stood by Barack Obama for eight years. He's saying, well, I can beat Trump, I can work with Republicans and I'm not as bad as the progressives say. I'm actually more progressive than you think.

I don't think he's found his groove. I was thinking about what has tonight and this debate been about? A lot of it is about progressive passion on the issue of guns and immigration. And countering Trump on trade, on health care.

That's important at this stage of the game because more and more progressive voters who are going to be out there are starting to pay attention, but so are less passionate voters who are just trying to take everybody's measure.

And I'm just not sure he's found his voice. I think he found some fight tonight. He steadied himself. But I still think he's got a way to go as a front-runner to really find that voice that captures all sides of this.

CUOMO: Finesse point on David, Sabrina, is, does he need to find a progressive voice, OK, or is a proxy for that in terms of a distinguishing characteristic.

It doesn't have to be something personal because isn't this going to be an identity politics election where you're going to have to prove that you are a positive opposite to Donald Trump, and who he is as a person is going to have to be every bit as important as your plan for health care?

SIDDIQUI: And that's been at the core of Biden's argument thus far on the campaign trail, that we can debate all these high-minded policy issues but there are a lot of Americans who think that the world is on fire and want to see change in the White House.

And there's an urgency of this moment when it comes to the character of the president in office right now and where we should be as a country.

But to David's point, you saw Biden do this a little bit tonight where he tried to play up the Obama record, heard him say about Senator Warren, she's for Bernie, I'm for Barack, when the topic turned to immigration, he pointed out that something like DACA, the program for DREAMers, hadn't been done in this country before. But he would probably benefit from running more aggressively on the

Obama record. And pointing out when they're talking about health care how for the first time in this country's history under the Obama administration you did have a government-run health care plan.

When the topic turns to tough on crime bill, he could point out that the first major criminal justice reform in recent years happened under the Obama administration's watch. They did make a big push after Sandy Hook for gun control. They didn't get there. But that's where he hasn't really gone. Because he spent a lot more time trying to hit back at his opponents and on the defensive.

GREGORY: Well, also because progressives want more.

CUOMO: Right.

GREGORY: They're like, yes, you know, you said a lot of things but you didn't get gun through.

Our politics are so small right now. One of the things you got -- and I think Warren is doing this well. I think Bernie Sanders is doing well. You got to speak to people's pain. Those people in the key states who might have been Obama voters who came for Trump who want to have their pain addressed in some fashion, and Biden's got that capacity.

[22:15:06]

CUOMO: So, Elaina, we had the Wizard of Oz gave me this great numbers the other night that he pulled out of the polls. That, Democrats who say my main concern is beating Trump, Biden is very high.

And my suggestion was well, he's got to prove that he's the fighter who can win. Because this is going to be a very basic fight for the soul of America election. I really believe that. I don't think it's going to be won on policy other than the policy of who we are and what we're about.

PLOTT: Right. And that's why I think Biden being on the defensive is such a crucial metric for understanding where he is coming up short. Biden hasn't, if you think about it, articulated yet why he is running for president.

I think any speech you listen to of his, any time he gives a speech on the debate stage, it is never quite clear to voters, I think, why he feels now the time is right for him to run for president.

You have somebody like Cory Booker talking about a movement he wants to start. And you know, you can be like Amy Klobuchar, and say a lot of this, you know, bold messaging, and it doesn't really jive with me or whatever.

But the thing is Biden, it's like he's getting up there as though he was preordained to run for president and he's just trying to deflect as many attacks as he can rather than articulate the positive message of why 2020 is the time for him to be in the White House. CUOMO: Is that a phase change for him, that first he's got to winnow

the field and weather the attacks, and then as it gets smaller, you move into that phase of saying here's what I'm going to do next against the next debate?

GREGORY: Yes. But I also think we're in a time and certainly in a Democratic race where there's such a focus on policy. I mean, we see it in our -- we see it in our media. A lot of the depth around policy positions. People want specific answers.

But really, what he wants to say is, I want to get back to our regularly scheduled program in America. And you know, one of the things that Obama benefited from when he was running, was that he embodied change in a lot of ways, first African-American president but he also represented change in how America would face the rest of the world.

Americans were tired of how much tumult there was in the world because of war and how America was projected around the globe. And I think that's where Trump is vulnerable now.

The world is tired, Americans are tired, a lot of them, about how this is all playing. He's also got to tap into that. And I do think he's done some of that by saying, look, you know, it's a fight for the soul of who we are and getting back to that basic identity. But I think on the debate stage, at least he's getting caught up on a lot of where he has to defend.

CUOMO: Right.

GREGORY: The record and take the progressive agenda.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Here's the thing. I mean, I just, I can't feel it any more strongly than I do. I've just been around this too long and seen too much of it and known Trump too well.

He has to know that he has not grown the tent. He has to. I don't care what he says about his internal polling. If it's so strong, he should show it to us. That will never happen. That proves his point.

It has to be a war of attrition. A war of attrition is fought one way in politics, which is you stink, that is the only way it goes. You're going to be on an identity basis. Who's better, me or you, as people, as what we project, to this country.

That means that Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren or whomever they come up with has to find a way to call out who I am and get tough without coming off as more of the same. That is a tough trick against somebody who will not play clean from the minute the gun goes off.

SIDDIQUI: And think about it from just this week, you had polling here at CNN show that 60 percent of Americans do not think that Donald Trump deserves a second term.

CUOMO: Still got to beat him.

SIDDIQUI: And what that reinforced, to your point, is that Donald Trump has a base. He doesn't have a coalition.

CUOMO: That's right.

SIDDIQUI: And you need to put together a coalition in order to win a presidential election. In 2016, he was able to cobble together enough independents who swung toward Republicans and keep suburban women who held their nose and said, we'll see if the presidency changes him.

The 2018 midterms you saw that pendulum swing back toward Democrats with suburban women, with independents, so whoever it is, whether it's Joe Biden, whether it's Elizabeth Warren, whether it's Bernie Sanders or any of the other candidates who are on the margins.

Those are the people that they need to target. Those are the people that they need to reach. Because, clearly, they are within grasp of the Democratic Party. That's what we saw in 2018, which was very much a referendum on the president.

CUOMO: Right. But if that's the fundamental question, the proposition, that this president is unfit, that you are not what we want as a president, you have to make that case in a very specific way. And it's not that you have better ideas for policy.

PLOTT: And you know what's interesting is, I have covered so many Trump rallies at this point this year, I never hear voters tell me that they're afraid of Joe Biden. They never say the word, afraid, of course. But I hear Elizabeth Warren -- Elizabeth Warren's name over and over as somebody who, to your point, has a coalition.

I remember having one voter tell me in Manchester, New Hampshire, a few weeks ago, Elizabeth Warren is a talker like Donald Trump is. I said, what do you mean by that? And she said, I think she could get on the debate stage and blow it right back at him.

And that's the sort of thing that, you know, the esoteric nature of policy debates dissolves in that moment.

[22:194:57]

If you have somebody like Elizabeth Warren who is a talker in this voter's words, and can distill, you know, succinctly for the American people, why he has uprooted the norms and standards of this country and what she will do to bring them back, but more importantly, why he speaks, as you said, what he is going to be saying to her.

GREGORY: I have a certainly different take on that. I absolutely agree. But I think what you're saying, Chris, is right. Which is, that the misconception is somehow you can give it as good as he gives it and that's going to help. I mean, Hillary Clinton won those debates.

CUOMO: Right.

GREGORY: And she lost the election. So that doesn't matter. I mean, she did. I mean, does anybody think she didn't win those debates? So, the idea that you're going to win on points in a debate, look, Elizabeth Warren has one advantage, and that she sounds like Donald Trump.

She did tonight on the issue of trade. She went after multi -- you know, corporations who are happy to send jobs overseas. She sounded like Trump. She has the benefit of being able to mirror some of that and say I can actually get something done.

CUOMO: And you know she is disgusted by him. I think that's important for people in the Democratic Party.

(CROSSTALK)

PLOTT: It's that visceral sort of --

CUOMO: Because I hear it all the time.

PLOTT: Seeping out of her.

CUOMO: The criticism I get from that party on a regular basis is why do you even have them on? You know, why did you even say that this was good what he did?

GREGORY: Right.

CUOMO: He is a disgusting person. You hear it all the time. Steve Cohen the other night, the congressman from Tennessee, are you going to work with him trying to get guns done? You can't work with this man, he's the worst human being we've ever had in the -- there are a lot of them that feel that way. You must harness that if you're going to be that person, no?

SIDDIQUI: Well, I think that there's the question of temperament and you also saw Beto O'Rourke, for example, tonight point to the El Paso shooting. Of course, that's his hometown and talk about this moment in terms of race relations, in terms of immigration.

And to David's point, there's also the question of how do you reach some of the independent-minded voters, or people who voted for Trump on an economic message? And the key to that is pointing out that his policies aren't actually benefiting the people who voted for him. And so, you saw some --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: They think he feels like they --

SIDDIQUI: You saw some of the case go there on trade. Well, that's where he should really hit hard on the issue of tariffs, that the economy which had been doing well is facing potentially another downturn in part because of this escalating trade war that the president has made.

(CROSSTALK) CUOMO: If they can harness the emotion as well. What the president did brilliant brilliantly, OK, sorry, what he did, is that he had people he had no natural connection to. He represents what they see as threatening. You know, he checks every box of an elitist. But he sold them on the proposition, I feel how you feel.

GREGORY: Right.

CUOMO: I'm angry at the same things you're angry at.

PLOTT: And that's why I think you see farmers right now in report after report tell journalists that even though these tariffs are quite objectively hurting them, they still vote -- they still don't want to vote for the guy.

GREGORY: Right.

PLOTT: They say, you know, maybe a little short-term hurt is good for long-term gain. What does that mean economically? I think it's kind of nonsense. But it does get into what you're saying. There is a visceral attachment there that economic realities aren't going to dispel.

GREGORY: There's also -- a lot of the Trump haters, liberals, who are giving you that feedback think because they believe that he's such a horrible human being that no one would sacrifice their principles and actually vote for him again.

PLOTT: Yes.

GREGORY: And this is where they don't remember that people compartmentalize about politicians all the time. If they think he has other redeeming qualities.

The most effective part of what Donald Trump does as a leader is play the outsider. Even as president of the United States, it's remarkable. That he campaigns against the rest of the government. He can't keep anybody in a job, and yet, somehow, he's still fighting as the outsider.

But let's remember, he got voters that Barack Obama got. And Elizabeth Warren can get those. Biden has a chance to get them, too. Bernie Sanders, too.

This is where I think it's going to be narrow. We know it's going to be narrow. We got a base here, we got a base here, we got independent voters. But you have movable voters who are think are paying attention to where are they feeling pain, where are they thinking that institutions, their companies, or the government, is not getting it done for them?

CUOMO: We also know that there's a fundamental disconnect between people's appetite for policies that are about government largesse even if they would benefit them.

By that I mean, you know, the working man or woman may be benefited from a single-payer plan. But they feel like it's too expensive. Even though they would be the beneficiary of the plan. And that's something to remember in terms of the visceral versus the intellectual. Is that you're better off with this in politics than this.

Seven days out of seven. And I still think that the problem with the granular stuff, I know in the primary you have that kind of fight and you move toward the center and the general, this is a different world that we're living in right now.

And I think every day that's spent by Democrats not showing that they get how people feel about this president, about this country, but that they have great ideas, is that they waste it.

SIDDIQUI: I think it depends. I think that's absolutely true. And Donald Trump has tapped into people's racial anxieties, economic anxieties but he did try to repeat that messaging around immigration --

CUOMO: Yes.

SIDDIQUI: -- the scare tactics and fear mongering in 2018 to very little success. And Democrats succeeded by not playing his game.

CUOMO: True.

[22:24:59]

SIDDIQUI: By not taking the bait and staying focused on pre-existing conditions and health care. Which reinforces that for a lot of voters going to the polls, top issues are very much still, jobs and the economy and health care.

CUOMO: Understood. All right. Elaina, Sabrina, David, thank you very much. We're going to do a quick break and we'll get back to our debate coverage. Stay with CNN.

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CUOMO: All right. More of our continuing coverage on the debate. How about this? How big a night is this? You know, I'm anti-hype, but this was supposed to be whether or not Biden could take on Warren. He was spending a lot of his night doing this. A little bit for you and a little bit for you. A little bit for you. It was one-on-two a lot of the night.

GREGORY: It was. And I think, you know, we're in a moment of our coverage, and I'm kind of taking in 2020 coverage thinking about 2016 how early on the Republican side things settled in for Trump and didn't really change and wondering if that's going to happen here. Is it really as dynamic as we think it might be?

So, I think these early impressions really do matter. And I think a lot of voters especially now after the summer, maybe it's not just the activists who are watching the first couple of debates. Now it's people with more general interesting saying, OK, let's see what's what here, who's who. I think it is a big night. I think it's a smaller field. It's not two

nights. I think that matters. I think this field can't narrow soon enough. It needs to narrow further for the good of the party.

So, I think it is a big night in taking the general measure. And an important night for Biden. I'm not sure how large it looms, yes. I think we in the media are going to define that over the next couple days for people, honestly.

CUOMO: Well, the debate is obviously coming to an end. Let's do this. Let's take a quick break and then we'll see how it all panned out and give you the best analysis we can. Stay with CNN.

[22:30:00]

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