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CNN TONIGHT

Trump's Defense Team Looks At John Bolton's Claim As Nonsense; John Bolton Criticized By His Former Colleagues At Fox; John Bolton Gets Smeared By Fox News After Book Gets Leaked; NPR Reporter Removed From Pompeo Trip; Remembering The Legendary Kobe Bryant. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired January 27, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Lots of news on the impeachment trial and we're going to catch you up on all of the big headlines.

Day two of arguments by President Trump's defense team. One of the president's lawyers claiming the charge of obstruction of Congress against Trump is an attack on the separation of powers, and an abuse of power by Congress.

The president's team tiptoeing around the elephant in the room, a New York Times report that the draft manuscript of John Bolton's upcoming book says Trump told him U.S. military aid to Ukraine was being frozen until Ukraine investigated Joe Biden.

So, will Bolton be called as a witness? At times it was hard to tell who was on trial. President Trump, or the Bidens. The president's lawyers launching a full-throated attack on Joe Biden and his son Hunter.

Also, tonight, remembering Kobe Bryant, the legend of the Los Angeles Lakers.

But first, President Trump's impeachment trial. Defense attorney Alan Dershowitz dismissing the report of the new Bolton revelations of a quid pro quo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, TRUMP IMPEACHMENT ATTORNEY: If a president, any president, were to have done what the times reported about the content of the Bolton manuscript that would not constitute an impeachable offense.

Let me repeat. Nothing in the Bolton revelations, even if true, would rise to the level of an abuse of power, or an impeachable offense.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: So, joining me now, CNN's Shimon Prokupecz, also former

prosecutor Elie Honig, and presidential historian Timothy Naftali. Good to have all of you. Thank you so much. Let's see.

Elie, let's start with you. Let's talk about Alan Dershowitz, saying even if Bolton's manuscript is accurate, it's not an impeachable offense. Is that a smart defense?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No, it's the defense of the day. Alan Dershowitz's standard team is to be whatever suits my purposes today. No. How could it be? How could it be OK for a president to do -- again, the question was assuming the truth of John Bolton's manuscript, how could it be OK for a president to say I want you to investigate my political rival, in exchange for military aid? If that's not impeachable, I don't know where we are.

LEMON: Yes. So, Tim, the Bolton news is explosive because reportedly it says that Trump didn't want the U.S. aid going to Ukraine unless Zelensky agreed to investigate the Bidens and of course announcing the investigation. I mean, that sounds like a quid pro quo to me but this is what we heard from team Biden -- team Trump today. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HERSCHMANN, TRUMP IMPEACHMENT ATTORNEY: It was definitely never a quid pro quo.

JAY SEKULOW, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: There was no quid pro quo.

PAT CIPOLLONE, COUNSEL TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: If the evidence doesn't show a quid pro quo, what does it show? There was no quid pro quo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What does the strategy say to you?

TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, the strategy says to me that they haven't thought it through and they're not prepared to walk you through the chronology of events the way that Adam Schiff and the other House managers did. They can't do it because it's damaging to them.

Here is the problem. If they were -- if they were actually trying to defend the president, they would use the approach that Nixon's defenders used, which was prove to us that it's the president who ordered this.

The Bolton revelation proves that and that's what's so problematic to them. Bolton can testify, if he will, that he -- that the president explained his rationale, he explained his motive and the motive is what makes this abuse of power, that's why it's a problem for the president's defenders.

LEMON: OK. So, he said if Bolton will testify, if he will testify, why doesn't he just say it? Is he -- is he under a gag order? I mean, he can say it in a book. The book comes out in March. Why can't he just go in front of a microphone and say it?

[23:05:04]

HONIG: Yes, he can. At this point there's nothing stopping him, and so that's really a question for John Bolton. I don't --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: What if he's under contract to, you know, -- I'm not sure was it Simon and Schuster who --

HONIG: Yes. He may be worried about some sort of contract with the publisher.

(CROSSTALK)

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: It was on NDA's, right? In some cases, maybe or not with that --

HONIG: I don't -- I mean, perhaps with Simon, I don't know.

PROKUPECZ: Yes.

HONIG: Not with Simon & Schuster I don't see that.

PROKUPECZ: Yes, right.

HONIG: No, Look, nothing is stopping him. He may have a personal interest, a private interest, a financial interest in not coming forward right now. But that's why he needs to be subpoenaed, he needs to be compelled to come in and testify.

PROKUPECZ: Yes.

LEMON: But I want to ask you, Elie, one more thing because I want to ask you about this. I wonder if he is waiving executive privilege with his tweet today. Let's put the tweet up because he talks about this.

He says "I never told John Bolton that the aid to Ukraine was tied to investigations into Democrats, including Joe Biden," and then he goes on and on and talking about termination. "If Bolton said this it was only to sell a book." Did he waive somehow executive privilege with this?

HONIG: Yes. So, by waiver we mean is he giving it up?

LEMON: Yes.

HONIG: And what the law says is you can't use it both as a sword and a shield. in other words, you can't say, hey, I'm Donald Trump, I was part of this conversation, here's what was said. And when the other person in the conversation, John Bolton, if it were going to be John Bolton, says, no, it's something different. I say sorry, you can't talk about it. I've given it up. By me saying what happened that opens the door for John Bolton to say what happened. LEMON: He's essentially, Shimon, calling John Bolton a liar but

Bolton is known as a copious note taker. He's always seen with a yellow legal pad. How important are these documents now do you think?

PROKUPECZ: The notes are very important. We've heard Adam Schiff talk about this even this morning, they want those notes because those notes they feel are going to be the accurate, it's going to portray the most accurate information, the most relevant information.

but the other thing, there are probably memos. I'm sure notes turned into memos and where are those memos? There may be memos at other agencies, other departments within the administration like the department -- like the DOJ with the attorney general. There's information that Bolton was raising concerns with the attorney general about Rudy Giuliani and other things that were going on. Perhaps the attorney general has memos.

So, there's a lot of notes, there's a lot of documents all over the administration that we have yet to see. And can reveal a lot of information.

LEMON: Well, the White House has all these documents, Tim, but they're holding them back. I mean, the president even bragged last week saying we have all this material. There's added pressure now for them to turn them over but --

NAFTALI: But let's -- well, let's talk about the politics of this, not just the law. The president's argument was that this is a witch hunt. Each day, with every new revelation, and every new effort to stonewall it becomes increasingly more difficult to argue that there's nothing there.

Even if Bolton can't testify because of the exertion of executive privilege the American people will see that the president is shutting him up. And what does that say? The president doesn't want this man to talk. Why not?

So, even though at the moment the president seems to be on the path to acquittal, these new roadblocks are increasing skepticism that the president is telling the truth. And that isn't just affecting people who don't like the president. That, I believe, is affecting swing senators.

LEMON: So, Shimon, if Bolton does testify, brings up players like Mulvaney, Pompeo, Giuliani, how does the Senate not -- won't they call them -- they have to call them to testify?

PROKUPECZ: It could happen, right? But first we have to get Bolton. Right? That's obviously the big thing. And I think if the senators here were to get Bolton, I think they would be very happy just having that and I don't know that they would necessarily go for more.

But think about it. If Bolton comes in and starts testifying about other people in the administration who were aware of this, who were doing things, who knew things were going on it could potentially open the door to other aspects of an investigation, perhaps the House will then want to open up new investigations, or there may be other parts of the government that are going to want to open investigations.

But obviously the big thing is you've got to get Bolton and then we'll see. It could happen.

LEMON: But, Elie, they know if they open up one door, it's going to open another and another.

PROKUPECZ: That's right.

HONIG: Yes. I mean, that's the threat that hanging over all of this. Which is if we get into witnesses, we're going to be fighting in courts, this is going to drag on --

(CROSSTALK)

PROKUPECZ: Right. That's the --

HONIG: -- and I think that's animating a lot of what we're seeing.

LEMON: Yes. But I'm saying it's going to open up another and another.

HONIG: Sure.

LEMON: Just like the longer this drags on, the more that comes out, and I'm sure every day they wake up and say what is going to come out today?

HONIG: Absolutely. I mean, that's motivating, I think, a lot of what we're seeing from Republicans.

NAFTALI: And senators don't like to be blindsided and the president's team has blindsided them.

LEMON: Thank you. Thank you all. I appreciate it.

Team Trump spending a lot of time today slamming Joe Biden and his son. What's Biden saying about that? You're going to hear him, next.

[23:10:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter under attack today at President Trump's impeachment trial. The defense strategy seems to be deflecting the charges against the president by smearing Biden.

I want to bring in CNN Political Reporter, Arlette Saenz who is covering the Biden campaign in Iowa. Hello, Arlette, you're in Iowa right now, and catch up -- and catch up with Joe Biden after you -- you caught up with Joe Biden, I should say, after his campaign event this evening. What did he say about Trump's defense team going after him and his son?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Don, I asked Joe Biden that question several times over the course of the day and he really tried to brush off the questions. At one point just saying to me, are you kidding me?

But when he spoke to voters here in Iowa City, he talked about those Republican attacks on his son Hunter Biden and he told them that he can't -- he told voters that he can't hold a grudge going forward. Take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These guys are attacking me and my family. I get it. And the press corps with me, they're all good people following me, they keep asking me, you know, they brought up your son Hunter and they're doing this and that and the other thing.

[23:14:57]

Well guess what? I don't hold grudges because presidents can't hold grudges. Presidents have to be fighters but they also have to be healers. They have to be healers.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: So that was a bit of Joe Biden's message tonight but his campaign is also issuing a forceful defense to President Trump's defense team's comments about Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden.

His rapid response director Andrew Bates today telling us that "Here on Planet Earth the conspiracy theory that Bondi repeated has been conclusively refuted." He pointed to media reports that have refuted these ideas from President Trump.

And he added, "Joe Biden was instrumental to a bipartisan and international anti-corruption victory. It's no surprise that such a thing is anathema to President Trump."

Now this of course is all playing out as we are just six days to the Iowa caucuses, so we'll see how Joe Biden decides to respond to this any further here on the campaign as that impeachment trial plays out in Washington.

LEMON: My gosh, just six days, you just made it real for everybody, Arlette. During a stakeout today Republican Senator Joni Ernst had this to say about Biden and the Iowa caucus next week. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): Iowa caucuses are this next Monday evening. And I'm really interested to see how this discussion today informs and influences the Iowa caucus voters, those Democratic caucus goers, will they be supporting Vice President Biden at this point?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What's the Biden campaign saying about that, Arlette? SAENZ: Well, Don, Joe Biden actually tweeted about that just moments

ago. He said "Iowa caucus goers take note, Joni Ernst just spilled the beans. She and Donald Trump are scared to death I'll be the nominee." And he's encouraged people to go on February 3rd to caucus for him to make that a reality.

And this all plays in to the Biden campaign arguments that it is good for them when President Trump is out there criticizing taking on Joe Biden because it shows that the president is fearful of facing Biden in the general election.

Biden told us here in Iowa that every time that President Trump's campaign -- or defense team brings up his name that it gets him one more vote here in Iowa. We'll see if that becomes reality come Monday.

LEMON: Arlette Saenz in Iowa, thank you very much I appreciate that, Arlette.

I want to bring in now Ana Navarro and Kirsten Powers. Good evening. Dream team right here. Good to see both of you.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hello.

LEMON: Kirsten, I want to start with you. Pam Bondi spent nearly 30 minutes talking about the Bidens today, she started with a claim that's patently false. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, TRUMP IMPEACHMENT ATTORNEY: We would prefer not to be discussing this. But the House managers have placed this squarely at issue, so we must address it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Trump and his entire legal team have been talking about Joe and Hunter Biden for months. What's with this we'd prefer not to be discussing this B.S.?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I have no idea. They love to discuss it. She also said the president was impeached and Democrats want to remove him for raising a concern. That's literally what this is all about that the president just raised a concern.

So, I think that this was just sort of part and parcel for what we saw all day, basically, which was a bunch of nonsense, as far as I can tell. And the whole Biden conspiracy theory is exactly that, it's just a conspiracy theory that was cooked up a long time ago on the right and it's something that they, you know, that they have the nerve to actually bring to the Senate floor is kind of incredible.

LEMON: Yes. Ana, Bondi questioned Hunter Biden's qualifications for serving on the board of Burisma referencing a Washington Post headline. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BONDI: The Washington Post ran a story about it. It said, "The

appointment of the vice president's son to a Ukrainian oil board looks nepotistic at best, nefarious at worst." Again, the appointment of the president's son to a Ukrainian oil board looks nepotistic at best, nefarious at worst.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Ana, the Trump family making the case against nepotism?

NAVARRO: Yes. You know, I mean, it's just -- this has been a day which has been an exercise in hypocrisy and just withholding your disbelief, right? You've got Ken Starr arguing against impeachment.

You've got Alan Dershowitz arguing against himself. And you've got, you know, Pam Bondi arguing against nepotism from -- to defend a president who is the master of nepotism.

And look, nepotism is a real problem. It's a real problem in America, it's a real problem in American politics. You know what I wish the Biden campaign would do?

[23:20:01]

I wish they would come out with a full list of Democrats and Republicans whose kids and whose spouses and whose siblings work in lobbying shops in Washington or work in the administration.

Where do you think Rudy Giuliani's son works? Where do you think Bill Barr's son works? Do you think Sarah Huckabee Sanders would have gotten that job had her name not been that? Do you think Jared Kushner would be in the White House if not for nepotism? Do you think Ivanka Trump has the qualifications to be a senior adviser to the president?

So, you know, it takes so much gall and shamelessness. But this is not going to go away. This is a president who brought out womanizing against Donald -- against Hillary Clinton, a president who has over a dozen credible accusations of sexual harassment and assault against him and brought out womanizing against Hillary Clinton.

If Joe Biden is the nominee, he's going to pound him on this over and over and over again. I really wish Joe Biden said, you know what, tell you what, I'm going to call your bluff. I'm not a material witness. I don't like the president to say -- I was not in the room. But you want me to testify in exchange of Bolton?

You got it. And I wish he would sit there and he would read a list of all the senators whose kids have a job because of their last name, whose spouses have a job because of their last name. You know, it would be a long list.

LEMON: I don't --

NAVARRO: We might be there for another week.

LEMON: You almost slipped, I saw that, I heard that. Yes, it would be a long week, and probably a long month because they all do.

Listen, Kirsten, Pat Cipollone, another member of Trump's defense team wrapped up the evening with this. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CIPOLLONE: I was listening to Professor Dershowitz talking about the shoe on the other foot rule, and it makes a lot of sense. I would maybe put it differently. I would maybe call it the golden rule of impeachment. For the Democrats the golden rule could be do unto Republicans as you would have them do unto Democrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I almost fell out of my office chair when I heard that. Republicans had done just the opposite. Mitch McConnell has done just the opposite. This is pretty rich. As I said I almost fell out of my chair when I heard him. Kirsten?

POWERS: Well, I think it's --

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: And biblical.

POWERS: -- it's high level gaslighting. I mean, it really was today and listening to Ken Starr as well. I mean, they have to know what they're saying. They have to be doing it intentionally.

It's the only thing I can think of because is anybody lack that much self-awareness? Is that possible that the Republicans could actually think that they didn't treat Democrats terribly using the impeachment process and then, in fact, led by Ken Starr?

I mean, it was so crazy watching him talk about the so-called age of impeachment and sort of the horrors of impeachment and this process that's gotten out of control when he's the person who spun it out of control.

You maybe could make an argument that, I don't know, maybe this impeachment hearing wouldn't be happening if the Clinton impeachment hearing hadn't happened. Maybe it did lower the bar. I don't know.

I think this is an impeachable offense but take responsibility for what you did and stop acting like, how did this ever happen? I just can't imagine how this happened to the country.

LEMON: Yes, thank you both. I've got to run. Good to see you.

NAVARRO: Surreal.

POWERS: Thank you.

LEMON: I know, I keep thinking we're going to wake up and --

NAVARRO: Thank you. LEMON: -- you know, OK --

NAVARRO: And do what?

LEMON: That's a good question.

Fox News personality saying today nobody cares about what John Bolton has to say. Really? Then why was he a paid Fox contributor for 11 years? Because nobody cares what John Bolton has to say. How Fox News is covering the Bolton revelations. Next.

[23:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Before John Bolton was national security adviser, he was a paid Fox News contributor but now he is a pariah at Fox in the wake of revelations from his upcoming book that could be damaging to President Trump in the impeachment trial.

CNN's Chief Media Correspondent, Brian Stelter has the story.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: When the Ukraine scandal first erupted last fall Fox and Friends host Steve Doocy understood the stakes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE DOOCY, HOST, FOX NEWS: If the president said, you know, I'll give you the money but you've got to investigate Joe Biden, that is really off the rails wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: Off the rails wrong said the Trump promoter but he also yearned for some other explanation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: If it's something else, you know, it would be nice to know what it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: The Fox friends came up with a counternarrative that supported Trump, but now Bolton is a threat. According to the New York Times Bolton's forthcoming book says that Trump did hold up aid to Ukraine to force a Biden probe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, HOST, FOX NEWS: What are your thoughts?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: Now here's the twist. Bolton was a paid Fox News contributor for 11 years. He left the network in 2018 to go work for Trump. Brian Kilmeade pointed that out on Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN KILMEADE, HOST, FOX NEWS: He's always been upstanding and very candid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: Bolton is honest, he said, but now the Fox machine is sowing doubt about a former colleague.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got to look at the timing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:29:59]

STELTER: The liberal anti-Fox group media Matters called out Doocy's shifting perspective about Trump and Ukraine. And the president re- tweeted an other Fox News personality, Dan Bongino, saying "nobody cares about what Bolton has to say."

That is perhaps the inevitable end point for Trump's defenders and Fox is the stage to say it, like Reince Priebus did earlier this month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REINCE PREIBUS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Guess what, sometimes the best defense is the so what defense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Sorry. Brian Stelter is here with me to discuss. Also, Amanda Carpenter -- you got to love it -- and Wajahat Ali. Boy, I've been watching --

STELTER: So what?

LEMON: So what? I've been watching it. I mean, it's a total 180. There may be one member there who wasn't a big Bolton fan but it hasn't changed his tune. But Brian, thank you. Bolton would -- thank you all for joining us -- Bolton was once a very trusted member of the Fox News empire. Now, he's on the outside.

They got to circle the wagons. They got to protect the president. They got to protect their audience from him now.

STELTER: I think that's basically what's happening with some exceptions. You know, look, you got Lou Dobbs now calling Bolton a tool for the left, coming up with new conspiracy theories. You're certainly seeing this divide, Trump versus Bolton, and most of these right wing commentators are siding with Trump.

LEMON: Yes, but it's interesting because this is what, Amanda, what Bolton stood for wasn't exactly what Trump ran on so there are some people there who --

STELTER: Tucker Carlson for example.

LEMON: Tucker Carlson has been very consistent, very steady. He's not a fan of Bolton.

STELTER: That's right.

LEMON: Wasn't a fan, is not one now. But I mean, Fox is clearly moving the goal posts here with what Bolton has to say about the president's conduct. It's another form of gaslighting, yes?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes and here's why it's happening. There are so many personalities at Fox that are personally invested in Donald Trump's success.

And so when they have someone that they used to work alongside, they probably share a lot of values with in terms of politics, says something's wrong here, they have to try to find a way to disqualify that person.

And what you're seeing now is that you have personalities saying that John Bolton somehow is now a tool of the left, and they're saying this because they can't grapple with their conscience, right.

They're so invested in this Trump thing, they've brought their viewers along for years saying nothing's going on with Russia, nothing's going on with this Ukraine thing and here you have John Bolton, someone Fox News viewers have looked to and trusted for advice for 11 years, saying yes, this was bad.

LEMON: I was -- tonight, you know, the stack of monitors, T.V. monitors in my office and my executive producer and I, we were talking about, you know, the Iowa caucuses and whatever, the coverage or whatever.

And I had the T.V.s on and I was looking up at the Fox channel and I just put my hand (inaudible) and said my god these people who were touting the president hiring Bolton and whatever and now they're completely trying to discredit him.

I mean, Fox personality, Wajahat, Dan Bonginno tried to make the argument that nobody cares about what Bolton has to say. I mean, we know that President Trump certainly cares. But by repeating that mantra they are trying to minimize anything that Bolton might eventually testify to.

WAJAHAT ALI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. This is state T.V. for orange Julius Caesar, right. And if John Bolton is the instrument of the left, then why did Fox News pay him $560,000 to be a commentator? I would love some of that money.

And if they don't care, then let's have Simon and Shuster just drop the book this week. Let's just do it. And if they don't care, then you know, let's have John Bolton just be free to go on your show, Don Lemon, and just talk about what he saw and what he says he saw in the memoir.

LEMON: If nobody cares let him talk.

ALI: Yes, let him talk, right. You have the majority in the Senate. You got 70 percent of Americans who want witnesses. You just need four Republican senators to do the right thing. Let the man talk. You got nothing to lose, Don, right.

It's a perfect phone call, absolutely beautiful. I did nothing wrong. All right, you have nothing to lose. You have everything to gain by having John Bolton, this discredited lefty tool who you paid $560,000. This mustachioed, you know, Yosemite Sam who is your National Security adviser, this crank. Why don't you have him talk?

And the reason why they don't have him talking is because this is a bombshell. I mean, we're getting more and more bombshells. Number one, he proves the singular narrative that Trump withheld the aid to get Ukraine to interfere in the elections.

And also, just a couple of hours ago, apparently in the book, him and Bill Barr discuss the fact that they were concerned that Trump was actually courting or working with these authoritarian leaders, Erdogan and China and actually trying to remove some of these companies from sanctions because it benefitted him.

And Bill Barr was concerned; Mike Pompeo was concerned, to quote Ambassador Sondland, Trump's ambassador, "everyone was in the loop." So let's have Yosemite Sam talk.

LEMON: All right. I got to get this in. Brian, I also want to ask you about a decision made by the State Department to removing an NPR reporter from one of Mike Pompeo's upcoming trips.

[23:34:58]

So, give us the details on this, Brian, because this looks like backlash because a reporter -- tough questions from another NPR reporter. Mary Louise Kelly asked Pompeo last week. What's going on here?

STELTER: Right. She interviewed him a few days ago, asked about Ukraine. Pompeo hated it. He shouted at her afterwards according to Kelly. NPR said we will not be intimidated.

And then today, NPR's reporter was supposed to go with Pompeo to Ukraine in a few days, gets kicked off the plane. Now, the State Department has not commented on why but NPR confirms that this person was (inaudible). She's no longer going on the trip. She's no longer on the plane.

This has all the hallmarks of retaliation by the State Department against NPR for simply doing good old-fashioned reporting. It makes me wonder, Don, what country is this? This the kind of B.S. you would see in third world countries, not in the United States. The State Department, Mike Pompeo should be standing up for the press and not pulling this kind of tricks. LEMON: Thank you Brian. Thank you Amanda. Thanks Waj. Appreciate it.

Next, remembering Kobe Bryant. The country mourning the Lakers legend.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

LEMON: Basketball fans and people across the country remembering Kobe Bryant who lost his life in a helicopter crash yesterday along with his 13-year-old daughter, seven others, including young athletes, mothers, and a coach.

Well, tonight here in New York City the iconic Empire State building lit up in purple and gold in honor of the Lakers legend. I want to bring in now Roger Mason Jr.

He is a retired NBA player who is the former deputy executive director of the NBA Players Association. And we are so happy to have you here. Thank you so much. I really appreciate --

ROGER MASON JR., RETIRED NBA PLAYER: Yes, no problem

LEMON: I know that it's a tough time. You have a story about when you were playing, you were playing with the Spurs, you had a game one night against the Lakers and your mom called you and said she had a few things to tell us that she wanted to tell you about, right?

MASON: Yes.

LEMON: So tell us about that.

MASON: Yes. You know, I mean, I was just reminded of it. So, I was playing for the Spurs and game day, so my mom was calling about tickets and this person needs to come and that person needs to come and I just said to my mom, you know, I got Kobe tonight.

And so all the things that you're talking about, they don't really matter. And he just made you focus. You knew if you were going to be competing against him you needed to bring your "A" game because he was going to come with it.

And my mom told me today she takes that with her every day, you know, when she's got something to focus on she said, you know, I'll never forget when you said I got Kobe tonight and I think that just speaks volumes to what he meant for people to not only play basketball but, you know, people across all walks.

LEMON: You then worked with Kobe in your role with the NBA Players Association. Did you see a different side of him then because you weren't competing with him on the court? What was that like?

MASON: Yes, I definitely saw a different side of him. I remember vividly we were on an elevator going downstairs during the NBA lockout. And so, as players, the NBA family is very close and so we were trying to get back to work. And Kobe, you know, he had that same tenacity and he was like, all

right, man, enough is enough. You know, let's get back to it. Let's focus in. Let's get back on the court. So, you know, I'll never forget that elevator -- escalator ride down that hotel.

LEMON: Yes. So, Lebron spoke out tonight about his friend. Here's what he said. He said, "I am not ready, but here I go. I am heartbroken and devastated my brother." So, just this past Saturday night Lebron passed Kobe on the all-time scoring list against the 76ers.

What do you make -- it's tough to lose someone you love like this, especially someone you look up to. How does one someone like Lebron or anyone who's playing, how do you get back out there and do because this is such a physical and intense mental -- you carry your heart out there.

MASON: Yes. It's such a mental game and for someone like Lebron, I was fortunate to be his teammate and he respects the greats. He respects the people that paved the way before him. And a guy like Kobe was larger than life.

So to see a tragedy like this happen to our hero, to Lebron's hero, you just can't make any sense of it and you've got to kind of go to that mamba mentality that Kobe had to know that, you know, he would want Lebron to carry that torch. He would want Lebron to keep going.

LEMON: Yes. You know, I love the relationship that he had with Gigi or Gianna, right, 13-years-old and the stories that he told about, you know, how people would say, you need to have a son to carry on your legacy, and then she would, you know, jump in and say that's me. He tells some of the story. Let's watch it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOBE BRYANT, NBA LEGEND: The best thing that happens is when we go out and fans will come up to me and she'll be standing next to me, and they'll be like, hey, you got to have a boy. You and V got to have a boy, man. You need somebody to carry on the tradition, the legacy. She's like, oy, I got this. You don't have to worry about that. I got this. I'm like, that's right. Yes, you do. You got this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Listen, it says a lot about him as a father, but the relationship between a dad and their daughter, you know, mom and son have that relationship. But the dad and a daughter, they were together, at least, right?

[23:45:00]

MASON: Yes, I mean, it leaves you speechless. I have a 7-year-old daughter. And he was inspiring the way that he was parenting his kids and how he was making the time. And you saw him put in the work with his daughter on the court. And so it's heartbreaking to see that, but they were together. LEMON: Yes. I can only think, you know, the first thing I thought

was, I said, listen, this is -- there's no other way to describe it as shocking, horrific, terrible, you know. And I can't imagine what they were going through.

Kobe is gone, but Vanessa and her kids are here and I can't imagine losing your husband and your child. It's just horrific. What are you going to remember about your friend?

MASON: You know, the biggest thing about Kobe, I think, is -- I mean, I grew up idolizing him just like a lot of us basketball players. And so you remember the guy on the court, but you know, for a lot of us that know we have to transition and I've since retired.

Remembering how he's been as a father, how he's been as a coach for his kids, how he's been as an entrepreneur, and a man outside the game, those are the things that you remember. You know, everybody sees the tenacity on the court but the guy would go out of his way to give advice and some of the advice that he gave me I'll never forget.

LEMON: Here's how I can describe how everybody's feeling around the country. I had someone who I work with when I got to work tonight. They said this is the first time in a long time that I cried about somebody I didn't know, and that means you had a huge impact on a lot of people you didn't know. Thank you, Roger.

MASON: Absolutely.

LEMON: Bless you. Thank you very much. More on Kobe Bryant as tributes are pouring in tonight. Stay with us.

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[23:50:00]

LEMON: America's remembering Laker legend Kobe Bryant who died tragically yesterday in a helicopter crash along with his daughter and seven others. Joining me now is sportswriter and author Rick Reilly. Rick, appreciate you joining us. Thank you so much. How are you doing?

RICK REILLY, SPORTSWRITER AND AUTHOR: Okay.

LEMON: Thank you. You say that Kobe didn't live life, he attacked it. He swallowed it whole. You've got some great stories about being with him. Tell us what it was like.

REILLY: He really did, I mean, he was just, I mean, think of -- Don, think of the most aggressive buddy you have and then times it by 10. And that was what he was like. He let me spent a whole day with him once from the time he got up to the end of day.

I had no idea he got up at 3:00 to work out, 3:00 in the morning. And it was the most ridiculous work out I have ever seen. And we drove in his Ferrari, I remember, at 85 miles up the 405, and people are trying to keep up with him to hand me stuff for him to sign, and their on his side. And he just laughed through it all. He was just so driven to be

excellent. I remember one year he wanted -- one summer he wanted to improve his jump shot. And so he made a rule that he couldn't leave the gym until he'd made 1,000 jumpers that day.

Now, that's crazy. That's crazy hard. He just did everything like we were going to a fire. I remember later on he wanted to go scuba diving. He says you want to go scuba diving? Yes, let's go. Where are we going? Honduras.

Oh, it sounds great. But I'm going to do a shark -- you're going to do a shark cage dive with me, you know, where you get in the cage and then the shark -- I'm like, no. I can't go. I'm not going. And he was just -- so people ask me, you know, why was he taking choppers? He didn't wait for anything.

LEMON: Yes.

REILLY: He wanted to do it now.

LEMON: Well, you said he was missing out --

REILLY: Yes.

LEMON: You said he was missing out on his kid's life and he wanted to be more involved in his kid's life but he also wanted to continue to do what he did and which was, you know, he loved basketball. And he was spending a lot of time in traffic so, he started doing helicopters, right?

REILLY: Right, he did helicopters. And that's why he got up at 3:00 also like on days off, he gets up at 3:00, work out. I want to be there when my kids get up. He was really, really into his kids.

And I tell you, I've never seen L.A. like this. I mean, people are crying in restaurants and people are calling me crying. My own family is crying. And I think it's because, you know, we got to see the basketball, but we knew what was coming next.

I mean, he was going to be something amazing. He would always want to talk about his ad and marketing business. He wanted to talk about making films and producing music. He won an Oscar right out of the gate. This guy is a winner and a global icon and it was like he was born to do it. And then the idea of (inaudible) daughter died with him --

LEMON: But his name was also attached to L.A. He was in L.A. for so long. He's with the Lakers for so long and he's L.A. Laker, right, Kobe Bryant. And it was different --

REILLY: Can you think of another athlete.

LEMON: Hang on. And it was different then when you hear about this, you know, movie stars or singers or whatever. When something happens to them, it's different because sometimes, you know, maybe expect it or whatever, but they lead a different sort of lifestyle. They're not so connected to the city. They just happen to live there. He was a part of the city and that's why it's such a big deal.

[23:55:01]

LEMON: He came as a skinny 17 year-old.

LEMON: And then -- let me get this in and then you can answer because the NB postponed the first Lakers game scheduled for tomorrow at the Staples Center. The first non-weather related postponement since the Boston marathon bombing back in 2013.

I mean, that shows you just how profound this loss is for the team and the NBA and for the city. Go on Rick, sorry.

REILLY: Sorry. I was just saying he came here as a 17 year-old skinny kid and he had such a great work ethic. People think of L.A. as la-la- land and nobody works hard. This is a hard working town and he represented it.

I can't think of another athlete who represents their town more, was identified more with and beloved by a single town. All I can think if maybe Elway in Denver, Jeter in New York. But Kobe was here so long and so beloved.

You know, isn't -- Don, isn't life so fickle though? I can remember 1991, you see Magic Johnson announce he's got HIV and I remember just crying in my car thinking we're going to lose Magic Johnson inside of three years. And Magic, thank God, is robust and healthy. And now we lost Kobe who was bullet proof.

LEMON: Yes. I'm out of time, but thank you for coming on and what a loss, what a tragic loss. And our hearts --

REILLY: Huge.

LEMON: -- go out to his family. Our thoughts and prayers are with them, his wife and his family tonight. Thank you so much. And thank you for watching everyone. CNN's live coverage continues.

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