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U.S. Stocks Suffer Worst Day Since 1987 Crash; White House: Trump Doesn't Need to Be Tested; Ghana is Russia's New Troll Hub; Top Health Expert Says U.S. is 'Failing' Virus Testing. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired March 13, 2020 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining from around the world. I'm John Vause.

[00:00:40]

And from Capitol Hill to California, almost by the hour the American way of life is slowly grinding to a halt as officials take drastic measures to try and slow the spread of the coronavirus outbreak.

Not since World War II has this country seen this level of social disruption. The iconic theme parks, the very representation of American culture and aspiration, Disneyland and Disney World, are shutting down. New York's famed Broadway has gone dark, all productions suspended as of Thursday afternoon.

The mayor of New York has declared a state of emergency, warning by next week the number of confirmed cases in his city will reach 1,000.

Almost every major sporting event, from basketball to hockey, is now on hold. Across the nation, school children have been ordered to stay home. Universities are moving classes online.

Iconic television shows like "Family Feud" and "America's Got Talent" will continue production, but without a studio audience. Others, like the game show "The Price is Right" have opted for a two-week-long suspension.

And in some of the hardest-hit cities, a reminder, if ever one was needed, about the seriousness of this viral threat. National Guard troops are now on patrol.

And all of this is made so much worse by the fear and uncertainty, which is being driven, in large part, by a chronic lack of testing kits to determine precisely where the virus is and where it is not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It is a failing. Let's admit it. The fact is, the way this system was set up is that the public health component that Dr. -- that Dr. Redfield was talking about was a system where you put it out there in the public and a physician asks for it and you get it. The idea of anybody getting it easily, the way people in other countries are doing it, we're not set up for that. Do I think we should be? Yes. But we're not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Stock markets are being driven by emotion. And that emotion is fear, which sent the Dow Jones back to just 2,000 points short of where it was when Donald Trump took office.

One estimate has the monthlong sell-off wiping out of $11 trillion from the value of stocks. And U.S. futures look set to continue this trend when Wall Street opens later on Friday.

CNN's Clare Sebastian has more now on the Dow's freefall.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, mark your calendar. March the 12th, 2020, the day the U.S.'s longest ever bull market ended. And it was an extraordinary day of trading.

We went from a trading hold five minutes into the session, when the S&P 500 fell 7 percent, to even sharper losses by lunchtime. Then the markets wiped out more than half those losses after the Fed announced one and a half trillion dollars in short-term funding for banks.

But that burst of relief also evaporated, and then the Dow ended the day on its worst ever points drop and its biggest percentage drop since 1987. Well, the trigger for the day of selling was, of course, President Trump's announcement of a travel ban on visitors from Europe.

Airline stocks sold off sharply as the International Air Transport Association warned industry losses would now exceed their previous forecast of $113 billion for the year.

Markets were also rattled by a lack of clarity around that plan. The president had to clarify later on Twitter that it didn't affect cargo.

And investors continue to be disappointed by the ongoing lack of a comprehensive fiscal stimulus package from the Trump administration.

Still, looking at the market today, it's hard to see a policy measure from a government or a central bank that will calm these nerves. Traders are telling me until they see signs of the spread of the virus being under control, you can expect to see this historic volatility continue.

Clare Sebastian, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: And unlike previous global emergencies like the avian flu and Ebola, which saw world leaders working together, this time, European leaders are furious over the new U.S. travel restrictions aimed at the E.U.

Less than 24 hours from now, many from the European Union will be blocked from visiting the United States for 30 days. U.S. President Donald Trump says it will keep the coronavirus from spreading across the United States, although the virus is already here. E.U. officials were blindsided by the announcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC MAMER, EUROPEAN COMMISSION SPOKESMAN: The European Union disapproves of the fact that the U.S. decision to impose a travel ban was taken unilaterally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: President Trump's decision also blindsided American travelers in Europe. Many were left wondering if they'd be allowed to return home. CNN's Melissa Bell has the reaction there from Rome.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[00:05:05]

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chaos and fear tonight in Europe, after President Trump announces a 30-day ban on travel to the United States. From Paris to Berlin to Rome and Madrid, Americans are scrambling to get home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think a lot of people panicked last night when it wasn't clear that, like, American citizens could still return home. So I know a lot of people were freaked out and trying to change their flights, like, yesterday.

BELL: In Rome --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was pretty nervous about not being able to go home.

BELL: American citizens, permanent residents, and some immediate family members are exempt from the ban, but questions remain about how they will be screened upon their return.

In Paris, arriving Americans are concerned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were on the plane. When we left California --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything was fine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Everything was completely normal. As soon as we were in the air, we land and we get bombarded with messages from our families telling us Trump announced this, and you can't come back. And the end of the world and all that good stuff. So --

SEBASTIAN: The travel ban applies to 26 countries in Europe where people can move freely across international borders. Not included: Ireland and the United Kingdom.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One of the reasons the U.K., basically, has been -- it's got the border. It's got very strong borders. And they're doing a very good job. They don't have very much infection at this point, and hopefully, they'll keep it that way.

SEBASTIAN: But according to the latest statistics, the United Kingdom has more than 590 cases. President Trump's former homeland security adviser, Tom Bossert, tweeting the travel restrictions will have little value, that it's a poor use of time and energy. And while the European Union expressed disapproval of Trump's decision to impose the ban unilaterally and without consultation, President Trump is unapologetic.

TRUMP: We had to move quickly. I mean, when they raise taxes on us, they don't consult us. And I think that's probably one and the same.

SEBASTIAN: European leaders were pretty swift in their condemnation, pointing out that travel bans simply haven't proven very effective so far in bringing the outbreak under control.

Second of all, in pointing out that it is best shared practice and Cooperation that has worked best. And finally, the question of time when you consider how important it is not to make mistakes even as this pandemic progresses, take the case of Italy.

Three weeks ago on Friday there were fewer than three cases in this country. Today, more than 15,000, a country entirely in lockdown, and an outbreak nowhere near under control.

Melissa Bell, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Not only is their growing criticism of the president's ban on travel from Europe, but Donald Trump's own personal health choices have been criticized as reckless or ignorant, even downright dangerous.

There is credible evidence that the U.S. president has been, at the very least, exposed to the coronavirus on multiple times. And while other officials in similar circumstances have self-quarantined, Donald Trump is refusing to take similar measures.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We had dinner together in Florida in -- at Mar-a-Lago, with the entire delegation. And we'll find out what happens. I guess they're being tested right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, that's what I'm asking you. I'm asking you what update you can provide.

TRUMP: Let's put it this way, I'm not concerned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Just for the record, the person sitting in the chair next to the guy who may be infected with the coronavirus but is refusing to be tested, that's the prime minister of Ireland. Yes, Donald Trump is continuing to meet with world leaders, possibly exposing them to a deadly virus, for which right now there is no vaccine and no cure. Michael Genovese is the director of the Global Policy Institute at Loyola Marymount University. He is joining me this hour from Los Angeles.

Michael, it's good to see you. The White House did issue a statement explaining why the president will not be tested or isolated, despite his exposure. They're citing CDC guidelines here. And they go on to say, "Both the president and vice president had almost no interactions with the individual who tested positive." This is the Brazilian official. "And do not require being tested at this time."

CDC guidelines say, though, when it comes to self-quarantine, "The separation of a person or group of people reasonably believed to have been exposed to a communicable disease but not yet symptomatic from others who have not been so exposed to prevent the possible spread of the communicable disease."

There is a credible argument here to be made that, under federal law, the health secretary has the legal authority to force quarantine on the president of the United States, because he is right now a risk to the public health.

MICHAEL GENOVESE, DIRECTOR, GLOBAL POLICY INSTITUTE, LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIVERSITY: Well, the White House explanation is completely unpersuasive. And the president's playing ostrich. He's burying his head in the sand, rather than facing the reality.

I think it's part of both his own personal psyche, but also, it's kind of the bigger political question. He simply can't get his hands around this, can't accept that it's happening. And he's very personalized this, very much personalized this. How could this virus do this to me?

Virus is doing it to everyone. And the president is not immune from that. And it is irresponsible to take the position he's taking. And while, yes, he could be forced to be quarantined, that will not happen. He has to be the grown-up, and he has to do it himself. He has to get tested.

VAUSE: Add to this, the president is 73 years old, which is within an age range which makes him especially vulnerable to this virus. And for a guy who's a self-confirmed, what, germaphobe, this refusal to get any kind of medical advice just seems kind of pigheaded.

GENOVESE: Well, he's in denial, clearly. And he just -- he's not been able to face the political reality or the medical and healthcare reality that we are in a pandemic. It's a national crisis. It's an international, global crisis.

And he's worried about things like, as he said when he went to the CDC, where he went with a campaign cap on, and he's talking about how tests are available and that they're perfect tests, like my letter was perfect.

He's simply not focused on this crisis. Presidents need to focus like a laser beams on a crisis and serve the public. He's still worried about himself.

VAUSE: You mentioned the lack of testing kits. This seems to be emerging as one of, you know, the really big screw-ups early on by this administration. At 11:45 Thursday morning, Dr. Anthony Fauci from the White House coronavirus task force, he testified before Congress. About an hour later we heard from the U.S. president, talking about these testing kits. Here are both their answers. We start with Dr. Fauci.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: The system does not -- is not really geared to what we need right now, what you are asking for. That is a failing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A failing? Yes.

FAUCI: It is a failing. Let's admit it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

FAUCI: The idea of anybody getting it easily, the way people in other countries are doing it, we're not set up for that. Do I think we should be? Yes. But we're not.

TRUMP: We have a million tests out now. They're going to have, over the next few days, they're going to have four million tests out. And frankly, the testing has been going very smooth. If you go to the right agency, if you go to the right area, you get the test. Now, with that being said, as you know, millions are being produced. It's a brand-new thing that just happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: You know, there are two realistic explanations for this for Donald Trump. I think he's just outright lying about these testing kits to deliberately mislead the public, or he is incapable of understanding and absorbing facts or details which he believes reflect badly on him or his administration, or maybe it's a combination of both. But either way, it is dangerous in the midst of a pandemic to have misinformation out there. That is how people die.

GENOVESE: Yes. And we've had to face the very uncomfortable truth that the president is not up to the job. That it's too big for him, and this should not surprise us, because after three years of bashing science, after three years of budget cuts on health care; after years of saying that we're going to not fill positions in the pandemic response team; after letting all the Obama infrastructure that he built up on dealing with pandemics collapse, now we face this.

And I think the president is unable to face that he's wrong, especially because Obama was right. And also, the implication that it has such -- it will have such an impact on his electoral fortunes. I think it's just too much for him to deal with.

And so I think, psychologically, he is capable only of playing the ostrich. He can't face up to the reality. We need strong leadership now. We need someone who will speak truth to power, who will grab ahold of this and start showing some real leadership. The president has not been able to do that.

VAUSE: And there's no one in this administration right now, it seems, who will speak up to the president. But what we have meantime, with these campaign rallies, which are now on hold, Donald Trump has finally suspended his campaign rallies, at least for the time being. The same is true for the Democrats. There will be debates, but they'll be without cheering audiences.

This is good news for Joe Biden. On Wednesday, he did this speech. He outlined how his administration would deal with this crisis. Here's part of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No president can promise to prevent future outbreaks. But I can promise you this. When I'm president, we will be better prepared, respond better, and recover better. We will lead with science, listen to the experts.

Let me be crystal-clear. The coronavirus does not have a political affiliation. It will infect Republicans, independents, and Democrats alike.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: If you came down from Mars and didn't know who the president was and you looked at Donald Trump and Joe Biden, you'd guess it was Joe Biden.

GENOVESE: And what a study in contrast between the president and the wannabe president of Biden. Biden was serious. He was thoughtful. He was measured.

But in a way you can understand this is the rule of opposites. Americans look for, in the next president, someone with the opposite characteristics of the incumbent president. And so when George W. Bush was lighthearted about his decision-making, we went to a professorial decision-maker in Obama.

Then from Obama, who is very serious and thoughtful and intellectual and professorial, we go to Trump, who's frivolous about his decision- making and arrogant in his self-worth. Now we have another study in contrasts. You go from the inexperienced, frivolous president to the very experienced sober president, would be. And that study in contrasts, I think, you're absolutely correct. This plays right into Joe Biden's hands, and it works so clearly against the president, because that contrast is striking.

VAUSE: Politics, everything, is timing. Michael, thank you. Very good to see you. Michael Genovese there in Los Angeles. Appreciate it.

GENOVESE: Thank you, John. VAUSE: The Canadian prime minister, Justin Trudeau, will spend the

next 14 days in self-isolation and working from home after his wife tested positive for the coronavirus. Sophie Gregoire Trudeau will remain in isolation. That's according to the prime minister's office. She recently returned from a speaking engagement in the U.K.

In a tweet, Mr. Trudeau says his wife has mild symptoms and is following her doctor's advice. The prime minister has no symptoms, but he's still working the phones, even discussing the coronavirus fight on Thursday with President Trump.

Doctors say there's no need for him to be tested at the moment.

Well, a senior U.S. health official says that America's approach to coronavirus testing is failing. We'll explain why, and we'll take a look at what the plans are to try and fix that.

Also ahead, Russia outsourcing its election meddling business. CNN tracks down a Russian troll farm thousands of kilometers from the Russian border.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: The United States has carried out air strikes in Iraq, targeting Iranian-backed militia sites south of Baghdad. One U.S. official said the five weapons storage facilities were hit as a way of reducing future threats on coalition forces.

The Pentagon says this is a response to a rocket attack on Wednesday which killed two Americans and one British service member. For months, U.S. federal authorities have been investigating how Russia is trying to interfere in the 2020 election campaign.

A CNN investigation has discovered how the Russians are outsourcing some trolling operations to target American voters, seeking to inflame tensions and serve unrest in the U.S.

Working with Facebook, Twitter, and researchers at the Clemson University in the United States, we found nearly 300 accounts that were followed by more than a quarter of a million people, most of them here in the United States. And they were created not in Russia, but with Africa. CNN's chief international correspondent, Clarissa Ward, has this exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thousands of miles from the frosty streets of St. Petersburg, this is a new hub for Russia's infamous trolls.

A CNN investigation has found that Ghana was the launch pad for an online operation to stoke racial tensions and stir up social unrest in the U.S. ahead of the 2020 election. On Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, hundreds of accounts churned out posts about issues such as racism and police brutality in the U.S.

[00:20:12]

(on camera): For months now, we have been investigating this network of trolls targeting African-Americans. And now we've actually come here to Ghana to try to get the full story.

(voice-over): In the run-up to our journey, we had discovered that all of the accounts were connected to an NGO called Eliminating Barriers for the Liberation of Africa, known as EBLA, or Ebla.

Looking at the website, it was clear something was off. Parts of it still had dummy text. It was impossible to make an actual donation. And most mysteriously, one of the photographs had a Russian file name.

Though the group claim to be focused on issues like poverty in Ghana, its employees posted almost exclusively about the U.S. Some used incendiary language: "America's descent into a fascist police state continues. Someone needs to take that senator out."

Often, they posted on real U.S. groups, an attempt to gain legitimacy and build an audience. Many even implied they were in America. "We all are all sick and tired of the violence that's taking place in our communities."

In reality, they were here, in a nondescript house on the outskirts of Ghana's capital.

(on camera): This is the compound where the operation has been based. There's no sign for an NGO. We're about an hour outside of the city. And you can see that this is a very secluded residential area. And people here have been telling us that about three weeks ago, Ghanaian security forces showed up here, raided the building, and no one's been back since.

(VOICE-OVER): Sources in Ghana's national security tell CNN that all of Ebla's funding came from Russia.

After the raid, the accounts went quiet for a few days. Then, on Instagram, the group changed their handle names and started posting again.

(on camera): We're heading out now to meet one of the EBLA employees. They don't actually know that CNN is coming to this meeting, but we're desperately hoping they might be able to give us some more information about how the NGO works and who might be behind it.

After some discussion about their safety, the employee agrees to talk to us, provided we keep her identity hidden. We sit down in a secure location. She tells us she was hired in September of 2019 and had no idea she would be working as a Russian troll.

(on camera): Tell me more about your training.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So we were trained to use relevant hashtags. So if I'm posting about Black Lives Matter, I should add a hashtag about probably Beyonce. WARD (voice-over): The 16 employees were each given different areas to

focus on: racism, police brutality, feminism.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Initially, your success was measured by the number of people you reach. But most importantly, you have to get followers, all right.

WARD: The tactics are strikingly similar to those used by Russia's Internet Research Agency, known as the IRA, ahead of the U.S. presidential election in 2016.

The aim? To pit Americans against each other and create mistrust of the political system. Run by Yevgeny Prigozhin, a close associate of President Putin, the IRA was later sanctioned by the U.S.

This time, the Russians appear to be outsourcing some of their Russian troll networks, offering plausible deniability. The employee tells us her boss was a South African who called himself Mr. Amara.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He certainly was a passionate person about helping people.

WARD (on camera): Do you know if Mr. Amara spoke any languages other than English?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to what I heard, he spoke Russian, too.

WARD: But Mr. Amara is not south African. In fact, he is not Mr. Amara at all.

CNN has learned his real name is Seth Wiredu, and he is Ghanaian. Wiredu has worked and studied in Russia for many years.

Months after starting the Ghana operation, he opened a second branch in Nigeria. In January of this year, EBLA even posted a job on LinkedIn in Charleston, South Carolina.

The raid by Ghana's security services did not stop Wiredu. On our last day in Accra, we find out that he has organized a secret meeting of employees on a university campus. He tells them to create more accounts, and promises they will get paid soon.

[00:25:07]

As the meeting finishes, we approach him wearing a hidden camera, and greet him in Russian.

(on camera): (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: Excuse me, wait a moment, please!

SETH WIREDU, EBLA: Hello!

WARD: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GRAPHIC: Seth! Hi, my name is Clarissa Ward. I work for CNN. How are you?

WARD: I just had a couple of questions for you about EBLA. And why you posted this job in the U.S., in Charleston, South Carolina?

WIREDU: Well, it's actually so strange for someone to come up and ask me about EBLA right now. So I don't know how much I can be of help to you.

WARD: Are you aware that there is a presidential election in November?

WIREDU: No.

WARD: You're not aware of that?

WIREDU: I know there's one in Ghana.

WARD: How long have you been working for the IRA, for the troll factory?

WIREDU: What troll factory?

WARD: In St. Petersburg, Russia?

WIREDU: I don't know -- I don't know what the IRA is, so I can't tell you that I'm working for the IRA.

WARD: So why do you call yourself Mr. Amar a and say that you're South African?

WIREDU: I just think it's my own personal something. Everyone can call themselves anything that they want. Anyone can transform into whatever they want. I'm protected by God.

WARD: OK.

WIREDU: I do this for me, I do this for my own people.

WARD: But you're actually doing it for Russia. So you might want to explain to God that there was a mix-up.

(voice-over): He repeatedly denies running a Russian troll factory. And with that, our conversation ends.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here he comes.

WARD: Moments later, we see Wiredu drive off in a red Mercedes. Wherever his money comes from, he seems to be doing well.

The room where EBLA's trolls once sat now stands empty, but similar operations out there may be ramping up as efforts to influence the 2020 election continue.

Clarissa Ward, CNN, Accra, Ghana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: We reached out to all of EBLA's employees, who say they did not understand they were working for a Russian troll factory.

Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter have now taken down all 275 accounts. Between them they are followed by more than a quarter of a million people, most of them in the United States.

What's surprising is that Facebook and Twitter say this is actually still the early stages of this kind of operation, but social media companies are now able to move quickly to identify these networks. CNN has reached out to Yevgeny Prigozhin, but we have not received a response.

Now, according to the U.S. president, testing for the coronavirus is all going very smoothly. But the country's top infectious disease official says otherwise. We'll explain why the U.S. is lagging behind so many other countries around the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:30:15]

VAUSE: When it comes to mass testing for the coronavirus, the U.S. has got the testing part down, OK. It's just the mass part which doesn't seem to be working out so well. In fact, the United States has fallen well behind many other nations when it comes to the number of people who have actually been tested.

And the head, or one of the senior members, rather, of the White House task force on the coronavirus says America's approach is failing. So why the slow response? And what's being done about it?

Here's CNN's senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One of Hollywood's most famous couples, Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson, announcing they tested positive for coronavirus.

But that test wasn't done in the U.S. Instead, the pair are in Australia, where testing is free and easy to get, thanks to an early and coordinated response. A big difference from what we're seeing in the U.S.

ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: We're working hard to get testing available.

COHEN: Just compare the U.S. to South Korea. As of Wednesday, only 11,079 specimens have been tested in the U.S. That pales in comparison to the nearly 200,000 people tested in South Korea. And America's population is more than six times larger.

Because of the test shortage in the U.S., not just anyone can get one.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL HOSPITAL: So coming into a physician's office and saying, "I have upper respiratory symptoms. I want a coronavirus test," that's not going to happen. COHEN: At Massachusetts General Hospital, for example, following state

rules, they're saying no to people under age 60 who have no underlying medical conditions, if that person just has a runny nose and a sore throat. But they might say yes if that person has been in close contact with someone with coronavirus or recently traveled to China or other coronavirus hot spots.

South Korea successfully ramped up its testing, even doing them at drive-throughs like this one, an idea the CDC director says the U.S. is not planning to use right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are there any plans to have drive-through testing in America so that we do not panic emergency rooms when people come in and cough?

REDFIELD: Not at this time. I think we're trying to maintain the relationship between individuals and their health care providers.

COHEN: So how does the U.S. plan to get many more Americans tested for coronavirus?

They're leaning on two commercial test makers, Lab Corps and Quest Diagnostics, that your doctor can order for you directly without going through a state lab.

MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ultimately, it's going to be the commercial laboratories that have the capacity to get tests all over the country.

COHEN: One of those commercial laboratories, Quest Diagnostics, telling CNN, "We expect to be able to perform tens of thousands of tests a week within the next six weeks."

CNN has contacted several large hospital systems, and they say they're not using these commercial tests right now, but they hope to very soon. That would lead to more testing, which would help public health officials get a better handle on containing the growing coronavirus outbreak.

Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Dr. Dennis Carroll joins me now from Washington. He's an infectious disease expert. He was an adviser to President Obama. And he is now the president of the Global Viral (ph) Project.

And it's good to see you again, Doctor.

DR. DENNIS CARROLL, PRESIDENT, GLOBAL VIRAL (PH) PROJECT: Good to see you again, John.

VAUSE: Thank you.

In that report we just heard from Elizabeth Cohen, she compared the U.S. to South Korea in terms of testing, which seems to be telling in terms of where we are right now.

Perhaps, though, comparing South Korea and Italy as an indication of where the U.S. could be in a relatively short amount of time. Both Italy and South Korea saw their first outbreaks around late January. Since that point, South Korea tested more than 220,000 people.

Italy started widespread testing but narrowed that down to only those showing symptoms. Still, more than 73,000 were screened. South Korea confirmed almost 8,000 cases. More than 12,000 were confirmed in Italy.

This is the point. South Korea's death toll, less than 100. Italy's death toll, more than 1,000. And keep in mind, Italy has locked down the entire country. South Korea has not.

So although there are some issues comparing those numbers directly from country to country, those comparisons can be fraught with a little bit of danger. The point is, widespread testing works. But how does it work? Why does it make such a difference?

CARROLL: Widespread testing is really critical of more do purposes. One, to know where the virus is. If your goal is to reduce the spread of the virus, you have to, first off, know where it is. And you have to know what populations are infected, because you're only going to disrupt the spread of the virus if you can then place those people who are infected in some kind of quarantine situation, remove them from the general public so that they are not further infected.

So if you don't know who's infected, you're never going to achieve that goal of blocking transmission. And so that --

[00:35:13]

VAUSE: Doctor, I think Fauci basically said that right now -- he's from the corona task force, virus task force in the White House. He told Congress that right now, the system is failing.

They also said there should be some kind of improvement in about a week or so. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: What I'm hearing from the task force meeting that I just left, that that should very likely happen within the next week or so. It's not going to be months. It's going to be a week or so. We are going to get many, many more tests that will be available.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: I don't doubt Dr. Fauci's word for a moment, but if his source of information is coming from, you know, the White House, that would, at the very least, be reason to doubt what he is being told.

And besides that, why has it taken three months to get to a point where, you know, all this may be available a week from Tuesday? CARROLL: Well, there's a very good questions. I think the biggest

challenge we've had is a lack of clear answers, and quite frankly, the lack of transparency into why these tests have failed. Why it is that the inability to generate large volumes of new tests have not been, you know, taking place.

But there's a lot of misunderstanding and a lot of lack of clarity in terms of why these tests are not available. This really is an unprecedented situation. And we see countries around the world generating these tests and being able to do the detection at the community level that, quite frankly, in the United States, we are completely unable to do.

So Doctor Fauci is a remarkably credible individual, but a week or a week or so still remains a vague and, quite frankly, very unsatisfying answer.

VAUSE: And just from the health care systems, if you look at Italy and South Korea, they both have publicly-funded health care. The difference, though, is that once the Italian health care system came under strain from the coronavirus, it went from bad, essentially, to a crisis.

Considering the U.S. has, what, 2.8 hospital beds per 1,000 people. Italy has 3.2 beds. More importantly there are about 45,000 ICU intensive care unit beds in the United States. And any moderate outbreak would see a demand around the 200,000 mark within the United States. So it would seem whatever spare capacity there is in the United States system wouldn't last especially long.

CARROLL: Well, I think that is one of the reasons that the risk of the system being overwhelmed by a sudden surge in numbers of cases, why the importance of detection is making it possible to actually begin to break the rate at which this virus is spreading.

You've heard from a variety of government sources the very purpose of detection right now is to really flatten the curve of transmission so that you don't have hundreds of thousands of people showing up in a very short period of time. You're spreading that out over a longer period of time to allow the system to absorb those cases.

But again, not knowing who infected, not knowing who needs to be isolated further runs the risk that we are going to see a dramatic surge and the number of cases, which will put an unacceptable stress on the health system at large.

VAUSE: If you want to talk about a surge in the number of cases, listen to the governor of Ohio. He believes, even though right now there are only a number of -- handful of confirmed cases in his state, he believes the actual number could already be around 100,000. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE DEWINE (OH): They tell us that when you have two community people, in other words, who didn't get it on a cruise ship or didn't get it on a trip, we don't know where they got it. When you hit two, you basically have 1 percent of your population that is impacted, that is infected.

So that's what really led us to do this. A large number of people. And, you know, this thing multiplies. The experts we've consulted say that it will multiply every 6 days. So in other words, if you have 100,000 people one day, six days later you've got 200,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Just from your experience and what you've heard, does the governor, essentially, have it right?

CARROLL: Well, the numbers in principle make sense. But the fact that the governor is put in a position of having, essentially, to guess how many cases there are within his state, again, is -- it makes for incredibly bad policy decisions. Guessing is not a good approach towards rolling out an effective public health counter measure.

[00:40:22]

VAUSE: Oddly enough, that does seem to be where we're at this point, simply guessing how bad this will get and guessing where we're at on so many of these issues.

Doctor Carroll, good to see you. Thank you so much.

CARROLL: All right. Thank you.

VAUSE: With that, we'll have a quick break. You are watching CNN newsroom. Back in 2 minutes.

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VAUSE: CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Anderson Cooper hosted a coronavirus global town hall on Thursday, taking questions on everything, including how to prevent infection.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is regarding the mail. I'm a stay-at- home mom, and I do a lot of online shopping. So I'm curious how long coronavirus lives on surfaces and how we should be handling the mail.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We got a ton of these, Dr. Fauci. Mail, and also questions about this. How do we handle mail and also currency?

FAUCI: Yes. You know, there was a paper that was either submitted or already published from one of our people who looked at the detection of viable virus on a variety of substances, stainless steel, poly properly, in cardboard, cloth, things like that. For the most part, the tie tradition of it is probably measured in a couple of hours. I would think something that goes through the mail, by the time it gets to you, that's it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Please stay here on CNN as we follow developments with the coronavirus. And you can watch the town hall in its entirety coming up at 8 a.m. in London, a few hours from now; 4 p.m. in Hong Kong.

Now, one of golf's most popular tournaments, the Players Championship, has been canceled after the first round because of the coronavirus. There were plans for the tournament to continue this weekend but without spectators.

Well, two events have been canceled until the Valero, Texas Open April 2, according to the PGA.

We'll have a lot more on this coming up next here on WORLD SPORT.

Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause. Back at the top of the hour. See you then.

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[00:45:30]

(WORLD SPORT)

[00:57:01]

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VAUSE: Hello, everyone. I'm John Vause. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM, live from Studio Seven at CNN's world headquarters in Atlanta.

Ahead this hour, the show does not go on. Broadway, professional sports, even the house of mouse, all shutting down as the coronavirus outbreak spreads across the U.S.

He was trying to reassure an anxious nation.

END