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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Trump: It's Going To Be A "Very Painful' Two Weeks As WH Projects More Than 100,000 Coronavirus Deaths; Nearly 80 Percent Of Americans Under Stay-At-Home Orders; Trump: Federal Government Holding Back Almost 10,000 Ventilators Because "The Surge Is Coming;" WH Extends Social Distancing Guidelines Until April 30; At Least Five States Reporting More Than 1,000 New Cases; Top WH Health Experts Project 100,000 To 240,000 U.S. Coronavirus Deaths, Even With Social Distancing. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired March 31, 2020 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[20:00:00]

JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Peter's Clam Bar on Long Island has named a linguine with white clam sauce dish after him. Just order the Fauci. And the Donuts Delite in Rochester, New York that added his image to their donuts has now been imitated by other bakers, adding butter scotch COVID cream and quarantini sprinkles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Making donuts to bring attention to a health crisis might be the most American thing.

MOOS: The accolades aren't a cure, but the "I Love New York" treatment makes it all feel a little better. Even man's best friend chimed in. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: And thanks for watching. "ANDERSON" starts now.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And good evening. The White House coronavirus task force completed a stark and stunning presentation in the last hour, warning of what the President called a very painful two weeks ahead.

According to the latest projection presented by scientists on the task force today, 100,000 to 240,000 people in this country will die in the weeks and months ahead. One hundred thousand to 240,000. And that is with current stay at home orders and social distancing efforts.

That is certainly not good news, but when you compare it to the alternative, it just might be. On a chart called Goals of Community Mitigation also presented by the task force, we saw estimates of what would happen without isolation and mitigation efforts. One million people in this country could die, possibly many more than that.

So let me make it clear. According to best estimates embraced by the nation's top scientists, if we were not following stay at home orders or social distancing orders, 1 million or more of us would die in this country. As it is right now, 100,000 to 240,000 of us will likely die.

This is where we are tonight in this pandemic. And as Dr. Anthony Fauci said during that presentation, models are only as good as the assumptions they're based on. The question is, can we do more to bring the death toll down?

We're going to look at that tonight because the answer is yes. The question is, can we actually do it? Do we have the staying power? As Dr. Deborah Birx said, there would be no magic bullets or vaccines, at least immediately. Rather, she said our behavior -- our behavior -- you and me - is all we have to stem the number of dead.

And these are the numbers as we know them today. At least 794 people died today. That's a single-day record in the U.S. Just like yesterday's 519 dying in this country was a record. Just like Sunday's total of 456 people, men and women who died, was a record. Every day new records, and every day we break that record by more and more people dying. The total number of death, 3,798 in this country.

As for house the white house came up with these projections, this is what Dr. Birx had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALE SPEAKER: So right now we're at about 4,000 deaths here in the united States. Are you suggesting a spike of more than 90,000 deaths over the

next few weeks? Do you have a demographic break down of the areas that are most at risk and where most of those deaths may occur?

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR, WHITE HOUSE: Well, right now -- and I think if you ask Chris Murray, he would say he's using the information coming out of New York and New Jersey and applying that to potentially other states having the same outcome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: You heard Dr. Birx refer to Dr. Murray. He joins us now, Dr. Chris Murray. He's the chair of Health Metric Sciences, the University of Washington. He's the person, part of the team that assembled this projection and has continued to update it. Also joining us is senior chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Dr. Murray, you talked to us earlier today. Can you explain these models, what they are based on? And just so we're clear, the 100,000 to 240,000, that is with current efforts underway to isolate. Is that correct?

DR. CHRIS MURRAY, CHAIR OF HEALTH METRIC SCIENCES, UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON: So, in our models which are based on trying to look at what's going to happen to death in the U.S., assuming that social isolation is kept in place right through to the end of May in our models, and that gives us a mean estimate of about 80,000 deaths. We're slightly more optimistic than what Ambassador Birx said.

But there is a very wide range, very similar to what we heard from the White House in those models. The basis of them is coming from seeing the experience around the world, places like Wuhan in China that bent the curve down. And also now evidence coming here, the U.S., that social isolation is working to reduce the case load.

[20:05:00]

So that's a --

COOPER: And Dr. Murray, when you say it's based on, you know, the continuation of these social distancing efforts, do you mean the efforts that are currently underway?

Because right now, you know, those of us who are, you know, staying at home and social distancing as much as possible in states where it's been ordered -- we think everyone is doing it, but they're not. The whole country is not doing this.

There are many governors who have not put stay-at-home orders in place in their states, even though all the science points to this saving lives. If more states started putting those orders in place immediately, would that affect the death toll?

MURRAY: Absolutely. And in fact, we've taken -- because we're trying to help hospitals plan for the surge, and so we're trying to say, this is what we think is most likely to happen.

And so, to do that, we have assumed that all the states that don't yet have stay-at-home orders in place will do so within a week, because of the magnitude of the challenge that the country is facing.

If they don't put those in place within a week, then the epidemic will be larger and will actually potentially last longer.

COOPER: So your 80,000 estimate -- whereas the White House is saying 100,000 to 240,000 -- your 80,000 estimate is, assuming that within a week, all these governors in these states that have not put these orders in place are going to wake up and realize, okay, you know what, I've got to do this. I should have done this earlier. Now I'm going to do it.

And that will end up with 80,000 deaths. If they don't do that, you would say on your projection it's going to be -- you can draw a clear line and say there's going to be more people who die?

MURRAY: Absolutely. And we're -- just like a weather forecast, you know, there's a lot of uncertainties here. And, you know, the weather forecasts keep changing. The closer you get to the day, the better they get.

We're updating our forecast every night so that at, you know, 6:00 a.m. Pacific time, there is a new set of forecasts and we take on board immediately if a state has made, you know, a new stay-at-home order and that would change the trajectory. And if they keep delaying, then our forecast will get worse as time goes by.

COOPER: Sanjay, what I don't understand -- you hear from Dr. Murray. You heard from Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx, and the task force. The science is clear. If there is social distancing, if there are stay-at-home orders in states, fewer people will die.

And we're talking about, you know, possibly tens of thousands or more people. That's the difference. I don't understand why social distancing, stay-at-home orders are not in place across this country, given the science is clear.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, Anderson, I think they should be. You know, we've been talking about this -- feels like for a couple of months now, you know, essentially saying this and reminding people that, look, you know, people's behavior in this country directly affects the health of people all over the country, you know.

I mean, how you behave affects me and how I behave affects you. We've been saying this for some time. And yet, it still seems like there's been this sort of false balance that some of these states have been trying to strike between the economy and public health.

I mean, you know, one thing you'll say about the recommendations that have come nationally -- even though two weeks ago -- two weeks and a day ago, that's when they started the 15-day pause.

Many states have not, sort of, kept up with that. Even when they started that pause, I think they knew -- I think Dr. Fauci knew for certain that it was going to be extended -- and now till April 30th.

And as you hear from Dr. Murray, that these -- his projections count on that extending till the end of May. So that's eight weeks from now, just to be clear. Eight weeks, not four weeks. And eight weeks plus the two weeks we already had. That's ten weeks, you know.

And yet, you still have states that haven't even implemented at this point. It's worrisome, you know, and models are models, you know. I mean, when you look at the background, sort of, levels of coronavirus in some of these states, frankly -- and I'm curious what Dr. Murray says about this, but how do you even know?

I mean, we really haven't done adequate testing in these places. I don't want to belabor that point. But it seems like a huge problem. We don't know. We don't know what's going to happen in those states. A week and a half ago, Michigan had 15 cases. Now they're considered one of the hot spots -- Detroit. I mean, it can be explosive in some of these places.

COOPER: Dr. Murray, I don't know why any governor would be, you know, lulled into a sense that it's not a big issue in their state, given the fact that the testing has been so screwed up this entire time.

There's not enough tests out there, no matter what the president may say --even on Sunday, saying he hadn't really heard any complaints about testing lately.

Are the numbers -- to base a projection without testing, are the numbers accurate? [20:10:00]

MURRAY: So, because of all the concerns about variation in testing rates across states -- who gets tested -- we haven't really paid much attention to the case numbers. Our forecasting is really driven by looking at what we think is stronger -- not perfect, but stronger -- evidence, which is people dying from COVID-19.

And the reason is, is that in settings with limited tests, you know, they're preferentially being given by the health staff to the sickest patients. So, we believe there was more and those are a better basis for coming up with these forecasts. So, you know, we shouldn't be lulled into a false sense of security if there are low numbers of cases --

COOPER: If we had better testing, that would be good for you in terms of gathering data and accuracy.

MURRAY: Absolutely. You know, more data is great. We're getting a flood from many states of data since we released these forecasts last week. That's helping to improve them. We're getting much better insights into the age -- ages affected. And with each -- more data, definitely better forecasts.

COOPER: Yes. Dr. Murray, I really appreciate all your efforts. Dr. Chris Murray, thank you so much.

MURRAY: Thank you.

COOPER: And Sanjay, stay with us. I want to bring in Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency room physician, former Baltimore health commissioner.

Dr. Wen, I mean, 100,000 and 240,000 deaths, and that's -- I guess, that's also assuming that all the states -- or maybe it's not. Maybe it's just assuming current stay-at-home orders. Dr. Murray's was 80,000 deaths, assuming all the states, you know, within a week start to do stay-at-home orders. It's alarming.

DR. LEANA WEN, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN, FORMER BALTIMORE HEALTH COMMISSIONER: That's right, and it very much is. And these are the optimistic estimates. That's assuming that we are doing everything, which we know that we're not. And I think just to underscore this point that we know what works, and we need to be doing that.

I mean, we need to be strengthening health care capacity, getting tests out, but also, we really need to be abiding by the social distancing guidelines because that's what's really turned things around in other countries and would be what works here too.

COOPER: Sanjay, so the White House task force is said to be actively discussing whether the public should be wearing masks. The president at the briefing today even suggested people should just wear scarves. I just want to play what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You can use a scarf. A scarf is -- everybody -- a lot of people have scarves, and you can use a scarf. A scarf would be very good. And I -- my -- my feeling is if people want to do it, there's certainly no harm to it. I would say do it. But use a scarf if you want, you know, rather than going out and getting a mask or whatever. We're making millions and millions of masks, but we want them to go to the hospitals.

I mean, one of the things that Dr. Fauci told me today is we don't want them competing -- we don't want everybody competing with the hospitals where you really need them. So, you can use scarves, you can use something else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So, before -- up to now, people -- the advice from professionals has been, well, you know, the masks are really for people who are sick or obviously medical professionals. You touch your face more with a mask. You play - if you don't have it already, you're touching your face more. Sanjay, do you think people should be wearing masks now?

GUPTA: You know, I think maybe we're going to get to the point where people will wear masks more often in public. But let me explain why. First of all, the WHO and the CDC are still not on board with this. Their concern is that people wearing masks may lull them into a false sense of security for the reasons you just mentioned, Anderson.

They may also say, you know, it may, sort of, reduce discipline regarding social distancing because people will feel like they're fine with the mask, they can go out in public, whereas they should stay home still, no matter what. Here's what the difference is.

I think here's the point of debate right now, is that if you sort of think about people having the virus, the fact that it's spreading and that there are people who are asymptomatic and they're spreading it, could a mask -- not a hospital mask, like an N95 or a surgical mask, but just a cloth mask of some sort -- could it actually help asymptomatic people who have the virus, could it reduce the likelihood that they spread it?

That's really the question at play here. It's not so much for healthy people to prevent them from getting the virus. I mean, it's not going to do that. But for someone who has it but maybe doesn't even know it, could it reduce the likelihood of them spreading it? I think that that's the question here at play.

And Dr. Fauci, I talked to him about this, you know, at length this afternoon, Anderson, and really pinned him down. And what he ultimately said was he's leaning toward that.

He's leaning toward that. You know, the balance, interestingly, you know, where we talk about the shutdowns, the balances between public health and the economy, the balance here really is between public health and perception and optics, and this idea that if people are wearing masks out in public, will America be perceived as sick. You know, other countries do this culturally. We don't really do it in

this country.

[20:15:00]

So that's really, I think, one of the discussion points. But I think, you know, they're making the argument as this has evolved as the virus has become more widespread there may be some merit to this -- Anderson

COOPER: Just to be clear, and I think it's a real important point: for Dr. Fauci the idea is people wearing masks so that if it turns out they are -- they actually have the virus, they just don't have any symptoms and don't even know they have the virus, that will prevent them from spreading it. It's not just that everybody should be wearing a mask because it will protect them from ever getting it.

GUPTA: That's right. I mean, still, the first advice is the first advice: people should stay home. If you have symptoms, you should especially stay home. But for people who are doing essential things out there, if they're behaving like they may have the virus -- it was something that we've talked about -- maybe as part of that, to protect other people, as opposed to trying to prevent themselves from getting the virus, a mask may help.

COOPER: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Dr. Wen, as well, thank you very much.

I want to turn now to Jim Acosta. The press briefing just ended after going for 2 hours 11 minutes, ended about 40 minutes ago. Jim, what stood out to you?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, I will tell you, in the seven years I have covered the White House, that is the most stunning briefing that I have ever sat through.

To have public health officials come in and try to explain to the American people that they need to come to grips with the fact, or the very strong likelihood, that we're going to see 100,000 to 200,000 Americans die over the next couple of months from the coronavirus.

I have to tell you, it was just downright chilling. Now, I will say, in terms of what the president was saying in the briefing room, this was President Trump changing his tune on the coronavirus. At one point he said, "It's not the flu, it's vicious." That's after he has compared it to the coronavirus in the past.

You mentioned just a few moments ago where he was advising that Americans perhaps start wearing scarves, because of these recommendations that are starting to come from people like Dr. Fauci, that perhaps wearing masks in public might be a good idea. At one point, the president said that we're about to enter a rough two-week period.

This is just a stark contrast from what the president was saying a couple of weeks ago, and how he's been describing this coronavirus all along. And so we were trying to poke and prod in a number of areas during that briefing, Anderson.

I asked the president, why is he talking about holding back 10,000 ventilators? And, as he was describing it, it's because they want to be able to get those off to places in need over the next couple of months.

You do get the sense, Anderson, that they are getting into a war-like posture in trying to attack this virus; but at the same time, Anderson, I think the question had to be asked: how is it that the president is going to determine who gets these ventilators? He at one point said during the briefing that's something that he's going to be deciding, that his task force is going to be deciding.

So I think, Anderson, we're about to enter a period where this government, the administration is going to be making some very uncomfortable choices about how to care for Americans who are in very dire straits over the next couple of months.

The other thing I think that needs to be pointed out, at one point, the president, when I asked him, you know, "Could we have mitigated this a lot better? Could we have reduced the number of people facing, you know, the possible likelihood that they may die over the next couple of months?"

And, you know, the president at one point said, "Well, you see what happens when you get off to a late start?" He was pointing the finger at that point at New York State, and other areas that weren't really mitigating very strongly at first.

But, Anderson, the same thing could be said of the president. He got off to a late start because of the way he was telling people that this was going to go away, that this was going to miraculously disappear, and so on.

I tried to press the president on that at a number of points, and he said, you know, when he was pressed on this, he said he simply wanted to keep people in good spirits, that he didn't want to be somebody who was passing along bad news, and he wanted to be an optimist, and so on.

But I have to tell you, Anderson, I've never seen President Trump like this. I know people might say, "Well, you know, I can't ever trust him, he's a phoney," and so on. People may say that, but Anderson, I have to tell you, sitting in that room that close to him: I've never seen President Trump like this, and I think to some extent he is scared right now, Anderson, and I -- and we could all feel that in the room.

COOPER: Well, Jim, let me ask you: what was very startling to me is, you know, you have Governor Cuomo this morning sort of expressing, just, I don't know how to characterize it.

Frustration, disgust, you know, whatever it is, that, you know, states are now being told, "You've got to just find your own ventilators." So states are now bidding against each other. Then he says, then FEMA comes in and bids against the states, and it's just a totally messed up system: it's driving the prices up.

The president was asked about that. He -- well, he went around and round on it, but he ultimately came down to saying, "Well, they shouldn't be doing that, because you're going to be bidding up the prices," which is exactly what Governor Cuomo said is happening.

And the president said, "Well, the states shouldn't do that.

[20:20:00]

They should call the White House, and the White House would get the ventilators, and then send it to the states." That is in stark -- that is exactly the opposite of what President Trump said a while ago, which was, you know, it's not the federal - federal government's job to, you know, to be sending out and supplying the states. The states are the ones who should go out, get ventilators and do stuff, and then the federal government is a backup.

ACOSTA: That's right, Anderson. And I -- and I don't think the President wanted to, I think, come to that reality, that we have a situation right now in this country where governors are competing with one another for vital life saving medical equipment.

And, quite frankly, when the President says, "Well, we're going to keep 10,000 ventilators in a stockpile and send them off when they're needed in certain hot spots," it may be too little, too late. Some of these hot spots may need many more than that.

And so I tried to ask the question, you know, is that part of the modeling? Is that part of the reason why they're saying 100,000 to 200,000 deaths, because we just don't have the equipment, we weren't ready, we weren't prepared as a nation? And, you know, Dr. Birx came up to the lectern at one point.

Dr. Fauci -- I think Dr. Fauci came the closest to anybody in that room to acknowledging that had we been more aggressive sooner, that perhaps we might have been able to lower this projection that was just grabbing us by the shirt collar. In that room, Dr. Birx was essentially saying, well, this virus even surprised her.

I think there are just going to be so many lessons learned moving forward, Anderson. But the -- the stark message we got in that briefing room this evening is unmistakable. This country is about to go through a horrendous terrible experience, and I have to tell you, people may not believe the President when he says any of this, and I have been -- you and I have been, you know, pretty critical of him from time to time.

COOPER: Yeah.

ACOSTA: This was a different Donald Trump tonight. I think he gets it, Anderson.

COOPER: Well, we'll see. Jim Acosta, thank you. Joining me is the governor of Maryland, Governor Larry Hogan. Governor, thanks so much for being with us. I know how busy you are. The President says now, go to him for ventilators and equipment. The states shouldn't be out there bidding up against each other, which is what Governor Cuomo says is happening. Is that happening for Maryland as well?

GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R), MARYLAND: You know, so I think the -- the message is sort of changing because the situation on the ground is changing, Anderson. Yes, it had been happening, and the message was that states should go ahead and get -- on their own -- go get testing, and states should get their own PPE and masks and ventilators. And now that's changed a little bit as of the messaging today.

But -- it is a problem, but look, the federal government is responding to the crisis. The governors are trying to respond to the crisis. And it doesn't do a lot of good to continue to point fingers.

We're all trying to catch up. But, yeah, it -- it has been a problem. Not only are the states competing with one another, but we're on the open market to try to grab these things that there's a short supply of, and that we all desperately need.

But now we're competing with the federal government and sometimes with -- with other countries around the globe because, quite frankly, there's just not enough of all of these things and there's not an organized fashion. So I think everybody is trying to grapple with that.

I understand the frustration that Governor Cuomo was expressing. Many of -- you know, I'm chair of the National Governors Association. Many of the governors are expressing this frustration.

Today was a little bit of a change, when they were saying, "Okay, we're going to try to organize this." And -- but that's not what we were hearing a couple of days ago. And on testing, it's sort of just the opposite, about, "You should go get your own testing." So we're trying to sort these things out, and --

COOPER: Do you have the ventilators you need in Maryland?

HOGAN: No. No state in America has enough ventilators and we're -- we're short of a lot of these things. And that's what we keep pushing. And these - we've had six of these calls with all the governors across America, with the Vice President or the President, and these are the kind of -- it's the shortage of all of these things. Masks and PPE and ventilators.

It's not just a problem in New York or New Jersey or California. It's every single one of the 50 states and the five territories all have the same exact issue. We don't have enough of these things. And it's not pointing fingers. It's not just the federal government has failed, or the states have failed. There's not enough of these things. No one was prepared for this, and we're all caught flat-footed.

And the bottom line is every one of us has to work together because it's about what we can do tomorrow and what we can do over the next couple of weeks to save the lives of tens of thousands of people, instead of just, you know, us wasting time arguing about who should have done what. I think that's more productive. COOPER: Yes. Just in terms of that, of moving forward. Maryland now,

you -- you have now stay-at-home orders for -- for your state, correct? That happened today?

HOGAN: Yes. Well, no, it was actually yesterday. But, look, we've been, I think, more aggressive than 48 other states. I was the first governor, I think, in America to declare state of emergency like 28 days ago.

COOPER: Right.

HOGAN: We were the first or second to close all the schools. We're one of the first to close all the bars and restaurants.

[20:25:00]

In all the entire Washington metropolitan region, we had Maryland, D.C. and Virginia, where we believe we're about two weeks behind New York. All of us, 14 1/2 million people, now have a solid, very strong stay-at-home order right here in the nation's capital where we're home to 440,000 federal workers that are at the heart of fighting this crisis for the rest of America, that we're about to be impacted. We're the next wave.

COOPER: What would your advice be for other governors of states who have not imposed that? I know it's a difficult thing to do. Obviously there's huge economic consequences for I and as you said, you've been out front on a lot of this stuff from very early on.

What would your message be to the other governors? Because the science seems to me to be clear. I mean, I talked to Bill Gates about this and Fauci about this last week and just -- Dr. Murray who does the modeling tonight.

If all the states -- he's assuming those 80,000 deaths or that 100,000 deaths that the White House is assuming, that's based on the idea that all states will by the end of next week have stay-at-home orders. Do you think it's important to urge all governors to do it now?

HOGAN: Look, I think -- I don't know why we're not addressing this at the federal level instead of saying, well the governors should be able to make up their own minds, look most --

COOPER: The White House should come out and --

HOGAN: -- have and --and

COOPER: -- have a guideline.

HOGAN: We could have done that a while ago, but we haven't. But now 80% of the people in America are under these kinds of orders. I don't know why other governors haven't taken these steps, they -- they probably need to be considering those things, because we're looking at the difference between on the low side, you know, 80 or 100,000 people. On the high side, one and a half million people if we don't take action, so I mean this is just absolutely essential. We've been as aggressive as possible. Many other governors have, because we're trying to save the lives of tens of thousands of people in our state.

COOPER: Yeah.

HOGAN: And look, there are huge economic impacts and nobody wants to damage the economy and put people out of work and hurt small businesses. But right now it's about saving lives and trying to protect the health and safety of our people. That has to come first, and later we're also going to have to address the problem of the economy.

COOPER: Governor Larry Hogan, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

HOGAN: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: Just ahead, the latest about the outbreak in the New York metropolitan area. The commissioner of the New York Police Department is going to join us to talk about the damage the pandemic has done to the police force.

We'll also speak with the Governor of New Jersey and his request to the white house for medical assistance, including ventilators and also about President Trumps comment that New Jersey and New York got a late start fighting the virus.

[20:27:30]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:31:00]

COOPER: Moments ago, we learned the death toll from today from coronavirus has increased. It's now 811. Again, that's just for one day. The White House task force is presenting modeling tonight that highlights the importance of social distancing and as many people as possible staying home. New York is the hardest hit area at this point.

Joining me is Art Gianelli, president of Mount Sinai Morningside Hospital. Thanks so much for being with us. Art, you posted a video on Instagram

which said your hospital is, quote, "as broken as the city is served for more than 170 years." How dire is the situation for you and your staff?

ART GIANELLI, PRESIDENT, MOUNT SINAI MORNINGSIDE HOSPITAL: Well, Anderson, first of all, it's a pleasure to be on your show. And it is dire. It's dire particularly for our staff and the patients that we serve. So yesterday, for example, we had 223 patients who were COVID- positive in our hospital, representing about 70% of the total census in our hospital.

And what I meant by that phrase was to say that we've really turned our hospital upside down in order to create capacity to accept these COVID-positive patients. We've created ICUs where they didn't exist previously. We've turned cardiology space into space to take care of COVID-positive patients.

COOPER: And how are your supplies?

GIANELLI: So, our supplies are hanging in. I have to say that the Mount Sinai health system has done really an extraordinary job sourcing supplies for us. We've actually looked all over the globe and our reach has been that broad in order to bring in enough personal protective equipment and enough ventilators and enough other supplies to be able to support our staff.

So we're holding on right now, but we continue the effort to try to find more because we realize this is going to be a marathon, as your previous segment spoke to. We're going to be looking at weeks and months here, not days.

COOPER: Yeah. So, I mean, the next two or three weeks, are you prepared for what lies ahead? Again, from the White House tonight, just hearing the next few weeks seem to be heading toward the apex.

GIANELLI: So, we've known that we're heading toward the apex now for some time, both based on the projections that the governor of the state of New York has been providing and our own internal projections. Because of that, we have been preparing really 24/7 at this point.

Again, creating bed capacity to accept these COVID-positive patients, creating ICU capacity where that capacity didn't exist previously, bringing in additional ventilators, bringing in additional personal protective equipment, bringing in and resourcing staff that were doing things differently previously, that we're now assigning to this work.

COOPER: Yeah. Art Gianelli, I appreciate what you're doing and all the medical professionals you work with. Thank you very much. We'll continue to keep in touch with you.

Among those falling sick in great numbers are New York's finest. Joining me now is New York City police commissioner, Dermot Shea. Commissioner Shea, what are the latest figures you have and how many members of the force have tested positive for the virus? And then I know there is a larger percentage of the force which is out sick now.

DERMOT SHEA, COMMISSIONER, NYPD: That's right. Well, as I stand here tonight, about 1200 members of the department have tested positive.

That's on the uniform and civilian side. Most of them on uniform side. We know that that number is much higher. The tests continue to come in on a daily basis literally. Right about 5600 members now, just on the uniform side that are sick. Those numbers have been growing --

COOPER: So 5600 --

SHEA: -- as everyone has been say. Wherever this apex is --

COOPER: That's like 15% of the force, right, or 13? SHEA: That's right. Now we're at about a little over 15%.

COOPER: At what point does it become a serious hindrance? I mean, 15% of the work force out, that sounds like a lot to me. At what point does it become a hindrance to policing in the city?

SHEA: Well, it's causing us to, you know, think differently, certainly, and move resources around, do many things differently.

[20:35:00]

Everything we ask, everything that we throw at them, I'll tell you that the men and women in uniform and civilian are responding, they're handling it, and they really are proving why they're the finest.

What's helping us is many of the things that usually they are tied up on, whether it's parades, protests, crime -- crime has dropped in the last couple weeks. There's nobody on the streets. So, that is a silver lining, if you will, and a real tough situation.

COOPER: In terms of the equipment that you need, I mean, personal protective equipment, you know, not just like Tyvek suits for detectives, but I mean, gloves and masks for officers. Do you have supplies for that ready in need?

SHEA: We do. We do, and it's certainly a concern about running out. We've really revamped our supply chain internally. So it's -- our warehouse right to the commands that need it, set up a system so they can get it quicker. Really, message that back and forth, worked with the unions, our police foundation.

I mean, everyone across New York City is stepping up to make sure that we have what we need. But the same items that you hear about nightly from the doctors and nurses are really what's in supply here: masks, N95 masks, gloves, hand sanitizer, Tyvek suits. Those are the items that, really, for law enforcement are in great demand.

COOPER: Well, in a time like this, I'd like to work. I'm lucky enough to be able to still be working, and I see, you know, a lot of police in vehicles on the streets, and it's certainly a good feeling, as a lifelong New Yorker, you know, to see the police out on the streets at a time like this, and I appreciate all you and your officers are doing. Thank you.

SHEA: All right, thank you so much.

COOPER: Commissioner Shea, really appreciate it.

COOPER: Coming up, more on this, as the president casts doubts on urgent claims by some governors that they need ventilators. Say there are ventilators in the stockpile, in the federal stockpile. I'll talk to New Jersey's governor who says his state still is in desperate need of them. We'll be right back.

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[20:41:22]

COOPER: We've been discussing a U.S. death toll that could range from 100,000 to 240,000, and that number, of course, as you heard at the top of the program, depends on current stay-at-home orders.

In fact, tonight, the most recent updates show that nearly 80 percent of the country's population is under some form of stay-at-home orders from state or local officials.

Take a look at this map, though. It shows you just how many states do not have full state-wide stay-at-home orders. Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and Wyoming.

Joining me now, New Jersey's governor, Phil Murphy, whose state is one of those with state-wide stay-at-home orders.

Governor Murphy, when you see that list of all those states that don't have this -- it's kind of stunning to me that everybody now does not have it. What's your message to people out there about staying at home?

GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D), NEW JERSEY: Good to be with you, Anderson. I'm not sure I can give a message to those states, other than, I know in our state, please, God, stay at home.

And I have to believe, as Governor Cuomo has so eloquently said, that New York and New Jersey are the canary in the coal mine here. I wish it were otherwise, but the way we win this war is to break the back of the virus. Flatten that curve as aggressively as possible.

Basically, shut the state down, but for essential services, as we have done now for weeks. We started meeting on this in January, so this is something where you've just got to stay out ahead of it as much as possible.

At the same time you're doing that, you've got to build out your healthcare system -- beds, personal protective equipment, ventilators, healthcare workers. And those are the two fronts of the war, and we've got to fight it inch by inch, minute by minute.

COOPER: I know it's not your job to tell folks in other states, or other governors what to do in their states, but are you concerned at all that the people in your state and people here in New York are going to have to stay at home longer, because these other states haven't come to the realization that they need to do stay-at-home yet?

And once they do, that's going to prolong for everybody the amount of time that's maybe needed to stay at home?

MURPHY: Yeah, I mean, I said this today to our state. We're putting our people through hell and back. And by the way, we have to. This is a war. We have to behave like it's a war. There's no time to panic, but it is certainly no time for business as usual. But the last thing we need is, if we crack the back of this -- and we

will, we will succeed in this -- and we begin to slowly and responsibly get back on our feet, the last thing we need is for that to get undone. And we're going to do everything we can to make sure that doesn't happen. I promise you.

COOPER: What do you need now in your state?

MURPHY: Well, we need, I think, number one, more ventilators. We've been on the phone morning, noon and night with the White House. I was on with Admiral Giroir earlier, at the highest levels.

We need more personal protective equipment. We need more beds. And I want to give a shout out to FEMA and the Army Corps. They're helping us build four field hospitals, one of which I'm going to tour on Thursday.

And fourthly, our healthcare workers are heroic, first responders heroic. We need to back and fill and broaden their ranks. And we're in the process of signing up the equivalent of basically a medical corps in the state, with retired last semester students, out-of-staters, who can come in and help us out.

COOPER: I'm not looking to point fingers, but just in terms of trying to fix stuff that's not working, Governor Cuomo today talked about states competing against each other, essentially bidding and being played off against each other by these companies, with supplies, and then even FEMA coming in and outbidding states.

[20:45:00]

Is that a problem for New Jersey as well, in terms of getting supplies? And how do you fix that?

MURPHY: Listen, it's a challenge for all of us. We've gotten some slugs out of the federal strategic stockpile, God knows we need more. All of us are out there turning over every stone, bidding for every piece of equipment, every piece of personal protective equipment. Ventilators we can find.

But I will tell you this: there will be a day of reckoning for anybody out there who is trying to take advantage of this situation from a profiteering or price-gouging standpoint. Those folks will be held accountable in the strongest terms.

COOPER: Florida's governor, Ron DeSantis, said that the White House task force has not recommended a statewide stay-at-home order, and if they did, that would carry a lot of weight. Are you hoping -- do you think that for some of these states it's going to take a White House mandate?

MURPHY: I can't speak for those states, Anderson. I know this: again, we started meeting on this in January; we put our first whole-of- government task force together on Superbowl Sunday, so that's coming up on two months ago. It was quite clear, if you make decisions based on fact, science, the data, that you need to shut the place down. We did it in some smaller steps, and then we went aggressively and

shut the whole place down, except for essential services. I think those are steps that were, without question, in terms of if you base it on the science and facts. I'll leave it to others, but I don't see how you could come to a different conclusion.

COOPER: Governor Murphy, we're all in this together. I really appreciate it, sir. Thank you.

MURPHY: Great to be with you.

COOPER: Governor Phil Murphy, from New Jersey.

Straight ahead, I'll talk to my friend and colleague, Chris Cuomo, who, as you probably know, tested positive for the coronavirus. We'll check in with Chris in a moment.

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[20:51:00]

COOPER: And let's check in with Chris Cuomo. Chris, how are you feeling?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Sick. Look, you've had something kind of like what I'm dealing with right now.

COOPER: Really?

CUOMO: Well, I mean, you know, you've been somewhere in the world and you have got an flu-like virus --

COOPER: I had swine flu.

CUOMO: -- that can be bad. Right? You know, so it's sneaky because you think it's something else. A doctor told me today flu season's basically over, sinus infections and all those things, basically over.

Allergies, yes. But if you have anything that is draining you and giving you aches and fever, it very likely is this and it kind of comes in waves.

But you know as you can imagine, my big fear is that I may have given it to my wife and kids, it is killing me, Anderson, waiting to see how they are going to be in this. Because now I can't take care of them and what matters more to any parent?

COOPER: Well, you talked publicly about moving your mom out and I mean, that's a blessing that--that you guys did that.

CUOMO: Yeah, I mean, you know, Andrew didn't have to beat me over the head with it all day in the in the press conference, but his intentions are good. You know, your heart and head don't always arrive at the right conclusion.

And I love my mom, and I loved having her with us and I thought I was keeping her safe. But with what you and I do and what we're going to be doing over the next few months it was the wrong move and thank God, you know, Andrew had the presence of mind and others in the family and she's in an okay place.

But now I'm stuck in the basement for who knows how long. I can't get anything for my family, I can't do anything. Hopefully, I'll be able to keep doing the show but I don't know what the path forward is for me.

So I wanted people to know that I have it because one, if you think you're too strong for the virus you're wrong and if you think the virus is a death sentence you're probably wrong and I just hope people get the sense of the urgency we all need to have by saying that I have it, for better and worse.

COOPER: You're obviously just early on in this, did they tell you like what to expect moving forward? Or is it kind of different for everybody?

CUOMO: That's the spookiest part is they really don't know. And I've never dealt with that before in my life where, you know, usually whatever I have, they know what it is and they tell you about it and here's what you do and here's what you take.

They don't know and there's like nothing to take. And people throw all these remedies, malarial drugs and all that. The experts say, not only do they not know it works in these early protocols, but there are a lot of side effects and things that can happen for people. So it really is suck it up time. The best medicine is to not get it, prevention.

COOPER: Chris, talk about what you're going to be doing tonight.

CUOMO: So, look, I'm going to talk about this a little bit. But, obviously, I am not the story. Because there are so many people dealing with this, it's such an extreme and on the front lines we have people volunteering to fight this battle for us.

So we're going to look at the new conclusions and come to one that we should all share now. We're all on the same page, the President finally gets it. This isn't about a week or two weeks or some fake aspiration of Easter, we are in a long painful haul.

Forgot about the numbers, the reality is going to be all around us and I think it's the first time pretty much in our lifetime that we're going to see this country go through something together this way. So what do we need to do?

What are the manifestations of it around the country? And what does it mean for us going forward? We'll go deep with the best voices we can find.

COOPER: All right Chris, that will be about five minutes from now and take care, we'll be in touch.

CUOMO: Thank you. COOPER: All right, wish you the best. We will be right back in a few

minutes we are going to remember the coronavirus victims; a renowned neurosurgeon has died and others when we continue.

[20:54:40]

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COOPER: Tonight, as we have most nights, we want to pause and remember the lives of those lost in the pandemic so far. Dez-Ann Romain was a principal of the Brooklyn Democratic Academy, a transfer high school in New York City that's tailored towards students who have difficulty completing classes in more traditional high schools.

Her colleagues say she was deeply committed to her kids and her community. The Brooklyn borough president says she always tried to lift up her students. Where others saw problems, she saw potential. Dez-Ann Romain was 36 years ago old.

Ron Golden was a tough as nails US marine, according his sister, who said he was also a big teddy bear on the inside once you knew him. He died of the coronavirus almost two months to the day after his father passed away. Just weeks before he came down with the virus, Ron was diagnosed with cancer. He was a loving brother, uncle, a dad and husband. Ron Golden was 56 years old.

Dr. James Goodridge was a neurosurgeon, who was a friend to CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta. A renowned surgeon, a pioneer in his field, specializing in helping kids with neurological conditions. Sanjay says he witnessed Dr. Goodridge perform some of the most brilliant and complex surgeries that any doctor could do.

In 2016, Sanjay documented Dr. Goodridge as he led a team of 40 doctors for a 27-hour surgery to separate 13 month old twin boys who were born with conjoined brains. The surgery was a success. That was one of his specialties.

During the holidays, Dr. Goodridge was known to bake cookies and hand deliver them to his nurses. He never had kids of his own, but he considered kids he treated as his own. He was a real life hero. Dr. James Goodridge was 73 years old.

Our thoughts are with all the families impacted by this pandemic tonight. And before we hand it over to Chris, take a look. The Empire State Building shining in red and white in honor of the first responders on the front lines of this crisis who are risking their lives to help keep us all alive. The news continues. I want to hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME".

CUOMO: Anderson, as always, the perfect message. And Maybe more than ever. Those first responders are depending on us.

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