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U.S. Unemployment Benefit Claims Soar; British Prime Minister Remains in ICU; French President to Address Nation on Coronavirus; U.S. Death Toll over 14K; Samantha Power, Former U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Compares COVID-19 and Ebola Pandemics: New Zealand Aims for Elimination of COVID-19; New York Sees Highest Daily Death Toll; Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX) on Black Americans at Higher Risk for COVID-19; Bernie Sanders Drops Out of 2020 Race; U.K. Researchers Suggest Letting Young People Return to Work First; Pope Francis to Deliver Mass to Empty St. Peter's Basilica. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired April 9, 2020 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
HALA GORANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome, everybody, to our special coronavirus coverage. I'm Hala Gorani. A lot to get through this hour as we
continue to take you around the world with the very latest.
And when will the lockdowns end?
As we head into this holiday weekend in many parts of the world, different governments have different plans.
And the new U.S. jobless numbers just out. They are simply staggering. Another 6 million people filing claims for the first time, nearly 17
million in just the past three weeks.
Plus, I will speak to a senior member of President Obama's team about what the United States needs to do to flatten the curve.
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GORANI: Well, as the number of coronavirus cases nears 1.5 million, different countries are taking different approaches with regard to the
current safety measures and the way forward.
Here in the U.K., for instance, lawmakers are holding an emergency meeting on whether to extend the lockdown already in place.
Meanwhile, the Spanish prime minister is asking Parliament for a longer state of emergency.
France's president is expected to announce another extension of confinement orders there, next week. But other countries are going in the opposite
direction. You see it on the map, highlighted in yellow.
As of today, for example, the Czech Republic is allowing some shops to reopen. Austria will do the same next week and both Norway and Denmark
announced plans to soon reopen some schools.
In New Zealand, some much needed good news: for four straight days now, the country has seen a decrease in the number of COVID-19 cases. Only one
death has been reported there so far. Geographically they're at an advantage.
And Germany's health minister says the country is ready to gradually return to normal after Easter as long as current measures are followed over the
holiday weekend.
So let us begin with the very latest from London here and the conditions, the health conditions of the prime minister, Boris Johnson, who remains in
intensive care. Nick Paton Walsh is live at 10 Downing Street with the very latest.
What are we hearing about how the prime minister is doing, Nick?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Well, fair to say for the first time today we had the phrase "improved" being used by his
spokespeople. Yesterday he was stable and responding to treatment. Now a spokesperson saying he, quote, "continues to improve."
He had a, quote, "good night and continues to improve." He is in good spirits, a phrase we consistently hear. They're saying that he is receiving
standard oxygen treatment.
That all, of course, good news for a British public that I'm sure have been equally stunned at the virus' indiscriminate ability to attack the
country's leader but also hoping for recovery so we can get the man back at the helm who has to make the difficult decisions moving forward, Hala.
GORANI: And what about the lockdown here?
I know they're holding a meeting now, will it be extended beyond Easter or not?
WALSH: I have to say the signal being given so far particularly from welsh Officials, the United Kingdom has different parts of government, they
suggested they would continue with parts of the lockdown, the mayor of London said he thinks it will be foolish not to continue.
We have indications from junior ministers we're going to see a continued furthermost likely. A complicated task because the man who would normally
make the decision between differing dynamics, the treasury, who want to get the economy running again and the department of health, who want to save as
many lives as possible and not see the NHS collapse in the event that you open society up again simply can't contend with the number of cases, you
would normally expect the prime minister to be the man who takes the path through that and makes the decision.
Instead, his first secretary of state, the foreign secretary Dominic Raab will be the man sitting in the chair during that meeting. Though it does
appear frankly that the path ahead is pretty likely to see on Monday or possibly sooner an extension of the restrictions.
Whether or not there will be some exceptions for age groups or schools, kind of unclear at this point. We're just reaching the peak here in the
United Kingdom. Yesterday officials pointing out some parts of the graph seem to be ebbing downward.
The question is, is that really good enough reason to bring everyone out again and risk them going back up again?
[10:05:00]
GORANI: That's a question we'll be exploring throughout the hour for our viewers, should lockdowns be extended, should some restrictions be lifted?
We're going to be talking about that in more detail. Nick Paton Walsh is at 10 Downing Street, thank you very much.
Scott McLean is in Madrid, where the prime minister is asking there for an extension of the lockdown, even though there have been some encouraging
numbers.
What is the latest where you are?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Hala, the Spanish parliament is going through the process of voting to extend this state of emergency until
April 26th. The prime minister warned that it is likely that in another two weeks they'll be back in front of his colleagues in parliament asking for a
further extension into May.
There is some good news, though. That's that the government will allow some nonessential workers to go back to their jobs beginning on Monday. This
applies to sectors like manufacturing and construction. It does not mean that the bars, restaurants and shops like the ones behind me will be opened
anytime soon.
Today the increase in the number of active cases was less than a thousand. That's for the second day in a row, the first time that that has happened
in almost a month. The number of deaths, though, still high, almost 700; it's a lot lower than the peak.
There is a real question, though, about the accuracy of the official numbers that the government is putting out. Analysis done by my colleagues
and I show, in the last half of March, in Madrid, there were 3,000 plus more deaths than there are on average during that same time period that
were not attributed to the coronavirus, suggesting the real death toll is likely much higher.
Case in point, the Madrid regional government says thousands of people have died in nursing homes with coronavirus symptoms but, since they were never
tested, they weren't added to the official tally.
The government will tell you, look, its counting is in line with WHO and European guidelines, they count every death that has tested positive for
the coronavirus. The problem obviously is they are not testing or not counting, I should say, people who haven't officially been tested, Hala.
GORANI: And there have been some complaints, especially from healthcare workers -- and we spoke to the Spanish foreign minister yesterday about
that -- that they weren't getting the protective equipment that they need, that they feel like their lives are at risk as a result of having to work
on the front lines of this pandemic.
What is the latest with that?
Because the foreign minister told me they were addressing those issues.
Is that what you're hearing from doctors and nurses?
MCLEAN: Sure, so this is one of the most stunning statistics I think in this entire country. So at last count there were some 20,000 healthcare
workers that had tested positive for the virus. That means that, of all of the confirmed positive tests in this country, one out of every seven is a
healthcare worker. It is stunning.
At the beginning of this outbreak, of this lockdown, health officials or doctors and nurses inside hospitals told us that they weren't getting the
protective equipment that they needed. Some were using garbage bags as medical gowns, re-using single use masks.
They say that the situation has undoubtedly improved, it is not perfect but it is better than it once was. So they're hoping that those numbers of
healthcare workers being infected will start to go down as with the rest of the curve that seems to be flattening in Spain so far, Hala.
GORANI: All right, let's hope they get all the protective equipment they need. That statistic is staggering when it comes to healthcare workers in
Spain. Scott McLean, from the very empty streets of Madrid, thanks very much.
Let's move on to France here as we continue our tour. France is waiting to hear from their president, Emmanuel Macron, on the latest measures to
contain this spread of the coronavirus just as the country enters a recession. Cyril Vanier joins us now.
What are we expecting the French president to say this evening?
CYRIL VANIER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Hala, Emmanuel Macron will address the nation on Monday. There was confusion coming from the palace on when
exactly he would address the nation. And they did originally say it would be today but it was then announced it would be on Monday.
And I think part of the reason in fact for that confusion coming from the presidency is that the president and the government at large are still
looking for answers. As we speak, Hala, the president is meeting -- is in Marseille, meeting with the now famous or infamous, depending how you look
at it, Professor Hout, a French medical doctor, held in high regard but who was in the center of controversy a couple of weeks ago when he said that
this molecule hydroxychloroquine could be a cure for the coronavirus.
And, of course, there are other countries that have since said, look, he's putting people at risk by saying this because we haven't done all the
proper tests.
[10:10:00]
VANIER: Nonetheless, around the world, in France and in other countries, people are using this molecule. Bottom line, Hala, to your question, the
president is still looking for answers. And we don't know what they are.
We do have an outline, we know that to come out of this crisis and to start going back to some semblance of normal life, France is going to have to be
able to test the population on a massive scale.
And now the tests are being worked on and developed but they won't be available until at the earliest at the very end of this month or early May
and that is why the stay at home orders have already been extended and we expect by several weeks.
And also France is looking for a cure on a national level and on a European level. And that is what the president has involved himself with today. He
was at a hospital in Paris earlier to see where those hospital trials stand.
And he's meeting as I said with Dr. Hout, presumably to talk about what this doctor touted as a cure, hydroxychloroquine. So the president
gathering all this information before he makes his announcement on Monday.
GORANI: All right, thanks very much. We'll wait for the Monday then appearance by the president and not this evening. Cyril Vanier, who
apparently has many books left to read while on lockdown behind him there. Thank you very much.
Now the pandemic continues to trigger some devastating job losses around the world, some furloughs as well, reduced hours for some people and this
statistic is really jaw dropping. Another 6.6 million Americans filed for unemployment benefits last week.
That is the second largest number of initial unemployment claims since the U.S. started tracking these numbers in the '60s. Nearly 17 million
Americans have sought jobless benefits over the -- just the last three weeks.
Joining me now is CNN business editor at large Richard Quest, in New York City.
So 16.5, give or take, million new jobless claims in just the last three weeks. Talk to us about the impact on the U.S. economy.
RICHARD QUEST, CNNMONEY EDITOR AT LARGE: It is devastating. The economy has just about ground to a halt, in fact it has. There will be a recession,
whether it is two quarters or three quarters long. It is under still debate.
And time and again the Fed comes to the rescue, this morning, as those jobless numbers came out, the Fed came out with another $2 trillion in
lending facilities, specifically geared to small and medium sized businesses employing more than 500 people.
What happened, what happened, Hala, is that businesses have furloughed layoffs and staff. And therefore those staffs have now started to claim
unemployment benefits. What the government is doing is trying to create these various programs that will bring the staff back on to the payrolls of
the companies and, of course, they'll receive grants or loans from the government.
It is two ways of getting to exactly the same order, the U.S. government is backing the payroll of American workers as it is doing, as the U.K.
government is doing, as the French government is doing, as the German government is doing.
GORANI: Government help there very welcome. Even it appears by people who usually are critics of notion of the government stepping in and the Federal
Reserve is adding to the stimulus measures.
The big outstanding question is how long would it take for companies to rehire these people, to put them back on the payroll for the economy to
start functioning again?
QUEST: It is going to take a lot longer. Three plans, the small business plan, which isn't even the main street plan, isn't even in existence yet;
the payroll protection plan is overwhelmed and stuttering to start; no meaningful loans having been received by anybody.
The emergency relief loans, they have yet to be received. So it is a very slow start. I suspect it is going to be like an oil tanker. It will be slow
to start and then pick up speed. But, Hala, we really need to have -- there is one statistic doing the rounds today, we're trying to verify, I'll give
it to you anyway, something like 30 percent of people couldn't pay their rent.
It is -- or that there is an extraordinary large number of people who either can't or won't or are having financial difficulties at the moment,
in the U.S. and around the world. And the only saviors at the moment seem to be central banks.
GORANI: Yes. It is just amazing how quickly things can collapse when your economy essentially comes to a standstill. It takes no time at all. Richard
Quest, thank you very much. We will see you on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" a little bit later.
Joining me from the White House is our correspondent John Harwood.
And, we have been talking about countries around the world and Europe specifically.
[10:15:00]
GORANI: Some are easing lockdown restrictions, others are asking for extensions of these containment measures.
What does the president want to see happen with regard to limiting the movement of Americans to try to limit the spread of the virus?
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, clearly, Hala, the president wants to get the economy restarted as soon as possible. But he
recognizes, I think, when he talks to his public health officials, that a normal economy cannot restart unless you ease the fears of people about the
coronavirus.
In fact, we have a CNN poll this week that shows 60 percent of the American people say they would not be comfortable simply ending social distancing on
April 30th. Last night, when the president conducted his daily briefing and was asked, would you commit to reopening the economy on May 1, he would not
endorse that date.
He said we'll talk to the experts and figure it out. Now I do think the White House is trying to be forward leaning and look at ways in which
whatever parts of the economy can be restarted, whatever kinds of workers can resume their function in society will be able to do so.
But one of the real challenges is as we have seen these huge numbers of jobless claims is many businesses are going to cease to exist, even with
the government help that we have.
There are all sorts of -- as Richard was outlining -- facilities and programs that we have come up with to try to keep businesses rolling, keep
people on their payroll.
But that's not going to work 100 percent in any case. So businesses are going to be failing and it is going to be hard. It is not going to be the
flip of a switch whenever we end social distancing.
GORANI: All right, John Harwood, thank you very much. Difficult days ahead.
Joining me now is Samantha Power, she was the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations under president Barack Obama. She helped lead an international
response to the Ebola outbreak in 2014. And she joins me now from Massachusetts.
Thanks for being with us.
So how does what is happening now compare to Ebola?
SAMANTHA POWER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Well, it is different, first of all, just the breadth of its spread more than a million cases
worldwide now in just about every country, in Africa even, though that's getting less focus. So Ebola, there was not an airborne disease in the same
way. And we were able collectively.
But really thanks to the front line work of people in new Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia to keep it largely contained within the three countries
of West Africa and despite predicts of 1.4 million infections and hundreds of thousands of deaths, to bend the curve far sooner than we've managed in
the COVID case.
GORANI: The U.N. Security Council, we haven't really seen the U.N. -- we heard from the secretary-general -- but be very vocal about this worldwide
pandemic.
What is going on there, do you think?
POWER: I think part of what I learned as U.N. ambassador is that, like many group settings, there is a colossal collective action problem at the
United Nations unless a country or sometimes partnerships of countries step forward to catalyze the creation of global coalitions.
So what is happening at the U.N. Security Council, it's meeting virtually on a bunch of issues and can't agree on anything. And the fact it can't
agree on anything stems from the fact largely that the United States is insisting, I think quite pettily, on focusing on calling it the Wuhan virus
and scoring political points in its rivalry with China, rather than showing global resolve and rather than trying to spur a sense of solidarity among
countries who are focused on their own.
For a country like the United States that is so far behind where it should be at this point in terms of protective equipment, ventilators and all the
rest, absolutely that focus makes sense.
But if we -- the United States but also the other countries and the Security Council aren't looking ahead at the extent to which this pandemic
hitting the developing world is going to blow back to developed countries, we're missing the point.
GORANI: And then the -- one of the issues is that poorer countries aren't getting the equipment that they need sometimes, the protective equipment,
the testing kits because richer countries, whether in Europe or the United States, are outbidding them on the open market.
As you pointed out, in an editorial you wrote, so long as this problem exists in one part of the world, it exists for everyone.
How do you remedy that?
POWER: Well, what you just read, this idea that we're connected and that what happens, unless we stop it raging, you know in a country like
Bangladesh, in the refugee camps where Rohingya are crowded, that creates a vulnerability for us.
[10:20:00]
POWER: That view, which is I think factually unassailable, is not the view of the president of the United States. He has a view we'll just continue to
cut off flights to those parts of the world and he's not moved by the humanitarian catastrophe itself.
And, again, understandably he and other world leaders are focused on their own citizens. That's their job. But if you're focused on your own citizens,
you've got to look down the field and you have to see the degree of connectivity we have with, for example, a country like Bangladesh, where
much of our supply chain goes to Bangladesh.
So many of American families are connected to people living in India, Nigeria, Somalia. So between trade ties, the global supply chain, family
connections, we're in this together.
And the key is to walk and chew gum at the same time, to deal with the national crises that exists, while also using the different personnel you
have to build global coalitions, diplomats, public health professionals, who do international work, to build a kind of global coalition that we
built in the Ebola context.
Yes, a different context but the muscle memory is there. We know what it is like to pool resources from lots of different countries who are
experiencing this pandemic in a staggered way. That creates advantages to learn from countries that have come first and to pull those resources and
to employ them deploy them to countries that can't afford to get them on the market.
GORANI: Samantha Power, we know this president is not going to go down that road. Past experience tells us he has criticized, sometimes attacked,
sometimes withdrawn the United States from international alliances.
In the middle of a pandemic, even threatening to withdraw money from the World Health Organization.
So in the absence of that scenario, materializing, what other solution can there be here to come up with some sort of global response?
POWER: I think what you're -- first of all, Trump cares above all about Trump and so the fact he wants to return the United States to normalcy
ahead of the November election in this country might be an incentive to recognize that when those infections are raging and there are hot spots
around the world, that that will affect him and his own political prospects, because it will slow America's own recovery. So just to say
that.
But agreeing with your point, this perspective I'm offering, which I think is objective and factual is not his perspective and he's never let facts
get in the way of his view of something.
I think what you're seeing already is individual actors, private actors trying to step into the void. For example, Bill Gates, you know, himself,
acting almost like a secretary of state, trying to hustle resources from different countries in the hope of being able to create some kind of pool
that then can be divvied up among countries that face acute vulnerability.
But there is no substitute for governmental leadership. A country like the United States or China now has embassies or consulates in all the countries
of the world, in more than 200 countries and territories.
And the ability through those contacts to ensure that manufacturing is done not only to cater to one's only national population but to look out for
those who aren't going to be able to procure those items themselves, that's something you need this vast diplomatic network to tap.
China can do some of it. But it has never done it before. And China cannot be counted on to deal with the governance issues associated with this. For
example, Bangladesh shutting down the Internet in the Rohingya refugee camps. That won't make it easy for refugees to learn what they can do
themselves in order to blunt their vulnerability to the virus.
It is going to be very difficult even if they do know what to do because social distancing is so hard in such circumstances. But there is a piece of
this that China won't do. The United States is not going to do it, it will have to be the secretary-general, private citizens and European governments
stepping up in ways that they're not used to doing.
They're used to following America's lead, teaming up, always being there at America's side. But to actually take the initiative and lead on this is
something that going to have to be built on the fly.
GORANI: Well, it certainly is, this pandemic changing the world, perhaps in even lasting ways. Samantha Power, thank you very much for joining us
from Concord, Massachusetts.
Be sure to join us on CNN little bit later. There is a town hall hosted by Anderson Cooper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta. They'll bring you the latest facts
and answer some of your questions about the pandemic. That's 8:00 in the evening Thursday in New York, 8:00 am Friday morning in Hong Kong.
Still to come, we take a look at one country that says containing coronavirus is not enough.
[10:25:00]
GORANI: Instead, the goal is elimination. We'll be right back.
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GORANI: Well, New Zealand has reported a decline in new coronavirus cases for the fourth straight day. The country has just over 1,200 confirmed
cases and only one death reported so far. But even with numbers so low and the country already in the midst of a shutdown, leaders are focused not
just on containing the virus but completely eliminating it.
Will it succeed?
Ivan Watson reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the midst of a deadly pandemic sweeping the globe, the leader of New Zealand
sounds a note of optimism.
JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: I remain cautiously optimistic that we are starting to turn a corner.
WATSON (voice-over): Since the beginning of the outbreak, New Zealand has identified more than 1,200 coronavirus cases and suffered just one death.
(On camera): Do you think New Zealand has lessons to offer other countries with how it has dealt with this crisis?
SIOUXSIE WILES, MICROBIOLOGIST, UNIVERSITY OF AUCKLAND: I think the go hard, go early is the lesson. But obviously, we are not out of the woods
yet.
WATSON (voice-over): New Zealand identified its first case of coronavirus on February 28. Less than three weeks later, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern
announced New Zealand would become one of the first democracies to shut its borders.
ARDERN: From 11:59 p.m. tonight, we will close our border to any non- residents and citizens attempting to travel here.
WATSON (voice-over): The ban on foreign visitors, a dramatic move for an island nation whose economy depends on tourism.
ARDERN: Over the past few weeks, the world has changed and it has changed very quickly.
WATSON (voice-over): Two days later, a rare address from the prime minister's office, not seen in New Zealand in decades, outlining a response
plan. Just four days after that, Ardern imposed a state of emergency and announced a nationwide shutdown.
ARDERN: -- we head into the next four weeks. Stay at home. It will break the chain of transmission and it will save lives.
WATSON (voice-over): Enforcement hasn't been easy. Police received tens of thousands of reports of people ignoring the lockdown, including these
surfers. But the most egregious case came from the country's health minister.
DAVID CLARK, NEW ZEALAND HEALTH MINISTER: And I was wrong.
WATSON (voice-over): Ardern demoted but did not fire him after he drove his family to the beach for a walk.
CLARK: I had been an idiot if I'm being frank and I understand why people will be angry with me.
WATSON (voice-over): Ardern was thrust into the international spotlight last year when an Australian gunman massacred Muslims in the city of
Christchurch. Seventy-two hours after the deadliest mass shooting in New Zealand's history, Ardern announced a ban on semiautomatic weapons while
also consoling a traumatized nation.
ARDERN: Good evening, everyone.
[10:30:00]
WATSON (voice-over): In this latest crisis, the 39-year-old has shown her softer side, broadcasting live on Facebook in a sweatshirt and sending a
message to children that despite the lockdown, the Easter bunny is still an essential worker.
ARDERN: If the Easter bunny doesn't make it to your household, we have to understand that it's a bit difficult at the moment for the bunny to perhaps
get everywhere.
WATSON (voice-over): It is far too early to say whether New Zealand's strategy will succeed, but there may some lessons here for other countries
grappling with coronavirus -- Ivan Watson, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, to all the kids, as we just heard from Jacinda Ardern, the Easter Bunny is an essential worker, very important.
Still to come, we get back to the grim numbers out of the United States.
Why are so many of the COVID-19 deaths there among minority populations?
I'll be speaking to the co-chair of the House Coronavirus Task Force about that.
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GORANI: All right, let us start with the United States this half hour. The U.S. had its deadliest day yet, just over the last 24 hours since the
outbreak began. The country reported more than 1,900 deaths on Wednesday, the most in a single day.
So far COVID-19 has killed nearly 15,000 people and now more than 432,000 confirmed cases. That's the most of any country. A jail in Chicago is now
the largest known source of coronavirus infections across the states. Hundreds of cases have been linked to it.
And despite advice from health experts, president Donald Trump is considering reopening the economy as early as next month.
Now New York is the epicenter of the outbreak in the United States. It had its highest single day death toll as well, since the outbreak began, with
more than 700 deaths and 5,000 new cases.
A new study shows most of New York's cases originated in Europe and other parts of the United States. Meanwhile, the state is also seeing an alarming
trend, with minorities making up most of the deaths. Athena Jones has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Governor Andrew Cuomo, it's a tough balance, mourning the loss of thousands of New Yorkers,
while seeing some positive signs in the decrease of hospitalizations across New York state.
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): It is an emotional time, it's a stressful time for everyone. It is not going to get better anytime soon. That's the truth.
We are flattening the curve. We have to maintain it.
[10:35:00]
CUOMO: But the human cost here, the human toll, the suffering is just incredible.
JONES (voice-over): Early data show black and Latino people make up 62 percent of reported fatalities but only half of the city's population.
CUOMO: I also believe the front line workers do have a greater exposure than most people. I think that's one of the things we'll find when we do
this research on why is the infection rate higher with the African American community and the Latino community.
JONES (voice-over): A model often cited by the White House suggests coronavirus related deaths will be lower than initially projected, thanks
to social distancing.
DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: That is modeled on what America is doing.
JONES (voice-over): Still, Dr. Anthony Fauci reminding Americans the upcoming weeks and months will be extremely tough.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The most striking thing that is sobering to us is when, we see the number
of deaths, we know now for sure that the mitigation that we have been doing is having a positive effect. But you don't see it until weeks later.
JONES (voice-over): For the essential workers like first responders and grocery store employees keeping the country going, the CDC issuing new
guidelines for those who may get exposed to the coronavirus, saying they can return to their jobs if they are asymptomatic, take their temperature
before work, wear a face mask at all times and practice social distancing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the most important things we can do is keep our critical workforce working.
JONES (voice-over): People familiar with the discussions tell CNN Trump's aides are examining ways to reopen the U.S. economy as soon as May. But
officials like California's governor Gavin Newsom say it is too soon to lift safety guidelines.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): While the curve is bent, bending in the state of California, it is also stretching. And at any moment we pull back, you can
see that curve go back up.
JONES (voice-over): The nation's top infectious disease doctor agrees.
FAUCI: We need to keep mitigating. We know this is something that is a strain on the American public. But it is just something that we have not
only the only tool, it is the best tool.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: That's Athena Jones reporting.
Joining me now is Congresswoman Sheila Jackson-Lee, Democrat from Texas, the co-chair of the U.S. House Coronavirus Task Force.
Thanks for joining us. First off, what is the data concerning the infection rate and the death rate among minorities in the United States?
Do we have those numbers?
REP. SHEILA JACKSON-LEE (D-TX): Let me first say my deepest sympathy to all of those who have lost their battle, lost their fight --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: Congresswoman?
LEE: -- and have died. And certainly those here in the United States --
GORANI: All right, I am not hearing Congresswoman Jackson-Lee.
LEE: Hello?
I'm on. Can you hear me?
First of all, let me say --
GORANI: I am not hearing you. Oh, I'm hearing you now. I'm hearing you now.
LEE: All right.
GORANI: Go ahead.
LEE: Thank you. Thank you. First of all, my deepest sympathy to all of those who lost their battle, their fight against coronavirus and to their
families. You know, the difficulty we have here in the United States is that we have spotty numbers.
We know that in Chicago, 72 percent of those who died were African American. In my hometown of Houston and recent numbers, 64 percent of those
who died are African Americans, even though our numbers are low and we're very grateful for that and the work that has been done in this community.
The challenge is that we're finding numbers throughout the epicenters of New York and New Orleans and I imagine in California, that people of color
are impacted. So we know that there were missteps by the federal government at the very start.
And one of those major missteps was not having massive testing. That has probably plagued Europe and other places that did not do it. By not having
massive testing, diagnostic testing, you can't determine the potential hot spots or the community spread.
The other thing is that the issue of deaths in the African American community has been blamed or said to be on the basis of underlying
conditions.
But it should be noted, Hala, those people live with those underlying conditions and some of them have very full lives. I think one of the issues
were the outreach to that community of explaining, using the mediums that those communities interact with, black press and black radio.
I don't think that was done at all and the fact we have health systems that sometimes create a large number of uninsured, that was also a problem. So
we can fault the processes that did not work.
[10:40:00]
LEE: Now it is crucial we move forward with stimulus package four, we have stimulus package three, to make sure the uninsured are taken care of, the
homeless are taken care of, to make sure the testing, both diagnostic and testing antibodies after someone added and survived and a lot of those who
survived, we're grateful for that, to use that to stem the tide of the loss of life in the African American community and other communities of color
that are equally impacted as well.
GORANI: And Congresswoman, you mentioned the lack of mass testing, not just in the United States, where we are here in the United Kingdom, that's
been a big criticism in other countries where we don't have accurate numbers of how this virus disproportionately affects some communities.
But if you would like to remedy that, legislatively, we know the House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer wants a bill to reflect this imbalance.
How do you practically do it?
Are you advocating for more relief for minorities or for the banks to lend more favorable rates to minority or female owned businesses?
How would you like to see this happen?
LEE: That was two parallel directions, I'm grateful to the leadership, they have been stupendous, including Speaker Pelosi, dealing with the
issues that deal with people. So the economic aspect has been the brain child of the Democratic members of Congress, working in a bipartisan manner
to ensure that all of the elements that would create a pathway of survival, meaning the economic elements, are there.
And we particularly focused on our sole proprietors and self-employed and independent contractors, very small businesses, as we have to relate to big
businesses as well. And also the unemployment. We need that to provide the kind of support system for those low income families and many people of
color who depend on those dollars.
But at the same time, we have got to build up the health infrastructure. And that means we got to guarantee testing, with no charge and we need to
move it across the nation in places where people are not even thinking of it, maybe, in the South, more down here in Texas, more in Houston.
People are asking for tests and not able to access tests. So I think we have to do in a twofold way. Moneys to hospitals, to help the epicenters of
our nation, give them the ventilators and the hospital beds they need.
But in order to stop the epicenter, I believe you have to guarantee no charge testing and provide the health safety net for people and the income
and the protection against food insecurity.
We have never done this before, America is a huge country, it is a country of great prosperity. Now we have to really tighten the belts and spend the
money in order to be able to save lives. That is the most important element.
GORANI: Can I get you -- so this is obviously a massive healthcare crisis. It is also a political story because the president has been appearing at
these daily briefings, you've criticized and other Democrats have criticized the administration's approach.
Do you believe with Bernie Sanders dropping out of the race or suspending his campaign that Joe Biden is well positioned, do you think, to, you know,
beat the president in November, to be a really sort of electorally -- challenger to the president?
LEE: Well, let me just say we thank Senator Sanders for the great leadership he continues to give. I have great respect for him. And
certainly I have known Vice President Biden, his leadership, his compassion. I think all of us now are focusing on fighting the coronavirus
and being victorious.
We're doing it in many instances in a bipartisan way. But my values are heavily associated with the compassion, leadership and knowledge of Vice
President Biden. We'll have that opportunity to be in a real battle as we go toward November and the constitutional timeframe of a presidential
election that must occur.
But we are going to see now Vice President Biden be more visible on solutions, as he has shared with both his supporters and those of
leadership around him, we'll see more of that and we hope and pray the best for the nation and those who are in leadership now, to focus their
attention on saving lives in this nation.
We'll have that opportunity for major political battle of value as we go forward in the 2020 election. I'm going to be in prayer today, we're trying
to encourage Houstonians to take a moment of prayer at 12:00 noon. I'll be in prayer to be able to bring this to a resolution.
[10:45:00]
LEE: And I think all of our leaders should do the same throughout the timeframe that we're fighting this and as well recognizing that disparate
groups, people of color, are experiencing devastation, even though this is not a disease that is of color, it impacts everyone. But we have to work to
solve these problems.
GORANI: Congresswoman Sheila Jackson-Lee of Texas, thanks very much for joining us.
A lot more to come this hour. Countries across the globe are taking some huge economic hits as we have seen with the U.S. jobless numbers.
So how do you start getting back to business?
One study suggests young people should be allowed to get back to work. We'll be right back.
But first, switching gears, we show you how some entrepreneurs are trying to harness the potential of Australia's massive coastlines. Here is John
Defterios.
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JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: The water is alluring at any of Australia's 12,000 beaches. And the ocean's power is obvious.
But what if its energy could harnessed to reduce Australia's dependence on fossil fuels?
JENNY HAYWARD: The majority of the power in the national energy market is from coal, so mainly black coal. We also have wind and solar PDs (ph).
DEFTERIOS (voice-over): While solar and wind power are getting cheaper and more widely adopted, we can never be certain that the sun will shine or the
wind will blow to create dispatchable electricity.
Local green energy entrepreneur Douglas Hunt believes his company has an underwater turbine that can capture the power of Australia's coast.
As the sea moves in fully predictable tidal currents.
DOUGLAS HUNT: As the tide flows in this direction, it turns the blades, which drives the generator inside the turbine to one turbine in a
constantly flowing environment will be enough for up to 20 households.
DEFTERIOS: They want their turbine to work for energy consumers big and small, from a coal fired power plant in Australia, looking to add green
energy into its operation, to off grid coastal communities around the world.
HUNT: We want to contribute to an energy mix that is less reliant on fossil fuels by empowering local communities and businesses, generating
their own power from a predictable and abundant resource that is hiding in plain sight, often flowing directly past businesses and communities,
untapped and underutilized.
DEFTERIOS: Tidal turbines have been scaled up around the world. That has come with construction costs ranging into the hundreds of millions of
dollars.
HUNT: Tidal energy is a relatively new entry into the energy mix in Australia and around the world. Tidal turbines have been around but the
challenge has been to build them cost effectively.
DEFTERIOS: Underwater farms could one day plug into Australia's national electricity market, according to experts in energy economics. If innovators
like Mako keep bringing costs down.
Right now the Mako turbine produces electricity at around 3 cents per kilowatt hour in constantly flowing water. That's less than the cost of
energy from large solar farms in the United States.
The opportunity in Australia now is for small scale tidal power to play into a mix. Or help coastal homes and businesses go green by going off
grid. A big task but one we can draw closer to achieving with each passing time -- John Defterios, CNN.
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[10:50:00]
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GORANI: Well, at some point we're going to have to lift the lockdown measures.
Big question is when, how, how slowly, how quickly, who should be allowed to go out and work and who should stay home in order to keep the wider
society safe?
Now a pair of researchers think they might have an answer to that question. They released a study indicating young people might be the key.
Are you wondering whether or not you're young?
Here is how they define it, 20 to 30 years old, anything over that, you might be too old, you should not be living with your parents, you should be
the first to go back to work according to them.
They believe about 4 million people fit into this category in the United Kingdom and could help restart the economy, as you can imagine this brings
up all kinds of questions and concerns. One of the authors of that study is Professor Andrew Oswald, he joins me now live.
You say releasing young adults could be the best way out of a lockdown.
What about, you know, fears that they interact with older people, they'll be in public transport, come into contact with vulnerable people?
What is your response to that?
ANDREW OSWALD, UNIVERSITY OF WARWICK: First let me say we don't think this should happen yet, the United Kingdom, like many countries, is very largely
locked down. This is something for the future. But the key point is that eventually the Western economies and around the world more generally will
have to restart their economies.
There aren't going to be any very simple ways forward or painless ways unless we get a vaccine very fast. Now the key thing that we know about
COVID-19 is there is a very strong age gradient, in plain English the young are far, far safer than the old in almost all countries, certainly mine,
they're also much more vulnerable to unemployment and low wages.
So we can think of a number of reasons why the young might be released first, if they're not living with their parents and they want to interact
with older people, they are very substantially safe and they especially will need the money. So they could engender the prosperity that the rest of
us could follow.
GORANI: Professor, just full disclosure, I didn't hear the beginning of your answer but I did read some of the other interviews you gave my
colleagues on -- in other TV networks.
So is that -- how is that different from the herd immunity strategy?
And do you have any concerns, for instance, if young people are allowed out, they'll start crowding the pubs, the parks and make it impossible for
anyone else to be able to be outside on any level?
OSWALD: The key thing about the young is that they're so safe, compared to all other age groups. The standard epidemiology says the fatality risk
among people aged between 20 years and 30 years is 3:10,000.
If we look at people in their 60s, the risk is 75 times that. So this tells us how much safer the young are. They also need the money, much more than
others. I think it is fine if the young want to crowd around the young because of their intrinsic ability to withstand this nasty disease, that
they do give us a way forward as long as they are not living with their parents.
Of course, that's a key part of our proposal and they will have to agree to stay away from older people. That's already happening in my country and
very probably yours because of social distancing.
GORANI: Yes. Andrew Oswald, thank you very much, economics professor at University of Warwick.
We'll be right back. Stay with us.
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[10:55:00]
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GORANI: Well, it is a Holy Week for billions of Christians around the world, for the last few years Pope Francis spent Thursday washing the feet
of prisoners during this time. This year, obviously, there is social distancing at play.
And that is putting a halt to many of the traditions; lockdowns have prevented almost all travel and congregating in Italy, leaving St. Peter's
Square empty. You see it there. The pope will deliver his last supper mass to an empty basilica, as he did this Palm Sunday.
Well, the fear and anxiety of the pandemic has people all over the world just longing to get away. They can't, obviously. These three explorers did
just that a few hours ago. Two Russian cosmonauts and one American astronaut are trading one type of isolation for another, for their mission
on the International Space Station.
The three blasted off from the Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan, they were in quarantine even longer than usual because of the pandemic. But they will
soon be getting a view like this of our struggling planet.
Residents already working on the space station have been sharing tips with their fellow earthlings about maintaining physical and mental health, even
when you cannot go out in public. We all sorely need it.
Thanks very much for watching this hour. More ahead on CNN. I'm Hala Gorani. I'll see you next time.
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