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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Trump Insists Coronavirus Crisis Is Being Handled; New C.D.C. Forecast Says Nearly 148,000 U.S. COVID-19 Deaths By July 25th; Texas Gov. Issues Executive Order Requiring Masks In Public; Why Europe Is Beating The Virus, And The U.S. Is Not; "The Outpost" On Demand, At Some Theaters Friday; Based On Best-Selling Book By CNN's Jake Tapper. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 2, 2020 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Roaring, that is not the full story. It is better than economists predicted, but this report only reflects through June 12th, really, just as the new spikes began and before many states started reversing course on opening. There is a lot of uncertainty still about the future.
Thanks for joining us tonight. We will you tomorrow. AC 360 starts now.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Good evening. I'm Jim Sciutto. At the end of a day in which President Trump said that we, as a country are getting the coronavirus outbreak under control, and a day before he attends another massive mask optional event, with no social distancing.
We begin tonight with hard facts showing that four months into this pandemic, this country has failed to bring it under control, and we are now on the eve of another pivotal moment for the country, a holiday weekend that one infectious disease specialist warrants could be the perfect storm for a new spike in cases, on top of the one we are already seeing.
First, quickly, the President's claim that all is well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: China was way early, and they're getting under control just now. And Europe was way early, and they're getting under control. We followed them with this terrible China virus, and we are likewise getting under control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Facts don't back that up. The President says Europe got the outbreak under control, and now, so are we. Well, keeping them honest, only the first part of that claim is true. They did, the U.S. simply has not.
Take a look. That is the U.S. there in green, the European Union in pink. Both lines a few weeks apart rose at almost identical rates, and you see that pink line representing Europe falling. You see the E.U. as the President said getting things under control.
As for this country, well, the green line dips, get stuck and is climbing again, just as steeply as before, but to be clear, not as it was at the beginning from zero. It is now shooting up from a baseline of 25,000.
Just yesterday, the nationwide daily case count topped 50,000. The data is from Johns Hopkins University. But you don't have to take it from them or from me. Here is Dr. Anthony Fauci, an expert with decades of experience handling pandemics and the most trusted member of the President's own Coronavirus Taskforce speaking today with the "Journal of the American Medical Association."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Right now, if you look at the number of cases, it's quite disturbing. And we're setting records practically every day of new cases in the numbers that are reported. That clearly is not the right direction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: To Dr. Fauci's point, Florida today reporting 10,109 new cases, a new daily record. And just look at the seven-day moving average of new cases in that state over the last four weeks.
Now, let's add in the European Union to those numbers there. All of the European Union to be clear, all 27 countries, all 446 million people. Right now, Florida with a population of just 22 million, is averaging about twice as many new cases per day as the entire E.U. It's incredible.
Now, let's look at Texas and the E.U. over the same period of time. Again, these are seven-day averages, and a single day skew, the data again, those two lines tell the story. Cases are rising, in fact, in 38 states here in this country; steady or falling in just 12.
Both the Vice President and White House Press Secretary like to call what you're seeing right here in those numbers and those facts on your screen, embers. That's the word they used. But it's not only false, it's also insulting to anyone who could read the data or even more so has lost someone they love to the disease or might be fighting it themselves now.
Today, the President used similar words to gloss over what is the truth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Our health experts continue to address the temporary hot spots in certain cities and counties and we're working very hard on that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Not embers in that case, he said temporary hot spots. But the fact is, it's more like a wildfire. In any case, the President says it is all going great.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have some areas where we're putting out the flames of the fires, and that's working out well. We're working very closely with governors and I think it's working out very well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Sadly, that's both again false, but also a recurring theme. The President seems deliberately unwilling to learn or acknowledge how outbreaks grow and has been from the start.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When you have 15 people and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: That was on the 26th of February, and to the President, it was at the time, mission accomplished, just as it has been for week after week and month after month. The same message right up to today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have it totally under control, it's one person coming in from China.
We have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment.
We have it very much under control in this country.
Very interestingly, we've had no deaths.
The coronavirus, which is, you know, very well under control in our country.
And everything is under control. I mean, they're very, very cool. They've done it, and they've done it well. Everything really is under control.
It's something that we have tremendous control over.
And the crisis is being handled. We are likewise getting under control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The facts, the numbers belie that statement. We're not getting it under control, and the President, as we said, will once again model yet more behavior that will make things work. He's going to Mount Rushmore tomorrow in South Dakota where he will join an estimated 7,500 people to watch a fireworks display.
On Fox, South Dakota Governor, Kristi Noem told Laura Ingraham that free masks would be available, but this is not required. And then she said explicitly, and we're now quoting her, "We won't be social distancing."
Meantime, former presidential candidate Herman Cain who attended the President's recent no social distancing, mask optional indoor rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, he is now in the hospital, treated for COVID-19.
And late today, the C.D.C. put out a new forecast of how many lives might be lost in this country. It combines the work of two dozen independent institutions, projects nearly 148,000 fatalities by the 25th of this month. That's 20,000 more Americans over just the next three weeks.
Joining us now, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, as well as William Haseltine, former Harvard researcher, author of "A Family Guide to COVID: Questions and Answers for Parents, Grandparents and Children."
Professor, if I could begin with you. You look at this new projection from the C.D.C. predicting 148,000 deaths by July 25th. That's just over three weeks away, I wonder if that factors in fears about July Fourth weekend, because the data show that Memorial Day weekend where folks went out, kind of felt liberated. We are now seeing the result of that in an increase in infections. What is July Fourth? How does that factor in going forward the next month?
DR. WILLIAM HASELTINE, CHAIR AND PRESIDENT, ACCESS HEALTH INTERNATIONAL: Well, July Fourth factors in for people who are planning to get together without masks, without social distancing, indoors, to celebrate. It is a frightening prospect.
Let me just look ahead a little bit from where we are now. If this epidemic doesn't get under control, we're not talking about 150,000 deaths, we're talking about a million deaths over the next year. This is deadly serious today.
I can tell you that every time I hear those numbers, I wince. It hurts. I know those people. I know people who are dying. We know people who are gravely ill. And another aspect of this epidemic that people aren't focused on is the wounded. We count the dying. But in any battle, you count the wounded.
And a lot more, maybe five times as many people are injured for the rest of their life because of this infection. This is deadly serious, and I hope we begin, all of us, to exert our responsibility to take it seriously.
SCIUTTO: Sanjay, tell me your reaction to those numbers there. I mean, part of this is math, right? Because as you have more people infected, and if the positivity rate, the infection rate goes up within a larger population, that begins to grow exponential exponentially.
When you look at where we are today and where those graphs are pointing, are you concerned about getting to a death toll in an order of a million Americans?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT Well, you know, I mean, I guess, one can only say that we hope that doesn't happen, Jim.
I remember talking to you about this back in early March, and telling you that you know, we could be at 150,000 people this year. And I remember you looking at me thinking, wow, that's really grim, and here we are, right, and it's July.
So if the curves continue to go upward and they're steep and they're sort of going into exponential growth, this is -- this could be really, really tragic. That's what everyone has been trying to avoid.
We knew this was a contagious virus. We knew that when things started to open up, there would be more people who got infected than otherwise would have. But it was a question what are we willing to tolerate?
The problem is, we did not do what we needed to do so far and we're still not. That's the thing that concerns me more than anything else. Even at this point, we are still minimizing the problem, which has within the unifying problem all along, is that we minimized it.
That led to poor testing, not implementing mask rules, shutting down too late, opening up too early. You name it. It's all because we minimized this problem.
SCIUTTO: Yes, and we have a President who won't recognize the data before him. Dr. Haseltine, as this virus has mutated, some researchers say it's becoming more transmissible, but not necessarily more deadly. What are we learning about the virus as it exists today in this country?
HASELTINE: That is right. Well, what we have seen is the virus -- people know that as viruses go from one place to another, they change a little bit. But what was concerning is one particular mutation starting to spread and took over the rest of the world. It took over China. It took over Europe, and spread all throughout the United States.
One of my -- former students of my students actually looked at that in great detail and discovered that the envelope of that protein, the outside of the spike protein is a little different, which makes the virus ten times more transmissible than it used to be.
That helps explain why it's spreading so fast. It takes one tenth the amount of virus. It did at the beginning of this epidemic. Now, you asked another part of the question, does this make it more lethal? Not that we can tell. It gets around better, but so far, thank God, it doesn't mean that it causes more serious disease.
SCIUTTO: Sanjay, progress? We don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but progress in the search for a vaccine, some entering smaller trials at this point. How hopeful are you that you do have a workable vaccine perhaps by the end of the year, the beginning of next year, the hopeful timeline that even Dr. Fauci has talked about. And does a changing virus mean that the vaccine could not be as effective?
GUPTA: The answer to the last part of the question, the mutation thing, I don't think so. I don't think it's mutated enough to potentially make a vaccine more problematic.
With regard to the first part of your question, Jim, I'll preface by saying this. This has been a difficult story to recover as a reporter. So much of what we have learned about the vaccine development has come in the form of press releases, often times from the companies themselves, or what we call preprints, things that have not actually been peer reviewed.
There's only been one peer reviewed paper that we have found out of China with regard to vaccine development. So that's made this difficult to cover. Having said that, I am optimistic, and that's in part because I talk to these researchers on a regular basis.
I understand where they are with their trials. We won't know until we actually have a vaccine. There's obviously been diseases and infections for which we have never developed vaccines, such as HIV.
But I think, you know, you heard Francis Collins come out today, head of the N.I.H., and basically say we're going to have this by the end of the year. I was surprised that they're being that sort of dogmatic. Dr. Fauci has said the same thing.
So, certainly you have to weigh that into our optimism. Just about everybody on the planet wants this, and I'm optimistic. But I would like to see the data. I'm still surprised we haven't seen a lot of data around this.
SCIUTTO: Sanjay, Professor Haseltine, good to have you both on tonight. Sobering commentary, but it is good to have folks who know what they're talking about. Thanks very much.
Next, a closer look at how this is hitting hospitals and more as well from Dr. Fauci. His answer when asked whether he thinks we are winning or losing this battle.
Also, the politics of a President who would rather fight a war on behalf of statues of dead people, some of them traitors against their own country, than real life Americans.
David Axelrod, Maggie Haberman -- they will join us tonight on 360.
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. What the President today called temporary hot spots, the C.D.C.'s new forecast tonight says are contributing to a projected death toll of nearly 148,000 Americans in just a matter of weeks, by the 25th of this month in fact.
We'll be joined once again shortly by our medical and public health professionals. First though, a closer look at how this is all unfolding at the ground level in the states and hospitals that are now getting hammered really by this outbreak. Here is CNN's Jason Carroll.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Just today, Florida hit a record high, 10,000 new positive cases in the state. Tonight, this message from Coronavirus Taskforce member, Dr. Deborah Birx to all young Floridians.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: So we're asking for everyone under 40, that if you were in a gathering, please go and get tested. Please wear a mask.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL (voice over): In Texas, Governor Greg Abbott has issued an Executive Order, requiring Texans in counties with 20 or more COVID-19 cases to wear face coverings in public.
Doctors there, overwhelmed by the number of COVID patients. So many in stop parts there are wait lists for ventilators.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JEFFREY DELLAVOLPE, PULMONARY PHYSICIAN, SANDERS: ANTONIO METHODIST HOSPITAL: I've got 10 calls, all of whom young people who otherwise would be excellent candidates to be able to put on ECMO. They are so sick that if they don't get put on, they don't get that support, they're probably going to die. I have three beds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL (voice over): At least 23 states have changed or paused reopening plans due to spikes in COVID cases. The nation's top disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci told the BBC some states may have reopened too soon.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FAUCI: In the United States, even in the most strict lockdown, only about 50 percent of the country locked down. That allowed the perpetuation of the outbreak that we never did get under very good control.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CARROLL (voice over): Another top U.S. official testified before the House today and said the increase in numbers across the country is due to new cases, not new testing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADMIRAL BRETT GIROIR, H.H.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY: There is no question that the more testing you get, the more you will uncover. But we do believe this is a real increase in cases because of the percent positivities are going up. So, this is real increases in cases.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL (voice over): For now, New Jersey is continuing some of its reopening efforts. Casinos opened their doors today.
Dr. Fauci was bluntly asked today if the U.S. is winning the war against coronavirus.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
QUESTION: You've been lose thing battle, haven't you, recently?
FAUCI: Admittedly yes, we have. We cannot give up because it appears that we're losing the battle.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Jason Carroll joins us now. Jason, one of the more alarming stories, what are known as quote "COVID parties," unquote. Tell us what they are, because they sound insane.
CARROLL: Yes. I mean, it's really disturbing. I mean, you look at what happened in Rockland County just about an hour outside of New York City where investigators are looking into a cluster of COVID cases linked to a party.
Tuscaloosa, Alabama, where city officials say that they've been holding COVID parties there. And apparently, Jim, what happens is, you go there, you get a cash prize if you can prove you were the first person to contract the virus after going to the party.
And so what's very clear throughout all of this, is that despite all of the messaging that's out there showing just how deadly, just how dangerous this virus is, even with young people, it's just not getting that message. It's just not getting across like it needs to be.
SCIUTTO: And we have stories on this broadcast and others about young people hospitalized in dire condition. Folks, if you're listening at home, don't go to those parties. Jason Carroll, thanks very much.
Back now with us, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Professor William Haseltine. Sanjay, interesting here, because you -- even with the President being intransigent right on the scope of this problem, you are hearing slightly different messaging coming from folks in the administration.
Giroir there acknowledging that the increase in cases is not just about testing as the President has claimed, he has talked about the positivity rate going up, which is a fact and even the President now saying he doesn't oppose masks at least.
Do you see the slightest move of recognition there from the White House and the administration on the scope of this problem right now? GUPTA: Yes. And I think that you're seeing some of that, for example
in Texas with the governor talking about now mandating the masks as well.
I think, Jim, the thing about it is that, I mean, I think you could predict at this point that even in Florida, they'll come around at some point. I think it's become a question of what is it going to take? How much are they willing to tolerate before they go ahead and do what everybody knows needs to be done? That's the thing.
Masks, increased testing -- I mean, just come right out and say that indoor settings where a lot of people cluster together, close together for long durations, that can't happen right now, not with the way the numbers are going.
This is based on real data and based on success of these strategies in other countries. Again, Jim, you and I have talked about this, but in South Korea, there are plenty of examples around the world. South Korea, they never even went into a lockdown, and yet they have fewer than 300 people who died.
Why? Because they employed the strategies that we're trying to get people to employ in this country.
SCIUTTO: And as a result, they limited the economic damage. That's the thing that gets lost in this sometimes.
GUPTA: That's right.
SCIUTTO: Professor Haseltine, talking about focus on young people. Dr. Deborah Birx today, she has requested all Florida residents, 40 and under that have been gathering in the last four weeks to get tested. Tell us about the focus now, the concern about young people more getting infected and being a nexus for spreading this infection.
HASELTINE: Thank you for the question. Recent data has shown that the most avid super spreaders are young people and children. We used to think that wasn't true, but now, people have done the studies. So young people are the majority of the super spreaders. They can infect very large numbers of people.
The second thing to know is recent studies have shown that even though somebody may feel entirely well, if you do a chest x-ray, up to 60 percent have ground glass capacities in their lungs. That means they're not very well.
I talked a little bit before about the wounded. There may be long-term health consequences, a little bit like smoking when you're young, you get it when you're older.
These people are not immune. Not only are a lot of them are getting sick and filling up the hospitals as you've heard earlier in the program tonight, but they are inflicting long-term damage as well as infecting their friends, their families, and the whole society. This is not healthy for our country. SCIUTTO: Quite a warning. Important to hear. Thanks again to you both,
Professor Haseltine, Sanjay Gupta, we appreciate you coming on tonight.
GUPTA: Thanks, Jim.
HASELTINE: You're welcome. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Up next this hour, why the pandemic does not seem to interest President Trump, but pushing culture war buttons certainly does. We're going to speak about absent leadership, Confederate monuments as well with David Axelrod and "The New York Times" Maggie Haberman, that's next.
SCIUTTO: Well, President Trump has shown no interest in addressing the rising case numbers and hospitalizations from the pandemic. In fact, he has deliberately played them down. One area that does appear to interest him is pushing cultural divisions to attempt to woo voters.
Today, he harped again on protesters and monuments, tweeting a video about how quote lawlessness has been allowed to prevail. Comes just days after he threatened to hold up and must pass defense authorization bill that would among other things, renamed military installations which had been named after Confederate generals weeks ago. He called these bases quote, part of a great American heritage.
According to three people familiar with his comments, Trump has brushed off efforts to address historic racial inequality is something quote, his people unquote, won't care about. Listen to those words. They're important.
Joining us now former senior adviser to President Obama and CNN senior political commentator David Axelrod and New York Times White House correspondent and CNN political analyst, Maggie Haberman.
Maggie, you've covered this president for some time, you've covered the White House. Clearly, he wants to leave the outcome break behind him, even as the numbers rise, is there anyone in that building who is telling him honestly directly that he can't do that?
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: There are many people who are telling him that honestly, Jim, I think what has become clear to people or should have by now is this president wants to govern certain way and wants to run his reelection effort a certain way. And that does not relate to talking about the coronavirus unless it's about describing his administration's response in glowing terms that just don't comport with reality, certainly for the first many weeks as the pandemic was growing.
The President wants to have culture wars, he wants to fight on white grievance, and he wants to have a discussion around race that he thinks appeals to his base of supporters. And he has resisted all suggestions that he do it a different way.
SCIUTTO: David, those words his people, right. I mean, they're very revealing and President Trump is often almost all the time very transparent, right in what he's trying to do and who he's speaking to. Let's say you've run a lot of campaigns. Let's say you're his campaign advisor here. Is there any evidence that there's an audience for this right that the denial works, even as the virus spreads?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENION POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I think, Jim, that his desire, and this has been true from the beginning, was to try and make the campaign again about something else. And yes, he's a cultural warrior. And that's a big part of it. The other was the economy. And one of the reasons he was in such denial for six weeks at the beginning of this crisis was he didn't want anything that would disrupt economic progress, because that was what he was going to run on. And that was the same reason that he walked away from this battle in the middle and said, now it's time to reopen. We're, you know, we're experiencing the impact of that, of those decisions by governors across the nation who were following his lead.
Now, but he still seems to want to deny at a time when the country really needs two things they need determination. And they need someone who's going to be president to the entire country and that neither of those things are strengths of Donald Trump. So, you know, I think that he is digging a hole for himself politically here because as said from the beginning, you cannot spin a pandemic. And yet he seems to think that he can dictate the terms of the debate here.
SCIUTTO: Yes, he's certainly still trying. You know, is notable Maggie Haberman to see Texas Governor Greg Abbott change on not only on facing up to the numbers in his state as the infections grow, but also on the response and mandating masks and making the point that he's doing that because you need that kind of mitigation effort in order to get the economy going. I mean and that's what experts have said from the beginning. And frankly, you look at other countries, they got that.
Again, I mean, I was asked you this is someone in the White House and sir if you want your economy back, you got to take care of the outbreak first. It's a prerequisite for this.
HABERMAN: There are some people who are saying that it is not the overwhelming majority of people when it comes to masks in particular, though there are people who are telling him that masks need to be mandated that he needs to do more, to try to encourage people to do it that you have seen the politics around this change. The conservative news hosts have been talking about mask wearing, and I think some of them are hoping that will have an impact on the President's opinion.
But to your point, Jim, there is no way to separate the virus from the economy, go hand in hand. And that has been the issue with trying to turn these into two separate issues the entire time. And as you said, we are seeing the impact of that now.
SCIUTTO: David, the President --
AXELROD: And I just -- if I --
SCIUTTO: Please, please.
AXELROD: -- think that is such an important point. Because the President's assumption is that people will credit him for the economy before the virus, they will understand that the virus created the economic problem and that it's temporary and that he is the one based on his performance before the virus who can rebuild the economy.
But what isn't in that equation is the recognition that the reason we're in this economic mess is in part because of the tactics that he employed or the denial that consumed him before the virus, you know, in the early part of the virus, and now in the latter part of the virus, and it's really going to his competence, which is not a place where he wants to be going into his reelection.
SCIUTTO: Yes, and listen, people are dying, or someone you know, someone in your circle, et cetera. It's impossible for people to miss, of course, the very real effects of this.
Maggie, tomorrow the President, he's going to Mount Rushmore, you know, sending a lot of negative examples right to the governor, they're saying there will be no social distancing for instance, at this event. He's had to back off on a rally for instance, In Alabama, he didn't have a good turnout in Tulsa here. But heck, we're four months from election. I mean is he going to sort of sort of bulldoze forward with the Trump style rally plan as he tries to win reelection?
HABERMAN: That is not that -- he might eventually but that is certainly not the plan for the month of July. Campaign advisors this morning that and set what was described to me as a pretty aggressive schedule, at least for his White House duties. But as we know, in every election year in particular, they tend to sort of blend into one. That does not call for large scale rallies, indoor rallies, like what we saw in Tulsa and what have traditionally been these Trump rallies, there might be some in smaller settings in at least partially outdoor settings at some point this month. But officials are very, very sculpted by what happened in Tulsa and the fallout.
SCIUTTO: Notable, notable there, maybe a little scared about their jobs. Maggie Haberman, David Axelrod, so good to have both of you. Thanks so much.
AXELROD: Good to see you Jim. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Just ahead, more on what we touched on at the top of the hour. Why Europe is beating the virus and it is in the U.S. is not. And the one chart that explains why the E.U. is banning American travelers now.
SCIUTTO: Earlier today Joe Biden slammed President Trump for his handling of the pandemic and as evidence he cited the E.U. ban against travelers from the U.S. It's no question why the E.U. would place such a ban on Americans. Just look at this chart we showed you at the top of the program, the U.S. and the E.U. They followed a very similar project trajectory until March, when the number of new cases in the E.U. they came down. The U.S. going in the opposite direction, weigh up sharply. More than 47,000 cases just today in the U.S. versus less than 10,000 in all of the E.U. and has a bigger population, by the way, by 100 million people.
Joining me now, Tomas Pueyo, Vice President of Growth at Online Educational Platform Course Hero. Tomas has gained a following since the pandemic began for the way he synthesized vast amounts of data into compelling charts that really explain how this is all going down.
Tomas, so good to have you on here. And that Europe to U.S. connection is very telling. Tell us what they did right that the U.S. did not do and sadly is not doing right now?
TOMAS PUEYO, VP, GROWTH COURSE HERO: Well, there's a couple of things. First, they had Italy. That was a dramatic example of what happens if you don't control the virus. And so all the countries around were also having very heavy outbursts. And they really, really took this seriously except for the United Kingdom. And then Sweden also took it in a different way. But most of the European Union was very serious about this very heavy lockdowns everywhere until it was controlled, and only then did they reopen. That's the first thing.
The second thing that was very different is that, we consider the United States as one country compared to each one of the countries of the European Union. That's not the right way to think about it, because the United States decided not to make decisions at the federal level. And so the better comparison is actually every country in the in the United -- in the European Union, which we've every state in the United States. And then you can see really a pattern emerge where for example, states like Hawaii, Vermont or New Hampshire have done a substantially better job, European level job, whereas Arizona, for example has 50 times more cases than Hawaii.
SCIUTTO: One point you make specific to the approach is that the E.U. banned travel between countries very quickly and they --
SCIUTTO: -- enforce that ban. You've had some talk here of, you know, required quarantine, say New York for a bit is now talking them from states that have high rates. And for a while Florida was saying, we're not going to let New Yorkers come down here. But the fact is that was not enforced. Are you saying that to really get this under control in the U.S., you have to ban travel within states and enforce it somehow?
PUEYO: That's right. That's the key. I think that is a lot when thinking about the states as countries. You have that tooling in Europe, and then you can really be very thoughtful about not letting people in from outside but also inside of the country. Like this country is very centralized like France, or very decentralized like Spain or Germany. And all of them shut down and travel inside of the country. And here in the United States, we're shy to do even though that means Hawaii and Alaska, that not only did it but enforced it, but outside of that very, very little. We're talking about the tri- states doing that now. But he's not enforced. It's recommended.
If you're coming from for Florida, are you really going to have to wait for two weeks in an apartment before you can go out to New York?
SCIUTTO: No, it's just not happening. The U.S., frankly, lacks a national policy, right? There are no national directives, for instance on masks. And you hear state leaders, local leaders, many begging for that right but the President clearly not going to do it. He's going to leave it up to states. Based on the data you're looking at, does that work? Can a country get a handle on it with a sort of piecemeal strategy and everybody, you know, handling it in a different way at different speeds?
PUEYO: The -- there is no other country that decided not to manage the coronavirus at the highest level of suffering, does not. And so we really need to think about it in terms of who is the most suffering here and that's the one making the decisions.
If California, if Hawaii are forced to behave like countries, then they need to behave like countries. And if they want to keep their in the case of Vermont or New Hampshire, for example, keep their low prevalence, they need to behave like they were countries, they cannot let cases from other states infecting all the hard work that are done.
SCIUTTO: Final question before you go, I'm just curious. How is the world looking at the U.S. right now, as the cases continue to go up? I mean, really, the only other countries in that category are Brazil and Russia, whereas countries like South Korea, you know, the E.U. have gotten us under control. Is the U.S. an example to anybody right now?
PUEYO: The U.S. is adding one (ph) Wuhan a day. We're in total 50,000 cases in Wuhan That's what we're having every day now in the United States, has given you a sense of what the rest of the world thinks about the United States. Brazil has a lot of cases, obviously, Russia is not telling everything. Mexico is not doing really well. So there's a lot of countries that are not doing really well. And they didn't take this very seriously. There's other countries like India that is trying very, very hard. And yet, unfortunately, the cases there are going up.
The United States is the only country, very developed country with a lot of money that is not up to what all the other developed countries have been able to do.
SCIUTTO: Well, that's a sobering assessment. But facts back it up. Tomas Pueyo, thanks so much.
PUEYO: Thank you. SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour a movie tribute to the real life U.S. heroes of war based on the bestseller by our colleague and good friend Jake Tapper. He's going to join us just ahead.
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Let's check in now with Chris to see what he's working on for "CUOMO PRIMETIME". Of course, it's top of the hour. Chris, my friend, what do you got?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Well, my brother, you are the historian between us, that's for sure. But I do ask the people to watch the top of the show because I'm given a little food for thought about the notion that the answers to the questions that ALS (ph) right now are found right in the pledge that we celebrate this weekend with our independence holiday weekend. So I would ask people to watch that.
We also then have the former CDC director Tom Frieden to give us the good, bad and ugly of the current state and play. And there is good and there is bad and there is ugly. So we'll go through that.
Also, we have the attorney for Mary Trump on the show tonight. I'm dying to know what they don't want us to know. So we'll see what the attorney will tell us.
We're also going to talk to Mayor Lori Lightfoot right before Independence Day. Obviously mayor of Chicago, how are they working to keep things calm on this celebration weekend? And how does she explain the crime and death in her city?
SCIUTTO: All good questions. And I love that you're looking at history for positive lessons. A lot of talk about history right now. Let's look for the positive lessons in our country's history. Thanks, Chris. We're seeing a few minutes.
Up next this hour, CNN's Jake Tapper, he's going to join us to talk about the best seller that's come to life on the big screen. It's a powerful story.
SCIUTTO: Given the headlines lately, there's of course new attention on the war in Afghanistan, but my colleague CNN's Jake Tapper has always been focused on it. On Friday the film, The Outpost will be available on Demand as well as in select theaters is based on Jake's best selling book, The Outpost, An Untold Story of American Valid -- Valor. If you haven't read it if you haven't seen the story, the movie tells the real life story of Combat Outpost Keating, one of the bloodiest battles of the war.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone's worried about the (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, how so?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He doesn't know what he's doing. He's scared. That's obvious. He doesn't need to talk except to take a (INAUDIBLE). Even then he does it with an Esquire. I carry his piss every other day to the bank pit. When calling Broward a coward.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Carter take a seat. Take a seat Carter, come on. You ever heard of Captain Bostic or Colonel Fenty?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're two commanders who lost their lives and their (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This commander is a 37-year-old captain was seen a whole lot of death in Iraq before he got here. He's probably seen more firefights and you see in the movies.
SCIUTTO: Jake Tapper joins us now. Jake, listen, I read the book. I look forward to seeing the film. It's such a powerful story. It's also sad story of the lives lost. And I've seen you comment on this before. It's very personal, of course, to the families. I'm curious. You worked with them. You've had contact with them. How do they receive this going out on the screen?
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Well, we had a special screening last October which was the 10 year anniversary of the big battle of October 3rd, 2009. And we invited a number of veterans in the troops in the Gold Star families everybody who has a loved one whose death is depicted in the film. And to be honest, it was nerve racking, the movies gotten really good reviews this week. But Rod Lurie, the director and I were most worried about the reviews and the criticism from the Gold Star families and the troops who served there.
TAPPER: And to a person, they thought that the movie honored their loved one. And we were really nervous because first of all, you know, how do you recreate such a story in a film, second of all, to see your loved one who's no longer with you depicted? And then third of all the scenes of their death depicted would be harrowing, but they all understood the sentiment. And yes, it is, it is a sad story, in some ways, Jim, but also, it's a heroic story of a bunch of men who are facing an incredible odds, band together and push back an enemy.
SCIUTTO: No question. I mean, the heroism there, I mean, it's inspiring. The timing of this of course, at a time when there's renewed focus, you know, probably overdue to some degree, of course, right on the ongoing war in Afghanistan. For folks at home, who may not have been paying attention in recent years. So what will they learn from the movie about this war?
TAPPER: Well, I think they'll see depictions of what it is that a lot of our troops over there have been doing in terms of trying to win over Afghans, trying to win over individual towns and villages, convince them to not join the insurgency to convince them to join with the U.S. and the Afghan government for electric plants and schools and things that could help them what you and others who covered the military know is called COIN or counter-insurgency. What that actually means nation building hearts and minds. And you see that depicted in the film. And then ultimately, you see how difficult a job it is to do such a thing in these very remote and dangerous outposts.
SCIUTTO: No question and at a time, when we're talking about withdrawing those forces right ending the war.
Jake, I know you put your lot of heart, blood, sweat and tears into this. Thanks for coming on tonight. Again, it's called The Outposts. Jake Tapper, thanks so much.
The news continues, of course, I'm going to hand it over to my colleague Chris, "CUOMO PRIMETIME", starts right now.