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CUOMO PRIME TIME

Trump Threatens To Withhold Funding From Schools That Don't Reopen, Slams CDC Guidelines; Less Than 150 ICU Beds Left In The Entire State Of Arizona As Emergency Room Admissions Hit Record High; Governor DeWine Issues Mandatory Mask Order For Seven Counties. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired July 8, 2020 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: After hearing that news, Curtis quickly started to deteriorate. Their son, Tim, said he believes his dad was only fighting the virus because he thought they would pull through it together.

Nurses were able to bring Curtis and Betty together one last time, and they died within an hour of each other. An ICU nurse put Betty's hand on Curtis' arm, and they held on to each other until the very end.

That's it for us. The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: You know, when we learn about these stories of people been together a long time, you say, "Well they had a good life. Boy, they lived a long time!" Yes. But it didn't have to end right now.

COOPER: Yes.

CUOMO: What if they could have had six more months? What if it was another year or two years? Ask their families how they'd feel about that, Anderson. We both know the answer, having lost parents.

COOPER: Yes.

CUOMO: You know, you'd give anything for a little bit more time.

COOPER: Yes.

CUOMO: That's why we have to do everything we can to get past this pandemic as quickly and as together as we can. Thank you for telling their stories, as always, brother. Thank you, Anderson.

I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.

Another day gone without, the President, deciding to lead us with a plan of action, to fight the pandemic. Instead, we now know what he meant by pressuring states to reopen schools, ready or not, without ever offering them a plan to help. If they don't reopen, he will punish the poorest students. He said

he's going to pull Federal Aid. And the kids that get most of that aid are the neediest. Many of them are White, by the way, and from families that may be Trumpers.

Now, you may argue, "Wait a minute, the CDC is trying to help. They put together some guidelines to help states figure out how to reopen." You're right. Fair point!

But Trump attacked the CDC for basically putting too much emphasis in those guidelines on safety. He called the suggestions quote, "Too tough and expensive." And guess what? The CDC buckled. New recommendations are coming next week.

Question, do you think they will make schools more or less safe? That's called a rhetorical question.

And I told you, the scientists would be silenced last night. Do you remember? Today, who don't we see?

Oh, yes, Fauci. No Fauci at the Task Force briefing. I wonder why? Because Fauci is saying we're not on the right side of the pandemic. That we shouldn't be complacent - complacent, that we are knee-deep in this crisis.

So, the President wants you to ignore his own health officials, to live in his COVID-less La La Land, and at the same time, he says he should be given more credit because Fauci and the others are seen as so credible.

Well maybe if you start listening to Fauci, and doing what Fauci says you should do, you'll be seen as credible as Fauci is. But not now, and here's a reason why.

Trump just pointed to countries like Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden. He says "Schools are open there with no problems. So the U.S. should have no problems, right?"

You know how many cases Germany reported yesterday? Look on your screen, 279. Denmark, 10. Norway, 11. Sweden, 283. The United States? Single-day record of the wrong kind, my brothers and sisters, 60,021. We topped 3 million cases today.

Those other countries are managing their outbreaks. They have plans and leadership at the top. We don't. We should be first, yet we are the worst.

Arizona is a disaster on a global scale. ICU beds are almost all being used as cases surge. Where is the plan to help them? Hell, the Governor is a Republican. He said nice things about you. Help him, Mr. Trump.

The school concern is going to grow with every day that we get closer to the fall, and every day without a plan to help the states.

My first guest says, you know, the right question isn't, "Can we open schools?" Of course we can. The real question is, "Can we keep schools open?" Dr. Ashish Jha is with the Harvard Global Health Institute.

Good to see you brother, as always.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: Chris, thank you for having me on.

CUOMO: So, whether you can keep schools open, meaning, are we going to go through with schools, what we did with reopening, and what is your suggestion about which way it's looking now?

JHA: So Chris, here's the bottom line. I'm a - I'm a dad. I have three kids. I desperately want them back in schools. We all want our kids back in schools.

CUOMO: Yes.

JHA: The issue isn't, "Do you want kids in schools?" The question is, "Are we ready to have schools open and stay open throughout the entire fall?"

And there are two things that matter, the size of the outbreak in the community that dominates the issue, and the second, is your - is your school ready? Do you have the ventilation? Do you have the spacing? Do you have the testing?

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If you don't have all of that, you can will all you want, you can say I want schools open all you want, you're not going to be able to keep them open because teachers are going to get sick, staff are going to get sick, kids are going to get sick--

CUOMO: "No." He says "No."

JHA: --and you're going to have to shut down.

CUOMO: The President says "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're good here because kids don't get as sick. And that's why the death rate is going on. And so this is a good thing. Even if they get it, they're OK. Open the school, Jha."

JHA: Well look, you can open the schools, and if you can run schools without adults, just have the kids teach themselves, that would be great.

Two points. First of all, kids do get sick, absolutely not as often as adults. But second, you do need adults to run schools. And without adults, it's very hard to run schools.

CUOMO: Help me understand.

Put up the full screen of the CDC guidelines on reopening schools.

Now, the President has pushed on them, and they're going to put new ones out, next week or something. But what here is too tough and too expensive? "Wearing masks," can't be. "Staying home when appropriate," that's how

it is now. "Staggered scheduling, back-up staffing plan, modified seating, closing communal spaces," there was a suggestion made by the White House where they also want some kids to bring lunches to school.

I mean, do you see any of that as onerous?

JHA: I see all of that as basic. That's the minimum. I actually think the CDC should have gone further.

Where is the testing protocol? Where is the real aggressive surveillance program? CDC toned this down. I know the scientists at the CDC. They're world-class. They toned this down.

CUOMO: They're going to tone it down more--

JHA: And it wasn't good enough.

CUOMO: --based on what we heard today.

JHA: I'm worried about that.

Here's the bottom line, Chris. You can't - you can't bluff your way through this virus. You can't tone it down with the virus.

The virus is going to do what it's going to do. And we've got to be smart and we've got to outsmart the virus. And the CDC plan isn't good enough. And if we tone it down further, it's definitely not going to be good.

CUOMO: Why is California going through what it's going through? Hospitalizations, 44 percent up, two weeks, ICU, 34 percent, meaning those going to the hospital aren't just sick, it's sick, sick, testing, a 100,000 a day, at 8 percent.

These numbers, why so much growth? Why so many positive tests in just the last two weeks?

JHA: I have to tell you, I'm puzzled. Gavin Newsom was one of the country's leaders in the initial days.

CUOMO: Yes.

JHA: He did a great job in March and April. I don't understand what happened. But it feels to me, like in the last few weeks, he let his foot off the pedal, and let a lot of counties open up way too fast, didn't react fast enough.

I'm a fan of Gavin Newsom. But his performance, in the last couple of weeks, have been a little bit - have not been a science- and evidence- based, as I would like for him to be.

CUOMO: And also, look, I'm not just about talking about people. I'd love to talk to them. The Governor and his officials are - have an open invitation, and that stands. Arizona has a 25 percent positivity rate with its testing, and they are about to start doing, we're going to take this on with a Doctor on the frontlines, they're starting to do like Italy-type triage there. "Jha is sick, God forbid. Cuomo is sick, again. We can only help one. Which?"

Really? Shouldn't there be Federal Emergency response?

JHA: I don't know what to tell you, Chris. Look, this is unbelievable at this point in the pandemic. We are six months in. And I thought we had this under control. I thought we would have a Federal response.

But we're just, you know, we're letting the ball drop. And so that's why we have states after states struggling. And it's a real problem.

CUOMO: I've never had a conversation with someone like you, about something like this, when I wasn't standing in Haiti or somewhere in the Middle East, or something, and crying out, on behalf of people, that the "United States got to get over here. We need the people with money and the doctors to help."

And here we are in the United States! Amazing! Amazing!

Ashish Jha, thank you for keeping us, on the path of truth, here, and figuring out, where we can find some light. Appreciate it.

JHA: Thank you, Chris, thank you.

CUOMO: Look, I know that the numbers get numbing. And, by the way, they don't really capture the distress in places like Arizona.

So, I propose this. Come back. Let's go to a doctor on the frontlines. And you hear for yourself why she says they can't keep up, how no one is answering their calls for help and, as a result, they may be forced to do something that you can't believe would happen in this country, next.

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CUOMO: Arizona is now ground zero in this pandemic, and we have to spend time there and figure out why and help these people. There's real concern, over the State's ability, to fight it on their own. Now, you wouldn't know that from listening to the Head of the White

House Task Force today, of course, our Vice President.

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MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're actually seeing early indications of a percent of positive testing flattening in Arizona, and Florida, and Texas.

And in Arizona and Florida, we are beginning to see declining numbers of emergency room visits as well.

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CUOMO: Look, I know somebody else is giving the numbers. And I know Fauci said, just today, that he believes the VP is doing a good job. I trust Tony Fauci. So, I guess he's seeing something that we're not.

But we're going to go to Arizona right now, OK? And we're going to talk to somebody who is on the frontlines, seeing the reality without any politics.

145 ICU beds, that's all they've got left, 2,008 COVID patients admitted to the ER, their positive rate is 25 percent, supposed to be in the low-single digits, Arizona, not flattening. Fact!

Let's talk more about what happened. This is not about politics, OK? We don't do that to doctors. Let's bring in Dr. Hannah Dillon. She's an Anesthesiologist, who is treating COVID patients in Tucson.

Doctor, thank you, for what you're doing, for your community.

DR. HANNAH DILLON, TREATING CORONAVIRUS PATIENTS: Thank you for having me, Chris.

CUOMO: So, forget about anybody else. Let's just talk about what's going on in the walls where you work. What are you seeing in terms of hospitalization rates and the types of cases and the ability to deal with them?

DILLON: So, our Hospital has been doing, everything we can, to expand our capacity, to take this increasing surge of patients. But the patients don't seem to be slowing down.

Our ICUs have been full, in Arizona, for some time.

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I know we have beds available here and there, and we have something called a surge line that allows hospitals to transfer patients between various institutions where there are resources.

We've been doing that now, for some weeks, having to transfer two patients to a hospital that has two beds for them, and then the next day, our Hospital accepts a patient or two that has a bed for them. So, it has been a real challenge to get patients the care that they

need. And the physicians, the nurses, our excellent healthcare teams, are really being stretched to their limits at this time.

CUOMO: Are you seeing people get sick in your ranks?

DILLON: We have had a few people get sick amongst us. Fortunately, nobody has gotten really sick yet.

CUOMO: Good.

DILLON: We are doing a very good job with PPE. And we have adequate supplies for that. So, at least, that's a slightly better situation than our country was in two months ago.

CUOMO: So, if I were to take the position, "All right, so you guys are great. You're dealing with the problem. But you seem to be able to handle it so far, why the concern?"

DILLON: So, the concern is that every day, we're seeing increasing numbers, not decreasing numbers.

And with that pattern, and with the amount of work we are already doing, across the State, to transfer patients, and to expand our capacity, to care for patients, we do worry that there will, at some point come a breaking point, a point where our system cannot stretch further.

ICU nurses, for example, as incredible as ours are, cannot safely care for more than two patients to three patients with COVID. It is a complex illness. It affects patients in many ways. And they are very demanding patients. It would not be safe to stretch our staff more than that.

And so, humans are our greatest resource right now, our nurses, our respiratory therapists, our physicians, and we are only able to stretch ourselves so far.

CUOMO: Now, this idea, I want to make sure I get this right. You helped write the Crisis Standards of Care for Arizona, so you know the rules very well.

We are being told that you may get to a point, and soon, where you have to start making really tough choices about whom to help and how. Help me understand this, what are we talking about here?

DILLON: So, no physician, Chris, ever wants to be in the position of having to even really have these conversations.

It's uncomfortable for us to even talk about, because we enter this profession with the belief that all life is valuable, and worth saving, and that we will do our best to care for every single person, who needs our help.

A few months ago, when we were watching, the situation unfolding in New York, and other places, around the world, we started to realize that we might have to make plans for the absolute worst-case scenario.

The Crisis Standards of Care is a very large set of guidelines that Arizona uses to guide its decision-making, when we reach really severe levels of this pandemic. The part that--

CUOMO: Well what kind of choices do you have to make?

DILLON: So, our resources are strapped in some ways. It's not ventilators anymore, as you guys experienced in New York.

CUOMO: Right.

DILLON: But we're looking at, you know, we only have so many ECMO machines in the State of Arizona.

An ECMO machine takes the blood out of the body, and oxygenates it, and then returns it to the patient's body. We don't have any of those available. So, if a patient were to be so critically ill that a ventilator just wasn't enough, you know, they would have a hard time getting placed on an ECMO machine in Arizona.

We have dialysis machines for patients for whom the Coronavirus affects their kidneys. There's a limitation to how many of those we have.

And then finally--

CUOMO: So, you may have to start making choices, about who gets this kind of care, even though you may have three or four equal patients?

DILLON: We absolutely hope never to get to that point. But we felt that those of us who authored that portion of the Crisis Standards of Care felt that it would be short-sighted not to prepare for that eventuality you've got possibly--

CUOMO: How far are you from that?

DILLON: I don't really know the answer to that. We are prepared, if it becomes an inevitability, but we're not doing it yet. I think it's also important--

CUOMO: How do we keep you from getting that?

DILLON: We need people. The most important thing we need, are nurses, patient care technicians, and respiratory therapists, to help us care for people.

CUOMO: I haven't heard the Governor put out the call. You're not a politician. You're not talking politics. I don't want you to talk politics. But just tell me this. Is it clear, this need, on all levels?

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This isn't something that you guys are just keeping to yourself, or that other people say, "No, no, no. Listen, I know Dillon. She's a good doctor. She's wrong about this. There's a whole different policy way to look at it?"

Is there any gray area here, or is everybody on the same page about the need?

DILLON: I think that there has been some good effort. My Hospital received about 40 support physicians, nurses, paramedics, from a Medical Disaster Relief team, and they've been doing a tremendous amount of good.

So, we are getting help. It's just that the case numbers are rising so quickly--

CUOMO: You need more.

DILLON: --that it's very hard to keep up with - with our needs and we--

CUOMO: Now, Texas has some military personnel going there. Do you guys have a request in for that?

DILLON: I believe our Hospital does. But we are competing with other hospitals, across the State of Arizona, who are just as desperate as we are.

CUOMO: Wow! But we haven't heard about any military going to Arizona yet. Have you?

DILLON: I haven't.

CUOMO: Oh, my! Listen, Dr. Dillon, here's what we can do.

I'm privileged to be able to tell your story, because I've heard anecdotally, we've been in and out of Arizona with our reporting, I know how hard you guys are working. I know how much you love your communities. And I know how much the communities, there, come together in times of need.

As this situation progresses, you have an open invitation, on this show, to tell us what's going on, and what is needed.

I promise you, people in positions of power are aware, and they will be made aware, after this segment, that the need is great in Arizona, and they have to answer why they're not addressing it.

DILLON: Thank you so much, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Dr. Hannah Dillon, God bless you and your teammates there. Stay healthy. And thank you for helping.

DILLON: Thank you.

CUOMO: Boy, oh, boy! Can you believe that, in America, in Arizona? Why aren't they helping? I mean, does anybody have an answer?

I know a lot of Congressmen are listening to this. Why? Do something about it. Do your damn job, instead of dealing with what I have to talk about now, the latest attack on the effort to stop racism in this country, the attack against the effort to stop racism.

"These people, they're causing a major crime wave." You've heard it. Let's look at the facts, and the reasons behind them. And then, you judge who and what is to blame. Let's get after it.

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CUOMO: The number of homicides are spiking. Look at the data. New York, Chicago, Louisville, Philadelphia, New Orleans, Denver, Miami. And the White House says it cares.

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KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I didn't receive one question about New York City shootings doubling for the third straight week. And over the last seven days, shootings skyrocket by 142 percent. Not one question.

We need to be focused on securing our streets, making sure no lives are lost.

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CUOMO: Now, they have offered no way to do those things.

So, why do they care? Well they care if they can blame it on their opponents. But let's see how Miss "I won't lie to you," and the rest of Team Trump, feel after we drop some truth on their roof.

The increases started in June. You say, "Hey, well that's about - about the same time as the protests. All those calls to defund the police, that's got to be the reason. See? You turn on the cops, and the criminals run wild."

That's why she wants questions about it, to say that, right?

But what else started in June? Well states started lifting stay-at- home orders then, didn't they? "Well you don't know that that's what it was." OK. Then why in April and May, when businesses were closed, and we were all forced to stay home, were homicides down?

Also, homicide rates, as you may know, almost always spike in summer, why? Kids are out of school. More people are out in general, and in contact with each other, so more chance for beefs, good and bad, add it to a seasonal increase in drug consumption, and you get more of us at our worst.

But this year is unique. People are not out and about, as much, or at least they shouldn't be.

Another curveball, homicides are up in 25 American cities, yes. But overall crime is down, why? We can't really know because our Federal government, under Trump, has not improved slow and incomplete reporting on such things.

But here's what we do know. During the pandemic, reports of domestic violence, spiking, calls to mental health hotlines, same, overdoses, same, all reasons to end the pandemic as soon as you can, you know, with a plan, Mr. self-appointed Wartime President, or you can just go after the reasons that we're here long before COVID, and will remain long after, if things stay the same.

Entrenched poverty, a culture of exclusion that leads to crime, and killing, and tragic faces like these, six dead kids shot over the holiday weekend, all between the ages of 6 and 14. They weren't targets. They were living in the wrong place at the wrong time, like too many generations of kids before them.

Violent crime rates have been falling for decades. But that stat belies the reality that Black lives just don't seem to matter as much. Black people are still 10 times more likely to lose their life in a shooting than Whites.

Chicago had 1,200 extra officers patrolling the Fourth of July weekend. It's not enough, why, because cops can't change poverty, desperation that leads to crime, and killing.

[21:30:00]

If your life seems to have few good options, legit legs up are few, college is a pipe dream, good job seem to not exist, as KRS-One asked for all poor Black kids, "What the hell do you think they're supposed to do?"

Here's what the President says.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're fixing the inner cities. We're doing far more than anybody has done with respect to the inner cities. It's a priority for me, and it's very important.

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CUOMO: He is lying! Period!

Income inequality is the highest it's been since the government started tracking it five decades ago. This Administration has only made it harder to be poor, how? Kicking families off food stamps, reducing access to Medicaid and dozens of other Federal Aid programs, the Administration is currently rolling back Fair Housing Rules during a pandemic.

He's tried every year of his Administration to cut billions from public housing. He's also tried to get rid of help for minority businesses, before and after school programs, low-income heating assistance, rental assistance, and job training.

Now, historically, Black colleges and universities just got a boost from Trump. Let's tell it both ways. But when it comes to K to 12, we still spend way less on Black kids than White, even when you adjust for poverty.

And when it comes to guns, you know where we are. Even things with bipartisan support, like Universal Background Checks, are stuck, waiting for word that the President is on board. Even the crickets are getting tired! The Trumpers have spent years, quietly, making it easier to buy, sell and move guns.

He has never even said there is systemic racism, or that, The Outraged deserve recourse. He has no position on Confederate Flags flying in America in 2020. And he basically blames these recent crime increases on the Black Lives Matter Movement.

But he wants you to believe he's about fixing things. Don't believe the hype. Know the history and compare it to his story. The two are very different.

We're losing too many lives. You got this crisis. You got COVID.

But Ohio's Governor just did something that's, no doubt, going to save lives. He just issued something that you don't like hearing, especially from the Right side of the aisle, mandatory mask orders in counties, where infections are surging.

What changed his mind? How can he enforce it? How will he deal with the political blowback? Does he care? Next.

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CUOMO: Just over three hours ago, Ohio's GOP Governor, Mike DeWine, made wearing masks mandatory for seven so-called "Red-hot" counties that have been hit hard, recently by Coronavirus.

His decision comes, as his State continues to see a spike with the fourth highest number - fourth highest number of cases daily. Governor Mike DeWine joins us now.

It's good to see you. I'm sorry, it's under these circumstances. But I want you to have this platform to make your case for what's happening and what you believe will happen. So, why do you think this State's taken a downturn?

GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): Well I think, you know, summer's here, people are out, people are moving around.

You know, Chris, I don't think there's any secret about what's going on across this country. And, you know, when we had people were staying home, they weren't - didn't have as much contact.

You know, I spent some time, on the phone, talking to our different Health Directors in the different counties. I called all seven counties the other day, and I said, "What's - what's causing this?"

And the answer is, "Look, people are out. These are sometimes big family events that are occurring. Sometimes it's a wedding. Sometimes, it's a funeral. Sometimes, it's they're going to a bar," you know, all kinds of things.

Some of that is, of course, an institution such as a nursing home. But the majority of it is not. Most of it is just - it is community spread. People are moving around. And, you know, our message continues to be the same.

This is a mask that Fran made, Ohio mask here. And our message is that people, you know, need to were these, and we need to focus on what we have to do that we can go about our lives.

We've got to learn to live with this virus. But if we're going to live with it, if we're going to continue to the economy to grow, and people have jobs, we're going to be very careful.

We're going to have to observe the six - six feet. We're going to have to wash our hands. We're going to have to wear a mask when we're out in public. These are just very essential things.

CUOMO: You know, nobody should be happy to hear that you've had to make masks mandatory in counties because that means you've got great need. But what it is easy to dislike is what seems to be a pattern of Republican governors not doing what you just did.

And DeSantis, he's got every reason, times several fold, to do what you just did. He won't. Abbott waited too long, now, he's in quick backpedal mode. Arizona, you know what's happening there.

Is it fair to say that there is some type of political element to a decision to put masks or not in some of these states?

DEWINE: No. I mean, look, this is a matter of public health. [21:40:00]

You know, Chris, you and I have talked about this before. We originally put out a order that said that anybody in any workplace has to wear a mask, and that has worked, I think, very well, in many cases, not all cases, but in many cases.

The safest eight hours a day for someone is the time that they're at work.

CUOMO: Right.

DEWINE: That people are following the protocols at work. And they're doing, by and large, a very, very good job.

We talked about, you know, wanted to put out a mandatory mask for everyone out in public. It was - it was clear, early on, that there was not only not support for that, but there was a big, huge pushback, and that just was not going to work.

But what we've now done is we've taken all our 88 counties, and we're measuring the amount of spread. We have four colors.

CUOMO: Right.

DEWINE: The third hot - the third level is - and there's only four levels. The third level is red.

In the seven counties that we put the mask order in at 6 o'clock tonight, are all counties that are unfortunately moving - moving forward with the Coronavirus, and we've got to stop it.

CUOMO: Right.

DEWINE: And part of this is it's not just we want people to wear a mask, but putting a mask order on is another way to signal to people, just like a red is a way of signal to people, "Look, your County is different. This is - it's spreading."

CUOMO: Sure.

DEWINE: "It's spreading very quickly. We've got to get in on top of this."

CUOMO: Look, that's leadership, Guv. I mean I don't need to tell you.

DEWINE: And we have - we have to do it.

CUOMO: You've been doing it. You've been deliberate in how you do it. You're not a rush-to-judgment kind of guy.

And the reason I bring up the politics is because, again, I give you the platform because you deserve it. You're doing something that is not popular, but that's leadership.

But, to my point, you got this Sheriff, in one of your counties. Now, you explain this to me, if it's not about politics. You make the order. It's based on the numbers. Everybody can see the basis.

And I know you know what I'm talking about. Let - but let the audience listen to this man.

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SHERIFF RICHARD K. JONES, BUTLER COUNTY, OH: I'm not going to be the Mask Police. I'm telling people "Don't call 911."

We tell people, if you want to call the Governor's Office, or call the Health Department, they can put a little yellow light on their car and they can stop people for it. I'm not going to do it.

Should be a choice. You shouldn't have to wear a mask if you don't want to. If you're sick, that's one thing. But when our governor goes ahead - he's a nice guy and he's doing the best he can. But he's not communicating with the people in their communities.

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CUOMO: What's this guy? This guy wants your job? He's right.

DEWINE: Well - well Sheriff--

CUOMO: You are a nice guy. But you're also his Governor. He doesn't get to decide which one of your laws that he enforces. How do you account for that?

DEWINE: Well - well Sheriff Jones is a friend of mine. He and I do disagree on some - some issues.

CUOMO: Some friend!

DEWINE: Even though we're the same Party. But--

CUOMO: With friends like that, who needs enemies?

DEWINE: Well, you know!

But, you know, you know, Chris, really, we're not looking to arrest people. We're not looking to--

CUOMO: No. But what message does that send, Guv?

DEWINE: --you know.

CUOMO: You're doing something that's difficult. It's easy to do nothing in a situation like this. We see it every day on high. What I'm saying is what do you do if someone like him doesn't want to--

DEWINE: Yes. Look, the--

CUOMO: --enforce it?

DEWINE: The law is a teacher though. The law sets norms for society. And we already had seen, and early (ph), you know, can't - can't prove it, but we'd already started to see, in the last week, an increase, a significant increase in people wearing masks around Ohio.

I'll tell you something, we started, I guess, two weeks ago, we're on TV with some - some, I think, very compelling ads.

Not Mike DeWine talking, but medical people talking, doctors, nurses, and basically saying "Look, we need to wear a mask. We need to protect each other." If our economy is going to move forward, and our businesses will not shut down--

CUOMO: That's right.

DEWINE: --you know, we've got to move forward.

We have a businessman, a man who owns a bar, and who owns a restaurant, he's sitting there, in this ad, and he ends the ad, he's looking at the people, and say, "Hey, we can all do this, but we've got to be careful. We've got to wear the mask."

CUOMO: All the families who want their kids to go back to school.

DEWINE: "We've got to keep our distance."

CUOMO: You can't put them into schools--

DEWINE: Sure.

CUOMO: --if they're in communities where the cases are spiking. You know what I mean?

DEWINE: Well--

CUOMO: It'd be political suicide, to do that, let alone irresponsible. I hear what you're dealing with, Governor, and I know you're trying to get ahead of it, because we knows what - know what happens if you don't.

DEWINE: Well what - what we are telling people, people, you know, everybody wants to see Friday Night Football, High School.

CUOMO: Sure.

DEWINE: This - you know, we want to see Saturday football with Ohio State. We want a lot of different things to occur. We want our kids, as you say, back in school, actually in the classroom.

What we do now, over the next several months, you know, the next six weeks, is really going to determine what that fall looks like.

CUOMO: Amen! Amen!

DEWINE: And that's been my message to - to my fellow Ohioans. "We can do this. We can do this. But we've got to keep the mask on."

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And look, we don't have to have a 100 percent. If we get 80 percent, 85 percent, and the people out there, who are walking in stores, who are wearing a mask, already, everybody in that store, who's working there, is wearing a mask.

CUOMO: Right.

DEWINE: And that's been true for the last three months. So, if we can get 80 percent to 85 percent of the people who walk in stores to do that, and I think we can, we're going to slow this thing down dramatically, and make the fall a lot better fall for all of us in Ohio.

CUOMO: Well I'm happy to give you the platform to make the pitch. That invitation will always be open.

Test your friendship with the Sheriff. See if he'll do an ad, and over the top of that sound bite, you can put "Don't be this guy."

Governor Mike DeWine?

DEWINE: Well I'll see if the Sheriff will wear a mask.

CUOMO: Yes.

DEWINE: Thank you.

CUOMO: He may have to, to hide himself, after that sound bite. Governor, good luck to you going forward. Thank you very much.

DEWINE: Thank you.

CUOMO: Safe and be healthy.

DEWINE: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Take care, Governor.

Can you believe that like that's tough now? "It should be a choice. I'm" what? Yes, it should be a choice, until people don't make the right choice, and the numbers are suggesting that you're in extremis. That's what leadership is.

Amid all the heart way - heartache, we haven't forgotten about the death of George Floyd. You can never do that. You can't. Means too much!

One of the police officers charged is now trying to get the case against him thrown out. And through that effort, we just learned a lot more about what was really said, by that officer, but also, by George Floyd, in his final moments.

What both mean for the case, Counselor Coates, next.

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CUOMO: Sorry about that. I was trying to look up that KRS-One song, from Boogie Down Productions.

All right, now, back to the matter at hands. More than 20 times, all right, some context, what was George Floyd saying to these officers? What were the officers saying to each other?

Now, you know that he was communicating he could not breathe. But we had never heard the actual footage of the bodycam, all right, which will be a big part of the official record.

We now know though, because of a new court filing, what's on those cameras, OK, specifically, because lawyers, for one of the officers charged, in his death, are trying to get his case removed, dismissed.

Now, we haven't seen the bodycam video. But this filing includes an 82-page transcript. So there's lots to dig through, no better - better to do it with than Laura Coates.

Floyd was telling them, Laura, he couldn't breathe, before they had him on the ground. What does that mean? And accent that with, at the end, he's in extremis aspects, "Tell my mother I love her. Tell my family. Tell my family I love them," that type of talk, significance?

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, SIRIUSXM HOST, "THE LAURA COATES SHOW": Well this case really remains heartbreaking, even with this transcript.

And, of course, I'm glad you mentioned the part that we still have not seen and heard, so we don't know about the tones that were used. We don't know about the demeanor of anyone speaking. All we see is sort of the Black and White issues of what is in type (ph).

What we see really gives a clearer picture. And it has a couple interesting points.

Number one, we were all led to believe, in many respects, that the very first time he indicated an inability to breathe, or a fear that he could not breathe - breathe was when he was on the ground, under the knee, unfortunately, of Officer Chauvin.

But apparently, before that, he experienced some fear of his claustrophobia and a reason why he did not want to go in the back of the squad car.

Remember, you were talking, weeks ago, about "Why do they keep moving him around? Why was he going from place to place?"

Well part of that, according to the transcript, is that he wanted to get out of the squad car. He felt claustrophobic. He was concerned about being inside there. He had apparently been shot before--

CUOMO: He told officers that. He started telling officers--

COATES: --by an officer, he said. So, he told them that. He had--

CUOMO: --he's claustrophobic, he couldn't breathe--

COATES: Yes.

CUOMO: --when they were trying to get him in the squad car.

Now, you can have the whole argument about whether they believed him or hot. But we now know that that was something that was actually being said.

COATES: Right.

CUOMO: He asks Lane not to shoot him. And then you go to the other side.

Thomas Lane may have a case that he did say to Chauvin "Should we turn him around? Should we turn him around? I'll turn him on his side."

COATES: Yes.

CUOMO: "I'm worried about this." But he never got off of him. And his argument will be "Well I didn't know what else to do." How strong is that legally?

COATES: Right. Well the idea that he was just following orders, we know thematically, over the course of history, as when people have actually said. However, it has to persuade a jury that he really did not understand that the probable cause of the action of Chauvin was going to result in the killing of a human being.

He can't just blindly follow and pretend as though he's a rookie, and that's the only reason he's not doing anything, if he knows better, as a human, as an experienced officer, even of four days.

But here's the thing. It's an interesting conundrum that they have in Minnesota because, remember, on the one hand, Officer Chauvin, who has the lead charges about second degree murder and manslaughter, those are non-intent, unintentional-based crimes in Minnesota, for what they're charging him with.

But the aiding and abetting that Lane and the two others are charged with is actually an intent-based. They have to prove that they intended, that they knowingly engaged in behavior, and tried to assist someone committing a crime. And so, his defense will really be "I didn't know a crime was being committed."

CUOMO: Right.

COATES: "I was following my Commanding Officer, and I didn't intend any of this."

CUOMO: It's going to be an interesting question. We'll follow it with you. Laura Coates, thank you.

We'll be right back.

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CUOMO: Tonight's Ameri-CAN'T, Ohio State Rep. Nino Vitale. He first made headlines, in May, when he said "Wearing a mask would dishonor God."

He still hasn't wised up despite nearly 2 million more COVID cases in his own State going south. Now he's barking about his State's new mask mandate, ordered by Governor DeWine, who you just heard from. You know he has to do it.

The Representative cries, "Are you tired of living in a dictatorship yet? This is what happens when people go crazy and get tested. STOP GETTING TESTED! It is giving the government an excuse to claim something is happening that is not happening at the magnitude they say it is happening."

What a dummy! Someone needs to give him the memo. COVID is killing us. Testing, masks, distancing, wash your hands, that's our best hope, not this fugazi talk from this guy, waving religion around.

WWJD what he's telling you right now? You really think that would be the instruction?

Remember the new model trusted by the White House. If 95 percent of us wore masks, we could save 45,000 lives by November.

Get tested, if you can. Vitale just failed his test, and it was one of leadership in this pandemic. He's a demagogue, not a leader, and that makes him an Ameri-CAN'T.

Thank you for watching. CNN TONIGHT with D. Lemon starts right now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: What are these people? I mean, come on. Really?

CUOMO: Thank God he's Irish.

LEMON: Well I'm not--

CUOMO: Nino Vitale!

LEMON: --I'm not saying.

CUOMO: Could - couldn't be more Italian than that name.

LEMON: I'm not getting in on that thing.