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Trump Again Promotes Unproven COVID-19 Treatment; Interview With Maryland Governor Larry Hogan (R). Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 28, 2020 - 20:00   ET



ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: I am just going to say this up front, the President of the United States is promoting disproven and potentially harmful medical treatments for COVID-19. And I know, look, it's not new, but in recent days, there's been talk among some of the President's supporters that he was now finally getting it, encouraging mask wearing.

But of course, once again, he's being incredibly dangerously irresponsible. He takes no responsibility for it and clearly doesn't care if it harms anyone. Yes, the President can occasionally read remarks written by someone else on a teleprompter that makes it sound like he is being responsible, which he did again this evening.

But 149,000 Americans are dead, which this self-proclaimed Wartime President again did not mention in his prepared remarks that he was reading off that paper.

And like a snake oil salesman, he is still promoting disproven medical treatments. It is unconscionable and whose medical advice is the President of the United States now promoting? It's not Dr. Fauci, not Dr. Birx, not even Dr. Redfield from the C.D.C. or the Surgeon General who has been actually begging people to wear masks.

No, the President is now promoting a doctor whose viral video has been very popular suddenly among QAnon conspiracy theorists and COVID deniers. She is doctor from Houston who also believes that women can be physically impregnated by witches in their dreams.


DR. STELLA IMMANUEL: It's what we call astral sex. That means this person is not really a demon or Nephilim, it is just a human being that is a witch, and the astral project and sleep with people.


COOPER: That's Dr. Stella Immanuel, who also has a Ministry who promises on her own YouTube page, quote, "deliverance from spirit husbands and spirit wives (incubus and succubus)." End quote.

Last night, the President retweeted this video to his 84 million followers from a press conference she and a group of doctors did yesterday at the Capitol. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IMMANUEL: I came here to Washington, D.C. to tell America nobody needs to get sick. This virus has a cure. It is called hydroxychloroquine, zinc and Zithromax.

I know people want to talk about masks, hello? You don't need masks. There is a cure. I know they don't want to open schools. No. You don't need people to be locked down. There is prevention and there is a cure.


COOPER: Now, keeping them honest, just medically, that is simply not true. The most recent study published last week in "The New England Journal of Medicine," which is a very, very reputable medical journal was done on 504 patients across 55 hospitals in Brazil and showed no benefit and also revealed heart rhythm complications, which can be deadly.

Other studies agree and the F.D.A. has revoked its emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine. The F.D.A. has done that -- President Trump's F.D.A.

And chloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19, one study which differs and is often cited by the President has come under criticism for being of a lower quality than the others, but in truth, with tens of thousands of lives on the line, not to mention the distraction this has been for the public health system in the U.S., which is stockpiling this drug, the Wartime President, the so-called Wartime President's main medical authority really seems to be this person and himself.

And that's not our assessment, it is by his own admission.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As you know, I took it for a 14-day period. And I'm here, right? I'm here.

It doesn't cause problems. I had no problem. I had absolutely no problem. And I tested as you know, it didn't -- it didn't get me and it's not going to hopefully hurt anybody.


COOPER: Yes, let's hope, you know, hopefully, it won't hurt anybody. Notice the use of the personal pronoun, "I had no problem. I took it. It didn't get me." Again, 504 patients in 55 hospitals and the latest study versus a sample of one who boasted today, quote, "I've read a lot about hydroxy." And he said this back in early March.


TRUMP: I really get it. People are surprised that I understand. Every one of these doctors said who do you know so much about this? Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for President.


COOPER: Nearly 149,000 dead Americans since he said that and the President is still by his own lights, the smartest guy in the room. The bravest Wartime President, despite having led an effort that has made this country the object of pity, and mockery and laughter in the rest of the world, a pariah whose citizens cannot even travel to most places on Earth, because of the Wartime President's statements and actions.

But because every Wartime President needs a Surgeon General, here again is the candidate the President of the United States retweeted last night.


IMMANUEL: We had a lady right here. She was sitting right there. She had been fantasizing about one of the movie stars.

When she came to deliverance ground, during prayer, she started screaming. Her stomach was full, was pregnant. She started screaming. She was tearing off her clothes. She was screaming and screaming like she was in labor.

And she said, this thing came out of me. Her stomach deflated. Right here. Real life.



COOPER: Kind of makes you miss Chuck Woolery, doesn't it? Dr. Immanuel apparently believes that lusting after movie stars can conjure demons that can make women physically pregnant with demon babies by impregnating them in their dreams.

Again, this evening, the leader of the free world overseeing the singularly failed response to a pandemic, retweeting her claims about a disproven drug therapy and praising her essentially for agreeing with his nonscientific gut beliefs.

Oh, he also took a moment to say this about the nation's leading expert on the subject.


TRUMP: So, you know, it's interesting. He's got a very good approval rating, and I like that. So why don't I have a high approval rating with respect and the administration with respect to the virus?

So it sort of is curious, a man who works for us, with us, very closely, Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx, also highly thought of, and yet they're highly thought of, but nobody likes me. It can only be my personality.


COOPER: Only my personality, he says. Certainly not Dr. Fauci's actual knowledge and training, his expertise, his humility, and the fact that he is not lying every day all the time and maybe it's these decades of, you know, service as a public servant when he could have been making millions of dollars in the private sector.

Only the Wartime President's personality, because as any biologist will tell you, it's a deadly virus, you know, it's all about personality. In any case, why trust him when you can instead trust the person who speaks about succubus on YouTube.

A woman who recently tweeted a challenge to Anthony Fauci and CNN anchors apparently whom she believes are secretly taking hydroxychloroquine quoting now, "I double dog dare y'all give me a urine sample."

CNN's Kaitlan Collins called the President on his support of this person and pressed him on it until he fled the briefing.


KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Mr. President, the woman that you said is a great doctor in that video that you retweeted last night said that masks don't work and there is a cure for COVID- 19, both of which health experts say is not true.

She's also made videos saying that doctors make medicine using DNA from aliens and that they're trying to create a vaccine to make you immune from becoming religious ...

TRUMP: Well, maybe it's a sign, maybe it's not, but I can tell you this. She was on air along with many other doctors. They were big fans of hydroxychloroquine. And I thought she was very impressive in the sense that from where she came, I don't know which country she comes from, but she said that she's had tremendous success with hundreds of different patients.

And I thought her voice was an important voice, but I know nothing about her.

COLLINS: Last night you said -- real quick.

TRUMP: Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you.


COOPER: Oh, he ran out of the room. There's too many questions, not questions I wanted. I'm going to leave.

That was that. No more questions. Speaking of Chuck Woolery, it wasn't the first time almost 13,000 lost American lives ago with 136,000 Americans dead, President Trump retweeted a former game show host warning that when it comes to COVID-19 quote, "Everyone is lying."

And what were the former game show host's medical qualifications to backup this warning not to trust the experts? He sells ointment.


CHUCK WOOLERY, FORMER GAME SHOW HOST: Hey, Chuck Woolery here with a bit of a confession. I have a new favorite emu oil. Forget the imitators. There's only one Blue Emu. Get American made Blue Emu. It works fast and you won't stink.



COOPER: You won't stink. Tired of that old emu oil. Glad we have some new emu oil. Since then, the oil salesman's son has contracted COVID and the oil salesman has deactivated his Twitter account.

Today, almost 13,000 American lives later, with the death toll about up to pass the 150,000 mark, the President of the United States is back at it and even though he admitted just this past weekend that retweeting has not been good for him.


TRUMP: You know what I find? It's not the tweets. It's the retweets that get you in trouble.


COOPER: With all due respect to the office, no, Mr. President, they get the people you serve in trouble and cause some of them their lives.

Let's get perspective now on all this from our chief political analyst Gloria Borger; and on the medical side, vaccine researcher, Dr. Peter Hotez, Dean of the Baylor University's National School of Tropical Medicine.

And Gloria, it can't be any clearer and we've learned this lesson over and over, but it can't be any clearer tonight that President Trump is simply incapable of being anything but exactly who he is, promoting conspiracy theories, focusing on himself.

You know, his biggest anger at Fauci is that Fauci -- and he continually talks about Fauci's popularity rating. I don't think Anthony Fauci cares about his Q score, his popularity rating, but that is what this President cares about. Those are the only numbers this President cares about, not 150,000 dead Americans.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. It couldn't be any clearer, Anderson. This is a President in deep political trouble, whose team said to him, you've got to start taking charge. You've got to change your tune. You've got to do short briefings. You've got to show that you really understand the science and that you care about 150,000 Americans who have passed away.

[20:10:20] BORGER: Instead, the President goes to the podium and starts spouting

this drivel, and can't seem to get out of his own way here. It is almost as if, Anderson, that the problem is so complex that he can't grab hold of it.

And instead, what he grabs hold of are conspiracy theories, which are easier to grab hold of, because you can explain the inexplicable and you can say, aha, that person is right, and therefore I am right because I believe the same thing, and that's how I'm going to get myself out of this mess, which is by keep talking about this stuff, except at this point, it's clear, you look at the polls, the public is not buying it.

COOPER: Dr. Hotez, I mean, it is -- I am just stunned yet again and just really just sad that we are in this position where all of us are, you know, every day facing this disease and this virus and the person in charge, you know, is promoting a person who believes all sorts of things about demon babies and alien DNA.

And I mean, it would be laughable if it wasn't actually incredibly serious. This is not just Donald Trump, real estate guy promoting, you know, somebody who is promoting a lot of strange ideas -- but it's not, he is the President of the United States.

I mean, let's just go -- we've done this many times before, but hydroxychloroquine. I mean, multiple studies on including, you know, the F.D.A. with the National Institutes of Health not only show it isn't effective in treating the virus, it could be harmful in some cases, correct? Medically speaking? Rationally speaking.

DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN OF THE SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Yes, absolutely, Anderson. We've had three studies just published in "The England Journal of Medicine," both as a treatment and as prophylaxis showing it absolutely does not work and increases your risk of heart disease that causes electric disturbances in the heart. This is a bad drug for COVID-19. Full stop.

The issue is this. It's not even just the President at this point. It's the White House will not get their arms around this epidemic and create a national plan and we're descending into chaos.

So we have 20 percent of the world's cases of COVID-19 in the Southern United States. Deborah Birx, Dr. Birx has pointed out now the virus is traveling up into Tennessee and into the Midwest, into Ohio and Indiana and that may reproduce what we already have in the Southern United States, which is probably the third worst epidemic -- just the southern U.S., third worst epidemic globally.

We've got teachers who are scared and now threatening to go on strike because they know they're being placed in harm's way by being forced to go into schools in the middle of communities where there's lots of raging COVID-19. The Major League Baseball season may be unraveling.

Nothing is going well and this has become a full-fledged homeland security threat as we descend into chaos and the question is, what puts the brakes on this? What prompts the reset? And you know, I'm of the opinion we've got to take this out of the

White House. There's no productive work getting done there. It's hydroxychloroquine and Chinese Communist Party conspiracy theories and deflecting to the World Health Organization. Every excuse on the planet except to implement a national plan and a national reset.

I've put a plan out there this week that says we can do this not pretty easily by October 1, others have, we have got to do it.

COOPER: Gloria, what is the political benefit to the President? Is it simply just, you know, a little head nod to his QAnon followers, to his conspiracy theorist followers, to the far reaches of his base, the fringe reaches of his base that you know, he retweets this so he keeps it keeps stirring the idea and he keeps the anger out there?

BORGER: Maybe. Maybe in some way, he is trying to solidify his base because we see in the polls that the numbers in the base are declining to a certain degree, and maybe that worries him. But maybe he just can't help himself, Anderson.

This is a President -- you know, I keep thinking back to a moment in Helsinki when the President having been informed by every Intelligence Agency that the Russians were trying to meddle in the election, had meddled in the 2016 election, he is standing next to Vladimir Putin. Putin says to him, don't be ridiculous. We would never do this. And what does the President do? He tells the world you know, I have no reason not to believe Putin.


BORGER: He will say what he wants to say, and he will believe what he wants to believe, and at this point, he can't admit that he made any mistakes during this virus, and so since he can't admit he made any mistakes, he has to -- he has to grab onto something.

And what he grabs on to is absurd, and the public is not buying it.

COOPER: Gloria Borger, Dr. Hotez, appreciate it. Thank you.

Coming up next, a Republican governor's take on today as well as his public clash with the President over testing. Larry Hogan joins us.

And later, rare congressional testimony from Attorney General Barr. We will talk to one Congresswoman who questioned him about his accountability, in a moment. We'll be right back.



COOPER: We are talking tonight with the President's continuing support for disproven COVID treatments and the questionable characters promoting them, then the reality that despite the prepared remarks he now reads at his briefings, his core beliefs which often clash with what he reads have not in fact changed. I don't even know if they're his beliefs, but the core things that he

is promoting. He still believes in phony baloney COVID cures and he is still leaning on governors to take stabs that could be harmful, especially now.


TRUMP: I really do believe a lot of the governors should be opening up states that they're not opening and we'll see what happens with them. But a lot will have to do with the fact that therapeutically I think you're going to have some great answers.


COOPER: One governor, Republican Larry Hogan in Maryland has taken issue with the President especially on his claim that states have gotten everything they need from the Federal government.

Governor Hogan recently wrote about it in a "Washington Post" op-ed titled, "Fighting Alone. I'm a G.O.P. Governor. Why didn't Trump help my state with coronavirus testing?" He's also written a book "Still Standing: Surviving Cancer, Riots and the Toxic Politics that Divide America," and he joins us tonight.

And certainly toxic politics worse than ever, probably, certainly in our lifetime. Governor Hogan, the President repeated, you know, false claims about hydroxychloroquine this afternoon, you know, defended retweeting a video espousing all kinds of falsehoods about the virus.

When the President -- do you understand just politically why he is doing this? I mean, is it just who he is? Is there -- does it help him among some, like of his QAnon followers? Is that -- is it just to rile the fringes of his base up?

GOV. LARRY HOGAN (D-MD): You know, Anderson, I'm not sure I'm qualified to opine on what goes through the President's head or why he does to say the things that he says. I'm not sure there's a logical explanation for it, quite frankly. And I don't think it's helpful.

You know, we had a call with the White House today that was led by the Vice President and we had Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci and Dr. Hahn from the F.D.A. and the whole Coronavirus Taskforce.

It was a pretty productive meeting, talking about, you know, some of the concerns about the spiking virus and the Federal government was putting out advice for states that had to start shutting down things and talking about 21 states that were, you know, hot zones and where we had to be cautious, and then the President says just the opposite.

I thought he was starting to get back on track with a better message in the past week or so, and when he started to say that the virus has the potential to get much worse for the first time, and when he was wearing a mask and tweeting out that wearing a mask is patriotic and I thought we were turning a corner.

He had prepared remarks and was doing okay. And then, you know, he just went off to the same kinds of things. And it's one of the concerns I've had, and I can't explain it. I don't think it's helpful.

But, you know, the rest of the team is kind of on one message, and then the President says sometimes almost the complete opposite.

COOPER: So since you're -- I mean, just messaging aside, just in terms of stuff actually getting done, you have this, you know, relatively productive or productive meeting on the phone with the Taskforce, and it feels like okay, things are moving in the right direction.

The President says this. Does it matter what the President says? I mean, is it -- is the work being done off to the side and whatever he is saying about, you know -- I mean, I know they've stocked, they've spent a lot of money stockpiling hydroxychloroquine, but does it matter?

HOGAN: I think it matters, of course, it does. I mean, I don't want to take away from the good work that is. There are some things that are happening, and you know, I always give credit to the folks in the administration that are getting good things done.

And the Vice President is serious and focused, and there's some smart doctors and scientists that are getting things done and some of the important agencies.

But I don't think the President is listening to those folks all the time. And, you know, I just think they're concerned, I would imagine that sometimes they'll have a productive meeting. It happened just a short while ago, when the C.D.C. put out great guidelines on the schools, and later that afternoon, the President said, you know, he was demanding that everybody immediately open all the schools.

You know, today it was about telling states that they needed to be cautious and some states had to start shutting down. The President was saying, we've got to open everybody up. And then he started talking about hydroxychloroquine and a few other things that were way off message.

I can't explain it. I don't think it helps with the base. You know, his problem right now is not his hardcore base that are going to vote for him no matter what. His problem is, he is not reaching anyone else.


HOGAN: And, you know, that's why he's in trouble politically. He's not reaching those folks that are undecided.

COOPER: I want to ask you about your state and how you're doing especially on testing.


HOGAN: So we've ramped up testing dramatically in our state. I mean, this has been a problem without a national testing strategy, which I think was one of the mistakes they made early on. But we've ramped up considerably.

We're about 400 percent more testing than we did 30 days ago, which is one of the reasons why, you know, we're starting to see a slight uptick in the number of cases, but our positivity rate continues to trend in the right direction.

But I'll tell you what? Our state labs were able to turn things around in about 24 to 48 hours, but we're starting to see these slow results from these national private labs because they're backed up on some of these overwhelming cases from other states, and it's taking up to 10 days, which makes the results almost worthless, because by the time you identify those cases, it's too late. They've already spread.

COOPER: Yes, we are hearing in some places two weeks, which is just you know -- and as you said, it makes the test meaningless. Because you know, who knows you've spread it to by then.

HOGAN: Right.

COOPER: Governor Hogan, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.

HOGAN: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: More breaking news just ahead. New schedule changes due to COVID outbreak in Major League Baseball and now several NFL players made public their decision about whether to play in the fall.

Coming up I'll talk with Dr. Myron Rolle, a former professional football player who is now a doctor, who has treated patients on the frontlines.



COOPER: More breaking news tonight. According to ESPN Major League Baseball has postponed all the Miami Marlins games through Sunday. This after several players and coaches were diagnosed with COVID-19. There was collateral damage to other teams as well. Tonight's New York Yankees game in Philadelphia was called off because the Marlins have use the visiting teams locker room for a weekend series. Besides all this, several high profile NFL players announce they would not play in the upcoming season, citing worries about the pandemic. Among them to stars the New England Patriots Dante Hightower, who said he was concerned about the health of his newborn son and his mother who has Type II diabetes. His teammate Patrick Chung told ESP, he's also opting out.

And tonight, the NFL players Association reported the 21 players reported positive for the coronavirus since the beginning of training camp. There were 107 players who tested positive during the offseason.

Joining me now, is Dr. Myron Rolle himself a former standout NFL player and currently a neurosurgery resident at Massachusetts General Hospital. Dr. Rolle thanks so much for being with us. You've played in the NFL now. You're in your third year as a neurosurgery resident fighting coronavirus on the front lines. Is it safe to return to professional sports right now while the cases are still spreading?

MYRON ROLLE, NEUROSURGERY RESIDENT, MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL HOSPITAL: Well, thanks for having me. Anderson. I do not think it's safe to return right now. You know, the NFL is a part of the fabric of the country. They've tried for a long time to permeate itself into the community by advancing Domestic Violence Awareness, Breast Cancer Awareness. When I played, it would have us go to schools and Boys and Girls Clubs to talk about education. I even went over to England as part of an initiative to sort of get the American culture into another continent. And so, if the NFL wants to be a part of the community, then I think it needs to be responsible and think about what's actually happening in the community right now.

A pandemic is happening, infection rates going up, hospitalizations occurring, PPE certainly at a high demand, if that's the case, and be a leader and be at the forefront and put the player safety and their family's safety as a premium.

COOPER: So what do you think would need to happen for football, other sports to combat?

ROLLE: Well, I think that the pandemic needs to slow down. I mentioned our hospital. We did a really good job. I think being proactive with our decision making. You know, I think we have maybe five confirmed COVID-19 patients in our ICU, maybe 40 at risk. The numbers have gone down in Boston itself. And so, I think a two pronged approach with a great medical personnel doing its job. And then normal citizens really doing the behavior, lifestyle modifications, working hard. I think all that is has worked. But when you have fandom, states that are hotbed when you have players that come in from these places, I think it's very difficult to sort of, say, I want a social distance in a sport that's inherently close. You need to be cohesive, need to be in a locker room, you need to be in a huddle, need to have walkthroughs close together. So it's very difficult.

I think that the NFL should delay the sport, or even canceled this year to allow the wonderful women and men who are on the frontlines to really get ahead of this pandemic and make it safer for everyone to come back to the sport.

COOPER: It is -- I mean, looking at NFL it's obviously a, you know, high contact sport much more so than baseball which is being hit by a number of cases. I mean, baseball teams can keep players safe. You look at, you know, football, basketball teams where there's much more interaction certainly on the court.

ROLLE: Yes, absolutely. You know, you have a sport where you just cannot distance yourself, right? It's actually encouraged to be physical, it's encouraged to have hand fighting at the line of scrimmage to tackle a player. And as a football player, the former player, I would say, you know, if you're thinking about trying to keep yourself safe in the midst of a game that inches matter, one step too slow, one step too late. That's a touchdown, that's a win versus a loss. These players have a lot of pressure on them already. And so, add on that extra burden of thinking if they're going to be safe, thinking if they're going to transmit this virus back to their families, their loved ones. As you mentioned, a lot of players already opt out for the New England Patriots and other places around the league. It's very unfair to the players. And I think that the NFL should really stand up as a leader.

So you know what, let's pause, put the brakes on this. I know we want to experiment with advanced testing, with advanced technologies to detect symptoms earlier, but right now, I think it's just probably not the wisest thing to do.

COOPER: You know, when we talk to service members who have, you know, been in a combat zone overseas and then come back home and find that, you know, it's a hard adjustment because much of the rest of the population isn't directly impacted by what's happening in Afghanistan or what was happening in Iraq when U.S. forces were serving there.


I'm wondering as a doctor on the front lines, is it strange to, you know, be in the midst of this every day at work, and then leave the hospital setting and find, you know, people griping about wearing a mask or refusing to wear a masks because they -- you know, they just don't want to do it?

ROLLE: Well, you know, Anderson, I went to mash in our hospitals and neurosurgery resident to do brain tumors and fixed spines and reanimated peripheral nerves and people had traumatic events. And so, when COVID-19 came in our chairman, Bob Carter said, you know, let's redistribute you guys to different parts of the hospital and basically foot soldiers for the emergency room doctors and the intensivists, who were really, really at the front lines. I, my colleagues, we said yes, let's do it.

And so when you leave the house when you see people, you know, concerned about wearing a mask or, you know, concerned about starting school up or having these big assemblies and coming together, you almost want to take them and place them into the hospital and see these patients being emergency intubated, these patients not having their family members around, because, you know, we're trying to protect themselves, protect the staff and protect everyone around, you would love to put them into our situation and see what's actually happening.

But, you know, it's just about being educated and trying to be advocates for what's actually happening on the hospital side of things. And hopefully the buy in from leadership says, you know what, this is real. We need to affect change and a two pronged approach and do the best we can, because I'm optimistic we can get over it, but it may take some time and we just need to be slow and go very conservative with it.

COOPER: Yes. Well Dr. Myron Rolle, I appreciate all you and your fellow doctors doing. Thank you so much.

ROLLE: Thank you. COOPER: Just ahead, contentious Judiciary Committee hearing for the President's top cop, Attorney General William Barr today. Committee member Sheila Jackson Lee joins us to discuss what he said to her about systematic racism in police department.



COOPER: Attorney General William Barr taking tough questions today about his actions and previous statements. A combative Judiciary Committee hearing forced the President's top lawyer and law enforcement officer to defend alleged preferential legal treatment for President Trump and saw him struggle with whether it's OK to accept foreign assistance in elections. I'll get to that exchange in a moment because it was sparring with Democrats over a police treatment of black Americans and federal law enforcement action against protesters that produce some of the test data exchanges.


REP. DAVID CICILLINE (D-RI): Do you think Americans who show up to peacefully protest? Should expect to be beaten and pepper sprayed and have their bones broken by federal offices?

WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, I don't think that what was happening immediately around the courthouse was a peaceful protest.

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): You take an aggressive approach to Black Lives Matter protests, but not to right wing extremists threatening to Lynch a governor. If it's for the Trump's -- if it's for the President's benefit. Don't get it right. Mr. Barr?

BARR: I have responsibility for the federal government.

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): You seem to have a difficult time understanding systemic racism and institutional racism that has plagued so many. Mr. Attorney General, do you understand a black mothers or parents talk to their child to their son? Do you know what that is?

BARR: I think I do.

JACKSON LEE: I don't know if you do but Trayvon Martin Ahmaud Arbery, Tamir Rice, Michael Brown, Sean Bell and George Floyd, black mothers and fathers have had to talk to their sons about police violence.


COOPER: Joining us now, Committee Member you saw at the end there Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas.

Thanks so much for being with us Congressman Jackson Lee. Was Attorney General Barr's answer to your question satisfying to you? Do you think he believes there is systemic racism? JACKSON LEE: Well, tragically, I absolutely do not think he believes it nor is the President of the United States. And frankly, we were all trying to remind him that the core of the peaceful protesters all over this nation, all over the world came about by seeing not, as his statement said, when he made his opening statement that George Floyd's death was shocking. I corrected him and said it was not shocking, it was a murder on the streets of America at the hands of the misconduct of police officers.

The Judiciary Committee knows good policing when we see it. But we also know that the core of bad policing has been over the years. systemic racism, institutional racism that has caused Anderson as you have heard, the greatest stops of African-Americans and searches in terms of traffic stops, the greatest stops of Native Americans, more tickets being given to Hispanic Americans. And it has not stopped.

And frankly, I wanted to know, just a simple, basic question of the 20th century, 21st century evidenced and obviously enhanced by what has been seared into our minds. George Floyd, my constituent, his family members grew up in Cuney Homes and went to Jack Yates High School of a man who was like Eric Garner on the streets of one of our major cities saying I can't breathe and calling out for his mother. Did he understand -- did General Barr understand that this was not a single incident, but it occurred over and over and over again.

COOPER: Republicans we're certainly trying to paint a picture which really alliance with the Trump campaign ads that all these protests are violent over running cities in America is under attack.

JACKSON LEE: You know, I served as a city council for a number of years in my city, the city of Houston. And I understand, I hear the mayors and local officials saying to the President, you're unwanted. We were able to handle these matters. We have handled these matters. And again, I wanted to reinforce that these were peaceful protests, out of sheer outrage of people from all backgrounds, all races color and creed. That was the moving and momentous time of what we saw. We saw young people coming from everywhere, saying Black Lives Matter.

But what happened? Because the President needed a political presidential narrative for his campaign, all of a sudden, really out of the blue came the ignoring of the horrors of George Floyd's death, what his family is now going through. What Breonna Taylor's family is going through. What Tamir Rice's family is going through now for six years. And it was a moment in history for the administration to take advantage of, to pitch people against each other, to put professors and others in hospital beds, having been beaten and shot.


And frankly, put, I believe, men and women who came to serve their government for the good things for civil liberties, what is right. And I mean, those who are now wearing these uniforms being told by the President to go against fellow citizens. I don't know if that was their intention when they took their oath as a part of the Department of Homeland Security or U.S. Marshals or any other part. But here they are being directed -- or National Guardsmen, here they are directed to go against fellow citizens who are doing nothing more than expressing their outrage of the violence that they saw by bad policing.

And I'm not going to allow them Anderson to push us into a corner, where we are against the idea of safety and security. What those who are on the streets are against is the mistreatment, the violence, the loss of lives, of those whose names I called. Again like Sandra Bland and Pamela Turner and others.


JACKSON LEE: That's what they're against.

COOPER: Sheila Jackson Lee, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

JACKSON LEE: Thank you for having me.

COOPER: Here now is the Judiciary Committee's former impeachment counsel Norman Eisen, his former White House ethics are for President Obama, author of A Case with the American People, The United States Versus Donald J. Trump, which is out today.

Ambassador Eisen, knowing everything you know, as the former impeachment counsel to the Democrats on this committee, I'm wondering what your impressions were of watching Attorney General Barr's performance today.

NORMAN EISEN, FMR IMPEACHMENT COUNSEL, HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Anderson, thank you for having me back. The Attorney General's performance today was shameful. He doubled down on lies large and small, continuing his misrepresentations which a federal court not me, Anderson, a Federal Court has said his miss -- his representations about the Mueller report were dishonest. The small lies to that no tear gas was fired on protesters in Lafayette Park. I thought that committee did a good job considering the five minutes segments and the disruptions of the Republicans that the majority on the committee did a good job of pinning him down and exposing him to the American people.

And Anderson, one of the most troubling things I saw today, having sat on that day is and I write in a case for the American people about the Attorney General's propensity for lying to protect Donald Trump. But he was openly disdainful of women and people of color. I thought much more so than the other members. And that was troubling, too.

COOPER: I want to play an exchange between Cicilline and Barr today, which kind of got to the heart of the impeachment of the President, which would you worked on. Let's listen.


CICILLINE: Is it ever appropriate, sir, for the President to solicit or accept foreign assistance in an election?

BARR: Depends what kind of assistance.

CICILLINE: Is it ever appropriate for the President or presidential candidate to accept or solicit foreign assistance of any kind in his or her election?

BARR: No, it's not appropriate.


COOPER: No, it's not appropriate. What do you think that he initially said depends what kind of assistance and then said no, it's not appropriate?

EISEN: Yes, Anderson, I write about this in the book. That's our reference. He's hesitating there because the President, the through line of the President's behavior from Russia, are you listening to saying the same thing basically to the Ukrainian president, to now the way he's exploiting the risk to our elections in, in essence, welcoming attacks on our elections by refusing to hold Russia accountable. The President seeks foreign interference in our elections.

Congressman Cicilline, he did a good job of pinning the Attorney General down. The problem is Anderson. The AG has been the enabler in chief as I explained on Ukraine, he tried to block the whistleblower report. That blew open Ukraine in the impeachment with phony legal justifications and we heard a lot of those.


EISEN: So, he has had a shameful record and he only made it worse today.

COOPER: That your book there. Your new book is a Case For The American People The United States v. Donald Trump. And you describe how the House Judiciary Committee originally drew up 10 articles of impeachment including obstruction, obstructing the Russia investigation and authorizing hush money payments for women. Do you think was a mistake for the Democrats not to go down that path and just focus on very narrow set of charges in the end?

EISEN: Well, Anderson as one of the principal drafters of those 10 articles, for months, I carried them around, folded over in my pocket to measure the President's behavior as it got worse and worse. Of course, I would have liked to have seen all 10 articles. But politics is the art of the possible. And the coalition, the majority in the House was able to unify around two articles. One for abuse of power, one for obstruction of Congress on the Ukraine matter.


But those two articles contained within them a description of the President's pattern as I've described, starting with Russia, are you listening? And all of the features we worked in, all of the features myself, my co-counsel, Barry Burke, Joshua Mats, all the people who work on the impeachment, we worked in all of the features of the 10 articles. So, if you look at the book, look again, at those two articles, you'll see aspects of all 10 contained in them.

COOPER: Norm Eisen, I appreciate your time. Thanks so much. EISEN: Thanks, Anderson.

COOPER: Got new information on Joe Biden's pick from vice president when we return.


COOPER: Joe Biden today teased a little bit more about his vice presidential pick in Delaware today, said he'll make his decision next week, when we'll hear about it unknown, likely before the Democratic Convention, which starts August 17. Joe Biden has said he'll pick a woman also that among those under consideration are for African- American women. That's what we know so far.

See when -- we'll see Chris Cuomo just a few minutes about five or six minutes from now. When we come back, we remember the victims of the pandemic including the youngest person to die of coronavirus in Florida.



COOPER: Tonight with the death toll in America nearing 150,000 we remember more of the lives lost so far from this virus.

Jose Perez was a firefighter and a paramedic with the Los Angeles City Fire Department. He worked there for more than 16 years. It's unclear how he became infected, but the L.A. Fire Department has been hit hard in this pandemic. There have been at least 145 positive cases in the department. Jose is the first firefighter to die from this virus. It leaves behind a wife and three children. Jose Perez was 44 years old.

Kimora Lynum was called Kimmie by her family. She's the youngest person to die from the virus in the state of Florida. She was a happy little girl, was healthy didn't have any pre existing conditions. Her family says they don't know how she contracted the virus. She was spending the summer at home not attending school or summer camp and she didn't have any close contact with anyone who recently had the virus cording to state health department records. Even so, Kimmie came down with high fever one day, she was brought to the hospital. The hospital later sent her home and soon after that she collapsed. Kimmie Lynum is the fifth minor in Florida to die, she was only nine years old.

And Joel Revzen was an assistant conductor with the famed Metropolitan Opera Orchestra in New York. Made his conducting debut in 2017. The Washington Post once reviewed him as a graceful and intelligence conductor who paid attention to the smallest details. Joel was known not just for his talent, but for his generosity, his spirit. His colleagues say he was thoughtful and kind and supportive presence. His wife Cindy says he lived a life full of joy and light and that he not only made music from the heart, he also led from the heart. Joel Revzen was 74 years old.

That's all we have for right now. Thanks so much for watching. We'll be back tomorrow on 360. The news continues right now. I want to hand things over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIMETIME". Chris?