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CNN'S AMANPOUR

Women Favoring Fmr. Vice President Biden over Trump According to Poll; Gloria Steinem, Feminist Activist, and Julie Taymor, Director, "The Glorias," are Interviewed About Women's Ballots in 2020 Presidential Election; LatinX Voters, Biggest Nonwhite Bloc for the First Time in History; Interview With Photographer Misan Harriman; What Do Republicans Make of Trump Debate Performance?; Interview With Former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Julian Castro. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired October 1, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:00]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm struggling. I'm struggling this year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Women are the biggest voting bloc, but how will they cast their ballots in this year's presidential election? I speak to America's leading

activist, Gloria Steinem, and director of the new biopic, "The Glorias," Julie Taymor.

Then --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FMR. MAYOR JULIAN CASTRO (D-SAN ANTONIO, TX): Vice President Biden is not yet where, you know, the campaign wants to be with Latinos.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Latinx voters, another key bloc. Former cabinet secretary, Julian Castro, tells our Walter Isaacson what it will take for the

Democrats to win them over.

And --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that the country would be better served if we allowed both people to speak with fewer interruptions. I'm appealing to

you, sir, to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: A performance that even some Republicans disavowed. But what does the president's kitchen cabinet think. I asked Newsmax CEO and Trump

confidant, Chris Ruddy.

Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

The U.S. election is a little more than a month away now and there is one big hurdle for President Trump, and that's women. We know that they helped

push him to victory in 2016. But this year, just look at Pennsylvania which went to Trump in the last election, but now, women favor his Democratic

challenger, former Vice President Joe Biden, by 23 points according to a Washington Post ABC News poll this week. And Tuesday's debate may not have

helped, with several Republicans criticizing the president's behavior on stage.

There is much at stake, of course, in this year's election from the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court, which could bring

potential setbacks on women's rights to a pandemic that is disproportionately affected women's livelihoods and their mental health,

especially amongst women of color. And my first guest tonight has spent her life fighting for women's rights, in the workplace, at home and over our

own bodies.

Gloria Steinem is the most famous face and the mother of American feminism today, and her amazing story has been turned into a biopic called, "The

Glorias." She was the first to champion into sexual feminism the inextricable link between black and other women of color, systemic racism

and misogyny. The film is streaming on Amazon right now and here's a little clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This year, the press has finally discovered a movement that has already been strong for several years now, and reported

it as a small privileged, rather lunatic event instead of a major evolution of consciousness, everyone's consciousness, male and female, black and

white. This is the year or women's liberation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Now, "The Glorias," is directed by Julie Taymor who also gave the "Lion King" its stage adaptation amongst many other productions. And

they are both joining me now.

Welcome to the program.

Let me ask you because, you know, women are in focus and it's amazing to have you both on this issue today. Gloria Steinem, you probably saw the

debate or certainly heard about it.

GLORIA STEINEM, FEMINIST ACTIVIST: Yes, I did. Yes.

AMANPOUR: What do you think -- I'm going to ask you both, it did for the women's vote, which did push President Trump over the line last time

around?

STEINEM: It did -- you know, discouraged the women's vote, I would think, because, first of all, we weren't included in the debate in any way. And

secondly, Trump was so outrageously aggressive, which is exactly the kind of attitude that women don't like.

AMANPOUR: And, Julie Taymor, what did you think, as a -- to be frank, from your vantage point as a theater, as a production, as a performance

appealing presumably to voters including women, at least that was the attempt presumably?

JULIE TAYMOR, DIRECTOR, "THE GLORIAS": Oh, I think for women it was very unappealing. So, I agree with Gloria. But I also think that, you know, it

was very clear his agenda was not to have any real issues spoken by Biden, that he didn't want too much of the taxes or too much of Roe v. Wade. I

mean, I did get mentioned for a brief second, but he just had a plan to not let Biden speak, and that is the drama of it all, and I had I had to walk

away after a half an hour. It was just too much.

[14:05:00]

AMANPOUR: Well, you are a woman and a voter. So, that's interesting. And we've even heard from senior Republicans, particularly those who, you know,

do focus groups amongst women, amongst president's supporters that many of them were quite turned off.

But I want to now talk about your film, "The Glorias." You -- you know, you started -- you've been filming with Gloria since the 2016 election. And

because Hillary Clinton lost, you decided not to put that aspect in the film, instead, you put in the film part of where she addressed the women's

March the day -- I believe it was the day of -- or right after the inauguration. So, I want to start with the real Gloria speaking at the

women's March in Washington, January 2017.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEINEM: This is the upside of the downside. This is an outpouring of energy and through democracy like I have never seen in my very long life.

It is wide in age. It is deep in diversity. And remember, the constitution does not begin with either President, it begins with we the people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So, I think, you know, just reading it back, before we -- I saw the whole clip again, you know, you call it the upside of the downside, and

I wonder whether, Gloria, you still think that the upside has trumped the downside.

STEINEM: Yes. There is no downplaying the amount of damage that is possible from the presidency. But it is also true that now two-thirds of

the country is awake to the issues in a way that they would not have been before. A third of the country has succeeded in seizing the top positions,

but we have also been educated by seeing everything that's wrong with the country at -- in the White House.

So, there is an enormous wave of -- and also, right now, perhaps because of the pandemic and people can't work, you know, so they have time, so that

the demonstrations in the street, peaceful demonstrations, have outdone in numbers and in -- just, and in depth, anything I've ever seen.

AMANPOUR: Well, that's quite something given that you've been at many demonstrations and many protests throughout your long years as an activist.

And, Julie Taymor, why did you decide to end the film with that and not proceed into the Trump administration?

TAYMOR: Well, we were -- I think that that is a fitting ending, we the people. I think that is a fitting ending to "The Glorias." It's not about

Trump it's about the women and about the men and about us, and that's what we have to remember.

I mean, we did shoot -- I think you might have heard this, but we did shoot the night of the election at Samantha Power's apartment with 40 female

ambassadors, Madeleine Albright, Gloria Steinem, watching the debacle at that election, and it was just so depressing. I -- you know, we thought

maybe this film would be a celebration of the first female president, but Gloria brought that magnificent article the next day and that's included in

the film.

And I thought that after you have three -- four other Glorias starting from age six right up until age 85, I thought, you know, we're going to end the

film with where we are now because this is where we are now, we the people have the right to vote. It's our presidency.

AMANPOUR: And just to be clear, you say four other Glorias. Yes, you have four actresses. I mean, they are really amazing. I think the most well-

known are Julianne Moore who plays the later Gloria and just before her, Alicia Vikander, and then you have the two younger ones who deliver really

amazing performances.

But so, let me ask you though because it is political, it is about President Trump and it is also about nominating and he was asked about this

on stage about the Supreme Court nominating a woman and yet, a woman who appears to be -- well, she is Roman Catholic but she says she will deal

with president and not allow her faith to interfere in her judicial jurisprudence. But she's also apparently have ties with something called

The People of Praise, which is a Christian group which holds that men are divinely ordained as the head of the family and faith.

What was your reaction to her nomination? And I really mean in terms of the rights that you've spent your life lobbying and acting for, Gloria?

[14:10:00]

STEINEM: Well, it's like having Phyllis Schlafly put on the Supreme Court. I mean, that's who she is. It's very discouraging. But before abortion was

legal, one in three women had an abortion. Now, one in four women have had an abortion. It's something that is it a needed part of many women's

reproductive lives, it's not going to stop. It may become more dangerous as it has already and in some states.

But the swell of public opinion and public practice is going to just overcome anything that happens on the court. It will be difficult, it will

be painful, but it will happen.

AMANPOUR: So, I want to ask you because, again, it's clearly of big issue for many women and frankly, more than 60 percent of the American people do

not believe that Roe versus Wade should be overturned. But I want to ask you because it's really interesting this, given, as you've talked, about

activism, winning rights and then seeing backlashes.

There's a recent article that I saw that reminded that even Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, back in 1992, gave a lecture in which she suggested that

perhaps Roe was a mistake. She basically said that it happened, you know, when there was -- it was a very narrow decision, opened up a dialogue with

state legislation. She said that, state legislatures will, in any event, moving towards more liberal statutes on the issue of choice. And she said,

Roe halted a political process that was moving in a reform direction and thereby, I believe prolonged divisiveness and deferred stable settlement of

the issue.

So, just a last word on this issue, Gloria. Do you think that it will go back to the states and people will then democratically have their word on

it, it will be solidified rather than a potential court case that can, you know, be challenge?

STEINEM: Well, at first women are going to do what we're going to do whatever the law is. I mean, that has always happened and that will remain

true. I agree that state by state is technically better, but state legislatures tend to be more controlled by business interests and economic

interests, even then the Congress. So, we discovered that with the Equal Rights Amendment, which was defeated because that, because of the economic

interests that would lose if it passed and it was as a state legislative process. So, I -- you know, it may have been better in content but it would

have been slower in time.

AMANPOUR: It's interesting. We would see what happens in the upcoming months and years. Julie Taymor, you heard Gloria mention Phyllis Schlafly

and obviously she was the anti-ERA activist, again, raised by the backlash to Roe, I guess. You have made this film on Gloria at a time when actually

there are quite a lot of films being made about prominent women. Phyllis Schlafly was one of the protagonists, as was Gloria and many other women,

in "Mrs. America" which was streaming on FXHulu.

Is this somehow a good time to be doing biopics on these, you know, very prominent women? Did you find it kind of easy to get funding, to get

approval or whichever the process works?

TAYMOR: So, we started before "Mrs. America." I started this five years ago. We are a featured film that is a TV series. So, there actually aren't

any other films on the second wave of feminism. There aren't any dramatic films like this one. And we didn't know that that one even was going to

happen. And they're extremely opposite in many ways.

I think one of the most important things about "The Glorias" is that it's about women supporting women. It's not a cat fight. It's not competition.

It's a love letter between Gloria Steinem, Flo Kennedy, Dorothy Pitman Hughes, Bella Abzug, Wilma Mankiller, you know, especially the other -- the

women of color who were at the forefront of feminism and do not get the acknowledgement that they should.

So, when we say "The Glorias," the idea of "The Glorias" is the four women who play her plus, obviously, the real one, but it's also a notion that

Gloria Steinem, one of her greatest attributes is that she's a listener and that she is a composite and has been part of these women are who she is as

well, that they joined together, they were on the road together, they were up on that marches, at the Houston Women's Conference, Ms. Magazine.

[14:15:00]

So, it is really this -- it's a very different storytelling the only other ones, the other two that you're probably referring to, the stage play. And

I don't think there's another movie of Gloria Steinem's life and these women.

AMANPOUR: No. Yes, I mean -- yes. That's true. I want to bring one of the clips because it's relevant. But how -- did you get funding? How did you

fund this?

TAYMOR: Well, no. Of course not. Are you kidding me? We went to Hollywood with the bestseller, myself and Julianne Moore attached, and we couldn't

get enough money. It's an epic movie. It covers all of America for 80 years and India. We went and shot in India.

So, we decided -- Lynn Hendee, my producer, and myself, with Gloria that we were going to accept this piddling little money that was being (INAUDIBLE)

for this film, which has -- a film about this part of history and this credible story. So, Gloria brought us to a philanthropist couple who gives

money to women's causes. And they love Gloria, they like the script very much and we raised the money not for profit, they gave us the money.

So, if this were in movie theaters -- this is unheard of, by the way. If this were in movie theaters, the recoupment would have gone to women's

causes and it still will if it can make some money. So, we're -- you know, we're streaming now, which is great because we want a lot of people, men

and women and young people to see it. Forget the R rating in my opinion. I'm just sorry this is nothing -- there's nothing that's R about this film.

So, it's really important that kids see this movie as well. To see what they're -- that -- you know, that you -- right, Christiane, this is not an

R rated film.

AMANPOUR: No, no, no. Of course not. And it's really important and you've done it. It's very theatrical. It's quite mesmerizing the -- you know, the

vehicle of using four different actresses and going back and forth in time and going to India is remarkable.

And as you mentioned -- and I want to play this clip, we have a couple of clips that we are able to play, the intersectionality. In other words,

Gloria, you were the first to say, look, it's not about me and white women, it's about black women, women of color. You mentioned, you know, Mankiller,

you mentioned all the names who are in this film, the activists black women, women of color.

So, I want to play this little clip of when you and Flo Kennedy, a lawyer, were at a press conference and this is you being played by Alicia Vikander.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you address this new term sexual harassment and whether you've ever experienced it? And, Flo, could you talk about racism

in America?

ALICIA VIKANDER, ACTOR, "THE GLORIAS": I just want to point out that you directed a question to me about universal womanhood and to Flo about the

condition of being black. Do you think Flo is unable to answer a question about the condition of being a woman?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Kennedy, what do you have to say about that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you've experience (INAUDIBLE) you're more likely to recognize it in another. Racism and sexism are intertwined, they cannot

be uprooted separately.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Steinem, a lot of people say your looks at white people will listen to you not what you have to say.

VIKANDER: Is that a question?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: I mean, there's just so much to unpack there. First your humor Gloria, you were able to push back on so many of those dumb questions that

were the last one. But also, what is really today the idea of sexism and racism being really part and parcel of a very similar struggle the

uprisings are trying to deal with right now.

You know, you once said that the obvious thing was that, as a white woman, maybe you needed to, you know, somehow always put black women, you know,

next to you or you be next to them and put them in their correct, you know, places, leaders. Tell me about that and what brought you to that.

STEINEM: Well, first of all, feminism has been led by black women. And if you look statistically, even now, you will see the black women are like 90

percent there on all the issues and white women are maybe 50 or 60 percent. There's still a great difference. But I think what we have to understand

that -- is that racism requires sexism and vice versa. You can't maintain racial difference without controlling reproduction. That's what Flo was

saying.

So, they are absolutely intertwined. There is no way. It's not just about being inclusive because that sounds like white people have the power to be

inclusive. It's that you absolutely cannot do anything about sexism without understanding, as Flo says, that it is inextricably intertwined, the major

motive to maintain, control of reproduction, which means women's bodies, is to continue racism.

[14:20:00]

AMANPOUR: Last question because I'm afraid we have to go. What gives you hope right now?

STEINEM: Well, what gives me hope is the uprisings I see in the street, peaceful uprisings. It used to be that you had to organize a demonstration.

Now, they're happening naturally, organically in every city. There is a focus on police violence, which is always been a problem, although not

certainly as with all police, but we are -- it's just -- it's an exposure of what's wrong and a gigantic uprising to do something about it. So,

that's what gives me hope.

AMANPOUR: OK. Well, both of you could talk for much, much longer. Gloria Steinem, Julie Taymor, thank you so much for joining us.

As I said, the film is streaming right now.

In a moment, I'll be speaking with President Trump's confidant and CEO of the conservative website, Newsmax, that's Chris Ruddy. But first, let's

talk more about key voters in this election. Latinx will be the biggest nonwhite bloc for the first time in history with 32 million eligible

voters. Julian Castro was the only Latino to run for president this election season before he pulled out early in the primaries. And he's the

former mayor of San Antonio, Texas. He was also secretary for Housing and Urban Development under President Obama.

Even though he was a strong critic of Joe Biden's record on immigration during the primaries, here, he tells our Walter Isaacson why, in fact,

Biden is the right man for this moment and what he made of that debate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER ISAACSON, CNN HOST: Thank you, Christiane. And Secretary Julian Castro, welcome to the show.

FMR. MAYOR JULIAN CASTRO (D-SAN ANTONIO, TX): Great to be with you, Walter.

ISAACSON: You've got two young kids. I think they're probably a little too young to be watching the debate. But do you worry about them saying

American politics in action these days?

CASTRO: I mean, what I worry about is that a lot of young people already, as you know, don't vote. They're the hardest segment of our population to

get out to vote. And if somebody is tuning into that, I mean, I think in that sense, Trump accomplishes what he wants because people throw their

hands up after about three minutes, they turn the channel, don't watch anymore of it. And so, instead of attracting people into our democracy to

participate, you repel people and that helps Donald Trump fundamentally/

So, yes, for my own kids, you know, they watch some of it. They just get the wrong message. And I think that Joe Biden had it right. This guy is not

serious. He was acting, unfortunately, like a clown. Nobody takes joy in saying that. Nobody wants the leader of their country, especially in the

United States of America, you know, to act like that, but that's true, that's accurate.

ISAACSON: Trump refused to denounce white supremacist groups including the Proud Boys. Do you the core of his message is some racist, the white

supremacist dog whistle?

CASTRO: Well, absolutely. I mean, Trump has been the biggest dog whistle politician, racial grievance politician that we've seen on the national

stage since George Wallace. I mean, that is how he's hoping to win. He won -- I think he believes he won Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania by just

juicing out enough support from people that might sympathize with him there and by depressing the turnout of African-Americans. And so, this is one

more dog whistle to try and amp up what he sees as his base.

And it's unfortunate because, you know, as, you know, there have been presidents who in moments have gone counter to the knock on them or the

narrative about them. He had a perfect moment just like he did when Senator McCain died, when he could have been gracious, he could have given Senator

McCain his do as a war hero, as a patriot. He could have said, you know what, yes. You know, after everything that we've been through, after what

happened to George Floyd, after all of the unrest up there, you know, stand back, stand down not standby, which is what he said, it was another moment

where he tried to put himself and his own political interests above the interests of the country.

ISAACSON: Trump's most (INAUDIBLE) consistent political message has been to rail against illegal immigration and indeed, at times, against all

immigration. Do you think that that's a racist message?

CASTRO: I think it plays on it for sure. I don't think that this president is simply interested in stopping people who are undocumented from coming

into the country just because, in fact, he has a track record as a business owner of using undocumented labor in his business. So, he has consistently

been able -- been willing to accept undocumented labor when it has profited him.

[14:25:00]

He uses it in politics because, again, he knows that it caters to this base of people that he can juice support from to turn out and vote for him. And

if you didn't do that, you know, I know I think he might just as well keep his mouth shut and keep profiting off of undocumented labor. But he knows

what he's doing.

ISAACSON: During your campaign you strongly challenged Vice President Biden on immigration and you said that crossing the border with

authorization should not be illegal or a crime. You know, by Biden disagreed and he said, if you cross the border illegally, it should be a

crime. Are you comfortable with his position now?

CASTRO: Yes. Look, Joe Biden has a reasonable and commonsense approach on immigration. I don't expect Vice President Biden to agree with me or, you

know, other folks on every single point. What I do see in his policy is, number one, that he wants to stop the cruelty, he wants to replace that

with an actual plan for sensible immigration policy. That means a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. It means ensuring that dreamers

can stay in the United States and have peace of mind and can keep contributing to our nation's progress. It means ending cruel policies like

that migrant protection protocols or remain in Mexico policy.

So, yes. I mean, what I see in Joe Biden is somebody that understands we need to go in a different direction. And I believe the American people

understand that as well.

ISAACSON: You know, back in 2013 when you were San Antonio mayor you endorsed originally Obama's enhanced immigration enforcement and then you

and Joe Biden served in an administration that actually deported, you know, 3 million people and even separated families, although on a much smaller

scale than has happened in this administration. Do you feel that -- how do you feel about those policies now and did you and Biden do enough to

prevent those deportation?

CASTRO: Well, I said very clearly on the debate stage that we needed to learn the lessons of the past. We need to make sure that going forward

that, you know, we did not make the mistake of thinking, for instance, that you could deport your way to the negotiating table with Mitch McConnell and

the Republicans, because that's not going to happen.

I think the vice president has said it right, which is that, you know, perhaps took too long to get it right. But toward the end of the Obama

administration, for instance, it instituted something called the Family Case Management Program, which instead of separate families, instead, you

know, incarcerating them, you let them stay together. And through actively engaging with them, ensure that people would show up for their court

appointments, you know, that they kept in the court system that they're supposed to be in, that that's a humane way to do it and that's also an

effective way to do it.

What you see with Donald Trump in contrast is somebody who has a dark heart when it comes to immigrants. Somebody that has used that as a political

pinata to juice up a base and get elected. And I think if you connect this with his comments about the Proud Boys and his comments at the

Charlottesville, I really believe that, at based, he is a racist.

ISAACSON: Wow. You just said he was a dark hearted and a racist. You've also called him cruel. I mean, are people going too far in political

rhetoric?

CASTRO: Oh, I don't think so. I mean, look at the news just a couple of weeks ago out of an ice facility in Georgia where a whistleblower has put

forth allegations -- and these are just the latest ones, that women were being subjected to hysterectomies and other procedures that they didn't

need, these were detained migrant women. Also, all of the children that were separated from their parents. I remember that audiotape of the young

girl, for instance, from two years ago, crying out for her family.

You know, time after time, Donald Trump could have put an end to that. Not only did he not stop it, he enhanced it. And to me that's the mark of a

cruel man.

ISAACSON: The top administration recently rescinded an Obama (INAUDIBLE) housing rules, something you were involved with.

[14:30:00]

What's your reaction to that?

CASTRO: It's a shame that this president wants to take this backward.

The Fair Housing Act was passed in 1968 by Lyndon Johnson right after the passing of Martin Luther King. And, in 2015, the Obama administration put

forward a rule called affirmatively furthering fair housing that was unfinished piece of business from the Fair Housing Act that told cities,

counties, housing authorities getting money from -- taxpayer money from HUD, you have to get serious about making sure that there's fair housing

opportunity in your jurisdiction.

The president has taken that. He has smeared it. He's lied about it, mischaracterized it, and tried to drum up white fear in the suburbs by

suggesting that people of color are going to suddenly move into your suburb.

It's a lie in different ways. First of all, suburbs are more integrated today than they were in 1968. So, people understand each other. They are

living together more than they were back then.

Secondly, he's lying about the policy. The policy did not dictate to suburbs or any other communities exactly what they had to do to achieve

better fair housing. And then, thirdly, I think that he's selling the vast majority of white Americans short.

I don't think that the vast majority of white Americans are sitting at home trying to figure out how they can keep people of color and black Americans

out of their neighborhood. I mean, he really is a throwback.

And he's trying to take all of us back to 50 years ago or longer.

ISAACSON: Trump seems to be doing well with Latino voters, especially Cuban Americans in Florida and some other places.

What do you think that Biden should be doing? And why do you think that's happened?

CASTRO: Well, I mean, look, it's true that Vice President Biden is not yet where the campaign wants to be with Latinos. It's a few points off. He's a

few points off from where Hillary Clinton was.

I did see some encouraging news a couple of days ago. There was a Univision poll that had him at 66 for Biden, 25 for Trump, with the rest undecided.

That's within striking distance by the time we get to November 3 to have a good showing for Biden.

But what the campaign needs to do -- and I think they get this -- is, they need a full-court press. And they need to do it in a nuanced way that

recognizes the diversity within the Latino community, Cuban Americans, Puerto Ricans, Mexican Americans in these states like Arizona and Nevada

and here in Texas that has become a swing state.

And I think they're -- they have begun to push a lot. And so I expect that, as people get into early voting, and we go to Election Day, that he's going

to do well.

ISAACSON: Latinos are three times as likely to be infected by coronavirus as Caucasian Americans, and they're twice as likely to die from the

disease.

What's at the core of these inequities? And what do we do about it?

CASTRO: As many people have pointed out, the COVID-19 has laid bare so many of the inequities in our society. With regard to Latinos, it's true

that the Latino community has a higher death rate, higher hospitalization rate, higher infection rate.

Part of that is because of what they do. They're working in many of these essential jobs, whether it's farmworkers in the fields, people in

meatpacking plants, grocery store workers, fast food workers, health care workers.

And so they're exposed more to this, but it's also lack of good health care access, right? I bet that, if you look at the analysis, for many lower-

income individuals, including a lot of Latinos and African-Americans, probably taking them longer to get to a doctor once they start showing the

symptoms of this.

The quality of the care they're probably receiving in medical institutions is less. And, also, people have pointed out you have intergenerational

households in the Latino community.

But, mostly, I think it's driven by these inequities that we see out there.

ISAACSON: Your stepmother passed away this summer from COVID. Condolences on that. And I think your father also had COVID and has recovered.

How do those experiences affect the way you view the handling of this crisis?

CASTRO: It just drives home how serious everybody should take the coronavirus.

[14:35:00]

And, also, I just -- just feel like it didn't have to be like that. And, also to see the numbers, over 200,000 people that have died in our country.

And when you compare the United States to countries around the world, we're almost the worst in terms of how we have handled this.

Just a couple of days ago, we passed the one million, one millionth person who passed away from COVID. And more than 200,000 of those are from the

United States. We make up more than 20 percent now of the world's dead from COVID-19.

And we're far less than that in terms of world's population. When did that happen? When did we become a country that was lagging and that was

inadequate? I mean, for a long time, our country was always the one that was best in science, that was known as the smart country, as the leading

country, as the country that people would hunker down and work together to get something done.

And I'm not putting all of the blame that at one person's footsteps, but Donald Trump has been totally incompetent when it comes to this. And he's

made us more polarized, which is going to -- which is hurting our country already and is going to take longer than just one election to actually put

back together.

And so, every day that he's in office, whether it's regard to COVID-19, or any -- our economy, any other thing we're talking about, it's just making

it harder and harder, and it's like adding greater speed of wind to your headwind. It's going to take longer to get over it.

ISAACSON: Does Vice President Biden have a challenge ahead of him in explaining why and how he would expand Obamacare?

CASTRO: Well, look, I mean, we saw a decade ago that any time you make fundamental changes to our health care system, that's going to both be a

big fight, and it takes a lot of explaining.

All of us remember the 1994 attempt to get to universal health care. And one of the challenges there was that the -- there wasn't the kind of

explanation that Americans needed, or at least fell short.

And I have no doubt that you're going to have your interests, corporate interests, as well as Republicans, who will do everything that they can to

try and stop more people getting good health care. They have already done that in states like Texas, my home state, where they won't even expand

Medicaid, even though it would hardly cost the state anything.

So, Joe Biden and the Congress, Democratic Congress, will have a real task on their hands to make sure that the groundwork is there, that the American

people are fully informed of what this is going to mean.

And if you have that solid base, that foundation, then you can get changes made, like we did with the Affordable Care Act.

ISAACSON: With many people questioning the science behind climate change, how difficult will be for a President Biden to make any progress on that?

CASTRO: I feel confident that Joe Biden's going to be able to make good progress on climate change.

We have seen, just in the last few months, these wildfires in California. We have seen, over the last few years, these storms increasing their

intensity and their frequency.

I actually believe the American people, based on what I have seen out there in my travels around the country over the last six years to more than 40

states, more than 100 different communities, that the time is right and things are ripe for combating climate change.

And I think that's especially true with the youngest Americans. I don't think it's even a question for the vast majority of young Americans. That's

also reason that young Americans need to go out and vote in November.

ISAACSON: Secretary Julian Castro, thank you so much for being with us this evening.

CASTRO: Thanks a lot.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And, of course, young Republicans also believe that something has to be done about manmade climate change.

Too hot, jarring, exhausting, those are some of the words several Republicans have used to describe Tuesday's debate, with pointed criticism

of their candidate.

But just what does the Trump inner circle make of it?

Chris Ruddy is the CEO of Newsmax Media. And he's known the president for two decades. He's joining me now from New York.

Chris Ruddy, welcome to the program. Nice to see you again.

And I just wonder what you made of that debate and what you would say to the president the next time you clap eyes on him.

CHRISTOPHER RUDDY, CEO, NEWSMAX: Christiane, great being on with you.

I think I wasn't really surprised by the president's performance, and those people that know him. I mean, he's sort of authentic to himself. I don't

think he would be surprised by my response, which was, I probably would have -- I haven't spoken to him since the debate -- advised him to be a

little more outreaching.

[14:40:10]

The polls show there's maybe 4 to 6 percent of the population, or the voting population, that's undecided at this point. It's a very small group.

He probably needs to win about 65 percent of those folks to win this election.

And I think, by being so combative, and even though he's justified at points -- Chris Wallace, I think, definitely sided with Biden. A lot of

conservatives feel that way. But Joe Biden has had an exemplary career in public service. He was a vice president of the United States. I think some

deference could have been shown, a little more deference on him.

And you know what? The missed opportunity was, this president has a tremendous track record on so many issues. I could go through them all, but

I'm not going to, but veterans and dealing with North Korea and Iran, the peace agreement that he did, all those foreign policy things, but also

domestically, the best economy.

A lot of that got lost in all the verbal combat.

AMANPOUR: Right. Well, yes, I mean, exactly.

There was real verbal combat. You have heard Chris Wallace say that he felt it was a missed opportunity. He had never been through anything like that

in his life.

Interesting you say that conservatives thought he was pro-Biden or favored Biden more. I don't think many people certainly on the other side thought,

that he was trying very hard to be a moderator. And, of course, he's from reliable FOX Trump country, which is FOX News.

RUDDY: I think there were times where Joe Biden was sort of floating off or wasn't responding, and Chris threw a lifeline to him by moving quickly

to Trump, moving the agenda back. I think there were some things there that -- it's widely perceived.

But, look, this president could have done a lot better, I believe, I think he is a master communicator. I think he's the greatest communicator we had,

even greater than Reagan. Just, he single-handedly has really dominated the media cycle now for four or five years. He will continue to do so.

So...

AMANPOUR: Well...

RUDDY: But I think this was a missed opportunity in terms of him telling his track record, which I think, at the end of the day, is what those

independent voters -- nobody's -- you don't have to love Donald Trump. I don't agree with everything he does. I don't agree with every approach.

I didn't think every response he gave was appropriate. But I do think that he is the better president going forward for the future of the country.

And I think you saw that. Joe Biden...

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: Sorry. Sorry.

RUDDY: Sure. Sure.

AMANPOUR: I know what you're saying, but I need to ask you about a few of the issues.

One of the groups that he needs, and even the Republican strategists are saying, as I was talking to Gloria Steinem about, that he needs women, the

same women who put him over the top in 2016. And that is very much not a given, so to speak, at this time.

And I just want to quote from some Republicans. Now, granted, Sarah Longwell is from the Republican Voters Against Trump, but she spoke and

speaks to Trump supporters, particularly those who supported him and voted for him in 2016, saying -- she said: "Trump's performance in last night's

debate did nothing to win this group back," women, "and caused some of the previously undecided women to close the door on Trump for good."

And one of the voters she spoke to says: "It seemed like Trump was steamrolling him and bullying him. I felt so bad for Biden, that Trump was

treating him that way. Joe didn't get a fair shot. We didn't get to hear what he thinks about things."

So, Chris Ruddy, you may disagree, but I want you to...

RUDDY: Right.

AMANPOUR: I want you to tell me...

RUDDY: Well, I don't completely disagree.

AMANPOUR: ... what does Trump need to do get women back?

Oh, OK.

RUDDY: I don't do -- I don't -- I started off by saying, Christiane, that I felt he needed to reach out to independent voters. And that includes

women. I do think he needs some -- to bridge some things there.

But Trump was Trump. He really wasn't that surprising, really. We have seen the press conferences. He can be very combative at times. He loves being

authentic to himself, being real. And I think where he needs to pivot is say to these independent voters and these women, here's the things I have

delivered for your family, for your kids, for the future of America, for all our families, and the homeowners, and the protection and security of

the country.

And that's where I think the missed opportunity was...

AMANPOUR: OK.

RUDDY: ... because, in all the verbal jabbing, we just see somebody that's fighting.

And I think Biden came across fairly weak and not as strong. And the Quinnipiac poll did a study. They asked what the president's strongest

attributes were. This was earlier in the administration. And the public said, 63 percent of that time, that he was a strong president.

So I do think there is a certain point that resonates, especially in a time of crisis, where we're having massive civil unrest. The economy is in

freefall with the coronavirus. So I think people do want strong leadership.

So there is a selling point that the president can make on that, even though he might not appeal or please everyone that's watching.

[14:45:03]

AMANPOUR: So, you say Trump was Trump, but many point out, particularly Trumpologists, so to speak -- and there are many reporters of that ilk --

who remind that, actually, his debate performances in 2015 and 2016 were what brought people and what kind of won him the nomination and the

election.

He was a completely different kind of Trump than we saw in the -- I mean, still blustery, still dominant and all the rest of it, but very different

to the sort of what some people are saying was kind of aggressive, bullying, somewhat desperate overnight.

But you talk about issues. And you saw it. You said civil unrest. There is civil unrest. There's also the uprising for racial justice. Some of the

civil unrest is caused by these very far right groups, by militias who are armed.

And President Trump was asked specifically whether he would denounce white supremacists. And this is the -- this is sort of what went on, and then we

will talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I really enjoyed last night's debate with sleepy Joe. Last night, I did what the corrupt media

has refused to do. I held Joe Biden accountable for his 47 years of lies, 47 years of the betrayal, and 47 years of failure.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: I held Joe accountable for shipping your jobs and dreams abroad and for bowing to the violent mob at home. Can you imagine these people, the

way they take over these Democrat cities?

I don't even believe it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: OK, well, that's what he said. So we have President Trump saying what he said after the debate.

But, as you remember, in the debate, he said, stand by, stand back. He didn't tell these groups to cease and desist. And his spokesman today said

that he didn't misspeak, and he said what he said.

RUDDY: Well, Christiane...

AMANPOUR: Do you believe that he could be stronger -- I'm just asking you a question.

Do you believe that he should have been stronger in denouncing white -- violent white supremacy?

RUDDY: Well, I would say that he should have been clearer in that debate.

I think he has been pretty strong. He's made many, many statements denouncing white supremacist groups through the years.

AMANPOUR: No.

RUDDY: So, this has been...

AMANPOUR: No, he hasn't, really.

RUDDY: He has. And he -- I mean, we have had the largest -- I mean, the white supremacist thing is a problem, and a serious one. I don't want to

diminish it. But it's not leading to the destruction of cities, the mass looting of cities, the closure of cities, the occupation of cities that we

have seen with the unrest from the far left, from the anti-Trump people.

So, I think, in comparison, it's a serious problem that we should be talking about, where's Joe Biden saying that he's going to come in and

restore law and order in the cities and public safety? I'm not hearing that from the Democrats.

Maybe the president should be clearer on this, and, certainly, in that debate, I think it was -- I think it was one of the shortcomings in the

debate, that he didn't make it clearer. I don't know where that Proud Boys thing comes from.

AMANPOUR: Yes, me neither, all these names that now we're giving so much - - and they're loving it, because they're getting all the attention that they want.

The president tends to equivocate on these issues. And Biden has said that he believes in law and order and does not believe in violent protests.

But I want to ask you one other thing which is troubling to a lot of people. There -- and we have got literally one minute left.

Do you think it's right for the president to keep casting doubt on whether he will accept the November election result, calling it fraudulent, which

he did over and over again? I know he wants to win, but is it at the cost of pulling down people's faith in American democracy and the election?

RUDDY: I think he should say that, if it's a fair election -- and there's 50 state elections, right? He should say that he will accept the result, as

long as it's a fair -- if there are court cases under way where the election was challenged, we know that Al Gore, for instance, challenged,

and that kept that election going well over a month before the Supreme Court decided in December.

So I think there is a right of either Biden or Trump to challenge the results of the individual states. But I think the president should go a

little step beyond that and say that he wants to have a peaceful transition.

There's no doubt in my mind, by the way, there's going to be a peaceful transition of power. I do think the president enjoys -- you mentioned the

word Trumpologists.

Having known this man for so long, I think he does enjoy tweaking you folks in the media by not admitting...

AMANPOUR: Yes, but the thing is, it's not us folks, sir. It's not just us folks.

It's his backers who are openly questioning now whether there can be a fair election, in a country where there is no evidence of fraud in mail ballots

or the like.

So, anyway, I have to leave it here. I want to have you back.

Please tell your president to speak up American democracy, and not to talk it down. And that will be for the good of everybody.

RUDDY: He's your president too. He's your president too.

[14:50:01]

AMANPOUR: I'm not American.

(LAUGHTER)

RUDDY: He's all our president.

AMANPOUR: I'm not American. I can't vote.

RUDDY: He's still all our president. He's still all our president.

AMANPOUR: He's your president.

Thank you so much, Chris Ruddy.

And, finally, Black History Month begins in the U.K. today. Booker Prize- winning author Bernardine Evaristo is taking over my Instagram account for the day, just one of many such pairings in a Share the Mic campaign to

amplify black female voices.

Google U.K. is honoring the British writer, composer and abolitionist Ignatius Sancho on his -- on its home page. He was born on a slave ship,

and he went on to become the first person of African descent to vote in a U.K. general election.

Well, Misan Harriman recently made history as well as the first black male photographer to shoot the cover of British "Vogue." His picture "Why Is

Ending Racism a Debate?" has become a defining image in the Black Lives Matter protests here in the U.K.

And he's joining me now from Sotheby's auction house also here in London.

Misan Harriman, good to have you back.

Your picture is behind you. We can see the slogan which has become a rallying cry. But why are you at Sotheby's? What's happening? Are you are

you -- what are you doing?

MISAN HARRIMAN, PHOTOGRAPHER: Well, the image that you're talking about has been my first print that is going on the photographs auction from the

11th of October to the 14th, with the hope of raising money for the Anthony Nolan charity.

AMANPOUR: That's an amazing honor, really.

HARRIMAN: Yes.

AMANPOUR: It is remarkable. It's a first for you. And it's a first in this regard.

So, tell me what that charity is.

HARRIMAN: So, Anthony Nolan really is specifically for the blood cancer needs and research, so stem cell matches.

And, quite simply, if you do not have a diverse enough bank of stem cell matches, people that have leukemia and other blood cancers, it is a

difference between life and death.

So, knowing that, I wanted to offer my first print with Sotheby's to see if we can raise the funds to make a difference.

AMANPOUR: And specifically to diversify stem cell donor register for black and other ethnic minority people, which I think -- who knew that there was

a real major issue in that regard? So that's why it's amazing as well.

Tell me about -- you saw that placard, the woman carrying that placard with that statement. What about it grabbed you?

HARRIMAN: I think the question itself asks all of us to take a bird's-eye view on why we haven't asked that question sooner, and, also, perversely,

why we need to still ask that question.

Darcy Bourne, the lady holding the sign, who is an elite athlete and a hockey player for England, who's just started at Duke University, was

holding that sign. The paint was still drying, as you can see in the image. And our paths crossed, and history was made.

It has an emotional reaction, where people really think about how they can make sure we never need to ask that question in the future.

AMANPOUR: And, personally, you're making all sorts of history with your photography and where you are this moment in this uprising for racial

justice.

What do you think now, several months after it began? And I guess, what do you think about there being one Black History Month per year?

HARRIMAN: Well, I think, like Pride and many of these months that happen, I live it. And I think this is to remind people that don't have that lived

experience that they should have empathy in their hearts to think outside of who they are.

So, I don't think Black History Month necessarily has been looked at by people that are non-black in the way that it's beginning to be done now.

And that's important, because if you live the experience, like me and other people that look like me, we know what we have been through. We know what

our open wounds are.

But Black History Month is for others to also learn about our lived experience, so they can understand how they can help fight, eradicate

racism.

AMANPOUR: And do you think that these last few months have really cemented that? Do you think, from everything you're seeing, people you're talking

to, that there has been some change in this imbalance?

HARRIMAN: Oh. Oh, yes. I mean, there's no going back.

My parents and their parents' generation never had that collective voice. It was always a whisper, because this thing that we all live with called

the Internet wasn't there.

Now we know that there are millions of people from all walks of life and from all races that are coming together to make sure that the ills of our

past will not be repeated in the future. And by doing that, we are trying to fix our present.

[14:55:10]

And, without question, I am seeing that in every aspect of my daily life, whether it's the children I'm mentoring, whether it is my friends that are

taking time to understand the history of the prison industrial complex, or in how the civil justice system has been skewed the wrong way.

That is happening at a scale that I have never seen before in my lifetime.

AMANPOUR: The prison industrial complex is something we really must remember and highlight and try to fight against me.

Misan Harriman, thank you so much, indeed. And congratulations.

And that's it for now. Thank you for watching, and goodbye from London.

We want to leave you with this beautiful picture, a red mailbox painted black for black pride, Black History Month.

END