Return to Transcripts main page
CUOMO PRIME TIME
Biden Names Ron Klain As His White House Chief Of Staff; State Department Blocks Biden From Seeing World Leaders' Messages; U.S. COVID-19 Cases Top 140,000, Record High For Daily Count. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 11, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Randi Kaye, CNN, West Palm Beach, Florida.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME."
Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right, thank you very much, Anderson.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
Happy Veterans Day, to the men and women who serve now, and who did serve, and to the families, the husbands and wives, worrying at home, the kids with missed memories, the brothers and sisters and loved ones, wondering when those, who risk it all for us, to have it all, will be home. Thank you to each and all of you. We appreciate, certainly I appreciate, your service.
And may we take the message of this day, the ideal of putting nation before self, even committing to the ultimate sacrifice more to heart. Yes, I'm politicizing it. And I'm looking at you, GOP-enablers, and you know why.
Veterans Day came from Armistice Day, Eisenhower renamed it. Armistice Day was when both sides laid down arms in World War I. The date was to mark the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, in 1918, when it ended.
Well, it is the 11th hour now after this election. And these GOP cronies know it is over. Shame on you, for allowing crazy, to, become contagious as COVID, in your ranks.
Why do you think Trump is ousting Pentagon leadership and loading up with loyalists - loyal - loyalists? Maybe it's for troop withdrawal. Maybe it's to get Russian information released. And maybe it is because he is twisted enough to try to do something way worse. Remember who said nothing. Remember their shame.
The President-Elect, Biden, he's doing what he can. He's meeting, planning to take on the pandemic, you know, the one where all the numbers are now in crazy scary territory, and Trump hasn't even mentioned it. Does it sound like someone his Party should placate?
Not we hear, not only is this Administration denying security briefings, to the President-Elect, but they're blocking Biden from receiving a stack of messages from foreign leaders. Again, this goes way beyond Trump.
Trump is toxic. Surprise! However, the real surprise is the blame that must be put on those who ignore and, therefore, empower. And those who say, "This should just run its course," running its course means transition, and they know it.
I'm telling you. Remember the people who are enabling this fraud. They must answer for defending Trump's delusions. They are remaining silent when it matters most.
Most Republicans in Washington, did you know, they won't even say "President-Elect Biden" in public. You know who else is doing that? Vladimir Putin, President Xi and Kim Jong-un. Great company!
The best they can be apparently is Senator Lankford from Oklahoma, this guy. He sits on the Homeland Security Committee. Now, he won't call Biden "President-Elect" either. He does say, though, he should get the daily security brief. Can you believe that's the best in their ranks?
Even Karl Rove, remember him, he penned an Op-Ed saying "This is over." Karl Rove! You know how toxically partisan you have to be for Karl Rove to be more fair to Democrats than you?
And remember, the shame is that this is a game for them. They have no proof. You've heard them list no proof.
Over on State TV, they have a list of potential bad votes. Nothing that comes close to changing the results, and they know it. And we know they know. How? Because they held the exact opposite position when they won an election.
CNN's KFILE found the ugly truth. Feast on this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: You have people out there calling for recounts that are unsubstantiated based on no evidence.
This was a legitimate election, and no one should question the fact that Donald Trump is the President-Elect.
MERCEDES SCHLAPP, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: It's a fascinating group of these Democrats who can't seem to realize that it is time to move on. It is time to accept the fact that Trump will be the next President of the United States.
MATT SCHLAPP, CHAIRMAN, AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION: Hillary is on her sore loser tour. And now we have her going through recounts. You know what she needs to do? She needs to get over it. She lost. LOUIS DOBBS, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK ANCHOR, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Yes.
MATT SCHLAPP: Get out of the way, and let Donald Trump be President.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think the Democrats are sore losers?
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST, "HANNITY": Yes, I do.
RUDY GIULIANI, (R) FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: The reality is they're a bunch of spoiled crybabies.
JASON MILLER, SENIOR ADVISER TO THE TRUMP 2020 RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN: News flash for many of the partisan Democrats and those in the mainstream media who continue to try to delegitimize President-Elect Trump's massive and historic win last month, the election's over. Hillary Clinton lost.
[21:05:00]
You have to win 270 electoral votes to be elected president, and President-Elect Trump actually got 306. This is all really just an effort to try to delegitimize the win.
KELLYANNE CONWAY, FORMER COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: The Left's going to lie.
HANNITY: They're going to go nuts.
CONWAY: The Left's going to be smirched. They're going to go crazy.
HANNITY: They're going nuts now.
CONWAY: They can't accept the election results, let alone the fact that he's actually going to solve problems.
They have to decide whether they're going to interfere with him, finishing his business--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
CONWAY: --interfere with a peaceful transition - transfer of power to President-Elect Trump and Vice President-Elect Pence, or if they're going to be a bunch of crybabies and sore losers about an election that they can't turn around.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP: This is America. We live in a democracy. Everybody, when they woke up in the morning, that's registered to vote, could go choose. So how about respecting the majority that also live here and their votes should count?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CUOMO: OK? Shame on them! A wax museum is less cold-blooded than these people are. And let them know they are going to lose way more than this election.
This, matters. What they're playing at now, matters. This isn't "Tax, don't tax." This isn't "Who lies? Who doesn't lie?" This is what lies at the heart of our democracy, and they know it.
Hillary Clinton, say what you want, she promptly conceded even though she spanked him in the popular vote. Why? That's what our system demands. Other Democrats swiftly came to terms with Trump's victory. Proof.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our President. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead.
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, I have instructed my team to follow the example that President Bush's team set eight years ago, and work as hard as we can to make sure that this is a successful transition for the President-Elect.
JOHN KERRY, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I want to offer my congratulations to President-Elect Donald Trump, and wish him well for the American people.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We of course are all very disappointed - more than disappointed. Hard to accept the results, but accept we do. The peaceful transfer of power - power is what America and our democracy is about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: 77 million-plus and counting delivered a spanking to Trump by voting for Joe Biden. We have never seen a number like it.
"What about the 70 million who voted for Trump? What about them?" What about respecting their role in the democracy by honoring the democracy yourself? They came out and voted. They played the game the right way.
And, again, let's put up some of the vote boards in the key races to show how this is not a squeaker. This is not about finding a few ballots or even a few hundred. And that's all recounts generally change. Karl Rove said that too in his Op-Ed.
Wisconsin, Biden is up more than 20,000. Pennsylvania, he's up more than 50,000.
In Georgia, he's up more than 14,000. The State announced today it will be holding a full recount, and that should deliver confidence in the outcome.
Nobody is saying "No recounts" where they meet the standard. Nobody is staying "Don't certify." We're saying don't lie about having proof of some kind of perfidy when it doesn't exist because that is enabling a fraud, and you know it. In Nevada, Biden leads now by more than 36,000. In Michigan, Clinton
lost to Trump there by under 11,000. She didn't fight it. Trump is suing to stop Michigan from certifying the count? He's down by 146,000.
Now, just as gross, you know where Trump didn't want to stop the count? Alaska. Why? CNN just called the race for him today. They have been counting absentee mail-in votes for over a week. Why is that OK? Because he won.
Again, this is not about Trump. As I said, he is a revenant, at this point. He is a dead man walking because he's not even vital enough to deal with the crisis that is overwhelming this country. He doesn't even talk about the numbers, only himself, that's who he is. It is what it is. And it's ugly, and it's always been.
He's always lied when he sees a loss. Proof? OK.
Romney lost to Obama in 2012, Trump, "Total sham!"
2016, primary season, Ted Cruz beats him in the Iowa Caucus, what does he say? "He didn't win. He stole it."
2016, he loses, right? What does he say? "Rigged!"
Even after he won, he ordered a Commission. Why? "I only lost the popular vote because 2 million, 4 million, 6 million" because the numbers are all the same to him, right, just like his net worth, "they were all fraudulent."
He puts together this Commission headed up by his boy, Kobach. You know what they find? Nothing! They had to remove the Commission. Do you know how rare that is?
[21:10:00]
He cried fraud all through the 2018 midterms, claiming people were voting illegally, multiple times, by changing clothes. Proof? Crickets!
And let's not forget one thing. Trump was impeached, and remember why, shaking down, a foreign power, to help him fix this election, and take down Biden.
He is a liar and a cheat. But he always has been. He is not the real problem. He can't do this alone. It's the cronies inside and the craven in Congress. That's why this continues and continues to hamper our fight against COVID.
Again, Trump hasn't even told you about the latest numbers, and he is doing nothing. And they are stalling the rightful transfer of power to a group that will do something.
And remember, none has provided you any proof to justify this malignant malfeasance. They must all be held to account for what they are enabling right now. Never forget! So, what is the state of play with this perfidy? What is Biden able to
do? How bad for how long?
Dana Bash, David Gregory, join us now. Thank you for your patience.
Dana, what is the latest word in terms of how long the GOP will prop- up this perfidy?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: There is no time. There is no date. There is no specific marker that they're looking for. It's kind of "They'll know it when they see it," which is certainly not an answer.
CUOMO: Like porn?
BASH: Kind of. That Supreme Court case, kind of like that, yes. It's a different kind, but yes, I know exactly what you are saying.
So, they are doing a couple of things. They are allowing these court cases, which even people close to the President call "Frivolous." They're allowing them to run their course, in order to try to show the President this is a dead-end path, the courts.
And another date that we're looking at is December 8th when, by law, all of the states have to have certified their electoral - their electors, and certified the election. And, so, those are two things that we're looking at. But who knows?
I mean, as you just described, and as we know, because we've been covering Donald Trump as a politician, for five years, we know to expect the unexpected, and why these Republicans who are just saying "Let it run its course" think that there will be an epiphany at some point is unclear.
CUOMO: Why doesn't proof factor into it, David? Ordinarily, this would make sense.
You know, 2000, that was an ugly period. We had bad machines down there. There was a recount necessary. Went through the courts, went to the Supreme Court, we all know the story.
There is no there, there here. And yet, they argue vehemently that it has to run its course based on what theory?
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, AUTHOR, "HOW'S YOUR FAITH?": That they're afraid of the President.
In a lot of these cases, you see members of president's party separate from him, when he becomes less popular. That's when they get the backbone to separate because they feel like they've got the political reason to do it.
Here, they don't sense that. The writing is more than on the wall. The evidence is clear. These legal avenues, you've laid it out, are not going to come to fruition. The vote totals are too big. The victory is too big for Biden. None of it is going to work. And yet, I think rank-and-file Republicans know, and certainly Republican leaders in Washington know that Trump is going to have some area of power, whether he threatens to run again, or just launches a television network, a news network, or just keeps tweeting.
He's going to keep dogging these Republicans. And they don't feel like he's significantly diminished yet for them to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue and say "It's over." It's just not the case yet. Nobody, we have - we've seen it for four years, nobody is willing to get out front of him.
CUOMO: Right.
GREGORY: Except a very small handful.
CUOMO: Dana, what do they make--
BASH: And can I--
CUOMO: Go ahead, but please wrap this in there as well. What do they make of what he's doing at the Pentagon?
BASH: That's the question that I have been trying to get the answer to all day.
For the most part, one of the answers that I get is, you know, this is just the President disliking Esper, who was the Defense Secretary, and that also goes with the people who - the political appointees, the civilian leadership who - that were under him.
[21:15:00]
The question obviously, because the place he decided to make moves, was at the Pentagon is, is there something dangerous going on because it's the Pentagon. The answer that I've gotten so far is "No," but it's not a - it's not a sure "No." It is a "No, I don't think so." So, people are watching.
But just to amplify what David was just saying, I talked to a source in the Trump orbit today, who said that the - what the President is saying internally is that he believes he holds all the cards.
72 million Americans voted for him. Two Georgia seats are still going to be contested in a run-off on January 5th. And that determines whether or not Mitch McConnell is the Senate Majority Leader or the Senate Minority Leader.
And that is why - one of the big reasons why the Senate Republicans, in particular, feel that they - they're so intimidated, because if they make him mad, and they piss him off, then they're worried that he won't go and campaign for the Republicans, and they could lose the majority, because he will feel that there is no fealty to him.
CUOMO: Strong point! Strong point! It makes sense, and that's what I've heard as well. But what an ugly calculation! David, the idea of what this means for Biden, he announced Ron Klain
as his Chief of Staff today. He's got an interesting line in his pedigree, having been the Head of the Ebola - he was the Ebola Czar, so that gives him a little acumen in this area. Some names are bubbling up.
But not getting any messages from foreign leaders, are there other avenues for that? Not getting the security briefing, are there other avenues for that?
GREGORY: I think for the time being, he's fine. Remember, this is the former Vice President who was just there four years ago. Ron Klain has been in government for a long time. He is one of the wise men of Democratic politics.
And the point about the Ebola Czar is really important because not only is he a fantastic guy for one thing, but a loyalist to Biden. But because of that particular experience with Ebola, he's going to mobilize very quickly for the Administration to respond to COVID.
And just as the financial crisis was what Obama faced, coming into office here, this is the number one crisis that Biden faces. And that to me is the biggest cost of this particular period is that you just have inaction.
You said it at the top. The President is not talking about this horrible spike in cases, and the crisis that is redeveloping.
You have a government in waiting in transition that is doing this work, but is being cutoff because right now there is no cooperation with the Administration. Imagine if they put their forces together, what they might be able to accomplish?
CUOMO: David, Dana, you guys are like the Super Twins. This is really great. Thank you so much. No, such perspective, and insight, this is great. Thank you for my audience. I appreciate it.
GREGORY: Pleasure to be here.
BASH: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: All right look, again, the marriage of this, OK, they have no proof to delay the transition. They have offered you none. And they are sleeping on all this proof that COVID is worse than we've seen it. I mean, it's not just hurting us at home. It is impacting us around the world. And that's got to count at some point.
Madeleine Albright can give us the skinny on that. The former Secretary of State is here. What does she make of what's happening here, Mike Pompeo, one of her successors, the joke that he made that he said wasn't a joke.
Let's get some perspective from someone who knows the stakes, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: We're all spending a lot of time like this now, right? Like seriously? I thought it was over, right? Just wonder, bizarre sense of wonder, and growing anxiety on top of the anxiety.
New tonight, the State Department is actively preventing the President-Elect from seeing messages from foreign leaders. Yet, those same leaders are going around the Trump Administration.
Great perspective, from Canada, to Germany, the U.K., Turkey, Saudi Arabia, they're finding a way to congratulate Biden on his victory.
It's also telling who hasn't, Putin, Xi and Kim. The only company that they are able to keep right now is the host of GOP Congress Members who are basically acting the same way.
Does it matter? What does it mean, short-term, long-term? Is this real? Is my angst justified?
Former Secretary of State and U.N. Ambassador and easy Cuomo critic, Madeleine Albright, joins us.
Madam Secretary, welcome, once again, to PRIME TIME. Now, before we begin, congratulations to you. 72 years ago today, you came to America. What a beautiful addition! You are part of what the Dream is all about.
MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE UNDER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, Chris, it's great to be with you.
And I am a grateful American for this country having given my family a place to be when Communists had taken over Czechoslovakia, and before that we had spent the war in London. So, I really - we were - I was 11-years-old, and I was very grateful.
And I'm wearing the Statue of Liberty because recently the Statue of Liberty was weeping and now she is smiling again. The way it looked when we arrived on the "SS America" in New York.
CUOMO: Why is she smiling when we have a non-transition, changes at the Pentagon, a disregarding of an election and an entire political party standing by and saying nothing?
ALBRIGHT: Because she's patient. And I do think that this particular moment, which is truly ridiculous, and I heard what you were talking about before, and very troubling, but I think that our patience is going to be very helpful.
[21:25:00]
And we have a great future with President-Elect Biden and Vice President-Elect Kamala Harris. And I think that it's going to make a difference.
And I'm looking forward to it because some of the absolutely ridiculous things that are going on now will be put behind us and our allies and friends will regain trust in this country, which was lost in the last four years.
CUOMO: Again, not to put a pin in the bubble of this commemorative day of you being here, and of the sanguine outlook, which ordinarily would be appreciated, but where does your confidence come from with Trump saying "I'm going to win" and all these Senators and Members of Congress with no proof, Madeleine, not a single piece other than the customary things you see about "Perhaps bad ballots. Maybe people stole people's identities" we see these things in elections, but nothing of the standard they would need to overturn an election, and yet they're all saying "Let it go."
ALBRIGHT: Well, I have to say I'm totally appalled, obviously by the behavior of Trump, but also by members of his Party, who are not objecting to the kinds of things that are going on, elected officials, who should not be terrified of any payback that would come from Trump.
But I really am surprised. I believe in bipartisanship. I want to see them doing something, and being really honorable, in terms of their own constituencies. And so, I am deeply troubled.
By the way, I'm often asked if I'm an optimist or a pessimist. I'm an optimist who does worry a lot. So, I am worried.
But I prefer to be able to look at this, as a way, where we will sort our way out of it, because we have very, very good people that are ready to come in, and run a government that has been chaotic, and without purpose, except for the glorification of a President that is only interested in his own legacy.
So, we have an awful lot to get over, and I'm looking forward to the time when the transition can really take place, and we will have a government that is reflective of America's potential and greatness and our understanding of democracy.
CUOMO: Two more quick things.
One, what's your sense of time until when the transition takes place? And how much time we have before it starts to disrupt relations abroad?
ALBRIGHT: Well, I do think you've gone through a number of dates that have to happen. And I think we will go through that. But I think it's very important for us to really, I hope that our
friends and allies really are listening to those people that are talking about "We'll get over this." Our democracy is resilient. Democracy knows how to correct itself.
And I do think that it is important for them to understand that we will get through this, but it's not simple. There is just - I'm not going to sugarcoat it. I think that there are very serious bad things going on, in terms of the example that we set in the world.
By the way, Chris, we have been AWOL for the last four years. We have not been present at the meetings that are important. We have a President who only has his own agenda.
So, there is going to be an awful lot of work to restore America's reputation, and to make us very active partners in a world that really needs to have America as a - as a reasonable, rational partner.
CUOMO: Any risk that people abroad say, "This Biden, he doesn't even have support at home. I'm not dealing with him."
ALBRIGHT: I don't think that will happen. I really don't. Because I think - first of all, they know Biden. I mean that is the incredible part. He - I have known him a very long time.
He is somebody that has deep relations with countries all over the world, with the leaders. They know him. They also will know, I think, a lot of the people that will be in the Administration, and I do think that things can be restored because we have to get this done.
And, by the way, you were talking about transitions. I have been transitioned into, and I have done the transitioning. The latter is more fun, but it is a very interesting period in turning over the Crown Jewel. So there has to be a process that is orderly and important.
And, by the way, from my understanding is the Trump people didn't know how to use the transition going in. So, that is the problem.
And so, it is not going to be an easy transition, in terms of picking up the pieces and knowing - and the Intelligence briefings have to begin. People need to begin to take their places. So, I'm not going to, as I said, sugarcoat this. There are many things to do.
[21:30:00]
And the calendar, as you have described, it, there are certain dates that have to happen. And I do think that it's very important to try to show the patience and peace and patriotism and to really get through this very, very troubling period.
CUOMO: Pompeo is setting a low bar as Secretary of State, not just with his bad call on what to say, undermining the election. But he doesn't really have a lot of achievements to his name.
Who would you like to see as Secretary of State? ALBRIGHT: Well any number of people. I think there are an awful lot of good candidates.
CUOMO: Come on, give me one.
ALBRIGHT: And people that will understand their job better--
CUOMO: Just one.
ALBRIGHT: --than Pompeo does, because Pompeo is more dedicated to Trump and the Party than to democracy and the United States.
CUOMO: Agreed. Give me one name.
ALBRIGHT: I'm not going to do that.
CUOMO: I knew it. And I always lose.
Secretary Madeleine Albright, thank you so much. 72 beautiful years in this country, you have been doing nothing but pay the country back for the opportunity it gave you and your family. Always a pleasure to see you, thank you for perspective on the moment. I never thought I'd be talking to you about this.
ALBRIGHT: Great to be with you, Chris.
CUOMO: But here we are.
ALBRIGHT: Terrific!
CUOMO: I'll talk to you again soon.
ALBRIGHT: Thank you.
CUOMO: God bless and be well.
ALBRIGHT: I hope. Thank you very much.
CUOMO: And look, what's the problem? The problem is this isn't just for fun. This isn't just political state of play.
States all over the country are starting to run out of hospital capacity. Remember, it's a lagging indicator. We started to see the cases spike. "Oh, but the hospitals are OK. What?" Yes, that comes next. Now we're there.
We're breaking records of the wrong kind. So, let's get together and figure out not just what you have to do but where the bad things are happening. That informs us what needs to be done.
There he is, the long-haired Dr. Sanjay Gupta next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Now, if you want proof that the wrong side is winning in a big contest, look at the war against COVID. We're seeing more new cases than ever. More than 140,000 people were infected just today. That's another single-day high. Not just a blip.
The ninth consecutive day we have seen more than 100,000 new cases. The more cases you get, you're going to add more than a million new cases each week, what do you think happens to the system, communities, families?
Why is this happening? Well, that partly is answered by looking at where it's happening. The worst of it right now is in the Midwest. But every region of the country is facing a surge to differing degrees and, again, for varying reasons.
For instance, Texas today became the first state to pass 1 million COVID cases. A dozen other states recorded their highest single day of new cases this week. What do you see there? Relaxing standards, a sense that you're past it.
Now testing, testing has increased. But the proportion of tests that come back positive is what matters. And that rate of positivity is increasing in most states. Look at the color key. Take a second. Look at it.
Trump lied when he said testing was the problem. "You go, you test more, you make more cases." No. The positivity rate is what matters.
The darkest states have positivity rates as high as 55 percent, all right? It's all shades of blue. You want to be in that light, light, light blue like you see over there in New Hampshire or Vermont.
More Americans are also being hospitalized for COVID than ever before. That takes care of the "Oh, they're just cases, but they don't get that sick." Now they're in the hospitals. It's a lagging indicator. 17 states reported record highs in hospitals, on Tuesday. What happens when they run out of capacity?
For the second day, we topped our hospitalization record with more than 65,000 people in hospital beds. Hospitals all over are at their breaking point.
In North Dakota, staffing shortages are so bad that the Governor is now allowing healthcare workers with active COVID infections to continue working as long as they are asymptomatic. Can you imagine all these months in?
More infections, more hospitalizations only means one thing. Eventually, you'll see more deaths. An average of nearly 1,000 lost each day. Yesterday, we had more than 1,400.
Can we continue to let this virus win when we know of ways to stop it? We can learn from our previous battles. But what? How? When?
The Chief Doctor, Sanjay Gupta, joins me now.
Good to see you, brother.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you.
CUOMO: Why do we look to where it is spreading for a more acute analysis of what that state, region or community needs to do differently?
GUPTA: Well, because, we don't have a national strategy, right? So every place, as a result, is different, has sort of had different guidelines. And we have to sort of look at what's specifically happening there.
These rural areas, South Dakota, for example, I think, you were referencing in one of those graphs, I think, for a while there, we thought these waves across the country were going to skip. They thought it was going to skip them essentially, and they weren't going to be as affected by it.
And now, as you point out, 55 percent positivity rates, which means that there's far, far more cases there than are ever being accounted for. They're just not - they're simply not catching them.
North Dakota, over there, they got 20 ICU beds to 25 ICU beds total for the state, OK? So what happens, Chris, in these situations, when people start having some of the worst symptoms here in those places? It becomes a real challenge.
[21:40:00]
It is true, younger people now, compared to before, are more likely to get infected. I mean, 50 percent roughly now are under the age of 50. Before it was 75 percent were over the age of 50.
But there's still, you know, a lot of infection out there, by the way, 18-year-olds to 29-year-olds now make up a quarter of infections, just that's another stat, you know, those are college students, a lot of them. So, just that's sort of what's happening across the country.
CUOMO: Mortality rate that is the last bastion for the denier. As a function of cases, the death rate is going down, so it doesn't really matter that we have these cases.
GUPTA: The death rate, I think, we have learned a lot about this virus. We know how to better care for patients who have the virus. There is certain therapeutics like Remdesivir, steroids. We know even that ventilators aren't always a good option for a lot of
these patients. Instead, putting them in a prone position, you remember Chris, may be a lot better, for people who are having difficulty breathing, as opposed to going to the ventilator.
And, as I mentioned, younger people are more likely to be getting infected now, compared to before, and they're less likely to get as sick.
The problem is, as you alluded to, again, the absolute numbers are so high. While the proportion may have come down, the absolute numbers are so high the expectation is we're going to be at 2,200 people, sadly, dying every day, starting near the end of January. We're going to hit 300,000 cases per day by the end of this year.
You talk about the hospitalizations. They think those numbers will double by February. So, it is a - the numbers are all going in the wrong direction. Even if the death proportion rate has come down, it's still unacceptably too high.
CUOMO: Do you buy the promise of a T-cell test? What is it? Why would it be a good thing? And do you think it's something we should jump on in terms of mass production?
GUPTA: Well I think someone like you might find this interesting, Chris, right, because everyone talks about the antibodies, which are these proteins that you measure in the blood, after someone has had the infection, to see if it's - they still have immunity.
We know those antibodies wane over time. But while we've seen reinfections, we haven't seen huge amounts of reinfections. If it truly waned, nine months into this, we'd be seeing a lot of reinfections by this point.
Seeing some, but not a lot, why? Probably these T-cells, which are these cells that are part of the immune system, they seem to be activated in response to this virus. So, they may be a good measure of immunity.
The problem is we don't know still how much immunity they actually confer, still got to figure that out. But they may end up being a better measure long-term versus antibodies.
CUOMO: Sanjay Gupta, and your luxurious locks, thank you so much for being with us, as always. I appreciate - listen.
GUPTA: I'm getting this cut now.
CUOMO: It--
GUPTA: Definitely - definitely getting it cut.
CUOMO: First of all, it's gorgeous.
GUPTA: I mean, you're mocking. CUOMO: Second of all, doesn't matter how bad the pandemic gets, I'll always have a sense of humor because it's the - it is the best medicine there is.
GUPTA: At my expense.
CUOMO: I'm - well, come on, everybody loves Sanjay. I'm just different by giving you some heat. Nobody gives Sanjay Gupta heat.
I'm on text threads with two different people now randomly, randomly, who are going through long-haul.
One of them just found, in a scan of her lungs that she doesn't have enough big blood vessels. She has a lot of small blood vessels, and it's robbing her of oxygenated blood. And therefore, she's short of breath.
The other one, nine months in, she just said goodbye to this support group online, and she's just now, very fit, very strong, just starting to resume activity.
Long-haul is real, even if you have a mild case. We have to stay on how this goes.
GUPTA: That's right.
CUOMO: And we got to keep smiling and loving each other. Sanjay, I love you and thank you.
GUPTA: I love you, Chris. Take care.
CUOMO: Because look, if we don't care enough about each other, we're not going to care about this is happening. I really believe it's a key ingredient that's missing here. We don't care enough about each other.
And how can you in this climate? Every signal you are getting is to hate somebody.
Trump's Pentagon purge, it's just another state of it, "Us and them, the enemy." Why? Because he wants to push to declassify sensitive Russia probe information? Is that what this is about? What damage would that do? What damage could he do?
Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, talks us through why this situation matters, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: The latest Radioactive-Righty thrust into a power position, in the Pentagon, is Retired Army Colonel Douglas Macgregor, a State TV regular, of course, history of xenophobia, history of racist comments, big proponent of immediately pulling all of our Forces out of Afghanistan, and he has parroted Kremlin talking points on Ukraine.
Macgregor, not alone, the new faces include a Retired General, too controversial for even Republicans to confirm, and a who's who of Trump's efforts to declassify anything that he seems to believe would exonerate him on Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Russia, Russia, Russia.
It was Russia, Russia, Russia.
Russia, Russia, Russia.
Russia, it was Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Sadly, that's him at some of his most cogent. And think about it, nothing Russia wanted in your heads about Biden that he didn't put there twice as much. Just so happens to be a topic Andrew McCabe knows well.
Good to see you, brother.
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR, FBI: Good to see you, Chris.
CUOMO: Why is he doing this stuff at the Pentagon? Do you think it's about Russia disclosure or something worse?
MCCABE: I think it could be - it's a - there is a couple of things that come to mind here. It's obviously not clear exactly what the President is trying to accomplish.
I think, in the short run, the idea of putting officials into positions to greenlight the continued release of confidential and highly-classified Intelligence, to support his political grievances, is concerning enough.
[21:50:00]
But honestly, Chris, from my perspective as a law enforcement official, concerned with protecting the homeland, in terms of my career in the FBI, I know that there is a very delicate balance between the military and their very, very limited involvement in law enforcement activity in the United States.
And that requires very high-level requests from the Attorney General to the Department of Defense, usually only happens during times of national security special events.
And I am concerned that the President may be putting officials in positions to potentially greenlight or slick the skids for the involvement of our military in domestic, political and law enforcement activities, and that is something every American should be concerned about.
CUOMO: First of all, like what? Second of all, then are we getting lucky that it's on the military's side, and not on the Intelligence side, where they'd have more immediate access to this type of declassification?
MCCABE: Well, I don't think there's any lack of pressure being put on the Intelligence side at the same time.
I think the reporting today in "The Washington Post" was highly concerning about a concerted effort among Intelligence officials, from the military, to the CIA, to the Attorney General himself, to Democrats and Republicans in the Senate, all of whom are desperately trying to stop this President from declassifying highly, highly sensitive Intelligence that was used in the Intelligence Community assessment in 2016, to detail the involvement of Russian meddling in our election in 2016. So, that is happening, right now, according to the reporting in "The Washington Post."
What's happening at the - in positions of leadership, in the Department of Defense, is another very concerning - undermining of the independence of our military and Intelligence infrastructure.
CUOMO: Stepping on toes aside, what's the big deal if some sources and methods get exposed? What is the risk?
MCCABE: Well, it's a very big deal to some of those sources, who might be facing a very significant threat to their own lives.
But I will tell you this. Just obviously, I'm limited in how detailed I can get, talking about the work that we did, on the Intelligence Community assessment. But it will tell you that that assessment was the result of a tasking from President Obama to put everything we knew on the table about what the Russians might have done in 2016.
And that product, at its highest most classified level, included information from sources of irreplaceable value to the United States government, unbelievably highly-classified sensitive sources.
And to think that a President of the United States would risk compromising those unique sources of Intelligence, in our government, simply to solve some political grievance or to support his narrative about Russia, it's unthinkable. I mean it is unthinkable.
CUOMO: Unthinkable? What have you been? In a foxhole, for the last three days or four days? What do you mean it's unthinkable? MCCABE: Well it should be.
CUOMO: The guy won't even turn over power. He's got no proof.
MCCABE: It should be unthinkable. How are we here? Why are we even talking about this? I can't even believe we're having this conversation.
CUOMO: He is holding up the transfer of power in a democracy over sour grapes. Come on, Andrew! You know better than that. You've been in the media game long enough to see what's going on around here.
Not everything is all dotted and crossed. People just do things for bad reasons sometimes. Let's hope this plays out in the favor of those sources, so the work of Intelligence can continue.
Andrew McCabe, I appreciate you. Thank you.
MCCABE: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: Got to teach these guys everything!
Listen, we must honor those who honor us by putting their lives on the line to protect our democracy. And this is a day to do it, Veterans Day, long tradition here, and an important one.
We can never repay our heroes. But that's not completely true because what so many veterans will ask you is to vote, to take your democracy seriously, to respect what they do, and respect what you do, with the rights that they have allowed us to secure.
Our tribute, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: 19 million veterans in the U.S. Why don't we serve them the way they've served us? "Thank you for your service." We say it, right? But do we mean it? What do we do about it? Do we fight for them and their care and their G.I. Bill? "Meh," right? Not enough.
Do we live our lives in respect of the rights that they secure? God, country, family, they live it. But where are we? Look around you, COVID, chaos, and complete animus. And you know why I
believe that is in large part is what we're seeing going on in our politics, namely with our President.
I absolutely want to connect this day with this President, because these men and women sacrifice their lives, and their well-being, and their families, and their futures, so that things here have a chance to be better. And that's not what he represents.
And I'm not talking about him shirking his own military service. I'm not even - forget, he spent less than 10 minutes at Arlington National Cemetery to honor our Fallen Heroes. It's not right.
But the bigger problem is that he dishonors our sense of duty that we recognize on this day. Denying the defeat in this election is denying our democracy. And accepting defeat from COVID, the way he has, is inexcusable, in a leader.
His refusal to accept the results of a free and fair election is exactly what these men and women do for us. They make us able to have this system. We should take it seriously. We should respect it.
Freedom, peace, integrity, those are values that we are allowed to have here. They are secure, but not with this president and not now.
Think about it. We honor the men and women who serve us. We should do it by having clear eyes and proud hearts about what we accept and reject in our leaders. Thank you to those who served and their families. Time for D. Lemon, "CNN TONIGHT."
