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Trump Campaign Drops Arizona Lawsuit Acknowledging It's Moot; Biden Closes in on 306 Electoral Votes, Which Trump Used to Tout; Trump Team's Pattern of Using Paper Stacks to Make Claims; Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, Professor, Yale School of Management, Discusses His Meeting with CEOs as Trump's Refusal to Concede Fuels Concerns about Economy. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 13, 2020 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:31:32]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: As President-Elect Joe Biden wins in Arizona, the Trump campaign concedes a loss by dropping a lawsuit requesting review of ballots.

Lawyers called it moot after a vote tally showed President Trump could not overcome the margin of victory.

This is another blow to the president's baseless claims for voter fraud in states like Arizona.

And David Chalian, our CNN political director, co-host for the podcast "POLITICALLY SOUND," is with us now.

David, what does an Arizona win do for the former vice president?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, it adds to his Electoral College total. This is where things stand. It is about an 11,000-vote lead. And as you noted, we projected it.

It meant 11 more electoral votes go into Joe Biden's bucket. That brings him up to 290 electoral votes, Brianna.

And now all eyes are on North Carolina and Georgia. Those are the two states remaining uncalled.

In those states today, counties are certifying their county totals, sending it onto the state. We'll see what we learn about the certification process in those two states.

But look at what's racking up here, Brianna, the national popular vote. Joe Biden -- I know we elect presidents through the Electoral College, and Joe Biden has secured that victory. That's why he is president-elect.

But he has a 5.3 million-vote lead over Donald Trump nationally. Nearly 78 million votes now for Joe Biden, 72.6 million for Donald Trump.

You see here a 3.4 percent margin. And that's going to continue to grow. Places like California and New York are going to continue to adhere to their totals.

The turnout is astounding. Joe Biden's victory is decisive, both in the national popular vote -- and as we called Arizona, we will wait to see if he keeps Georgia in his column, looks likely -- he will have a pretty robust Electoral College vote as well.

KEILAR: I know the president likes to malign mail-in voting baselessly when he should not.

But I also wonder, David if the mail-in voting also kind of caused this delay, and the results being what they are, in such a way that what is amounting to a huge win by Joe Biden has been a little eclipsed by the time period it has taken to get to the bottom of the numbers.

CHALIAN: Such a good point, Brianna. I think the president made clear months ago that this was part of his strategy, right, in maligning mail voting.

His voters weren't going to participate that way. Democrats participated robustly through vote-by-mail. They were urged to do so by Joe Biden and others.

What you saw happen, what the president now calls the votes being stolen in some way, which is not at all true. What it is, is the votes were being counting.

That's why we saw Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin on election night, they were red because it was just Election Day vote.

As mail vote got counted, that's exactly how Joe Biden won the presidency, by winning those states that Donald Trump won four years ago.

So he, no doubt, set the game so that it would be like, where are votes coming from.

Well, they're coming from legitimately cast ballots from millions upon millions of voters in the midst of a pandemic that delivered a huge victory for Joe Biden.

KEILAR: David, thank you so much --

CHALIAN: Sure.

KEILAR: -- for taking us through this. We really appreciate it.

If Biden wins Georgia and loses North Carolina, as David mentioned, he will walk away with exactly 306 electoral votes.

That's pretty fascinating because that's exactly the number of electoral votes Trump won in 2016 when he described his victory like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:35:06]

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We had a tremendous landslide Electoral College victory like people haven't seen in a long time.

Not only did we win the election, we had an Electoral College landslide, OK?

(CHEERING)

TRUMP: It was a landslide.

We had an Electoral College, as you know, Congressman, we had a landslide, 306-223. We had a landslide.

They lost an election and they lost it big. It was really a landslide from the Electoral College standpoint.

(voice-over): He only got upset about it after the results were very conclusive, 306 to 223.

(on camera): Then it got bigger and bigger, and wilder and wilder. Then we won by a lot. Don't forget. It was 306 to 223. That's a lot.

We had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the Electoral College.

This was an excuse for the Democrats, who lost an election, who actually got their ass kicked, 306 to 223. That's a pretty good shellacking.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: It is like rain on your wedding day. It's a free ride when you've already paid, don't you think?

Next, as the president's allies push conspiracies about election fraud, they're using props. We will roll the tape on that.

Plus, I will speak live with someone who attended a meeting of American CEOs. What they plan to do now that the president is refusing to concede.

And one of the last world leaders to congratulate Joe Biden on his win.

Stay with us.

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[13:41:24]

KEILAR: As the president remains out of sight after his election loss, his allies are flocking to TV to push their baseless claims that the election was stolen and they're using some very familiar props.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We keep hearing the drum beat of, "Where is the evidence." Right here, Shawn (ph), 230 pages of sworn affidavits. These are real people, real allegations, signed with notaries.

These are real. Anyone that cares about transparency and integrity of the system should want this to pursue to the discovery phase.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: This, of course, despite election officials across America, including Republicans, saying there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

But certainly did not deter White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCENANY: I now have three binders --

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST, "HANNITY": Wait, hold that up.

MCENANY: -- which are affidavits.

HANNITY: Let me see. Hold that up. Can I see it?

MCENANY: Well, I have three binders. These are court filings and affidavits.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Binders, yikes. A word to the wise in politics, don't talk about binders. Historically, it hasn't gone well.

This stack-of-papers tactic is nothing new. Back in 2015, then- Candidate Trump tweeted this picture of himself supposedly signing his tax returns, which to this day we still haven't seen.

The "New York Times" reported this year, among other revelations, that Trump suffered big losses and only paid $750 in federal income taxes in recent years.

There are real factual stories behind these props. And they make you wonder why the president or his allies would hold them up.

In January of 2017, then President-Elect Trump tweeted this picture claiming to be writing his inaugural address.

Then he held a news conference about his plans to divest from his private company.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: These papers are all just a piece of the many, many companies that are being put into trust to be run by my two sons.

And I hope, at the end of eight years, I'll come back and I'll say, oh, you did a good job. Otherwise, if they do a bad job, I'll say, "You're fired."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Since that moment, conflicts of interests surrounding his business dealings have been front and center, whether it is questions about foreign influence or all of the taxpayer dollars spent at his properties when he visits them.

Later that year, another stunt with paper stacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: So this is what we have now. This is where we were in 1960. And when we're finished, which won't be in too long a period of time, we will be less than where we were in 1960. And we will have a great regulatory climate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: He likes metaphors as much as he likes stacks of papers.

Like these ones that he was signing in photos taken at Walter Reed during his hospitalization for coronavirus.

Now, we still don't know what, if anything, was on them. There was no legislation or executive order that required his attention at the time.

But he clearly wanted to give the impression that he was busy working, not convalescing through an aggressive treatment of steroids and experimental monoclonal antibodies.

Moments after he abruptly ended his pre-election "60 Minutes" interview, Kayleigh McEnany delivered a stack of papers in a binder to Lesley Stahl, claiming it was the Obamacare replacement plan.

This stack of papers in this binder, the one that's been promised, this plan has been promised to Americans for years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCENANY: On behalf of the president, I need to deliver his health care plan. It is a little heavy.

[13:45:00]

LESLEY STAHL, CO-HOST, "60 MINUTES": Oh my god, this is his health care plan?

MCENANY: Yes.

STAHL (voice-over): It was heavy, filled with executive orders, congressional initiatives, but no comprehensive health plan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: To repeat, there is no replacement plan.

But those in the White House aren't the only ones impressed by big books.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED NEWS HOST: At the end of President Trump's interview, when he said, I'm done, Kayleigh McEnany brought his health care plan in, handed it to Lesley Stahl because she was questioning him about that.

He did say --

UNIDENTIFIED NEWS HOST: It was gigantic.

UNIDENTIFIED NEWS HOST: Yes, it was huge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Yes. And it was just a prop.

Like this list that we dissected two days ago on this show, a stack of papers from the Trump campaign's lawyers allegedly listing more than 3,000 counts of voter fraud in Nevada.

When really it is a list of Nevadans who can legally vote from out of state and overseas, including servicemembers who are deployed or stationed around the country and their spouses.

These are binders full of nothing, stacks of information with information worth less than the paper they're printed on. They may be huge but they're also empty.

Still ahead, President Trump's refusal to concede fueling new concerns about the economy. I am going to talk live with a professor who convened a meeting with more than two dozen CEOs.

Plus, coronavirus curfews. Bars and restaurants worried about survival as new restrictions take effect.

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[13:50:56]

KEILAR: The list of Republican lawmakers coming out to acknowledge Joe Biden's victory in this election is growing. But what would a refusal to concede due to the economy? My next guest convened a meeting of more than two dozen CEOs of major

American companies to discuss what to do it President Trump refuses to leave office.

Jeffrey Sonnenfeld is a management professor at Yale.

Jeffrey, thank you so much for joining us.

JEFFREY SONNENFELD, PROFESSOR, YALE SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT: Thanks, Brianna. Good to be with you.

KEILAR: It's great to have you.

First, can you tell us which CEOs participated in this conference call? Who was on it?

SONNENFELD: I can't give you the names. It was all confidential and off the record. I had flashed it by your producers and others backstage so they could verify who they were.

But they're many of the largest CEOs. They're 50 of the Fortune 100 CEOs. So that narrows the list down quite a bit.

It was the biggest pharmaceutical companies, retailers, manufacturers, the biggest consulting firms in the world, all U.S.-based. And they -- none of them had any parochial self-interest. This was all driven by a sense of alarm and patriotic concern.

KEILAR: What does the plan look like so far? What is the plan if the president continues to deny losing when he's lost?

SONNENFELD: Brianna, in terms of what catalyzes and pulls them together -- and you may ask what type of authority I have to convene a meeting.

I've been convening CEO summits for the last 32 years, even before the World Economic Forum was founded. But we don't promote them. They're all private, off the record.

Just given that relationship, a number of them started calling me during and after President Trump's speech last Thursday night that elevated their alarm, that they were concerned what he was saying.

As you know, this is one network that didn't cut away. One cable broadcaster didn't. But most of the broadcast networks did cut away. And others since.

And they're thinking, well, these are unfounded claims. And they were worried, what does it mean in terms of respect for a peaceful transfer of power.

And so they suggested we start to talk. And this thing mushroomed.

So between 7:00, when that talk was over, that speech was over, and midnight, 30 of the 35 that I invited said they would join. The other five asked to stay in touch. We opened with a Professor Tim Snyder, a political historian, who

actually talked about how democracies only fail from the inside. And an election is usually the pivotal point where a democracy can fail and how fragile they are. These are fluid systems.

That when somebody claims extra-legal powers, once they break beyond the rules, then the only way to protect it is by having major institutional leaders, such as CEOs and other trusted figures of authority in society, to speak out.

That's what these CEOs did. They -- there was a strong feeling the president should be entitled, like any citizen, to have freedom of expression and to be able to appeal any injustice to the courts if they can demonstrate some evidence.

Across the board, these CEOs said we don't see any evidence but he should be entitled to raise it. However, we are concerned there will be an immediate, legitimate -- conference of legitimacy to the president-elect when it happens.

In fact, the very next day, the business roundtable that was represented at this -- we had several board members from the business roundtable with us, including OOK (ph), the chairman who was there, who is the CEO of Walmart. And Steve Schwarzman was there with us from Blackstone.

So you're tempting me to give you some names.

Is -- the sense was that, as soon as Pennsylvania was called, as you folks called it, and then that was the very next day, that what Professor Snyder cautioned the group they need to do is make sure they have a clear statement and it's an immediate statement.

That statement almost verbatim is what was picked up by the other major trade associations, world leaders from London, the U.K. to Israel to Saudi Arabia.

It was almost verbatim, the same statement, congratulating the president-elect and the vice president-elect, and confirming this was a free and fair election.

[13:55:02]

And that the president's entitled, if there's evidence, to bring his case to court.

KEILAR: Yes.

SONNENFELD: But that we need to move forward in a peaceful transfer.

KEILAR: Yes. This is -- look, CEOs are confronting this. World leaders are confronting this.

SONNENFELD: Confronting this --

(CROSSTALK) KEILAR: Jeffrey --

(CROSSTALK)

SONNENFELD: And we're also going to talk to individual legislators to make sure that they're on board.

KEILAR: Yes. All very interesting conversations we would like to be a fly on the wall for.

But thank you so much for giving us a --

(CROSSTALK)

SONNENFELD: Oh, sure.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: -- a little inside information.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Yes.

SONNENFELD: If we don't hang together, we'll hang separately, was what they were all saying.

So thanks.

KEILAR: Very -- very interesting.

Jeffrey, thank you so much for shedding some light on this.

SONNENFELD: Thank you.

KEILAR: Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, we appreciate it.

Breaking news. There are dozens of Secret Service officers self- isolating after coronavirus exposure. One source say information is pretty hard to come by here.

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