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Dr. Fauci Says Liberating Feeling Serving Under Joe Biden; McConnell Proposes Impeachment Trial Delay; Interview with Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO); FBI And ATF Increases Reward To $75,000 For Tips On Pipe Bombs Found Near Capitol During Riot; Prosecutors Have Charged About 120 People In U.S. Capitol Hill Riot; Senate Dems File Ethics Complaint Against Hawley, Cruz, Over Capitol Hill Riot; First Full Day For VP Harris; Harris Won't Move Into VP Resident Yet; Repairs Needed To Naval Observatory. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired January 21, 2021 - 20:00   ET


ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: From the county's district attorney that four people have been charged all with rioting, along with other charges -- Erin.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, Alex, thank you very much.

And thanks very much as always, to all of you. We'll see you back here tomorrow night. It's time now for Anderson.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening, a day after the most joyous and upbeat moment for any new President now comes all the rest, all the tricky parts all at once, because when that day ended, and this one began, we learned that another 4,229 Americans had died of COVID.

So today, facing a sagging economy, a potential impasse with the Republican lawmakers who are already questioning his commitment to bipartisanship and a Senate impeachment trial of the last President, President Biden made COVID the focus, taking Executive Actions that don't require congressional backing, signed a series of orders, memoranda and directives aimed at boosting mask wearing, setting up mass vaccination sites and using the Defense Production Act to make the supplies needed to increase vaccine production.

The White House also released a 198-page document outlining the new national COVID strategy. And of the seven goals it lays out, the one that comes first is perhaps the most telling. It reads, "Restore trust with the American people."

And whether the President can do that, of course remains to be seen and our commitment to holding elected officials accountable on that score does not change from one administration to the next. That said, the contrast with the last President was certainly apparent today as this President put the bad news first and did not gloss over it.


JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let me be very clear, things are going to continue to get worse before they get better. The Memorial we held two nights ago will not be our last one, unfortunately. The death toll will likely top 500,000 next month. The cases will continue to mount.

We didn't get into this mess overnight. It's going to take months for us to turn things around.


COOPER: Another part of the new approach is to leave much of the talking to the public health experts.


QUESTION: You've joked a couple times today already about the difference that you feel and being kind of the spokesperson for this issue in this administration versus the previous one. Can you talk a little bit about how free and how much different do you feel?


The idea that you can get up here and talk about what you know, what the evidence is, what the science is, and know that's it. Let the science speak. It is somewhat of a liberating feeling.


COOPER: The President wants to get out $1.9 trillion COVID and economic relief bill through Congress, and at this moment, congressional Republicans show few signs they are willing to cooperate.

In addition, Senate Republicans are demanding Democrats agree to not limit G.O.P. power to block most legislation without a 60 vote supermajority, which on the one hand, could force more bipartisanship compromise.

On the other hand, Minority Leader McConnell could use it the way he did against President Obama blocking nearly everything in anything he could. So we'll see on that.

And on top of that, there's another impediment to any semblance of unity, namely the sad, but not so unforeseeable fact that G.O.P. lawmakers have already started backing away from objectively verifiable reality about the insurrection that just days ago, they openly blamed on the former President.


QUESTION: Leader McConnell has said that President, former President Trump and other important people provoked those folks to come to the Capitol. Do you believe that President, former President Trump provoked?

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I don't believe he provoked. Did you listen to what he said at the rally?


COOPER: Keeping them honest, the Minority Leader known as Kevin McCarthy ought to get acquainted with a guy from just last week also named Kevin McCarthy.


MCCARTHY: The President bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding.

These facts require immediate action by President Trump, accept to share responsibility, quell the brewing unrest and ensure President- elect Biden is able to successfully begin his term.


COOPER: It turns out that was so last week. They also speak volumes about next week and all the weeks to come.

More now on all of this from our new senior White House correspondent, CNN's Phil Mattingly. Phil, obviously this White House wants to move on with its agenda even if the former President still looms large in Republican circles in Washington, what exactly did the Biden administration lay out today?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Look, Anderson, I think the contrast could not be more clear and that's by design, and whether that's on the policy front, whether that's on the ideology front or whether that's just on the symbolism front, and having Dr. Anthony Fauci kind of lead the briefing to start today, they are trying to hammer that home every step of the way.

Look, when it comes to the actual executive actions, you kind of nailed the key components of them, surge of the key materials that will help on testing, that will help on things like PPE, areas where there have been weaknesses or weak spots that have been identified over the course of the last couple of months, also on masking particularly on trains and planes, on Interstate travel, trying to set up the infrastructure, in large part with the Defense Production Act or asking agencies to utilize that to be able to better disseminate the vaccine once it is available as well.


MATTINGLY: Those are the actions that I think are being pointed out right now. But you mentioned that 200-page national plan, I think what that underscores more than anything is really twofold.

To restore of the public trust has been a key component from the President on down over the course of the first 48 hours of this administration, in their briefings, in their efforts to try and be honest about just how bad this could get over the course of the next couple of months. But also that document underscores the effort to make this a

centralized Federal program. If you look back to the last administration, while they had elements on the Federal side of things, they were largely handing things out to the states to handle and that led to a patchwork of issues that were repeatedly brought up as problematic.

This administration, this follows their ideology trying to centralize things, create clearing houses, create opportunities for states to move through the Federal government and use the full force of the Federal government to address many of the shortfalls this administration believes exists.

Look, they have been very clear that the President himself calling the vaccine distribution infrastructure at this point dismal.

Now, Dr. Anthony Fauci said he believed they are not starting from scratch at this point in time. They are using elements that the administration -- last administration put into place, however, they are certainly ramping up, Fauci said.

COOPER: President Biden has made clear these actions aren't enough for him, but are Republicans receptive to the $1.9 trillion legislative proposal?

MATTINGLY: The short answer is no. And the longer answer is the administration has a lot of work to do right now and they are doing that work behind the scenes, the Legislative Affairs team, the Economic team reaching out to these lawmakers trying to bring them on board.

The President has said he is a dealmaker. He believes he can make a deal and they want to go in a bipartisan direction here. But right now, Republicans are not signaling they're there yet. There's a lot of work to do. That's going to take place largely behind the scenes over the course of the next couple of weeks -- Anderson.

COOPER: Phil Mattingly, again, congratulations on the new beat. So today was clearly a break from the past when it comes to the pandemic. Question, though, will it be enough of a break? Is it sufficient to the moment that we are facing? What about these new strains and the threat they pose and will Republican lawmakers some of them push for bigger Federal relief checks just a few weeks ago now find ways to change their tune now that there is a Democratic President asking for it.

Joining us, CNN medical analyst, ER doc and former Baltimore Health Commissioner, Dr. Leana Wen, also CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

Sanjay, today, first COVID briefing since November 19, which is pretty incredible. In terms of the science behind the new administration's plans, what stands out?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, several things stood out. I mean, we first saw President Biden talking specifically about all the various specifics, specific plans that would come about as a result of this sort of whole of government approach.

You know, we heard this whole of government terminology used quite a bit by the last administration. But today, as I was listening to him, it really struck me, F.E.M.A. is going to really deal with setting up a hundred community vaccination centers in the next month.

C.D.C. is going to focus on getting pharmacies to start vaccinating. H.H.S. is going to work on getting more people to actually be the vaccinators, actually pushing the syringes into people's arms. So really, you know, relying on, you know, all the capabilities of the government.

And then Dr. Fauci is at the press briefing, as you mentioned, we haven't seen him in two months at one of these briefings, and he talks about the fact that here are the trends. Here's what we can expect over the next several weeks. Are the variants going to be responsive to the vaccines? If so, why? If not, why not?

It was very factual. It was very honest. It was very evidence based. So all of that stood out to me. Anderson, it was very, you know, frankly, very different than what we'd heard for quite some time.

COOPER: Dr. Wen, when a reporter asked President Biden of a hundred million vaccine doses in a hundred days, which is his proposal was enough, he responded, quote, "It's a good start." Is it a good start? Is it enough?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, it's a start. I don't think it's a good start, though, and that's because we're actually already at that number, a hundred million in a hundred days sounds like a lot. But that's a million vaccinations done a day, which is what we are doing right now.

And so that's not exactly a very aspirational goal, especially as we are now going to be expanding to so many different vaccination sites. And having vaccinators as Sanjay was saying, and enlisting community pharmacies and health centers, actually, at the rate of a million vaccinations a day and we're not going to be able to reach herd immunity to vaccinate, let's say, 80 percent of the American people and two shots for those individuals. We're not going to be able to reach herd immunity until June of 2022. That's not a moonshot.

And I really applaud President Biden for having this comprehensive plan. I mean, we've been waiting a year from the Trump administration to lay out a comprehensive plan. So I'm glad that there is one, one day into the presidency, but I think it needs to be a lot bolder.


COOPER: Gloria, a CNN analysis found, I think, was 1.6 million flu vaccines a day were distributed this past October. So the capability is there for more. Do you think the President is under promising? So if they get better results, then it seems like they've overachieved? GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I do. I think that's

exactly what they're doing is when President Biden was asked about it today, the beginning of that, quote, where you said it's a start was, "Give me a break. It's a start."

He got a -- he got a little testy about it, and they don't want to fail, they cannot fail. So they don't want to over promise. We had an administration just recently, which was full of over promises. This is going to go away in 15 days, et cetera et cetera. I don't have to say the whole list.

They need to succeed in this. This is their most important job right now. So this is what they promised early on. They're going to stick to it and I think they know they are going to surpass it, but they don't want to fail.

COOPER: Sanjay, Dr. Fauci said today that there are alternative plans to alter the vaccine if needed to deal with these variants. How can the country improve sequencing to learn how many cases of the U.K., the South African and Brazilian variants are here?

GUPTA: We really haven't been looking much for this. And what that means is you're looking at the virus, you're sequencing it, you're basically seeing if the viruses is changing, if there are more mutations? If so, where are those mutations? And would the antibodies that are created either because of vaccine or because of someone becoming infected, will they be able to combat these variants?

We just haven't been looking. We do about 0.3 percent of the sequencing right now, compared to five percent roughly in the U.K. We could probably easily double that by developing these private-public partnerships. A lot of it is being done by the private sector right now. So simply bringing on some of these public labs would make a big difference.

But one thing I want to point out that Dr. Fauci also said, we can show this graphic, Dr. Fauci also said that he believes that the current vaccines will be effective against these variants. But it's also important to point out that if the transmissibility is 50 percent higher, for example, and that sort of carries forth over a month, the 50 percent more contagious, that's the right side of your screen, would lead to nearly 11.5 times more deaths, as compared to whether it's 50 percent more deadly, that would lead to one and a half times more deaths. I hope that makes sense.

The point being that if it's very contagious, it'll obviously spread more easily, it'll become the dominant strain and people who are vulnerable will become more likely to become infected.

And right now, you have these encounters with people, even if you're being careful, you may let your guard down, take your mask down, have a closer encounter than you probably otherwise would. You can't do that with these contagious strains. And I think that's the point he was really making.

COOPER: Dr. Wen, I mean, are the vaccines -- do they work against these more contagious strains?

WEN: Based on the studies that have been done so far, it looks like they do work. Although, I will say that there are some preliminary studies that show that maybe some of these new strains like the South African variant and the Brazilian variant, there may be less efficacy with the vaccine.

We don't know for certain, though, and I think this really underscores the point that Sanjay was making about really this race against time that we have at this point. The C.D.C. has this really shocking projection that the U.K. variant could become the dominant variant in the U.S. by March, which means that we don't have a lot of time to get a lot of people vaccinated very quickly.

And by the way, we also have to be suppressing the level of viral spread, because the more there's viral spread, the more it replicates, the more it could mutate. And so we are in a race against time here.

COOPER: You know, Gloria, Dr. Fauci obviously, a stain on from the other administration. What's your take on his sort of talk about being liberated?

BORGER: I think it's obvious from his face and his demeanor that he feels liberated, but here was my favorite part of what he said today. He said, "One of the things new with this administration, is if you don't know the answer, you don't guess just say, you don't know the answer."

So he's saying it's okay because we believe in science, and sometimes with this kind of a disease, we are just finding things out as we go along. And the implication there was, of course, that there was a lot of guessing going on in the previous administration.

COOPER: Which is, I mean, terrifying. Sanjay, Leana Wen, Gloria Borger, thank you so much.

Next, breaking news on the timing of an impeachment trial, and a move that could push it into next month.

Also, later tonight, authorities say that they have identified one of the attackers that we interviewed during the siege. He boasted at the time, quote, "We broke down the barriers and we rushed in. We charged them." Just ahead, the charges he now faces.



COOPER: Some more breaking news tonight, Senate Minority Leader McConnell proposing the Senate give the former President's legal team two more weeks to prepare for an impeachment trial once the House Managers deliver to the Senate. That could happen as early as tomorrow one source tells CNN.

Also late today, we learned that the former President apparently now has a lawyer. His name is Butch Bowers and he is from South Carolina. More from CNN's Ryan Nobles, who joins us from his new beat at the capital.

Congratulations on that, Ryan. How has Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer responded to McConnell's proposal to delay impeachment trial by two weeks?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: At this point, Anderson, he is not saying very much. He just said that he is reviewing the McConnell proposal. He's going to mull it over and then respond.

We are hearing from some other Democrats including one very close to President Biden, and that is Delaware Senator Chris Coons, he told our Wolf Blitzer that he would be open to an arrangement where if Democrats offered to push off the impeachment trial until the middle of February, the Democrats would go along with that as long as it meant that Republicans were going to swiftly confirm the President's Cabinet nominees.

Now, it's not very clear whether or not that's the assessment that Schumer has and also the assessment that the Speaker Nancy Pelosi has. They are the two that really control this process. So even though Mitch McConnell has offered up this proposal, we won't really know where it goes until we hear from the Speaker and the Majority Leader.


COOPER: And at this point, do we know how the trial will proceed? Will there be witnesses and evidence presented?

NOBLES: Yes, that seems to be very much an open question right now as well. Dick Durbin, who is also a member of leadership in the Senate Democratic Caucus, he said that he has no idea whether or not witnesses will be called or whether or not there'll be a full blown impeachment trial like we saw the last time around.

There have been some Democrats that have offered up that this is an open and shut case and it shouldn't be that -- it shouldn't take that long for the trial to proceed. But we should be clear that Republicans believe that the President, the ex-President should be afforded a full day in court and all the trappings of his legal arguments. That's part of the reason that Mitch McConnell is giving him a two-week window to prepare for this trial and also write his pretrial briefs.

All of this seems to be an open question right now, Anderson, and it is clear that both sides are horse trading and we're not going to know the outcome for at least a couple of days.

COOPER: Ryan Nobles, appreciate it. Joining us now is Colorado Democratic Congressman, Jason Crow, who just a couple of weeks ago was preparing to defend himself and the people around him against an attacking mob.

Congressman Crow, Speaker Pelosi today seemed unclear as to when she'll send the Article of Impeachment over to the Senate. Do you have any update as to when that might happen?

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): I don't, Anderson. I think what they're trying to do is work out an agreement, which is the right thing to do. I mean, I am not going to play politics with this, nor should anybody play politics with this issue.

If we can come up with an agreement with Senator McConnell and Senator Schumer, and do this in a collaborative way. That's the right way to do it.

COOPER: So you wouldn't be opposed to delaying the start of the trial until February?

CROW: You know, I do think it's important that we do it as quickly as we can. I mean, I was a proponent of trying to get the President removed from office before the 20th. That obviously did not happen given the rules of the Senate.

So now that we're past that, and President Trump is now out of office, I still want to do it as quick as we can, because I think justice needs to be brought to the President and those involved.

But you know, he is entitled to his defense. I mean, we are the United States of America. We are a country that promotes the rule of law. I'm for the rule of law, he's entitled to a defense and to have his attorneys review the evidence, so we have to balance those two requirements.

COOPER: POLITICO is reporting, there's discussion happening about a trial being as short as three days. President Trump's first impeachment trial was almost three weeks. Do you think that would be sufficient to meet the standards of a fair and complete trial? Three days?

CROW: Well, this is really different, Anderson. You know, when I tried the trial, a year ago, we were dealing with corruption allegations, the use of military funds, a long line and chronology of information regarding dealings with Ukraine. And we had to tell that story, not just to the Senate, but to the American people as well.

A critical difference here is that everybody knows what happened on the sixth. And actually, the jury, in this case, the Senate were actually victims of the same crime. They were there. They were victims of this insurrection in this violent mob as well.

So what we do need to do, though, is tell the context leading up to that. That in my view is going to be one of the most important things is that what happened in the six did not happen overnight. You know, that took years and months to build up to that moment, the pressure cooker, the incitement that the President and his allies have built up to lead to the 6th, that's going to be really important story to tell.

COOPER: So in your mind, the President's incitement went far beyond just the words he spoke on the morning of January 6th?

CROW: Absolutely. I mean, if we are sitting back and being honest with ourselves, which we have to be, you don't get a mob of thousands of people that believe this big lie, that believe that the election had been stolen, that believe these QAnon conspiracy theories, that doesn't happen in a couple of hours.

That doesn't happen, because the President said, go and, you know, let those people hear you and stand up and fight for your democracy. And then two hours later, they're storming the House and Senate chambers.

This has taken a long time to bring us to this point, a pressure cooker that's been building that the President has intentionally been building over many years and that's a really important story to tell here.

COOPER: Speaker Pelosi was asked about the possibility of calling witnesses today and said it was up to the impeachment managers. You served as a manager obviously in the former President's first trial, is that something the current impeachment managers should consider?

CROW: I think they will consider it. You have in Jamie Raskin, an outstanding lawyer. He's the lead impeachment prosecutor here, a constitutional scholar, they are going to leave no stone unturned, and they're going to figure out how to present a really good case.

That might include witnesses, that might not; in our case, we needed the witnesses because there were people like Ambassador Bolton, who were in the room who heard what the President and other people were saying regarding Ukraine and that was information that had to come out. The Senate decided they didn't want to hear it. They didn't actually want to have a fair trial and have that information come out to the American public.


CROW: This is a different situation where we saw what happened on January 6th, and much of the information that we're dealing with here is actually public record. It's the President's speeches. It's the President's tweets. The things that he has done that led to the insurrection on January 6th, so it's a very different scenario I think we're dealing with in this case.

COOPER: I mentioned earlier in that House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy said today that he doesn't believe that President Trump provoked the attack on the Capitol. He said, if you look at what he said that morning, I mean, this is the same person that took to the House floor days after the insurrection saying the President bears responsibility for the attacks on Congress by mob rioters.

Is it concerning to you that someone in Republican leadership seems to be, you know, I don't know, if he is just flip flopping on the issue? Or if he was just, I mean, I guess maybe he could claim he was just referring to the talk that morning. But even then, it seems like a flip flop.

CROW: Yes, it seems like a flip flop because it is a flip flop. That's the honest truth here. You know, I often have whiplash in trying to keep up with Mr. McCarthy's various statements. I think he thinks that we have much shorter memories than we actually do because he'll just say one thing one day and change it the next day. Fortunately, we have him on tape saying these things. So you know, I cannot -- I just can't speak for Mr. McCarthy and some

of his Republican colleagues that change positions on a whim based upon the prevailing winds of the day.

You know, the truth has got to come out. Truth does still matter. Facts still matter. Consistency matters and that's what this is going to be about in the weeks and months ahead.

COOPER: Congressman, Jason Crow, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

CROW: Yes. Thank you.

COOPER: Up next. We have more breaking news tonight. Police say one of the arrests made in the wake of the Capitol Hill insurrection was this man who admitted to CNN what he was up to.

Plus, I will talk with Democratic Senator Mazie Hirono about the ethics complaint she and six other Senate Democrats filed against two of her Senate colleagues in connection with the attack.



COOPER: Breaking news now in the wake of those Capitol Hill riots, but 120 criminal cases have been filed against individuals two weeks after attackers invaded Congress. One of those arrested who has since been released awaiting trial and a variety of charges a man named Barton Shively from Pennsylvania. Prosecutors said he quote, laid his hands on officers in three separate incidents. That's what he told CNN's Elle Reeve on January 6.


BARTON SHIVELY, FMR MARINE: That's what we're doing, fighting back.

ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): And what's the point? What's the endgame?

SHIVELY: What's the point?

REEVE (on-camera): Yes.

SHIVELY: We're losing our freedom. What do you mean, what's the point?

REEVE: Describe it to me?

SHIVELY: Describe -- I'm going to you --


SHIVELY: What are we suppose to do? OK. The Supreme Court's not helping us. No one's helping us. Only us can help us. Only we can do it.

REEVE: What are you going to do? SHIVELY: Whenever we have to do, what do you think 1776 was?


COOPER: CNN Shimon Prokupecz has more on that and the broader investigation. So, what the -- what's the latest on arrest and charges of those involved?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, like chivarly Anderson, what we're seeing now is several people across the country being arrested for assaulting police officers. We've saw that -- we've seen that brutal video copy of the attacks on police officers, some of it hand to hand combat some of that, where they were using weapons. In one case, they arrested a Michigan man who brought a hockey stick with him here. And he used that to be one of the officers. And that's what we're seeing now. You're having a number of arrests, continuing, as you said, 120 arrests. But now it seems that law enforcement in the FBI is focusing in on some of the individuals who actually attacked the officers who are trying to protect the capital. These are arrests are going on all across the country.

And also a significant arrest recently, just yesterday by the FBI. They arrested a man by the name of Joseph Biggs. He's a organizer, a founding member of the Proud Boys. He apparently according to the FBI was wearing a walkie talkie, your style, some like something in his ear, which indicated that he had a walkie talkie. That is significant, again, because the FBI is looking into whether or not people help we're organizing what happened here in the days leading up to the insurrection.

COOPER: And we're just the larger investigation stand?

PROKUPECZ: So, as you said Anderson right now, more than 120 arrests, but we're talking about hundreds more expected. Could be up to 400 could be even more that the FBI says that they could possibly charge 400 more cases that they could bring. The big significant thing now for law enforcement is these conspiracy charges. We've seen this with the Oath Keepers that extremist group, we've seen some members of that group being charged. The FBI is continuing to focus on people who were part of more organized groups and organized coming here, whether they were planning to use buses and planning to come here with weaponry, that kind of information is what FBI is looking for.

The other thing Anderson is remember, there were these pipe bombs, the FBI upping the reward on the pipe bombs, because the leads on that have gone really cold. So they've upped the reward on that. For law enforcement that indicates that perhaps these people, whoever planted these pipe bombs were a little more sophisticated than the FBI initially thought because they really have no leads at this point on who these individuals are.

COOPER: And what security like now in the Capitol. I understand fencing started to come down around the Capitol last night.

PROKUPECZ: Yes, it did around the Capitol. So we're around the Capitol. You could see still some fencing here. But I could tell you, we couldn't stand here. Up until today. Yesterday, this area was shut down. We're not seeing as many National Guard troops around the Capitol. The district itself, some of the streets have been opened up and as you said, some of the fencing has come down.

But the National Guard in law enforcement is remaining here. We could see National Guard troops here for at least another month. So, that is something that the mayor said today. They're looking to see whether or not they could see soften some of the security even further. But there definitely is a different feeling here, Anderson, you don't have kind of that tension around us. You don't have all that law enforcement and military and those military vehicles that we've been showing for days. They're still out here, but certainly Anderson, not as many as we saw leading up to the inauguration.


COOPER: All right, Shimon, appreciate it. Thanks so much for the reporting.

There's more breaking news. Seven Senate Democrats have filed an ethics complaint against Republican Senator Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley saying their actions, quote, lent legitimacy to the mobs cause. Senator Hawley you remember was captured in this photo raising a clenched fist to mobs before the Capitol was invaded. Both he and Senator Cruz objected to the election results, despite all evidence to the contrary.

With me now as Democratic Senator Mazie Hirono, one of the senators filing complaints. Senator Hirono, thanks for being with us. So, can you explain why --

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): Good evening.

COOPER: -- you and your six colleagues think it's important to bring this ethics complaint now?

HIRONO: Neither one of these senators have expressed any contrition for what happened. And in spite of the fact that newspapers and people have been calling on them to resign, including myself, they're not going to resign. And we would like to have an investigation by the Senate Ethics Commission Committee as to whether or not they engaged in conduct that would result in disciplinary action, including expulsion.

COOPER: You -- I want to quote from your complaint, it says the actions of which we know demand and investigation determination of whether disciplinary action is warranted. Now, as you know, each house of Congress has the right with a two-thirds vote to expel a member recommendation of expulsion hasn't happened to a senator since 1995. I mean, is that what you are potentially talking about here expulsion?

HIRONO: That's one of the that could be one of the disciplinary actions. After all, you know, what these two senators, they were part and parcel of trying to overturn fair and free elections. And they both participated in perpetuating the big lie that this election was stolen, and that Trump actually won. That is the Big Lie capital B, capital L. And so, even if hundreds of Republican House members wanted to object to the electoral count, unless they had at least one senator to go along with it, these objections by the House members would have gotten nowhere.

So, here you have both senators Cruz and Hawley practically stepping over each other to say, look at us, we're the ones that's going to help you folks object. Perpetuating the big lie, which we saw led to the resurrection, and the U.S. Capitol, and five people dying, hundreds being arrested, as you just noted.

COOPER: Are you will --

HIRONO: And so, there needs to be accountability for these two senators. It's really an investigation.

COOPER: Is doing things which enabled the lie to continue. Is that I mean, is that actually something that's actionable in terms of ethics? Are you alleging that perhaps there's something more?

HIRONO: Well, we'd like the investigation to go into, you know, what kind of relationship or was there any collusion between these two senators and the leaders have the the rally and the rioting? What did they know? Did they get any money? They -- the letter complaint asking for an investigation goes into some of these areas that we would like the ethics committee to investigate. But the bottom line is, these two members participated in trying to overturn free and fair elections. And they had to have known for well, that they were perpetrating a big lie. Which, by the way, and those are tality of the circumstances, Trump for months, was perpetuating that lie, dozens of losses that got nowhere for lack of evidence, mainly.

And so, these two people are both lawyers. In my view, they should have known that what they were doing was totally irresponsible, leading to what happened at the U.S. Capitol.

COOPER: You know, one of the things that I remember Senator Cruz saying is, and I'm paraphrasing, essentially, that their argument often seem to be well, there's, gosh, there's a lot of people who believe that there was something fishy about the election, therefore, we should have this bipartisan commission. And that would require we, you know, we toss out the votes of of all these people.

HIRONO: Even Lindsey Graham said, that kind of a commission is getting nowhere, it was just an excuse. So, here's the President and others perpetuating the big lie. And Cruz and Hawley use that the fact that there are a lot of people in our country who believe the big lie, who excuse or as a reason for their behavior, and that's -- you know what they're going to have their chance before the ethics committee I hope, which I hope will take up our request to make their case that they should be totally excused from their participation in the big lie.


COOPER: Senator Mazie Hirono. I appreciate your time. Thank you.

HIRONO: Thank you. COOPER: With the White House and our new administration. We want to explore in depth this important moment of history that we are living through. Documentary filmmaker Ken Burns and presidential historian Doris Kearns Goodwin just ahead.


COOPER: Say the former President spent his first full day as a former president the way he spent many of his days as president golfing. CNN crews bought him just before noon in the course at his golf club in Florida. According to a senior U.S. official yesterday, before leaving office, he signed a memorandum extending Secret Service protection by six months for all his kids. Typically, this protection would apply only to children up to the age of 16. It was a final norm breaking move in our tenure defined by both norm breaking and controversy, of course.

The former president's legacy. More importantly, the challenges that the current president and the nation face are the focus of a one hour special report that's going to air on CNN on Saturday evening.

We want to show you a preview of it now but discussion, which I did this afternoon with two of America's most distinguished historians. I -- you may have seen I talked to them that night before the inauguration, Ken Burns and Doris Kearns Goodwin we had such a fascinating discussion. We asked them to come back. Doris Kearns Goodwin is a best selling author most recently of Leadership In Turbulent Times. Here's some of what we talked about.



COOPER (on-camera): Ken, when we spoke on Tuesday night, the night before the inauguration, you said I feel like tonight is New Year's Eve. I think we just got the date wrong. It's now the new year. How are you feeling?

KEN BURNS, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: I'm feeling relaxed. I feel like I've exhaled. I feel like there's a little bit of lighter bounce in my step, in a sense that some great tension. I think it was that existential threat of whether we would still be who we have claimed we will be. Now, I don't pretend. nor should we ever sugarcoat our history and think that it'll all be OK. Just because we hope it will be it will be not. And there's lots of hard work ahead of us.

But I think what we saw yesterday were the signals of adults, the signals of people who understand how to use the instrumentality of government, people who don't automatically see government as an end in and of itself. And people who understand that there's something bigger than themselves. The outgoing president felt that that the buck stopped with him only in the sense that it was about him. Joe Biden clearly serves a God and a savior, and a government and the ideals behind those governments and the idea of cooperation, and the idea that there is no communication except among equals.

So, we begin again, yesterday, and today and tomorrow with an idea that we can press a restart button and get going again.

COOPER (on-camera): Doris?

DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I think I felt in a certain sense that the hunger for leadership that the country was experiencing was met, both at the inaugural address but even more by the talk that Biden gave the next day with his national plan for action with the virus. You know, what FDR was able to accomplish in 1933 was not simply that phrase, there is nothing to fear, but fear itself. But more important, I'm going to take action, I'm going to be a wartime leader, I'm going to put a plan in place I'm going to call Congress. And the day after the inauguration, what Biden did was to say he was a wartime leader to talk about the national plan to give all of us a feeling that we'll be working on this together, and that that goal of 100 million vaccines in arms will be met with hope.

At the same time, I think there was a certain sense of normalcy that returned, just even seeing a press briefing briefing that first night, you thought, oh, my God, this is great. They have press briefings. And all of these things you should take for granted, you should take for granted that when they exchange gifts, there's a warmth between the congressional leaders between Pelosi and MacDonald -- McConnell. But there was and to see them together at the mass and to see them at Arlington with the three presidents there. You just felt like the government was living again. And that's sort of what happened after FDR. That headline said, we have a leader the government still lives. And that's what I felt. So maybe a little political, enormous mom say, now the dream is to get back to everyday normal, say, once the virus is under control. That's the real dream.

BURNS: You know, we really do have that opportunity now. And we talk about these divisions, and perhaps they're permanent, but the way you change those is by delivering the services that you need. You think as Doris pointed out about the first days and years of FDR's administration, he brought power to the Tennessee Valley, he electrified a parts of rural America, rural America needs the same attention as we were talking about the other day, it needs to feel like somebody cares. There are little tiny Main Streets hollowed out for decades now. And the sense of place, and a sense of belonging has left people adrift. And of course, they will become susceptible to lies, which of course, assassinate nuance and complexity, and don't allow us to get things done, and they're susceptible to grievance, which then promotes that division and makes it impossible to find allies, your natural allies. In fact, you're told that your natural allies are your enemies, and then we find ourselves at war with one another.

You know, I was reminded by a moment in Richard III by Shakespeare, where someone says where is comfort, and a character responds, comfort is in heaven. You know, we live the President brought up St. Augustine in his inaugural remarks the other day, and St. Augustine said and had to remind people, we live in the city of human beings. We live in this city of man, we don't live in the city of God. And so, there's lots of work to do. And it's so nice to see someone saying, I'm rolling up my sleeves right now. And I'm going to get something done. And it's just like FDR. I want 50,000 planes this year. We can't do 50,000 planes, Mr. President. Yes, you can. No we can't. Yes you can. We can only do 5,000 they did. 50,000


COOPER (on-camera): It's one of the things though Ken and I heard you say, actually, when we talked last time you said to me, so much of this is about having their problems magnified in a negative way. That that's something the former president did. He magnified real problems that people have, but he magnified them in a negative way, as an -- and there is an alternative that and really it is about -- that is what leadership is about?

BURNS: Well, you know, this, the campaign of the former president began when he came down the escalator and lied first about Mexican immigrants. And he left on the tarmac at Andrews lying again about his accomplishments or ignoring other important things in between that, we were told there were 30,000 plus live, but told, I think it's the Washington Post that accumulates, this total lies. As Biden said in this thing told for power and for profit.

What you have in good government is the opposite of that. The willingness to say it's tough, and it's going to get tougher. FDR was never afraid to say how bad it was. He was able to, as Doris mentioned, explained the whole theory of the banking system on a Sunday night and people had pulled their money out on Friday, and they put it back in on Monday. He put it in the terms of neighbors and friends. And, you know, there was something I don't think that people read or petitions are going to look back at Biden's inaugural has any great, spectacular flowing prose the way we've heard from a Kennedy or particularly a Lincoln, but it was as good as it gets. Because he said, folks, he spoke to people as if he knew their problems.


COOPER: That is -- I love talking to historians. You know, it's just such a great perspective and the best. Just a portion of a much larger discussion with historians Doris Kearns Goodwin, and Ken Burns. You can watch the full one hour special living history this Saturday 11:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN. Hope you tune in for it.

Just ahead, Vice President Kamala Harris and her history making first full day in office how she spent her day and why she and the second gentlemen haven't yet moved into the Vice President's residence.



COOPER: Important first day in office not only for Vice President Kamala Harris, but the many first she represents the first woman to hold that office as well as the first woman of color. First black person, the first person of South Asian descent as well. She's expected to occupy a large role in the administration. One thing she will not occupy a president is the Vice President's residence. For details on why and warn her first full day in office.

We're joined now by our Chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins. So, we saw Vice President Harris every time we saw the President today. Did her day largely mirror his?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it did. I think from aides, what we've learned is that we can expect that at least for these first few weeks as they are gaining their footing. You see there she's overlooking as the President is signing those executive orders that he signed today related to the coronavirus pandemic. But she was also there this morning as they were there for the prayer event that of course, was virtual, much like a lot of their inauguration was yesterday. And then they had also had their president's daily brief, they both received it together according to the schedule.

And then after that meeting, there were they were signing all of these executive orders focused on the pandemic Anderson, then they also went and they met with their COVID-19 team to discuss that.

So, we do expect we're going to see a lot of this. These tandem events between the two of them. But we're also told by aides that she was seen in the West Wing in her office there today. Of course, she also has an office next door and the Eisenhower Executive Office Building just about 100 feet away from the West Wing, but that is where like a lot of her aides will work out of but they also have that Western office space that she can use as well.

COOPER: And I remember talking about this yesterday that there's some renovations going on and the Vice President's official residence or are they still not moved in? How long is that going to be?

COLLINS: No, they haven't moved in yet. They haven't really provided a date of when. Kamala Harris is actually going to move into the official vice president's residence. But what we do learn what we have learned is something pretty interesting, because she of course, has a home here because she was here before as a senator, but we've just learned she's actually going to be not far from the White House, you could probably walk to work tomorrow, if she wanted to, because she's going to be staying in the Blair House, which is the President's guest house just a few feet away. I just passed it on my way into the White House. She's going to be staying there while there are those repairs underway at the Naval Observatory, which is the official vice president's residence, those are really related to chimney, hot water, things like that things of that nature. You didn't really see the Pences leave for a very long time.

And our understanding is the reason she's staying in this in the Blair House is because it's easier to secure. She owns a condo in a building in Washington. But of course, that comes with other people also living in that building. It makes it more difficult to secure on the level that they typically would for a vice president. So, that's our sense of why she is going to be saying just across the street at the Blair House. And the Blair House is for people who aren't, you know, hyper focused on Washington. That's where foreign leaders stay when they come to visit. It's the President's guesthouse. Harry Truman actually lived there when renovations were happening here at the White House during his time in office.

And so, she is going to be staying there. We're going to see for how long. But Anderson as I was walking out earlier, I saw some of her staffers getting hotel cards, you know, those valet cards, putting her stuff on it, taking it inside, so this appears to be her first night staying there.

COOPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins. Appreciate it. Thanks very much.

News continues. Want to hand over Chris for "CUOMO PRIMETIME". Chris.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right, Coop. Here we go new normal. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to "Primetime".

There's much discussion about what the inaugural yesterday meant.