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CNN'S AMANPOUR

Investigating Kim Wall's Death; Interview With Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R-AR); President Biden Delivers his First Foreign Policy Address. Aired 2- 3p ET

Aired February 4, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone, and welcome to AMANPOUR.

Here's what's coming up.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): If we are now going to start judging what other members have said before they're even members of Congress, I think it

is going to be a hard time for the Democrats to place anybody on committee.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Whether to weed out extremists in the GOP. Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson joins me on his party's existential crisis.

Then:

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): At 19:00, she set out to sea on a homemade submarine to get an interview and didn't return as planned.

AMANPOUR: New on HBO, "The Investigation," the bizarre murder case of the Swedish journalist Kim Wall. I talk to her parents and to director Tobias

Lindholm about honoring Wall's quest for truth.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

[14:00:02]

President Biden continues to assert his leadership at home and around the world with a major foreign policy address, and of course, rafts of domestic

directives, not least on COVID and the vaccine rollout.

But his underlying appeal to unity is hitting early obstacles, from the bailout bill for American families to row politics. Indeed, across the

aisle, the Republicans are in a highly divisive and very public fight for the soul of their own party.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy has refused to strip a member who embraces QAnon conspiracy theories of her committee assignments, and

despite her shocking endorsements of violence against Democrats and fanning the flames of the Capitol Hill insurrection.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi criticized the Republican leadership about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I remain profoundly concerned about House Republicans' leadership acceptance of extreme conspiracy theorists,

particularly to serve as their eagerness to reward a QAnon adherent, a 9/11 truther, a harasser of child survivors of school shootings, and a valued --

to give them valued committee positions, including -- who could imagine they would put such a person on the Education Committee?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Now, the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, has slammed the new GOP congresswoman's -- quote -- "loony lies" and calls them a

cancer on his party.

So, where does the GOP stand?

Who better to ask than the Republican governor of Arkansas, Asa Hutchinson? He's a former three-term congressman. He was undersecretary of the

Department of Homeland Security under President George W. Bush. And he was an impeachment manager in the case against President Clinton.

Welcome, Governor, from Little Rock, Arkansas. Thank you for being with us today.

Can I turn to something that's super important and obviously was determinative during this last election? And that is obviously COVID in the

United States and the vaccine rollout. Your state seems to be doing better, with deaths and cases coming down and vaccines rolling out.

Just give me a picture of how it's going in Arkansas.

GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R-AR): Well, it is going well, even though we have a limited supply of the vaccine.

And as long as that is limited, it's going to be slower than we'd like. But we are doing well. We're getting over 60 percent of our doses out very

quickly. Whenever it's a first dose, we get it into the arms within 72 hours of when it gets here into the state. And we're getting better and

better at it every day.

We continue, want to improve. And I applaud the fact that, with the Biden administration, we now have 16 percent increase in our vaccine supply,

followed by another 5 percent that's going to be increased late this week. And so that will help us to do more.

But our cases are going down. People have to continue to make sure, one, they take the vaccine when it is their turn and realize that it is safe and

it is necessary. And then, secondly, until the vaccine is widely distributed, we have to continue to be disciplined with wearing a mask,

socially distancing.

We're trying to do that here in Arkansas.

AMANPOUR: You are, I guess, one of the rare Republicans who publicly has praised what you have called the seamless vaccine efforts under this new

administration. And you have said that you have a pretty good partnership with the federal government.

You probably know that President Trump's own pollsters, the former president, in the autopsy on his loss in November, essentially attribute it

to his mishandling of the COVID crisis. I mean, the very fact of life and death was at stake.

So, how do you compare, let's say, as governor of your state, the previous administration's handling of this and the current administration? What are

the big structural differences you see?

HUTCHINSON: Well, that's a great question.

And when I referred to it as being a seamless transition, it's really a compliment to the professionals on the Trump administration Coronavirus

Task Force as they handed off to the Biden administration. And it's been seamless. And that's important for the states, because we don't want that

supply chain to be interrupted.

And there absolutely is differences in style and leadership and comments from the presidential level. But if you look underneath that to the

professionals, to the vice president's leadership, Vice President Pence on the Coronavirus Task Force, and with what's happening under President

Biden, it is the same level of commitment, professionalism, understanding the importance of getting the vaccines out, accelerating the production.

[14:05:03]

And so I'm sure that there will be differences. But, from a governor's standpoint, it was critical that they hand this off well. And I think

that's been done.

Obviously, I asked the Biden administration, well, how are we get this new supply? Did you just find it somewhere? And, of course, I said that

jokingly, but the answer is, just like we get better in the states, the manufacturers get better as well, improve their processes. So I hope that

supply continues to increase.

AMANPOUR: And, again, you complimented the Biden administration for seamless distribution of the vaccine.

So, I want to ask you what you're thinking. I know you're a governor, and this is happening in Congress and with the White House. But this $1.9

trillion, basically, the bailout bill for hurting American families, where do you think it's going to land?

And I just want to play -- because, obviously, there's some pushback from Republicans. They want it smaller or differently targeted. But this is what

the Republican governor of Virginia has said about this moment now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JIM JUSTICE (R-WV): Trying to be, per se, fiscally responsible at this point in time with what we have got going on in this country, if we

actually throw away some money right now, so what?

We have really got to move and get people taken care of and get people back on balance. And I want to work with the Biden administration, just like I

worked with the Trump administration. And I want us to move forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So, of course, I misspoke. It's the governor, Jim Justice, of West Virginia, as you clearly know better than me.

So, where do you stand on this coronavirus relief bill? Where do you think it's going to land?

HUTCHINSON: Well, more importantly than being -- going big, we need to go reasonable on it.

And I think it is a fair debate as to exactly the dollar amount that should be contained in the relief package. Everyone agrees that the states need

money for vaccine administration. We need additional funds in terms of education, keeping our schools open. We need to also make sure that we

provide relief for small businesses that are still hurting. And the stimulus checks are important.

But, at the same time, there is a fair debate as exactly how large that package should be and make sure it goes to the right people. And for the

Biden administration to say, we're just going to stick with our plan, we're not going to seek compromise with the Republican side, I think, is

shortsighted.

For example, in Arkansas, we have right now a $240 billion surplus. We have a 4.9 percent unemployment rate. And so we are -- our economy is doing

well. We don't need $1.9 trillion to boost the economy right now. We need a smaller amount to do that with the assistance to the states.

So, I think we have to be commonsense about this and recognize that it's borrowed money. And we need to be careful about exactly the amount that we

borrow and we send out to the states for these needs.

AMANPOUR: Understood that sometimes it has to be carefully targeted, but really interesting to hear major economists across all sorts of even the

IMF and wherever you look, including in the United States, say that it's never been a better time to lend money. There is just so much at good rates

right now.

Can I ask you, though, about your own party? So, you kind of stand out in the Republican firmament of having acknowledged two days before the Capitol

Hill insurrection, when Biden's election victory was meant to be certified, you said: "Joe Biden is our president-elect."

You attended the inauguration. You spoke, as we have just talked about, to his transition team, and you pretty have much been following the

constitutional playbook.

Do you feel somewhat out of step with your party, when you see how the majority of Republicans in the House which you used to be a member of voted

not to certify his election and all the stuff that's going on now? Where do you think you fit in the regular Republican Party?

HUTCHINSON: Well, I don't feel out of step at all. I do believe that the Republican Party needs to return more to its roots.

We need to make sure that we concentrate on sound fiscal policy, less regulation and growing the private sector of our economy, things that have

really brought people together within the Republican base.

We have got sidetracked for the last four years, but with a very dominant personality, and that has created division. The election has created

division within our party and how we have responded to it.

And so I don't feel out of step, but I do believe I want to, without any question, engage in the debate to lead -- help lead the Republican Party

back to its roots. That's a fight that is important for us.

[14:10:05]

And what's happening in Congress, both on the Senate side with the impeachment trial and on the House side with a debate about a member who

offered these atrocious comments that I reject, that the party should reject, that is -- the debate is going to go on for some time.

But we need to get back to our roots, and we need to get away from that extremist element that has moved our country in the wrong direction in some

areas.

AMANPOUR: So, let me just talk about this member who you have just mentioned.

Atrocious comments, you say you reject them. As we said, the Senate minority leader, Republican Mitch McConnell, has called them loony lies, a

cancer on the party. And yet the House, where she is a member, seems to be trying to have it all ways.

They're not -- the Republicans are not censuring her. And they are also coming to the support of the moderate traditional Republican who's been

under great fire. And that is Liz Cheney, who comes from a top-notch Republican pedigree, obviously, with her family history.

Can you have it all ways? Can you really have your Republican Party and this loony, as we might call it now, the loony right, as they used to say

the loony left, gaining so much strength and power?

HUTCHINSON: Well, the fact that Liz Cheney defended her vote for the impeachment as a vote of conscience, that they retained her in leadership,

shows that you can differ from others, and still have a vote of conscience like this.

So, I think this speaks very well of our Republican Conference, and the fact that they have embraced and understand the importance of the liberty

of Liz Cheney and her vote.

In terms of the other congresswoman that has said these things that are outlandish, that's a different category, because those are statements that

have hurt people, that have misrepresented our party, and have been disavowed.

In fact, she has now had to disavow them herself. That's a tough call, because she's elected. You don't want to deprive a district of

representation, but also a seat on a committee. But we have done that in the past.

I know that, back in the 2000s that we, as a Republican Party, took the committee assignments away from Steve King for statements that he made. And

so it is a different environment now. For my vote, I would say that she should be not on those committees, simply because we have got to distance

ourselves from those kind of comments that are conspiratorial, that are hurtful, and embrace violence.

AMANPOUR: So, it's very interesting to hear you say that, as one of the grandees of the Republican Party.

And, yes, she did have to come and do a mea culpa, knowing that the House was going to vote, and that the Democrats had the votes and that she was

going to be voted off these committees. And she did not denounce this QAnon. She, in fact, equated it with the media. She played the victim. She

did the whole nine yards, as usual.

So it's really interesting to hear what you say.

But I want to also just push you a little bit, because I want to ask you -- you used to be a U.S. attorney. I said you were in the Department of

Homeland Security. You have had many, many major, important government jobs over your career and elected jobs.

I think I heard you say that four years of allowing President Trump to finally end up with this Capitol insurrection may not have been wise. And I

guess I'm trying to figure out whether you think the head of the snake of this QAnon new generation needs to be cut off now, before it becomes

unmanageable?

HUTCHINSON: Well, absolutely.

If you're talking about QAnon, we reject that. That's got to be cut off.

AMANPOUR: And those who support it?

I mean, this woman who supports it, any elected official who supports it?

HUTCHINSON: I don't know if you can make that judgment carte blanche, but I wouldn't want anyone that embraced that conspiratorial theories to

represent me. I would not vote for them. I would not want them to be associated with our party.

Now, let me go back to President Trump, though. He was good on policy. He did a lot of good things for the Republican cause, for America, that I

fully, fully support. And I don't want to distance myself from those things. I embrace those things.

But in terms of how the election was handled and how it misled Americans that the election was stolen from him, we're still reaping damage from

that. And that's what we have got to remedy very quickly, and make sure we're not going to go down that path again.

[14:15:03]

AMANPOUR: I'm going to push you again, because the former Senator John Danforth, of course, another lion of the Republican Party, has said that

your party has become -- quote -- "a gross caricature of what the Republican Party has traditionally been."

And I know you say Donald Trump has been good for policy in some of the instances that you mentioned. But he also was -- launched a major attack on

the Constitution and on your own democracy.

So, where do you think the party is headed? When you see all this, plus the impeachment that's going to happen -- or the trial, rather, in the Senate,

where do you see this landing? And how long do you think it's going to take to iron out these issues within your party, to make it a two-party system,

like it's meant to be in the United States, as opposed to unelectable, as we saw in the last election?

HUTCHINSON: Well, I mean, first of all, the Republican Party had a very good election cycle, increasing representation in our state legislators in

Congress. The Senate, we split.

And so, other than losing the top position of president, we had a very good election cycle. We are going to go through a very difficult two to four

years, because these are going to be primary issues. It's going to be fighting for the heart and soul of our party. There's going to be division

there. There's going to be primary contests.

And the next couple weeks are going to be challenging, because people are going to have to express themselves and these issues in the United States

Senate. And so -- but the history of the Republican Party has been diminished in times past. They say, we're not going to survive an election.

We do.

We're going to be a major player in the next -- we're going to win whenever you look down the road, because the American people do embrace the

conservative philosophy that we offer. They just do not want to have us dominated by extremism.

And that's what we have got to avoid in the coming two years.

AMANPOUR: You lost -- you lost the White House. You don't have the House. You pretty much don't have the Senate. And you lost Georgia. These were

pretty big losses that many are putting at Donald Trump's doorstep.

But can I ask you this? You are not running again. You are coming up to the end of your second term. You're unable, under the constitution of your

state, to run again.

And Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who, as we remember, was President Trump's White House press spokesman -- woman -- she's running. She's the daughter

of a former Arkansas governor. She's raised a lot of money already. But she was known to be one of the least truthful adherents to facts and truth

during her time on the podium.

Do you support her candidacy? Will you vote for her?

HUTCHINSON: Well, I have got two years left in my term, I'm going to concentrate on that.

Yes, the election has started for 2022. There's three candidates in there now. There's likely to be more. I'm going to stay out of it. That's

probably the smartest move I have made politically for some time. And they're going to have a hard-fought contest in the primary and presumably

the general election.

I expect the seat to stay Republican after I leave the governorship. And I know the people of Arkansas will decide that issue.

AMANPOUR: So, kind of yes or no, if she's the candidate, you will vote for her?

HUTCHINSON: I'm not going to say who I will vote for. That's two years away. And I'm not taking sides in that election.

And so we will wait and see how the campaign goes. But I'm -- I'm neutral on that.

AMANPOUR: All right.

HUTCHINSON: I'm not taking sides on it. There are some really good candidates that are offering themselves.

AMANPOUR: And it was extraordinary for all of us, as members of the press, to watch her really wage this war on truth throughout her time on the

podium.

Anyway, I didn't hear a ringing endorsement from you, Governor.

So, thank you very much for your perspective. Really valuable. You have said some really interesting things this evening to us.

Governor Asa Hutchinson, thanks for joining us from Little Rock.

Now, we turn next to a gruesome murder that shocked the world back in 2017. And it is now the basis for HBO's gripping new series "The Investigation."

Thirty-year-old Swedish journalist Kim Wall went missing after she boarded a homemade submarine in Copenhagen to interview its designer. Her work had

appeared in "The New York Times," "The Guardian," VICE, and elsewhere.

Now, this series is not so much a crime drama, but an investigative drama. Here's a clip from the trailer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): This isn't a perfect crime. It's a clumsy, disgusting crime.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): She did nothing wrong. She was just curious. She was exactly as we want our children to be.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): How will we ever know what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): We need answers. Do you understand? We need answers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:20:07]

AMANPOUR: Now, the Oscar-nominated writer/director Tobias Lindholm created the investigation, with close collaboration from Kim Wall's parents,

Joachim and Ingrid Wall.

And all three are joining me now.

And I just want to say, welcome to all of you.

I believe the Walls are in Sweden. And, Tobias, I believe you're in Denmark. Thank you very much for being with us.

And I really do want to say, from the bottom of my heart, for all of us in the press, we have so much sympathy for you. And we offer still our

condolences on the death of your daughter, who was a great journalist.

So, I just want you to -- I just want to ask you, Ingrid and Joachim, why you decided -- and what was it about Tobias' pitch that made you want to go

into this filming and reliving of this terrible, terrible episode?

INGRID WALL, MOTHER OF KIM WALL: During the time from August 2017, there were -- there's been more than 100,000 articles written about this horrible

case.

But then -- but Kim isn't in the story at all. And we are so thankful for all the people who made the absolute effort, too, that we could bring Kim

home again.

So, we see this TV series as an honor to all these men and women that do their utmost, so that we could have Kim came back and bury her here at

home.

JOACHIM WALL, FATHER OF KIM WALL: In some way, our...

AMANPOUR: And, Joachim, what are your views?

J. WALL: We didn't give any interviews, nothing under the time the search for Kim was going on.

And it was -- it's the same as Ingrid said. So many things have been written about this case, but not about Kim, who she was, what she has done,

and so on. And the effort of all those peoples that has done possible to get the murder victim is -- we would like to give them the thank you for

that.

I. WALL: And it's also important for but that Kim is portrayed as a journalist, not as a crime victim. She was a journalist on an assignment.

She was...

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: Exactly.

I. WALL: Yes.

AMANPOUR: Yes. And that was very, very -- definitely very prominent in the series.

So, let me ask you, Tobias Lindholm.

I mean, the murder was gruesome, I hesitate even to speak about it. But her torso was dismembered. Her legs were and her arms were all found

separately, her head. And it was a terrible, terrible, terrible shock for the whole world, and obviously for her family.

What was it that made you want to really get to the bottom of this investigation? And what was your connection? Obviously, Jens Moller, the

head of homicide in Copenhagen, played a huge role.

TOBIAS LINDHOLM, DIRECTOR, "THE INVESTIGATION": Well, as everybody else in Denmark, I followed the story unfold in the press back in the late summer

of 2017.

And I quite fast turned my back to it, because it felt like that the media was reproducing a plot from a crime show that I had seen 100 times before.

I just -- as everybody else, I felt great sympathy with the people involved, but I didn't find any interest in following the obsession with

the darkness that I saw in both local and international press.

And not until I met Jens Moller, who was the chief investigator of Copenhagen homicide back then, and he told me some of his story after this

case, I realized that that darkness that had been described in so many details in the press, that darkness had a light inside of it.

It had a story about a system that worked, a society that stood together, and had a beautiful story about a friendship between Jens and Ingrid and

Joachim. It had a story about their strength. And it had a story about people in uniform who basically just did their job to help complete

strangers.

And I realized that, by telling that story, we could change perspective and hopefully, hopefully regain the respect in this story that had been told so

many times in a -- in my mind, a different -- strange way.

AMANPOUR: Well, the humanity of it really comes out loud and clear. And the connection between -- he is a really straight-laced professional

homicide chief and Joachim and Ingrid was amazing.

[14:25:00]

So I want to pay this little clip, which shows a little bit their relationship and his determination to continue the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): Someone laid a stone, and now it's a heart for Kim.

And they keep coming. Now almost everyone who passes by lays a stone.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): And you knew nothing about it?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): No.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Jens here.

Yes. OK. I will meet you at the harbor. Yes.

They haven't found anything. But I will keep you posted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So, Ingrid and Joachim, it really shows -- and, actually, so much of the series shows how many obstacles the investigation came up,

despite all the efforts.

But it also shows your relationship -- those were the actors playing you, the parents. Describe to me what it was like for you to make this

connection with the homicide chief, and how you got through what was a very, very painful many, many months until they were able to crack the

case.

I. WALL: It was 111 very long days and even longer nights before the entire Kim was -- was found.

And it was a very strange feeling to have this relation with Jens, because as -- in the beginning, it was very strict professional. And then,

somewhere, we found each other, as we are about the same age. And so -- and I think -- yes.

J. WALL: I think I have done many, many phone calls to Jens. And he had done the same thing back to me, and we have been discussing what's going on

and what we could do and what -- I asked him, what have you done and suggested something, maybe, and he could tell me, yes, we have already

thought about that then.

And we got -- he always was very, very clear of getting message to us in the first place. When he ran for a press conference -- and he had many of

them -- then he called us before and said: Now I will tell you -- tell the press this and this, but I will not give them this.

And he trusted us that we shut up and don't say anything to anybody. And that -- so, we -- he got trust in us and we got trust in him. And that's a

-- that goes to a big friendship on us to him.

AMANPOUR: And in real life, Joachim and Ingrid, I think that you are the ones -- I think it was you who told Jens, the real-life detective, homicide

chief, about using cadaver dogs, special cadaver dogs, to actually go out into the water and sniff where they could to see if they could find your

daughter's remains.

You were the ones that brought that up, right?

J. WALL: Yes.

I had one of our many telephone calls was Jens, and he was sad about that the divers were nearby giving up. And I asked him, because they didn't have

any -- it's a huge place to look for things underwater. And it takes time. And they have been diving so much.

And then I asked him, have you tried to take it special trained corpse dogs, dogs that are trained to sniff human being, human leftover? And he

said, no, we don't have that kind of dogs.

And I know from my work. So I knew that we have it in Sweden. So, I asked him: "Should you or should I tell the police to get over from Sweden to

Denmark?"

(LAUGHTER)

J. WALL: And he said: "No, no, I will call them."

But I called the Swedish police as well.

(CROSSTALK)

[14:30:00]

AMANPOUR: It was extraordinary to see how that actually -- that was the trick, that did it for the discovery of your daughter's remains.

Tobias, so much about your cast, about the film, obviously, the collaboration with the Walls is real. Even you had real divers. Tell me

about using, as actors or extras, the people who actually were real professionals and may have taken part in the real investigation?

LINDHOLM: Well, many of them was part of the real investigation. And well, the simple truth is that, you know, divers dive better than actors and

actors act better than divers. And in this case, I was allowed to have both. I took a chance and I called them to see if they wanted to be part of

this, and they definitely did. They felt a pride in the work that they had done and they also felt that, you know, by doing this, they would pay

respect to the job that was done back then. So, they came in.

And, you know, from an artist's point of view, I felt that if I wanted to keep on track and make sure that I didn't start to reproduce the stories

that I've already told in the press I needed to have as much -- as many elements from reality that I can get. So, we did get the real divers, the

real Swedish special trained police dogs, the real ships. And even, luckily, the real Isoval (ph), the dog of England, (INAUDIBLE), that played

itself. So, yes. We did have quite a lot of real elements in the show.

AMANPOUR: And you had -- you know, you were very painstaking in laying out the investigation. You know, it's over six parts. And it was extraordinary,

first, to see the divers and how they just kept at it and wouldn't give up. But also, to see, you know, the detectives. That woman who was key to Jens'

Moller's team, who -- they kept going over and over the evidence. What have we missed?

Because what we haven't said is that the prosecutor felt that he still didn't have the evidence despite everybody knowing that this guy did kill

Kim, he simply didn't have it beyond a reasonable doubt for court. And it was one of these young women or young investigators, who found the

inconsistency. I like the tribute you paid to the hard work of the investigators.

LINDHOLM: It meant everything to me to do a story that would celebrate their work. These are the unsung heroes of our society. And I think that,

you know, these years we spend a lot of time talking about our society not working, reminding each other of things that make us different as human

beings, and I felt that getting to know these people and realize the job they did reminded me that there are more things that connects us as human

beings than things that separate us.

So, it made it very important to be loyal to the work. And, you know, basically, I feel that many crime shows on the (INAUDIBLE) in general

misses the opportunity of getting to know what's actually going on. I mean, we have a scientist who tells us about currents around the waters in

Denmark. We get to understand how these dogs works and everything. And for me, that is extremely important, too, from a scientific point of view to

understand the world we are part of. And we could tell that by, you know, throwing our camera in their direction.

AMANPOUR: Yes, it was really effective, really, really effective and actually gripping.

Let me ask you again Ingrid and Joachim about your daughter's legacy. You know, we know what an immensely trained and productive journalist was. You

know, she was at the LSA here in the U.K. She was at Columbia School of Journalism in New York. She was at the Sorbonne. As I said, she had -- she

was printed in many different outlets. And one of the moving last aspects in the film is when you, Ingrid, you talk to a class of youngsters about

your daughter's legacy, about her journalism, and that leads you to create a foundation for her. I just want to play this extract from the film.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

I. WALL: Kim was a talented journalist. She was dedicated to talk about the injustice and the beauty of the world. She wanted to prove that a girl

from little Trelleborg can grow up and make a difference in a media dominated by men and help other people learn about themselves and about

others by telling stories from all over the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:35:00]

AMANPOUR: So, Ingrid, you actually wrote that speech along with Tobias. This is something that really meant a lot to you because it was about your

daughter and her legacy. Tell me -- because it was really noticeable, obviously, that her journalism was a huge part of the series and obviously

her life. And you have created a memorial fund in her name, right?

I. WALL: Yes. We did that one of the first horrible days and nights after Kim was -- had disappeared. We decided that this shouldn't be the end. In

some way, we have to -- Kim's legacy should live on. And we asked a lot of -- Kim had friends all over the world and we asked several of them, and

they said, of course, this is a good idea. And we worked together with IWMF, that I know you are very familiar with.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

I. WALL: And then -- and so far, we have let six young female journalists going out in the world and making stories in Kim's spirit. And right now,

we are in the final selection of this year's grantee. And there are so many good stories out there. And we -- and by helping other female journalists

going out and do these stories and let the world know, we know that Kim will live on through the fund and through other female journalists' work.

AMANPOUR: It is really effective. And I just want to close with Tobias because he also -- you made this about a quest for the truth. You made

Kim's journalism part -- a big part of your series but it was about finding the truth and it is such an important message always but especially today,

Tobias.

LINDHOLM: Yes. Thank you. It was important for me. You know, this is not a series about Kim. It's about the investigation. I knew that, in this case,

the journalist that Kim Wall, was the victim and we didn't want to make a show about her but we knew that talking about her we had to do it with

respect. And there was so much to respect. And then to meet Ingrid and Joachim, we felt honored of the opportunity to enlighten everybody with who

Kim actually also was.

AMANPOUR: Well, it really does show and is an extraordinary series. To you, Ingrid and Joachim Wall, thank you for joining us, and, Tobias

Lindholm, as well. And of course, what we know in real life is that the killer was sentenced to life in prison. And you never mentioned his name at

all and we never saw him, and that was very powerful as well. Thank you both so much. Thank you all of you for joining us.

And that is it for now. You can always catch us online, on our podcast and across social media. Thank you for watching and goodbye from London.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Breaking news. With just days until President Trump's second impeachment trial begins, his legal team is just getting

word that House impeachment managers want the former president to testify under oath.

Let's talk about this now with our CNN legal analyst, Elie Honig. What are Trump's options in response to this request?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Brianna. So, the House impeachment managers are really putting Donald Trump in a tough position here. So let's

walk though what his options are. Today what he got was a polite invitation to testify. Now, he can either say, sure, I'll be there, I'll testify - but

as Jake Tapper said earlier, that would be disastrous. No reasonable attorney would allow their client to do that. If he was my client, I would

tackle him before he - I allowed him to go into the well of the Senate, take an oath, and testify.

He can say, no thank you, I'll not be there. If that happens - and I think that's more likely - now it's back over to House impeachment managers. They

can either subpoena him or not. If they subpoena him, now it's a formal legal command -

KEILAR: All right, let's take - I'm so sorry to interrupt you, Elie. We have to go to the State Department ahead of the president speaking here.

Let's listen in.

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: -- his commitment to the American people, his expertise in foreign policy, his steadfast belief in diplomacy

and his rock solid support for our diplomats and development experts.

I've seen them on the Hill, in the Oval Office, in distant world capitals from Baghdad to Bodrum (ph), Paris to Peoria. And visiting our troops,

visiting our diplomats, visiting all the men and women representing this country.

And I can say without fear of contradiction that in the history of the presidency, no one has brought as much foreign policy experience to the job

as Joe Biden. Wherever he goes he's been champion for American leadership and a defender of American values.

And in Kamala Harris he has a vice president, we have a vice president with a long track record of standing up for the security people and an abiding

commitment to using diplomacy to advance our interest and defend our values around the world.

At this moment of unprecedented global challenge, it's more important than ever that the United States show up and lead because the world simply

doesn't organize itself to solve big problems and the well being of the American people hangs in the balance.

We need diplomacy to get the pandemic under control worldwide to save American lives and livelihoods. We need diplomacy to address the climate

crisis to protect communities across our country.

We need to diplomacy to check the rise of authoritarianism to prevent the spread of dangerous weapons, to shore up democracy, to defend human rights,

all of which makes the world more stable and free and all of which protects the security and prosperity of the American people.

Foreign policy is domestic policy and because our strength at home determines our strength in the world, domestic policy is foreign policy

too. President Biden and Vice President Harris know this better than anyone. That's why they believe so strongly in the work that we do at the

State Department.

And they've made it clear that the first question we must ask ourselves here at state is how will this benefit our fellow Americans, how will this

policy answer their needs? How will this outreach reflect their values? How will this initiative make their lives just a little bit better?

[14:45:10]

We're going to hold ourselves to that standard every step of the way. President Biden and Vice President Harris have come here today at the very

start of their administration to make sure we know that we have their support, and that means a great deal to all of the men and women of the

State Department.

We will do our best Mr. President, Madam Vice President, to make you proud. And with that, it is my pleasure to introduce the president of the United

States, Joe Biden.

BIDEN: Mr. Secretary, it's great to be here with you and I've been looking forward a long time to be able to call you Mr. Secretary.

Good afternoon everyone. It's an honor to be back at the State Department under the eyes of the first American chief diplomat, Benjamin Franklin. And

by the way, I want you all to know in the press, I was the Benjamin Franklin professor of presidential politics at Penn.

And I thought they did that because I was as old as he was but I guess not. Anyway, all kidding aside, it's great to be here and standing alongside our

most recent senior diplomat, Secretary Tony Blinken.

Mr. Secretary, thank you for welcoming us today and we've worked together for over 20 years. Your diplomatic skills are respected equally by your

friends and our competitors around the world. And they know when you speak, you speak for me.

And so -- so is the message I want the world to hear today. America is back. America is back. Diplomacy is back at the center of our foreign

policy. As I said in my inaugural address, we will repair our alliances and engage with the world once again, not to meet yesterday's challenges but

today's and tomorrow's. American leadership must meet this new moment of advancing authoritarianism, including the growing ambitions of China to

rival the United States and the determination of Russia to damage and disrupt our democracy.

We must meet the new moment accelerating global challenges from the pandemic, to the climate crisis, to nuclear proliferation. Challenging the

will only to be solved by nations working together and in common - we can't do it alone. That must be the - we must start with diplomacy rooted in

America's most cherished democratic values.

Defending freedom, champion opportunity, upholding universal rights, respecting the rule of law and treating every person with dignity. That's

the grounding wire of our global policy, our global power - that's our inexhaustible source of strength. That's America's abiding advantage.

So many of these values have come under intense pressure in recent years, even pushed to the brink in the last few weeks. The American people are

going to emerge from this moment stronger, more determined and better equipped to unite the world in fighting to defend democracy because we have

fought for it ourselves.

Over the past few days we've been in close cooperation with our allies and partners to bring together the international community to address the

military coup in Burma. I've also been in touch with Leader McConnell to discuss our shared concerns about the situation in Burma, and we are united

in our resolve. There can be no doubt that a democracy force should never seek to overrule the will of the people or attempt to erase the outcome of

a credible election.

The Burmese military should relinquish power they have seized, release the advocates, and activists, and officials they have detained. Lift the

restrictions on telecommunications and refrain from violence. As I said earlier this week we will work with our partners to support restoration of

democracy and the rule of law, and impose consequences on those responsible.

[14:50:00]

Over the past two weeks I've spoken with the leaders of many of our closest friends - Canada, Mexico, the U.K., Germany, France, NATO, Japan, South

Korea, Australia to be reforming the habits of cooperation and rebuilding the muscle of democratic alliances that have atrophied over the past few

years of neglect, and I would argue, abuse.

American alliances are our greatest asset. And leading with diplomacy means standing shoulder to shoulder with our allies and key partners once again.

By leading with diplomacy we must also remain (ph) engaging our adversaries and our competitors diplomatically where it's in our interest, and advance

the security of the American people.

That's why yesterday the United States and Russia agreed to extend a New START Treaty for five years to preserve the only remaining treaty between

our countries safeguarding nuclear stability.

At the same time, I made it clear to President Putin, in a manner very different from our predecessor that the days of the United States rolling

over in the face of Russia's aggressive actions, interfering with our elections, cyber attacks, poisoning its citizens are over. We will not

hesitate to raise the cost on Russia and defend our vital interest and our people.

And we will be more effective in dealing with Russia when we work in coalition and coordination with other likeminded partners. The politically

motivated jailing of Alexei Navalny, and the Russian efforts to suppress freedom of expression and peaceful assembly are a matter of deep concern to

us and the international community.

Mr. Navalny, like all Russian citizens is entitled to his rights under the Russian constitution. He's been targeted for exposing corruption. He should

be released immediately and without condition.

We'll also take on directly the challenges posed by our prosperity, security and democratic values by our most serious competitor, China. We'll

confront China's economic abuses, counter its aggressive coercive action to push back on China's attack on human rights, intellectual property and

global governance. But we're ready to work with Beijing when it's in America's interest to do so.

We will compete from a position of strength by building back better at home, working with our allies and partners, renewing our role in

international institutions and reclaiming our credibility and moral authority - much of which has been lost.

That's why we move quickly (ph) to begin restoring American engagement internationally and earn back our leadership position - to catalyze global

action on shared challenges.

On day one I signed the paperwork to resign the Paris climate agreement. We're taking steps led by an example of integrating climate objectives

across all of our diplomacy, and raising the ambition of our climate targets - that way we can challenge other nations, other major emitters to

up the ante on their own commitments. I'll be hosting climate leaders - a climate leaders summit to address the climate crisis on Earth Day of this

year. America must lead in the face of this existential threat.

And just as with the pandemic, it requires global cooperation. We've also reengaged with the World Health Organization, that way we can build better

global preparedness to counter COVID-19 as well as detect and prevent future pandemics because there will be more.

We've elevated the status of cyber issues within our government, including appointing the first Deputy National Security Advisor for Cyber and

Emerging Technology. We're launching an urgent initiative to improve our capability, readiness and resilience in the cyber space. Today I'm

announcing additional steps to course correct our foreign policy and better unite our democratic values with our diplomatic leadership.

To begin, Defense Secretary Austin will be leading a global posture review of our forces so that our military footprint is appropriately aligned with

our foreign policy and national security priorities. It will be coordinated across all elements of our national security. Secretary Austin and

Secretary Blinken working in close cooperation.

[14:55:00]

And while this review is taking place, we'll be stopping any plans to withdraw from Germany. We're also stepping up our diplomacy to end the war

in Yemen, a war which has created humanitarian and strategic catastrophe. I've asked my Middle East team to ensure our support for the United Nations

led initiative to impose a seize fire, open humanitarian challenge (ph) and restore long dormant peace talks. This morning, Secretary Blinken appointed

Tim Lenderking, a career foreign policy officer as our Special Envoy to the Yemen conflict and I appreciate him doing this.

Tim has a life - has lifelong experience in the region and had worked with the U.N. Envoy and all parties of the conflict to push for a diplomatic

resolution. And Tim's diplomacy will be bolstered by USI - USAID working to ensure that humanitarian aid is reaching the Yemen people who suffering un

- an endurable - unendurable devastation. This war has to end. And to underscore our commitment we are ending all American support for offensive

operations in the War in Yemen including relevant arms sales.

At the same time Saudi Arabia faces missiles attacks, UAV strikes and other threats from Iranian supplied forces in multiple countries. We're going to

continue to support and help Saudi Arabia defend it sovereignty and its territorial integrity and its people. We also face a crisis of more than 80

million displaced people suffering all around the world.

The United States moral leadership on refugee issues was a point of bipartisan consensus for so many decades when I first got here. We shine

the light of lamp of liberty on a fresh (ph) people. We're offering safe havens for those fleeing violence or persecution. And our example pushed

other nations to open wide their doors as well. So today I'm approving an executive order to begin the hard work of restoring our refugee admissions

program to help meet the unprecedented global need.

It's going to take time to rebuild what has been so badly damaged but that's precisely what we're going to do. This executive order will position

us to be able to raise the refugee admissions back up to 125,000 persons for the first full fiscal year of the Biden-Harris administration. And I'm

directing the State Department to consult with Congress about making a down payment on that commitment as soon as possible.

And to further repair our moral leadership I'm also issuing a Presidential memo to agencies to reinvigorate our leadership on the LGBTQI issues and do

it internationally. You know we'll ensure diplomacy and foreign assistance are working to promote the rights of those individuals included by

combating criminalization and protecting the LGBTQ refugees and asylum seekers.

Finally, to successfully reassert our diplomacy and keep Americans safe, prosperous and free; we must restore the health and morale of our foreign

policy institutions. I want the people who work in this building and our embassies and consulates (ph) around the world to know I value your

expertise and I respect you and I will have your back.

This administration is going to empower you to do you jobs. Not target or politicize you. We want a rigorous debate that brings all perspectives and

makes room for descent. That's how we'll get the best possible policy outcomes. So with your help, the United States will again lead not just by

the example of our power but the power of our example. That's why my administration has already taken the important step to live our domestic

values at home, our Democratic values at home.

Within hours of taking office I signed an executive order overturning the hateful discriminatory Muslim ban. Reversed the ban on transgender

individuals serving in our military. As part of our commitment to truth, transparency, and accountability we stated on day on - we started on day

one with daily briefings of the press from the White House. We reinstituted regular briefings here at State at (ph) the Pentagon.

[15:00:00]

END