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AT THIS HOUR

Biden Urges Congress to Expand Government's Role with $4T Plan; FBI Raids Giuliani's Home & Office, Escalating Criminal Probe; India Suffers Worst Day of Pandemic with Record Cases, Deaths; Sen. Manchin Raises Concerns About Biden's Aggressive Agenda. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired April 29, 2021 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:21]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us.

At this hour, President Biden will soon be leaving for Georgia, a state that was obviously key to his presidential victory. He is marking the 100th day of his presidency and also will be kicking off a nationwide push to sell his ambitious and expensive new economic plan, a plan he laid out last night during his first address to a joint session of Congress.

In all, $4 trillion of programs. The latest focused on education and childcare. Altogether, it is a breathtaking rework of the role government plays in our society.

Let's get over to the White House. Jeremy Diamond is standing by for us.

Jeremy, it is ambitious. How is he going to pay for it? That is where the rubber meets the road here.

What you are hearing today?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, President Biden said he is planning on paying for this American families plan by increasing taxes on the wealthiest of American individuals and corporations. And we know that President Biden according to my colleague, he spent a lot of time yesterday finessing that portion specifically of the speech. He knew this was going to be the best opportunity to make the case to Americans over the noise of Republicans who oppose the tax increases that it is about paying their fair share to pay for programs that will benefit the country as a whole.

We heard the White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki continuing to make that case today as well. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: His promise to the American people is that people who are in the 99 percent of people who are making less than that are not going to have their taxes go up. What he looked at is the president of all the country is how to have the smallest impact on the smallest number of people. And he thinks people making that amount of money can afford to pay a little bit more so that we can invest in the next generation, invest in childcare, in paid leave, things people need across the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And, Kate, the president will continue to make that case today as he heads to Atlanta where he's holding a drive in rally.

One other thing we heard from the president yesterday he is was framing the issues, including these trillions of dollars in spending as matters of domestic importance and also in terms of national security, and the global competition between democracies and autocracies.

Kate, over the last several days, I spent time with the national security adviser Jake Sullivan, Mike Donilon, a top adviser to the president and what they've been telling me is that this is something that President Biden is framing of autocracy versus democracy, is something he sees as central to the mission as president of the United States. He believes that the United States and the world really are at an inflection point and history will judge the United States as well as his presidency over how he is able to answer this question of can democracy work in the 21st century and compete with these autocracies?

It is something that is on his mind constantly, I'm told. He brings it up in all kinds of meetings whether it is talking to the team of NASA engineers who launched that mission to Mars, or if he is talking about car batteries, electronic vehicle batteries in a meeting at the White House as it was described to me last week.

So, it's something the president very much focused on and we heard that come through in the speech last night, as he made this closing pitch for the trillions of dollars of investments here in the U.S. -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, over and over again. Jeremy had great reporting on this. You should all check it out. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

So there is also this today. A major move by the Justice Department against Donald Trump's long time attorney Rudy Giuliani. Federal investigators escalating a criminal investigation that has been on going into Giuliani in a big way now -- an FBI raid of his home in New York City seizing some of his belongings. This is all about his dealings with Ukraine.

Joining me right now is CNN's Paula Reid, who's been following all of the details here.

Paula, what more you are learning about the raid, about his investigation?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, CNN has learned that in addition to the raid of his home, federal agents also searched his Park Avenue office where they seized a computer belonging to one of his executive assistants, and I learned that they also served that assistant with a subpoena to appear before a grand jury next month, signaling that Mr. Giuliani's legal problems are far from over.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REID (voice-over): Federal investigators conducted a raid at Rudy Giuliani's home and office in New York City Wednesday, seizing electronic devices from former President Donald Trump's personal attorney.

PREET BHARARA, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: It's a very aggressive step. I know the folks at the SDNY. They would only do something like this if they believed very strongly based on the facts and the law that there is something worthwhile for pursuing.

REID: An attorney for Rudy Giuliani tells CNN that search warrant was related to a investigation into possible foreign lobbying violations, especially communications between Giuliani and right-wing columnist John Solomon.

[11:05:08]

Solomon wrote op-eds about many of the pro Trump and anti-Biden conspiracy theories for "The Hill" that were peddled by Giuliani. After review, "The Hill" found flaws in Solomon's columns on Ukraine, including a failure to provide key disclosures.

Giuliani denies any wrongdoing and has not yet been charged.

His son argues this was politically motivated.

ANDREW GIULIANI, RUDY GIULIANI'S SON: This is disgusting. This is absolutely absurd. And it's the continued politicization of the Justice Department that we have seen.

REID: This raid brings into stark focus Giuliani's actions in Ukraine under intense scrutiny since 2019. Giuliani has been under scrutiny regarding whether he lobbied Ukrainian officials to open an investigation into then-presidential candidate Joe Biden while working as an attorney for former President Trump.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, "CUOMO PRIME TIME": Did you ask the Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden?

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: No, actually, I didn't.

CUOMO: You never asked anything about Joe Biden?

GIULIANI: The only thing I asked about Joe Biden is to get to the bottom of how it was that Lutsenko, who was appointed --

CUOMO: Right.

GIULIANI: -- dismissed the case against AntAC -- CUOMO: So you did ask Ukraine to look into Joe Biden?

GIULIANI: Of course I did.

CUOMO: You just said you didn't.

REID: The former president allegedly threatened to withhold military aid to Ukraine and withheld a White House visit for the newly elected Ukrainian president in order to further their efforts, the main focus of Trump's first impeachment trial.

Investigators also want to know if Giuliani acted as an illegal lobbyist on behalf of Ukrainian officials. For example, Giuliani's insistence that the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch be fired. Trump ultimately did eventually fire the well-respected ambassador.

MARIE YOVANOVITCH, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Our Ukraine policy has been thrown into disarray and shady interests the world over have learned how little it takes to remove an American ambassador who does not give them what they want.

REID: Two Ukrainian associates of Giuliani's were indicted in 2019 on several charges, including illegally funneling foreign money to pro- Trump political groups. Igor Fruman and Lev Parnes allegedly helped introduced Giuliani to Ukrainian officials, both have pleaded not guilty.

Parnes spoke out against his former associate, saying that everything he did was at the direction of Giuliani and for former President Donald Trump's political future.

LEV PARNAS, FORMER ASSOCIATE TO RUDY GIULIANI: That was the most important thing was for him to stay on for another four years and keep the fight going. I mean, there was no other reason for doing it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID (on camera): Former President Trump weighed in earlier today on the Giuliani investigation and just as he did when he was in the White House and was repeatedly asked about his personal attorney's unusual activities, the former president vigorously defended Giuliani as a great patriot and said he believes what happened yesterday was unfair -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Paula, thank you.

We do want to turn now to the unfolding crisis that's playing out in India. The tragedy there is becoming honestly difficult to describe. The best way to do it is simply through the images that are coming out of India.

Hospitals are totally overwhelmed. They are facing shortages of life saving supplies, even oxygen. Crematoriums are overrun, desperately trying to keep up with the never ending line of bodies that they see. They're reporting now more than 379,000 new cases of coronavirus there

in just a single day. The death toll appears to be wildly undercounted at this point. So much so they're now being forced to carry out mass cremations in public parks and parking lots.

CNN's Sam Kiley is on the ground for us in New Delhi.

Sam, just describe what you have been watching all day, reporting on all day, and what we're looking at behind you now.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, I'm at the Seepamuri crematorium right at the end of the day. In fact, it's a part of the day which would normally be closed, closed to us and the public and closed to the dead. But it is the dead who continue to burn here, just as they had earlier in the day to queue their loved ones, or people representing them had to join a queue, take tickets and wait in line on gurneys where they racked up, they were treated with great respect but they were queuing so that they could be burned, cremated here.

Now, earlier on, about 10 minutes ago, I'm talking, there were 50 fires burning. This is actually the overspill, Kate, from the main crematorium, the traditional one which is just on the other side of this wall here. They've now been able to go back to using that. So, they started the day that side of the wall.

[11:10:00]

They moved across to here. And now they're going back the other side.

Now they reckon at the beginning of the day they thought they were going to be dealing with 150 people. I can tell you that figure, they don't know how many they dealt with, but I've been here most of the day and it's certainly in excess of that. Other Delhi, the figures are about at least 600 people dying every day from the COVID-19 virus.

But there is an assumption here both in terms of the numbers for infections and the numbers for people dying of the COVID-19 infection, of the COVID-19 virus, that these figures are woefully underreported. People are dying at home, not being counted.

And, of course, the testing capabilities here are also being overwhelmed. Most people, Kate, are dying as a result of as asphyxiation. They're simply dying through lack of oxygen. So, that reason, there is a massive international effort lead by the United States donating a hundred million dollars worth of equipment, but also many European countries, Britain led the charge, trying to get oxygen into India to keep India breathing, Kate.

BOLDUAN: It's -- it's hard to describe as you are just what you're seeing around you. We can see especially as night has set in, you can really see the smoke that is just en enveloping you and your team. We can see it. But how does it feel?

KILEY: Well, Kate, it's kind of you to ask. But I don't really care about how I feel. I think what really matters is that whatever my shortness of breath is maybe a consequence of breathing in in some smoke, nothing can compare to what the people who are seeing their last rites served here went through in the last few days.

We've seen queues of vehicles with oxygen bottles resting next to them and pipes going into people. Some of them breathing their last breath on the back of rickshaws. There are people on the ground in hotels. People are dying at home without any treatment at all. People that are three to a bed.

The whole public health service here has been overwhelmed, Kate, and it's been overwhelmed. And this is what Indians are telling me, not that I'm saying to them, as it were.

Indians are saying it's been overwhelmed for two reasons. One is government was complacent with regards to the COVID-19 pandemic, believing a couple months ago they achieved victory. Some kind of herd immunity had been achieved.

And above all, because they favored political campaigning over maintaining the lockdowns to protect people. So, there's been tens of thousands of people attending political rallies. There's even a voting going on in at least one state today.

A lot of election results due to be counted over the next coupling weeks. All of this involves super spreader events. And on top of that, you had the Hindu festival of Kumbh Mela on the Ganges River in which over two million people participated.

All as part Narendra Modi's enthusiasm for Hindu nationalism. The results of that are a public health system and a country that has a space program that is overwhelmed, and the results of that is that -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Sam, earlier today I just saw a cart load and cart loads of wood that they were bringing in because it's, as you said, people are in queue. They're waiting in line to cremate their loved ones. Have you had a chance to -- I don't know, speak with the families or speak with the people that are now tasked with -- I can't imagine what they're having to deal with, just having to -- they're burning them in just right behind you.

KILEY: Yeah. I mean, the third pile down over there, I spoke to the gentleman who set that -- who built the fire. He was assisted by workers here. He was on his own.

He collected his friend from the hospital where he had died because his friend's family were too ill with COVID-19 to look after his friend or even collect the body. He then arranged for the cremation. He waited through the day to do it.

Lit the fire. Helped build the fire. And he said farewell to his friend.

He was in one some ways one of the luckier ones because he was actually able here to say the last rites. Many people here have been buried without last rites. They are being treated. There are prayers being set over them. They are treated with great respect.

They're not keen on talking because they've been rushing backwards and forwards. Even the mayor of New Delhi has called for extra wood to be delivered. There are very large piles of it against the wall here in the crematorium -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: The death and tragedy is on a horrifying scale. They're reporting on right now. They don't even know yet. There's just too much going on.

Sam, thank you for being there, and thank you for your reporting.

That's unbelievable.

Coming up for us still this hour, what happens now after a judge rules the bodycam footage of the shooting of Andrew Brown Jr. will not be publicly released. Andrew Brown's son joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:19:23]

BOLDUAN: Back now to the Justice Department's major move against Donald Trump's long time attorney. The FBI raided Rudy Giuliani's home and seized some of his belongings yesterday. In doing so, escalating the criminal investigation into Giuliani over his dealings with Ukraine while he was working for President Trump.

Joining me right now is Andrew McCabe, CNN senior law enforcement analyst, of course, a former deputy director of the FBI.

It's good to see you, Andy.

What -- what do they have to present to a judge to get that search warrant? Like what can we glean from this?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Kate, you can glean that they not only satisfied what you have to present to the judge which is basically, you have to show the judge that you have probable cause to believe that there is evidence of a crime in the location that you are searching.

[11:20:10]

So, clearly, the judge agreed that there was probable cause to believe that and sign a warrant.

But even before they could go get the warrant signed, they had to have some very tough conversations in the Department of Justice, to show the highest levels of the Justice Department that it was worth searching an attorney's home and office to find criminal evidence -- evidence of criminal conduct.

BOLDUAN: That's what I was going do ask you. The fact they took this step against an attorney, let alone a president's -- the former president's attorney is significant here. Can you explain why? MCCABE: It really is. You know, the justice system has great respect

for the relationship between the attorneys and clients. It is, of course, privileged and the communications between the attorneys and their clients cannot be -- you can't compel those communications or reveal them in any way.

So you have to go over a very, very high bar to convince the Justice Department that it's worth the effort and the legal risk of executing a search warrant at an attorney's home or office. In this case, we're talking about the former -- maybe current attorney to the former president of the United States. That is an incredibly tough case to make. They clearly made it. And then presented their case to the judge and that's how it got yesterday.

BOLDUAN: Because the key question is Giuliani being Trump's attorney, attorney-client privilege, obviously we heard of that so often. And where is the line here? I mean, it's clearly something they considered extensively before they would move in this direction.

MCCABE: That's right. So what they'll have to do first is everything that they have taken in the course of the search warrants will have to first be revealed by what they call a Taint Team. So, those are prosecutors and agents who are not connected to the prosecution in any way. And they will remove from that material anything that could be covered by the attorney-client privilege.

And what's left will go to the investigative team. What the investigative team is looking for is not communications between Giuliani and Trump because that's likely privilege. They're looking for communications between Giuliani and other people. Maybe the people he was meeting with in Ukraine, people like Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman who he may have been contracting with and have financial transactions with.

So there is a lot of potential evidence there that would not come under the attorney-client privilege.

BOLDUAN: If this -- if this happened yesterday, what would the next step in the investigation look like?

MCCABE: So, the next step is obviously that process of going through everything that they've collected, first to review it for privilege and later to consider it as evidence. And that's going to take a while.

But we also got a hint from Paula's reporting earlier that they are also serving grand jury subpoenas on other people who could be key witnesses, like Rudy --

BOLDUAN: Yeah, an assistant, right.

MCCABE: The assistant, right.

So she'll be coming in front of the grand jury, I guess in, a month from now. And that is an opportunity to really get someone on the record in front of a grand jury to build that criminal case. So it's -- this is going to take quite some time. But there is -- it's clear they're not leaving any rock unturned.

BOLDUAN: No kidding. Good to see you. Thank you for coming in.

MCCABE: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up, President Biden laying out ambitious plans to Congress but also key senators are saying they're not buying it. Where do Democrats go from here?

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:28:31]

BOLDUAN: Any moment now, President Biden will be heading to Georgia. He's going to be taking off and heading to Georgia. When he hits the ground, he got a big day planned.

This all comes on the heels of his first major address to Congress. And he is now turning his focus to trying to sell the sweeping changes to government policy and its huge price tag to the American people that he laid out in that speech.

Already though, it is clear just after last night's speech that president faces an uphill battle in Congress with what he is proposing.

CNN's Manu Raju just spoke with Democratic Senator Joe Manchin.

And Manu is joining me now.

Manu, what did the senator tell you?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he does have concerns and he wants to scrutinize exactly how this agenda will come forward.

Joe Biden laid out a very expansive view of the government, trillions of dollars in new spending programs that he argues will prop up the economy. But he has to get that through the Senate, including the 50/50 Senate with Joe Manchin, the powerful West Virginia Democrat has a key role.

And he made clear he has concerns with the price tag. He has concerns with some of the tax increases. And he also wants to make sure they work with Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Are you concerned about this push for a more expansive government?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): Almost certainly, yeah, I am. But I want to see the details as we talked before. But we can't over -- overreach to the point to where we stymie investments, we stymie basically growth for 2022, '23, '24 and on. So, we're going to look at all that.

RAJU: And when you look at the overall price tag of all these proposals, I mean --

MANCHIN: That's a lot. That's a lot.

(CROSSTALK)

MANCHIN: We're talking trillions and trillions of dollars.

Here's the thing, we got $1.9 trillion that hasn't even gone out the door yet. We just passed, American Rescue Plan.

RAJU: And it needs to be fully paid for?