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New Details About How Vote Expelling Rep. Liz Cheney From House GOP Leadership Will Go Down Wednesday; Interview With Del. Stacey Plaskett (D-VI); FDA Authorizes Pfizer's COVID-19 Vaccine For 12 to 15-Year-Olds; President Biden Assures There Won't Be Run On Gas Despite Shutdown; Caitlyn Jenner: "I've Always Followed Politics"; Brutal Weekend Across The Country With Shootings From New York City To California, Arizona And Colorado. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired May 10, 2021 - 20:00   ET


ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Of course, the public hasn't seen any of it, not a single frame, and tomorrow, the family will not get full transparency.

The Judge ordered the Sheriff's Office to blur the Deputies' faces and of course, there are hours of footage from all the different cameras.

Attorneys for the Brown family have called Brown's death an execution. We will find out what's actually on the tape.

Thanks for joining us. "AC360" starts now.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Good evening, John Berman here, in for Anderson, and we are following multiple breaking news stories this evening.

New details about how the vote expelling Congresswoman Liz Cheney from House Republican leadership will go down on Wednesday, including surprising news about who may call the vote.

Also breaking news on the COVID front, a major decision from the F.D.A. pertaining to an unvaccinated segment of the population that could boost efforts to attain herd immunity. We're talking about our kids, or mine, literally.

We also have a lengthy sit down with perhaps the most high-profile Republican candidate running in the California recall election, former Olympian, turned reality TV star, Caitlyn Jenner.


DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you believe that the election was stolen?

CAITLYN JENNER (R), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE FOR CALIFORNIA: No, I believe in the system. But I believe in the -- what we need to do in the future is -- we are a Democratic Republic. We need to have integrity in our election system.

I'm not going to go in the past. You know, we're in a post Trump era and they still keep talking about it.

BASH: Are we though?

JENNER: But we are in a post Trump era.

BASH: I don't think he believes that.

JENNER: We have moved forward.


BERMAN: A lot to unpack tonight. Let's start with the breaking news and the drama unfolding with the House Republican leadership vote. Our Jamie Gangel joins us with some new breaking details. Also with us, our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger.

Jamie, you're learning more about how this vote is expected to go on, on Wednesday, as well as how Congresswoman Liz Cheney feels about all of this. What can you tell us?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, what I think not a lot of people realize is what does the conference chair do? Liz Cheney is the conference chair. That means she is running the conference on Wednesday morning, which means it is very likely that she could be the one to call the vote to oust herself, which is either awkward, or maybe a badass power play depending on how you look at it.

I'm also told by sources close to Cheney that she is not taking this vote personally. She actually sees this as a vote on her colleagues in the Republican Party. Are they going to vote for the truth? Are they going to vote for rule of law? For democracy? Or are they back to sticking with Donald Trump -- John.

BERMAN: Jamie, do you have reporting on how Liz Cheney actually feels if she wants to call the vote and will this ballot be a secret ballot like it was in February?

GANGEL: So I don't know if she wants to be the one to call it, but that really could happen. The votes are normally a voice vote, the yeas and nays. However, if someone asks for a secret ballot and gets five people to second that, it will be a secret ballot.

We don't know which way it's going to go, but considering what we've seen thus far, I don't think this is going to be on the record. I think it will be a secret ballot.

BERMAN: So, Gloria, there's a little bit of a wrinkle tonight also. CNN's Manu Raju reporting that some members of the Freedom Caucus, that conservative wing, far, far wing may want to delay the vote on Cheney's replacement for Elise Stefanik because they find her to be too moderate.

You've been talking to Republicans in the House, what are they telling you?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: First of all, be careful what you wish for. Here you have a true conservative, Liz Cheney, you know, given great ratings by all conservative groups to be replaced potentially buy Stefanik, who is known as a moderate, and now is running to be the head of the conference, which is the policy group for the Republican Party.

But the Republicans I'm talking to say that's really not what this is about, of course. This isn't about policy, and they also say this isn't about the substance of what she believes about the election because a lot of them privately will say to you, yes, you know, she has a point.

What they are talking about is, and it's so parochial is how she has embarrassed Kevin McCarthy. Imagine that. How he was so good to her and treated her so well and supported her when there was the last secret ballot which she won by two to one and if you're a member of the leadership, you ought to go with the flow. You should not make any waves.

And I had one person say to me, "Sometimes your friends are too brave for their own good. You don't have to prove you're right every time."


BERMAN: I mean, he just wrote that letter, too, saying as much, but this is basically Republicans telling you, Gloria, that she is making Kevin McCarthy feel bad.

BORGER: Right.

BERMAN: About the big lie.

BORGER: How dare she? How dare she? Yes, how dare she cross him and I'm emphasizing she there in case you didn't notice. How dare she cross him?

He was so supportive to her. She is outraged. And Jamie knows this better than anybody, she is outraged by what she has seen McCarthy do, flip flopping all over the place and she has every right to speak her mind because it is that important.

BERMAN: It wasn't clear that Kevin McCarthy's feelings were so badly hurt, or that he was so sensitive about this stuff. Jamie, where does this go from here? How do you see this playing out?

GANGEL: So let me just say about Kevin McCarthy, he is also concerned about looking bad with one person and that is Donald Trump.

BORGER: Right.

GANGEL: At the end of the day, he is doing Donald Trump's bidding, because Donald Trump cannot stand that Liz Cheney who voted to impeach him and has stuck to her guns. I think where this goes next is Kevin McCarthy may win the battle on

Wednesday. Liz Cheney expects the vote to go against her and has from the very beginning. But Liz Cheney is in this for the war. She is going to keep campaigning, she feels this is about democracy, about the future, and about making sure that Donald Trump is not running in 2024.

So this is Liz Cheney unleashed. This is just the beginning.

BERMAN: Is she whipping this at all? I mean, does she expect -- what -- she had, I guess, 40 plus votes against her last time. Does she think she'll get 40 votes in her defense this time?

GANGEL: I don't think she has any idea what the vote count is. I am told she is not whipping it because she feels this is about principle over politics. So she is not whipping the vote. To the best of my knowledge, she does not know how the vote is going to go.

BERMAN: So Gloria, Jamie was talking about the long game that Liz Cheney is playing here. There is a new video out released by the group, Accountable G.O.P., which features Liz Cheney speaking out against the former President. What do you think of Liz Cheney's long game here? Do you think this is something that she will carry forward all the way to 2022? Where do you see you're going with this?

BORGER: Look, if she weren't serious about this, John, she wouldn't be doing this, because she is putting herself on the sacrificial altar here and saying, look, I believe in something so strongly that you can use me as an example, and do whatever -- do whatever you want.

This is something I don't believe she is going to give up on. I don't believe that others in the Republican Party are going to give up on, for example, Mitt Romney just came out and supported her today. We know that Adam Kinzinger is there.

They're not the majority in the party right now. We know that. But I do believe that they think democracy is important enough to be speaking the truth about what occurred.

BERMAN: No matter what someone's feelings might be.

Gloria Borger, Jamie Gangel, great to see you both. Thank you so much.

I'm joined now by Delegate Stacy Plaskett, who represents the U.S. Virgin Islands in Congress and was an impeachment manager for Democrats earlier this year when Donald Trump was impeached for inciting the insurrection. And Congresswoman Plaskett, you know, if I had told you, when you were an impeachment manager on the Senate floor, that three months later, the big lie on the election would be so pervasive that Republicans would lose their jobs in leadership for not supporting it. What would you have said?

DEL. STACEY PLASKETT (D-VI): I'd say, I'm not surprised.

BERMAN: Really? Why? PLASKETT: You know, well, I mean, you watched during the impeachment,

that individuals who agreed with us and even Kevin McCarthy, who had a colossal fallout argument, person match with the President, on the day of the insurrection on January 6th, went to the floor to say that he was responsible. And then several days later, mea culpa, he was following the trail of Donald Trump going to Mar-a-Lago and asking for forgiveness.

If that's what the leadership was doing right there several days after the insurrection, and then on the impeachment floor, you had senators who agreed privately that we had in fact made our case, but that they would not vote with us, and then you have Mitch McConnell, basically summarizing our opening and closing statements in agreement with us and then saying why he was not going to support it.

Of course, this is of no -- this is not a surprise.


PLASKETT: The Republicans are following what their message is. They have decided that their message is obstructionism, is a big lie, is divisiveness, is tribalism, is in some instances dog whistling, and in some corners of the Republican conference, outright white supremacy, anti-Semitism and racism.

BERMAN: Do you feel as if the big lie on the election is spreading? Do you feel as if more people, more Republicans believe it today even than may have believed in early February?

PLASKETT: I'm not necessarily sure if that's the case, I do believe that the Republican Party itself, those in elected positions are more concerned about retaining their power than speaking the truth, more concerned about being a part of the G.O.P. than they are about the direction of this country.

We've seen this time and time again, they have in the instance of President Biden putting forth the American Rescue Plan, voting against the Rescue Plan, and then each one in their own district touting the benefits of it.

We'll probably see the thing -- same thing on the American Jobs Plan, that they have just become a party of obstruction of no-ism. They are not a party that wants to get to yes, that wants to support the American people. They want to support themselves and their quest for power.

BERMAN: You know, Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger said of his own party, he said, right now it's basically the Titanic. We're like, in the middle of this slow sink. That was the quote there. What does that mean?

You know, you can be a Democrat who opposes Republicans on policy, but still think the two-party system is important. What does it mean for American democracy, not the Democratic Party, but democracy if the Republican Party is in a slow sink? PLASKETT: Well, what it means and the trouble it is for democracy is

not that particularly a party is being divided over ideology and direction, which, you know, happens through generations and through time.

But the problem that is happening within the Republican Party is that divisiveness is what is over democracy itself, over what makes us America. Are we going to be -- continue to be a country of laws? A country that has full fair elections? That expands the amount of people that are able to vote? That allows new ideas and innovation to be a part of our country? That tries to uplift the middle class?

Or are we going to hold on to our own power, whether it means stopping the very things that the founders fought so hard for? That being elections, that being the ability of all of us to pursue happiness.

And we're seeing that the Republicans that is the fight that's going on within their party, and that's why the demise of the party is troubling because it is those who are fighting to retain that democracy it appears to be on the minority side right now, at least within the leadership of that party.

BERMAN: Delegate Stacey Plaskett, we do appreciate talking to you. Thank you for your time.

PLASKETT: Thank you.

BERMAN: Still to come tonight, our breaking news on coronavirus and what the F.D.A. did today that could potentially expand the Pfizer vaccinations to millions of Americans.

And later, a wide-ranging interview with someone who has been in the public eye for decades, first as an Olympic gold medalist then reality TV show and now a Republican candidate in California's recall election. Dana Bash interviews Caitlyn Jenner when 360 continues.



BERMAN: More breaking news, the F.D.A. has expanded the Emergency Use Authorization for the Pfizer vaccine to include those 12 to 15 years of age. That's 17 million new people eligible.

Now, this is the first time a vaccine has been authorized for use in younger teens and adolescents and the shots will come once the C.D.C. also signs off.

Perspective now from Dr. Leana Wen, a former Baltimore Health Commissioner and CNN medical analyst.

Now, Dr. Wen, look, this is phenomenal news for me. I have two 14- year-olds, I could not be more excited about this. Walk us through how this works and some of the considerations, right? Will the teenagers receive the same doses of the Pfizer vaccine as adults do? What do the trials show about the vaccine in this age group? DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, John, I share

your excitement and relief. As a parent myself, I really want our children to be able to experience the benefit of these extraordinary vaccines the way that we as adults do.

So in terms of your question, the dose is the same for the 12 to 15 year old category as it is for 16 year olds and above. The study thus far by Pfizer found that they had more than 2,200 participants, and they found that there were 18 cases of COVID-19 during their trial. All 18 cases were in the placebo group. That means that nobody who received the vaccine ended up contracting coronavirus.

So this appears to be 100 percent efficacious in this 12 to 15-year- old group. Great safety profile as well. And I just know of so many kids in this category, this 12 to 15-year-old group who are so eager to get back to normal and have sleepovers and birthday parties and other aspects of pre-pandemic normal once they are fully vaccinated.

BERMAN: Because these are the kids, I mean, these are the kids who were out there doing as many things or want to be as many things as they possibly can. So this will really change things.

What about younger children under the age of 12?


WEN: The F.D.A. actually just made an announcement that they're going to be convening their external committee next month in June, to be looking at recommendations for the two to 11-year-old group.

Now, we don't have data yet from this group, so we can't say for sure. This group is certainly going to be trickier because the doses have to be adjusted. You can imagine a two-year-old is not going to get the same dose as a 16-year-old, and so they will review safety and efficacy at that point, but I know that I'm certainly very excited as I have a four-year-old who is not yet able to be able to be vaccinated.

BERMAN: So Dr. Fauci said this weekend that as more people are vaccinated, he does expect that guidance on indoor mask use will change. What are you expecting or hoping the C.D.C. will decide on this point and one, because, look, you've been critical of the C.D.C. and Biden administration officials for not being aggressive enough.

I interviewed Xavier Becerra this morning, the H.H.S. Secretary, and he didn't give a very clear answer on this and I know you didn't like that.

WEN: That's right. I think there are two things the C.D.C. can actually do right now. The first is to give very clear guidance about fully vaccinated people in formal settings. Right now, they are already saying they can have dinner parties together at home.

But why not also say in theaters and workplaces that if everybody is fully vaccinated, they can remove masks? You don't need distancing in that environment if there is proof of vaccination for everyone. The second thing is, they really need to give better guidance on what

happens by region. We're not talking about reaching herd immunity or reaching a high level of vaccination for the country. At this point, we really need to break it down by community, and so we really need to hear, what is the level of vaccination for the community? And I think that would give a lot of incentive for individuals to get vaccinated, too.

BERMAN: Dr. Leana Wen, always a pleasure speaking to you. Thanks so much.

WEN: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: So the administration also dealing with a national security incident tonight. This afternoon, President Biden said he is taking steps to make sure there is not a run on gasoline after a cyberattack forced the shutdown of a major U.S. pipeline that delivers nearly half the gas and diesel consumed on the East Coast.

The ransomware attack and shutdown could potentially leave the region with widespread fuel shortages affecting everywhere there is a pump from gas stations to major airports.

Our chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto joins us now with the latest. Jim, what are you hearing from your sources?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is really an unprecedented attack in terms of scale. Other state actors, non-state actors have tried to access U.S. infrastructure before, they've had some success. State actors have planted weapons, cyber weapons inside these systems before, but to have an attack like this that actually shut something down is significant and it shows vulnerabilities.

I mean, it may very well be true that the system will be able to recover in time, so you don't have a shortage in the northeast of gasoline and other kinds of fuel. But just the fact that you have an American President saying, I'm going to do everything I can to prevent a run on fuel shows you one, the seriousness of this, but also; two, that a significant vulnerability has been exposed here.

Now, the company itself is also saying they will have the system up and running by the end of the week and the company did a lot of things right here in terms of responding to this.

But the lesson here is about vulnerability, and what more needs to be done to prevent the next one.

BERMAN: So the Russian government denies any involvement in the attack. Does the U.S. -- do all levels of the U.S. government buy this denial? And what more are you learning, Jim, about this group, Darkside?

SCIUTTO: So first of all, ignore everything the Russian government says, zero credibility. You know, zero credibility on something like this. They denied interference in the election before, but it is interesting, the Biden administration itself is saying, we don't have evidence that the Russian government is behind this attack. But there's meaning in those words, right?

This is a Russian group. It is a criminal group, a hacking group. It's not a part of Russian military intelligence. That said, it is operating from Russia. And I've spoken to multiple both experts, but also national security officials who make the point that these groups don't operate in Russia without the knowledge of the Russian government.

And for an attack on this scale to happen, many believe that they would need the tacit approval of the government, right? Because there's history here. Russia has used hacking groups before to carry out attacks on foreign adversaries, including the U.S.

So you know, it may be one thing that this was not ordered by Putin and directed through the Kremlin, but the fact that it came from Russia is significant.

BERMAN: Very quickly, what exactly is a ransomware attack? And how is that distinctive from a different cyberattack?

SCIUTTO: Let's see. It's good that we're talking about this, right, because these attacks are happening every day, every single day, state, city, local governments, and private companies having these attacks every day.

Private groups basically get into someone's network. They say, I can shut this thing down or they shut it down, and say, I won't turn it back on until you pay me money.


SCIUTTO: Until you pay me a ransom, or steal a bunch of information and I'm going to sell this on the Dark Web until you pay me money.

What is little known, John, is a lot of companies are paying these ransoms every day. It's good business. It works.

BERMAN: Jim Sciutto, it's fascinating. Devious, but fascinating. Thank you for explaining it like that.

Perspective now on the investigation from Andrew McCabe, former deputy F.B.I. director and CNN law enforcement analyst. So, you know, Andy, how does this stack up against some of the worst cyber warfare scenarios that the F.B.I. and other agencies that have tried to prepare for it?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: John, this one is going to be right up there. We're going to be talking about this for quite some time. It's an interesting combination of criminal actors who appear to be plying their trade simply for profit motive, but they've struck in a way that really grabbed the attention of a major player in our energy sector.

I would suspect that they targeted this particular player, because they knew that if they grabbed their information, if they were able to shut down their IT systems, there would be so much at stake, i.e. the continued functioning of the gas pipeline that the company, Colonial Pipeline would have to respond quickly, it would likely pay to get access to their system back.

So I'm not sure that it was a geopolitical strategic move, but it was one that kind of had those sorts of implications. So we're really seeing the criminal realm run into the almost the political realm.

BERMAN: And of course, the target here was a private company. It's a private company that controls something that all of us use, so it has a very public or universal feel to it. But private companies, what are the vulnerabilities there? Even President Biden talked about this today.

MCCABE: Sure. So it's really important for viewers to understand that in this country, our critical infrastructure is owned and operated and maintained and protected by the private sector entities that own it. These are not government entities, they are private companies. They can, you know -- they can employ the greatest and best cyber defenses or have none at all, those are their own decisions.

And so I think that's the exposed vulnerability here. People are realizing that in many ways, the fate of our lifestyles, of our economy, of all those sorts of things sit in the hands of private companies, who in many cases have a strong incentive to keep this sort of activity when they're hacked, when they're victimized, very private, and not report them at all.

In this case, obviously, the company did the right thing.

BERMAN: So moments ago, Jim Sciutto warned us not to take Russia's word for it, when they say that they were not involved in the attack, but the Biden administration, the President himself said that he sees no direct line at this point between Russia and Darkside, the group carrying it out, but this group is presumably based in Russia. So what does this all mean?

MCCABE: That's right. Well, a couple of things. You can count on the fact that every intelligence agency in our vast community is looking for that evidence that the President spoke up today. So we don't have evidence yet that the Russian government was behind this or directing it, but I'm sure they're looking for it now.

The second thing I would point out is like the point that you just made, people should think about this in terms of piracy. We would never permit another nation to shelter a group of pirates who would go out and raid our ships as they passed, and victimize our private seafaring vessels. That's essentially what Russia is doing here.

They allowed this group to exist in Russia, to work in Russia, to target enemies of Russia. So does essentially with the kind of a wink and a nod, the Russians, I am confident, know what this group is up to, the fact that they're giving them shelter is a violation of the normal political order that we should be looking for.

BERMAN: Andrew McCabe, always a pleasure to speak with you. Thanks so much.

MCCABE: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Coming up, an in-depth discussion with Caitlyn Jenner, a political novice running in California's recall election to replace Governor Gavin Newsom. That's when we return.



BERMAN: Recapping or breaking news from earlier in the program. The FDA has expanded the use of the Pfizer COVID vaccine on an emergency use authorization to include 12 to 15-year-olds. This is the overall numbers show the battle against the pandemic is gaining more and more traction. Just over 44 percent of the American adult population is now fully vaccinated who even as some days less people are rolling up their sleeves to get a vaccine.

Still, health officials in Los Angeles County California said today that they expect to reach herd immunity among adults and the oldest teenagers by July.

The California's governor, Gavin Newsom is facing a recall election with some voters upset about how he handled the pandemic. CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash sat down with one of his high- profile opponents Caitlyn Jenner for a discussion about her politics, her campaign and what she plans to do if elected.


DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pulling out an air compressor to pump her own tires, not your typical celebrity moment. Yet Caitlyn Jenner's life is anything but typical.

CAITLYN JENNER, CELEBRITY: Before I was flat on the bottom.

BASH (voice-over): An Olympic gold medal for the decathlon in 1976. An iconic spot on the Wheaties box.

JENNER: Ate a lot of Wheaties.

BASH (voice-over): A reality TV dad in Keeping Up With The Kardashians. A transition to Caitlyn with a Vanity Fair cover reveal.

JENNER: It's one of the first ones.

BASH (voice-over): Now, she's running for governor of California and a race to recall Democrat Gavin Newsom. Jenner invited us to her 12-acre hilltop ranch in Malibu and explained why.

JENNER: During COVID, it was horrible. I woke up every morning like what do I do today? There's absolutely nothing, you can't even go to a restaurant. You know? And it just drives me crazy. When I started thinking about this, because I've always followed politics. BASH (voice-over): But her political involvement was limited. She backed Donald Trump in 2016, but broke from him two years later, citing harsh LGBTQ policies.

(on-camera): What kind of training do you have to be governor of California?

JENNER: I have been in the entrepreneurial world. You know people think of you been in showbiz. And I think if you have a reality star certainly I've done that but entertainment is a business and you have to run that business.


But I've also done other things. You know, we sold a billion dollars worth of exercise equipment, on television. I've been at aviation companies. I've just always been involved being an entrepreneur, and tried to inspire my children to do the same thing. And they've done very well in that department. And all of those life experiences about and probably the most important thing is being a leader.

BASH (on-camera): This state, this is the fifth largest economy in the world.


BASH (on-camera): You feel qualified to take that on?

JENNER: Yes. Because I'm going to surround myself with some really great people. I had some meetings this week on budget -- with budget people who I will just someone (INAUDIBLE) --

BASH (on-camera): Can you share who you met with?

JENNER: No, we'll just leave it as budget people and believe it there. I don't want to expose anybody. I've had meetings on regulations with the Hoover Institution. And this one guy Lee was just like the best. So smart, been working on regulations in the state for the last 10 years has solutions. I said, oh my god, you're like my new best friend. OK. I learned so much from him in such a short amount of time. But it's people like that, that I feel like I have the ability to try to attract to Sacramento that can make a difference.

BASH (voice-over): Jenner is trying to appeal to Californian to feel overburdened by government regulation and overtaxed.

JENNER: I would freeze taxes. I would freeze regulations. No more regulations. No more taxes. Everybody take a big deep breath. And let's see what we can do.

BASH (on-camera): No more regulations.

JENNER: I didn't say no more. No more -- no, new regulations, a freeze on the regulations that are in place.

BASH (on-camera): You said a freeze on taxes. You mean a freeze on new taxes?

JENNER: No taxes, yes.

BASH (on-camera): Yes. But I don't think Governor Newsom he hasn't put any new taxes in place in years.

JENNER: Yes, but we still need to freeze.

BASH (on-camera): Elon Musk just left California --


BASH (on-camera): -- moved to Texas where there's no state income tax.

JENNER: Right.

BASH (on-camera): But do you think that a billionaire like him should be taxed?

JENNER: I think all Californians don't mind a tax. But they also want it to be fair. OK. I don't think Elon Musk worries about a 5% tax on something as fair. When you start looking at the tax rates in California, how we are taxed. You walk out the door, and you're going to start being taxed.

BASH (on-camera): We'll asked a little bit about national politics.

JENNER: Uh-oh. OK. Remember, I'm running for California.

BASH (on-camera): I know, I know.

JENNER: This is not a national position.

BASH (on-camera): It is not a national position. But you're a national figure.

JENNER: Right.

BASH (on-camera): And you're running, you know, to be a different kind of Republican. So let's talk about that. The former president still claims that the 2020 elections were stolen from him. So let me ask you, do you believe President Biden was duly elected?

JENNER: He is our president. I respect that. I realize there was -- there's a lot of frustration over that election. You know, what, not frustrated over what happened back then. But what have I done? OK, as a citizen, I'm frustrated. And I said, you know what, I want to do something about it.

BASH (on-camera): The then Trump campaign went to court. They filed scores and scores of lawsuits, there was no evidence that there was anything fraudulent. Do you -- are you comfortable with that? Do you believe that the election was stolen?

JENNER: No, I believe in the system. But I believe in the -- what we need to do in the future is we are a democratic republic. We need to have integrity in our election system. I'm not going to go in the past. You know, we're in a post Trump era and they still keep talking --

BASH (on-camera): Are we though?

JENNER: -- about. But we're in a post Trump era.

BASH (on-camera): I don't think he believes that.

JENNER: We have moved forward.

BASH (on-camera): Well, the reason I'm asking you about this is because you are a Republican. And there is a real --

JENNER: I'm kind of yes. (INAUDIBLE) on the Republican side, but yes.

BASH (on-camera): Are you not a Republican?

JENNER: Well, I hate to use -- we'd label everybody.

BASH (on-camera): But what do you like --

JENNER: Well I don't like labels, you know, I'm me. OK. This is how I do it. Just because I have conservative economic philosophy, that's the only thing that the Republicans are kind of on that I'm on. But I don't know. Maybe you call me a libertarian, maybe call me in the middle. I really don't know. Because when it comes to social issues, I'm much more progressive, much more liberal.

BASH (voice-over): California has long been a leader on combating the climate crisis. For years, governors in both parties signed on to aggressive policies to reduce greenhouse gases.


(on-camera): California established an ambitious goal of relying entirely on zero emission energy sources for electricity by 2045. Would you keep that in place?

JENNER: Probably not, I would let the free market determine what -- at what point. I would don't think its government going to come up and say that by 2045, we have to have zero emissions. Technology is what we need to follow. There's a lot of smart people out there trying to get making a zero emissions. And as that technology improves, we will go less and less.

I was in -- I would go 30 years ago, driving to Santa Monica. You couldn't even see the mountains in Pasadena. Every day on through the '70s and '80s, every day on the news, they would have the smog, this is what the smog is. They don't even have those anymore. You can go to Santa Monica, can you see the mountains all the time.

BASH (on-camera): It is not because of the aggressive laws here?

JENNER: We are doing a good job.

BASH (on-camera): So you would keep those in place or you would change it?


BASH (on-camera): Meaning the laws that have been in place here, which are really aggressive in favor of the environment against fossil fuels, probably helped to allow you to see in Santa Monica like you're talking about, would you --


BASH (on-camera): -- keep those in place?

JENNER: Yes. I would keep things in place, but I'm not -- fossil fuel will eventually leave. OK. We are going to have other forms in the next 50 years. OK. Probably may not even be talking about this. We will have another energy source. But for the time being, fossil fuels are around.

Yes, you got to happen.

BASH (voice-over): In an ATV ride around her property --


BASH (voice-over): -- Jenner points out damage from devastating Malibu fires more than two years ago that almost engulfed her house and shows us an empty barn.

JENNER: For the last couple of years, I've had friends that have had rescue horses and needed places for him to stay. And this place is so great for that. Kendall and Kylie have horses and I thought well, maybe they'd want to bring them over here. They haven't done that.

BASH (voice-over): Kendall and Kylie Jenner are two of her 10 children most are reality TV famous, including four Kardashian stepchildren.

(on-camera): Were any of your children going to campaign with you?

JENNER: Here's the deal on them, thank you for so the question.

BASH (on-camera): Yes.

JENNER: My kids are not involved whatsoever with this. You know, I'm totally keep -- I told them, you know, honestly, I told them at the start. And I love my kids, the kids love me and I have a great relationship. But I told them right at the start, I said guys, because they were scared one for my safety, and scared of what the media is going to do.

You know, my family has certainly, you know, been out in the media and they've taken their shots, and they don't need to take any more. And I said, don't even -- I said, I am not going to ask you for one tweet. I'm not going to ask you for one thing.

You guys go live your life. This is my deal. This is my decision to do this. And tell -- I'm going to tell the media, stay away. Don't ask them and I told them just, no comment.

BASH (on-camera): Kim Kardashian, your stepdaughter. She's pretty involved in policy issues of criminal justice reform.

JENNER: I love Kim, and I think she's doing a great job with the criminal justice system. And if I had become governor, I would follow her guidance and that because she has been very, very good on that. And the rehabilitation side of it. But I don't have her involved in a campaign at all whatsoever.

BASH (on-camera): Got it.

JENNER: I can't say we've never discussed it. But she's great. I love Kimberly. She's smart, great businesswoman, and very dedicated, you know, to the doing a better job when it comes to criminal justice. And she would have my ear. I can tell you that when I'm up in Sacramento.

BASH (voice-over): To get to Sacramento, Californians first need to know her positions. Back up at her house. We talked about more.

(on-camera): OK. Immigration.

JENNER: immigration.

BASH (on-camera): California's labor force includes 1.7 5 million undocumented immigrants. Should they have a path to citizenship?

JENNER: I would hope so. I am for legal immigration. OK. What's been happening on the border was honestly one of the reasons I decided to run for governor. I was watching people dying come across the river, kids in cages, whatever you want to call them.

BASH (on-camera): They should have a chance to citizen.

JENNER: Absolutely. Yes, yes, they should. To me, personally, I mean, there's a lot of people but personally, I have met some of the most wonderful people who are immigrants who have come to this country and they are just model citizen. They are just great people and I would fight for them to be, you know, U.S. citizens I think would be the greatest day of their life.


Actually, you know a little trivia here. Drag (ph) 15 years ago, they would have won the signing in of the immigrants, they would show a video of America. And it would end with me a picture at the finish line with the American flag up there.

BASH (voice-over): That image when Jenner won the gold beating back the Soviet Union in the height of the Cold War.

JENNER: Yes, you can take it and open it up. That is an Olympic gold medal. You can take it out.

BASH (on-camera): Wow.

JENNER: Yes. Yes. And it's been in that box ever since I very rarely ever take it out.

BASH (on-camera): Should I take it?

JENNER: Yes, sure.

BASH (voice-over): It is Jenner's fame as an Olympian, and now as a transgender woman that make her position noteworthy when it comes to moves by largely Republican led states to push legislation banning trans girls in sports.

(on-camera): You didn't make your move to become a woman until you were 65 years old.

JENNER: Right.

BASH (on-camera): But had you done it when you were younger? You might not have become the most, you know, famous athlete in the world at the time in 1976. Had you not been able to compete if had you transition younger? So,does that make you think about trans girls and sports a little bit differently when you think about your own experience?

JENNER: Well, I look at it in a couple of ways. And I'll try to do this very briefly. I can't imagine if I would have decided back in '76 that I've always been trapped. Nobody knew it. You know, little Caitlyn lived down deep inside of me. Nobody knew it.

But then all of us the last minute, I'd say, you know what, maybe I shouldn't run the decathlon. I should run the heptathlon. And I'm a girl and I'm going to run the heptathlon. Would that be fair? Absolutely not. It would never have been fair for me to do that. OK.

And so, this is a very complicated but the most important thing for me is we protect women's sports. We can work the other issues out for trans women to compete in sports or truly trans, who grew up trans, and had been trans all their life.

BASH (on-camera): Yes, that's different.

JENNER: It's 100 percent difference. And so, yes, but as far as protecting women's sports, I'm about protecting women's sports. Yes. And that means biologic -- my statement was I don't want biological boys, you know, playing in girls sports.

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): Good evening, everybody.

BASH (voice-over): Republicans say they're pushing to recall Governor Newsom a vote likely to happen this fall, in part because he was too aggressive in shutting down California because of COVID-19 and hypocritical. Going to the five star French Laundry Restaurant as cases of the virus were rising.

(on-camera): What would you have done differently if you were governor when the pandemic hit?

JENNER: You know what, I don't blame any governor or the federal government at the start for what happened. I think it was the right decision to make back on March of 2020 to just close the country down. Let's stop, hold it. Let's see what we got here. As time has gone on, I don't think anybody realized how difficult it would be to open.

BASH (voice-over): So you would have opened things earlier?

JENNER: I would have definitely done my best to open up as quick as possible. What I don't like about the -- this whole COVID and opening back up is the hypocrisy that has been going on. I can't -- you know my restaurant that I like down the street is closed. And it's not me getting a meal. But it's all the employees down there are out of work.

BASH (voice-over): Economic despair is one of the factors driving a huge homeless crisis in California, tent cities everywhere. Just over one and four homeless Americans lives in this state.

JENNER: I enjoy talking to you.

BASH (voice-over): Jenner visited a Salvation Army shelter in East L.A. that is working on the problem holistically.

JENNER: We have to step up, we got to do (INAUDIBLE). Great. All right. Thank you.

BASH (voice-over): From mental health assistance to long term housing.

(on-camera): So how does Governor Jenner build more affordable housing?

JENNER: The biggest problem is you have to change regulations. You have to build a coalition between government and private industry.

BASH (on-camera): So what regulations do you think need to be changed to do that?

JENNER: CEQA which is actually started in 1970, the California Environmental Quality Act by Ronald Reagan and it was great legislation to help with the environment. But over the last 50 years regulations have gone on top, regulations on top. It's like an excuse for an environmentalist to get their point across.


I'm all for the environment, I'm 100% for the environment, but we cannot destroy our state. OK.

BASH (on-camera): So build more on environmentally protected land?

JENNER: Work with, first of all, as far as regulations, I would freeze everything. Take a look at it. These some of these regulations have been on the books since before. I mean, honestly, the fax machine.

BASH (on-camera): How would you address the very big mental health problems that contribute to homelessness?

JENNER: mental health is tough actually. I thought for the longest time I was dealing with mental health issues, but I've been able to resolve that. Everybody has things that they have to go through. You have to have a fair and equitable way to be able to help them. Mental health issues are something that we would work on. We would try to provide programs, work with local organizations. There's only so much Sacramento can do.

This is always good to come down and see you guys here.

BASH (voice-over): Caitlyn Jenner, a newcomer to politics, who admits she has a lot to learn in what she calls the last chapter of her unlikely life.


BERMAN: And Dana Bash joins me now. Dana, there is so much in this. I mean, a really fascinating interview. And yes, I mean, there were some headlines, with Jenner being wishy washy on if Biden won the election fairly and saying we're in a post Trump era, which I'm sure Donald Trump doesn't want to hear.

But to me, the overarching question that I have is if Caitlyn Jenner who was making a serious run, I think, for Governor of California, has spent time on her own policies, the grasp of where she really is, on the issues. How seriously is she taking that?

BASH: Well, the answer is, and I think it was pretty clear, she's working on it. You know, I was trying to find out who she was surrounding herself with on the policy side, we know on the political side, but on the policy side, she mentioned, Lee, her new best friend at the Hoover Institution, but beyond that, she didn't give a lot on the on those issues.

Big Picture, she says that she is and always has been fiscally conservative, but more socially liberal. But on the details, like on the environment, as you heard, and on taxes, for example, it's a work in progress. I think that's a fair thing to say.

BERMAN: Immigration.

BASH: Immigration is another example. I mean, she talked about I asked about a path to citizenship, she said, yes, she is for that, because she believes that people who are undocumented in America and, you know, contributing to society should have a right to stay, but her tweet her -- on her Twitter feed, they were trying to kind of explain it and give the nuance that we know, John, you and I from covering immigration politics for decades, are very hard to square, especially if you're a Republican.

BERMAN: Dana Bash, thank you so much for your reporting.

BASH: Thanks John.

BERMAN: Much more tomorrow morning. We're not done talking about this.

BASH: I'll be back with you in the morning, John.

BERMAN (voice-over): All right. Up next, there were nine mass shootings across America this weekend, nine. There was also gunfire in Times Square in the heart of New York City. The details on all of it when we continue.



BERMAN: Was another brutal weekend across the country with shootings from New York City to California, Arizona and Colorado. According to figures compiled by the Gun Violence Archive, at least 117 people were killed and more than 300 wounded by gunfire in the past 72 hours.

CNN's Miguel Marquez now with a look at what happened in the daily results.


MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Panic and chaos in Times Square the heart of New York City.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shot with a gun three of them. And I think everybody just kind of stopped and was in a shock.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): On Saturday, a gun was pulled as several men fought bystanders two women and a four-year-old girl were hit by gunfire and NYPD officers scene running with a child called her mother in the ambulance.

ALYSSA VOGEL, NYPD: She obviously was in a panic that she just saw her little baby get shot. So I was just trying to calm her down and trying to get her to breathe with me.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): All were expected to survive the New York City shooting happening on a weekend that saw at least nine, nine mass shootings, meaning four or more victims dead or injured nationwide.

In all at least 15 people died another 30 injured since Friday as a result of mass shootings.

In just one weekend, three mass shootings in California one each in Arizona, New Jersey, Maryland, Wisconsin and Missouri and in Colorado, six shot and killed at a birthday party.

JIM SOKOLIK, SPOKESPERSON, COLORADO SPRINGS POLICE: At this point in time, we believe that the individual the suspect respond to the shooting (INAUDIBLE) scene and also deceased.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Investigators say the shooter who took his own life was the boyfriend of one of the women at the party.

Just under two months ago, 10 people were killed at a supermarket in Boulder Colorado by a gunman wielding a military style semi automatic rifle and handgun.

On Friday evening, it was a St. Louis County, Missouri park a neighborhood celebration, then a truck pulled up and someone in it started firing. Two dead, three injured.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was all peaceful and beautiful. And next thing you know fire -- gun fire just erupted.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): In Maryland, it was the suburbs of Baltimore, three dead one injured after a gun and knife wielding man set his own home on fire, then shot and stabbed his neighbors.

In Phoenix, Arizona, one man is dead at least seven more injured after a fight at a hotel.

In Milwaukee, Wisconsin and Newark, New Jersey, four people were injured in each city after a shooting broke out in public on the street.

And In California, three shootings in Los Angeles, one was killed, five more injured. Four were injured outside a nightclub near Sacramento. On the same night, two young men were killed, two others injured in Compton.


Miguel Marquez, CNN, New York.


BERMAN: Just awful. All right, the news continues. So let's hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME."