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Interview With Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA); VA Issues Vaccine Mandate For Health Care Workers; Science Under Attack At Arizona Trump Rally; White House Ramps Up Vaccine Push As Hesitancy Turns To Resistance; Documents Reveal Death Threats And Roadblocks For Govt. Investigators Digging Into The Assassination Of Haiti's President; Trump Ally Pleads Not Guilty To Federal Charges Of Illegal Foreign Lobbying; Final Surfside Collapse Victim Identified, Death Toll At 98. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 26, 2021 - 20:00   ET


ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: And thanks so much for joining us. "AC360" starts now.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Tomorrow, the House Select Committee begins investigating the worst attack on American democracy by Americans since the Civil War. This is not just a look back to the 6th of January, experts on how democracies die have told us on this program that they consider what we saw that day merely one manifestation of an ongoing threat, which only amplifies the need to root out the facts of what actually happened on January 6, and why, to identify who was responsible, what led up to it, what the implications might be for the future of a democracy that's still under considerable strain?

Congressman Adam Schiff who serves on the committee and joins us shortly says that tomorrow's opening session will be fairly limited. One round of questioning and some never before seen video showing what it was like to be a police officer facing the mob.

It was no love fest, as the former President continues to say, not something akin to tourism as one Georgia Republican Congressman claimed. One change though, Wyoming's Liz Cheney is no longer the lone Republican on the panel. This weekend, as you may have heard, House Speaker Pelosi named Illinois Republican Adam Kinzinger to the Committee, he accepted, and today House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy had this to say about it.


QUESTION: You know, some Republicans have been saying that the G.O.P. should play a part in this committee. You could get with them.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Who is that? Adam and Liz? Aren't they kind of like Pelosi Republicans?

(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Well, "Pelosi Republicans," it's a new spin on the

conventional label, which has been to refer to them and a few others as anti-Trump Republicans, which CNN political commentator and conservative, Amanda Carpenter says really short changes their motivations.

She tweeted about Congressman Kinzinger: "Why is he being described as an anti-Trump Republican? He's a pro-democracy Republican who rightly is disgusted by what happened on J6. It's about principles, not people."

As for what it means to be a McCarthy Republican? Well, it seems that it means at least initially seeing the insurrection for exactly what it was and acknowledging exactly who was responsible when the mob was at his door. Then it means maintaining that crystal clarity about an event that may well be taught in schools a century from now for precisely one whole week.


MCCARTHY: The President bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding.

These facts require immediate action by President Trump.


COOPER: Well, that's just what a McCarthy Republican says until of course, he realizes that the former President's base is standing by him, and then that's when a McCarthy Republican shows that what he really cares about is maintaining his own power, forget about principles.

So he quickly backtracks and shows fealty to the former President and then opposes a 9/11-style independent bipartisan commission, because in part, as the headline reads, "It would not study political violence by the left." In other words, that would not be a venue for changing the subject.

Now, this is a panel, as you know, that would have given Democrats and Republicans an equal number of members and was organized almost identically to the 9/11 Commission. Not only that, the contours of it were hammered out in bipartisan talks just days before Congressman McCarthy pulled the rug out from under it, reportedly fearing how it might harm G.O.P. chances in the 2022 midterm elections, which of course, means harming his chances of becoming Speaker. That's what being a McCarthy Republican has come to mean.

It also means opposing this current Select Committee which only exists because of his opposition of the bipartisan one. Being a McCarthy Republican means naming election deniers to it then pulling out entirely when Speaker Pelosi vetoes two of his five picks. Now, it means snarking about the two Republicans whom she herself invited to join the panel, one of them Congresswoman Cheney, is already stripped of her party leadership role. And if you're thinking this is all pretty cynical for a guy who was as

clear eyed about the facts as he was at least when a violent mob was literally -- literally -- at his door. Well, he comes by his cynicism, honestly, after all, he learned long ago how to be a McCarthy Republican.


MCCARTHY: Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi Special Committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping.


COOPER: Not about what they found out about Benghazi, or didn't find out, it's about her numbers making them drop.

Joining us now, Congressman Adam Schiff, member of the Select Committee and Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. Chairman Schiff, this House G.O.P. resolution that just failed tonight, which demanded that Speaker Pelosi seat McCarthy's picks for the committee, is this anything other than just You know gamesmanship by Kevin McCarthy?


REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): No, that's all it is. And I think you summed up both McCarthy and the lack of any dedication to principle, ideology, anything, but maintenance of his position. This is just more of the same effort at distraction.

And I think you also made a very important point at the outset, which is, at the end of the day, what this insurrection was about was about a large group of people unwilling to accept the results of a democratic election, willing to use violence to have their way and that is a very dangerous sign that our democracy is on thin ice.

And one of the things that I hope that we will shed light on is how our country got to this point, as well as how we got to January 6, but what we need to do going forward to put our democracy on more solid ground.

COOPER: House Republicans have their own plans to try to counter the narrative of the hearing tomorrow. We learned today that Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene, Louie Gohmert, Paul Gosar -- are all the bright lights of the Republican Party plan to hold a press conference, quote, " ... demanding answers from Attorney General Merrick Garland on the status of January 6 prisoners and related investigations," end quote.

They are calling insurrectionists who violently stormed the Capitol on January 6, prisoners, as though they're sort of POWs in some way. The fact that they're doing this on the day the police officers are testifying about how they feared for their lives. You know, Louie Gohmert claims to be a law and order person. I mean, he's from Texas. This is what the Republican Party has come to. SCHIFF: It is what the Publican Party has come to. It's not a party of

ideas. It's a cult around the person of the former President. And look, if they choose to do that, and we fully suspected that that might choose some distraction tomorrow, it will only sharpen the contrast between the Democrats and Republicans on the Select Committee and their genuine desire to get to the truth and the facts.

And this clown show that has become the G.O.P. wedded to this grifter in the form of the former President.

COOPER: Is there anything new really to learn though, about January 6? I mean, that's one of the criticisms of, you know, of having this Select Committee. They say, it's really just to, you know, keep this in the news and bash the former President. What more do you hope to learn from this?

SCHIFF: Well, really, just about everything more. There is very little that we really know about that day. We don't know what the quality of the Intelligence was before that date. We don't know how well it was shared or not shared. We don't know why it wasn't acted upon, or if it was acted upon.

We don't know why it took so long to call in the National Guard. We don't know what the White House administration knew about the participation of these white nationalist groups. We don't know what degree these white nationalists essentially coordinated with each other.

We don't know what their object was, in terms of violence against particular members. We certainly know that they intended to do harm against the Speaker, against Mike Pence, but we also don't know what plans they have in the future.

So, all of these questions and many more, we hope to shed light on, we hope to learn in depth about, and create a comprehensive report, and most important make recommendations for the future.

COOPER: Just looking at the hearing tomorrow, can you explain how it is going to be formatted?

SCHIFF: Yes. It will have opening statements by the Chair, Bennie Thompson, and then by Liz Cheney, so that she can articulate the view of a great many Republicans who are also interested in getting to the truth. And then we will proceed with the witness testimony.

And then we'll have member questions which will probably last five to 10 minutes apiece, probably closer to 10 minutes. And those will -- the questions will be interspersed with videos, some that has been seen before, some that has not been seen before.

But most importantly, these police officers who were on the frontlines who were beaten, who were sprayed with bear spray, who were attacked and continue to suffer injuries, some who came close to dying that day will be able to help tell us what happened, and also give content to these video images that many people have seen, but don't really understand what was going on. COOPER: It is remarkable when you think about 9/11 and the horrific

attack on America and American democracy that day, and the amount of investigation, the amount of attention -- bipartisan -- that was rightfully paid to it. It is -- just when you step back and try to kind of remove the politics from it, just on a purely historic and national security basis, it is kind of stunning that we're in this position where it's now politicized -- it's seen through the lens of politics if you want to know more about what actually happened.


SCHIFF: Well, that's exactly right. And of course, you could have made the same point after 9/11. Do we really need an investigation? Because don't we know what happened? And don't we know that al-Qaeda attacked us and they used aircraft? What more is there to learn?

Of course, there was a lot more to learn about why this happened and why we weren't able to stop it, and what future threat was posed by al-Qaeda and what reforms and changes we needed to make to our Intelligence collection and collaboration among agencies, and we approached that task in a bipartisan way.

Now, then, like now, there was some initial opposition of the Bush administration. They thought the commission might report negatively on how they didn't stop 9/11 from happening. But there were enough people of goodwill in both parties to overcome that and come up with a bipartisan product.

But that Republican Party that was willing to do that in 2001 and 2002 is not Donald Trump's Republican Party. Had Kevin McCarthy been the leader then, there would have been no 9/11 Commission. There would have been, you know, an effort to persuade the country that what, it didn't happen, or it's overblown, or who knows what the explanation would have been.

COOPER: Well, also, former President Bush did not address the hijackers ahead of the attack on 9/11. I mean, you know, none of this would have happened, were it not for the former President of the United States. I mean, that is an event unique in American history.

SCHIFF Well, that's true. And more than that, it wouldn't have happened without the weeks and weeks of preparation before January 6, all of the propagation of the big lie about the election that made this such fertile ground. And, you know, the admonition from the President and the amplification that he got on, you know, the right- wing media, that all was a component of this, and a lot more.

But that amount that we don't know is what we hope to reveal. What was the role of these right-wing, white nationalist groups? How much foreknowledge was there in the administration that they would be there intent on doing violence? These are questions that need to be answered.

COOPER: Chairman Schiff, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

SCHIFF: Thank you. COOPER: Next, with the country's biggest state and biggest city both

imposing vaccine mandates and one vaccine maker expanding testing for younger kids, we will talk about that breaking news and more with the former C.D.C. Director as the delta variant surges in places across the country and the world.

And later, the former President weighing in on the vaccines his administration helped make possible, but what he said might not change many minds.



COOPER: Breaking news tonight on COVID and the delta variant's impact, New York City's Mayor today announcing that all city workers including firefighters and police officers to either get vaccinated or be tested once a week. California's Governor taking nearly identical action today ordering all state workers and healthcare workers in the state to do the same starting August 2nd.

Also today, Moderna said it will expand the size of its vaccine trial on younger children with the expectation of seeking Emergency Use Authorization by late this year or early 2022, which feels like a lifetime away given how rapidly delta is spreading. The seven-day rolling average of new cases topping 55,000 today. It was just under 12,000 a month ago.

A lot to talk about tonight with Dr. Thomas Frieden, former Director of the C.D.C.

Dr. Frieden, appreciate you being with us tonight. So, in addition to the mandates in New York City and California, the Department of Veterans Affairs is requiring healthcare workers to be vaccinated. That's the first department of the Federal government to do so. Do you think those are good solutions for those who are vaccine hesitant to get vaccinated or get tested weekly?

DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE C.D.C.: Anderson, the case in healthcare workers and nursing home workers is very clear. If you have a relative living in a nursing home and a staff member isn't vaccinated that could result in the death of your relative. So, for the safety of our patients, for the safety of co-workers, vaccinating all healthcare workers makes a lot of sense.

COOPER: Why not make it actually mandatory then? Why not, not give people an out of -- well, or you get tested once a week, which doesn't frankly, seem to be -- I mean, you can go for days being positive and spreading the virus?

FRIEDEN: Now, testing once a week, I think is to be frank, probably a way of encouraging people to get vaccinated.

COOPER: Would you -- I mean, employers can choose to enforce a vaccination policy on all their employees, can't they? FRIEDEN: If you're an employer, you have to say, hey, if there is

spread of COVID at the workplace, and I haven't done this, is there some ethical or legal liability if my customers get sick? Is that a problem? If I vaccinate everyone, if I can encourage or mandate everyone to get vaccinated, will that be a comparative advantage? Will people be more interested in coming to my business knowing that everyone there is vaccinated?

The bottom line, Anderson, is that these vaccines are remarkably effective and extremely safe, and the more of us who take them, the safer we'll be. We're heading into a rough time. It's likely if our trajectory is similar to that in the United Kingdom, that we could see as many as 200,000 cases a day, four times our current rate within another four to six weeks.

And although we won't see the horrific death toll that we saw last spring, because 80 percent of people over the age of 65 are vaccinated, you will see a steady increase in deaths, and these are preventable deaths.

COOPER: Wait a minute, you think it's possible that they are -- right now, it's some 50,000. You think it could go up to 200,000 cases a day in four to six weeks?

FRIEDEN: If our pattern follows what the United Kingdom pattern was, on the one hand, they opened up a little bit more vociferously than we did. On the other hand, they had more vaccination we've had. What you see is that the delta variant is so infectious that essentially, it finds the unvaccinated, whether that's younger people who are vaccinated in much lower numbers, but are susceptible still to serious illness, and long COVID, or people who are older who haven't gotten vaccinated yet.

You'll also see predictively more breakthrough infections, but most of those are going to be mild. A few will be serious; tragically, a few of those will end in death. But for everyone that ends in death in the coming weeks, there would have been hundreds that ended in death if there hadn't been vaccinations.

COOPER: You know, I've interviewed a lot of people who have long COVID and it is -- it has been devastating for them. They all -- everyone that I've interviewed has had -- actually had a mild -- what they considered or we are told was a mild case of COVID when they actually had COVID. It was afterward that the real horror of long COVID took over their lives, even young people are susceptible to long COVID, correct?

FRIEDEN: Absolutely. And Anderson, my group results To Save Lives polled and found that when people who are vaccine hesitant see the real life stories of people living with long COVID, they are much more willing to get vaccinated.

COOPER: Dr. Frieden, I appreciate you coming tonight. Thank you.

FRIEDEN: Thank you. COOPER: A closer look now at Florida, which over the past week has

accounted for nearly a quarter of all cases in the country, that's more than any other state. New cases there are now averaging more than 10,000 a day. They've tripled in the last two weeks.

Randi Kaye reports tonight on what she saw at a major hospital in Jacksonville that's struggling to just keep up.


TAMMY DANIEL, CHIEF NURSING OFFICER, BAPTIST HEALTH: The increase started happening so quickly, and it's multiplying so fast every single day. We can't open a bed fast enough to meet the demands.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): We met Chief Nursing Officer, Tammy Daniel in Jacksonville's Baptist Medical Center on one of the hospital's COVID floors, where those battling COVID are kept in special rooms reserved for patients with infectious diseases.

Baptist is now treating 389 COVID patients. That's an increase of about 11 percent from last week, 83 of the patients are in the ICU and on ventilators fighting to survive. Baptist says more than 99 percent of the infected patients here are not vaccinated.

And Dr. Michelle Aquino says those getting really sick are younger, too.

DR. MICHELLE AQUINO, BAPTIST MEDICAL CENTER, JACKSONVILLE: I've admitted perfectly healthy 19-year-old woman, okay, a perfectly healthy, 25-year-old. So, you're seeing these healthy people that are walking around saying, I don't need a vaccine, I'm fine. If I get COVID I'll be fine, and that's not true. For the delta variant, we're really seeing that is not true.

KAYE (voice over): About 44 percent of the COVID patients here are under the age of 50 according to the hospital.

MICHAEL MAYO, PRESIDENT AND CEO, BAPTIST HEALTH: Our average age right now is at the 50 year old mark and we see patients infected with serious respiratory problems as young as in their 30s.

KAYE (voice over): And once patients are seriously ill, it's too late to get the vaccine until they recover. But that hasn't stopped many from begging for it.

DANIELS: We're getting ready to intubate the patient in the ICU, which means putting them on a ventilator. And they said if I get the vaccine now, could I not go on the ventilator? So I mean, they're begging for it. They're desperate because they're gasping for air.

They can't breathe. They are scared. They feel like they're going to pass away.

KAYE (voice over): In room 434, we find Francisca who tells me that her whole family has COVID, none of them got the vaccine.

FRANCISCA: I feel bad.

KAYE (on camera): Bad?

FRANCISCA: Yes, I cannot breathe good. I have shortness of breath. I feel sorry about not getting a vaccine.

KAYE: You're sorry. You're sorry. You didn't get the vaccine. Do you -- do you think you would be here if you had gotten the vaccine?


KAYE (voice over): Down the hall, this patient is also unvaccinated.

KAYE (on camera): You were more concerned about the vaccine than the disease, and now you say you regret it.

MARIBEL: Yes, exactly. That's correct. That's right.

KAYE: You wish you had gotten the vaccine?

MARIBEL: Yes, exactly.

KAYE: You probably wouldn't be here.

MARIBEL: Yes, exactly.

KAYE (voice over): Same story for Marico. He is 49, unvaccinated, and full of regret about not making the vaccine a priority when his doctor offered it.

KAYE (on camera): So, you're going to get the vaccine now.

MARICO, Yes, ma'am.

KAYE (voice over): Frustration is high among staff here since they know it doesn't have to be this way.

KAYE (on camera): Have you lost patience?

AQUINO: Yes, we've all lost patience here in the last few weeks. When you see someone who is 39, otherwise healthy, they can get vaccinated for whatever reason, usually not a great reason to be honest. And then they come in here and they die from complications of COVID.


COOPER: To see, and as you said, it doesn't have to be this way. How many new COVID cases about -- COVID positive patients are they getting a day?


KAYE: Dozens, Anderson. It's really just a terrible situation. Just yesterday, which was the last day that we have a full count for, the hospital received 63 COVID positive patients, and of that group, of those who were eligible to get the vaccine, not a single one had gotten the shot. So, it's really the unvaccinated who we hear over and over again are ending up in the hospital.

But also at this hospital, they are very concerned about children because as you know, children 12 and under can't get the vaccine yet. And right now, they have 11 children under the age of 12 who are positive with COVID, and one of them is seriously ill in the ICU. So they are very concerned about these children.

But overall, Anderson, across this hospital system, the patients are younger, they are sicker, and they're staying in the hospital longer on an average of eight days or more. Whereas the first surge here in the State of Florida, they were being released before that eight-day mark.

So, a lot of concern here at that hospital and across the state -- Anderson.

COOPER: Wait a minute, you said, they've had 11 children, you mean this at the ICU? This at the emergency room or they've had 11 children actually in the hospital?

KAYE: Eleven children in the hospital with COVID, and one of them is in the ICU.

COOPER: Is that total or is that right now?

KAYE: That's right now.

COOPER: Right now, there's 11.

KAYE: That is right now.

COOPER: Wow. And one is in the ICU.

KAYE: Yes.

COOPER: Randi Kaye, I appreciate it. Thank you.

KAYE: Sure.

COOPER: Up next, what the former President said about vaccines in his weekend speech in Arizona, his attack against science and what an ER doctor has to say about it when we continue.



COOPER: The former president once again invoked the big lie during a speech in Arizona over the weekend were to the surprise of really nobody he came out forcefully behind that Sham audit of millions of votes cast in and around Phoenix during the last election. But science was also under attack during the event even though he did manage to make a somewhat guarded endorsement of the COVID vaccine, which is certainly helpful to some degrees.

CNN's Kyung Lah has the story. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Wrapping around the 5,000 seat theater in Phoenix, Arizona, a long line of Donald Trump's faithful.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take off the mask.

LAH (voice-over): Just 36% of the people in this county are vaccinated. Case rates have more than doubled in the past two weeks fueled by the more contagious Delta variant.

Stepped inside with us at this indoor rally, we find data and reason is absent that every seat is full, no social distancing, or masks.


LAH (voice-over): As this crowd chants and sings for hours. This rally is to support the lie that Trump won Arizona and the 2020 election. But it's also about this.

CHARLIE KIRK, TURNING POINT USA: No one should be forced to take a vaccine against their will.

LAH (voice-over): Far right politics is king here. Science, the villain.

KIRK: It came from a laboratory and Dr. Fauci should be in prison for what he did over the last year.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS: Lock him up. Lock him up.

LAH (voice-over): 2022 Arizona Republican candidates feed off ignorance.

KAN LAKE (R-AZ) GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Mothers who don't let them mask our children again.

LAH (voice-over): They're all here for the headliner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the 45th President of the United States of America, Donald J. Trump.

DONALD TRUMP (R) FMR PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: How about the vaccine, I came up with the vaccine, I recommend you take it but I also believe in your freedoms 100%.

LAH (on-camera): What do you think of that behavior?

MURTAZA AKHTER, EMERGENCY ROOM DOCTOR, UNIV. OF ARIZONA: Extremely dangerous, and maybe not politically correct to say it's stupid, dangerous and stupid. LAH (voice-over): Dr. Murtaza Akhter is an emergency room physician in Phoenix and has been on the front lines of the COVID battle since it began.

(on-camera): What do you anticipate is going to be the impact of this?

AKHTER: Of the rally? Oh, well, I mean, there's definitely increase in cases. And there's no way with a Delta variant. There aren't people in there who already have the coronavirus. This behavior regardless, what variant is round is a cesspool for creating variants.

LAH (on-camera): How frustrating is this type of thing for you?

AKHTER: If you make a dumb decision about your own health, on one level, you could say, well, it's your life. But when it's infectious disease at this -- that's this contagious and affects so many people, you're not just affecting yourself. You're affecting everybody around you.


COOPER: Kyung Lah joins us from Scottsdale. In recent days that there has been a shift among conservative voices urging vaccinations. Did you see any response to that this weekend?

LAH: Not in this crowd. It is so baked in, it so part of the DNA of the political conversation now that it's really no, I mean, that's the answer. When you talk to them, the people in this particular crowd really view not having a mask, not having a vaccine as somehow making you more patriotic.

And that's a real danger here says Dr. Akhter when we were also showing him this video, he says because this is such a strong mindset. And a lot of the people there who were not wearing masks, he says some of them are elderly, some of them are overweight. He is hoping that they are vaccinated, but he has some serious questions about that Anderson.

COOPER: Kyung Lah, appreciate it. Thank you.

The Biden administration has been doing its own polling of the unvaccinated since the spring to try to find out why they're hesitant. Frank Luntz, a Republican pollster with deep roots in the party has been working with the administration in an unofficial capacity. We should point out the de Beaumont foundation is helping coordinate and fund the focus groups and Frank Luntz joins us now.

Frank, thank you for being with us. I think it's really important what you're doing and I really am interested to hear from you what works to reach those of any political persuasion who, for whatever reason, are hesitant. What is the biggest challenge to getting people vaccinated?

FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER & POLITICAL ANALYST: Probably the biggest challenge is that they simply don't believe the information that they're being provided that they've started to deny the data, forget the facts, and they simply refuse to be educated. And we have to be careful about this because skepticism is acceptable. People have the right to be nervous about a vaccine that has still been not fully approved by the FDA.


But that said, we know that over 90% of the people in the hospitals are people who did not get vaccinated, we know that this vaccine is safe, we know that it works that the government would even shut it down for six instances, six out of tens of millions of people a couple months ago, who may have developed blood clots from it. So, this is a very careful, very well researched a very well-studied vaccine, and I'm going to give you four solutions.

Number one, for grandparents who are watching, it's time for you to call your grandkids. You know, the closest family relationship of all is grandparent grandchild, they both have the same enemy. Grandparents, call your grandkids tell them they are vaccinated.

Second, teachers, we're about to have a back-to-school effort. We need teachers to call the parents themselves, call your class and say, you know, it would be really great if your students are vaccinated, and I think you should get one too.

Third, not just your own doctor, but pharmacists need to get involved because there are millions of people who trust their pharmacist when they are seeking medical information.

And forth, frankly, it's Donald Trump. And I want Joe Biden to specifically invite Trump to the White House, say, come on home and you and I are going to ask people to get vaccinated. What we learned from the de Beaumont, and by the way, you can see all the research, everything is available on the de Beaumont.

We know that if Biden and Trump together make the request that millions of people listen to it. So let's try to make that happen. Let's push Trump to join Joe Biden and the two of them together, say to the American people, we got the vaccine, we got it out to you, now use it.

COOPER: Is it for -- you know, I understand, you know, everybody has freedoms to do what they want with their bodies. Is it -- how effective a message do you think it's been from the former president this weekend saying, look, you know, I did the vaccine. You know, I'm very pleased with how I did it. I recommend you get it. But I also understand your freedoms. Is that enough?

LUNTZ: No, it's not enough. It has to be more. And it's also has to be about personal responsibility. You had on earlier Tom Frieden, Dr. Frieden, who's probably the best communicator in the country on this stuff. And Anderson, I'm going to tell you something, which probably you don't want to hear. But I'd rather see Tom Frieden on the show than Anthony Fauci on this show, because Fauci has become so politicized, so polarized, that every time he speaks, he actually turns off people.

We need more people, more experts like, like Tom Friedman, who are active and know the data and know how to communicate it is personal responsibility, not some sort of national discussion. And the most important fact of all, if over 90% of doctors have been vaccinated, don't they know something that you may not know? Because the problem is they're trusting their cousin, rather than their doctor.

COOPER: So it's interesting what you said about Dr. Fauci because he viewed you're saying through a political lens by a large segment of the population who was vaccine hesitant and refusing to take it, because he's been labeled that then they discount anything he has to say, or in fact, do the opposite.

LUNTZ: Exactly. And, and you're serious. And this is a serious show. And by the way, it's 1:40 a.m., here in London, and I got up to make sure I stayed up to make sure I can do this. If we are serious about it, it means we have to put the best folks, people out there.

And it also means we can't demonize the people that we're trying to win over, that you don't hate people because they make the wrong decisions. You love them and try to educate them and try to move them.

Look, I get frustrated and I acknowledge that in the last focus group I did. But we got it. We got to do this. And so demonizing these people --


LUNTZ: -- and then asking them to follow a proper course, they won't do it.

COOPER: Yes, no, you're right. You're absolutely right about that. Just one quick question. We had on last week in a report by a correspondent Elle Reeve in Alabama. She talked to a mom who's eight year -- excuse me its Arkansas. She talked to a mom whose eight-year- old child got COVID according to mom was pretty sick, had a really high fever for weeks and weeks and weeks.

The mom said was still not feeling well. She wanted to take the child to a doctor to see what kind of damage was done. If anything more could be done to help. Then Elle Reeve ask, well, you know, are you now going to get vaccinated to, you know, protect your other kids? And she said no, and the answer was because she didn't trust the government.


How do you reach her? Without condemning without, without, you know, naming, you know, calling names, just all the matters is protecting those kids.

LUNTZ: We have so destroyed our democracy. We have done so much damage to this country. It's one of the reasons why I had to get out for a couple months. When science is so polarized and so political, that you can't tell people the truth that they won't listen to you, then you know, the damage has been done. And I'm afraid it's prominent. So I wish I could give you the answer. And I told you the four ways that we can make a difference. COOPER: Yes.

LUNTZ: But Anderson, we have dammed this country, not two weeks or months, but years of this. It's not name calling. Its demonization and dehumanization, and delegitimization.


LUNTZ: And God help us because I think a lot of people are going to get sick, a lot of people are going to die. And God I wish it had not happened down.

COOPER: Yes. Frank Luntz, I appreciate what you're doing. I appreciate you talking tonight. Thank you.

Coming up, a CNN exclusive investigation multiple sources detailing what they believe are clear attempts to block investigators from learning who killed Haiti's president.


COOPER: It's been nearly three weeks since the assassination of Haiti's president in his home ever since there has been a lot of unanswered questions about the investigation.

Tonight in a CNN exclusive report, you'll see how those who should be granted access to the crime scene have been kept away and have even received death threats.

The story now from CNN is Matt Rivers.


MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): CNN has obtained a copy of a previously unseen formal complaint filed with Haiti's national police in which several Haitian court clerks key figures in criminal investigations, detail the death threats they've received in the past few weeks. Hey clerk, you can wait for a bullet in your head. They gave you an order and you keep on doing read one text message.


The threat comes from someone anonymous, angry that the clerk has not followed certain instructions about whom and what to investigate.

(on-camera): The threats appear to be just one startling example of what appear to be consistent patterns of intimidation and a failure to follow procedure throughout the investigation into the President's death. CNN has spoken to multiple sources close to the investigation, who detailed what they believe are clear attempts to block investigators and therefore the public from finding out more about who killed the president and why.

(voice-over): Starting just a few hours after the assassination around 7:00 a.m. outside the presidential residence. Sources tell CNN, multiple court clerks were camped outside a police perimeter for more than three hours after arriving even while other law enforcement was inside. Normally, experts on Haiti's legal system say, clerks enter a crime scene right away to officially document any evidence and to take statements from key witnesses per Haitian law.

(on-camera): It's unclear why in this case they were delayed, but when they eventually did make it into the presidential residence just down the street behind me sources tell us that not one of the roughly two dozen or so guards present at the time of the assassination were still there, meaning no witness statements were immediately taken.

(voice-over): Later on that day, there was a fierce gunfight between Haitian security forces and some of the alleged assassins at this building. Multiple suspects were killed all of whom were Colombian. Sources close to the investigation tell us court clerks were not immediately allowed into the shootout scene, which would have been filled with evidence including were told the bodies of the dead Colombians.

In an official document filed with Haiti's top prosecutor clerks describe examining the bodies not here at the shootout site, but here outside of an office building just down the road. That suggests the bodies had been removed from the crime scene before being processed. No official explanation of why that happened was given.


RIVERS (voice-over): A few days later authority start to zero in on this man Christian Emmanuel Sanon as someone who allegedly recruited and helped organize some of these men seen here the large group of Colombians and several Americans, Haitian officials alleged carried out this crime. We haven't heard from them publicly. A source close to the investigation previously told CNN, Sanon told investigators he is innocent.

It was around this time that the anonymous phone call started. According to the official complaint filed with police obtained by CNN clerks received multiple threatening phone calls, telling them to stop investigating two suspects in the case and remove them from their reports. According to the complaint, the calls were followed by this text message quote, they told you to stop going around searching people's houses in the president assassination case and you refused. You've been told to take out two names and you refused. We're watching you.

Sources close to the investigation tell us the clerks were also told to add unrelated names to their reports, people who had no clear connection to the crime. It's unclear who made any of the calls or sent the text messages. And then there's what happened with the FBI special agents from the bureau invited in by Haiti's government went to the presidential residence about two weeks ago to collect evidence. Sources tell us the agents managed to find a lot including the megaphone used here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: DEA operations. Everybody back up, stand out. RIVERS (voice-over): This is from the night of the assassination where one of the suspects is keeping people away from the scene by claiming it was all a DEA operation something the agency and Haitian officials repeatedly denied that it was. Sources tell CNN, FBI agents were a little surprised to find so much evidence still at the crime scene and left wondering why Haitian authorities hadn't already collected. The sources added they do expect the FBI will have continued access to evidence that they requested.


COOPER: And Matt Rivers joins us now. Have authorities commented about these death threats?

RIVERS: We've reached out to multiple government agencies Anderson, only one person got back to us Haiti's top prosecutor who would only say he would try and improve the security for some of these investigators. We've talked about this for weeks now even after all that reporting that we just laid out, what don't we have Anderson, a motive for the reason why the President was killed, a mastermind behind that operation.

What we do have though, is what very much appears to be a coordinated effort to keep some of those people who are seeking the truth from finding it.

COOPER: Matt Rivers, I appreciated it. Thanks.

Up next, Tom Barrack, who headed the former president's Inaugural Committee, entered to plead today in federal court to accusations of illegal foreign lobbying. Details ahead.



COOPER: Tom Barrack an ally of the former president and the man who headed his Inaugural Committee entered a plea of not guilty today to federal charges of illegal foreign lobbying. He's free in a staggering bail package worth around $250 million. As you can see, he's one -- only one of several people associated with the former president, who have either been indicted, sent to prison or under legal scrutiny having once been in the former president's orbit.

CNN's Kara Scannell now here with today's developments. What do we know now about the conditions of his $250 million bail agreement?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Well, Anderson, we know we'll start with the money first, the judge saying that this substantial $250 million agreement was quite substantial. He said it was sufficient to mitigate the risk of flight.

That was a big question that prosecutors had here not wanting Tom Barrack, someone who has a lot of international connections, and a lot of monies potentially leave. So, as part of this arrangement, Barrack's ex-wife, his former business partner and his son have backed up -- backing up this bail package is $250 million.

And in addition to that, he's also under other considerations here, he's going to have GPS tracking, that means he's wearing an ankle bracelet. His travel is also restricted to these portions of California, New York and Colorado. He can no longer use any private planes. So he has to fly commercial. And he cannot engage in any overseas fun transfers. It's all getting at the heart of this issue where prosecutors are concerned that they could flee. Anderson.

COOPER: And what happens if for any reason he doesn't comply.

SCANNELL: So the judge was very clear on this. He told Barrack that if he failed to show up to a court hearing a warrant would be issued for his arrest. He also made clear to him that his friends and family members who are supporting him who lose their homes, and as part of Barrack's bail package, he's also posting some shares in the company that he owns, and the judge telling him that he would forfeit those shares that he violated any terms of his bail and noting to Barrack that that would essentially wipe him out.


Now after the judge had gone through all of the potential ramifications here, he said to Barrack, you know, do you have any other questions? And Barrack said, no, Your Honor. That was very clear. So, certainly got the message that there's a lot at stake here.

COOPER: And obviously, it's probably too soon. But I mean, so nothing that we know about is change and whether or not he might cooperate with authorities.

SCANNELL: Right. I mean, it is still very early. It hasn't even been one week since he was arrested. But the tone from Barrack's legal team today is that he is innocent of these charges that they plan to go to the mat and take this to trial. So, it's still early days, but that's the position that they're seeking out right now. Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Kara Scannell, thank you.

Coming up next, a sad but welcome milestone in the Surfside condo disaster.


COOPER: The remains of the last victim of the Florida condo collapse have been identified bringing the official death toll to 98. Fifty- four-year-old Estelle Hedaya was the last victim unaccounted for. She lived in unit 604. The oldest three siblings, Hedaya worked in the jewelry industry.

She loved to dance and even called herself cha-cha-cha on social media. She also enjoys traveling and working out on her blog, the Brooklyn born native called herself a New Yorker taking Miami by storm in the most fabulous fashion. It was a long four week wait for her family. Of course, the Champlain towers South collapse in the early morning hours of June 24th. Her identification comes just days after firefighters wrapped up their recovery effort at the collapse site. The victims of the tragedy range in aid from one to 92 years old. The site is now mostly cleared the rubble has been moved to another location to be analyzed in search for mementos.

Our thoughts are with all the families touched by this tragedy.

The news continues. Let's hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIMETIME." Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: A moment, Anderson if you think about it, that story is so poignant. And why? Because it was senseless. She had no control over it. She had no choice. And now she's gone.