IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                 FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO
 
Criminal Action No. 96-CR-68
 
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
 
    Plaintiff,
 
vs.
 
TERRY LYNN NICHOLS,
 
    Defendant.
 
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                     REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT
                (Trial to Jury:  Volume 156)
ŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽŽ
         Proceedings before the HONORABLE RICHARD P. MATSCH,
Judge, United States District Court for the District of
Colorado, commencing at 5:00 p.m., on the 5th day of January,
1998, in Courtroom C-204, United States Courthouse, Denver,
Colorado.

 Proceeding Recorded by Mechanical Stenography, Transcription
  Produced via Computer by Paul Zuckerman, 1929 Stout Street,
    P.O. Box 3563, Denver, Colorado, 80294, (303) 629-9285
                          APPEARANCES
         PATRICK RYAN, United States Attorney for the Western
District of Oklahoma, and RANDAL SENGEL, Assistant U.S.
Attorney for the Western District of Oklahoma, 210 West Park
Avenue, Suite 400, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, 73102, appearing
for the plaintiff.
         LARRY MACKEY, SEAN CONNELLY, BETH WILKINSON, GEOFFREY
MEARNS, JAMIE ORENSTEIN, and AITAN GOELMAN, Special Attorneys
to the U.S. Attorney General, 1961 Stout Street, Suite 1200,
Denver, Colorado, 80294, appearing for the plaintiff.
         MICHAEL TIGAR, RONALD WOODS, ADAM THURSCHWELL, REID
NEUREITER, and JANE TIGAR, Attorneys at Law, 1120 Lincoln
Street, Suite 1308, Denver, Colorado, 80203, appearing for
Defendant Nichols.
                         *  *  *  *  *
                          PROCEEDINGS
    (In open court at 5 p.m.)
         THE COURT:  Be seated, please.
    (Jury in at 5 p.m.)
         THE COURT:  Members of the jury, we're at 5:00, so
this is the time to recess your deliberations, just as we did
earlier when you were deliberating; but not long ago, you sent
out a communication.  And I've reviewed that with counsel.  And
I just -- I'm not going to read it, respond to it now; but I
want to simply mention a couple of things in response.
         I'm really -- well, first of all, I remind you that
all of your communications dealing with your deliberations
should be addressed to the Court.  Only I can respond to your
communications, and your communications, of course, must be in
writing to the Court.
         But you put a rather pointed question, and I feel
unable to answer such a direct and pointed question.  And let
me explain:  I gave you a copy of the original instructions
with respect to the elements of the offense and, of course, all
of the rest of them for your reference; and obviously, you have
been making reference to it.
         Now, in addressing the questions that are before you
now and the instructions given to you today and the verdict
form given to you today, the findings form, you must, of
course, consider those earlier instructions and what I told you
constituted the elements of the offense for which -- and all of
the offenses, for that matter, and your findings.
         Now, I cannot and no one can ask you in detail with
respect to your findings.  You were judges of the evidence.
You made findings with respect to the evidence.  Those
findings, then, your evidentiary findings, have to be
considered within the context of the law that was given to you.
         So what I'm going to suggest to you is that when you
come back to resume your deliberations in the morning, you go
back to those instructions that were given to you, beginning
really on page 7 of the original instructions, and review what
I told you are the necessary elements of the offense of
conspiracy and the charge in the case and then review also
among yourselves the bases upon which you considered that count
and returned your verdict on that count and then look at the
findings -- or excuse me -- the instructions that I gave you
today and the definitions there are and the special findings
form and read them together.
         So perhaps that will assist you, if you will follow
that suggestion.
         And again, I feel that I cannot directly answer
questions where the answer depends upon your view of the
evidence in the case and your previous findings with respect to
the evidence in the case, because I do not wish in any way, of
course, to suggest to you what your decisions now should be.
And I in all of my instructions to you and comments to you, of
course -- they should be understood by you -- and I did not
repeat in these instructions this morning that which I told you
in the original: that the Court has no opinion with respect to
what your findings should be.  That's why I'm very careful in
all of my comments to you and instructions to you and the
manner in which I'm addressing your latest communication to me.
         Now, of course, anytime I refer you to instructions, I
again want to be understood by you as including among them the
instruction that all of the instructions that were given to you
must be considered together, as they are connected with and
related to each other as a whole.  And anytime that I suggest
to you a particular part of the instructions on the law, I want
you to understand the importance of that instruction; that they
are connected and related, and also that includes the
instructions on the burden of proof and who has the burden of
proof with respect to the matters that are now before you for
your special findings.
         Well, I hope this will be of some assistance to you
and this suggestion as you proceed in the morning.
         Would you like to start at 8:30 in the morning?  Is
that all right?  It looks like that's the general view.
         So we'll recess your deliberations now and again, of
course, remembering that what you are discussing here is a
matter to be saved for only the 12 of you who are deliberating
in this case, so there should be no discussion with anyone else
about these deliberations.  And of course, you're not to again
reveal to anyone how the jury stands numerically or otherwise
on these questions before you until you have reached your
verdict, just as I told you when you were deliberating on the
counts in the case.
         And I again emphasize that and also emphasize the need
for you to decide the questions before you based solely on the
law and the evidence presented to you in the course of this
proceeding and the trial.  And therefore, continue to be very
careful to avoid anything outside what has been given to you in
this courtroom in reaching your decision in the case on the
questions before you.
         You're excused, then, until you resume your
deliberations at 8:30 in the morning.  And again, when you come
in, do not begin your deliberations until the foreperson
convenes you for deliberations.  Put the matter aside; let it
rest overnight; come back to it fresh in the morning.
         You're excused now.
    (Jury out at 5:08 p.m.)
         THE COURT:  All right.  We'll again be in recess
subject to call.
    (Recess at 5:08 p.m.)
                         *  *  *  *  *
                    REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
    I certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from
the record of proceedings in the above-entitled matter.  Dated
at Denver, Colorado, this 5th day of January, 1998.


                                 _______________________________
                                         Paul Zuckerman