Way to go Amnesty International... Its about time somebody spoke up on this issue. I know this would be an uphill battle but its time to start taking that path.

way to go amnesty, no more arms for hamas!!!

I disagree, Israel has the right to defend itself from terrorist attack, unfortunately terrorist are civilians that choose to murder people as they please, and hide behind schools, hospitals, and mosques when they are being shot at.

Hamas and all other terror organizations are cowards to the last, they hide behind women and children, and people wonder why there are so many civilian casualties.

Hamas should stop shooting rockets and trying to plant bombs in schools, and Israel will not pound Hamas into the dirt.

I have no remorse for those who choose a path of hate and destruction, when that same hate and destruction is returned to them.

World Traveler,

You can disagree all what you want but US Arms Export laws prohibit exporting weapons to countries that use them against civilians.... and the latest attack on Gaza was a proof that Israel targets civilians.

Professor,

Israel did not target civilians; Hamas was hiding behind them, and using them as human shields.

I have also read reports that Hamas and other terror organizations have planted bodies and guided investigators to see false scenes.

I know it is a problem for most people that have not lived in the area to understand what they see and hear, and often it is propaganda instituted by the terror organizations that reaches most people’s ears, it is similar to spinning a story to your favor, or making the statistical data reflect in your choosing.

I have lived in many of these places you read and hear about, and I have seen agendas and false advertisement from many sources. I choose not to believe everything I hear, even amnesty international.

Professor
if Israel wanted to target civilians it would not called them in advance to warn them to evacuate, and would not allowed in humanitarian supplies.
It could also not send ground forces to risk their lives and conduct whole campaign from the air. If anybody in this conflict made any effort to prevent Palestinian civilian casualties it was Israel.

“To a large extent, Israel’s military offensive in Gaza was carried out with weapons, munitions and military equipment supplied by the U.S.A. and paid for with U.S. taxpayers’ money,” Malcolm Smart, Amnesty’s Middle East director, said in the report."

well it is up to the American tax payers to stop this outlaw state from using their money to kill children.

Solomon,

News flash, American tax payers can’t stop anything.

Israel happens to be the one country in that part of the world that dose follow the law, and also happens to have the highest literacy rate, and Israel is the only country in the region ranked "Free" by Freedom House, (international non-governmental organization that conducts research and advocacy on democracy, political freedom and human rights) based on the level of civil and political rights.
Killing children is not Israel’s intent, but I am sure if you ask any Hamas member you will discover their intent is to do just that.

Solomon -

Its up to cowardly Islamic terrorist groups like Hamas to stop attacking israeli civilians and hiding behind their own civilians. Hamas did everything in its power to MAXIMIZE civilian casualties. Israel bent over backwards to prevent civilian casualties. Indeed, new statistics show that 2/3 of those killed were Islamic terrorists, not civilians, as Palestinians try to spin it. Hamas was responsible for the civilian casualties, both in starting the aggression and in hiding behind children, in schools, mosques, and hospitals.

The Palestinians can have peace if they want it. they have proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that they don't.

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just too bad it's taken this long. Israel still has the military advantage, but at least they're trying to make changes, and this is good.

Now AAAALLLLLLLLLLLL of the naysayers, and blind obediants who did'nt want to admitt that Israel breaks U.N. laws. White phosphorus.
Terrible. Shameful. They already had the military advantage, on top of that, they had to use illegal tactics. This proves the cruelty of Israeli leadership, and that, if unmonitored, they will continue to ahialate, and opress Palestine. This IS a holocaust.

Solomon – Most people don't think of Israel as an "outlaw state" and wouldn't appreciate 10,000 missiles being fired at their country. That's the basic disagreement. I do think that if compromises, fair ones, on land and all things can be reached, and people leave Israel alone, the bloodshed on both sides can stop. I know you support the war going on and on and on to get your way. I can't.

Holland: Shoes thrown at IDF officer during speech

Captain (Res.) Ron Edelheit asked to speak to members of Jewish community on situation in Israel and Gaza, gets four shoes hurled at him by three pro-Palestinian protestors before even opening his mouth...

I have a question here.
would Holland allow a Palestinian with dual citizenship to go and fight for Palestine?
why would this Dutch Jew allowed to fight in an occupation army?

Amnesty International's unbalanced and biased OPINIONS prove nothing. Israel fought the Hamas Islamic terrorist cowards in accordance with international law. If someone has clear evidence (not opinion) to the contrary, let them bring it to the UN for prosecution. The only war crimes that I've seen substantiated are the ones committed by Hamas. Those war crimes include:

1. Using civilians as human shields.
2. Attacking Israeli civilians.
3. Launching attacks from heavily populated areas.
4. Launching attacks from schools and wiring them with explosives.
5. Launching attacks from and storing weapons in mosques.
6. Launching attacks from hospitals.

I hope the new government forming in Israel will put an end to these Islamic terrorist atrocities as soon as possible. The world will be a better place when Islamic terrorism and its supporters are eradicated.

"Israeli forces used white phosphorus and other weapons supplied by the United States, killing hundreds of civilians and destroying homes, the group said."

of course this is an answer to the cruise missiles that Hamas send to Israel.

Amnesty said its researchers found munitions fragments littering school playgrounds, hospitals and homes after the 22-day fighting in Gaza ended in January"

why would they put schools in civilian area's?
why would they put play ground in civilian area's?
why would they put Hospitals in civilian area's?
it is Hamas Fault.
normal people dont build schools , hospitals, play ground in civilian area's

Dan Rather, Katie Couric, and an Israeli commando were captured by terrorists in Iraq .

The leader of the terrorists told them that he would grant them each one last request before they were beheaded.

Dan Rather said, 'Well, I'm a Texan, so I'd like one last bowlful of hot spicy chili.'

The leader nodded to an underling who left and returned with the chili.

Rather ate it all and said, 'Now I can die content.'

Katie Couric said, 'I'm a reporter to the end. I want to take out my tape recorder and describe the scene here and what's about to happen. Maybe someday someone will hear it and know that I was on the job till the end.'

The terror leader directed an aide to hand over the tape recorder and Couric dictated some comments. She then said, 'Now I can die happy.'

The leader turned and said, 'And now, Mr. Israeli tough guy, what is your final wish?'

'Kick me in the ass,' said the soldier.'

'What?' asked the leader? 'Will you mock us in your last hour?'

'No, I'm not kidding. I want you to kick me in the ass,' insisted the Israeli.

So the leader shoved him into the open and kicked him in the ass. The soldier went sprawling, but rolled to his knees, pulled a 9 mm pistol from under his flak jacket, and shot the leader dead. In the resulting confusion, he jumped to his knapsack, pulled out his carbine and sprayed the terrorists with gunfire.

In a flash, all terrorists were either dead or fleeing for their lives.

As the soldier was untying Rather and Couric, they asked him, 'Why didn't you just shoot them in the beginning? Why did you ask them to kick you in the ass first?'

'What?' replied the Israeli, 'and have you report that I was the aggressor?!

World Traveler,

What area do live exactly in?... Unless you live in Gaza then you are an outsider just like the rest of us.... Amnesty International is unbiased third party who went on the ground to investigate... no like you and the rest of the cowards who are sitting behind your laptops somewhere in europe and trying to twist truth based on instructions you receive from the Israeli embassy to misinform the public.

WOW!!!!!

the professor admitted to being an outsider

then how does he dare talk about israel, he does not live there!!!!!!

Professor. No matter what happens, these hate filled supporters of terror will always support Israel. We could find out that Israel breaks rank w/ Geneva on war crimes (as they have), with torture, with incursions (which they have, and much worse; but this group of blind obediants will always find a way to make it Hamas' fault. I guess it was Hamas' faul that they went over to Palestine and stole their land. Oh, wait, Hamas did'nt exist yet. I guess it's Hamas' fault that Israel broke the 08' cease fire 2x, by invading Gaza territory, and murdering people. And it's obviously Hamas' fault that Israel used white phosphorus against civilians. It's Hamas' fault that Israel broke Geneva rule. But I'm sure some will find an excuse to support the terrorist state of Israel who uses COWARDLY tactics against an already lesser opponent, by using white phosphorus. First, they blockade Palestinian ports from getting medical supplies/food during the cease fire, then they cut electricity during the cease fire, then they break the cesae fire in November...for a second time, then they respond to Hamas' response to their lawlessness, by targeting a university, a hospital, and a U.N. media center. And NOW we have confirmed that they use white phosphorus. How admirable.

It's shameful how one sided people are, and how they feel the rules only apply to others. At the onset of this thing, supporters of Israel were saying that the Palestinian schools were targeted because this was a place of refuge for Hamas...even though the U.N. warned them that civilians were inside. Now, when Palestine did the same.."Hamas are cowards, they attack our children's schools"

Dan Perman. Professor, myself, and anyone else, can speek about what we want. If it were only Middle Easterners on here, there would be like 3 people blogging. That's one. Two, is that if you are Israeli, and think that outsiders cannot share their oppinions...LEAVE this site. This is an AMERICAN site. You can't have your cake and eat it too. We can/will say whatever we want. Go to HAARETZ.com or something.

CS – "It’s shameful how one sided people are." Your one-sided claims have been debunked over and over.

Got anything new?

Good morning. I agree with the Prof, and it chokes me to do it, that an outsider cannot understand everything. I've admitted it several times. Beyond that, and trying to understand both sides, neither one seems very willing to flex and both could be blamed in instances. Boat load of good that does anyone. Perhaps some sort of re-imbursement is due people who have lost land, Gaza people and Israel people. Throwing money at a problem never seems ideal. Thinking outside the box a little, I tend to go there, is there a group of countries, peace organizations, whoever willing to reimburse people with fabrication factories or industry of some kind? I think earning a living is noble. Bombs are not.

To me, for what it's worth, in the short time I've read this stuff, it seems to me that the Middle East needs a unifying factor. Religion isn't the best choice perhaps. People see God as they need to see him. But, if all the sects, different religions, and everyone can come together to help unify and move forward all the countries to make lives better, then that should be the goal. Anyone who expects an easy, perfect life is silly. Planet Earth is tough, but it should be possible to exist and enjoy it for our seventy years.

Draft resolutions for the United Nations Durban II summit on racism brand Israel as an occupying state that carries out racist policies, Haaretz has learned.

United Nations sources relayed on Friday that the resolutions, which will be voted upon at the summit, were formulated at a planning session held by a number of nations in Geneva last week.

They refer to "the plight of Palestinian refugees and other inhabitants of the Arab occupied territories,"

Professor February 23rd, 2009 2026 GMT

World Traveler,

You can disagree all what you want but US Arms Export laws prohibit exporting weapons to countries that use them against civilians…. and the latest attack on Gaza was a proof that Israel targets civilians.
***********************************************************

Not exactly professor! International laws prohibits the use of any weapons against civilians.

US law prohibits arms sales to those who use them for offensive puposes. Israels' claim is that their conflict with Gaza was defensive in nature and your House of Representaives, in January, voted 390-5 in support of Israels' effort in Gaza.

So, you will have a lot of convincing to do in your Congress! Good Luck!!

solomon February 24th, 2009 225 GMT

I have a question here.
would Holland allow a Palestinian with dual citizenship to go and fight for Palestine?
why would this Dutch Jew allowed to fight in an occupation army?

/////////////////////////////////////////////////

Ask the Dutch-- I'm sure they'll tell you since it it of such concern

I have never been a fan of this organization although I'm certain more reports are needed and studies conducted on the situation. I hope the people, all of them, work through these differences and the world is able to help out. It seems like, to me, countries around the world, not just the U.S. had a piece of this pie. The world economy is perhaps crumbling, which seems overstated to me, it has never been rich despite Hollywood CA and big jewels, What is rich? Well it means we make stuff we need and grow what we need and get paper to buy it. So we need to make and grow it first. Bottom Line. Everyone else is extra.

solomon February 24th, 2009 549 GMT

“Israeli forces used white phosphorus and other weapons supplied by the United States, killing hundreds of civilians and destroying homes, the group said.”

of course this is an answer to the cruise missiles that Hamas send to Israel.

Amnesty said its researchers found munitions fragments littering school playgrounds, hospitals and homes after the 22-day fighting in Gaza ended in January”

why would they put schools in civilian area’s?
why would they put play ground in civilian area’s?
why would they put Hospitals in civilian area’s?
it is Hamas Fault.
normal people dont build schools , hospitals, play ground in civilian area’s
***************************************************************

Solomon,

More appropriate questions to ask are:

Why does Hamas put militia bases near schools
Why does Hamas put Militia training facilities near Hospitals?
Why does Hamas take over hospitals to use as detention facilities?
Why does Hamas take over UNRWA facilities to store weapons?
Why does Hamas use Mosques to store weapons?

Someone who cares about their people would not dot this!!

Until those in the ME, very rich with oil right now, get over that and start unifying (that is really really tough) and trading with the next door neighbors which includes Israel, the world will be in chaos. Back in the old days, people had to grow gardens and raise cows to feed their families. Now the world is richer, but we can't just depend on breezing by endlessly.

Professor February 24th, 2009 730 GMT

Amnesty International is unbiased third party who went on the ground to investigate…

******************************************

Professor,

And you really believe that?????? You need to climb out from under your rock!

Amnesty International is not has never been anything except a whining, crying, and slobbering bunch of no nothing libertarians who have no purpose in life other than their own self serving agenda- The continuation of survival at all costs on free handouts from the wealthy and self righteous people of the world!

Besides that----- Hamas and Israel have both rejected their findings calling them baseless and lacking of evidence and objectivity!!

The bottom line is-- this report is dead on arrival!!!

CS February 24th, 2009 1152 GMT

This is an AMERICAN site. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. We can/will say whatever we want. Go to HAARETZ.com or something

************************************************************

CS,

Last time I checked, from Portugal, this blog is on CNN International!

By, the way, great choice for a screen name!

Amnesty Internation uses a few sad stories, emotional ones, gets donations and sends out reports – in my opinion. I might be wrong. I looked them up and read back, but another source of info is never bad. I would like them to build a factory in Gaza to employ people, or even in the U.S. Anywhere.

GLeigh,

Israel has repeatedly offered compensation for the Palestinians to leave-- but they refuse! They value the land more than their wives or family! It's really bizarre!!

GLeigh February 24th, 2009 1459 GMT

Until those in the ME, very rich with oil right now, get over that and start unifying (that is really really tough) and trading with the next door neighbors which includes Israel, the world will be in chaos. Back in the old days, people had to grow gardens and raise cows to feed their families. Now the world is richer, but we can’t just depend on breezing by endlessly.
*************************************************************

That's an issue I've never been able to understand. The oil rich Arab countries of the ME refuse to accept the Palestinians or provide for them.- Go figure.
Egypt has opened the Rafa crossing 3 days in a now, but insist on humanitarian cases only are eligible to cross for medical purposes, students or repatriation of families. Egypt claims that there are only 1000 eligible to cross. Now, what's up with that??
Lebanon, Syria and Jordan keep the Palestinians in refugee camps- They simply don't want them in their countries! Imagine that!
These Palestinian refugees staying in the camps could be integrated into the population of the Arab countries without issue-– yet they remain people without a state and imprisoned by their Arab brothers.
But-- It's Israel that's the bad guy!
Go, figure!!

ha-ha perman...Agree..Israelis are masterful in devious manipulation when it comes to how they portray themselves to the world..

Though I must say..we've all seen photos of Israeli soldiers here and there..unlike our brave Marines...israelis seem anything but "Machos"...skinny..pale...weeping babies at funerals...hiding in tanks firing at Palestinian boys.. Pathetic.

oh wait, did i miss your point? *smacking forehead*

Carlos.

how about giving the Jews compensation to leave dont you think that is easier to do?

would you like to have compensation on your home in Portugal and leave that country? it seems that you hate your land and love your children do you want to sell ?I have a buyer if you are interested.

Bill. What has been debunked. You don't have to take my word for it. Or Mohammed's, or Professor's, or I.B. Wright's, or any other left to center people in here. Last I checked, Amnesty Intl is a pretty large, and credible entity. In fact, this supports our case more than ever, considering the nation of origin of the organization. They have way more sources, and resources than you or me. Now you're trying to say that THEY too are wrong about Israel's behavior. All the facts that I have stated in the past, and all you could comment on was "It's shameful how one sided people are." You are truely reaching right now. Grasping at any attempt to be right, because you have too much pride to admitt that Israel has done a horrible thing, and now the world can see it.

Hey Carlos. Does your keyboard have Portuguese to English translation? And all you can come up with is a lame joke at my screen name? What a winner.

This blog is not about refugee camps, or other nations opening it's doors to Palestinians to come and go as they please, or anything of the sort. It is about Israel's defiance of Geneva, and U.N.

It's funny though. I noticed that they commented on the number of rockets sent into israel over the last 8yrs, but they failed to mention ALL ot the things that Israel has done over the last 8 yrs too. Or am I to beleive that they are totally innocent, and were only retaliating to Palestine? They never mentioned the Blockades, the electricity blackouts by Israel, the prevention of medical supplies and food to Gaza, the settlement camps, the incursions by Israel into Gaza during a signed cease fire...never mentioned any of that stuff.

But hey, this white phosphorus thing is a good breakthrough for today. Let's just hope that more accountability is demanded of Israel for it's part in this.

"Amnesty seeks weapons embargo against Israel, Palestinians."

These guys are such fools!! Once again they open their mouth and confirm it again!!!!

There has been a UN Arms Embargo on the Palestinians since the first Arab/Israeli war in 1948!!!

They should simply waddle there goofy butts over to Iran and demand that Amadinajad refrain from sending any more rockets, munitions, explosives and banned material for making armaments to Gaza!

That will most certainly resolve the problem! BWAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

"Lebanon, Syria and Jordan keep the Palestinians in refugee camps— They simply don’t want them in their countries! Imagine that!"

Carlos.
Yes I can Imagine that. these refugees want to go back to their homes in Palestine they are not interested in any other country.

These Palestinian refugees staying in the camps could be integrated into the population of the Arab countries without issue—– yet they remain people without a state and imprisoned by their Arab brothers.

Carlos.

Palestinians do not want to integrate with any one according to UN resolutions they have a land and they should go back to their land.

there are more Jews in the US than in Israel why dont the Jews of Israel go back and live with their brothers in the US?

solomon February 24th, 2009 1552 GMT

Carlos.

how about giving the Jews compensation to leave dont you think that is easier to do?

would you like to have compensation on your home in Portugal and leave that country? it seems that you hate your land and love your children do you want to sell ?I have a buyer if you are interested
******************************************************************

Solomon!!!!

You can't give what you don't have!!!!!!!!!!

That's why UNWRA has a permanent and world headquarters in Gaza!!!

Everyone there is on the welfare dole!!!!!!!

And another thing-- for the right price, I certainly would sell my home!!! I'm not married to this one or the last one I had or the one before that--

You need to get over it!!!!!

CS February 24th, 2009 1553 GMT

Bill. What has been debunked. You don’t have to take my word for it. Or Mohammed’s, or Professor’s, or I.B. Wright’s, or any other left to center people in here.
******************************************************

CS,

All of your rankings have been consistently and completely refuted–repeatedly. Tudo!

Carlos .

by the way the Buyer of your property will be an Arab who's ancestor left Portugal seven hundred years ago and he likes to go back.

CS February 24th, 2009 1555 GMT

Hey Carlos. Does your keyboard have Portuguese to English translation? And all you can come up with is a lame joke at my screen name? What a winner.
************************************************

CS,

Sorry you took that as joke! Can't you tell when I'm serious?

So, you think keyboards have translation capabilities, huh!

And you wonder why no believes what you post! GEEZ!

CS February 24th, 2009 1603 GMT

It’s funny though. I noticed that they commented on the number of rockets sent into israel over the last 8yrs, but they failed to mention ALL ot the things that Israel has done over the last 8 yrs too. Or am I to beleive that they are totally innocent, and were only retaliating to Palestine? They never mentioned the Blockades, the electricity blackouts by Israel, the prevention of medical supplies and food to Gaza, the settlement camps, the incursions by Israel into Gaza during a signed cease fire…never mentioned any of that stuff.

*****************************************************************

CS,

Interesting comment-– It must be that Amnesty International doesn't consider those as valid issues. I'm sure they would make a big deal out them if they really believed there were any merit to those events!

Thanks for pointing that out!!

Hey, we don't want them, send them to Poland, Germany, or Russia. These are all places that they lived before 1948 anyway. we have enough problems. LOL!

CS – “It’s shameful how one sided people are.”

I was repeating your own words to show you as a hypocrit. You ignore the facts and continue with your Israel bashing agenda despite the facts. Amnesty International has as much validity as Jimmy Carter, just a bunch of whining leftists who blame Israel for being attacked by Islamic terrorists. Let's see how their story would change if their headquarters was constantly attacked by Palestinian rockets and mortars. Organizations like this can't exist without victims to cry over, so they invent some. They have fallen for the "professional victim" status portrayed by the Palestinian con men. The Palestinians have chosen their present condition – constant welfare, aggressively attacking their neighbors, building nothing, destroying everything they can get their hands on, and then lying about it all. I feel a lot worse for the Israelis that need to put up with these violent, hateful, and deceitful beggars.

First of all Carlos. The keyboard thing was a sarcastic poke at your say about CNN international. Let me further clarify it for you. Ahh never mind, if you can't figure that one out, I should'nt waste my time.

CS,

Israel broke close to 60 UN resolutions against it prior to the existence of Hamas even... so what was the excuse then?

Hamas is the excuse now... but if Hamas did not exist they will say a buch of children threw some rocks from Gaza to Israel so we have to invade and take care of them before they grow up and become terrorists.... (a premptive attack) and to their small brains that would be a defensive war.

Dan,

I never claimed anything but being an outsider.... I've always stated that I am not a Palestinian nor do I live in Palestine. But, that should not stop me from getting involved.... as world traveler getting involved.... but I would not claim that I know more than all the Palestinian who live in there and I have contacts with a lot of them.... and I would not claim that I know more than the Israelis who live there and I have contacts with a lot of them.... I have quoted some of them on this blog.... but obviously since they don't follow your zionist agenda then you will dismiss them as you dismiss Amnisty International and all the human rights organizations and all those who spoke against Israeli crimes.... for you if we do not support Israeli crimes then we do not count.

GLeigh,

Oh wow... you finally agreed with me on something.... I am so humbled... :)

CS – I disagree that this blog is about the UN or Israel or who broke what resolutions. Now sure how how you arrived at that conclusion since the title is the "Middle East." This site should be about ways for the ME to exist peacefully, all countries and all religions. Trying to reason with people who don't want to be reasonable or search for peaceful solutions with people who just want a war to go on and on till they get their way is a waste of time and talents. I still think if the missiles into Israel stopped then Israel would stop sending anything back.

Israel did not replace a country. None was on the land. Some people lived there and should have been paid for their land. When the highway department took my parents home to expand the highway, they were paid.

solomon February 24th, 2009 1622 GMT

Carlos .

by the way the Buyer of your property will be an Arab who’s ancestor left Portugal seven hundred years ago and he likes to go back
**************************************************************

Solomon,

I'll have you know -- I am surrounded by Arabs. Primarily Morrocinos, but Tunisians and Algerians as well. A lot of them have been here for decades-- but none of them that I know spew the hatred and support the violence that you do! They have businesses, they contribute to society, their children go to school with mine. My mother-in-law lives in neighborhood called Quinta do Morrocinos!

They are not permanent recipients of welfare living in a UN administered welfare state as are the Palestinians.

The Palestinian people are the only people in the world who have there own personal welfare and refugee agency! Did you know that??? UNRWA administers welfare and aids to the Palestinians and only the Palestinians- no one else!!! ALL other refugees, worldwide are supported by UNHRC!!!!!

Why do you think that is????? It's because UNHRC's objective is to provide temporary assistance with the ultimate goal of returning the refugees to a self sustaining societal environment! As opposed to UNRWA, which is an agency established to maintain the continuing support of the Palestinian refugees on a permanent basis with no intention of these people becoming self sufficient. That's why they created UNRWA and put the UNRWA World Headquarters in Gaza!

Pretty sad- don't you think!!!

So I need not be concerned about you or any of your friends wanting to buy my house!

solomon February 24th, 2009 1610 GMT

“Lebanon, Syria and Jordan keep the Palestinians in refugee camps— They simply don’t want them in their countries! Imagine that!”

Carlos.

Yes I can Imagine that.

Palestinians do not want to integrate with any one according to UN resolutions they have a land and they should go back to their land.

there are more Jews in the US than in Israel why dont the Jews of Israel go back and live with their brothers in the US?
***************************************************************

Solomon,

You why is you that your Arab brothers don't want you in their countries??
I never have been able to understand that!

Yes–I agree– there has been a UN resolution since 1947 that provided land to the Palestinians for an Arab State! So why have the Palestinians failed to accept this??? It was made available at the same time the UN made the Jewish State available to the Jews!

You'll need to ask the Jews of Israel why they don't want to go to the US-– it may be the same reason you give for wanting to go to Egypt or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon.

But at least the Israelis don't rely on their neighbors for their food, clothing, water, electricity, medicines, etc,-- they lead productive lives and make or buy what they need!

Bil, Bill, Bill. It's just futile dealing with you. It doesn't matter if Abraham himself came to your doorstep, and told you that Israel has behaved like animals, you would do whatever you could to discredit him. I've seen it so many times with you far right extremists. When given proof of something that goes against your message, you stop at nothing to discredit the source. Pretty soon you'll be saying the U.N. is allied with Palestine. What's next, who else will you try to smear in order to preserve the Terrorist, Geneva, U.N. resolution breaking Israel?

Professor February 24th, 2009 1723 GMT

CS,

Israel broke close to 60 UN resolutions against it prior to the existence of Hamas even… so what was the excuse then?
******************************************************

Professor,

You're a laugh !!!!!!

How many UN resloutions have been adopted concerning the Arab/Israeli conflict???????

The ANSWER is-- FOUR

Are we simply spewing lies and falsehoods again????

"They've violated 60" , blah, blah, blah,!!!!

Professor-- How many of the FOUR UN resolutions have the Palestinians violated???????

The answer is -– FOUR!!!!!

They've both violated-– All FOUR!!!!!!!

BWAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

You should be on Comedy Central-– maybe the John Stewart show!!!

Ignorant dunces who think that Hamas hides among civilians...pl pick up a wortld map and if you know just the basics of geography find the land of conflict on the map. I bet that you wont be able to, as chances are that you are a high school drop out....The towns and cities like gaza / west bank are in the heart of populated areas. And Israel has build a wall surrounding gaza,,,it is an open air prison.
its v frustrating that people dont educate themselves about an issue and post baseless comments.

side lines – there are empty places, fields, that kind of thing. Israelis urged people to go there before firing. I'm not sure why they didn't go. Yes there are cities too, but it's not one big city.

The fighting in Gaza is "war deluxe." Compared with previous wars

It is enough to look at the pictures coming from Shifa Hospital to see how many burned, bleeding and dying children now lie there. History has seen innumerable brutal wars take countless lives.

But the horrifying proportion of this war, a third of the dead being children, has not been seen in recent memory.

God does not show mercy on the children at Gaza's nursery schools, and neither does the Israel Defense Forces. That's how it goes when war is waged in such a densely populated area with a population so blessed with children. About half of Gaza's residents are under 15.

IDF had killed 952 Palestinian children and adolescents since May 2000.

The public's shocking indifference to these figures is incomprehensible. A thousand propagandists and apologists cannot excuse this criminal killing. One can blame Hamas for the death of children, but no reasonable person in the world will buy these ludicrous, flawed propagandistic goods in light of the pictures and statistics coming from Gaza.

One can say Hamas hides among the civilian population, as if the Defense Ministry in Tel Aviv is not located in the heart of a civilian population, as if there are places in Gaza that are not in the heart of a civilian population.

A significant majority of the children killed in Gaza did not die because they were used as human shields or because they worked for Hamas. They were killed because the IDF bombed, shelled or fired at them, their families or their apartment buildings. That is why the blood of Gaza's children is on Israeli hands, not on Hamas' hands, and we will never be able to escape that responsibility.

The children of Gaza who survive this war will remember it. It is enough to watch Nazareth-born Juliano Mer Khamis' wonderful movie "Arna's Children" to understand what thrives amid the blood and ruin we are leaving behind. The film shows the children of Jenin – who have seen less horror than those of Gaza – growing up to be fighters and suicide bombers

professor

what about palestinian crimes?

Professor. Like I said earkier, they'll never admit to any wrongdoing. And Dan saying something about you being an outsider is just a way to try to discredit you, because you have provided factual inf in here.

side lines February 24th, 2009 1912 GMT

Ignorant dunces who think that Hamas hides among civilians…
**********************************************************

Look who's talking!!!

30% of Gaza is arable uninhabited farmland!!! You may not believe it because you're probably one of those you belittled in your post- you know uneducated, uninformed drop outs!

You can dispute it all you want, it's a documented fact they hide among the civilian populations, have their offices, training camps, weapons stashes among the population. They're certainly not out in the farmland. They store their weapons in the schools, mosques, university buildings and the hospitals. Al Jazeera TV showed this quite plainly during the conflict.

So go whine and cry and slobber your sad plea for charity and self suffering to someone who might believe you-- no one here does!

side lines

wrong again, there is no wall around gaza

Side lines,

It sure amazes me too.... GLeigh and Carlos are clueless about the subject and they try to speak as if they are an authority on it.

Carlos,

In "Deliberate Deceptions: Facing the Facts About US-Israeli Relationship" (Lawrence Hill Books, 1995) author/former Congressman Paul Findley makes the point that Israel, with the collusion of the power elite on our continent, has been successful over the decades in keeping the United Nations on the sidelines in efforts to find a solution to the Middle East problem and to create real peace:

Here is a list of UN Resolutions

1955-1992:

* Resolution 106: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid"

* Resolution 111: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"

* Resolution 127: ". . . 'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem"

* Resolution 162: ". . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions"

* Resolution 171: ". . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria"

* Resolution 228: ". . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"

* Resolution 237: ". . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"

* Resolution 248: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"

* Resolution 250: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"

* Resolution 251: ". . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"

* Resolution 252: ". . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"

* Resolution 256: ". . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation""

* Resolution 259: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"

* Resolution 262: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport"

* Resolution 265: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"

* Resolution 267: ". . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"

* Resolution 270: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon" * Resolution 271: ". . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"

* Resolution 279: ". . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"

* Resolution 280: ". . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon"

* Resolution 285: ". . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"

* Resolution 298: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem"

* Resolution 313: ". . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"

* Resolution 316: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"

* Resolution 317: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"

* Resolution 332: ". . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon"

* Resolution 337: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty"

* Resolution 347: ". . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon"

* Resolution 425: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"

* Resolution 427: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon'

* Resolution 444: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"

* Resolution 446: ". . . 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"

* Resolution 450: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"

* Resolution 452: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"

* Resolution 465: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program"

* Resolution 467: ". . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon"

* Resolution 468: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"

* Resolution 469: ". . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians"

* Resolution 471: ". . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"

* Resolution 476: ". . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'"

* Resolution 478: ". . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'"

* Resolution 484: ". . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"

* Resolution 487: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility"

* Resolution 497: ". . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith"

* Resolution 498: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"

* Resolution 501: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"

* Resolution 509: ". . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"

* Resolution 515: ". . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"

* Resolution 517: ". . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"

* Resolution 518: ". . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"

* Resolution 520: ". . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut"

* Resolution 573: ". . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters

* Resolution 587: ". . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"

* Resolution 592: ". . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops"

* Resolution 605: ". . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians

* Resolution 607: ". . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention

* Resolution 608: ". . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"

* Resolution 636: ". . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians

* Resolution 641: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians

* Resolution 672: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount

* Resolution 673: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations

* Resolution 681: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians

* Resolution 694: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return

* Resolution 726: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians

* Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

(taken from the above-mentioned title, pages 188 – 192)

THE FOLLOWING ARE THE RESOLUTIONS VETOED BY THE UNITED STATES DURING THE PERIOD OF SEPTEMBER, 1972, TO MAY, 1990 TO PROTECT ISRAEL FROM COUNCIL CRITICISM:

* . . . condemned Israel's attack against Southern Lebanon and Syria..."

* . . . affirmed the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, statehood and equal protections. . . "

* . . . condemned Israel's air strikes and attacks in southern Lebanon and its murder of innocent civilians. . . "

* . . . called for self-determination of Palestinian people. . . "

* . . deplored Israel's altering of the status of Jerusalem, which is recognized as an international city by most world nations and the United Nations . . . "

* . . . affirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people . . . "

* . . . endorsed self-determination for the Palestinian people . . . "

* . . . demanded Israel's withdrawal from the Golan Heights . . . "

* . . . condemned Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip and its refusal to abide by the Geneva convention protocols of civilized nations.

* . . . condemned an Israeli soldier who shot eleven Moslem worshippers at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount near Al-Aqsa Mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem. . . "

* . . . urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Lebanon ... "

* . . . urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Beirut. . . "

* . . . urged cutoff of economic aid to Israel if it refused to withdraw from its occupation of Lebanon. . . "

* . . . condemned continued Israeli settlements in occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, denouncing them as an obstacle to peace. . . "

* . . . deplores Israel's brutal massacre of Arabs in Lebanon and urges its withdrawal. . . "

* . . . condemned Israeli brutality in southern Lebanon and denounced the Israeli 'Iron Fist' policy of repression. . . "

* . . . denounced Israel's violation of human rights in the occupied territories. . . "

* . . . deplored Israel's violence in southern Lebanon. . . "

* . . . deplored Israel's activities in occupied Arab East Jerusalem that threatened the sanctity of Muslim holy sites. . . "

* . . . condemned Israel's hijacking of a Libyan passenger airplane. . . "

* . . . deplored Israel's attacks against Lebanon and its measures and practices against the civilian population of Lebanon. . . "

* . . . called on Israel to abandon its policies against the Palestinian intifada that violated the rights of occupied Palestinians, to abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions, and to formalize a leading role for the United Nations in future peace negotiations. . . "

* . . . urged Israel to accept back deported Palestinians, condemned Israel's shooting of civilians, called on Israel to uphold the Fourth Geneva Convention, and called for a peace settlement under UN auspices. . . "

* . . . condemned Israel's . . incursion into Lebanon. . . "

* . . . deplored Israel's . . . commando raids on Lebanon. . . "

* . . . deplored Israel's repression of the Palestinian intifada and called on Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinians. . . "

* . . . deplored Israel's violation of the human rights of the Palestinians. . . "

* . . . demanded that Israel return property confiscated from Palestinians during a tax protest and allow a fact-finding mission to observe Israel's crackdown on the Palestinian intifada . . . "

* . . . called for a fact-finding mission on abuses against Palestinians in Israeli-occupied lands. . . "

(taken from the above-mentioned title, pages 192 – 194)

CS – Abraham had one legitimate son and one illegitimate son. I tend to side with the decendants of his legitimate son, Isaac, not his illegitimate son Ishmael. The decendents of Isaac are righteous people who build prosperous nations and bring people together. The decendents of Ishmael tend to be jealous of the prosperity of their legitimate brothers. They tend to be destructive, tear apart society, and drive people apart with hatred, violence, and war.

It seems you support the terrorists while I support their intended victims.

side lines -

Even Hamas has admitted that it hides behind civilians. Where have you been? Under a rock?

Hamas (see it on youtube): For the Palestinian people death became an industry, at which women excel and so do all people on this land: the elderly excel, the Jihad fighters excel, and the children excel. Accordingly [Palestinians] created a human shield of women, children, the elderly and the Jihad fighters againset the Zionist bombing machine, as they were saying to the Zionist enemy: We desire death as you desire Life.

Carlos,

If I am a laugh... then you are the joke... LOL

You don't even know how to count UN resolutions against Israel.

Is it true that the US is planning to send 900 million dollars to Gaza? I asked this earlier on another blog and I have not gotten a confirmation. I heard it on a financial channel. The woman from the state department accused the UN of being pro-Hammas.

I support Obamawd, but I do not support sending that kind of money to Gaza. They will probably use it to buy rockets. Nor should we send that kind of money to anyone who hates our guts, Furthermore, it no longer matters .... whether people support the Jews or not. We should NOT give money to fund anyone to blow them away in the name of God.

Those people in Gaza should be given humanitarian goods, food, milk, and medicines even shelter...but, not another USA blank check or just plain bundles of cash for the leader's of Hamas,s Swiss Bank Accounts ... by our crazy spend thrift congress.

God help us ... Congress is really beginning to make me very nervous the way that they are handling money. It seems that they just do without a lot of thinking things through.

I guess blogging about reports and weapon control and all is okay. In the 21st century, when we can go to Mars and have CERN, it seems we should be talking about increasing land productivity, advanced robotics to make work easier in manufacturing, getting along and trading with each (even Israel) other so we can get things we don't make, tourism.

Poverty should have been ended over a hundred years ago. Large farm equipment machines and fertilizers are available. Factories have been going now for over a hundred years. Science makes new meds every day. Yet, I see poverty here in the US and in other countries. People should be going to work to contribute or teaching the kids but still we fuss instead of building.

Carolina – I don't know who Congress gives out stuff or money to around the world. I do agress the world economy is suffering everywhere so it will have to all be cut back eventually.

People seem to limit themselves, perhaps out of fear often, but I do think we are advanced in ways. Peace is possible around the world. Will it ever happen; I doubt it. All the reports and studies and resolutions in the world won't bring about peace until people are willing to be peaceful. Talking and realizing it's about compromise and working together might help. Maybe not.

Time to go pick up my gifted young person who is on janitor duty haha! I'm not there, and I don't understand all the complexities. I do hope the people of Israel and Gaza, and everyone else, make advances in peace and that the proud people of Gaza are assisted in any ways possible to become self sustaining, or maybe I should say the Palestinian people. I don't think a war dragging on and on is going to help. The economy is a little scary. Peace.

i did not get an answer professor,

what about the crimes comitted by the palestinians??

Many of you are asking: What is the alternative when Hamas doesn't even recognize Israel. Can someone please define Israeli borders? To be recognized, one must have an I.D. describing his/her weight, height, etc. Likewise, a country should have proper borders, so Israel must define its borders. Israel's borders keep changing every month with illegal settlements being built. Occupation and oppression will not bring peace.

Don't be brainwashed into thinking that Jewish identity starts and finishes with Israel, Judiasm is a faith. Louis is just as Jewish as anyone living in Israel. So don't bash him.

Many of you say that Israel was attacked and this war was to stop the rockets. First of all, accourding to the UN, Israel broke the cease fire on November 4th, 2008 striking into Gaza killing 6 Palestinians. Do your own research.

In Africa, people escape when there is such massacres, but unfortunately here the civilians were trapped by the sea on one end, Egypt's border closure on the other while IDF were advancing on them. This is the largest prison cell known to mankind. And we don't want hamas to rebuild their smuggling tunnels. These tunnels carry food supplies, medicines, computers, generators for civilians because the borders arent open.The continued building of settlements, land appropriations, the barrier and direct military Occupation in the West Bank is directly connected to Gaza.
Part of the complexity of the discussion, I imagine, for the Jewish community in North and South America, Europe, Australia and New Zealand, is that there is a genuine pull to be as 'supportive of Israel' as possible. However, I would suggest that as ( and in particular as Jews in progressive movements) the first priority is the universal principle of human dignity and human worth. That is to say the difficulty faced is in how to negotiate the real need to identify with the greater group to which one belongs while not becoming consumed by that group. Israeli voice and Jewish voice both are seperate, pl dont confuse these two to be one...

Zionist nationalist myth of enforced exile

Israel deliberately forgets its history
An Israeli historian suggests the diaspora was the consequence, not of the expulsion of the Hebrews from Palestine, but of proselytising across north Africa, southern Europe and the Middle East
by Schlomo Sand

Every Israeli knows that he or she is the direct and exclusive descendant of a Jewish people which has existed since it received the Torah (1) in Sinai. According to this myth, the Jews escaped from Egypt and settled in the Promised Land, where they built the glorious kingdom of David and Solomon, which subsequently split into the kingdoms of Judah and Israel. They experienced two exiles: after the destruction of the first temple, in the 6th century BC, and of the second temple, in 70 AD.

Two thousand years of wandering brought the Jews to Yemen, Morocco, Spain, Germany, Poland and deep into Russia. But, the story goes, they always managed to preserve blood links between their scattered communities. Their uniqueness was never compromised.

read the whole article.

http://mondediplo.com/2008/09/07israel

Often times one hears the comment of "why don't Palestinians adopt non-violent disobedience?"

It is part of the narrative to deny Palestinians sympathy. The following demonstrates that when Palestinians do engage in peaceful protest, as very many of them do, they are subject to brutal repression by the Israeli Apartheid state and they are entirely ignored by the mainstream media

Ben White.
the Guardian Feb 20 /2009

It is quite likely that you have not heard of the most important developments this week in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the West Bank, while it has been "occupation as normal", there have been some events that together should be overshadowing Gaza, Gilad Shalit and Avigdor Lieberman.

First, there have been a large number of Israeli raids on Palestinian villages, with dozens of Palestinians abducted. These kinds of raids are, of course, commonplace for the occupied West Bank, but in recent days it appears the Israeli military has targeted sites of particularly strong Palestinian civil resistance to the separation wall.

For three consecutive days this week, Israeli forces invaded Jayyous, a village battling for survival as their agricultural land is lost to the wall and neighbouring Jewish colony. The soldiers occupied homes, detained residents, blocked off access roads, vandalised property, beat protestors, and raised the Israeli flag at the top of several buildings.

read the full article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/20/israelandthepalestinians-israeli-elections-2009

Professor February 24th, 2009 1730 GMT

Dan,

I never claimed anything but being an outsider…. I’ve always stated that I am not a Palestinian nor do I live in Palestine. But, that should not stop me from getting involved…. as world traveler getting involved…. but I would not claim that I know more than all the Palestinian who live in there and I have contacts with a lot of them
********************************************************************

Oh professor!!!!!

what do you call this?????? Do you remember this post????

"I never claimed anything but being an outsider…. I’ve always stated that I am not a Palestinian nor do I live in Palestine."

what is this????-- do you remember this??????

******************************************************************

Professor February 21st, 2009 1648 GMT

GLeigh,

Yes we came here long ago before Hamas started shooting rockets… heck…. we been here long before even Hamas came into existence… remember who started Hamas? He was in Israeli jails…. So, Israel has been opressing the Palestinians way before Hamas rockets… Israel has been steeling lands and destroying homes of Palestinians way way before the birth of Hamas…. so we are here becuase of the Israeli occupation of Palestine. Get it?

***************************************************************

Can you simply not tell the same story 2 days in a row???????

Who is this "WE" stuff????

Professor February 24th, 2009 1949 GMT

Carlos,

In “Deliberate Deceptions: Facing the Facts About US-Israeli Relationship” (Lawrence Hill Books, 1995) author/former Congressman Paul Findley makes the point that Israel, with the collusion of the power elite on our continent, has been successful over the decades in keeping the United Nations on the sidelines in efforts to find a solution to the Middle East problem and to create real peace:

Here is a list of UN Resolutions
*****************************************************

professor,

BWAAAAAA!!!!

Do you understand the difference between being in "violation" of an EXISTING-- UN resolution and having a resolution written "after the fact" "condemning the actions" or " deploring" or "demanding" blah, blah blah, blah.......
**************************************************************
It's like you so plainly stated--

"Professor February 24th, 2009 1723 GMT

CS,
Israel broke close to 60 UN resolutions" ..... blah, blah. blah......

***********************************************

You can't break a resolution that has not yet been written!!!!!

carolina February 24th, 2009 2018 GMT

Is it true that the US is planning to send 900 million dollars to Gaza? I asked this earlier on another blog and I have not gotten a confirmation. I heard it on a financial channel. The woman from the state department accused the UN of being pro-Hammas.
********************************************************

carolina,

The number I saw was $300million for reconstruction, to be administered by the Palestinian Authority. But you need also consider UNRWA which is responsible for feeding, sheltering, educating, clothing and medical care for the Palestinians-– to which the single largest contributor is the US.

There is a very good article describing the efforts of UNRWA in Gaza if you Google "UNRWA Gaza" and look for the article by Forbes.com- it's quite an eye opener as to the relationship of the UN and the Palestinian refugees!

carolina -

I heard similar reports that we are planning on giving massive amounts of our hard earned tax money to support the professional refugees and con men in Gaza. Why rebuild Gaza? They will continue to attack Israel and Israel will be forced to defend itself. It;s just throwing money away until the Palestinians want peace.

I've already written the President and Vice President asking them not to spend a dime on rebuiding the terrorist enclave of Gaza. A more appropriate use of our tax dollars would be to support clean energy projects such as the Orion Project. As soon as we get ourselves off of foreign oil, the money funding Islamic terrorism will dry up. It will also put some pressure on some very bad socialist regimes like the one in Venezuela.

solomon February 24th, 2009 1610 GMT

... there are more Jews in the US than in Israel why dont the Jews of Israel go back and live with their brothers in the US?

Not true. There are about half a million more Jews in Israel than in the USA.

Oh, and I'm still waiting on your answers to my questions that I posted February 18th, 2009 759 GMT in the thread, "Hamas Says It May Consider Shalit's Release."

CS February 24th, 2009 1633 GMT

Hey, we don’t want them, send them to Poland, Germany, or Russia. These are all places that they lived before 1948 anyway. we have enough problems. LOL!

Well, FINALLY you admit what we've known all along, despite your denials - it's not about the poor Palestinians with you, or some righteous outrage over racism. You just hate Jews. You don't want them here in the USA. It's just that simple, despite all the grandiose primping and preening you try to cloak your bigotry in. You finally admit to being the run-of-the-mill, old-fashioned Jew-hater you've denied being all along. Thanks for coming clean at last. It's long overdue.

So much for the back-step shuffle you fumbled through last week when you tried to explain what you meant by "you people."

Tell us again how you ALWAYS stand up for everybody being treated with fairness and righteousness, how you're soooo interested in justice and equality, how you're sooooo against racism and discrimination ... Oh, except for the Jews. We don't want them here, right? Your own words. Thanks for clarifying what you really meant: Fairness and equality for everybody, according to CS - except the Jews!

Jews came to America with Sir Walter Raleigh in the 1600s and hosted the Pilgrims in Holland before they sailed to the New World on the Mayflower. Jews fought in the American Revolution to help win independence from England and have fought in the American armed services in every single American conflict ever since. So yeah, they were here before 1948. Jews also fought and died in the civil rights movement in the 1960s - not to mention helped fund it.

Yes, Jews died for YOU and the rights you enjoy today, CS. And my guess is they'd do it all again, even while you and your terrorist-loving buddies roll around on the frat house floor covering yourselves in the noxious verbal vomit you spew .

Aside from your cluelessness about the history of Jews in America (and, as we've repeatedly seen, in Arab countries too), you also put your astonishing ignorance on blinking neon display about the history of Jews in Israel. Jews weren't there before 1948? Well, I believe Jesus would join me in calling bulls–t on that one.

Oh, and by the way, I'm still waiting on the evidence that I requested from you (February 19th, 2009 511 GMT) in the thread "Hamas Says It May Consider Shalit's Release" to back up your false charges. Apparently you've "overlooked" that request. How convenient. Don't worry - I won't hold you to it. For one thing, the evidence I requested from you doesn't exist, and for another, you've pretty much given conclusive proof that you're incapable of producing it even if it did. The best we could hope from you is another fabrication. Don't bother.

Carolina and Bill –

I heard that same $900 million figure. Like Bill, I've done my letter-writing too. It included the request that NO U.S. taxpayer money go to UNWRA or to rebuilding Gaza until Hamas shows some inclination for anything besides violence.

Carlos –

In your response to the professor (February 25th, 2009 039 GMT), you forgot to mention that the book he cites was written by a former Congressman who promptly went to work for the Palestinian lobby as soon as voters booted him out of office.

Here is a Palestinian answers to your lie: (I took this from a Palestinian protestor's sign):

You
Take my water
Burn my olive trees
Destroy my house
Take my job
Steal my land
Imprison my father
Kill my mother
Bomb my country
Starve us all
Humiliate us all
But
I am to blame: I shot a rocket back

Carlos,

I told you.... you really do not know how to read... and you take things out of context and twist them in your head and then accuse the others of being liars.... just becuase you don't get it.

I pitty you.

Carolina,

I heard that same $900 million figure. Like Bill and Nona, I’ve done my letter-writing too in support of that measure. It included the request that NO U.S. taxpayer money go to Israel to be used to murder civilians in Gaza and until Israel shows some inclination for anything besides violence.

i have written to Obama asking that no UStaxpayer money goes to Hamas until they stop firing rockets and mortars and stop advocating murdering civilians in Israel and until they show some inclination for anything besides terror and kidnapping

side lines

reading your collection of wrong information, i suggest that you stayexactly there, on the side lines

Solomon:
"An Israeli historian suggests the diaspora was the consequence, not of the expulsion of the Hebrews from Palestine, but of proselytising across north Africa, southern Europe and the Middle East"

the lengths you will go to lie are unbelievable. The jewish religion forbids proselytising, unlike the christians

Professor February 25th, 2009 957 GMT

Carlos,

I told you…. you really do not know how to read… and you take things out of context and twist them in your head and then accuse the others of being liars…. just becuase you don’t get it.

I pitty you.
**************************************************************************

professor,

I get it perfectly fine! You think because the UN drafts something but it never gets it adopted, it's some kind of binding rule that the world needs to follow!

Per your thought process–for example-- if you gave your child a curfew of midnight on Friday and the child had been out past midnight on Wednesday night or Thursday night -- you'd punish your child for violating curfew!

That's your warped viewpoint of how someone can be in "violation" of resolutions!!!! Create a resolution today and then claim violations for something that happened last week!

And then you go create a list of proposed resolutions that were NEVER adopted-- as if these mean anything!!!! Who, other than you, cares what resolutions were drafted and discussed if they were never adopted??? The answer is NO ONE!!! But it's nice you took the time to research meaningless trivia!!!

Dan,

and President Obama needs to listen to you exactly why?.... do live in the US or you have a dual citizenship as the rest of you do?

Those of you in the US writing to your President or Congress, if you seriously intend on putting forth a degree of fairness and neutrality as many of you so claim,--

You should also make a point to request that all US funding which support the Hamas run aid organization officially known as UNRWA be eliminated as well.The money spent with this organization is also being used to fund Hamas militants, recruitment, weapons training, weapons purchases, smuggling of rockets, munitions and banned items as well as black market activities.

You should additionally make it a point to Obama and your Congressmen that even the delivery of food, blankets and medical supplies to the refugees of Gaza is subject to being stolen by the Hamas and then sold to the refugees or on the black market.

NONA. YOU ARE JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER BLEEDING HEART SUPPORTER OF ISRAEL! YOU ALL SEEM TO THINK THAT ANY TIME ANYONE THINKS OR SPEEKS OTHER THAN TENDERLY ABOUT JEWS THAT THEY'RE AN ANTI SEMITE, AND I'M TIRED OF IT. YOU'R PEOPLE MAY HAVE NEEDED THIS KIND OF SYMPATHY AFTER WWII, BUT IT'S OVER FOR QUITE A WHILE NOW. JUST BECAUSE I SAID THAT I DON'T WANT TO FOSTER A WHOLE NATION OF PEOOLE, DOES NOT MAKE ME A RACIST, OR ANTI SEMITE OR ANYTHING ELSE! I WOULD HAVE SAID THE SAME ABOUT MEXICO, OR RUSSIA, OR CANADA, OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY! IF YOU HAVE NOT NOTICED, OUR COUNTRY IS IN A BIT OF A CRISIS RIGHT NOW, ON MANY FRONTS. SO WHY WOULD I WANT TO TAKE IN ALL OF ISRAEL, IF WE HAVE POVERTY, AND CRIME, AND ECONOMIC CRISIS, AND ALL THE OTHER MESS THAT BUSH LEFT FOR OBAMA TO CLEAN UP, AND FOR OUR CHILDREN'S CHILDREN TO PAY FOR? YOU HAVE MISJUDGED ME, AND WANT TO PUT BLOOD ON THE HANDS OF AYONE WHO WANTS TO QUESTION ISRAEL'S MORAL, OR JUDGEMENT. DO NOT ADRESS ME!!!!

I'm not that young. I know that aide sent to other places is sometimes taken by those with guns and sold. It's happened many, many times. Food and meds are needed there though. I don't like the system, but no asked me. People still need those things.

Professor February 25th, 2009 956 GMT

Here is a Palestinian answers to your lie: (I took this from a Palestinian protestor’s sign):

You
Take my water
Burn my olive trees
Destroy my house
Take my job
Steal my land
Imprison my father
Kill my mother
Bomb my country
Starve us all
Humiliate us all
But
I am to blame: I shot a rocket back
******************************************************

Professor,

This is a Palestinian civilian protestor in Gaza during a pro Fatah rally against the Hamas!!!

Did you know that???? If you did I'm sure you would not have posted it !!!!

"Oh, and I’m still waiting on your answers to my questions that I posted February 18th, 2009 759 GMT in the thread, “Hamas Says It May Consider Shalit’s Release.”

Nona.

Idont know what you are talking about.

and who is this Shalit ,by the way?

CS – I think Nona studies the world. I enjoy her posts. If you support Israel does that make someone a "bleeding heart" or just a person who thinks someone in the ME should like the U.S.? I don't like using all caps. "BLEEDING HEART?" I like the people in Gaza too, Palestinian people. My heart wishes all would end this war. That's not my call.

Bill. I saw a ways back that you wanted to get into scripture. Let's. This is the thing about those who take the bible, and twist it for their own sick purposes.

I DO NOT SUPPORT TERROR!!!!! I have REPEATEDLY renounced Hamas, and their charter, and their way of getting things done. I have argued HEAVILY, with other supporters of Palestine, and Israel alike.
So your accusation againd=st me is baseless, and a bag of hot air.

Now, back to the scripture. I will give you the word of GOD>

And the lord said to Abraham;
"Be not displeased because of the lad, and because of your slave woman; Whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring."
Gen 21:12-13

And God was with the lad, and he grew up; He lived in the wilderness, and became an expert with the bow. He lived in the wilderness of Paran; And his mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt.
Gen 21:17-19.

Bill. Dispite your obvious limited knowledge, and or understanding of the bible, you know a little bit. Which makes me beleive that you CHOOSE to be evil. You choose to think that some are better than others because of who they are. Jews, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, and all other types, have sinned, and done so greatly, wich puts us all in the same category with God. God creates nothing by accident. Your way of thinking shows that you need to look at the books of Chronicles, and Kings, and learn about how the Jews sinned time and time again, until angering God enough to sow up Heaven, and not speak to man anymroe. Jews are no more deserving of fair treatment than anyone else.

Professor. Why does Dan think that we should stop funds fromgoing to Hamas, if we have supplied them in the past to the terrorist state if Israel? Very wealthy private citizens here in the U.S. donate $ to Israel to build these settlement communities in Gaza (which is illegal), and nobody says that U.S. citizens are contributing to conflict. Nobody is being charged with aiding opression, or terror, or the use of white phosphorus.

CS February 25th, 2009 1406 GMT

JUST BECAUSE I SAID THAT I DON’T WANT TO FOSTER A WHOLE NATION OF PEOOLE, DOES NOT MAKE ME A RACIST, OR ANTI SEMITE OR ANYTHING ELSE

*****************************************************************
CS February 24th, 2009 1633 GMT

"Hey, we don’t want them, send them to Poland, Germany, or Russia. These are all places that they lived before 1948 anyway. we have enough problems. LOL!"

**********************************************************************

CS,

You can scream and shout and whine and cry and lie about what you posted all you want to!

Who is it you don't want?? You're no different than the Hamas! Hamas wants to drive into the sea, you want to deport them to Europe, blah, blah, blah........ !!!!

The facts are the facts! And your rantings are nothing except racial and social hatred, discrimination and bigotry. Professing that you " WOULD HAVE SAID THE SAME ABOUT MEXICO, OR RUSSIA, OR CANADA, OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY" simply confirms your attitude of discrimination!

"YOU ALL SEEM TO THINK THAT ANY TIME ANYONE THINKS OR SPEEKS OTHER THAN TENDERLY ABOUT JEWS THAT THEY’RE AN ANTI SEMITE, AND I’M TIRED OF IT."--– Well then-– you need to find somewhere else to blog where there are people who will sympathize with you attitude if you can't handle it here!

There is no excuse for you and your attitude so why attempt to justify it!

So you dare to use your domestic US problems as an excuse for your belligerent attitude and a basis for your discriminatory and racist attitude toward the Jews!!!!

What's the problem CS-- "DO NOT ADRESS ME!!!!" ???? Does the truth hurt????

Is your caps lock button broke??? Too bad you can't figure out how to increase your font size on your posts-– no one can hear you screaming an hollering!!!

Get over it-- !!!!!

Professor,

Since you live in California in the USA-– why do you post such nonsense as below???

Especially since you've stated that you NEVER misrepresent yourself!!!
***************************************************************************
professor February 21st, 2009 1648 GMT

GLeigh,

Yes we came here long ago before Hamas started shooting rockets… heck…. we been here long before even Hamas came into existence… remember who started Hamas? He was in Israeli jails…. So, Israel has been opressing the Palestinians way before Hamas rockets… Israel has been steeling lands and destroying homes of Palestinians way way before the birth of Hamas…. so we are here becuase of the Israeli occupation of Palestine. Get it?
***********************************************************************
February 25th, 2009 019 GMT

Professor February 24th, 2009 1730 GMT

Dan,

I never claimed anything but being an outsider…. I’ve always stated that I am not a Palestinian nor do I live in Palestine. But, that should not stop me from getting involved…. as world traveler getting involved…. but I would not claim that I know more than all the Palestinian who live in there and I have contacts with a lot of them
************************************************************************

Professor,

You need to be careful when you post lies and untruths-- people who read what you post will figure you out if can't keep your stories straight!!!

Who is the "WE" you speak of????

Hamas????

Or maybe the Mexicanos in California??

CS February 25th, 2009 1432 GMT

Professor. Why does Dan think that we should stop funds fromgoing to Hamas, if we have supplied them in the past to the terrorist state if Israel? Very wealthy private citizens here in the U.S. donate $ to Israel to build these settlement communities in Gaza (which is illegal), and nobody says that U.S. citizens are contributing to conflict. Nobody is being charged with aiding opression, or terror, or the use of white phosphorus
*********************************************

CS,

Who told you that Israel is building settlement communities in Gaza?????

Where did you learn this????

Did professor tell you this???? Or did you simply fabricate this in your own little mind all by yourself???

By the way it is against US law for anyone in the US to supply funds of any kind to Hamas!!!

Did you not know that???

It's no different than sending funds to Al Qaeda! Do you know what happens to US citizens who get caught sending funds to Hamas????

not a single reply to any facts presented, only accusations, false quotes and insults

that's the only way you israel bashers can defend hamas terror

I don't hide behind any of my words. I meant what I said about Israel belonging in east Germay. I have said this many many times in here. If Germany was the one who committed the crimes of the holocaust, than THEY should have to take the burden. I have said it before. I have no shame in any of my beleifs. Because I disagree with some of you, does not make you or I superior. I can beleive the truth, and you can beleive, whatever you choose to beleive. I really don't care. It's not like I think any amount of proven facts given by Haaretz, CNN, NPR,
Amnesty International, or any other organization, will get through your thick skulls. All you will try to do is discredit them. All hail to Carlos ...OH please. You act like you are the all knowing, sanctioning body on who is credible and who is not. And it just so happens that every time a LARGE (excuse the caps) organization produces news that disagrees with you, you try to debunk them, as if you are somebody.

CS – I cannot believe that you just quoted Genesis, of all things. This was written over a thousand years ago – two thousand? We can't even understand it. Of course Hamas should not get funding. How odd is that? It's a terror organization and uses human shields, Gaza people, and fires on Israel. That's not a new thing or an insight. But we should still feel pity for the people in Gaza.

A weapons embargo against the terrorist state that uses white phosphorus. Good step. Now maybe Israel will start to see that (godwilling) the U.S will not blindly support Israel, if she continues to stray from U.N. resolutions. If the world calls for Islamic states to be held to standard, then the Israelis should be held to task as well. No more babying Israel.

CS – The U.S. does not "blindly" do anything. I don't appreciate the insult frankly. We don't babysit anyone, ask my relatives who work 60 hours a week and get by. I don't know where you live, or care. Life in the U.S. has never been some Hollywood picnic and isn't now. Most of us think on our own which is why we are here to begin with, we disagreed with our home countries and migrated. My ancestors did just after the Pilgrims, but close.

Is white phosphorus a false quote, insult, or accusation?

Did Hamas use white phosphorus?

Yes or no will do.

CS,

Dan is supporting the siege of Gaza on the Palestinian civilian population to starve them to death so when the US and the rest of the world tried to pour money on Gaza (just like the US does to Israel) then they cry foul....

They do not like equal treatment.... He thinks he is more superior to the human beings that live in Gaza. But, the world think otherwise. Thank God.

My poor boy dan perman..Did you really write a letter to Obama, son??....

I hope you'll share his reply, most likely Obama will speak the voice of his people...

Here's what he would say;

Get off your lazy ass, get a job...stand tall on your own. We have done a lot and more for you..No one owe's you a financial or military obligation.

The people of the US are broke, in dept, homeless and jobless. (3 billion annual in taxpayers) for decades now, and still milking us. You regard the Palestinian people as inferiors race...you kill them, steal their homes...build settlements on their land..you invade, kill civilians by the 1000's, and show no remorse... You have been destabilizing that region for decades, creating war after war...(under the pretext of self defense), and you're asking me for WHAT??? ha-ha-ha-

Gee CS. Writing a whole post in great big all-caps is a great way to show everybody how well-thought your posts are. We all know that a fact-based response is so lame compared to, say, an emotional one. You really drove that point home!!!

CS February 25th, 2009 1406 GMT

... YOU ALL SEEM TO THINK THAT ANY TIME ANYONE THINKS OR SPEEKS OTHER THAN TENDERLY ABOUT JEWS THAT THEY’RE AN ANTI SEMITE, AND I’M TIRED OF IT.

"You all?" Tsk tsk tsk. Why not just say "you people" again?

Making such a convenient generalization about what "we all" seem to think is perfectly in line with all the other assumptions and blanket generalizations you habitually make, CS. But the fact is that it's not what I think at all. You, however, seem to think that prohibiting whole class of people from living in a country based on their race, religion nationality etc. is NOT racism and discrimination. You're not an anti-Semite because you speak less than tenderly about the Jews. You're an anti-Semite for many reasons, and I highlighted one of them: you don't want want Jews in the USA for no other reason than because they're Jews. You can claim that such a position doesn't make you anti-Semitic, but in fact it's a classic example of anti-Semitism. I'm sure it will astound you to know that you're not the first genius to have this particular unoriginal thought.

YOU’R PEOPLE MAY HAVE NEEDED THIS KIND OF SYMPATHY AFTER WWII, BUT IT’S OVER FOR QUITE A WHILE NOW.

What exactly is the statute of limitations for sympathy for "my" people? For that matter, what is the acceptable sympathy period for black Americans? For Mexican immigrants? For Vietnamese refugees? The Palestinians? The Kosovars? The Congolese? The Chilean victims of Pinochet? The Tsutsis and Hutus of Rwanda? Is the "sympathy period" for all persecuted people of equal length, or is it longer for some than for others. Please - enlighten us.

JUST BECAUSE I SAID THAT I DON’T WANT TO FOSTER A WHOLE NATION OF PEOOLE, DOES NOT MAKE ME A RACIST, OR ANTI SEMITE OR ANYTHING ELSE! I WOULD HAVE SAID THE SAME ABOUT MEXICO, OR RUSSIA, OR CANADA, OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY!

Advocating denial of entry of Jews to the USA just because they're Jews does make you an anti-Semite. The fact that you would also deny entry to Mexicans, Russians and Canadians based on their national origin also makes you a bigot. Being against lots of groups based on their race, religion or nationality doesn't mean you're not a bigot. It just means you're a really big one.

IF YOU HAVE NOT NOTICED, OUR COUNTRY IS IN A BIT OF A CRISIS RIGHT NOW

This is the same rationale that bigots have used for eons to justify genocide and wars. It's also been used for years to justify apathy toward such atrocities.

Yawn.

YOU HAVE MISJUDGED ME, AND WANT TO PUT BLOOD ON THE HANDS OF AYONE WHO WANTS TO QUESTION ISRAEL’S MORAL, OR JUDGEMENT.

I haven't misjudged you. Your words are quite clear, and that's what my comments to you are based on. I don't call you a bigot because you question Israel's "MORAL OR JUDGEMENT." I call you a bigot because you make blanket generalizations about entire classes of people based on stereotypes and assumptions, and you would deny them rights or liberty - or even sympathy based upon those stereotypes. Nobody's misjudged you: your own words have revealed you.

DO NOT ADRESS ME!!!!

Gladly. Please give me a reason not to.

CS,

Why do you think Israel belongs in East Germany??? Who told you this?? East Germany doesn't exist-- you know this, right??

Who told you that Israel is building settlement communities in Gaza?????

You also claimed in post the other day that Hamas had released Shallit and you were sure that his family was very excited!

Who told you this?? Please share your knowledge with us so we call share in the joy of the event!

You need not try to belittle others of their proficiencies or depth of knowledge-- Just answer the questions above?

You made the statements!!! No one else!

Please share your knowledge with the rest of us!

CS February 25th, 2009 1521 GMT

A weapons embargo against the terrorist state that uses white phosphorus. Good step.
*******************************************************************

Maybe a better first step would be for you to convince your DOD from making it!!!!!!!

Have you ever thought of that??????

Wow, if you make, sell it --- what do you think the end user is going to do with it ???

DUH!!!!!

Do you really think that if the Israelis had used high explosive shells instead that there would have been less carnage???

CNN:Since the two sides declared a cease-fire on January 21, militants have sporadically fired rockets into Israel.

SPORADICALLY??????????

With the two rocket attacks on Wednesday, the Israeli military said more than 100 rockets, mortar shells and missiles have been fired at Israel by Palestinian militants in Gaza since Hamas leaders agreed to a cease-fire on January 18.

GLeigh

why do you keep trying? did you ever see an answer to any of my questions or facts?

for example:

An Israeli historian suggests the diaspora was the consequence, not of the expulsion of the Hebrews from Palestine, but of proselytising across north Africa, southern Europe and the Middle East”

the lengths you will go to lie are unbelievable. The jewish religion forbids proselytising, unlike the christians

where is the answer?

CS – You can't hide behind your words of hate for the Jews and Israel. You are sooo transparent. You might as well have a Hamas flag draped around your head. Nona really has your number, Carlos too. Your knowledge of the Bible is useless to you. With the whole Bible at your disposal, you have failed to make any points disproving what I have said.

Jesus was a Jew and he was not a terrorist supporter.

You treat your opinions as proven facts, and when the facts come to light they almost always disagree with your opinions.

You have been exposed. Your credibility was low before, now it is zero.

CS February 25th, 2009 1505 GMT

I meant what I said about Israel belonging in east Germay. I have said this many many times in here. If Germany was the one who committed the crimes of the holocaust, than THEY should have to take the burden.

Wow. By that rationale, Liberia should be in England or Holland, since it was the English and the Dutch who kidnapped the Africans from their homeland and sold them into slavery. Historic origin, religious significance and geographic heritage are apparently irrelevant: it's all about retribution to the persecutors, not about doing the right thing for the persecuted!

The ridiculous argument that CS makes is made repeatedly by others too. In one way, it's utterly self-defeating, since the Arab powers completely allied with Germany in World War II, including the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, and did everything possible to support their atrocities.

But this argument's true great failure is the completely obnoxious disregard for the religious and historic heritage of Judaism by the people who make it. Jerusalem became Judaism's holy city 1,000 years before Christ and has remained so ever since! Jews pray toward Jersusalem! They mention the city in their prayers! It's the only majority Jewish city on Earth! It was David's capital!

To suggest that the only Jewish state on Earth shouldn't have its capital in Jersusalem is pretty much the lowest low possible when it comes to religious insensitivity and callousness. Who would seriously suggest that Mecca shouldn't be in an Islamic state, or Vatican City in a Christian state, or Varanasi in a Hindu state?

The Jewish state should be in Germany?? Really?

I can't think of a clearer example of a statement fueled by a clearer or more insidious spirit of downright meanness.

solomon February 25th, 2009 1420 GMT

“Oh, and I’m still waiting on your answers to my questions that I posted February 18th, 2009 759 GMT in the thread, “Hamas Says It May Consider Shalit’s Release.”

Nona.

Idont know what you are talking about.

----–

Well, I gave you the name of the thread and the exact time and date it was posted. Look it up if you can figure out how.

Nice deflection away from the inaccurate statement you earlier threw out as a fact, tho.

Nona,

Jerusalem is a holy city not only to Jews... Its a holy city to the Christians too... Its a holy city to the Muslims as well.

So, you cannot justify your claim to the city more than any Christian or a Muslim Palestinian would.

So, have you thought for a solution to your dilemma? come on it does not take a genius to come up with one instead of just whinning.

Hope February 25th, 2009 1652 GMT

My poor boy dan perman..Did you really write a letter to Obama, son??….

I hope you’ll share his reply, most likely Obama will speak the voice of his people…

Here’s what he would say;
*****************************************************************

No Hope,

Here's what he would say!

I and the American people want to thank you from the bottom of our hearts for being our staunch supporter and a great contribution to the US economy.

I want to thank you personally for your spending of $22Biliion in the US with purchases from US companies in 2008 and hope that we can continue on this path in the future.

As you know our economy is in turmoil and deep recession. However, one bright spot is that the money you, Israel, spends in the US each and every year supports the full time employment of approximately 200,000 hard working US citizens and an additional untold 10's of thousands of US citizens' jobs depend on you spending policy in an indirect fashion.

If it were not for the continued support received fro Israel, our economy would be in a much more dire situation. Our citizens can ill afford to loose over 200,000 jobs which your purchases support.

Sincerely,

Barack Hussein Obama

CS – I don't know if Hamas used white phosperous. Only if someone gave it to them. My point is, people should stop attacking other people and quoting from the past and work on the future. The future does not look like it's going to be easy. People in Gaza need help building a future to become self sufficient. They need a government dedicated to it.

Now I'm supposed to take the advice of someone who tells me to abandon the bible, by not quoting it. No doubt, I'll get right on that.
Hold your breath.

Professor, Hope. This is exactly what I mean. I state a fact, that Israel goes against U.N. and Geneva, by using illegal tactics, and I'm Hamas all of a sudden. I'v stated facts about the first and second cease fire breach by Israel (CNN, HAARETZ), I've stated facts about the attempts by Israel to starve Gaza of food and medical supplies (NPR,CNN, MSNBC), I've stated facts about the origin of this conflict (www.ifamericansknew.org)....I've commented on the good work of Amnesty International on exposing Israel's illegal behavior, and Professor, and I.B. Wright, and Solomon, and both Mohammed's, and many others have stated facts, and backed them up with their sources. ALL (excuse the caps) of us, including our sources (some of which are Israeli and/or Jewish) are made out to be liars, story tellers, biased, and as of late...members of Hamas.

Now I'm being told not to go to the bible to make points. This is really funny. I am told to stop going to my religious beleifs, and do what someone else wants me to do. I've never heard any of the hypocrites in here tell Jews to stop being Jews, or that they should not take their religion so seriously, or that their religious teachings are a thing of the past, and to look toward the furture. I'm being told that I hate Jews, and am a Mamas flag waver. This is funny. Good source of laughter if anything.

Professor February 25th, 2009 1809 GMT

Nona,

Jerusalem is a holy city not only to Jews… Its a holy city to the Christians too… Its a holy city to the Muslims as well.

So, you cannot justify your claim to the city more than any Christian or a Muslim Palestinian would.

So, have you thought for a solution to your dilemma? come on it does not take a genius to come up with one instead of just whinning.
*************************************************************

professor,

The Christians have no issue with the current status of Jerusalem, so that's a non-issue! Always has been a non-issue! So, why try to make it an issue??

There has been solution on the table since the 1947 UN Resolution 181 for the Arab/Israeli issue. The Israelis accepted it- the Arabs did not. So, it hardly seems to be an issue that the Israelis need to resolve. The ball is in the hands of the Arabs-– they just haven't figured out how to play ball in 60 years!

You can't help someone, the Arabs, who don't want to help themselves.

But if that's not acceptable to the Arabs, then I guess they simply need to resolve themselves to the status quo!

What's so difficult about that to understand??

All I can say is that dealing with some of you (Harvey and I have had some progress in the past, and GLeigh) supporters of Israel is like being back at the schoolyard, playing with the bullies. And when you finally beat them at the game, they say NNOOOO, and change the rules of the game.

You'll never admitt any wrongdoing, no matter WHO (excuse the caps)
provides the proof. So why bother with you?

CS – Who told you to abandon the Bible. I read back and can't find it. I don't think quoting from two thousand years ago is particularly helpful in this discussion, if that's what you mean. I never said abandon anything. I'm not asking you to take my advice either. It would be a waste of time. I do think discussion is helpful, in general. I'm learning anyway. Since we are going back thousands of years anyway, two thousand years ago Jerusalem was controlled by the Roman Empire but Jewish people lived there, from what little I've read about in the history of this area. I'm not learning a lot of new stuff right now. Later.

CS,
You can read the Bible all you want, just not pretend to know what it means-- you say stupid things as a result!

But-- why do you keep ignoring my questions about the things you've posted????

After all- these are all things you posted!!!!! So you shouldn't have great difficulty in clarifying these for the rest of us!!!

1) Why do you think Israel belongs in East Germany??? Who told you this?? East Germany doesn’t exist—- you know this, right??

2) Where did you learn that Israel is building settlement communities in Gaza?????

You also claimed in post the other day that Hamas had released Shallit and you were sure that his family was very excited!

Who told you this?? Please share your knowledge with us so we call share in the joy of the event!

Are these simply too difficult to answer or are they more of your falsehoods, fantasies or figments of your imagination???

Come on CS, if your going to post it then you should be able to own up to and support it!!!!

CS February 25th, 2009 1848 GMT

Professor, Hope. This is exactly what I mean. I state a fact, that Israel goes against U.N. and Geneva, by using illegal tactics, and I’m Hamas all of a sudden.
**********************************************************************

CS,

Explain-– who left it up to pass judgement on anyone????

So, far no one, to my knowledge has been convicted of any violations of the Geneva convention or the UN for any reasons!-- such as your statements above.

So you need not whine and cry and slobber to your friends professor, No Hope, Mohammed, mooshy, moses, Solomon or the rest of your radical sympathizers-"no one believes me when i tell the truth"!!!

Grow up!!!!!

Still can't answer the questions about your posts I've asked about 3 times now???

Just change the subject-- you learned that one from professor!!!

BWAAAAA!!!!!

GLeigh February 25th, 2009 1900 GMT

CS – Who told you to abandon the Bible. I read back and can’t find it.

*************************************************************

GLeigh,-– he does this all the time,-- he attempts to translate what people post into something more easy for him to comprehend, something like "CS-ese" or other nonsensical gibberish. Then he turns around and posts comments about the statement based on his own translation which usually has little or nothing to with the original post! Then when someone calls him on it, he whines and cries and slobbers to professor or solomon or whichever of his supporters are on the blog saying that "we're picking on him"- you know the "schoolyard bullies" as he says!!!

He just doesn't seem to get it

Professor February 25th, 2009 1809 GMT

Nona,

Jerusalem is a holy city not only to Jews… Its a holy city to the Christians too… Its a holy city to the Muslims as well. So, you cannot justify your claim to the city more than any Christian or a Muslim Palestinian would.

I am well aware that Jerusalem is a holy city to Christianity and Islam. Of course Muslims and Christians should have access to their shrines and holy sites there, as they do and have had as long as the state of Israel has existed. You're missing the point though: Islam has it's most holy city. Why can't Judaism have its most holy city too?

You can indeed make an argument that Jerusalem is the No. 1 holy city to Christianity. But to my knowledge, nobody is suggesting that Israel should be a Christian state with Jerusalem as its capital. In fact, most Christians - at least in the U.S. - agree that Israel should be the capital of the Jewish state. In the great scheme of resolving the conflict in the region, Christian claims to Jerusalem or establishment of Israel as a Christian state aren't an issue.

Nobody's claiming that Jerusalem is Islam's No. 1 holy city, or even its No. 2 - not even Muslims. I find it rather perplexing that some of the most devoted followers of Islam and some of its most powerful adherents would deny the people of another faith the same rights to their No. 1 holy city that they themselves enjoy over their own. Jews pray toward Jerusalem; Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

Muslims should definitely have access to their shrines and sites in Jerusalem. Nobody's sayng they shouldn't. But Jerusalem is the No. 1 holy city to Judaism and arguably Christianity too. Why is that so hard to respect as long as everybody has access their holy places?

So, have you thought for a solution to your dilemma? come on it does not take a genius to come up with one instead of just whinning.

That's a good question for the Palestinians to consider. So far, their only answer has been to drive Israel and the Jews into the sea. But if you're asking me, I think Clinton came up with a darn good solution: joint control of Jerusalem. Israel agreed to it. The Palestinians refused it.

CS February 25th, 2009 1857 GMT

All I can say is that dealing with some of you (Harvey and I have had some progress in the past, and GLeigh) supporters of Israel is like being back at the schoolyard, playing with the bullies. And when you finally beat them at the game, they say NNOOOO, and change the rules of the game
**************************************************************

Show me the last ime you beat Anybody at the game!!!!!!!

BWAAAAAAA!!!!! BWAAAAAA!!!!!!

nona

on Jerusalem:

jews were denied access to the holiest places in judaism during the jordanian occupation of jerusalem before 1967, they used gravestones to build donkey stalls and desecrated the western wall

christians and muslims are allowed to visit their holy places since 1967, much more tahn the arabs allowed which (according to the israel bashers on this blog) "always protected the jews under their rule,

what bull, what lies

i still do not get answers to my questions, e.g. re solomon above

"CS February 25th, 2009 1857 GMT

All I can say is that dealing with some of you (Harvey and I have had some progress in the past, and GLeigh) supporters of Israel is like being back at the schoolyard, playing with the bullies. And when you finally beat them at the game, they say NNOOOO, and change the rules of the game.

You’ll never admitt any wrongdoing, no matter WHO (excuse the caps)
provides the proof. So why bother with you?"

why indeed, just leave

if it is too hot in the kitchen for you, just get out

these are your arguments? WOW

and now to the lies of the israel bashers on who broke the ceasefire.

this is what AP reported :

Associated Press / June 25, 2008
JERUSALEM – Palestinian militants fired three homemade rockets into southern Israel yesterday, threatening to unravel a cease-fire days after it began, and Israel responded by closing vital border crossings into Gaza

NOTE THE DATE ISRAEL BASHERS!!!!

OK Carlos. First of all, you need to get things straight. I have never mentioned Shalit, so there's answer #1.

Steve Inskepe from NPR radioreported in the spring of 08' about the settlement camps in Gaza. There's answer #2.

And to your question about Germany. You're reading into details too much; wheather it's East, West, North, or South, Germany should have been punished for what they did during wwII, not Palestine, who had nothing to do with the matter. There's answer #3.

Dan. Are you saying that I said if it's too hot in the kitchen to get out? Cause I never said that either, but as usual, I make biblical reference that cannot be argued, as I quote directly from the bible on a subject that Bill brought to me, and you go off topic, and Carlos goes to the personal attack, and GLeigh tells me that it's not helpful to got into the past. And if anyone is wondering, the accounts of Christ may have taken place 2000yrs ago, but Abraham was far longer ago than that, You all can't even get your facts together, you just spout out anger when someone proves you wrong. I've had to go into all kind of other arenas, because none of you wants to admit that Israel has engaged in illegal activity, broken cease fires, used white phosphorus on civilians, starved Gaza by blockades, cut electricity on Gaza, and many other crimes. If you all want to talk (accept GLeigh, because as she so intelligently states, "I do not think discussion is helpful") let's answer eachothers comments instead of acting like little children calling names and such. That's what I'll try to do. Can't promise with this bunch though, it's frustrating dealing with people who don't want to face facts, facts provided by me, other bloggers, HAARETZ, Ifamericansknew.org, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, and Amnesty International. You'll just try to discredit ALL (excuse the caps) of us.

NPR is known to belong to the camp of israel bashers

don't take anything reported on NPR as a fact

example:

"Did National Public Radio (NPR) fabricate a story about a Jewish gang harrassing two Muslim girls in Paris? On January 26, 2009, Morning Edition ran a feature story on how the violence in Gaza had inflamed Jewish-Muslim relations in France (Gaza Fighting Reverberates in France). In the segment, correspondent Eleanor Beardsley discussed how the fighting has increased tension between the Muslim and Jewish communities and led to an increasing incidence of attacks against Jews. In what appeared to be an attempt to show that the violence was not all in one direction — i.e. Muslims attacking Jews — Beardsley adds, "And in Paris, two Muslim girls were harassed by a Jewish gang."

it never happened, but NPR did not publish an appology or correction

Carlos. I have already won.

CS

broken ceasefires?

see above AP of june 25, 2008 and prove me wrong!!

cut electricityon gaza?

another lie

about 75% og gaza electricity is supplied from the israeli grid, another 15 % from the egyptian grid

none was ever interrupted

prove me wrong!!

Here's more proof of my point. I've heard Dan ( I think it was Dan, might have been Harvey) say that you can't trust the Israeli media organization, HAARETZ, because they provided the news of Israel first breaking the cease fire in june of 08'. Yesterday, I'm reading about how Amnesty International should not be trusted because they are Israel bashers. I've heard that CNN's Rick Sanchez was an unreliable source, and cannot be taken for the truth. And here's Dan saying that NPR, one of the only unbiased media outlets left, is an Israel basher.

WOW!

I can truly say that I will from now on, never be surprised by the blind support that Israel supporters will provide to their cause.

CS

"Dan. Are you saying that I said if it’s too hot in the kitchen to get out? Cause I never said that either,"

where did I say that you said this?

try reading what people tell you instead of assuming

you said "so why bother with you"

to which I replied what i replied

did you understand it now, or do you need an explanation of the explanation???????

"Carlos. I have already won."

you suffer of delusions

you won just like hamas won!!!!

CS – If you are going to quote ME, please attempt some degree of accuracy. I said that, "Discussion is helpful, in general. I'm learning anyway." Read back. My exact words. Twist facts all you want, but not my words. I don't appreciate it – at all.

cs

i proved above that npr invented a story, can you prove me wrong??

i proved above by an ap dispatch that hamas broke the ceasefire, and you still claim the opposite

i proved above that your allegations about israel cutting electricity to gaza are nothing than a lie, and you still claim to be right?

what does it take to get you to apologize for the falshoods you spread??

GLeigh

accuracy from CS?

don't make me laugh!!

dan perman February 25th, 2009 2032 GMT

NPR is known to belong to the camp of israel bashers

You forgot to mention that ifamericansknew.org is run by a Alison Weir whose journalism credentials have been repeatedly questioned and challenged by journalism organizations. One of the site's board members works for the palestinian lobby; the other is a known supporter of "charitable" organizations that are closely tied to the Holy Land Foundation, which was closed in December 2001, for funneling money to Hamas.

That's how this site defines "objectivity."

GLeigh. I admit, that I had mistaken your previous qoute. My bad.
At least I'm man enough to admit it.

And Dan. Your previous statement about where electricity comes from has nothing in it to state authenticity, or truth. Just because you said it does not make it true. But here';s what I know, Domino.un.org states that as of october 2007, Israel announced that they would begin cutting the power to Gaza civilians.

According to iht.com (International herald tribune), Israel's blockades prevented chlorine imports to Gaza, which left Gaza with no means to purify their water.

Now I don't have all day to look through every lie...I mean post you've ever made, to fact check. But I've...once again provided the truth, and the credible source of it.

As previously stated...I have already won.

CS February 25th, 2009 1426 GMT

... I DO NOT SUPPORT TERROR!!!!! I have REPEATEDLY renounced Hamas, and their charter, and their way of getting things done.
................

CS February 25th, 2009 1432 GMT

Professor. Why does Dan think that we should stop funds fromgoing to Hamas ...
...................

wow – 2 totally conflicting stands within just 6 minutes of each other!

We're quoting the Bible now?

Well, OK.

1. "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." (Leviticus 19:18)

2. The 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17).

3. Jesus's 11th Commandment: "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you" (John 15:12); "This I command you, to love one another" (John 15:17).

Start there. So far, neither side has managed to master those fundamental basics.

cs

wrong agai

the electricity was cut for a few days after particularly strong rocket atatcks originating from gaza

you will not get very far with your half-truth and what have you

you are being found out every single time

and what about npr making up stories? no comment? i did not think so

and hamas broke the ceasefire just 3 days after it came into effect

you were not able to disprove this fact, but did not apologize for claiming that israel did

at least be man enough to admit you were wrong!!

and cs

everything i say on this block is verifyable, in contrast to your sources, like NPR who invent stories

CS February 25th, 2009 2020 GMT

OK Carlos. First of all, you need to get things straight. I have never mentioned Shalit, so there’s answer #1.

Steve Inskepe from NPR radioreported in the spring of 08′ about the settlement camps in Gaza. There’s answer #2.

And to your question about Germany. You’re reading into details too much; wheather it’s East, West, North, or South, Germany should have been punished for what they did during wwII, not Palestine, who had nothing to do with the matter. There’s answer #3.
**********************************************************************

Sorry to disagree with you CS-- but I do have things straight!!!!

#1 See your post below that you made on the blog about Shallit!

One more example of your mindless ignorance to the facts or maybe it's just a simple refusal to acknowledge the truth!

CS February 18th, 2009 2126 GMT

I see they let this young kid go. His family is probably pretty ecstatic about it. I’m sure Hamas will still be given no credit towards working for diplomacy or peace or anything of the sort. Because if they only wanted war, than they obviously could have kept him, and awaited another attack. Just like when Ahmadinajad gave the order for the british soldiers to be released unharmed, the right wing media said they were devils if they kept of hurt them, then when they released them, Fox, and all it’s sheeple followers condemned Iran anyway.

************************************************************************

#2 There are no Israeli settlement camps in Gaza!!! None, Nada, Zilch!

The Israelis' left all the settlement camps in Gaza in 2005 and bulldozed every last building!!!! So, you're friggin' wrong!!!

So you might want to call you're Radio NPR Buddy and chastise him for making you look like a fool-– or simply provide a link to page where the rest of us can see for ourselves that there are still illegal Israeli settlement camps in Gaza!

By the way-- did these Israelis in Gaza get bombed in the recent conflict by IDF or IAF indiscriminately bombing and targeting civilians??? Did they get blasted by the white phosphorus too??

Do you really believe that there are Israeli settlement camps in Gaza?? Or are you simply too much of a spineless wimp to admit you're wrong?
***************************************************************************

#3-- Thanks for the clarification on that. But do you really think that it would have been appropriate or even feasible for the Jews to remain in Germany at the end of WWII ??? The Nazi's killed 6 million Jews, and you can sit here and say-- 60 years later -– that " well, the survivors, they just should have been allowed to stay! Please!

Furthermore, the decision and plans for a Jewish State and an Arab State on this land was not a result of WWII. The plan had been in the process of being developed since the end of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI! So you can't simply put the blame for the current situation on the Germans or the Nazis.

The international community, the UN, along with the UK; who had legal governmental authority over the British Mandate of Palestine since the end of WWI; decided, along with the UN Member Nations, to provide for an Arab State side by side with a Jewish State in the land held under The British Mandate of Palestine.

Why is it so difficult for you and others to accept the fact that there is and has been for many many years, a coalition of sovereign nations who have worked very hard to promote peace and prosperity for all? I guess I would compare this situation to one of your sates in the USA, where one of the states would refuse to accept or acknowledge the authority of the Federal Government!! What would happen???

What happened in 1947 with the UN Resolution to create the Arab state and the State of Israel was a democratically approved decision by all members of the UN- including those who had authoritative control of the land in question.

What is so difficult to understand about this???

CS February 25th, 2009 2123 GMT

GLeigh. I admit, that I had mistaken your previous qoute. My bad.
At least I’m man enough to admit it.

And Dan. Your previous statement about where electricity comes from has nothing in it to state authenticity, or truth
****************************************************************

CS,

Well lets' think about this!

You claim Israel cuts off the electricity to Gaza--right?

Dan says, no we don't !!!!

Where does the burden of proof ly-- with the one making the accusation or the one making the defense??

How does it work in the democracy where you live???

In order to save you numerous hours of frantic searching for an appropriate response - I'll help you out here-– you made an accusation-- you need to provide evidence to support the accusation!

It's as simple as that!!!!

And your link--Domino.un.org-- goes to nothing related to this issue--one more example of your "proof of thruth" !

nona.

I have never mentioned any thing about sheleet I dont know who he is.

I dont know why you are insisting that I mentioned that name.

" most Christians — at least in the U.S. — agree that Israel should be the capital of the Jewish state."

Nona.

Yes I agree that Israel should be the capital of the Jewish state .

and Jerusalem should be the capital of the Palestinian state

all Christians and Muslim and Hindu and: Buddhist governments including the US consider Jerusalem as an occupied city.
99% of the human race consider Jerusalem to be occupied by Israel.
the remaining 1% are the christian Zionists in the US you can have them.

Those People in Gaza: Where Do They Come From, And Why Are They So Mad? most of them are refugees driven out by Israel in 1948 from their homes in Jaffa haifa and other cities and towns in Palestine.

Here is a powerful collection of pictures of Palestine before the creation of the "Jewish State" in 1948.

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2009/01/a-land-without-a-people.html

Wow- I listened to your new President this evening! He spoke very strongly about his vision of the US and his view of the US and it's responsibility in world policy! At fist I was impressed- then I became more concerned as the speech progressed. It went on to --

Although most of the fighting forces would be withdrawn in the next 18 months, some of those units could be in Iraq for years to come. Beyond that, Mr. Obama's compromise withdrawal plan may also leave behind as many as 50,000 troops for cleanup and protection operations.

What's up with that?????

professor, who is going to keep the Mexicanos from overrunning your land and establishing a tent city on your land????

You're simply screwed!

professor,

I see on CNNI, a story about the Mexicano drug cartels. Looks like they have the ability to choose the leader for the police in their border towns in Mexico! - " Resign or I kill all of your police officers" so the Police Chief resigns! I'm sure it's only a matter of time, they have the same control in S. California! Where do you live-- San Diego??? You should be very worried, especially if your fellow Americans have the same philosophy as you about US Patriotism-- You're simply screwed!!! Who will defend your land from the Mexicanos and their rockets and mortars??

Hope You Have a Nice Day!!!

solomon February 26th, 2009 041 GMT

nona.

I have never mentioned any thing about sheleet I dont know who he is.

I dont know why you are insisting that I mentioned that name.

.............................

Concentrate.

I am not insisting that you mentioned his name. I am saying that I asked you some questions in that thread/blog post that you have ignored. You commented in this thread; I asked you some questions in response to your comments. Therefore, you are capable of finding it, since you have already commented in it. In addition, I gave you the exact time and date of the post with my questions in it in my address to you above.

Comprehend?

Meanwhile, I'm glad you agree that Israel should be the Jewish state and Jerusalem should be its capital. Jerusalem can be the capital of a Palestinian state too, only the Palestinians rejected joint control over it and threw away their - (what? Third? Fifth? 500th?) opportunity for a Palestinian state. Too bad.

Solomon – you keep saying that the US and the world agrees with you.

There is no occupation, unless you are talking about the Arabs and Muslims squatting on Israeli land. Jerusalem was lost by Jordan when it joined with other Arab/Muslim countries in 1967 to try to eradicate Israel (again) and lost (again). You have admitted this yourself. Don't try to deny it.

So please clarify, are you mad at the Israelis for occupying Israel? Are you mad at New Yorkers for occupying New York; do you still think that New York is a colony of England being brutally occupied by the Americans? LOL.

PS. – The world does not agree with you. I'd venture to say that most of them think you are just another Islamic terrorist supporter.

Nona – I'm glad there is a female on this blog who has studied this a little. I've learned here, but it's new stuff. Oddly, being female, emotional pleas don't fly with me. They sound fake. Emotional to me are those in Gaza scared and rockets going off near them and knowing Israel will eventually respond. It has to logically. Older people have trouble adapting to change. There are some southerners still a little huffy over the Civil War, amazingly to me. My relatives lost land, but it was a war and it was over long ago. My mom thought the hubby was a mother's dream and my dad liked him. It was my hubby's idea to name our first son after my dad. People need to accept and move forward to reality. Stop the suffering.

solomon February 26th, 2009 108 GMT

Those People in Gaza: Where Do They Come From, And Why Are They So Mad? most of them are refugees driven out by Israel in 1948 from their homes in Jaffa haifa and other cities and towns in Palestine.

Another myth.

The Arabs initiated hostilities in Palestine upon the November 1948 UN partition into a Jewish and Palestinian state, employing outside forces and arms from Arab states as distant as Iraq to prevent the creation of the Jewish state. Thousands of Arabs, including the more affluent, fled to nearby Arab states when Israel's independence was declared in 1948. According to the Arab-sponsored Institute for Palestine Studies in Beirut, the majority of Arab refugees in 1948 were not expelled, and 69% left without seeing an Israeli soldier.

"Every second that passed, you heard a new rumor, and after every minute the imaginary tales and lies became bigger. Finally, they were accepted as definite truth by the public ... Many of the Mufti henchmen patrolled the streets in private and lorry cars, calling upon the people, 'Oh! People! Oh! Men, oh! Heroes! Help! Help! Stop the Jewish attack! They have attacked your brothers in the Manshiya; they pillaged their properties; burned their holdings and raped their women and girls. They have committed awful acts of horror and brutality against your brothers!' In but a few minutes, Jaffa's inhabitants were incited and agitated; they shouted and fired in the air: 'On them! On them! On Tel Aviv, the town of the wicked!' Groups and individuals, they marched on and among them, behind them or in front of them, went the Mufti henchmen ..."
- Nimr el Hawari, the Commander of the Palestine Arab Youth Organization, in his book Sir Am Nakbah (The Secret Behind the Disaster), on the Arab leaders' incitment of 1947.

Near East Arabic Radio, April 3, 1948: "It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees to flee from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa and Jerusalem, and that certain leaders ... make political capital out of their miserable situation." This encouragement from the Arab Higher Committee included radio announcements urging all Arabs to leave and abandon their property.

Memo from The Arab National Committee of Haifa, April 27, 1950: "The removal of the Arab inhabitants ... was voluntary and was carried out at our request ... The Arab delegation proudly asked for the evacuation of the Arabs and their removal to neighboring Arab countries."

When the Arabs were defeated in their attack on the new Jewish state in 1948, they began demanding the "return" of expelled" Jewish refugees to their former homes, despite the overwhelming evidence that Arab leaders had called upon Arabs to flee. This change of story is detailed in President Truman's International Development Advisory Board Report, March 7, 1951: "Arab leaders summoned Arabs of Palestine to mass evacuation ... as the documented facts reveal."

Meanwhile, the Jews urged Arabs to stay. The Jewish Haifa Workers Council issued an appeal to the residents of Haifa: "For years we have lived together in our city, Haifa ... Do not fear. Do not destroy your homes with your own hands ... do not bring upon yourself tragedy by unnecessary evacuation and self-imposed burdens ... But in this city, yours and ours, Haifa, the gates are open for work, for live, and for peace for you and your families."

Offical British Police Report, April 26, 1948: "General situation – Haifa District. Haifa remains quiet ... An appeal has been made to the Arabs by the Jews to re-open their shops and businesses in order to relieve the difficulties of feeding the Arab population. Evacuation was still going on yesterday ... Roads were crowded with people leaving Haifa with their belongings. At a meeting yesterday afternoon Arab leaders reiterated their determination to evacuate the entire Arab population and they have been given the loan of ten 3-ton military trucks to assist the evacuation."

I want to make clear that I am not denying that there wasn't violence on both sides. There certainly was. But your statement that "most of them are refugees driven out by Israel in 1948 from their homes in Jaffa haifa and other cities" is simply not true. Most left voluntarily at the urging of Arab leaders, and as Institute for Palestine Studies in Beirut acknowledges, about 70% left without even seeing a Jewish soldier.

Israel, Gaza, and Egypt should be on easy street, crawling with tourists from various religions. It doesn't seem to be that way. Bummer.

CS – I accept your apology, at least a little, for twisting my words. The snide remark, "because as she so intelligently states" just before you misquoted me, and said the opposite what I had said, is a little harder to take. Especially since I had left and had to read back to see it. Also --just in case you didn't know -- some people, perhaps many, consider the Bible a sacred text. It's good to start it with a large letter. You use them a lot, so I guess you know how to do it. God has never told me, in person, which religion(s) are right or wrong as long they are honestly seeking him. I respect most if they seem nice.

solomon
The people Gaza are Mad at Hamas for preventing peace. That is why there so many innocent Palestinians now being killed and tortured by Hamas you support so much. And that is why Hamas had to steal food, they want to ensure loyalty of people by controlling theirs food.
As for refugees, they choose to leave, when Israel become independent, they deflected towards invading Arab armies, who wanted to destroy their country. Even now them themselves don`t consider themselves Israelis. So just like nobody forcing Poland to accept German refugees, who collaborated with Nazis back, nobody should force Israel. Those Arabs who wanted to stay, stayed and now Israelis.

Hey Nona,

Its deb are you still there? Appologies from being gone from blog for so long.

Hello Dan and Solomon

Salam and Shalom

From The Times
February 26, 2009

Peace will be achieved only by talking to Hamas

We need to rethink the strategy for achieving peace in the Middle East
Sir, If every crisis is also an opportunity, it is now time to rethink the strategy for achieving peace in the Middle East. The latest and bloodiest conflict between Israel and Hamas has demonstrated that the policy of isolating Hamas cannot bring about stability. As former peace negotiators, we believe it is of vital importance to abandon the failed policy of isolation and to involve Hamas in the political process.

An Israeli–Palestinian peace settlement without Hamas will not be possible. As the Israeli general and statesman Moshe Dayan said: “If you want to make peace, you don’t talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.” There can be no meaningful peace process that involves negotiating with the representative of one part of the Palestinians while simultaneously trying to destroy the other.

Whether we like it or not, Hamas will not go away. Since its victory in democratic elections in 2006, Hamas has sustained its support in Palestinian society despite attempts to destroy it through economic blockades, political boycotts and military incursions. This approach is not working; a new strategy must be found. Yes, Hamas must recognise Israel as part of a permanent solution, but it is a diplomatic process and not ostracisation that will lead them there. The Quartet conditions imposed on Hamas set an unworkable threshold from which to commence negotiations. The most important first step is for Hamas to halt all violence as a precondition for their inclusion in the process. Ending their isolation will in turn help in reconciling the Palestinian national movement, a vital condition for meaningful negotiations with Israel.

We have learnt first-hand that there is no substitute for direct and sustained negotiations with all parties to a conflict, and rarely if ever a durable peace without them. Isolation only bolsters hardliners and their policies of intransigence. Engagement can strengthen pragmatic elements and their ability to strike the hard compromises needed for peace.

The new US Administration and the appointment of George Mitchell as the Middle East envoy give hope that a new strategy grounded in realism and not ideology will be pursued. Without this, there will be no two-state solution and no peace and security for either Israelis or Palestinians. We must recognise that engaging Hamas does not amount to condoning terrorism or attacks on civilians. In fact, it is a precondition for security and for brokering a workable agreement.

Michael Ancram

Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon

Dr Shlomo Ben-Ami (Israel Foreign Minister, 2000-01)

Betty Bigombe (former Uganda Government minister)

Alvaro de Soto (UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process and Envoy to the Quartet, 2005-07).

Gareth Evans (Australian Foreign Minister, 1988-96)

Peter Gastrow (former Member of Parliament in South Africa and member of the National Peace Committee and the National Peace Secretariat)

Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin member of the Northern Ireland Assembly)

John Hume (Leader of the Social

Democratic Liberal Party of Northern Ireland, 1979-2001)

Dr Ram Manikkalingam (Founder of the Dialogue Advisory Group)

Lord Patten of Barnes

professor

you talk to hamas all the time

have they indicated to you that they gave up on the destruction of israel?

Dan,

Learn from your masters....

Prof – Is that a yes or no? It would be great, for the world in general, if this area would settle its differences.

GLiegh,

A yes or a no on what?.... What the hell are you talking about?

answer the question, professor instead of spewing insults

have hamas indicated that they gave up the destruction of israel?

judging from the more than 100 rockets fired since THEY declared a ceasefire, apparently not

Dan asked had Hamas given up it's goal of destroying Israel. You replied, "Learn from your masters...." I asked if that was a yes or no. Please pay attention.

GLeigh,

why don't you go ask Hamas and when you get an answer pass it on to Dan...

Professor,

From the article you posted-–"The most important first step is for Hamas to halt all violence as a precondition for their inclusion in the process."

Looks quite clear to me Hamas is not interested in being included in the process!

That's what everyone keeps telling you! So, I guess since you read somewhere else, you might actually think it's true!!!

Prof – Thank-you again for another snide remark. Those always help move a discussion forwards to a peaceful resolution. Have a good day.

I'm going after soup, salad, and endless breadsticks and shopping before having to pick the guys up at school. But I might read back later. I wwant to see how others feel about more nukes in the world. "Alas, Babylon" really is one of the best books I've read on nuclear repercussions, even though it's really dated, the Cold War era.

GLeigh - I'm glad you're here too. I like the way your posts are always in the interest of furthering peace. Everybody here can argue til the end of time about who did what to whom and when they did it, and often we do. But nothing changes - innocent people on both sides will keep suffering and dying - until everybody agrees that peace is the goal and everybody demonstrates the strength and humility to commit to forgiveness in the interest of peace. When that happens, the world can move forward and the Palestinians and the Israelis both can have their own homelands live in peace.

And hello Debs! It's great to see here again!

GLeigh,

you call my comment a snide comment?

Look in the mirror and reread Dan's and if you do not find his comment and your comment snide then I would suggest you purchasing a one way ticket to Mars and leave us alone here to discuss this issue.

professor

how about you buy a one way ticket to mars

you do not own this blog

nobody must accept your biased opinions

you have no right to criticize those who do not agree with you or your hamas propaganda

i suggest you behave like a civilized human being, if you are capable

if you do not want to, then I would suggest you purchasing a one way ticket to Mars and leave us alone here to discuss this issue.

GLeigh

don't you get it?

it's either the professor's way, or no way

you want straight answers from him? hahahahaha

Dan,

Easy tiger... I was not the one who suggested that money is better spent on trips to Mars... GLeigh did that.... so if that upsets you too much then you need to discuss that with her not with me.

Get in with the program man... do go around insulting everyone just becuase you want to revenge your father by murdering civilian Palestinians who have done nothing to hurt you.

Hello all, Dan, Nona and Solomon

This particular situation desperately needs an international body such as Amnesty as both sides are commiting horendous acts of violence and if more pressure is put on them internationaly, they coulod be forced into giving up violence and into some kind of negotiations. I truly no longer know if any side is really willing to compromise for the greater good of peace.

The bottom line is that Palestine MUST remove the violence from here politics and Israel Must recognise the existence of Palestine and the human right of existence themselves. If anymore land is taken from them and the oppression continues they will be erradicated forever. As civilised humans how can we allow this to happen?

We must as decent people not sit quiet any longer. We must help Palestine and Israel find a way forward for a peaceful existence together.

Myself, who has lived an worked in the ME, and others unfamiliar to the region we have a duty of care to our fellow humans. What ever happens 1,000 miles away can still effect us.

Whether it be Palestine-Israel, or Sudan, Darfur, Kenya some where in this world people are being persicuted on grounds of race, religion or ethnicity. We cant allow this to happen anymore.

Salam and Shalom to all

Professor,

I just read your post as well, and I find it interesting. Firstly as some one who spent some years living in Northern Ireland and have seen terrorism in its ugly face I must say that open dialouge with all is vital.

Northern Ireland had to do this by Both Nationalist and Loyalist factions were represented by their political groups (Irish Republican Army – Sinn Fein, murdered 1500 in uk mainlandand N Ireland, including two of my friends. Ulster Defence Force – Ulster Democratic Party, mudered close to 800) It is difficult to talk peace with these types of people, but it needs to be done to establish peace.

So, I am agreeing with you on this one!!!

Salam and Shalom to all

Debs2,

I am glad you finally found something to agree with me on... If all people on this blog were open to dialogue like you we would not be here to beging with.... but there are those who are hard liners on the Israeli side who oppose dialogue period and would like to see the Palestinians eradicated... and ethnically cleansed.

Until Israel recognizes their right for existence and self determination.... and I do mean self determination.... without being surrounded by Israeli Occupying Forces at their borders and putting the whole population under siege then in my opinion it would be hard for any human being to accept to live under these condition.

Later, Salam and Shalom.

Prof – I wrote that money would be better spent on research in Iran, such as another trip to Mars, or whatever, than on more nukes in the world since there are more than enough to destroy. I personally like CERN, but most here haven't read about it and ask what it is which is complicated to explain. That still is my opinion, research is better than bombs. It bothers me when nuke subs bump each other out in one of the oceans, but probably good to know. In the U.S. in the 1950's was the Cold War and nukes were a big deal back then. I walked through a nuke base because I was a senior in high school in 1977. It was 4 miles down the road from my out in the boonies house. It's filled in with concrete now, but subs still haul them around and the air has them. Probably land too. If you want to describe me as a person who wants to go to Mars, again, fine with me. My oldest is an astro engineer. I think he wants to go farther. Have a nice day.

Offensive as it is to some, I have always said that neither side is innocent. I am pro-peace, I hate seeing anyone, Gaza people, being used in the middle. And they are.

GLeigh,

Neither side is innocent?... What has the Palestinian done to deserve someone coming over from europe to murder them, destroy their homes and steal their lands? Can you explain this to me?

"What has the Palestinian done to deserve someone coming over from europe to murder them, destroy their homes and steal their lands? Can you explain this to me?"

TWISTING FACTS AGAIN AND SPEWING HATE

THE ARABS HAVE OPPRESSED THE JEWS LIVING IN ISRAEL FOR CENTURIES

they had progroms against the jews long before 1948 and you know it PROFESSOR but as usual you ignore facts

go on with your hamas hate campaign, go on with your propaganda

we love to laugh about your allegations that are not based on facts, but on sources like mearsheimer, carter and the protocols of the elders of zion

hahahaha

Dan,

spreading lies will not getting you anywhere... I am laughing here more that you can imagine... Because I have never heard this allegation before from any one I have spoken to before in my life jew, christian or muslim.... I have never read it in any book.... so obviously is your latest fabrication. Typing it in all caps will not make it any more believable you know that don't you?

Elder of Zion? When did you I ever mentioned that book?... Is that where you get your plans for the future?

LMAO

I have to agreed with the theory of imposing a embargo against the Palestinians and Israel in the field of Weapons....

Prof – I don't think the missiles, according to some sources more than 10,000 and some 11,000 in the past eight years shot into Israel has helped. That caused some problems.

Hello all..

Dan,

Wouldnt you think that open dialogue is the best way forward for peace? Lets for the sake of peace and for Palestines kids and Israels kids future talk, and talk and talk till there is something that can be done. Lets not use violence anymore. No more suicide bombers, no more airstrikes. It never acheives anything. Palestine existed and still does. There needs to be an official state founded on their native soil and Irael too has the right exist. Why cant we find a way so all can live peacefuly..

Shalom and I hopall is well with you.

Professor,

Yep We need to talk, and talk and keep taliking, its the only way to defeat the extremist element within this situation.

No one can deny that Palestine existed and I have said that since I started commenting on here a while back. However Palestinian extremism uses violence that can never be condoned, its immoral and stupid and will never get their voices heard.

We have got to use peaceful methods to solve the worlds problems. No more violence and killing. Its wrong, very wrong.....

We also must look at everything else as well, the occupation, Israels right to exist and her right to defence, just as Palestine does. Both peoples are guilty for fueling this hate and killing. Its not just Israel, maybe if Palestine used more peaceful ways instead of murderous suicide bombers they would have their own state by now.

Wa Aleikum Salam

Salam and Shalom to all

fabrication professor?you know very well that that were progroms against the jews by arabs long befiore 1948, i proved it several times on this blog

but you do not believe in the truth, you wilkl do anything to support your terror friends from hamas, and if that means falsifying history, you do it

The Hebron Massacre refers to the mass murder of sixty-seven Jews on 23 and 24 August 1929 in Hebron, then part of the British Mandate of Palestine, by Arabs incited to violence by false rumors that Jews were massacring Arabs[1] in Jerusalem and seizing control of Muslim holy places. This massacre, together with that of Safed, sent shock waves through Jewish communities in Palestine and across the world.

The survivors were forced to flee Hebron, and their property was seized by Arab residents and occupied

Dan,

yes fabrication...

Arab Palestinians did not wake up one morning and decided to attack the Jews that lives with them in the same land for centuries in peace... Why do you ignore all what lead to this conflict? All this was way before Palestine was under the British mandate:

1882-1903
First wave of 25,000 Zionist immigrants enters Palestine, coming mainly from eastern Europe.

1882
Baron Edmond de Rothschild of Paris starts financial backing for Jewish settlement in Palestine.

1896
Theodor Herzl, an Austro-Hungarian Jewish journalist and writer, publishes Der Judenstaat, advocating establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine or elsewhere.

1896
Jewish Colonization Association, founded in 1891 in London by German Baron Maurice de Hirsch, starts aiding Zionist settlements in Palestine.

1897
First Zionist Congress in Switzerland issues the Basle Program calling for the establishment of a "home for the Jewish people in Palestine." It also establishes the World Zionist Organization (WZO) to work to that end.

1901
Jewish National Fund (JNF) set up by fifth Zionist Congress in Basle to acquire land for WZO; land acquired by JNF to be inalienably Jewish, and exclusively Jewish labor to be employed on it, click here to read to Zionist apartheid & racist quotes.

1904-1914
Second wave of about 40,000 Zionist immigrants increases Jewish population in Palestine to about 6% of total. Since the inception of Zionism it has been claiming that Palestinian was an empty country, click here to read our rebuttal to this argument.

1909
Establishment of the first kibbutz, based exclusively on Jewish labor. Tel Aviv founded north of Jaffa.

1914
World War I starts.

1916
30 January
Husayn-McMahon correspondence between Sharif Husayn of Mecca (leader of the Arab Revolt against the Ottomans) and Sir Henry McMahon (British High Commissioner of Egypt) ends in agreement for postwar independence and unity of Arab provinces of Ottoman Empire.
16 May
Sykes-Picot Agreement secretly signed, dividing Arab provinces of Ottoman Empire between Britain and France. Agreement revealed by Bolsheviks in December 1917.
June
Sharif Husayn proclaims Arab independence from Ottomans. Arab Revolt against Istanbul begins.

1917
2 November
Balfour Declaration. British Secretary of State Balfour pledges British support for "a Jewish national home in Palestine."

1918
September
Palestine occupied by Allied forces under British General Allenby.
30 October
World War I ends.

1919-1923
Third wave of over 35,000 Zionist immigrants increases Jewish population in Palestine to 12% of total. Registered Jewish landownership (1923) totals 3% of area of country.
1919
27 January-10 February
First Palestinian National Congress in Jerusalem sends memoranda to Paris Peace Conference rejecting Balfour Declaration and demanding independence.
28 August
Paris Peace Conference sends Commission of Inquiry to Near East, led by U.S. commission members Henry C. King and Charles Crane. England and France decline to participate. Commission recommends "serious modification" of idea of "making Palestine distinctly a Jewish Commonwealth."

great cut and paste, professor

you left out that jews lived in the country long before the arabs, never left

you did not react with even one word to the progroms carried out by arabs against the jews, for you only the jews can do wrong, the arabs: NEVER

and you want anybody to take you seriously after you said that you back palestinian demands 100%

palestinian demands are that israel is destroyed, in other words, you back mass murder.

what does that make you, professor?

Professor February 28th, 2009 1216 GMT

yes fabrication…

Arab Palestinians did not wake up one morning and decided to attack the Jews that lives with them in the same land for centuries in peace… Why do you ignore all what lead to this conflict? All this was way before Palestine was under the British mandate:

1000BCE

The Jews lived in the land of Judea (currently known as Israel and the West Bank)

150AD
Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed the land of Judea as Palestine

638AD
Muslim rule established

1882-1903
First wave of 25,000 Zionist immigrants enters Palestine, coming mainly from eastern Europe.

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professor mentiroso,

It's quite amusing how you seem to believe that world history began in 1882. But, you're making progress! A Few weeks ago you believed world history began in 1947!!!!

Keep it up, one day you may wake up and see the entire picture of reality as is apparent to those who possess true knowledge and unbiased ideologies!

Good work professor mentiroso.

Professor February 27th, 2009 1437 GMT

Neither side is innocent?… What has the Palestinian done to deserve someone coming over from Europe to murder them, destroy their homes and steal their lands? Can you explain this to me?

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professor mentiroso,

What have the Mexicanos done to deserve someone coming over from Europe or Asia to murder them, destroy their homes and steal there lands???

Where is your ancestral home professor mentiroso???

What have the Native Americans done to deserve someone coming over from Europe or Asia or Africa to murder them, destroy their homes and steal there lands???

Where is your ancestral home professor mentiroso???

Maybe you should do the moral thing and back up your family and all your things and return to your ancestral hope--- stop the occupation!!!!

Dan,

No response. Thats not like you.......Im the same debs thats been chatting on here for while now. I had to use debs2 as they were booting my comments off the blog. Funny those of us who advocate peace get pushed off....

Hope all is ok.

Salam and Shalom

debs

what is the use of arguing with the so-called professor

judging from the hours he is on the blog, he does not work for a living

myguess is that he is paid by hamas

he has never ever related to any fact presented to him directly

so what's the use?

Carlos,

Another one of your lies.... Go back to my quotes and show me where did I say the world history began in 1882?

I know as usual you will not be able to prove it and you will try to fabricate an answer.

Professor March 1st, 2009 817 GMT

Carlos,

Another one of your lies…. Go back to my quotes and show me where did I say the world history began in 1882?

I know as usual you will not be able to prove it and you will try to fabricate an answer
*****************************************************************

professor mentiroso,

Well read your post above-– you start the progression of history of the Jews in the land of Judea beginning in 1882! You simply ignore the fact they were there for thousands of years before that.

But that's OK, like I said before, you're making progress. A few weeks ago you believed that the history of the land of Judea began in 1947!!

Keep it up, one day you may wake up and see the entire picture of reality as is apparent to those who possess true knowledge and unbiased ideologies!

Are you simply incapable of answering a basic question?
You repeatedly ignore what I ask you– I believe it must be a true embarrassment for you! But I'll ask again!!

Where is your ancestral home professor mentiroso???

Maybe you should do the moral thing and pack up your family and all your things and return to your ancestral home——- stop the occupation!!!!

Don't you think that would be the fair and proper thing to do????

Especially due to your vehement opposition to the existence of the Jews who live in the State of Israel!

world traveler February 23rd, 2009 1959 GMT

I disagree, Israel has the right to defend itself from terrorist attack, unfortunately terrorist are civilians that choose to murder people as they please, and hide behind schools, hospitals, and mosques when they are being shot at.

Hamas and all other terror organizations are cowards to the last, they hide behind women and children, and people wonder why there are so many civilian casualties.
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and today we know that israel also did hide behind children
let me use your words ... cowards to the last
now you can tell this to idf