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Inside the Middle East
April 20, 2009
Posted: 814 GMT

Palestinian graffiti spreads message of peace
(CNN) - Emblazoned on a long, tall, concrete barrier in the midst of a rocky Middle Eastern landscape is this spray-painted message: "Mirror, mirror on the wall. When will this senseless object fall?"

Obama 'gravely concerned' about U.S. journalist in Iranian prison
(CNN) - President Obama called Sunday for the release of a U.S. journalist convicted of espionage in Iran.

Iraqi security forces conduct raids in former insurgent hot spot
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) - Iraqi police and soldiers on Saturday launched major raids in a once-notorious insurgent stronghold west of Baghdad.

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Filed under: CNN Coverage •Iran •Iraq •Israel •West Bank


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GLeigh   April 20th, 2009 5:09 pm ET

Let's hope the fanatics in Iraq allow the police and soldiers to do their jobs and safeguard the people and their democracy without more death and destruction. Let's hope the fanatics in Gaza and Israel allow the two places to live separate and peaceful lives, supporting themselves and being productive without more missiles and death and destruction. Perhaps someday, they will be supportive neighbors to each other. The U.S. and England are friends and were once in a war against each other. Let's hope the female journalist in Iran is somehow released. Her trial was probably unfair since no one was allowed to see it. It sounds more like a kidnapping than a governmental action by people who have no real charges to support her capture and imprisonment. Perhaps Iran wants something and she is a bargaining tool, sadly.

CS   April 20th, 2009 5:30 pm ET

Clearly, the people of Palestine want peace, and good relations with their Israeli neighbors. Hopefully, the Palestinian govt will unify (with reasonable folks at the helm); And Israeli leaders will sit and talk about the best interest of the two neighbors. Their fates are intertwined.

CS   April 20th, 2009 5:39 pm ET

I have agreed with some of Iran's positions in the past. I have disagreed with others. But this thing with the reporter is a terrible way for Ahmadinajad and Iran to show it's power. I do beleive that this trial (suspiciously quick), and sentencing are harsh.

This also makes me think, 'what would the U.S. do if we found an Iranian person of interest over here?' The previous administartion would obviously go the torture route...because torture is soooo effective. I mean really...if you were torturing me, I'd tell you about whatever you wanted to hear if I thought it'd make you stop.

Jacob   April 20th, 2009 7:35 pm ET

President Obama apeal to Iran resembles Chamberlin's apeal to Hitler in 1938. As we all remember, Chamberlin achieved "peace in our time" at a cost of tens of millions of people during WWII. Is President Obama as naive as it seems? Can you imagine Hitler with nukes?

World traveler   April 20th, 2009 9:19 pm ET

I agree, talk with Iran is over, lets invade and rename the country to disnyland on crack.

I.B. Wright   April 20th, 2009 9:34 pm ET

Jacob- Comparing Iran to Hitler is ridculous and just plain fear mongering. Since you bring it up though, I think would be more appropriate to compare Hitler having nukes to Nutanayahoo having them. It is because Israel already posesses nukes that Iran feels the need to have them so why not pressure Israel to get rid of theirs first and remove the need for Iran to acquire them? I doubt President Obama is naive at all and have to question your objectivity for impying that he is. What are you worried about -that he might actually improve relations with Iran? If so, is that bad or are you concerned it will somehow be at Israel's expense?? Go Obama!

Itai   April 20th, 2009 11:57 pm ET

Obama ‘gravely concerned’ about U.S. journalist in Iranian prison
(CNN) — President Obama called Sunday for the release of a U.S. journalist convicted of espionage in Iran.
------------

the whole world was concerned about the prisoniers of guantanamo
the whole world called to release them or to bring them to a fair court
the whole world called to stop torture
and the USA did not care a dout about all

and now the worls should jump because the USA is concerned about a convicted spy?
get real USA ... welcome to the real world

Barry   April 21st, 2009 12:44 am ET

What have the Palestinians done to show they want peace? Shooting rockets at israeli civilians? Electing an Islamic terrorist government whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel? Attacking Israelis with bulldozers, rocks, firebombs and knives? Failing to recognize Israel's right to exist? Failing to accept many peace proposals? Failing to negotiate in good faith or to compromise?

Seems to me that the Palestinians clearly want something, but it is certainly not peace.

john wayne   April 21st, 2009 6:53 am ET

"Clearly, the people of Palestine want peace, and good relations with their Israeli neighbors. "

====================================================

And this is how they prove it:

We cannot, we will not, and we will never recognize the enemy in any way, shape or form,” Mahmoud al-Zahar, one of the two leaders, said in a mosque sermon broadcast on the Islamist movement’s radio station, referring to Israel.

CS   April 21st, 2009 10:58 am ET

Itai. You're saying for the USA to get real. All three things you said the world was concerned about...Obama took care of in his first 3 months in office.

CS   April 21st, 2009 11:04 am ET

Cowboy. When I say the people of Palestine, I refer you to all the people (civilians) writing inspiring and peacefulthings on the wall that separates them from their neighbors. Stop focusing on only Hamas, or the negtives. If the world looked at only our negatives here in America, they would be well within their rights to feel threatened, as we have some extremists over here too. Funny how hypocrytical SOME of my countrymen can be. It's ok for Mcveigh, Koresh, Dahmer, Bundy, KKK, Skinheads, Anti abortionists, Columbine, and all the other domestic terrorists to do their thing, but for some people you never even met, in a part of the world you will never see, want equality, and you, the son of a country that has encouraged terror at times...can be their judge.

CS   April 21st, 2009 11:19 am ET

Barry. I will carefully disect your one sided statement:

1. It was Hamas shooting the rockets (in some cases Hezbollah, acting as Hamas), not civilians. You or I have as much control over the U.S. military than Palestinian civilians do over Hamas.

2. The civilian population elected Hamas, I think because they were recently raped of their land, and wanted a strong leadership to govern their state. Sadly, I admit..Hamas had their own agenda, which did not keep the best interest of it's people in the front.

3. If you refer to attacking Israelis with bulldozers and rocks; the removal of squatters from within the boarders of U.N. respected, Palestinian land (WEST BANK) than I say to you, lead by example. When Mexicans want to squat on your ranch, and start building a house in your literal backyard, don't call police or fend them off, or call Calderon, welcome them with open arms.

4. If you read the article at the top of the page about how the civilians want to live in peace with their neighbors, you'd realize that many Palestinians DO recognize Israel's right to exist. Just not the right to further push Palestine into the sea.

5. Failing to negotiate or accept peace proposals is subjective to Israel making some REASONABLE proposals in the first place. Ones that don't include settlements in the West Bank, and Blockades, and constantly cutting the power, and denying them port access to delivery of medicine, food, crayons and school supplies for their kids. I mean how genuine is a govt who wants to rule over it's neighbors by obviously trying to keep them uneducated? Did you notice that one of the first buildings hit in this last conflict was a Palestinian University. Next was a hospital. Real class acts, these Israelis are.

john wayne   April 21st, 2009 12:12 pm ET

CS

Palestinian civilians want peace:

I am sure you are right. But it is Hamas and Fatah who need to make peace. Hamas is not interested and Fatah demands ALL OR NOTHING.

So what is Israel to do? Israel negotiated with Fatah for years, making more and more concessions. Fatah concessions: ZILCH, NADA, NOTHING, NICHTS, RIEN

So you say Israel should accept everything Fatah wants. Because the Palestinians did not accept the two state proposal in 1948, were not able to eliminate isarel by terror, Isarel now needs to lie down and accept EVERYTHING the palestinians demand.
I hope you never have to negotiate for yourself say in business, with this way of negotiating you will be bankrupt immediately.

and about Hamas being democratically elected. let me remind you, so was Adolf Hitler

mohammed gharbawi   April 21st, 2009 1:00 pm ET

Palestinians have been negociating with more than 7 israeli presidents. the fact that people have elected Hamas is a result of this endless and absurd process of "israeli peace". Once a president starts talking about a basic issue, either he gets killed, resigns for a reason or another, loses his coalition, etc...The bottom line revolves around the pivotal idea that zionists are gaining time to colonize more land , kill more palestinians, make jerusalem a jewish city by expelling its arab population, etc..................
When someone launches arocket, the whole world starts condemning; at the same time, no country talks frankly about a situation of colonization and despair. This is a tragedy.

CS   April 21st, 2009 1:01 pm ET

john wayne. I never even mentioned anything about Fatah. You see, this is what you righties always do. You bring up a subject, get proven wrong, then you try to sslliidde on to another subject. Fatah has nothing to do with this.

If you want to talk about Palestine, let's.It is ABSOLUTELY not all up to Palestine to make peace, because Israel has as much a hand in this as Palestine. They have made just as many mistakes. They have committed just as many injustices.

What Palestine needs is ONE govt, I'll admitt, this will speed up the peace process. But Israel has to be willing to change it's agressive and opressive policies toward Palestine as well. IT IS ISRAEL who has this all or nothing attitude. They want to push Palestine off their land 60 years ago, now they want to make them so uncomfortable in the remaining land they have left, that they will leave what little they have to cling to as well.

Do you think it's fair that Israel STILL has settlements in the West Bank. Can you at least admitt that the West Bank belongs to Israel...or do you think like most Israeli politicians; that this is Jewish holy land and Palestine needs to be removed alltogether?
If so, we need not commune any further.

CS   April 21st, 2009 1:07 pm ET

And you keep mentioning Hitler. Answer me this; how many Arabs have been slain in this last offensive? How many Jews? Was Hitler the superpower? Were the Jews the minority? Are the Israelis of today...the superpower, or the minority? If you want to be a superpower, you need to behave responsibly as well. And with all the reporters and Israeli soldiers coming out and admitting that they abused military power, by killing unarmed civilians, this does not help their cause. This is why Israel should be stripped of their nuclear arsenal. Then, Iran, and all the other nations in the region could feel safe from the tyrants. I mean, over the last 10 years or so, the rogues attacked Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq...UNPROVOKED mind you. Just on the pretenses that they MIGHT be trying to make nukes. This is not the way a superpower handles itself.

Professor   April 21st, 2009 1:38 pm ET

Israeli Barry,

What have the Israelis done to show they want peace? Shooting innocent Palestinian civilians in mass murders? Electing a war criminal terrorist government whose founders called to occupy land between the Nile and the Euphrates... called for ethically cleaning the land of Palestinians? Attacking Palestinians with bulldozers, machine guns, firebombs and knives? Failing to recognize Palestinians right for self determination? Failing to accept many peace proposals? Failing to negotiate in good faith or to compromise and this documented by some Israeli too?

Seems to me that the Israelis clearly want something, but it is certainly not peace.

CS   April 21st, 2009 1:55 pm ET

I meant to say, "Can you at least admitt that the West Bank Palestine?"

john wayne   April 21st, 2009 2:12 pm ET

CS professor mohammed

you do not know what you are talking about

you lie, falsify history, make unsupported accusations and NEVER ever relate to any fact you are presented with that does not fit twisted reality

GLeigh   April 21st, 2009 2:25 pm ET

I don't follow this too closely. I heard that Israel, the Jewish people, wanted Jerusalem a place for all people and it was rejected. Why? I've asked this before and never got answered. Please answer. If I were Israel, I would be beyond my patience level, way beyond. Way, way beyond really. I'm pretty geared towards children. I didn't like hearing that Hamas hid missiles and stuff among civilians. That is barbaric to me, personally. Where is the production, the moves forward, the civilization, the hard work in all this mess. This is the richest, oil wealth, part of the world. Europe gives fuel to here? Why? There is no work for energy, gas?

I.B. Wright   April 21st, 2009 4:40 pm ET

john wayne- "you lie, falsify history, make unsupported accusations and NEVER ever relate to any fact you are presented with that does not fit twisted reality"
-------------------------------–

C.S. is right and as expected, your only defense is to call others liars. At least we can tell when you've been defeated. You can talk about wanting peace all you want but until you are prepared to do whatever it takes to achieve it, you don't really want it. And, stop talking about Israeli concessions because Isreal's idea of a concession is giving back most of what wasn't theirs in the first place. No-one is fooled by that propaganda except people like you. Get out of the West Bank and Gaza first before you talk about concesions.

CS   April 21st, 2009 4:46 pm ET

I think it's barbaric that Israeli soldiers killed civilians, knowing that they were just regular civilians, and not terrorists.

CS   April 21st, 2009 4:48 pm ET

And Jerusalem WAS once a place where Muslims, Christians, and Jews all resided together, and were able to reap the benefits of the holy land together, but for some reason the U.N. decided that Israel was the one entitled to the holy land, and that everybody else, not only had to evacuate Jerusalem, but the majority of Palestine as well.

CS   April 21st, 2009 4:51 pm ET

WOW john wayne, that was a really intelligent , well thought out statement you just made. Tell me exactly what I said that was not true so that I can provide you whith multiple links for your educational growth.

I mean really, I just made a few statements that you disagreed with, and now you want to try and make it a name calling thing. Just goes to show you how you righties play ball. Fair...until you start to lose.

CS   April 21st, 2009 4:56 pm ET

Come on cowboy, tell me what I "falsified" or "lie" about. I would love for you to give me an example, so I can make you look even more stupid than you make yourself out to be.

CS   April 21st, 2009 5:03 pm ET

And what Mohammed said was true. Yitzhak Rabin (I don't expect you to know who he is) was assasinated for his engaging in the peace process, and signing of the Oslo accords.

CS   April 21st, 2009 6:06 pm ET

I.B. it's beatuiful to see them get spanked, then whine like 3year olds when they can't have their way. That's ok, we just sent them to TIME-OUT!!!

Now you stay there and think about what you've done mister. LMAO!!!:))

john wayne   April 21st, 2009 6:28 pm ET

interesting

when you loose you attack, CS

you lost

BWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I.B. Wright   April 21st, 2009 9:25 pm ET

C.S.-
I think john wayne aka dan must be sweating bullets now that Obama is opening up all communication channels with the relevant ME countires. I've always said that the U.S. squandered away a golden opportunity after 9/11 by not engaging the Muslim world and Iran specifically to fight terrorism. Unlike most of the Jews who want the U.S. to follow their lead and use intimidation and fear against the Arab world, the new administration seems to be a little more objective and focused. The only way terrorism will be beaten is with the help of all peaceful muslims in the area (which I believe represent the vast majority of them).Contrary to what the Jews on this blog keep preaching, Muslims are not blood thirsty savages and are generally no different than anyone else. They want to provide for and raise their families in peace but there is also no way you can subordinate them to the Jews or anyone else. Israel's policy (and Bush's) of demonizing them and using force to accomplish that hasn't worked and never will. Obama seems to be on the right track and hopefully he can get the two sides to give up something to achieve peace. I know the Jews on this site at least do not want peace unless Israel gets everything it wants but that is unrealistic and has already proven to be a non-starter many times over. I think Obama knows what needs to be done; all he has to do now is figure out how to get Israel to accept something less than the 110% they have fixed as their target. The Jews (and maybe even Hamas) may not like to hear this but I think there is light at the end of this very long dark tunnel. Go Obama.

Itai   April 21st, 2009 11:43 pm ET

CS
April 21st, 2009 1058 GMT

Itai. You’re saying for the USA to get real. All three things you said the world was concerned about…Obama took care of in his first 3 months in office.
-------
true.. he is on it =)
sadly some americans dont like obama because of that

i hope also other countries wil join this great example!

but the usa have to be patient...
the world did wait 8 years until the usa did change its mind
maybe the usa now also have to wait 8 years until others will follow this great example of humanity

i hope the whole world will change to humanity since ... before now!

but the usa is not the world
if the usa change its great... this means not that others also are changing... usa is not sadam hussein or a other dictator ... also not if it looks so

i dont wana defend torture ... i strictly condemn torture in anyway!
i am against torture by usa or china or just any others!
the only thing i wanna say...
the whole world got ignored if it comes to guantanamo
but if it comes to a us-spy the whole world is good enough to get imeadiatly involved
this dont work!

a little example...
i tell you that what you are doing is not good... but you do it and tell me to shut up
later you tell me that what i do is not good... now i should jump emeadiatly and listen to you?
this dont work
you listen to me i listen to you
you dont listen to me ... i maybe will listen to you ... but maybe i will do the same as you did

that was a example ... nothing personal ;)

so if this spy goes now to prison ... it will be so... she did know with what she have to deal there

you also dont go to tailand with drugs ... you know what will happen to you
you also dont go to teheran to buy alcoholics you know what will hapen to you
and you dont go to usa for spying you know what will happen to you

and if you get catched... you cant say that you are from usa and think that this will save you from the local law... maybe it will save you but ig not it will be so and it was your choice of life

and actualy i dont think that he gets waterboarded
so she can be happy in a iranian prison .... or would she prefer guantanamo?

so short
usa is changing in a good way others hopefully will also follow this example
if not ... the usa will be now a part of the world ... maybe the usa will join now all other countries which know humanity and so we can pray together that china will also stop with torture in 8 years

and the countries wich know humanity a bit longer then the usa can still pray that the usa will also stop the subHuman deathPenalty wich is allready banned .. for example in europe

and until then the usa have not much to be concerned or what ever
the usa have to go on and follow other countries which are allready a good example for human rights ... maybe as lichtenstein or just a other random european country

Itai   April 21st, 2009 11:51 pm ET

john wayne April 21st, 2009 653 GMT

“Clearly, the people of Palestine want peace, and good relations with their Israeli neighbors. ”

====================================================

And this is how they prove it:

We cannot, we will not, and we will never recognize the enemy in any way, shape or form,” Mahmoud al-Zahar, one of the two leaders, said in a mosque sermon broadcast on the Islamist movement’s radio station, referring to Israel.
-------------
and lieberman wanna do the same to gaza as the ua to nagaaki
and they still do settlements in the west bank
and they threaten the palestinian in jerusalem
and they still keep the largest prison up
and they still call arabs the devil
they still print book full of hate they still bring the message of hate at the TV and the radio
and the leaders still dont accept the rights of humans
and they still ....

come on you know it your self

maybe you also have to say something that make sence?

Barry   April 22nd, 2009 1:20 am ET

Albanian Professor -

Incapable of original thought again?

Barry   April 22nd, 2009 1:35 am ET

CS -

Hamas was elected by something like 87% of the vote. To say Hamas is bad for firing rockets while the people who put them in power are not seems ridiculous. Hamas was a well known, violent, Islamic terrorist organization with a charter to destroy Israel and to never make peace with them. The intent of the Palestinian people is quite clear.

I don't believe there are recognized borders for Palestine. There has never been a country or state of Palestine. There was no country on that land when Israel reclaimed it. The Jews have been on that land for thousands of years. The Arab invaders didn't come until the 10th century. It is my opinion that the Palestinians in Israel are mostly squatters on Israeli land. If the Palestinians think they have a valid claim to the land, take it to the courts. Solve it there, without violence. The Palestinians can't do that, though, can they? I suspect they know that their claim is just based on lies, fabrications and falsified history.

Barry   April 22nd, 2009 2:10 am ET

CS -

Your claims of harm from electricity cut offs and blockades of food and medicine have been thoroughly debunked many times now. Show me the starving Gazans. I haven't seen one.

Hitting a lab where the Palestinians are making explosives is a far cry from trying to keep the Palestinians uneducated, don't you think? I think the whole world would like to see educated Palestinians actually working for a living instead of being on the dole for 60+ years while attacking their neighbors with rockets, bulldozers, axes, knives, rocks, mortars, and firebombs.

Attacking Hamas terrorists who are hiding in buildings around a hospital is a lot different than actually targeting a hospital. In fact, Hamas threw hospital patients out on the street so they could cower in hospitals. Some even dressed up as nurses. LOL. Attacking Israeli civilians from hospitals, mosques, schools, and crowded urban areas is more than just your average everyday Islamic terrorist war crimes. It goes to the character of the people. It was clearly their intent to MAXIMIZE the number of civilian casualties on both sides. You think the Israelis are bad because they defend themselves against this Islamic terrorist aggression. Israel worked much harder at preserving the lives of Gazan civilians than Hamas, their elected government, did. The lives of Palestinians are more dear to the Israelis than to Hamas.

CS   April 22nd, 2009 11:38 am ET

I.B.Wright. Once again, you bring truth and realism to this blog full of name calling, argumentative little children, who refuse to admitt that Israel needs to change her policies.

I mean, for little john to say, "when you lose you attack" but to have never supplied a rebuttle to the facts that I stated, shows their lack of ability to engage in a meaningful conversation. I, you, and many others have provided links, and multimedia, to support our statements, and all they can do is name-call, whine, and call us liars. Even after IDF SOLDIERS ADMITTED TO KILLING CIVILIANS UNNECESSARILY; even after reputable entities with a vast amount of resources have come out, and said that Israel has committed crimes, and acted in abundance; even after Israeli, and Jewish people from around the world have condemned their acts, these people still try to hold onto something.

I mean here's Barry saying that my claims have been debunked, when you, him, and everyone else in here have seen the links, and multimedia I have used to support what I say. I don't just blurt out things, I say them, and provide a source that backs it up. They probably don't even take the time to read them, because they fear being wrong.

CS   April 22nd, 2009 11:53 am ET

Well here's some more back-up for what I say;

Israel attacks Syria, Iraq, Lebanon,
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9013shtml

And just because barry refuses to recognize Palestine, does not mean it's not a country. It also says that he is no better than his counterparts who don't recognize Israel. Well here's another fact that you all can look up;

57 Nations worldwide, do not recognize Israel. This is about a 3rd of the world population. Maybe if they acted a little more like people intead of bullying ogres, they would get some more support. If they continue on this line, they will gain more enemies than friends.

Like this nonsense talk of attacking Iran. PLEASE! They know better. But they continiue to try and bully them, and pull the U.S. into their little game. This is what WEAK bullies do. They run their mouth to try and scare people, and when that does'nt work, they run and get a group of guys to take on their feared nemesis. It won't work. Obama's too smart. Anyway, Iran is too powerful, connected, and intelligent for Israel to do this. If they did, they would be in for a rude awakening. And rightfully so. They think they can go around bobming people, unprovoked, but they WILL meet their match one day if they keep it up.
Russia is too powerful, China is too big, N.Korea is too crazy and willing to do anything.

john wayne   April 22nd, 2009 1:38 pm ET

Even after IDF SOLDIERS ADMITTED TO KILLING CIVILIANS UNNECESSARILY;

=======================================================

That's a lie, no such thing happened

john wayne   April 22nd, 2009 1:43 pm ET

Well here’s some more back-up for what I say;

Israel attacks Syria, Iraq, Lebanon,
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9013shtml

===============================================

The following is from the website that CS uses for more back-up on what he says:

The Electronic Intifada (EI), found at electronicIntifada.net, publishes news, commentary, analysis, and reference materials about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict from a Palestinian perspective.

A completely reliable and objective website, right CS???

BWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa

The Electronic Intifada (EI), found at electronicIntifada.net, publishes news, commentary, analysis, and reference materials about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict from a Palestinian perspective.

CS   April 22nd, 2009 2:18 pm ET

http:www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/03/23/idf.gaza/

According to this CNN article posted on march 23, 2009..."Israeli soldiers said last week that Palestinian civilians were killed and Palestinian property was intentionally destroyed during Israel's military campaign in Gaza, according to the newspaper Haaretz."

Now are you going to tell me that CNN, and HAARETZ (of all people) publishes news from a Palestinian perspective?

You should probably think more before you speak.

CS   April 22nd, 2009 2:50 pm ET

little john. Explain to me why what I said was a lie. You can't, because I already provided you with the link that PROVES what I said.

I don't just make opinionated statements like..."that's a lie"

You and your buddies are really weak. Your arguments are tired. Give up. Go to another site. You cannot contend here.

Professor   April 22nd, 2009 2:51 pm ET

Israelis John Wayne and Barry,

you do not know what you are talking about

you lie, falsify history, make unsupported accusations and NEVER ever relate to any fact you are presented with that does not fit twisted reality

CS   April 22nd, 2009 3:13 pm ET

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/03/23/idf.gaza/

Barry   April 23rd, 2009 4:08 am ET

CS -

You and everybody else knows that Carlos thoroughly filled the pages with the facts debunking your claims. He provided verifiable and direct facts to support his position. You just vaguely referred to a bunch of websites and said that they agreed with your position. When I tried to check some of them out, they didn't have anything to do with what you claimed. As far as I have seen, you are a fraud. You thrive on inuendo and accusations but refuse the verdict when the jury comes in and the facts are known. If you hear an accusation about Israel you proclaim it as proof that Israel is evil. An accusation is just that – an accusation. Given the Palestinian/Muslim tradition of lying, accusations don't mean much in that part of the world. Palestinians and Muslims are so full of hatred, they will make up anything as long as it makes the Jews look bad. Just read the crap that the Albanian Professor writes. You are entitled to your opinions. Just try to find the line between opinion and fact. You can have an opinion on an accusation, but an accusation by itself is proof of nothing.

The Israelis are not perfect. No one is. But they are not the devils that you try to make them out to be by proclaiming the accusations as facts but ignoring the truth that comes later. You are trying to mislead people. I hope most people are smarter than that.

Barry   April 23rd, 2009 4:33 am ET

CS -

You claim that IDF SOLDIERS ADMITTED TO KILLING CIVILIANS UNNECESSARILY. Can you show me a single one of these accusations that hasn't already been refuted? I know you have been provided with several links that disprove/dispute those accusations. It seems that your moral compass doesn't swing all the way around. You present the accusations as reality and ignore the facts when the accusations are disproven. Like when your accusations about the electricity cuts were disproved, like when your accusations about the blockades of food and medicine were disproven, like when your accusations of white phosphorous being a banned weapon were disproven ,etc., yet you still persist with accusations you know are false. If that doesn't prove your bias, then I guess you are just a hopeless propagandist.

Barry   April 23rd, 2009 5:01 am ET

CS -

If Palestine is a country, why do they only have observer status at the UN? Why are they not recognized as a country by most other countries?

I think it will be clear when Palestine becomes a real country rather than just a proposed state – we'll be able to see the flames from space.

Professor   April 23rd, 2009 10:06 am ET

Israeli Barry,

CS is not claiming that IDF SOLDIERS ADMITTED TO KILLING CIVILIANS UNNECESSARILY.

This is what the Israeli Occupation Soldiers stated to the media.

If you don't believe them then you should argue with them and not wth CS.

Get it?

GLeigh   April 23rd, 2009 1:50 pm ET

Prof – Some soldiers in all countries do hate killing; I would if one. It must be terribly hard on many levels. Some policemen hate it too. I knew one personally, guilt ridden. The other person was about to shoot him though so he had no choice. Wars are harder and faster and mistakes are made. It's good to vent. Innocent people are always lost during wars, always. Soldiers learn and move forward mostly.

I'm certain that the soldiers of the Hamas people and others feel guilt also. Hurting others is such a terrible thing in all ways. Too bad we can't all just accept each other, work hard with our energy to create and build, and let the old junk go. Maybe some day.

I.B. Wright   April 23rd, 2009 5:17 pm ET

barry- "Given the Palestinian/Muslim tradition of lying, accusations don’t mean much in that part of the world. Palestinians and Muslims are so full of hatred, they will make up anything as long as it makes the Jews look bad."
-------------------------------–

Go back and read your garbage berry; it's pretty clear who is full of hate and lies. No big surprise though since it is consistent with all of your posts and those of your comrades. Let me see if I can paraphrase them for you:

1. Jews are good, Palestinians are bad. Just ignore who is inflicting the suffering and abuse on the palestinians.
2. Jews kill hundreds of women and children, Hamas killed maybe six at most in the last conflict. But....it's Hamas fault because jews don't target kill women and children, Hamas does.
3.Jews don't lie, palestinians always lie- the white phosphorous thing was just a misundertanding; same with targeting innnocent civilians. Don't worry none of this is true anyway because Israel checked into it and refutes everything.
4. Israel wants peace, palestinians want war. Well.. Israel wants peace as long as they can keep building new settlements on land they don't own and only have to give back most of what they stole in the first place. The palestinians on the other hand refuse to make any concessions so obvioulsy it's them who doesn't want peace.
5. No-one in the region should be allowed to have nukes except Israel because they are the good guys and you can trust them with nukes.
6. Israel has the support of most of the world- forget the fact that only five countries in the world believe they are not guilty of human rights abuses.

Does this about sum it up or did I miss a few? Everyone is begining to see through the hypocracy and propaganda so it won't be long now before Israel's "woe-is-me" attitude doesn't fly anymore. I hope you have a back up plan. LMAO!

Barry   April 23rd, 2009 5:23 pm ET

Albanian Professor -

Your support for CS is touching, really. CS actually said, "Even after IDF SOLDIERS ADMITTED TO KILLING CIVILIANS UNNECESSARILY; even after reputable entities with a vast amount of resources have come out, and said that Israel has committed crimes, and acted in abundance; even after Israeli, and Jewish people from around the world have condemned their acts, these people still try to hold onto something."

He does note give attribution or phrase it as a quote. If you were a real Professor, I'd expect you to know that. Maybe they have much lower academic standards in Albania.

Most of the reports that I have read claiming that IDF soldiers admitted killing civilians unnecessarily were based on rumors and misunderstandings – typical ME reporting and sensationalism. They have since been refuted. The only civilian killing that I can remember the Israelis admitting to was 21 family members who were killed when their house was accidentally hit when targeting a weapons lab that happened to be next door. This was from an internal investigation conducted by the IDF on the conduct of their soldiers during Operation Cast Lead. They determined that international law as not violated by the Israelis during the operation. Of course, that was the IDF investigating itself, so you can take that as you will. It is encouraging that they did admit to some mistakes, but of course that is little compensation for the relatives of the dead and wounded, and the homeless. War is a terrible thing and mistakes do happen.

It really is too bad and very sad that the Palestinians continue to attack Israeli civilians. They obviously still want more war and the current government of Israel is likely to give it to them.

Professor   April 23rd, 2009 10:55 pm ET

Israeli Barry,

There is no rumors about it... I have sat down personally with some of the refuzniks and heard their statments first hand... so don't try your lies with me... it does not work.... You are nothing but a foolish liar who does not know what he is talking about... You like to blindly support a racist nation living on a stolen land.

Barry   April 24th, 2009 2:27 am ET

I.B. Wright

You can continue to make your false claims, but I don't think anyone believes you anymore. I have already pointed out where you have misquoted me. You've misquoted others, too. It's clear who is lying. My claims are not based on hatred, but on research and informed opinion. If you want to learn about the Muslim tradition of lying, look up the work taqiyya since you don't believe me. If you don't believe in the vicious hatred of the Palestinian people, read the charter of the Hamas Islamic terrorist government that they overwhelmingly elected. It is a truly evil document that just spews hatred. The Palestinians continue to attack Israeli civilians, demonstrating that they truly do not want peace.

The only "garbage" here is your childishly emotional, uninformed, and inaccurate posts.

CS   April 24th, 2009 10:52 am ET

Yeah Barry. You're right, and HAARETZ, CNN, AMNESTY INTERRNATIONAL, NPR RADIO, YANNI GOODMAN, IDF SOLDIERS, http://www.nimn.org (Jewish voice for peace..Chicago chapter), all these folks are wrong, and you and carlos are right. You guys put a right wing spin on things, and get info from pro Israeli sites; we provide you with sites/sources that are from various cultures/backgrounds/belief systems, who, in many cases disagree with what Israel is doing.
Carlos has NEVER debunked ANYTHING I have posted. He has argued his point, but how do you argue with the sources. I mean, when Yanni Goodman made the short about Gaza blockades, he wanted to focus on minute details, rather than the fact that a Jew was making a video, depicting the harshness of this whole thing. You can argue with me all you want. But I seriously doubt that anyone will believe YOU clowns, over the list of sources that I mentioned above. Have a nice day:)

Itai   April 24th, 2009 8:36 pm ET

Barry
April 23rd, 2009 1723 GMT
...
...

It really is too bad and very sad that the Palestinians continue to attack Israeli civilians. They obviously still want more war and the current government of Israel is likely to give it to them.
---------

its really too bad and very sad that the israelians continue to rob Palestinian land. They obviously still want more war and the current government of Israel is likely to give it to them.

dick tracey   April 25th, 2009 3:34 pm ET

"the hypocracy and propaganda"

your hyppo-crazy is unbelievable

learn english!

Professor   April 26th, 2009 6:11 am ET

Israeli Barry,

Thats the nature of the struggle of Independence from any occupation in the history... its actually not sad that the Palestinians wants rid the occupiers at any cost... that what patriotism is all about. I have no doubt that the Israeli occupier is going to give them more war and killing (we know its in the nature of the Israeli occupation regardless of who is office current of past)... so you can keep bragging about it... that will know what kind of creature you are.... ;-p

GLeigh   April 26th, 2009 11:39 pm ET

I.B. Wright – Europe gives Gaza fuel. Israel sends them electricity. I believe it really, odd as it sounds, because some on here have fussed about the electricity. This part of the world has oil? Men should have tons of jobs (U.S. guys regularly travel state to state to work, much longer distances) – China should be sooo lucky to have this oil. But, I keep hearing about body vest bombs, threats to Israel, planes into buildings, bad stuff in general. We need stable governments and stable, hard working people, not threats and violence and more bombs. Who, what company, or tourist business, will invest in such areas? There are plenty of bombs, nukes, in subs in our oceans, bumping each other. I keep hear that more countries want them – why? We have enough to probably ruin about everything, if anyone is dumb enough to send them off. They must be expensive to build and maintain.

GLeigh   April 26th, 2009 11:42 pm ET

There are some GREAT books written about the nuke threats, especially in the 1940's and early 1950's. My fav is "Alas, Babylon." It's a great book!!! Not the most realistic or accurate, this was before all the knowledge maybe, but still well thought out. There are a ton of others, but this is one of the most fun and best to read.

Professor   April 27th, 2009 9:08 am ET

Israeli GLeigh,

have you read the book written on Israeli nukes?...

They are the worst threat that exist in the middle east today. A threat to the peace in the region.

I.B. Wright   April 27th, 2009 5:49 pm ET

Barry- "If you want to learn about the Muslim tradition of lying, look up the work taqiyya since you don’t believe me"

"The only “garbage” here is your childishly emotional, uninformed, and inaccurate posts"
-------------------------------

You can't answer my questions or respond to my posts but you're pretty good at whining about being mis-quoted? The problem is you have this mis-conception that people are as slow as you are but it's clear some of us are not. I guess we'll just have to let everyone decide for themselves how adult, informed and accurate you are. In reading the posts of others, you're obviously none of these things. LMAO!


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