And this confirms the point: Palestinians do not hate Jews, but they rightfully deplore radical Zionists who have stolen their land, enforced an apartheid regime and massacred many Palestinians with the help of arms supplied by US tax payers.

Many good Jews as depicted in this blog protest to the radical Zionist Israeli abuse of Palestinians. But then the radical Israelis will describe them as self hating Jews or liars etc.

The fact remains many Jews world wide are disgusted with Israels politics and it is not anti Semitic to recognize the diabolical treatment the Palestinians have endured for 60 years.

some israelis still think the messiah wil come after a war
thats why some still search for a war

what will this messiah bring to jew jews if they force up a war only to make him come?

if i would be religious i would say lets come the messiah ... and let him throw thoese people who search for war to the deepest sea

maybe he will come in some years ... if it is clear who searches for war and who theyr alyes are

i dont think he will come
but i am sure war is not the way ... a lession which some people still have to learn after vietnam congo iraq afgahnistan and hiden war fundings around the world as israel

if the world escalates they all will show theyr face .... and there will be no need for a messiah anymore

Called Viva Palestina, an aid convoy included 200 American...

http://www.imemc.org/article/61133

Excellent! Hats off to those Jewish people who keep to their faith, but do not follow the evil political machine that is the Israeli govt. Very nice to see Jews and other faiths/cultures come together for a good cause. It also proves to the hate filled supporters of oppression that they are wrong. But as John A. said, they will undoubtedly find some excuse, or try to discredit these folks, or 'solidly debunk' any of their claims. No matter what, they'll still deny any wrongdoing of Israel.

But on a positive note, this is great news!!!

Radicals are always bad, in any group. Some even blow up themselves and helpless others. It is very sad. I can stand radical religious people, but not radical violent people. I have no tolerance of people who hurt others. Religion, I can avoid the prayer groups or whatever, but bombs that are hidden are tougher to avoid.

John A

There were enough Amercans who believed in Hitler, remember?

University Rector.

Why do you write Americans believed in Hitler? do you also imply all who are disgusted by Israel’s evil politics are supporters of Hitler?

can't you see the photos? These are orthodox Jews! Many Jews around the world are disgusted with Israel. This country was born out of a holocaust and now it commits a holocaust against Palestinians. University Rector you have no shame and you are a total disgrace to the Jewish faith.

Palestinians do not hate jews?

read the hamas charter

when haniye need a photo opportunuty, he will even appear together with jews, tomorrow he will murder them

wake up, john, or don't you believe in the hamas charter anymore?

Here we go again with the "stolen land fairytale"! Jon A, CS and Hope-– right to your congressmen and Obama demand that the stolen land be returned. Be sure to include all the land belonging to the Native Americans, Mexicans and Indigenous tribes of Alaska as well.

Good luck on your endeavors!

John A -–haven't you given up on that yet??? You've been thoroughly trounced and you claims have been refuted by your own posts showing that there were never any Arabs who lived in the Land of Israel before the Israelites. Your Jebusites and Canaanites were not of Arab origin, proven by your own postings.

So, what "stolen land" is it that you speak of? Texas? California? Alaska? The entire continental US ?? There's your "stolen land" !!

Hope,

Yea, pretty funny stuff !!! They started the journey July 4 and have been putzing around in Egypt because the Egyptians wouldn't grant entrance to Gaza. So far they've gotten Zero media coverage from any int'l source !!!! Go figure!! Probably has something to do with the fact that it was Egypt blocking their path and not the Israelis. If it was Israel standing in the way--it would be a bigger media circus than the Michael Jackson memorial extravaganza!

As it turned out, they bought 47 vehicles to deliver to the Palestinians, including 4 ambulances--Egypt granted permission for 2 ambulances to enter-– the rest of the vehicles will never see Gaza!!! In addition to that- the 200 people were granted permission to enter Gaza for 24 hrs. And if they failed to exit on time, they'd be stuck there until the next general opening of the Rafah crossing-whenever that may be!

And the humanitarian aid they were taking-- no one is really saying what happened to any of that stuff-- it doesn't appear that any of it entered with the participants-- but they're not talking about that--probably for fear of looking like a bunch of fools who arrived with nothing but their smelly, dirty a$$es after spending 12 days in buses in the Egyptian desert!!

But hey-- "We're here" !!!!

The best thing that could happen would be that Cynthia McKinney would fail to leave on time and get stuck there-never to see the outside world again!!!

Oddly, I tend to be a religious person. Yet it gets so abused. God is love not bombs? People are so confused in general. There are too many of us maybe for the resources and we refuse to move forward and figure out how to control our population though we all know it. The radicals give relgion, of all types, a bad name. It happens to all religions. Back centuries ago there were witch hunts and odd stuff.

JOHN A

Your usual falsification of history:

"This country was born out of a holocaust and now it commits a holocaust against Palestinians. "

1. Explain Tel Aviv (founded 1909)
2. Explain Petah Tikva (founded 1878)
3. Explain Ramat Gan (founded 1921)
4. Explain Herzlia (founded 1924)
5. Explain Natanya (founded 1929)

etc etc etc

So the Jews stole the land and founded the state after the holocaust

what complete nonsense

the jews were there, long before the so-called palestinians, your bosses, and founded thriving cities long before the holocaust

name one palestinian city

"Many Jews around the world are disgusted with Israel. "

Are you jewish, John? you say many jews are disgusted with israel and come up with a few lunatic orthodox jews, that belong to a fringe movement of judaism that has no more than 5000 followers all over the world. so in order to justify "many" i must assumne that you and your extensive family who are all disgusted with israel are also jewish.

So the University Rector pretends the Jews have a great historical right to Palestine and claims the Jews were there before the Arabs. This is non educated rubbish.

He says>“Explain Tel Aviv (founded 1909)”

This is very easy to explain. Before the UN donated Palestine to the Jews, the largest port in the very same area was Yafo. Yafo is Arabic and in Hebrew it is Jaffa.

Yafo is thought to be the oldest port in the world and was founded by the Canaanites. The Canaanites were Arabic.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan

(second Paragraph 7th line)
“Canaanite culture apparently developed in situ from the Circum-Arabian Nomadic Pastoral Complex….

and Amorites (link), which lead to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorite
Under Origin:
beginning about 2400 BC, the land of the Amorites is associated with the West, including Syria and Canaan, although their ultimate origin may have been Arabia).

After the Canaanite domination, King David and his son King Solomon conquered Jaffa and used its port. Later it was recaptured by the Arabs, then the crusaders, then Ottomans and finally the UN donated the region to the Jews out of guilt created from a European holocaust.

The Canaanites also founded Jerusalem and this was an Arabic city before King David conquered it. Again the truth remains that all principle towns including Jerusalem were founded by Arabs long before a single Jews set foot in any of them.

The port of Yafo makes a good case study of the region. Yafo is thought to have been founded in 7.500 BC by the Arabic Canaanites.

In 1470 BC it was capture by the Egyptians.

The Jewish King David ruled the city during his reign which lasted between 971 – 931 BCE.

YES!! THE JEWISH KING RULED THIS PORT FOR ONLY 40 YEARS.

By the time the UN donated Palestine to the Jews, this port was already 9.000 years old and a Jewish King ruled this land for 40 years. Therefore the Jews ruled this land for 0.4% of history. Yes for less than 1% of known history this land was ruled by Jews. WHAT A PATHETIC CLAIM!!

G You are right "God is love not bombs". So why did Zionist Israel bomb and kill 1300 civilians in Gaza?

John A Jebusite<

Do you even read what you post??

You wrote “Canaanite culture apparently developed in situ from the Circum-Arabian Nomadic Pastoral Complex…."

Do you know what "in situ" means ?? In this instance it means the Canaanite culture was developed where it was located. And was influenced by the Arabian Nomads !!!!!

TRANSLATION-- the Canaanites did not come from Arabia or the Tribes of Arabia. They were indigenous to the land known as Canaan! Their culture devloped as a result of Arab Nomads!!

It's trully amazing, English isn't even my first language and I need to explain things to because of poor somprehension skills.

The Arab Palestinians which occupy present day Palestine are not decendents of the Canaanites or the Jebusites or the Amorites-– these ethinc groups are extinct.

But the bottom line is this-– since the Canaanites, Jebusites and Amorites who lived in and around the Land of Israel are extinct. No ethinc group who lived in the Land of Israel prior to the Jews exists in the world today. The Jews lived in the land for millenia prior to the influx of the "Palestinian Arabs" which live there today.

Even the websites you linked fails to identify any of these groups as "Arabs"--yet you go on a rampant rhetorical rant about them as being of Arab origin. What a hoot !!!

Nowhere in the entire website http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan does it ever claim that the Canaanites or were Arabs !!

But you can call them that if you'd like !!! It still doesn't make it true !!

Since there are such people as the Canaanites, Jebusites or Amorites- you're back to your same old tired argument--the land belongs to the Palestinian Arabs because they invaded and conquered the land in the 7th century !!!

What a hoot !!!!! They turned down the offer for a Palestinian Arab State 61 years ago!!!

john A

prove 1`300 civilians

you never related to Tel Aviv, Petah Tikva, Herzliaand natanya and all the others

you gave some story on jaffa

and suddenly you change your old story, now it is the Caananites and not the jebusites who founded jerusalem. Where did you lose the jebusites along the way of lies and falsification of history?

and neither the jesubites nor the cananites were arab, nor were they muslim

you see, all you post is utter nonsense and the jews were there long before the muslims

but you don't even know that arafat was egyptian!!!!!!!

The following were identified by hamas as civilian deaths, although the same names appear in their book of heroes died fighting during the gaza war. there are many many more and your nonsense, johnny baby, can easily be disproven

• Jihad Abu Medif (Medyiff) – identified as member of Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade

• Haitham Abu al-Qumsan – identified as member of Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades

• Hamdi Fareed Abu Hamada – identified as member of Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades

• Eyad al-Maqqousi – identified as member of Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades

• Mohammed 'Abed Hassan Brbakh – identified as DFLP commander

• Tariq Nimer Abu Amsha – identified as member of Islamic Jihad al-Quds Brigades

• Shams Omar – Al-Quds (Islamic Jihad) commander in Gaza

John A,

Don't you just hate it when you're wrong !!!!!!

And I just love it -- "Amorites...... their ultimate origin may have been Arabia---"may have been" !!!!!! What a hoot !!! Is that the same as-"could have been" or "maybe" or "possibly"??

WHAT A PATHETIC CLAIM!!

Gee- the statement could have been a little stronger in your favor had they said-- "probably" or "most likely" or " with little doubt" --but no--it was a simple "may have been"!!

TRANSLATION-– "we really don't know and we definitely do not have any facts to prove it" !

The Jews have lived in the land of Judea for over 3 millennia. But you want to focus on a single Jewish King !! How much sense does make?-ZERO ! But-it suits your agenda–so that makes it OK!!

You need to get over it!

It's like your President Obamessiah told you and all the Muslims and Arabs-- "Israel is not going to go away"!

Sorry for your luck!

And by the way--- can you please post a link to any site that contains the words "Arabic Canaanites" ???

I'm still yet to find ANYTHING that contains those two words used in conjunction with each other!!!

John A,

Do you even read what you post??

You wrote “Canaanite culture apparently developed in situ from the Circum-Arabian Nomadic Pastoral Complex…."

Do you know what "in situ" means ?? In this instance it means the Canaanite culture was developed where it was located. And was influenced by the Arabian Nomads !!!!!

TRANSLATION-- the Canaanites did not come from Arabia or the Tribes of Arabia. They were indigenous to the land known as Canaan! Their culture devloped as a result of Arab Nomads!!

It's trully amazing, English isn't even my first language and I need to explain things to because of poor somprehension skills.

The Arab Palestinians which occupy present day Palestine are not decendents of the Canaanites or the Jebusites or the Amorites-– these ethinc groups are extinct.

But the bottom line is this-– since the Canaanites, Jebusites and Amorites who lived in and around the Land of Israel are extinct. No ethinc group who lived in the Land of Israel prior to the Jews exists in the world today. The Jews lived in the land for millenia prior to the influx of the "Palestinian Arabs" which live there today.

Even the websites you linked fails to identify any of these groups as "Arabs"--yet you go on a rampant rhetorical rant about them as being of Arab origin. What a hoot !!!

Nowhere in the entire website http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan does it ever claim that the Canaanites or were Arabs !!

But you can call them that if you'd like !!! It still doesn't make it true !!

Since there are such people as the Canaanites, Jebusites or Amorites- you're back to your same old tired argument--the land belongs to the Palestinian Arabs because they invaded and conquered the land in the 7th century !!!

What a hoot !!!!! They turned down the offer for a Palestinian Arab State 61 years ago!!!

John A,

Wow-even the Canaanite languages died out-- and history shows they had their own language- not Arabic or any form of Arabic and it doesn't appear that any Arab cultures ever spoke the language of the Canaanites- but the Israelites did !!!!

Amazing isn't it !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanite_languages

John A,

You know very little about Judaism, the religion that you hate so much that it caused you to abandon your Christianity.

The Neturei Karta are a radical group of ultra-orthodox Jews who formed a self-contained separate group in reaction to the increasing numbers of secular Jews who had abandoned religious practise after continual anti-semitism induced migration and emancipation in Europe.The secular Jews still maintained a Jewish culture and for many, Zionism was integral to Jewish culture.

The Neturei Karta mostly live in Israel and just like many Jews, their presence in the land pre-dates the State.
Despite their anti-Zionist sentiments that are derived from their anti-secular opinions, they would never deny the historical and religious connection of the Jews to the Land of Israel.

They are a naive and self-absorbed group, and have many other extreme opinions that I'm sure you would be the first to criticize. However, as usual you are selective with your criticisms and as long as a group is anti-Zionist, then they deserve your praise and defence.

King David was not the first or the last Jewish king or ruler in the Land of Israel.
Borders were changing all the time with land changing hands continuously.

Do you actually understand what "Circum-Arabian Nomadic Pastoral Complex" means?

The first complex civilization developed in Mesopotamia, from where groups migrated elsewhere including the region now refered to as Arabia.
The Jews have a recorded account of their migration from Mesopotamia to Canaan, and are the only nation that can prove continous existance and culture from that time.
Any Canaanites who may have originated in Mesopotamia and have migrated to Canaan via "Arabia" certainly didn't identify themseves as Arabs nor carry with them a distinct Arab culture. They are extinct now and are not the ancestors of modern-day Arabs who migrated from the region of Arabia after the creation of Islam.

John A Jebusite,

I'm still trying to find a reference that uses the words "Arabic Canaanites" in conjunction.

I can't find anything!!! Nothing-zero-zilch --nada !

Have you found anything yet???? ( And I don't mean something that you just make up or invent on your own!)

John A -

It's funny how your arrogance and revisionist history always blow up in your face when you try to provide evidence for your lies. I guess your reading comprehension problem doesn't help. The Jews have been on the land continuously for thousands of years. The Arab invaders arrived between the 7th and 10th century. No matter how you approach the subject, legally, historically, archaeologically, biologically – it always ends up the same – the land undeniably belongs to the Jews.

The Palestinians are just violent terrorists and squatters on Jewish land. The Palestinians elected an Islamic terrorist government in an effort to kill Jewish civilians because they are too weak to steal the land by force.

Filipe,
You said,
"Canaanite languages died out-and history shows they had their own language— not Arabic or any form of Arabic and it doesn’t appear that any Arab cultures ever spoke the language of the Canaanites—"

Arabic is a branch of Semitic Languages
The Canaanite Language, also know as Phoenician is a branch of the West Semitic languages that include Hebrew, Aramaic, Syriac, Arabic and others.

Source:
http://www.canaanite.org/language/
First Paragraph

Your hatred of Arabs, Arabia, Arabic Languages is so trasparent...

One more thing Filipe..

You said:
"The Arab Palestinians which occupy present day Palestine are not decedents of the Canaanites or the Jebusites or the Amorites—– these ethinc groups are extinct."

It is possible to stretch this and say, the present Jewish population of Israel (blond blue eyed European immigrants) are not decedents of the Canaanites either!!...

Filipe, bare with me, one more thing..

You said,
"It’s trully amazing, English isn’t even my first language and I need to explain things to because of poor somprehension skills".

somprehension??????
Ok, now i get..Filipe, there are plenty of good schools out there that can help "special people" with their somprehension skills. Sorry dude, i did not mean to pick on you, I should have known better :)

University rector. Hamas does not speak for all Palestinians, just like Bush did'nt speak for all Americans. Your foresight is astounding.

Gleigh. This blog speaks about a positive encounter between Hamas/Anti-zionist Jews and Palestinian children. Why do you try to keep the focus on bombs and bullets. As much as you have spoken in the past about moving forward, and leaving the past in the past, it's funny how, when someone from inside the Jewish faith denounces Israel's actions, you revert back to your true self. Very transparent.

Filipe & Miriam, Your refusal to define the original habitants of the ME as Arabic is neither here nor there. What is undisputable is that all major towns including Jerusalem were not founded by the Jews. To claim they were is just more farcical Zionist propaganda.

If you had the slightest clue you would understand that the original inhabitants of the region are not extinct. People have not become extinct, however they have evolved into other groups. If we use your logic then nearly all people are extinct as nearly all cultures have transformed their languages in the last 3000 years.

Filipe have you noticed you always need to claim you are right and others are wrong. Perhaps this is because you are deprived of intellectual acknowledgement. This is totally understandable as your words continue to be self praised rubbish.

Filipe. There are many reading comprehension tools out ther that can help you stay focused on what you're reading. I never said anything about stolen land. If it's the anti-zionism displayed by these JEWISH people (not me, Hope, or John A) you refer to, than understand that nobody is talking about giving land back. You made mention of Obama. Even he says that the further building of settlements must stop, and a Palestinian state needs to be recognized with it's own boarders. It's the further encroachment of Israel onto land where Palestinians ALREADY LIVE!!! You're a funny guy. You, GLeigh, Rectum, you all do the same thing. EVEN WHEN A MEMBER OF THE JEWISH FAITH COMES FORWARD AND SPEAKS OUT AGAINST ISRAELS POLICIES, YOU STILL TRY AND CHANGE THE SUBJECT, OR DIVERT ATTENTION, OR ATTACK THE SOURCE'S CREDIBILITY.
You guys are just sorry excuses for people. Too prideful to admitt you're wrong I guess. Time and again, over the last months we have seen repeated groups (of all different faiths/ethnicities/beleif systems) denounce Israel's treatment of her neighbors, and you clowns STILL want to argue. That's classic.

Yeah miriam you're right. Israelis are superior to everyone else in the region because of their ability to maintain their own records. That's not racist at all. Unfortunately, this racist testamony comes from a biased person who is Jewish. Arabs can say the same about their records. Iraqis can say the same about mesopotamia, Greeks can say the same. Romans can say the same. The problem is that they will all be biased, because they speak of their own history, so of course they will glorify it a bit more.

But your arrogance is astounding to me. Basically, you're saying that Israel is entitled to take ownership[ of the whole area. You're an extremist, just like those that the anti-zionists speak out against. Hopefully, this will continue to happen so that those who can use reason better than you hateful people, can join the fight against injustice over there. I see an end to the wickedness on the horizon.

How desperate the Zionist story tellers have become.
You can deny whatever you like but you will never be able to demonstrate your nonsense.

Jaffa is 9000 years old. How long was this area controlled by Jews?
Give a non Zionist bs link which demonstrates the Jews founded the region and controlled it for more than half of this time.

You wont find any history linking Jewish sovereignty to more than a tiny almost insignificant fraction of time.

You will claim that real history is a Jew hating lie, but you will never be able to prove a superior claim of sovereignty.

No doubt one of you weird people will claim that because Jews practiced their religion in the region 3000 years ago, this must mean they were the majority and have a continues right to the land. Will Chines Christians have exclusive rights to china in 2000 years. Your logic is weak, false and intentionally misleading.

It seems to accurately record history is also anti Semitic. The Zionists place in history will be as favorable to the Jews as the Nazi's are to Germany. You people are your lies are your own biggest enemy, not the Palestinians.

Ahh..one more for the road..You are a magnet!
Filipe you said–“Amorites...their ultimate origin may have been Arabia——-”may have been” !!!!!! What a hoot !!! Is that the same as—”could have been” or “maybe” or “possibly”?? WHAT A PATHETIC CLAIM!!"

For you somprehension skills...
Ancient Semitic people of Mesopotamia, Syria and Palestine, emerging as the dominating people around 2000 BCE, controlling the region until disappearing around 1600 BCE. It is believed that the Amorites originated in Arabia...

Source:
http://looklex.com/e.o/amorites.htm

Definition of "Believed"= Accept something as true.
Source:
http://encarta.msn.com/

CS,

No thanks for your hate.

When did I say Israelis are superior?

When did I say I was Jewish?

You seem to be confusing Jews and Israelis and their recorded history.

I've seen and studied Greek and Roman historical records dating back over two millenia. However, although several texts have been found with early Arab inscriptions, there is no major Arab historical record preceding the Koran. That is not racist!

When did I claim" Israel can take ownership of the whole area"?

I'm simply challenging the misleading, ill-informed statements some people write on this blog.

John A,

Nobody says other people didn't exist in The Holyland before the Jews. However those nations are extinct and nobody has claimed and proven continuous descent from them.

Jews have proof of continual residency, presence, and attachment to the Land since their arrival. Invaders attacked, slaughtering and exiling the Jews from the land, however a Jewish population always remained, even though they were not the rulers, watching nation after nation come and go, with none calling the land a homeland.

HOPE

you said:
It is possible to stretch this and say, the present Jewish population of Israel (blond blue eyed European immigrants) are not decedents of the Canaanites either!!…
======================================================

I see, you are in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and Ramat Gan and count blond blue eyed "immigrants"

how many blond blue eyed such immigrants did you find?

Come on, Hope, how many?

CS

your usual falsifications

"Iraqis can say the same about mesopotamia, Greeks can say the same. Romans can say the same."

=================================

Oh yeh, the Italian and Greek cultures are the same as the original ones, they practice the same culture and worship their ancient gods, right CS?

WRONG

Hope

you should read your own sources:
History
2300 BCE: Jericho is settled by the Amorites.
21st century BCE: Heavy immigration of Amorites from Arabia, into the lands of Assyria in the north and Canaan and Lebanon in the west.
Around 2017 BCE: An independent dynasty is established in Isin by Amorite chief, Ishbi-Erra.
Around 1900: The Amorites conquer most of Mesopotamia, and establishes its kings in Babylon.
About 1894: Babylon becomes an independent city state, under the Amorite king, Sumu-abum.
Around 1850: Ebla is rebuilt to a major city by the Amorites, but not to reach quite the level as in the 3rd millennium. Ebla would now only continue as a village.
Around 1830: In Northern Syria, the Amorite kingdom, Yamkhad, is established with Aleppo as its capital.
1792-1750: Hammurabi, the most famous Amorite ruler, king of Babylonia.
Ca. 1595 Hittites attack and largely destroys Babylon, ending the Amorite dynasty ruling here.
Around 1100: A people called Amorites conquers Padam-Aram in Harran.

NOTHING about Palestine

and not surprisingly, sice the word was coined by the Romans

Palestine (Greek: Παλαιστίνη, Palaistinē; Latin: Palaestina; Hebrew: ארץ־ישראל‎, Ereẓ Yisra'el; formerly also פלשׂתינה, Palestina; Arabic: فلسطين‎ Filasṭīn, Falasṭīn, Filisṭīn) is a name which has been widely used since Roman times to refer to the region that was earlier called Judea, which spreads between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River.

Note: Judea, the Jewish name!!

Caught you again, despair, you'll have to do much better to convince anyone (except of course CS or Johnny)

Hope July 20th, 2009 131 GMT

You said:

"It is possible to stretch this and say, the present Jewish population of Israel (blond blue eyed European immigrants) are not decedents of the Canaanites either!!…""

*******************************************

Hope- it's not possible. The Jewish population of Europe have been genetically proven to be of middle eastern origins. Their genetic origins lie within the area of Judea and Sumeria. If you could disprove the genetic information–then it would be possible

Why do you assume that I hate Arabs, Arabia, and the Arabic language??? Just because I don't agree with your perspective-- means I hate them ???

Get over it! Not everyone is like you! If I disagree with something it hardly means I "hate" what I disagree with. It's nothing more than the fact that I disagree!

And yes–everyone makes spelling error every once in a while !

Hope,

The bottom line is the Amorites are an extinct group of people. Just as your post confirms.

That's nothing more than another confirmation that the Israelites were there long before any of the present day Palestinian Arabs.

What is so hard to understand about this fact. No matter what source you dig up–it doesn't change the facts.

Why should a group of Arab Bedouins whose ancestors migrated to the land between the 7th and 10th century think they have the right to claim the land as theirs when the Israelites were there continuously 2 millenia before?

And it is really of no consequence as to how many people were there–whether it be hundreds or thousands or millions. If a group of people already lived there, for thousands of years- how can a group of Arab Bedouins wander in and now claim possession?

After all, the only claim to the land that the Palestinians have ever tried to make are based upon historical grounds-"it's their ancestral homeland"--but ignoring the fact the it is the ancestral homeland of the Israelites.

They can't have it both ways.

John A,

Yes, using your fuzzy logic, is exactly how the Native Americans and Mexicanos lost their native homeland to the white European Occupiers.

1) The Europeans Occupiers invaded in such great numbers and eventually became the majority. So-that gave them right to the land.

Since when does one have to be in the majority to have rights of possession???

Where did you learn this great philosophical tale?

2) The Native Americans and the Mexicanos practiced there religion on the land for thousands of years--but that failed to meet the criteria of ownership of the land as per John A Jebusite and the European Occupiers!

Doesn't quite cut there John A!!! I know it must in your feeble mind, but nothing justifies the European Occupiers invasion and occupation of the land of the Mexicanos and Native Americans.

Why???-–It's quite simple--they were there first ! And nothing you can say will change that.

Just as the Israelites in Judea-they were there first-– no other ethnic group of people that exist in today's world were there before the Israelites!

3) Jaffa-- How long have the Jews controlled Jaffa??? Does it matter as to how long? Why?? No other group of people alive on this earth today controlled it before the Israelites!

So why do you think the city belongs to someone else? Because some came and took it away from the Israelites at some point.

Oh-- but the Israelites, came and took it back.

But, isn't that the way it works??

Well Filpe & University Rector once more belittle this blog with meaningless talk.

The original occupants and founders of Israel are not extinct. People have not become extinct, they have simply evolved into various groups. So we should now all accept real history and stop pretending the Jews founded Israel and were the first to settle there.

As for Filipe, he is unable to demonstrate his version of the origins of man in the middle east and now says this is no longer important. (So why do they always cry about creating the state of Israel 3000 years ago, is this Zionist lie no longer important?)

Then Filipe relates the Jews to European colonists. He claims the most powerful have always occupied and talks like this is a force of nature. Israel is stronger, so its too bad on the Arabs. Again this is an acceptable view as long as you don't cry if Iran wipes Israel of the face of the earth. Also you should not complain about the holocaust, because by Filipes logic the Jews were simply lower down the order of power and therefore its only natural they get wiped out.

But obviously when Israel gets paid back for all their crimes we will suffer another 1000 years of woe to me the persecuted BS. Actually we already suffer the woe to me hypocrisy every time a Palestinian chooses to fight back.

I recently read about the French president wanting to outlaw some restrictive female clothes. I forget the correct spelling of the garment. So I looked it up and was horrified. Just horrified. Women really wear heavy black clothes? I don't know what's underneath or care to imagine.

I have a strong daughter and a strong son close in age. My son is an athlete. He just graduated college and has a good paying job. I've asked him about "girlfriends" but he, and his friends, are still looking for their equals. They want women like them, in any way. My daughter is pretty equal with anyone, guy or gal, and not certain that she ever wants to marry or date long term because guys want to tell her what to do sometimes. I hope my son is able to find a female who hasn't been taught to be less because she is female. But, he can't boss her around. I like the word "partners."

This a wonderful tribute to the original Israelites,and their unrelenting quest for peace,and harmony throughout the "Holy Land" brought about by the "Twelve Tribes" strict interpretation of the Torah,and practice of the Talmud. Bravo! The Ashkenazi Jews (European Jews) approx. 90% are zionist,and somewhat unwelcomed in the "Holy Land" for their aggressive ways,and subtle prevarication of the "Talmud".Thank you for this wonderful article,...

Palestinians don't hate Jews? It seems to me that Muslims, in general, dislike capitalism. We have it in the U.S., and even some Muslims here protest it here. That leads to the question of why they live here if they hate it. Illogical. I have nothing against Muslims or Hindus or Buddhist unless they try to forcefully, by guns or bombs, change what I am. I am what I am. I was born this way because this was my family's beliefs and I respect my family and my older relatives who have passed on. I don't hate anyone for being born something else.

With the world recession, it's all becoming less important, the world conflicts and bickering. That's probably the best thing to come out of the world recession – deperession. People have to learn how to support their huge populations. Those on aide might have to actually work for a living.

John A,

You simply are ignorant to the meaning of my post. It does in no way shape or for represent the meaning by which you proclaim.

Sorry for your misunderstanding, but I'm not sure how to dumb it down to the level that you would understand.

You need to go find Itai and work with him on development of your English language comprehension skills.

You have still failed to provide a single shred of evidence that indicates any of the original inhabitants other than the Israelites still exists in today's society. The last thing you posted proved the Amorites were absorbed into the Jewish population. !!

The United States doesn't have enough money to give its own people medical care. Why not????????????????? We send out aide. That should stop. Most of us would love it, in general. It can't last forever, considering the cost of medical care, high end. Most of us don't care a hoot, really, about people who don't labor for themselves. We do. Some have one job, some have three. Some sleep very little for work. Some work none and live well, but no one really connects or expects them to last long.

My son is named John. His last name starts with A. I guess that is an accident, reading Johna. He would tell me not to read these jokers. He is getting his pilot's license and master scuba diver license and starting his new job in engineering since he just got his degree. And he is really a homebody. Very aggressive. I guess gals and guys are different. I'm not.

University Rector. You want to focus on what's not important. Like children do. They focus on what they want rather than what is important. This is where good parenting and guidance comes in. All the groups that I mentioned (and more) have worshiped/practiced other rituals/beliefs...including the Israelites! If you read a little, before opening your miserable mouth, you'll see that Israel (ancient Israel) has REPEATEDLY, done paganistic things...REPEATEDLY worshiped other gods...and when that got old, they made their own gods to worship. Everyone has strayed from the path. Every group throughout history. Including, and especially Jewish people.

If you want to go a step further, do Jews sacrafice today? Do they live in accordance with all the rules written in the old testament (levitacus,deuteronomy) ? Have customs, rituals, and traditions changed over time? Be honest.

Miriam. You can try and justify wrongdoing all you want. The FACT (which is written in the bible itself) says that Isaac AND Ismael would be blessed and made into many nations. You're saying that because they were there for however long, on/off, that they should have ownership. Christianity is only 2000 years old or so. I guess we should stick to wherever we were in those days as well. Oh wait, we were being persecuted too! Stop whinning and strap up! I'm so tired of hearing people complain about how bad the Jews have had it. This is tyhe world! Satan makes it hard on everybody.

And how did we get this far off topic? Oh, I know...because someone (ACTUAL PRACTICING JEWS!!!) spoke out against Israel. I'm not surprised that we're talking about things that happened thousands of years ago. You guys want to take it as far away from truth and reality so you can try and pass off your nonsense as truth, when it's realy only half truths. Typical tactics. Talk about something else, so that the obvious truth is abandoned. Not this time.

John A\,

Thanks for your help, but I don't think the other readers on the blog need you to interpret what I post. Besides that -you've got it completely wrong.

Most others on the blog, except for maybe Itai, can fully understand what I post.

Have you ever wondered why no one else has a problem with comprehending my posts??

What does that tell you???

I, in no way compare the Jews to the European colonizers- find Itai for clarification.

And I don't have a version of "origins of man in the middle east"! Why do you think that I would push my own personal thoughts or beliefs on others???

I've already posted published statements of claims made by historical scholars and references on the subject. None of it is "my version".

And what is of truly "no importance" is your ridiculous claims that the land of Israel belongs to and extinct group of people!!! Who cares ??? If they no longer exist--the land can't belong to them, right !!!!

Oh, but I almost for got --by one account, this extinct group of people-the Jebusites- if you want to reference the link which you first posted—- “It is unknown what ultimately became of these Jebusites, but it seems logical that they were assimilated by the Israelites”

Is this beyond your comprehension??

WOW !!

So the present day Jebusites are Israelis!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jebusite

That puts the Israelites roots in the land even earlier!!!!!!

Pretty amazing stuff!!!

But enough of your rhetorical nonsense about Israeli crimes. Let the courts of international law decide who is guilty of what. It's not for you me, or anyone in the media or anyone posting on this blog to decide the guilt or innocence of anyone.

johnny

you have not disproven anything posted by me

you evade answers, you ignore facts, you spin, you lie, you falsify history

just like your friend hope who thinks people in israel are blond and blue eyed

give it up, you are beat

G. What do veils or scarves have to do with this blog?

Since you want to talk about them, let's be fair. You talk about an extreme. But if you follow the old testament, and are strict (as millions of Jews/Christians are) you'll see that there are restrictions on the way followers of the religions are to wear.

The next thing is this; One extreme is that wearing clothing to cover the face/body of a woman, so as not to tempt her or others to sin.

Another extreme is that here in the U.S. there is legalized prostitution. It's commonplace for women to walk around in bikini's, even if they're just out running errands. There are billboards in the west that say, literally "Not happy, get a divorce" It seems that here, the breakdown of the family is much more likely than in other places. It seems like values, and such things are replaced for political correctness. I'm sorry, but God intended for the man to be the head of the household. He never said that woman must be less than man.

Someone said "shivalry is dead....and women killed it." You sound like many women I hear speaking, who say these kind of things like you are. It's ok for a man to be in charge when he's protecting you, or providing for you, or helping you to teach a son to be a man, or being an example for your daughter to see what a husband should treat a wife like, but not for him to be the head of the family. These confusions are the beginning of the breakdown of the family structure. All this talk about who should be in charge, and equals, and blah blah blah. If a woman can't be woman enough to let her man be a man, than failure is in the future.

I think husband and wife should discuss things. I ABSOLUTELY think a husband should make descisions based on his own intuition, and his wife's.

I digress. To respond to your post; There are veils over there, and prostitutes and scantily dressed women over here. Two extremes with many normal folks in middle.

Hope,

It's strange how European Jews were always singled out for being dark-eyed and dark-haired.

When did you last wander around the streets of Jerusalem and identify by their appearance who is an Arab, who is an Ashkenazi Jew and who is a Sephardi Jew?

John A,

The Jewish community of 15th century Spain became extinct as did plenty of other Jewish communities such as the thousands in Europe, Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Hebron, Kfar Etzion etc.

Most of them did not evolve into other groups. They simply ceased to exist, "cut off, dead, vanished" -Oxford English Dictionary.

Towns founded by Jews:
Tel-Aviv
Be'er Sheba
Eilat
Petach Tikva
Rishon Lezion
Zichron Ya'akov
Herzlia
etc

Virtually every Palestinian settlement is built on top of an ancient Jewish town.

Miriam

you failed to add the dates of founding these cities, all before the state of israel was established, in other words, israel di not result from the holocaust as john tries to claim

Miriam & University Rector, you have been proven wrong so many times. We don’t need you and your very few friends to accept the truth and admit you’re full of Zionist propaganda.
Miriam your silly example about Tel Aviv being founded by Jews forgets the original port in the area which was founded 9000 years before your beloved Jewish port.

You and your Zionist friends have not answered a single question. So please tell me how long the region has historically been under Jewish sovereignty? 500 years out of the last 9000 perhaps. But when you know you have lost that argument, the mentally lacking Filipe will say that it doesn’t matter how long, because now the Jews have seized the territory and you can turn back time, not even 60 years. But as I said, next time somebody physically seizes your land, please don’t complain. Zionist started the violence and occupation and their future will end with violence and occupation.

Although Zionists make these rules, they will only live with them while they are wining. As soon as these cowards are faced with equal force they will throw their hands in the air and say woe to me the poor persecuted one. But all holy books teach that you will reap what you sow.

Miriam your post about Jews who once lived Spain and are now extinct is another big fat lie and you know it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Spain

There’s a big difference from being expelled to being exterminated. Nice twist on your usual Zionist propaganda.

Jews were persecuted, this is true. But you may also remember that the Jews persecuted the early Christians. All cultures have had persecution and committed persecution; Jews are not exempt from either. Plus you actively persecute Muslims today in an age of supposed enlightenment.

Does the historical Jewish persecution of Christians not count? Does the Jewish persecution of Muslims not count? Did God promise you the land and the right to persecute?

Miriam writes: Virtually every Palestinian settlement is built on top of an ancient Jewish town
--------------------------------
Apart from all of her silly comments, please remember Palestinians dont have settlements, that is an Israeli speciality. And the Zionist new comers mostly build illegal settlements on land internationally recognised as Palestinian. But the twist on the Spanish Jews was classic. Why dont they now claim Spain as part of Israel. In the end it seems that all land is Israeli if one can find evidence of a minority Jewish existence 1000s of years ago.

Away from Miriam, Filipe & University Rector and back to the real world. Many good Jews as depicted in this blog protest to the radical Zionist Israeli abuse of Palestinians. But then the radical Israelis will describe them as self hating Jews or liars etc. And we know who the radicals are don’t we Miriam.
"Woe to me",
" Woe to me",
" I want to bomb Gaza and pervert history".

University rector,

I am reading my own sources..

Amorites; Ancient Semitic people of Mesopotamia, Syria and Palestine..

Amorites originated in Arabia...

http://looklex.com/e.o/amorites.htm

What's your sources?

Filipe & University Rector

Terrestrial reptiles that lived in the Mesozoic Era, such as dinosaurs are extinct.
Tasmanian Wolf (a carnivorous mixture of wombats and kangaroos) are extinct.
Humans evolve by gradual evolution of reproductive...
Cultures-races evolve or get absorbed into other dominant cultures. That does not translate into a genetic extinction as you desperately want us to believe.

So back to Canaan (ancient area of Palestine). The peoples of today's Middle East developed from the Canaanites, Arabs and Jews.

http://looklex.com/e.o/canaan.htm

I'm trying to reduce to bare bones to accommodate simple minds..

CS,

That's correct, you rant and rave and carry on about prostitution, bikinis, scarves, billboards advertising divorce, family values, paganistic rituals... blah...blah...blah.... !!!!

Then you spout off-- " Typical tactics. Talk about something else, so that the obvious truth is abandoned. Not this time." !!!

You are truly amazing !!!!!

And then the next post-- you say -" I digress."

Why is it that you never add anything about the subject of the blog-– you're only attacking others or on an off-topic rhetorical rant about unrelated nonsense!!!! Then you want your rantings on someone else !!!!

You're a real piece of work !!

Further, not done with you..

Yes, the "term" Amorites is EXTINCT. But it's people moved on, evolved, merged with other cultures. You, I, even wacko rector could be genetically descendent from Amorites..What a F-–g scary thing! Arabs and Jews could be genetically descendent of Amorites....

"Culturally and politically, the Amorites would merge with the inhabitants of the lands they took control over....."
http://looklex.com/e.o/amorites.htm

Are you getting it?

John A,

Tel Aviv is not Jaffa.

Do you not understand the definition of extinct?

I mentioned the Jewish community of Spain as an example of a community that was "cut-off, dead, vanished".
The Jews suffered massacres, forced conversion and expulsion resulting in the loss of the community. It vanished.
Just as theas communities vanished, so did many ancient communities.

What does "settlement" mean?
It is not a word invented to describe where Jews live, it is a word that has been used to describe communities all over the world for thousands of years.

john

when did you ever prove anybody wrong?

you were proven wrong so many times, nobody can count

john a

what does jaffa have to do with Tel Aviv?

Tel Aviv was not built on Jaffa

Tel Aviv was founded in 1909, not in Jaffa, i.e. long before the holocaust you gave as the reason for the stste of israel. then why were there jewish cities in israel before?

why john liar?

Q. What does Tel Aviv have to do with original sovereignty of the land.
A. Tele Aviv was founded approximately 100 years ago, while the entire area was under the Turkish Sovereignty of the Ottoman empire. Tel Aviv is a port town, built next door to Yafo (Jaffa) the oldest port in the world. Yafo and all old towns (including Jerusalem) were founded by the natural in habitants and rightful sovereign heirs. These people were not Jewish and this has been repeatedly demonstrated over and over on this blog.

Q. Does Israel have a legitimate right to claim land as a colonial power.
A. If the answer to this is yes, then Israel must live by its own rules and expect a future of violence and occupation.
If the answer is no, then Israel must seed land which is internationally recognized as Palestinian and end what is currently viewed under international law as an illegal Israeli occupation.

Q. Should Israel respect international law.
A. Yes, but if Israel continues to refuses international law then it must pay the consequences of its own actions without calling on help from the international community.

Q. Does Israel currently receive help from the international community.
A. In the way of arms payments and business investment, Israel is donated more money than all third world countries combined.

Q. As all of Israels military equipment is produced in the USA, should the USA be made accountable for the on going Middle East crises.

A. Yes America has demonstrated extreme prejudice by allowing one side to become overwhelmingly powerful.

Q. Does equal power create stability.
A. The cold war demonstrates that when all sides will lose, nobody wants to initiate a war.

Q. Why does America now which to become a more reasonable peace broker.
A. Because Iran advances nuclear weapons and soon both Arabs and Israelis will achieve military parity.

Q. Is America concerned that military parity will be achieved
A. Yes, because it will lose its influence in the area. Therefore America urgently needs to establish a long standing agreement which is in its interests & while it has the chance.

Q. Will anybody support the Zionist occupation in fifty years time, when oil runs out in the middle east.
A. No

Q. Would it not be more prudent for Israel to seek a mutually beneficial peace plan now, before the wheel of history turns against their favour.
A. Yes.

Q. Do the radicle Zionists and their belligerent abuse of Palestinian rights have a long term chance of establishing a greater Israel.
A. They trust in their God, without observing one lesson from history.

Q. Are the radicle Zionists Israels biggest threat to peace and stability.
A. Without doubt.

Hope,

As you previously mentioned, and was also mentioned in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jebusite- "“It is unknown what ultimately became of these Jebusites, but it seems logical that they were assimilated by the Israelites”.

In the most simplistic of terms, this means, as a society and culture, they no longer exist, i. e. extinct. But what may be left if them are the modern day Israelites.

SO, the bottom line is this-- the Israelites are the earliest inhabitants of the land of Judea that still exists. There is no proof to the contrary.

There is, however, documented proof that the Arabs began to migrate to the land in the 7th century with the invention of Islam.

John A,

What does Jaffa have to do with Tel Aviv? Are you confused again??

Please refer to Google Earth for clarification.

John A,

You said–" In the end it seems that all land is Israeli if one can find evidence of a minority Jewish existence 1000s of years ago."

Isn't that what the entire Palestinian Arab whinefest is all about??

They claim the land is theirs because they've been living there, isn't that the case they put forth?

Isn't that the only case they put forth??

But since the historical facts actually place the Israelites in the land of Judea millenia before the Arabs were present, that claim, according to you, is not sufficient, because you believe they were only minority!

How odd !!! Especially since those who were the "majority' have either died out or been assimilated into the Israelite society.

Doesn't that make them the only living descendants of the original inhabitants??

Please explain-why do you think that people who migrated to the land 2500 years later than the Israelites have a more valid claim to the land??? Because there are more of them?? Because they are the majority??

Filipe writes: In the most simplistic of terms, this means, as a society and culture, they no longer exist,.
-------------------------------–
Naturally these are only Filipes simplistic terms and they have no relevance to evolution or the fact that Palestine has always been populated. The aboriginal inhabitants certainly have no relation to the overwhelming Israeli population who are Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe.

The entire concept of Israel is founded on religious apartheid.

When Jews practiced Judaism under the ancient rule of Canaan, they were Canaan Jews.
When Jews practiced Judaism under Egyptian rule they were Egyptian.
Whist under Ottoman rule they were Ottoman.
For example American Jews are American, not Israeli.
Russian Jews are Russian not Israeli.
But magically if you practice Judaism in the Middle East the land becomes Israeli, even if the overwhelming majority of indigenous people were never Jewish.
This is simple religious apartheid and it is extremely divisive and wrong

John A,

You are very confused!

Present day Israel was founded by international law and recognition of the UN and the member nations as a Jewish State. I'm sorry you seem to have a problem with that.

And you are correct, Jews are a race, not a nationality.

Where do you get the concept that practicing Judaism in the middle east magically turns the land Israeli?? Is this something else you conceived in your dreams?

But I hardly think there is anything magical about the The Land of Israel becoming Israeli. It's been known as The land of Israel, The Kingdom of Israel, Israel, or Judea for over 3 millenia. The Jews have lived there the entire time. It is of no importance to anyone, except maybe you, what ethnic group was in control, ruled the land, was in majority.....blah...blah....blah....!

Nothing changes the fact that the Jews are only ethnic group of people who still exist today who lived there continuously for the past 3 millenia.

The new kids on the block refused to accept the land that was given to them- just not smart enough to figure it out apparently. So, far they've managed show nothing but utter failure in their ability to self govern or develop a productive and prosperous society.

My point exactly John A. Belief is not about a country or its rules, harsh or not. Belief survives. Political systems do not. Thank goodness probably. God is not about taxes and running a country. Some even have have their preachers or clerics running countries and punishing people, not political people who just try to follow rules of the constitutions or whatever documents. It's obvious that the two things are two different things. We ask for guidance in everything, but they are two different things, like land and water.

Wrong again Filipe. But this is not surprising.

You say It’s been known as The land of Israel, The Kingdom of Israel, Israel, or Judea for over 3 millenia.

This is totally false. What would be accurate is to say for a short period of time and over 3 millennia ago the land was known as Judea. This is very different from pretending it has always been known as Judea or the Kingdom of Israel.

Historical fact (something Filipe is very light on)

Judea was ruled by the Kingdom of Judah, a client kingdom of Persia[1], and later the Seleucid dynasty of Greece who were eventually expelled from the region by Judas Maccabeus. The Maccabean family established the Hasmonean dynasty of Kings who ruled in Judea for over a century. [2]

Interesting one century in over 9000 years. And the rule was before Christ. Before and since this land was ruled by peoples who have now evolved into Arabs. Or perhaps Filipes theory is correct ie there is no proof that the people of the middle east have evolved into Arabs hahaha

G. Have you still not calculated an answer to a simple question yet? Let me ask again; WHAT DO VEILS HAVE TO DO WITH THIS BLOG?
WHY DO YOU TALK ABOUT OFF TOPIC, NEGATIVE, NONSENSE INSTEAD OF STICKING TO THE SUBJECT? WHY WHEN ANY PROGRESS IS MADE BETWEEN MUSLIMS AND jEWS DO YOU START TALKING ABOUT NEGATIVE THINGS? WHY IS IT THAT WHEN ANY MUSLIM NATION HAS IT'S VOICE HEARD, OR INVESTIGATIONS INTO ISRAEL'S CONDUCT ARE LAUNCHED, DO YOU MAKE SWEEPING RACIST, NEGATIVE STATEMENTS?

John A -

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

Your attempts to rewrite history are getting you nowhere fast. Maybe you should go back to whining about circumcision and foreskin; at least that was entertaining. With every lie you tell your case gets weaker and weaker. You desperately want to believe the lie that someone stole your land. You can't go to court to prove it because you know you don't have a case. Therefore, you support terrorism to try to kill Israeli civilians so you can steal their land. How many times have you tried to steal this land in the past 60+ years? How has that worked out for you?

The Palestinians have become so reviled that Jordan is revoking Palestinian citizenship en masse for fear that they could get stuck with them permanently. Despite all your whining about how badly Israel treats the Palestinians, they have more rights and freedom in Israel than they have in neighboring Muslim countries. What does that tell you about the true nature of the Palestinians? The Palestinians are the illegal occupiers of Israeli land, just a bunch of violent squatters who never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

And yes, CS, it's all a big conspiracy full of haters and racists who don't agree with you who have travelled back in time to change history in favor of the Jews so the recently arrived Arab and Muslim invaders can't claim the land is theirs. LOL

John A,

Don't you just hate it when no one and history both don't agree with you !!!!!

But it's really interesting that you want to proceed to rattle off all of the different ethnic groups who came and went over the course of the past 3 millenia.

But fact is fact-those ethnic groups came and went. The Jews have been there throughout history.

But since you prefer to cite the chronology of the ruling ethnic groups--don't leave out the Muslims who came in 638AD.

But since you neglected to do so-I'll post the link which from which you took your reference

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea

And it is really of no consequence who ruled over the land in Biblical times.

Judea– Jews lived in Judea. The word Jew in Portuguese is Judeu! Do you see any connection there???

Nothing changes the fact that the Jews are only ethnic group of people who still exist today who lived there continuously for the past 3 millenia.

The new kids on the block refused to accept the land that was given to them— just not smart enough to figure it out apparently. So, far they’ve managed show nothing but utter failure in their ability to self govern or develop a productive and prosperous society.

John A,

There is no port in Tel Aviv.
As mentioned many times on this blog, most 'old towns' in Israel were inhabited by Jews long before any Arabs arrived in the region.

Israel is not a colonial power.
In 1967, Israel had no intention of territorial expansion. Extra territory was won suprisingly and as a result of a defensive war forced upon her by countries themselves hoping for territorial expansion resulting from Israel's annihilation.

Israel does respect international law. Anyone claiming otherwise is twisting their interpretation of the law to fit their political agenda.
Israel is far from perfect as is every democracy with an accountable government.

Israel does not receive more donations than all the third world countries combined.
She recieves aid, mostly from the US, the majority of which is repaid , largely in the form of aid back into the US. Subsequently, she recieves less "donated aid" than any of her non-democratic surrounding neighbours.

Much of Israel's military equipment is Israeli invented and made. If the US was to supply it all, why did the UK recently announce a form of arms embargo?
The US, UK and many other countries actually import Israeli military equipment and technology. Which country do you think received most visits at the recent aviation fair?

The US has always been a peace broker. That's nothing new.

The US is scared of losing her influence in the Middle East that's why they are appeasing the Arabs and Iran.

Israel/ The Jews have accepted every UN proposed and US brokered Peace Plan since 1917 and before. The Arabs have rejected them all.

Not all Zionists believe in God.
Not all "settlers" are religious.

Israel's population ( ie.citizens) is 76-83% Jewish. Over half are Sephardi with no connection to Europe. 67% of the Jewish population is Israeli born. 20% of the population is not Jewish.
Not an overwhelmingly Eastern European born population !!!!!!

John A,

To those who cared anything about Israel and Judea for those three millenia, it was Eretz Yisrael, ie The Land of Israel, and also refered to as Judea and Samaria.

Historical facts you refer to are supplied by historians who research political power and not the centrality and importance of those areas to the Jewish people, including the Jewish communities that continually lived there.

John A,

You said-"Interesting one century in over 9000 years. And the rule was before Christ. Before and since this land was ruled by peoples who have now evolved into Arabs. Or perhaps Filipes theory is correct ie there is no proof that the people of the middle east have evolved into Arabs hahaha"

***********************************************************************
Please explain how one evolves into an Arab ??? That's a pretty amusing concept!!!

It's pretty straight forward see how one can evolve from the original Tribes of Arabia. But how is it can one go the other way??

Isn't that like a Gentile evolving into a Jew ??

Someone may choose to call themselves a Jew because they choose to follow Judaism.

Someone may call themselves an Arab because they speak Arabic or follow Arabic customs.

But that bottom line is, a true Jew is a descendant of one of the Tribes of Israel. As well, a true Arab is a descendant of the Tribes of Arabia.

You can't evolve into being an Arab.

Sorry, You loose again !!!

The Jews have always been in the Land of Israel, Judea, continuously for over 3 millenia.

But again. let me clarify for you, since you such an extremely short memory span.

I have no theories on this subject- I simply read publications of historical context. But I don't recall ever having read anything which claims that any group of people "evolved into Arabs", as you so proclaim.

Even your most favorite resource fails to identify Arabs in the Judea prior to the Jews--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab

John A

Who does California belong to?

The Los Angeles coastal area was first settled by the Tongva (or Gabrieleños) and Chumash Native American tribes thousands of years ago. The first Europeans arrived in 1542 in an expedition organized by the viceroy of New Spain and commanded by Juan Rodríguez Cabrillo, a Portuguese-born explorer who claimed the area of southern California for the Spanish Empire. However, he continued with his voyage up the coast and did not establish a settlement.[6] The next contact would not come until 227 years later, when Gaspar de Portolà, along with Franciscan missionary Juan Crespí, reached the present site of Los Angeles on August 2, 1769. Crespí noted that the site had the potential to be developed into a large settlement.[7]

In 1771, Franciscan friar Junípero Serra built the Mission San Gabriel Arcangel near Whittier Narrows, in what is now called San Gabriel Valley.[8] In 1777, the new governor of California, Felipe de Neve, recommended to Antonio María de Bucareli y Ursúa, viceroy of New Spain, that the site noted by Juan Crespí be developed into a pueblo. The town was officially founded on September 4, 1781, by a group of forty-four settlers known as "Los Pobladores". Tradition has it that on this day they were escorted by four Spanish colonial soldiers, two priests from the Mission and Governor de Neve. The town was named El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río de Porciúncula (The Town of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels on the Porciúncula River).[9] These pueblo settlers came from the common Hispanic culture that had emerged in northern Mexico among a racially mixed society. Two-thirds of the settlers were mestizo or mulatto, and therefore, had African and Indian ancestry. More importantly, they were intermarrying.[10] The settlement remained a small ranch town for decades, but by 1820 the population had increased to about 650 residents.[11] Today, the pueblo is commemorated in the historic district of Los Angeles Pueblo Plaza and Olvera Street, the oldest part of Los Angeles.[12]

New Spain achieved its independence from the Spanish Empire in 1821, and the pueblo continued as a part of Mexico. During Mexican rule, Governor Pío Pico, made Los Angeles Alta California's regional capital. Mexican rule ended during the Mexican–American War: Americans took control from the Californios after a series of battles, culminating with the signing

The Middle East is disturbing. We have clerics and thugs together, like in the Middle East in Iran, killing or imprisoning people. Very cruel, un God like people, ruling. Then we have no God places, like North Korea, who want no part of God in general. Who is the worst? No idea. The results are about the same. Equal I guess.

I won't even go into who CA belongs to. We all know that. There are always growing pains. The U.S. finds all these places sad, we are God people in general, and especially for females, Struggles and hard work are nothing new here for most of us. But, the world is changing. I am wondering whether to care any more. As an American. We have two helpful places, England and Israel, and ourselves. Aide to other places – why? Our people need health care big time. We are suppose to be a rich country? I'd like to see it here.

In this economic crisis, I'd like to see our government focus on two issues – paying back the national debt, balancing the budget, and health care for everyone. Those are what I care about. Other things, or places, can sit it out.

No one, or very few, in the U.S. think Hitler is good. Guess that is why we support Israel a lot. We all know, as adults, that evil exists. We saw it on 9/11 when our buildings were blown down and janitors and business people were killed without warning. In the U.S., we are a little aggressive, but we believe in fair warning it seems to me. The other stuff seems chickens, some say girly though I am a girl and find that offensive. We also saw evil in the holocust. There are old, old black and white films before tricker films existed. So we are pretty convinced. We saw evil again when we understood slavery. The U.S. has it's struggles. I guess anything that doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. I don't know – just reading. I am sick though of sending foreign aide when my own neighbors need medical care. I'd stop it all except England and Israel.

The next politician who goes there, will get my vote.

miriam writes July 22nd, 2009 1947 GMT
John A,
There is no port in Tel Aviv.
As mentioned many times on this blog, most ‘old towns’ in Israel were inhabited by Jews long before any Arabs arrived in the region.
---------------------------------

If you want to know how uneducated and false Miriam and her Zionist friends are, please read this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa

john

where does it say there is a port in tel aviv in your link?

maybe you should start reading before posting?

and why don't you whine and complain about the Arab separation walls present in many Arab countries? because the arabs can, and the jews can't?

John A Jebusite,

I fail to read anywhere in you r posted where -

1) there were Arabs in Jaffa be fore the Jews or,
2) There is a port in Tel Aviv !

So once again-what's your point?? Are you simply bored today ?? Nothing of relevance to add to the discussion?

CNN Moderator,

The post above--Filipe July 23rd, 2009 2137 GMT -–was NOT submitted by me!!!! Someone else has made this post under my name. Do you not verify names with the Email addresses when submissions are made ??? I suspect the post above–University Rector July 23rd, 2009 2141 GMT -– was made by the same impostor as well. I request you remove the false post made in my name and take action to ban the impostor who has made such vile a vile attempt to discredit my character!

I neve wrote :

"July 23rd, 2009 2141 GMT

Im with you Filipe"

somebody, used my name

or john

filipe

it is john A who realized that we keep exposing his lies that uses our names

It seems when Filipe and University Rector have completely lost the argument, they proceed to completely lose the plot. Or are their latest meaningless rants a tactic to distract from their failure to demonstrate any truth in their words.

John A,

What argument? I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm only presented documented facts.

And when I ask questions of you-you fail to respond.

So how is it you think I'm losing an argument??

After all, if you think this is some kind of win /loose situation-- the one who fails to answer the question is obviously the one who looses!!

Sorry about your luck-Don't you just hate it when that happens ??

John A,

What argument? I’m not arguing with anyone. I’m only presented documented facts.

And when I ask questions of you—you fail to respond.

So how is it you think I’m losing an argument??

After all, if you think this is some kind of win /loose situation—— the one who fails to answer the question is obviously the one who looses!!

Sorry about your luck—Don’t you just hate it when that happens ??

I don't even see the Gaza guys and gals trying to cash in on the ME oil wealth? Why not? If they need electricity and food, where do they think it will appear from? The oil will run out sooner or later though, of course, but by then the industries should be built.

university rector
July 17th, 2009 1809 GMT
Palestinians do not hate jews?

actualy i outed my self many times as one with jewish blood!
and i have palestinian fiends and i cant feel theyr hate but theyr friendship
this maybe answers your question

but fairly i have also to say i and my family did not go to palestine to robb the land of the farmers which did life there for long time before jewsh terrorist groups did illegaly immigrate on theyr land to kill them and theyr goats

my family did suffer a lot in the time where the nazis did dominate the bad news of cruelity and in opposide to the jews from all over europe which had not to suffer as much under the hitler regime, my family did learn that war pain torture killing occupation oppression is a bad and wrong way! maybe thats why my family did not use the hitler methods to get a mythic holy land.. i am not a religious fanatic extremist and dont beliefe in holy what ever! but i see as every notmal human that the fanatic religious extremists in israel robbing mythical holy and promised land are nothing else then nazis on a wrong way against peace and against humans

in opposide to the jews which did illegaly imigrate to palestine from spain france and all the other places where they had not to suffer under hitler my family did learn what evil is and we all know the way of israelis today is nothing else then evil fascism and rascism!

maybe you missunderstod something ... palestinians dont have problems with jews i know that throug dayly life
but they have a problem with israelians which came to robb theyr land calling them subanimal idiots or apes from the trees and if israelians act arogante as they do it is not any kind of miracle if they have problems with israelians

i know there are some israelians which can coexist with arabs and palestinians and i know some israelians are willing to do so
i respect them well as also palestinians accept and respect them
but a lot of israelians still life in the time of hagana, in the time of organized terrorism and they still think they are superior "arians" and more worth then "subanimals"
such a ideology is exactly the same as the ideology of hitler
and today who thinks to bomb hitler and his nazis was wrong? who thinks that it was wrong to fight against such cruel fascists?
no one who is a littlebit normal in his head
and if such thing happen again with other people at a other place, who thinks that in nowtime such fascism should be accepted
no one who is a minimal bit normal in his head
so why should palestinians not fight against thoese who threat them since 60 years why they should not fight against who is occupieing theyr land and calling them subanimal?
only because some idiots are defending fascism?
no way ... everyone should stand up against fascism everywhere and this is not excluding israel

proud americans should keep theyr money and get some healthcare
the USA did fight against the nazis against fascism and they did what everyone should do still today and everywhere
sadly the USA got undermined by some idiots and they changed the mind and spirit to fund now fascism in the middle east on the back of the own taxpayers healthcare

university rector,

It's obvious, he hates to be wrong so much he can't see straight, then he resorts to name calling, then it's whining and slobbering and crying time. And then when we he still gets spanked, he plays more childish games like making posts using someone else's screen name.

Reminds of the guy impersonating a professor that used to post on this blog You know, spoke 5 languages, one day he had Albanian grandparents and the next day he said he never said that, never had any Eastern European ancestors and blah....blah.... blah.... Now that was another sad case also !!! HAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

Maybe the "A" in John A stands for Albanian !!!!! What do you think??

itai

more of your lies

you do not even know that the correct term is israeli, not israelian, so much for your jewish blood

and understand once and for all, there were jews living in israel before the holocaust, in thriving jewish cities, like tel aviv, petah tikva, herzlia, ramat gan and many more. israel is the land of the jewish people, and its existence is not because of the holocaust.

and saying that palestinaians do not hate jews is another lie. i direct your attaention to the hamas charter, as i have many times before, where it is stated that all jews, wherever they are, must be killed. this has nothing to do with israel, your friends simply hate jews, whether in israel or anywhere else.

now disprove me!!!!!!!!

I think John A has completely lost it, posting completely irrelevant links in an effort to change the subject because his lies are being exposed left and right. One side of the debate is posting verifiable facts and the other is just calling names and posting random gibberish. I think this is indicative of the dispute at the highest levels between the Israelis and the Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians. One side uses logic and facts and the other side calls them apes and pigs and resorts to outright lies and falsified history.

Itai,

You are too funny!!!

You say "palestinians dont have problems with jews i know that throug dayly life" !!

Really--how ??? You don't live there !!! How can you know if you don't live there !!!!

But please explain why you think it is OK for the Palestinians to use violence against the Israeli civilians??? They certainly don't "resist" against the Israeli military--they only direct their violent efforts against civilians!

I guess you think this is OK ???

All I know, as facts, and I try to go there when I can, is that Europe is sending Gaza free fuel and food and stuff. I am not there, but read that. Why? The Middle East is full of oil, for another decade or so, and rich in it. Everyone knows we, countries with some food, can't feed the billions scratching out tiny farms and milking camels in small numbers. Health care has become the main issue. But the world has to become industrialized and educated to expand and to care for the poor people. People need to work. States are cutting budgets. Some by nearly half. I think it will have to go there for the needy. I, personally, don't need a private hospital room in a hospital. What happended to "wards." Wouldn' t that be a lot cheaper?

The U.S. and Israel are allies. The Middle East has attacked the U.S. – 9/11. Blowing down building with janitors and business people changed everything. We are not so stupid now. It's hard for us to see opinated, limited people, but we are going there. As a female, you'd have to beat me hard to get me to wear a burka. No offense. I love the Great Pyramids. I'd like to party under them and make friends. Always wanted that. Will never go there.

I'm in the U.S. The U.S. has some big problems, mostly the economy and how to give everyone great health care in this country, European, African, Mexican, ME, or whoever. So-so is not an option. So, I would suspend all foreign aide at this time, do battle places that have to be done, and concentrate on our own people. There are a lot of other countries out there willing to send Gaza or whoever, free electricity or the guys can work. Right now, we are in a tight place. We have minorities who need real help. And we need security against people who blow stuff up, as silly and mean as that sounds – they must really exist. Most of us were just shocked, but apparently bad people Really do exist. Shameful.

G.

Why should the guys in Gaza work??? They get all the stuff they need for free! If they worked-no one would send them any more free stuff !!

See, they were actually working and earning a living, then there wouldn't be a need for UNRWA any longer. So then the 92,000 Palestinians employed by UNRWA would be unemployed!

So, you see, it really makes no sense for them to become contributors to a prosperous society !

It's much easier to do nothing and complain about the quality and quantity of the free stuff that your given!

Well Planet Earth is tough. No one can deny it. Imagine a small place(like Gaza) that is use to getting free stuff, doesn't ask for a lot, and the world is happy. Then some exremists rush in, threaten and kill, imprision, whatever, use human shields. Then, they start shooting at the place that has been giving away the free stuff. Later, the people giving out free stuff start to shoot back. No one is happy. In the end, it's not about free stuff or terror, it's about choice. Without getting complicated, these places either learn that not everything is simple and so black and white, or they fuss. Forever. They have been doing it awhile so most of us are tired of hearing it.

Very nice site!