Inside the Middle East
September 27, 2010
Posted: 1953 GMT

Hamas political leader vows to continue fight with Israel

CNN's Nic Robertson travelled to Damascus this past weekend  for a sit-down interview with Hamas leader-in-exile Khaled Meshaal.  You can watch portions of the interview here and here or read the transcript after the jump.

Among other things Meshaal talks about why he believes why the current negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians are a "trick" that will fail, why he thinks Hamas is justified staging attacks against Israelis,  and comments on the status of captured Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, captured by Hamas and other Gaza based militants groups in a 2006 cross-border raid.

Transcript starts here:

Nic Robertson:

So when president Obama at the UNGA says next year we could have a Palestinian state announced is that unrealistic..

Khaled Meshaal:

Is he the only US president who promised an independent Palestinian state? For years now and every time an US President comes in, every president and in his first term promises the Palestinians and the Arabs that he will work on making sure a Palestinian state will be formed in 2 or 4 years at the max and the outcome is always the same. Their presidential term is over and nothing happens, actually instead we get the very opposite. The Palestinian cause gets diminished and the Israeli leaders immerse themselves in building settlements changing the land’s identity, killing, arresting our people and biting off more of our Palestinian land. These are promises made for the US own domestic consumption and they do nothing but selling the Palestinians and the Arabs free and empty slogans so that they can have the Arab official policies be part of the American policy plan and this way, they can assist them with the other main issues like Iraq and Afghanistan. This is a trick that no one believes in anymore because if anyone wants to talk about a true Palestinian state, they need to provide the realistic means to create a Palestinian statehood. In order to do so, there should be a strong international determination led by the United States that will force Israel to withdraw to the 1967 borders including East Jerusalem and make the Israelis acknowledge the right of return and the Palestinian rights. This is the only gateway to the true solution. So when an American president comes in and surrenders himself to the Israeli arrogance and refusal to stop the building of settlements and when the US president doesn’t speak clearly on the issue of East Jerusalem and the Palestinians rights to have East Jerusalem as their capital, their right of returns and the 1967 borders, all these promises end up having no value whatsoever.

Nic Robertson:

If Fatah made an agreement right now that accepted the 1967 borders and east Jerusalem as a capital would you accept that .. and support that if that’s the agreement Fatah gets..

Khaled Meshaal:

Look we do have a national public consensus since the in the result of the national accordance agreement in 2006 that any negotiation taking place must be first based on the rights of the Palestinian people who all factions already agreed upon as a joint political agenda back in 2006 and these are the 1967 borders, East Jerusalem as its capital, the right of return, the dismantling of the settlements and total sovereignty on the ground and therefore we know that the Palestinian negotiator must commit to these rights then the results of the negotiations must be presented to the Palestinian people inside the territories and abroad for a referendum or let a newly elected Palestinian national council vote on it. This is the mechanism that we agreed upon and we are committed to these agreements for four years now. This is our first step but the problem that we are facing today is that Israel rejects all of this and the international community doesn’t pressure Israel so they can accept our rights. The united states and despite the fact that they keep talking about a Palestinian state doesn’t want to do anything to pressure Israel to accept anything. Can you see the painful contradiction in terms? The international community demands the Palestinians and the Arabs to accept a compromise based on the 1967 borders. The Arabs and the Palestinians agreed. But Israel rejected that after we said yes. So instead, the international community started asking us for more instead of forcing the Israelis, the arrogant side who didn’t accept the compromise and they started asking us for more compromises and they want to pressure the Palestinians and the Arabs so we can give up more of our rights. So instead of acknowledging that everyone should accept a compromise based on the 1967 borders, they want us to compromise even more in regards to the borders, in regards to east Jerusalem, the settlements, the rights of returns. Can you see the true injustice, the prejudice against us? This is bias and hypocrisy that only serves Israel and therefore it will never help in getting the negotiations to succeed and will not lead in my opinion for a true Palestinian state. And I say that to you, this maybe very excruciating for the Palestinian people but the international community must realize that the Palestinian moment may get to that moment when they know that the policies of the international community will not bring them justice and will not force the Israelis to respect the borders, the Palestinian people will seek its rights on their own and let the whole world deal with the consequences of that Palestinian decision and I can tell you that the Palestinian people are heading into that direction.

Nic Robertson:

What is Hamas’s strategy to bring about a situation where the international community to put pressure on Israel to change it’s position which is what you want.. your strategy so far seems to be shooting four Israeli settlers a few weeks ago .. doesn’t that isolate you from the international community rather than win their support?

Khaled Meshaal:

Do you mean that right before the killing of the settlers in the west bank, was the American and western policy any better and helping the Palestinian people and were there any true pressures on Israel whatsoever? Unfortunately not. To begin with, the Palestinian resistance is a natural way of expressing our way of confronting the Israeli occupation on one end and also from another perspective is a Palestinian reaction for that general feelings that the Palestinians and the Arabs have that relying on the pressure of the international community is a wrong and useless option because we all know that the international community isn’t capable or willing to force Israel to go for the true peace option in the west bank and this is why we rely on the option of the resistance because it is our legitimate right of defending our people and confront the occupation.

Hamas is practicing its legitimate right; we are defending our own people. Why does the international community get upset when we kill illegal settlers on our land? The international community considers the lands of the west bank and the Gaza district an occupied land and its occupation is illegal based on the international law and this is the international concept of occupation and since the building of settlements in the west bank is illegal therefore it is clear that the presence of the settlers in the west bank is illegal so they get upset when the Israeli soldiers and the settlers must get out of the west bank. The blame cannot put on the Palestinian resistance when we are defending our own people. You know that there is a half million settlers in the west bank and east Jerusalem, they are heavily armed, they kill the Palestinians kids, they are burning the olive trees, they violate the land, they desecrate the sanctities. Theses settlers are behind every violation and we are only defending our people by confronting the Israeli killings and the constant violations whether carried out by the soldiers or by the settlers. Yes, it is true that we are so keen on managing and having a balanced relationship with everyone in the international community in Europe, including the United States but managing and having these relationships with anyone in the international community will never be at the expenses of the rights of the Palestinian people and our people’s rights in determining its destiny in choosing the resistance option against the occupation and the settlers.

Nic Robertson:

What you are saying is your strategy is to continue to shoot and to kill..

Khaled Meshaal:

No. Hamas’ strategy is the following. Holding on to the national rights of the Palestinian people. Resisting the occupation since the resistance is a legitimate right just like every country around the world confronted their occupiers in the name of the resistance just like the American people who fought the British occupation, waging their independence war. Hamas’ strategy relies on reaching a way of determining our own destiny, taking back our land, defending our people against the occupation and the settlements and then working on establishing a true Palestinian state that will have true sovereignty. This is Hamas’ strategy and at the same time, we will continue dealing with the Arab and Islamic worlds and the international community and all the effective key players and demand them to stand by the Palestinian right and the just Palestinian cause. We just want them to be fair to us and we tell the international community very clearly and openly that you have two options ahead of you. Either you pressure Israel to withdraw from the Palestinian land to the 1967 borders and if you fail to do so, the Palestinian people will have one option and that is the resistance. We want the final product no matter what the way will be. If the Palestinians can't be spared the sacrifices through an international determination to pressure the Israelis to withdraw, we will welcome that for sure. But if the international community stands in silence and do nothing while the Palestinian people suffer, while they get killed, and they get oppressed. Right then, no one can ask us to stand by and don’t use our basic right to defend ourselves. The international community has the responsibility of its decisions and we want the easiest way to obtain our rights. If we can get that by peace, ahlan wa sahlan, but we cannot have peace and occupation. This is worthless. We want our rights and if we can only get them by the means of the resistance, this is our legitimate right and duty and no one can blame us. The true blame fall on the occupation, and those who defend and lie defending the occupation.

Nic Robertson:

Don’t you need to be realistic Israel is far militarily stronger than Hamas how can you convince international community to support you and pressure Israel .. Israel can outfight you..

Khaled Meshaal:

How did the Vietnamese people force you to withdraw from their lands? How did the colonial British forces withdraw from the United States and many other places around the world in defeat? How did people around the world fought for their freedom? How did the French stood defiant facing Hitler? How and how and how? This is a general rule of law. The people who get occupied , resist their occupiers. They don’t have to be stronger than their occupiers but because they have a noble cause. They have the right in facing the injustice of their occupiers. These people will end up winning their freedom even if they were weaker on the military level when they face the occupation. This is a basic human right that everyone knows. Therefore we rely on this. The Israeli occupation is unjust and illegal. We are the people of the land. We have a legitimate and just cause and therefore we will win no matter what. The proof was shown inside Palestine. Why did Sharon withdraw from Gaza? Why did the Israelis withdraw from Lebanon? Israel is stronger than Hamas, mightier than Hezbollah but they had to retreat. Why did the 2006 war against Lebanon fail? Why did the 2008-2009 war against Gaza also fail despite the fact that Israel is stronger than us. Power is not the only answer in ending battles. I believe that today and after all its wars that Bush got the US involved in, America finally realized that power cannot resolve anything in the battlefields and managing the conflicts among the people and the nations. There are various other angles that need to be considered and I say yes if the international community doesn’t realize that. And here I don’t only say Hamas but the whole Palestinian people will win in this just war, if the International community isn’t convinced that we will finally win, in 5 years from now, we will meet again and there will be a new conviction that the international community will have and the United States and the international community will finally realize that Israel is nothing but a political and a moral burden on their shoulder and that the halo of that Israeli superpower in the region no longer exists. They proved to be incompetent in all of their wars, in the recent years and in the coming ones, God willing.

Khalid Mashal said the following about captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit being held by Hamas in the Gaza Strip:

Of course his health situation is much better than that of the 8000 Palestinian prisoners who are suffering in Israeli jails. By the way, yesterday there was a general strike in the Israeli enemy prisons and there is an anger raging the Palestinian street in the West Bank, Gaza and abroad because of the repulsive and harsh treatment of our Palestinian prisoners by the Israeli occupation. But when it comes to Gilad Shalit, I can assure you that we treat him VERY well based on our principles and our religious doctrines. Despite the fact that he is not a civilian, he is a soldier that we captured in a battle and not like the thousands of Palestinian civilians who were kidnapped by the Israelis, among them ministers, national council members, scholars, political figures and many others. But despite everything, we say that when it comes to Gilad Shalit, we are ready to hand him back over to his family but we demand that Netanyahu releases in exchange the numbers and the names that we previously demanded so we can release our men and women from Israeli prisons.

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Filed under: Hamas •Israel •Jerusalem •Palestinians •U.S.

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Ariely   September 28th, 2010 12:23 pm ET

Hello media- It is your duty to tell the people what is Hamas charter.
In the 21 century Hamas and similar movments should be outlowed, their leaders in jailes and not interviewd!

: Hamas charter

*Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions – Islam, Christianity and Judaism – to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam

*"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it

*"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

*"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews

Francesca   September 28th, 2010 2:44 pm ET

Ariely, I note that you have chosen to express the Hamas charter with your words, "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it" hahahahaha.

Your translation is as bad as "wipe Israel of the map" in contrast to the real Iranian translation i.e. "Zionists fall from the page of history".

The trouble with Zionists is they always twist other peoples words and inject as much hate as possible.

Your version of the Hamas charter simply demonstrates your vile hatred and your ignorance towards Israels neighbors. Again this demonstrates how Zionists are the real problem.

Why don't you burn a Qur'an? Thats a more fitting way for you to express your willingness to accept differences between peoples. Or you could just have some more aid workers killed or continue to bomb Palestinian families with phospherus bombs.

Ariely whatever wild claim you want to make is fine with me, but please dont claim to be a man. That would be one falsehood too far!

University Rector   September 28th, 2010 4:01 pm ET

Who are the real terrorists?Lets have an honest answer!

Wednesday, the United Nations' Human Rights Council concluded the Israeli forces committed serious violations of international law in the mid-sea flotilla interception.

The 56-page report described the circumstances of the deaths of "at least six of the passengers" as being "consistent with ... an arbitrary and summary execution."

Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal has every right to resist Israeli state terror.

Anonymous Friend   September 28th, 2010 9:38 pm ET

'Israel's PM Benjamin Netanyahu has urged the Palestinians to continue peace talks despite an end to Israel's ban on West Bank settlement-building.'

Presumably, so they'll be distracted and won't notice all the settlements going up on the same land they are supposed to be negotiating over...

Anonymous Friend   September 28th, 2010 9:38 pm ET

"Israel's PM Benjamin Netanyahu has urged the Palestinians to continue peace talks despite an end to Israel's ban on West Bank settlement-building."

the level of cynicism evident in Mr Netanyahu's request says it all. sick.

Robert   September 28th, 2010 9:39 pm ET

How predictable. How long are we supposed to be fooled by all of this pantomime? Do the sponsers of the talks actually expect them to continue after building starts?
Just wait a few days and there will be a report of a Palestinian attack thwarted by Israel. Happens every single time.

Darren   September 28th, 2010 9:40 pm ET

What you will do when someone evacuate you from your home in US or UK and construct his home after destroying your? Strange double standard of western media and leaders!
There is impossible peaceful solution if you accept the right of israel self defense but not accepting the right of Palestinian to live at their land. I agree hamas should not be supported but what israel did before hamas was in power. As long as western countries support israel, there will no progress n the talks.

Bruce   September 28th, 2010 9:41 pm ET

There is no hope for Middle East peace until the Israeli government are told to obey international law or face the consequences.

Keith   September 28th, 2010 9:54 pm ET

NATO uses armed drones and helicopters in Pakistan with no formal agreement with Islamabad. Rebels will shoot down aircraft after aircraft for violating territory. The Americans only understand casualty lists.

Tommy   September 28th, 2010 9:56 pm ET

Seems like a real missed opportunity by Israel to show it is willing to take a courageous next step in the peace talks. I appreciate that the issues are complicated, but how can the Israelis expect concessions from the other side when it adopts this sort of a stance? The suicide bombings and missiles launched into Israel have largely stopped, there is no compelling need to build in the West Bank, and the only way peace will ever be achieved is through concessions on both sides.

Why is Mr. Netanyahu so afraid to take a step forward that could lead to a truly historic outcome?

Sasha   September 28th, 2010 9:57 pm ET

The problem in getting a deal between Israel and the PA is not the 95% who would be happy with a peace deal that would stop the bombing/rockets attacks etc etc etc
But 5% Israelis would cheerfully kill their own leaders for daring to sign a peace treaty with the 'enemy'

Patrick   September 28th, 2010 9:59 pm ET

The Israeli settlers will build more houses on disputed land.
The Palestinians will protest by throwing stones at the settlers.
The Israeli's will then shoot the Palestinians "in self defence".
Palestinians will then fire rockets into Israel.
Israeli Army will then send in helicopter gun ships & fighter/bombers to destroy the rocket bases.
Palestinian civilians will get killed in the cross fire.
Everyone will denounce the violence but nothing will change.
American mid-term elections will give rise to a new round of "Peace Negotiations" that will achieve nothing

Ryan   September 28th, 2010 10:00 pm ET

Israeli sttlers (who, to complicate things, barely accept the authority of their own government) are building settlements on land, which under the proposed 2 state solution would undeniably be part of the new Palestinian nation.

Benjamin Netanyahu apparently doesn't see why this presents a problem for the Palestinian negotiators vis a vis negotiations about aforementioned 2 state solution.

Francesca   September 28th, 2010 10:42 pm ET

The hypocrisy of the USA and Europe in claiming that most of the actions of their foreign policy are aimed at fairness, democracy, peace and freedom is truly breathtaking.....
Until the west is willing to use military force against Israel, the illegal occupiers of the land of Palestine, in order to enforce UN resolutions (like they were all too eager to do with Iraq... remember?), there will be no solution. I'm not holding my breath....

Mary   September 28th, 2010 10:43 pm ET

The identity of Israel is defined by its conflict with the Arabs. Without a common enemy they would fight each other to extinction. Therefore Israel has no real intention of solving this problem.

Also the unconditional support provided by US does not help either. There is no incentive for peace.

Elly   September 28th, 2010 10:46 pm ET

Israel has been playing this game for over 60 years. Let us try and set the context.

As recently as 1948 Israel did not exist at all, and the land known as Israel was 100% Palestine and the predominant population were Palestinian Arab.

Then, after WW2 and the Holocaust, hundreds of thousands of Jews understandably fled Europe. Despite many Countries offering refuge, and many went to the USA and the UK, for some, the Zionists, they wished to go to what they considered to be their spiritual homeland.

The Balfour declaration of 1916, is often misinterpreted to mean the British gave the go ahead for modern Israel. This is not true. The declaration is as follows:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
The statement is clear, ‘nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." In fact much has been done that prejudices the non-Jewish communities of Palestine. That is why we have a problem! It would also be a wrong to assume that all Jews support Israel. They don’t. Try the internet. Many are concerned that Israel’s actions may prejudice opinion against Jews across the world.

The founders of Israel were terrorists. The State came about through terrorism and acts of brutal force using weapons supplied by US funding that the Palestinians did not have. The most well know incident was the massacre at Deir Yassin in April 1948. Over 100 Palestinian civilians were killed. This attack was perpetrated by the zionist terrorist organisations Irgun, and Lehi, and Hagganah played a part. This incident did what it was supposed to do, and struck so much terror into the Palestinian population, that most of them fled, (so far yet to return), mostly to the West Bank of Jordan. Most Israeli Prime Ministers up until the 1990’s were members of these Zionist terrorist organisations. The British Government labelled them as terrorists organisations. In fact the first modern act of terrorism was the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, carried out by Irgun, and organised by an Israeli Prime Minister, Menachem Begin.

David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister was clear that he wanted Israel to be a majority Jewish State. This is why contrary to the Balfour declaration, the Palestinians were effectively ethnically cleansed from the land. A sad situation given what the Nazi’s did to the Jews.

I could go on. In 1967 there was the 6 day war. Israel’s justification was that the Arab’s posed a threat. Israel wiped out the entire Egyptian Air Force on the ground. In just 6 days, Israel took control of Sovereign territory from 3 of its neighbours; Sinai from Egypt, The West Bank & Jerusalem from Jordan, and The Golan Heights from Syria. Some achievement when these 3 States had been a threat!

Israel has since made incursions into Lebanon, and of course currently is the siege of Gaza.

Israel has repeatedly used disproportionate force. The attack on Gaza in 2009 left about 1300 Palestinians dead, for about 13 Israeli’s, 9 of whom were killed by their own guns in friendly-fire incidents.

There are well in excess of 100 UN resolutions concerning Israel. This is a number unequalled by any other modern democracy. They include a ‘right to return’ for the Palestinians which has been ignored for over 60 years. It also includes a ban on building on Palestinian land in Jerusalem, something Israel does to this day.

The USA donates ~$7bn p/a to Israel. Nobody is Israel is poor or starving. This money isn’t needed for any normal humanitarian purpose.

There were elections in Gaza and they voted for Hamas. Israel doesn’t like Hamas because it is a terrorist organisation. So were Irgun, Lehi and Hagganah, and the USA happily dealt with them.

I have made a small attempt to explain that there is a lot more to this issue than we ever see in the news. I think there is an assumption that everyone knows. Bob didn’t, and I doubt he is alone!

If the USA was really serious about Peace, why doesn’t it start by with-holding some or all of the $7bn annual donation, until at least some of the long list of UN Resolutions are complied with?

Do I think these Peace talks are genuine? No. Israel just continues to play for time, and is so militarily powerful, it can eliminate any threat at the push of a button. The USA is the glove puppet to The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), which has so much money, power and influence, that no American President or Politician has the nerve to stand up to it in any meaningful way.

There is almost no chance of peace.

Wilson   September 28th, 2010 10:46 pm ET

The Israeli Information Centre for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories

Samantha   September 28th, 2010 10:48 pm ET




University Rector   September 28th, 2010 10:50 pm ET

now is the time for the UN/Coalition to teach Israeli Zionists how to be democratic and just the same as they did with Iraq. Iraq behaved in a very similar was to the way Israel is now behaving . So the following actions are need against Israel as they were against Saddam Hussein:-

1. Create world led sanctions against Israel.

2. If sanctions don’t work, a UN/Coalition invade and take over Gaza and the West Bank to restore freedom. Just as they did after Kuwait was invaded by Saddam Hussein

3. if Israel continues to occupy Arab lands in Israel and illegally hold WMD just as Saddam Hussein is supposed to have done then Invade Israel to restore order and fairness for the Palestinians adIsraelis . At the same time remove WMD’s which are illegally held and produced by this fast developing Rogue State

It is not in Israel’s interest to resist a settlement they can play around with the UN and Western governments, to continue to murder and steal what they want through armed force.
The UN must act now, forget appeasement and give the Palestinians justice. Peasce settlements just aint goin to work.
A purpose of the UN is to prevent further world wars and give protect small countries from invasion so prevent them and allow small countries to be safe.

m.gibson   September 28th, 2010 10:52 pm ET

The peace talks are a hopeless, time-buying methodology for creating facts on the ground. It is the Palestinians who never had a "partner in peace".
Netanyahu must be absolutely sure of American backing that he dare ask Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas to continue seeking a "historic" deal. Historic for what – being the man who completely sold out the possibility for a Palestinian State?
Bulldozers, settlements – these are the "answers" of the Israelis. The The Palestinian People never had a "partner in peace".
Mr Abbas had already warned that peace talks would be a "waste of time" unless the freeze was extended; so, Mr. Abbas get on with your Arab consultations. There is no one to talk to in either Israel or the United States.

Peter   September 28th, 2010 10:52 pm ET

Unless I'm mistaken, Isreal's Jewish population isn't increasing, so why build 'settlements'? Looks like nothing less than a good, old-fashioned land grab to me.

Sharon   September 28th, 2010 10:56 pm ET

The Arab League produced a Peace Plan in 2002, which was re-confirmed in 2006, to provide for a solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Based on UN resolutions it would provide for a two-state solution, based on the 1967 borders and with East Jerusalem as the Palestinian States's capital. It provided for recognition of Israel and a normalisation of relations between Israel and it's Middle Eastern neighbours, together with international guarantees on security.
Even Hamas admitted there was a basis for negotiations.

ISRAEL rejected it out of hand, as a 'threat to Israel's existence', needless to say AIPAC rubberstamped Israels position.

Brother   September 28th, 2010 11:03 pm ET

If Israel continues to break international law by building these settlements then the world should place an embargo on the export of construction materials to Israel, just as Israel does to Gaza.

Shrek   September 28th, 2010 11:06 pm ET

The talks are a complete farce. Their sole object would appear to be to create the impression that the Palestinians are rejecting peace, so that Israel can continue its expansion towards the greater Israel that God promised them. Come on, if the Israeli government (and the US) were really serious about these talks then there would be a total stop of all settlement expansion of any kind until the talks were over. And at the end of the day a lasting peace settlement will only be reached when all parties (including those labelled "terrorists" by one side) are included in the negotiations.

Shrek   September 28th, 2010 11:07 pm ET

Israel has no intention of giving up the West Bank. The peace talks were still born. There are a waste of time unless the world gets tough on Israel to exit the occupied Palestinian lands.

Tommy   September 28th, 2010 11:11 pm ET

Zionists have said (incorrectly) the Palestinians waged war and lost, so they have no right to land in Palestine?

Sorry but if that is the case why do Zionists think its OK to reclaim land they lost 2000 years ago?

Reagan   September 28th, 2010 11:18 pm ET

Well it is quite simple! The 'international community' should tell the Israelis, that for every building they build illegally on Palestinian land, the Palestinians have a legal right to throw one rocket at Israel without retaliation! Problem solved?

Linda J   September 29th, 2010 1:56 am ET

Deal with the words of the founder of Israel, David Ben Gurion:

“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”

David Ben-Gurion quotes (Polish born Israeli Statesman and Prime Minister (1948-53, 1955-63). Chief architect of the state of Israel and revered as Father of the Nation, 1886-1973)


“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti – Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”

David Ben-Gurion quotes (Polish born Israeli Statesman and Prime Minister (1948-53, 1955-63). Chief architect of the state of Israel and revered as Father of the Nation, 1886-1973)

Hamas may have some words written on a paper some time ago, but the words from Ben Gurion were actually acted upon. Israel has stolen the land from the people of Palestine. The least they can do if they don't want to share it, is give part of it back (the 1967 borders and the other conditions Meshaal outlines).

miriam   September 29th, 2010 11:40 am ET

Why should anyone believe that Gilad Shalit is being treated well?
Hamas hasn't allowed him even the basic rights of a prisoner or a POW captured in a terrorist attack on Israeli territory.

Meanwhile Palestinian prisoners, including murderers, terrorists and petty criminals are allowed visits from their families, the Red Cross, receive newspapers, TVs and radios in Arabic and the chance to study for academic degrees. Is Gilad Shalit going to be released one day with a doctorate? I doubt it.

It is clear from the Hamas Charter what the organization considers their "principles and religious doctrines".

Much of this interview contradicts what is written in the Charter and the rhetoric spoken to the Arab audience.
Using legal language might be convincing to an uneducated public however the claims of illegal actions by Israel is misleading and innaccurate, based on biased opinions and distortions of international law. International bodies such as the UN and its subsidiaries are politically motivated and their resolutions concerning Israel are not binding and certainly not international law.

Ariely   September 29th, 2010 2:20 pm ET

Lets discuses a solution not accepted by Hamas.

It doesn't comply to Hamas charter demanding: Destroy Israel, Kill the Jews, Christians and Jews are not under Islam wings!

OK- Forget about Hamas promoting the 7 century ideology and culture.
The 21 century cultures, pls think and consider the following:

Face worldwide reality, learn the lesson and implement it.
Every group of people prefers to be governed by their own.
Artificial boarders or imposed boarders are major reasons to conflicts.
Open your eyes and brain to the world wide reality!
Arabs governed by Arabs- Jews governed by Israel

Canada-French want their state: Belgian Flames want separations. Basques in Spain.
Czechoslovakia partition in 2 states
Irish and Scotts want independence from UK .
Tibet and China.
The many wars in Africa because tribes have been separated or united by Europeans in artificial state.
Kashmir- Cyprus- Kurds in Turkey and Iraq.
The Balkan wars.
The former USSR dissolving into many states and current wars in Russia.

Avoid future similar conflicts while defining boarders between the Jewish Israel and the Arab Palestine.
Arabs governed by Arabs.
Jews governed by Israel.
Israel will hand over t land inhabited by Arabs from Israel to Arab government.
Jews from settlements will be governed by Israel
Both Arabs and Jew will remain in their current homes – nobody will have to move physically

Becket   September 29th, 2010 6:17 pm ET

United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 is quite clear that the Palestinian territories are occupied territories and therefore illegal.
Security Council Resolutions are legally binding if they are made under Chapter VII.
Israel has no authority to make International Law it’s not really very complicated.

Becket   September 29th, 2010 6:30 pm ET

Israeli settlements are illegal under every basic reading of international law:
Article 46 of the Hague Convention prohibits confiscation of private property in occupied territory. Article 55 of the same Hague Convention stipulates “the occupying state shall be regarded only as administrator and usufructuary of public buildings, real estate, forests, and agricultural estates belonging to the hostile State, and situated in the occupied country. It must safeguard the capital of these properties, and administer them in accordance with the rules of usufruct”.
Article 49, paragraph 6 of the Fourth Geneva Convention explicitly stipulates that “the occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies”.
UN Security Council Resolution 465 (1980-unanimously adopted) made it clear that “Israel’s policy and practices of settling parts of its population and new immigrants” in the Occupied Territories constitutes “a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East”. The Security Council called upon Israel to “dismantle the existing settlements and in particular to cease, on an urgent ba-sis, the establishment, construction or planning of settlements in the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem”.
The 2004 ruling of the International Court of Justice in The Hague declared that “Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, are illegal and an obstacle to peace and to economic and social development”.

Francesca   October 1st, 2010 10:46 am ET


The trouble with Zionists is they always twist other peoples words and inject as much hate as possible.

Your version of the Hamas charter simply demonstrates your vile hatred and your ignorance towards Israels neighbors. Again this demonstrates how Zionists are the real problem.

Why don't you burn a Qur'an? Thats a more fitting way for you to express your willingness to accept differences between peoples. Or you could just have some more flotilla aid workers killed or continue to bomb Palestinian families with phospherus bombs.

Ariely, whatever wild claim you want to make is fine with me, but please dont claim to be a man. That would be one falsehood too far!

miriam   October 2nd, 2010 6:39 pm ET


Except that under international law, Israel does not "occupy" the West Bank.

There are three preconditions for deeming an area occupied, in the sense of being subject to the rules of international law, under Articles 42 and 43 of the Hague Regulations
1) the area is under the control of the hostile army
2) the area was previously the sovereign territory of another state
3) the occupier holds the area with the purpose of returning it to the prior sovereign.

Since a prior legitimate sovereign was lacking, ie Jordan was not recognized as a legitimate sovereign ruler and large portions of the area are under PA control, Israel's control of the West Bank does not fall within the definition of "occupation'"

The fact that Israel has acted in accordance with customary international law and humanitarian provisions of the Geneva Conventions relevent to the laws of occupation, has led some to believe, mistakenly, that Israel is an occupier.

The commonly used rhetoric refering to Israeli occupation is political abuse of the term and an attempt to demonize and delegitimize the Jewish state. It is unfortunate that it has become such an acceptable claim when in reality it has no legal basis.

The UN is not a law-maker. UNGA resolutions are NON-binding as are UNSC Chapter VI resolutions under which all those relevent to Israel have been passed.

UNSC Res.242 of 1967 was passed under Chapter VI and therefore NON-binding.
It was accepted by Israel and rejected by the Arab League.

Abdul   October 3rd, 2010 11:12 am ET

The Palestinians, although a relatively new state, have had a patriarchal consensus which dates back to the 12th century, long before the British decided to give in to American pressure and give the Israelis a state of their own.

Irregardless of Israeli Jews origin, the fact remains that they have taken land of a country which wasn't theirs, and they are exerting their power in a abusive fashion. America has always supported this abuse.

International law will become binding against Israel as soon as America stops supporting Zionist state terrorism via vetoes in the UN Security Council. The UN has become a diplomatic dictatorship of the five permanent members of the security council. Until the UN is reformed, then America and the UN five state dictatorship will continue to be complicit with Israels crimes against humanity.

miriam   October 3rd, 2010 11:51 am ET


Try reading the Hamas Charter and then it would be interesting to see if you can make the same accusations.

It appears that you have no problem believing falsehoods no matter how far fetched they are.

miriam   October 5th, 2010 7:48 am ET


Any UN reformation should take the power away from the anti-democratic states that dominate the UNGA and which dominate most other UN associated bodies.

Fortunately, UN resolutions are not international law with UNGA resolutions and UNSC Chapter VI resolutions concerning Israel, whether passed or not, being non-binding.

I've replied to your other comments elsewhere.

Making baseless anti-Israel comments based on mis- and disinformation is dishonest

Ariely   October 6th, 2010 3:06 pm ET

Feedback to Francesca comment:

Lying to infidels is an Arab cult.

The west people are not aware about the double language cult: " TAQIYYA""

Taqiyya was formed by the Arab tribalism. It has been used by Muslims since the 7th century to confuse, divide the enemy. It is widely used by Islamic spokesman.

Good yesterday example are the words of NY bomber in the court.

For additional info read:

Read Hamas charter:
The following are cut and past not "my version".

Keep using Taqiyya – the Principle of lying to infidels .

*Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions – Islam, Christianity and Judaism – to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam

*"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it

*"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

*"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews

proud zionist   October 10th, 2010 9:51 pm ET

selling land to a Jew is punishable by death in the west bank, gaza, saudi arabia, jordan, syria, etc etc

these are your kind, democratic, non-discriminating arab countries

the west bank according to the pals, and all you terror loving sympathizers, must be JUDENREIN

thsi shows exactly who you are, bigots, racists and nazi followers

proud zionist   October 12th, 2010 7:09 pm ET

Mashal needs to ne hung, then shot and finally put in front of a TV to be bored to death by CNN

John A   October 14th, 2010 8:53 am ET

There goes proud Zionists expressing his lust for murder again. Proud Zionist will Israelis evolve out of their dark age mentality any time soon?

miriam   October 14th, 2010 4:45 pm ET

John A,

Perhaps he's just repeating language used by Meshaal and his sponsors.

It's the only vocabulary they understand.

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