July 21, 1999
Web posted at: 3:20 p.m. EDT

The following is an edited transcript of a chat, about JFK Jr.'s plane crash with aviation expert Edmund Pinto, Managing Director of GKMG Consulting Services, one of the largest aviation consulting firms in the country, Pinto is the former editor and publisher of Aviation Daily and was assistant administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration. The chat was held on July 20, 1999.

Chat Moderator: Welcome Edmund Pinto!

Edmund Pinto: Thank you.

Chat Moderator: Do you think that Kennedy was qualified to fly that plane on that night?

Edmund Pinto: I can't say for sure whether he was or wasn't. I know that he was low time, that is did not have a lot of hours, but that doesn't make him unqualified. We need to talk to his flight instructor to get a good answer to that question.

Chat Participant <mtntop>: Edmund, wouldn't the plane be detected on a radar screen until the point of impact?

Edmund Pinto: Yes and no. In fact it was, but the FAA had to do some special work to identify it. That's because he was not flying under instrument flight rules. IFR as it is called, means you are under control of air traffic controllers and they give you a special radio code number, called a transponder, that identifies you. He did not have that. He was flying Visual Flight Rules, or VFR. Still, they found his radar trace and that's why we know the airplane crashed violently.

Chat Participant <JimBob>: Given the experience that JFK, Jr. had in flying would you say he made a good choice or a bad choice?

Edmund Pinto: I'm a general aviation pilot. I have more hours than John, but I would not call myself a very "high time" pilot. I would not have made that flight at night over water. However, that does not mean he crashed because of his inexperience. I am not ready to concede that the only cause of that crash was him. There could have been a number of other reasons why the plane fell out of the sky so violently.

Chat Participant <JimBob>: Do you think in view of this accident that all pilots should be instrument qualified before being granted a pilot license?

Edmund Pinto: No, that's not really necessary. What is necessary is that pilots know their limitations. It's called personal judgement. There are plenty of circumstances where pilots can fly safely without instruments. There's one other thing. The air traffic control system would be overwhelmed if hundreds of thousands of general aviation pilots suddenly began using IFR flights. IFR training. Some IFR training is always good, but not required.

Chat Participant <dialyn>: Edmund Pinto, a flight plan wasn't necessary for this flight, correct. Could this have been a costly mistake for this flight?

Edmund Pinto: You are correct. A flight plan was not required. However, even if he had filed one and the accident had occurred as we believe it did, I think it still would have been too late to save them. A flight plan tells air traffic where you are. That would make it easier to find you in a crash. But they apparently crashed so violently that chances of survival would have been slim anyway.

Chat Participant <genie2>: Mr. Pinto, Isn't there another safer route along the Connecticut coast line where you have better visuals?

Edmund Pinto: I'm not familiar with the routes in that location. I haven't really studied them, never having flown in that area. However, perhaps he could have flown completely over land and then turned from the coast of Massachusetts to the Vineyard. Maybe that would have put him over water for far less time. I don't know.

Chat Participant <disciple>: Was the airport using ILS approach procedures when the plane went missing?

Edmund Pinto: Sorry, once again I am not sure about that. I do know that the tower was closed at 10 p.m. and there would have been no tower personnel to give clearances for ILS approaches under IFR. He probably was just announcing himself to local traffic, that is other airplanes in the air and just following VFR procedures to land. Perfectly safe when done properly.

Chat Participant <Female42>: Mr. Pinto, would the impact of JFK's plane be much like the impact of Swissair, with the same results?

Edmund Pinto: Last year around this time I witnessed the crash of a small biplane off the beach at Ocean City, MD. That airplane got itself into a spin and came down, nose first, completely out of control. The sound of it hitting the water about 1/4 mile or 1/2 mile off the crowded beach was astonishing to those of us on the beach. I don't know about Swissair, but I can tell you from seeing that accident, in my opinion there was no way to survive the violent crash.

Chat Participant <pickles>: What could cause the plane to descend at ten times the normal rate of descent? Even, if there was a complete loss of power, would it have had some gliding effect?

Edmund Pinto: I am conjecturing that there was no loss of power, that for some reason the airplane nosed into a dive and power was not pulled, causing it to speed up. One of the first things GA pilots are trained to do when getting into a situation like that is to reduce power and pull it completely off. That doesn't seem to have happened here. I think it went down under power.

Chat Participant <Pame5Ashe>: Mr Pinto, would you please explain "Black Hole" syndrome and how this affects this situation?

Edmund Pinto: By black hole I think you are referring to the lost of visual sight of the horizon. In that case, the eyes give the brain no clue as to which is up or which is down. If the airplane should turn slightly or nose down slightly, the body's inner ear compensates to make the pilot believe he is flying straight and level. If for some reason the pilot makes another correction, at that point he can make a bad situation even worse. That is what some people are saying happened to John Kennedy.

Chat Participant <pepA>: Did they realize what was happening?

Edmund Pinto: Well, first let me say, I'm not ready to concede he crashed because of disorientation from the "black hole" syndrome. I think that there are a number of other potential reasons that have to be ruled out. However, if he got disoriented, the short answer is that no, he might not have realized it until the plane was too far gone out of control to allow a correction. That's why this is so dangerous to low-time pilots.

Chat Participant <Haley>: Mr. Pinto.....considering the G's the plane must have taken...what are the possibilities the plane broke up in air?

Edmund Pinto: I'm not an engineer and I haven't read anything yet about the force of the Gs on the airplane. Still the possibility is there that some portions of the airplane could have broken up...because at 4,500 feet a minute descent it far exceeded its design specifications for safety.

Chat Participant <Well>: Do you think that the US coast guard can recover the victims?

Edmund Pinto: I can only refer back to the crash in Ocean City that I mentioned earlier. In that case the airplane's fuselage remained intact and the authorities were able to recover all of the bodies about two days later. If they find the aircraft intact, they can dive deep enough to recover it in those waters. By the way, it will be the Navy, not the Coast Guard.

Chat Participant <Wopatang>: When you were with the FAA, what did you do and what was your title? Who do you work for now and what do you do for them ?

Edmund Pinto: I was at the FAA from 1982-1985. I was assistant administrator for Public Affairs. I learned to fly when I had that job, feeling that in order to do it I should learn how to do it. I work for GKMG Consulting Services now. I'm a managing director, a fancy name for vice president. We are probably the largest aviation consulting firm in the country.

Chat Participant <jack>: What time frame are we looking for the divers to locate the fuselage and how long before removal?

Edmund Pinto: I think that's difficult to say. As I understand it, the authorities are now saying that yesterday was a day to get all equipment in place and that they are hoping to step up efforts beginning today. Unlike large airliners, this airplane, or what remains of it, a relatively small piece of metal on what is apparently a rocky sea bottom. We have great equipment and great people operating it, but this could be a tricky search.

Chat Participant <dialyn>: Do you think this incident will somehow change the way pilots train for flights like this one, over water, low visibility, etc. In other words can we learn something from a tragedy like this one to prrevent others from happening?

Edmund Pinto: However this turns out, whether it is shown to be his fault or there is some other cause, the publicity surrounding the weather and the decision making processes already is having an impact on the way pilots train- not just pilots but also their flight instructors. I don't know this because I've talked to them. I know this from my history and experience. Whenever there was an accident we talked about it in our flight school. The instructors raised the issues it involved, and we learned from it and became more cautious. I think that is happening now.

Chat Participant <Cathy>: Do you think the government will increase regulations on small planes or private planes?

Edmund Pinto: I hope not. Aviation already is highly regulated. There are rules and precautions and procedures in place to protect people. In the end, however, situations like this will come down to personal judgement and decision making -- that is if he is found to have been at fault -- and no regulations can effectively deal with that.

Chat Moderator: Thank you Edmund Pinto for joining us today to discuss the crash of JFK Jr.'s plane.

Edmund Pinto: Ladies and gentlemen, this was enjoyable. I hope I have helped you understand the issues a little better.