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Male Shooter Apparently Radicalized; Worldwide Reaction to California Mass Shooting; Shootings Prompt Calls to Expand Gun Control. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired December 3, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Paul, it looks like the evidence is increasingly growing that the individual in this particular case, Syed Rezwan Farook, may have actually been in contact with international terror suspects. What do we know?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: They're going to be looking at that. They'll look at his travel to Saudi Arabia, to Pakistan, whether he had connections to groups like ISIS, groups like al Qaeda. I think there very well could be mixed motives here. We've seen that in the past. Here in the United States, last September, September 2014, there was a beheading in Oklahoma by a guy who had become radicalized. But also he had been fired from his job. And also in France, just in June, there was an extremist who beheaded his boss in a trucking company and sent a selfie to ISIS in Syria. He had problems with his boss as well. We've seen these blended motivations before.

BLITZER: It could have been a combination, Tom Fuentes, of anger at his employers, for example, the County Health Department in San Bernardino County. But at the same time, there could have been a political jihadi motive as well.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It could be, Wolf. In a lot of these cases, you could have somebody that gradually became more and more angry. Maybe he got insults about his back ground or his wife's background. Maybe there was something else gradually building up, a set of grievances in his mind, as opposed to having been fired or having, you know, a serious altercation at work. So that part we'll still, you know, have to be determined.

BLITZER: What's your analysis, Lorenzo?

LORENZO VIDINO, DIRECTOR, PROGRAM ON EXTREMISM, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: It seems the more likely scenario, a mixed hybrid motivation, potentially some trigger event. Obviously, there was some preplanning there, because they had the gear, the pipe bomb, but some other motivation there. I think we're going to find out more. The connections to known terrorists, that's definitely the most interesting part. The trips to Saudi or Pakistan can be explained in benign ways but the connections to known terrorists, that's the most interesting part.

BLITZER: The wife, Tashfeen Malik, 27 years old, she was from Pakistan. That can easily explain a visit to Pakistan, to visit her family.

The fact, Tom, they were not on the FBI or law enforcement's radar apparently at all, neither one of them, what does that say to you?

FUENTES: Well, it says they haven't gone far enough to actually trip the trip wires, if you will, that would put them on that. There's over one million people on that watch list now. Depending on the phone calls and e-mail traffic and all of that, if you went by every time somebody called somebody else that was on the list, we'd have 20 million people on that watch list instead of one. It's difficult to read their mind. The link charts will show you who called who or who knew who, but it doesn't tell you what's inside their brain what they're thinking.

BLITZER: Anthony, you're an expert on explosives. Investigators there examining what appears to be a home bomb lab found in that Redlands, California, residence. Police say they had a pipe bomb. Tell us what they're looking for now. Because it looks like a pretty unsophisticated but a rather large arsenal they were developing there for explosive devices.

ANTHONY MAY, RETIRED ATF EXPLOSIVES ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: That's right, Wolf. The device that was found at the center where the shooting was really a rudimentary-type device. At the House, it's been not real clear as to what they have found as far as explosives, other than there are additional parts, components, other explosive devices, which indicates a major process here of preplanning, supplies coming in and out of the House. There's -- I'm not going to be surprised if there are a lot more people involved in this, that there are other co-conspirators. I mean, quite frankly, they took one device with them. Why did they just take one? Why weren't their other devices found in the car? Why were they throwing fake devices out the car window? I would suspect within the next 72 hours with the stuff being flown back to Washington, being forensically examined, compared to other devices seen for signature purposes, we're going to have some answers.

BLITZER: How many damage, Tom, could these explosive devices cause? Assuming the 12 at the home, the one at the regional center, how much damage could they actually have done?

FUENTES: Well, it would depend on how much gun powder and shrapnel was embedded within those pipes. The lab analysis will show us or tell us about that. But I would think easily a dozen people if they went off whoever was in proximity, it would be leak a hand grenade in the military going off. So probably a dozen people. If you had simultaneous explosions, it could bring the building down, depending on the total amount of explosives.

[11:35:45] BLITZER: Lorenzo, we talked earlier about the article in "Inspire" magazine, the AQAP magazine, al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula, how to build a bomb in the kitchen of your mom, that article has been circulated online and a lot of people have read it.

VIDINO: We are seeing more and more plots, seeing the people behind the building of these explosive with no prior knowledge, they just got it from the Internet. Think about the Boston Marathon bombers, same dynamic. It doesn't take that much. You might not have huge explosive devices but they can still kill people as we saw in Boston.

BLITZER: Guys, we have a lot more coming in. We'll continue to follow the breaking news.

Still ahead, as the mass shooting investigation in southern California widens, we'll examine some of the worldwide reaction to this tragedy that's occurred right here in the United States.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:39:54] UNIDENTIFIED BBC ANCHOR: Just another day in the United States of America, another day of gunfire, panic and fear.

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BLITZER: A BBC report on the San Bernardino shootings here in the United States is just one example of how the U.S. is being portrayed in international news around the world. Another, former deputy prime minister in Australia says his country needs to warn travelers about gun violence in the U.S.

Fareed Zakaria is the host of CNN's "Fareed Zakaria, GPS," and he is here with me in Washington right now.

A story like this, Fareed, horrible mass murder, if you will, in San Bernardino, what kind of message does that send around the world, because you do a lot of traveling out there. It reinforces this impression of what?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA, GPS: Look, some of this -- in this particular case, there is a terrorism angle that you've been exploring. But in general, these stories of gun violence really do startle, alarm, the rest of the world, in a way that's difficult to completely explain. It's more than anything else. The rest of the world looks at this as the one element of America that they find truly baffling. Because, you know, there are other elements. We're more religious than other industrialized countries. But that, they understand, they used to be more religious themselves. There are other countries that are more religious. With gun violence, the United States is essentially alone in the world. There is no other country that has anything remotely approaching the kind of violence we do. The only country that comes even close is Yemen, which is essentially a war zone. So they look at this and they really can't understand it. They don't understand how we put up with it.

BLITZER: As you point out, the shooter, who's now dead, together with his wife, Tashfeen Malik, they apparently were radicalized, if you will. We don't know exactly how. They apparently had some international contacts, if you will, with suspected terror sources out there. That may diminish this notion that people are just running wild here in the United States with guns or whatever. ZAKARIA: You're exactly right. This one may be an unusual case, but

as you point out, it may be mixed motives, as has been the case in the past. I think Paul mentioned that as well. In each of these cases, there are different motives. There are others that are mental health. What they all have in common is the extraordinary ease with which people can obtain these extraordinarily destructive weapons, weapons that you can fire hundreds of rounds, thousands of rounds of ammunition. That sets America apart. So people may have said, you know, well, look at France, despite having tough gun control laws, it wasn't able to avoid a terrorism attack. No, there was one terrorism attack that happened in Paris, but the levels of violence in Paris on any given month, or any given day, any given year, one-twentieth that of the United States.

BLITZER: These were terrorist attacks, whether in Paris, a couple, three weeks ago, or "Charlie Hebdo" magazine, a terrorist attack as well.

ZAKARIA: You put it all together, and European countries have, roughly speaking, one-twentieth to one-twenty-fifth the amount of violence.

BLITZER: In this particular case though, it appears these individuals may have been radicalized, home grown, if you will, whatever they were. Maybe they were radicalized online. This is the great fear the FBI Director James Comey has spoken about, other law enforcement officials in the U.S. speak about. And it's a real problem out there right now, the social media impact on these individuals.

ZAKARIA: It's the big problem because, in a sense, with the other stuff, there are things to track. There are things to look at. There are patterns. There's money that has to move across borders. There are ideas, messages, things like that. What if you get self- radicalized in your basement, you know, listening to something, watching something, and you don't talk about it to anyone, which appears to be the case with this guy. You know, the FBI can't read your mind. A foreign intelligence agency can't read your mind. What are they supposed to do? You know, let's keep in mind these attacks can never, therefore, be as spectacular, as destructive as 9/11. In order to that, you do need to be able to coordinate with other people and move money. But these lone wolfs who can inflict tragic damage, you know, perhaps a dozen people, perhaps 15, 25, that's the danger because, to stop it, you really have to know how to read people's minds.

[13:44:41] BLITZER: 14 people dead. 21 people injured. That's a lot of casualties. A lot of deaths here in the United States.

Fareed, thanks very much for joining us.

By the way, Fareed will have a lot more on his program, "Fareed Zakaria GPS," Sunday morning. Among his guests, President Obama's top national security adviser, Dr. Susan Rice, also Bono. Sunday morning, 10:00 a.m. eastern, only here on CNN.

After the break, we'll talk live with the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee -- there you see him -- Adam Schiff, on what he's learning about these shootings, much more on gun control. A lot more coming up.

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[11:40:46] BLITZER: The shootings in California are once again prompting calls for expanding gun control legislation here in the United States. The latest violent incident qualifies as the 355th mass shooting this year, according to the Mass Shooting Tracker. That's a crowd sourced website from Guns Are Cool, Sub Redditt. It defines a mass shooting as one incident in which four or more people, including the gunman, are killed by gunfire. That's a broader definition than the FBI used for its official statistics.

Joining us is California Congressman Adam Schiff, a Democrat. He represents a district not far from San Bernardino. He's also a ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

Let's talk a little bit about the latest information you're getting. What did you learn about these two individuals involved in this mass murder in San Bernardino?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF, (D-CA), RANKING MEMBER, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I had a briefing by the FBI this morning and still getting a lot of information in. At this point, we're not able to rule anything out. It's possible there were connections to terror or a self-radicalization going on. It's also possible it was a workplace motivation or some combination of the two. We're looking at social media, any selectors we are able to take from either of the suspects, chasing down a number of leads, both foreign and domestic, to see what connection, if any, there might be to terror. But at this point, it's too early to tell what the motivation was.

BLITZER: We have been reporting that the male, Syed Rezwan Farook, was radicalized and had been in touch with more than international terrorism subject. What can you tell us a about that?

SCHIFF: Well, I can't go into the specifics of who he may be in contact with. As of a couple hours ago, I don't think we were in a position to conclude this was a self-radicalization or moved by some international actor. We're investigating that and get to the bottom of this. It's premature to reach those conclusions.

BLITZER: Police say they are examining what appears to have been a home bomb laboratory they were building at least a dozen improvised explosive devices inside the home. One was left at that regional center there where all those people were killed. That sounds like a much more sophisticated operation than some disgruntled employee.

SCHIFF: I think that's absolutely true. That much we do know. I think the police chief has already acknowledged this that there were perhaps as many as a dozen explosives in the home. This is not a situation where someone went to a holiday party at their office, got justify set, went home and got a gun. There was a lot of advanced preparation. You don't go home after an argument and put together a dozen pipe bombs. Clearly, advanced planning. It still may have had a work motivation. Something that was the last straw, but obviously, there's planning that had been in the works for some time.

BLITZER: We're learn also learning the two of them traveled not only to Saudi Arabia, but the FBI director out in San Bernardino just said they had also gone to Pakistan. Do you know anything about those trips?

SCHIFF: I can't go into details yet about what we know of their foreign travel, but I can assure you that's something we're looking into. Obviously, we want to know both here at home and anywhere abroad who are they in touch with, what contacts did they have, were they exposed to anyone who may have tried to radicalize them. These are certainly issues we want to get to the bottom of. But again, I don't think we should leap to conclusions because as of this moment I don't think we're in a position to say what the motivation was.

BLITZER: I want you to listen to what President Obama said earlier today on the availability of guns here in the United States. Listen to this.

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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do think that as the investigation moves forward, it's going to be important for all of us, including our legislatures, to see what we can do to make sure that when individuals decide they want to do somebody harm we'll make it a little harder for them to do it because, right now, it's just too easy.

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BLITZER: You're a veteran member of the House of Representatives. Do you believe that legislation will, in fact, be passed that will make it more difficult for people to get guns in the United States, people who shouldn't necessarily have guns?

[13:54:44] SCHIFF: Wolf, I don't know. I certainly hope so. I would have thought after Sandy Hook and seeing all those children massacred that the Congress would need nothing more to do its job. Even after that horrific tragedy we sat idle. Not a week or even a few days goes by between moments of silence on the House floor. We have a moment of silence on the House floor all the time now, Wolf, to recognize or think about or honor the victims of mass shootings. As you reported earlier, we have one just about every day. They don't all make it to the House floor in the form of that solemn remembrance. I'm tired of the moments of silence. I would like us to have moments of action on the House floor, take up things like universal background checks, prohibition on assault weapons and ammunition clips like dealing with this it intersection of mentally ill people. These are things we can do. And I'm sure people are going to point out if we had done some of those things, it may not have helped prevent San Bernardino, and maybe that's true, but it would prevent many of these attacks.

BLITZER: We know the weapons used in San Bernardino were purchased legally here in the United States.

Congressman Schiff, thank you for joining us.

SCHIFF: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: That's it for me.

The news will continue right after a quick break.

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[14:00:04] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. And you're watching CNN's special coverage of one of the country's deadliest massacres in our history.